Three Point Polar Alignment App for N.I.N.A.
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
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The Beta version of NINA ... 11.1 supports Plug-ins and among them is the free "Three Point Polar Alignment" app. This plug-in makes it easy to polar align your scope looking at any portion of the sky ... no need to focus on Polaris. Let me show you how and the results.
Here is the link to N.I.N.A. ... nighttime-imaging.eu/
Be sure to download the Beta Nighttime version 11.1
My weather and nature website: www.savannahpat.name
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Music used is from the UA-cam music library ... "Butterflies_In_Love"
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:30 Reasons for Polar Aligning
1:55 Using the Three Point Polar Alignment Plug-in
7:55 Preliminary Results
9:54 Pillars of Creation
11:08 Summary
11:36 Final Result with 10 minute subs - Наука та технологія
This was a FANTASTIC video . As always Pat you deliver the relevant concise content ! Well done.
Thank you very much
This transformed my workflow from doing drift align for hours to just a dozens of minutes as my backyard is conveniently blocked off Polaris access by my house on the north side. Kudos!
Thank you, Ben.
Even though my mount is polar aligned, I set my scope on the night's target and run the 3-Point Polar Alignment using the position of the target. Gets me even better tracking.
Excellent channel I've learned alot about setting up my EQMOD and now this! Thanks a ton!
You are very welcome, UDS
Great video as usual Pat
Thank you Simon
Great image and hugely helpful tutorial - thanks!
Thank you, Peter. I'm glad I was of some help.
Thanks Pat, this is a great feature and I may use it on a secondary rig off my deck where I can't see Polaris.
I am planning to try it on my 3rd rig on my balcony for my camera lens view or using the ED80 scope. No testing the next few nights due to clouds and rain. I just watched you Automated roof control via NINA ... Way Cool
Very nice video. I failed big time at my first polar alignment 2 nights ago--it's raining now for the next few days but I cannot wait to give this a whirl.
Pat, a trick I've learned using the polar routine is to crank up your gain to maybe 200-250 and shorten your exposure down to 1sec. You'll get almost real-time updates on your movements.
Just remember to reset your gain back to 139 before you start imaging.
Great tip Greg. I will do that the next time out.
Useful video Pat! Your Cocoon image looked fine with good round stars👍
You gave me an idea for my target tonight here in the Uk, the Cocoon nebula is quite high, so with a clear sky🤞 should get it with my Esprit 120👍
Hi Simon ... What ... You mean you actually have a clear sky??? All joking aside, the "Cocoon" is a good target and you should be able to work on it all night long. It's embedded within an area rich with stars ... many stars.
I just got my mount out of winter mothballs and am so looking forward to trying the NINA polar alignment method. I think it'll be the best astrophotography tool since sliced bread.
I agree ... NINA is a great asset to us amateur backyard astronomers. To use it to polar align, I find it best to get a rough polar alignment first then use the 3 point polar alignment in NINA.
Thanks Pat...My Polemaster has been acting up lately since I have moved my telescope to a permanent pier. Going to polar align tonight in these Georgia skies using your great video. Thanks!
Let me know how it worked. (It should)
Hello, I commented on your other 3-point polar alignment video. Just want to say once again, thank you so much for putting this up as I am about to lose my view of Polaris. 🙂 Clear skies!
Hi Nocturne Astro,
I am glad this works for you. I am finding that once I plate solve my target, I do a quick NINA 3-Point Polar Alignment and if it is off by more than a minute, I go through the alignment, which only takes a few minutes. Then my tracking and guiding is much smoother.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy thanks! This may help my atrocious guiding numbers too (but still perfectly round stars). As I have been manually polar aligning all this time. Appreciate your time for making this video!
I like that. It will be extremely useful for folks with Polaris blocked.
Thank you, Garnett. Yep, that is one of the reasons I made the video.
A very good video.
Thank you "mrkutube".
Love the video. It's just what I need. I use NINA and Sharpcap to PA but I just moved and I have pretty good viewing from both sides of my house but I can not see Polaris from the south side so I was thinking, cant I do a PA with some kind of platesolving? I mean, it knows where it is. It's nice that NINA updates as you are adjusting. If this works as well as it looks like it works, I might be done with Sharpcap.
Hi Jody,
I have a location that I like to setup my rig, but I too can not see Polaris from there. So, what I do is roughly align the scope using a compass or my knowledge of north. Then I slew the scope to an open portion of the sky and do a 3-point polar alignment in NINA. Be sure to slect the "Start from Current Position" is set to YES. That should give you a pretty good alignment. Keep in mind, you need to be in a roughly decent PA to start with ... within a couple of degrees.
I still use SharpCap for planetary capture.
Great video. I feel I keep being pushed to try N.I.N.A out as looking better and better. Use APT currently. Question - Would Binning 4x4 speed up the process as you could take shorter exposures for solving?
Thank you, Z3,
I suppose it would, but not much. Even at 1x1 binning it is very fast.
Great video! I have an asi120mm guide camera in the mini guide scope and was wondering if I could use this to do the polar alignment routine in NINA? I only use a DSLR and WO zenithstar for my imaging. Would I be better off to try and use the DSLR for this routine or the guide cam?
Hi Charlie,
Well, you can try using the guide scope but you will need to set it as your main camera in NINA as it needs to plate solve to compute the data for aligning. I see no reason as to why you can't use your DSLR as NINA accepts most DSLR cameras.
Very educational video Pat. So you no longer use CPWI to polar align?
I use QHY pole master to polar align the mount then use NINA's 3 point polar alignment to fine tune the rough mount alignment.
Nice tutorial, thanx. I'll give a try.
Should the tracking mode be ON, while using the 3 point aligning?? Or disabled?
I think NINA sets the tracking mode. In my opinion, it should be on
Thank you for concise and informative video! That was great! I have a question though:
Is it possible to use this method with a mount not connected to the computer? My problem is that I can't afford such a mount yet and I am only able to see to southern sky from my balcony.
Greetings from the city of Copernicus: Toruń, Poland!
Yes, the mount must be connected to the computer in order for NINA to 'plate solve' the 3 different positions.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy Thank you, buying such mount is one more reason to work then ;)
Hi, thanks for the video! One question, should I use the guide scope + guide camera or the main scope + imaging camera for the three point polar alignment? Thanks!
Hi Esteban,
The 3 point polar alignment is best done using your primary scope.
Thank you for watching my video(s)
Hi Pat NIce video as always, Just a quick question how did you manage to get the 3 point icon into the main imaging screen, I can only use the plugin in by dragging it into the the sequencer...? I am using the beta 11.1 and nightly version 136 .
Thank you, Peter. Yes, that can be a bit confusing and as a matter of fact, I am going to make a brief video as to how to load the plug-ins and how to navigate the 'Image' screen. Briefly, I open the plug-in by click the tiny icon in the far upper right (not to be confused with the older 'Polar Alignment' tool that is in the middle of the 'Tools' selections tab). In my case the ''Three Point Polar Alignment' plug-in is the last icon in the tool selection tab. By clicking on that, it opens it. I then grab it and slide it into the 'Image' tab at the bottom.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy Great Pat Looking forward to that Thanks Pete
I was wondering if you use the polemaster for your alignment and then try the 3 point polar alignment, how much error if any do you see?
Hi Badger,
I have done that and YES, I did find a difference. I aligned using the QHY Pole master then did a 3-point polar alignment using NINA and there was a small difference of about 1 to 2 minutes of arc. Also, once the scope is PA, I now do a 3 point PA with NINA with the scoped centered on my target of interest. This seems to give me better tracking.
What do you do if the scope ends up pointing at trees or the roof of your neighbor's house during that 3 point polar alignment process?
Hi Ha El,
The program will try to find another portion of the sky or you can tell it to to slew the opposite way. It defaults to slewing east but you can tell it to slew west. Also, it defaults by going to the north celestrial pole. You can tell it to not do that but instead to start the alignment on your target that you have your scope pointing to.
Thought my mount was PA in NINA (< 1 degree fro both), but when I slew to coordinates, the camera is way off; I did get a warning it didn't slew far enough or something, to somehow change slew rate? but that warning went away when I next PA; what could be wrong? Used an L bracket for the camera, but that shouldn't be a problem
Hi Deeber,
Hmmm, Do you have the correct focal length assigned in the 'Options' 'Equipment' 'Telescope' tab in NINA? Was the mount 'settled' when it took its reference frame .... that is, were the stars streaked?. Also, was the camera in relatively good focus? I wouldn't think the slew rate is the problem.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy All those issues I think were not fine.. I can't remember the exact warning message, but i Think it was slew rate; can't find where to change that. I did re-do 3 star PA and did not get the error again; did I not get another error message because I fixed it, or because it is still an issue but doesn't give a second warning? Not sure on star streaking during PA; it is a very noisy image so it's hard to make out the stars too well. NINA tells u where the mount is pointing, right?
I have a Nikon DSLR, tracker, and manual mount. I can also only see 60 degrees left and right of south, and only over 30 degrees from the horizon to overhead. Is NINA still do-able?
I am not sure what you mean by manual mount. Are you able to use a hand controller to move it? Is it a "goto" mount? If so, then yes, NINA should work.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy My mount is not electronic, so no hand or computer control. Only my DSLR camera would be wired to the computer. All movements would be manual. How should I choose the second and third shots for plate solving? Some arbitrary point some degrees from the first shot?
One question: are you aligning with your main scope or finder?
The alignment is through the main scope
I heard on a few videos that the Nina app is still a little off compared to Sharpcap and Polemaster. But I've never done it as of yet. My new camera is stuck in China and the Polemaster is on the way.
I use the QHY polemaster to initialize the polar alignment. Then I slew to my target and use N.I.N.A. the polar align on that target. I usually get much better tracking that way. Why? I don't know, but it improves my tracking. Usually from about 0.9 arc seconds RMS tracking error to 0.7" or less. I am making a video right now showing that among the main topic of narrowband photography of the Rosette nebula. Hopefully it will be posted by Thursday, Dec 29. Wait until you see these new images of the Rosette!
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy I’ll be sure to look at it. For many years I’ve just used the astrophysics style polar scope and used the guider to keep on track. My G11 Gemini 2 has an Ovision precision worm. I’m curious how things work out
When I try to 3-point PA with my EQ mount, the azimuth error is near 0, but altitude says 90 degrees off, even tho my wedge is set to 40 degrees (my latitude). Location is set properly in Synscan and NINA. No 1 can figure an answer. You have any ideas?
What is your mount? If it is an equatorial mount, I don't see why you would need a wedge. If you have an Altazimuth (sometimes called alt-az) mount, then yes you would need the wedge. Also, I assume you have the rig pointing toward the north. Also, have you tried any other type of polar aligning?
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy I have the Sky Watcher mount in EQ mode. The wedge is facing north, up 40 degrees, my Lat. Th camera is thus pointing to the south. Is that correct?
@@deeber35 ... can you send me a picture? patprokop49@gmail.com
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy Figured it out. Mount orientation and wedge were off. I blame others. ;) I had to set the wedge at 90-latitude, not latitude.Thanks much.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy Any thought on tracking with the AZ-GTi and a 400mm on a crop sensor without autoguiding? It works with a 300mm lens.
Don't you still need to star align prior to this so the mount knows where it is
No. Not with NINA. All you need to do is a rough manual alignment ... that is, just point the scope near the celestial pole, the closer the better. After that, choose a target and let NINA Plate solve the location and it will then sync the telescope.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy so I tested this out tonight. I used sharpcap and did my usual polar align. Once that was completed I slewed to the elephant nebula. Started Nina and did the three star polar alignment. It told me that I was off by more than 2mins. Shouldn't doesn't make sense. Which to believe
@@mikeh9180 ... Hi Mike,
Hmmm... good question.
A couple of questions for you: Did you realign the scope in that position with NINA?
If so, did you take a long exposure test shot to see if there was any star trailing? Also, is your mount perfect level? This would be interesting to know. Thank you for your input.
@@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy after I aligned with sharpcap I took 2 minute exposures and had little or no trailing which is the norm. My mount is as level as I can get it but there is much debate that this really doesn't matter as the guider will correct. I'll test it out again tonight and let you know. Perhaps you can test this out as well to verify the results
@@mikeh9180 Sounds like a good plan. Keep me posted