The prosecution keeps going full speed ahead in circles on this trial, but we'll talk about what happened and where things seem to maybe be moving along?
I think I figured out the prosecutions trial strategy. "Your honor, we interviewed all of canton and they all said it wasn't them, it must be Ms read cause reasons" It fits with the way they seem to have collected and secured evidence via the honor system
You are spot on in regards to the gal not speaking up about "seeing a blob"!! She was way too blase about it on the stand and after to not say anything at all to anyone is just not believable!! I'm sincerely sorry for the loss of friend and moderator. Love your channel and content.
i can't even remember what i did last week, how is anyone suppose to believe she remembers what she saw in a car 2 years ago at night while drunk especially when she's never brought it up in any way until now. seems awfully convenient
I don't know if there is an active "cover up" in this case and some have suggested that carrying it out doesn't seem plausible. Allow me to tell you a story of a "cone of silence" that persisted for decades. I heard this from an author telling a story about his mother when she was a nursing student in Alberta, CA in the late 40's to early 50's. She assisted in a birth for woman who'd had several late trimester miscarriages. The woman was admitted due to bleeding and taken to surgery. She delivered a one pound boy and the doctor told the nurses, "it's not viable - dispose of it'. The nursing student is handed this baby and she sees that he's breathing and can't bring herself to do as the doctor said. She puts him in a kidney tray, covers him with a cloth and set's him on top of a warming unit. She thinks, the doctor says he won't survive, I'll do as instructed, but I can't put a living baby in the incinerator. They finish surgery and clean up the room and she waits and waits and realizes, this baby is still alive and I should tell somebody. By this time, the parents have been told 'we are very sorry but the baby didn't make it'. When the nursing student does tell her supervisor, she's told she's in big trouble. The doctor is furious and instructs them to tell no one anything. She's told she must care for the infant in the nursery, and they all expect the child to die. He doesn't, and the hospital realizes they have to tell the parents, which they do. They tell them, 'we didn't expect him to live, but due to the wonders of modern medicine, he's alive - but his prognosis isn't good he may have lasting issues due to his low birth weight, etc.' The parents are overjoyed and thankful their child lived and at first don't question anything, but they do wonder what happened - but no one is talking. Years pass and when he turns 5 the parents invite hospital staff to his birthday party and the nurse went to the party and is happy he's fine - a litter smaller than other kids but good. Years pass and the nurse say's nothing about what happened. She's still afraid of consequences for not following the doctor's orders. It isn't until the doctor passed away and the boy's father died that she told her family about what happened and then reached out to the boy and his mother about what happened. I realize this is long story - but I share it in an effort to illustrate that there are times when a "cone of silence" can be accomplished and kept in place for decades. This one has a happy ending. If you made it this far, thanks!
Of course there are conspiracies. Of course people keep secrets. Yo believe otherwise is absurd. I’m so bored of Americans and their limited thinking. I guarantee you everyone you know is keeping a confidence - some more important than others. I personally have been told secrets that I currently am keeping. I’ve kept them for decades. I’m honoring the people who asked me not to tell. They aren’t criminals. But there are criminals asking many people to stay quiet. These include the McCabes, proctors and Alberts. Of course they can keep quiet. Their freedom depends on it.
The phone is lying defense is so old. The phone called but it was a butt dial… the phone tracked me but it’s lying.. the phones are out to get everyone
@@saratucker1519There’s nothing in evidence to say the calls were answered. They were just 7 and 9 second calls. I’m waiting for an expert to testify if there’s any more detail because those could be voicemail pickups, and the caller hung up after voicemail connected.
Caitlin and Alison were obviously lying and so while Alison had her moment, they still did more damage to their own side. We’re nearly 3 weeks in and no evidence has been presented that remotely incriminates Karen Read.
1:25:17 her friend with her was A NURSE. who could have initiated CPR immediately. If she saw the blob and said NOTHING to her friend she'd be freaking the hell out later like WHY didn't I say anything WHY didn't I look back a second time omg WHY did I just assume my eyes were playing tricks (because like, I would think that! It's not logical to jump to "dead body on the front lawn" as a first assumption in pretty much any situation) But however forgivable not realizing what she was looking at until it was too late might be, had she seen something, she'd be distraught.
I watched her body language. She grabbed her cross when she knew the defense was going to ask about the " object " that morphed into a " blob". Blink rate was crazy, foot tapping, faster breathing, kept looking at her cross etc
Canton is super "townie" and fire dept and police dept are the biggest clicks of all. Karen was an outsider and they would never break in to the click of the wives .
Question ... If all but 1 person ( and that's suspect) says they never saw anything on the lawn between 12.10 and 1.45am . And Karen read was suppose to have reversed into john around 12.30 am . Aren't they all proving Karen's case . That she didn't mow her bf down ????? . I'm confused so many witnesses. 12 days of trail . and I'm no nearer to understanding why she was arrested.
Timestamps will be added as I watch (replay crew 😊) 00:00:00 Intro Day 11: 00:06:00 Cross examination of Caitlin Albert continues 43:46 Cross examination of Tristan Morris 01:00:50 Redirect of Tristan Morris 01:06:10 Testimony by Sarah Levinson 01:11:15 Testimony by Julie Nagel - what did she REALLY see? 01:29:00 The frightening reality of how memory works (also, Runkletarian lore 🥷🏻) 2:07:49 Superchats, and on to day 12! 02:23:40 Redirect of Julie Nagel 02:25:20 Direct examination of Teri Kun, animal DNA expert 02:50:30 Cross examination of Teri Kun 03:09:20 Testimony by Ryan Nagel 03:26:45 Testimony by Heather Maxon 03:31:10 Testimony by Richard D'Antuono 03:39:30 Testimony by Allie McCabe 04:22:10 Direct questioning of Colin Albert 04:41:50 Summary and superchats
Yes it does. If they are innocent then why all the lies, evasions etc. Let's see what they did. Re home their memories, only memory in favor if the Alberts Re home their conscience , not an ounce if remorse, regret, empathy, sympathy etc for John. Re home the dog, so the defense can't get DNA or hair Re home the house, after spending thousands $$ to fix the basement, then sell it for $50k less what it's worth. Re home their phones, so no forensics.
If KR is convicted, this judge is going to quickly learn how little her little community means in the totatlity of MA when it goes before a superior court.
I can NOT stand the prosecution objecting over EVERYTHING. I also can’t stand this Judge sustaining everything. It drives me bonkers to watch this trial… it’s a S**T show…
I have known women like the Albert girl and I can assure you she leans in to being called “high maintenance”. She thinks it is a charming personality trait.
It feels like there’s still sooo much ground to cover in this case. Most of the key players haven’t testified, experts haven’t testified. It stresses me out 😂 and that’s just in the commonwealths case. This trial is gonna take FOREVER!!!
I think the prosecution is dragging this out hoping the Feds will arrest proctor and his cohorts so he doesn't have to deal with all the effed up evidence
The prosecution has 87 people listed on their witness list. In most cases, not all of these people are called. In Lally's case, I'm expecting all of them.
12 days in and…we just established that Karen Read _was_ there. My goodness, I can’t imagine how exhausted the jury is. He’s lucky if they don’t check out until the defense case.
@@Rae777 If I was on the jury, I’d be pissed at the amount of time wasted on every single detail with ever single witness just to get basically nowhere with no answers.
I felt bad for the veterinary DNA analyst. She clearly knew nothing about this case beyond what she needed to do her job, and so was very confused by the defense's questions. A lot of her answers were like... But our lab follows good procedures and is generally competent and does all the things we're supposed to do? I don't know what else you want from me. Also, you literally could not write the thing about pig DNA in a work of fiction. It's too perfect.
Also, my current theory is that aliens abducted O'Keefe out of the car and used their memory flashy thing to make Karen forget. They deposited him back on the lawn dead hours later, and all the injuries are from the aliens' experiments.
Nah the expert was super evasive with her answers on cross. She clearly knew where the defense was trying to go and was just playing dumb to try to save the prosecutions case. She couldn't even give a straight reply to being asked "if the evidence had been handled sloppily before it ever got to you, then that could affect the validity of your results...couldn't it?" There is nothing cryptic or confusing about that question, and everybody knows what the honest answer to it is. But she refused to give that answer and just reverted to spouting off about how amazing her process is in her lab. There are veterinary DNA labs right in MA, and the premier veterinary DNA lab is in washington DC. There is a reason they shipped those swabs all the way to california to this specific lab to get tested.
I actually kind of think her evasiveness helped a bit too though. Her almost incredulity about proper procedures "Why wouldn't we do that?" Even if she was weaseling her way around the answers of hypotheticals it worked out alright AND showed the jury the proper chain of custody with niological evidence.
Nah she was deliberately evasive. Eg: the "all of our gear is sterile and autoclaved" is suuuuper bullshit. Outside of it not actually answering the question, there is no chance in the entire operation of the lab they've never had to get a new sterile container because some whoopsie may have contaminated it and they will not have left contamination out of thier SOPs she mentioned.
For the Life360 data, I have seen my GPS location "wander" when I'm not moving. It was far worse on older phones compared to new ones, but I've seen it happen this year. It tends to be obvious as it's happening, especially since it hard-snaps back suddenly so it looks like you teleported potentially 100's of KMs, but if you don't have the full data I suspect it can look suspicious as hell. Worst one I can recall happening to me was when I was working in downtown Ottawa 7 years ago, I opened my phone and it said I was about 4 blocks west of where I was, I then watched it wander through buildings for another bunch of blocks, then I was near Kingston, then in Toronto, then I visited Null Island, and suddenly it was dead on my correct location, all in 10ish minutes. I probably missed a few stops on my "trip" because I was working while I let it wander.
With julie neagle (?), ok so the fact that on the night, she might have thought her eyes were deceiving her, but its the next day. She put 2 and 2 together and said nothing?!? That's cold but also hugely suss
Ian - have you ever seen a judge like this? The questions defense ask seem to be objected to all the time!! I know I’m not an attorney so I may not completely understand, but the question seem fine!! Defense seems to always lose their objection!!
I keep saying I'm waiting for a day where the judges rulings don't make her look bias against the defense but there has yet to be a single day where her bias doesn't show. I keep seeing things about her being tied to the Albert's somehow and that she should have never been allowed to hear the case. I haven't looked into that claim, but I still tend to agree that she should not be the judge on this case, she seems way to bias. Thank God for such a horrible shoddy investigation otherwise Karen Read wouldn't stand a chance at being found not guilty. I am doing what EDB is doing which is only watching the trial and not doing outside research. In my opinion which is based solely on what has been presented in trial thus far(day 13 before court starts) I don't think Karen Read killed officer John O'Keefe. It's sickening to me that the defense and public seem to have more respect for him and his memory than his "brothers in blue", first responder family, or friends. Nothing about this makes sense. The Common Wealth has yet to show a clear picture of their theory of the case. I hope and pray the jury doesn't have people connected to the Albert's or McCabes on it. The CW has delivered nothing. So far the defense has proven what they said they would in their opening statements.
I know it’s not my opinion that you’re asking for but I’m not seeing what everyone else is seeing about this judge. I know about the background and was very prepared for her to be super biased, but she’s about as biased toward the prosecution as every other judge in cases I’ve watched. Judges seem to be harsher on defense generally, I think because they know they can appeal, while the prosecution can’t due to double jeopardy. I don’t always agree or understand her decisions, but they don’t seem like decisions I couldn’t see Judge Newman or Judge A making.
Omg the state’s case is so boring. Is this ALL they have, a bunch of drunk people with conflicting testimonies and odd, defensive demeanors? And were the investigators drunk too?
If they were actually trying to get a conviction I think the prosecution made a tactical error. By first showing how bad police botched collecting and storing the evidence, If I were a juror I would completely ignore her testimony because it makes no difference. The evidence is already tainted her testimony means nothing.
Even if you ignore the sloppy evidence collection you already know happened with just about every piece of evidence in the case her testimony is still entirely useless. They sent two swabs that even if you take them at their word are from random spots on the shirt. The fact that they found no canine DNA on those two swabs couldn't be more meaningless.
Life 360 i use,, its super accurate for me, when my son passes through the circle even if he doesnt come in it picks it up,, i can click on him and drive to him immediately like a pin drop
It’s been accurate for us also. It’s never created a trip. Some of the times have been off I. E. How long they were at a certain location but never in the same time frame. I’ve just noticed this “glitch” this year up until then it’s been accurate. We’ve used it for 10+ years.
One of the factors that can affect gps accuracy, though, is weather. A snowstorm could throw off location data from any app on your phone. Life360 themselves list weather as a confounding factor. Which is also something to keep in mind when we’re looking at Karen Read’s GPS data.
He should pivot to asking the judge to admonish the witnesses to answer yes or no. It's fairly standard when witnesses attempt to offer narrative answers that qualify everything they're saying or answer questions that were never asked. The judge will tell the witness something like "You're to answer yes or no and refrain from offering anything you were not asked about. If the prosecution feels you need to expand on your answers or add context they are free to get into that with you on redirect."
I agree with the cross point. I wear my granny’s cross everyday. I go to church every Sunday, teach children’s Sunday school every other Sunday, and am part of daughters of the king (a religious order), so you could run across a witness like me.
This is like watching the movie Clue with Tim Curry. The humor bits are definitely the police doing such an awful job it’s comical at this point. I feel awful for John’s family that they did everything but an investigation properly.
Here's the problem with saying that he could have died by walking home or falling down and hitting his head. John O'Keefe never texts Karen Reed after he gets out of the car and goes inside the house. Karen text John many times to no avail. John would've answered his messages but he couldn't. He was dead.
Yeah. Not many have showed genuine emotion for him outside his family at the start. The harassment is awful, people are dickheads... but that doesn't have much to do with who really killed the victim and whether or not it was Karen.
Dear Runkle, the manufacturing memory part you mentioned is Bartlett's theory of reconstructive memory, and development of this was what led to cognitive interview techniques by police.
On the life360 stuff, Times are off in the millisecond range Size of radius of bubble is more important, for things like schools they can be up to half a mile radius (depends on the location) So it is unlikely that the time is wrong, but it is easy to be on a different street or block and be identified as at ghe location if you are heading to the location
I always feel that it's sensible to honor the threat. But I do like the idea that you have the ability to "have a chat" with anyone who shows up unexpectedly.
This trial is potentially a great tool for people with misophonia to listen to. We could use it to practise distress tolerance to hopefully cure thyself of the affliction. I've kept up (ffwded through Lally's snoozefest though) and look - no murders or broken furniture yet! (anyone thinking of trying this: I suggest having booze on hand.. drink responsibly xx).
Because life 360 was mentioned. Me and my family use it not because my parents are controlling but because I wanna go know where my parents are and howling it might take for them to get home. Or for them to see if I am still in the city or on my way back. It can definitely be used in a creepy way but doesn't have to be.
Oh for fucks sake, did her dog step on a bee too? She sat there STONE COLD saying "correct correct correct" until it was time to turn on the waterworks.
We love you Runkle, please take care. I don't like seeing all these unhinged people trying to interfere with your great legal coverage. Also I don't know if that db going on about attorney vs lawyer thing, "Unlike Australia, the United States does not draw a distinction between barristers and solicitors, meaning that any lawyer in the United States can be considered an attorney." I'm Australian, so I was just thinking maybe that person was doubling down cause they couldn't process the concept of checking out the international differences in systems.
I actually had to do an "interview" (read factually interrogation) to get my PAL a few years back. I wanted to have a lawyer present but couldn't find anyone that would do it for me. It was a tough call for me to talk to the police without one present. ALWAYS have a lawyer if you're going to talk to the police or prosecution/crown.
@Runkle Of The Bailey Ian, if someone came to my house, smashed my tail light, picked up 45 pieces of my tail light leaving others in my driveway which I didn't know about; placed those 45 pieces of my tail light around the dead body of my significant other and told me that I ran over and killed my significant other, I would be quite baffled, and in a waking stupor could possibly be convinced initially that this was plausible. This ´whole case stinks. There is something else going on. I am leaning towards O'Keefe not wanting to be on the take, and cracking down on drug activities. The other hypothesis I have read and watched is that there was competing attention/affection for Reed. I tend to doubt this one, although others have stated that the rough housing "fooling around" at the Waterfall was "peacocking" for the attention of Reed. IDK, but something smells rotten in Denmark to me, which is just a few hours south of me here in Sweden. IMO Reed is being raked over the coals and there is a massive coverup going on, and I am really eager and curious to eventually learn the backstory. -Mr EntryReqrd
Julie Nagel says she saw a “black blob” exactly where JO’K’s body, but NO one else saw anything? Why didn’t she say anything? Why didn’t she say, “Oh, hey! I saw something when we left the Alberts house…” But she doesn’t.
The Alberts probably realize that the boyfriend is too simple to lie effectively. It makes me think that she could have called him saying "come get me now" without going into all the gory details about exactly why. So now his story at trial is different from hers because nobody ever filled him in on the family's story. The high maintenance comment does seem honest coming from him. but it doesn't explain (for me) why their stories are different.
1:50:28 I didn't watch all of the first responder witnesses: have they established that the sirens were on arriving at the house? In my area, SOP is to cut the siren when you turn off the main road into a residential area. I've had cops, ambulance, fire truck parked right in front of my house at various times and didn't notice until someone happened to look out the window.
That judge is... well, to a certain moment I was just thinking that we're just seeing her idiosyncrasies, but, uh, I can no longer treat her as an objective party in this whole thing. Wtf.
Replay crew with Life 360 free version - the adults and teen on both sides of my family have it. I rarely look at it, but it comes in handy when people are late so we can see whereabout they may be, or when traveling is happening. Kind of a loose way to see what's up without pestering each other.
Dear Ian, Squirrel warned you she was going and slipped away peacefully in her own time as my husband did. I could not bind him to life any longer but at least I got to say goodbye in person
I'm sticking to this: If you are going to lie keep it simple and COMMON SENSE. And a collective lie? Puh, that's never gonna hold, ever. This bunch didn't think this would blow up in their faces. A crazy stupid all over.
I could totally see Robs bachelor party being at that one place in Vegas (I think it’s Vegas?) where you get to drive around in like tanks using the large pew pews… I’m pretty sure the only reason I know about it is from Vanderpump Rules several seasons ago, so EDB will probably remember what I’m talking about. It looked like a cool place and I’m not usually too into that kinda thing
Disagree on witness responses to the attorney’s question about friend vs acquaintance. If the attorney isn’t painting a correct picture, then you have to respond honestly.
We had a rule at my parents house that when we came home late at night we had to tell my partents we were home just so mum could sleep easy... But usually we would just try to get our act together pop our head in and said "I'm home" hoping they would not smell the alcohol 😅 def. Not going in hugging them..
Just started the replay. If they call every person in town to testify about the snow, I don't think I can make it. I can taste the gun oil in my mouth just thinking about another fifty people talking about the weather.
I'm pretty sure after the defense does cross on Matt then Jen McCabe is the only person left before the prosecution gets to it's expert witnesses and they actually start trying to prove their case.
Anyone who has made a determination of guilty at this point in the trial, should never ever serve on a jury. Need to see evidence presented from both sides.
I laughed when someone said you were a "turtle rider" because they don't like your opinion on a particular matter. Runkle is Runkle, that's what you get, his opinion. (That's why I love his channel)
Something I just realized: who the heck gets a ride home at 1(ish) am to go home, and talks about making PB&J sandwiches IN THE CAR? I strongly suspect there was a case of the munchies happening.
That conversation never happened. It's just something they thought would lend credibility to their testimony because they all claim to remember the same silly detail.
@@Rowgue51 multiple things can be true. For example, they can all be telling lies about not seeing O'Keefe, but the bread story is true and I'm right that a bunch of them were stoned.
Re: the witness crying - any attention might feel like harassment if it's unexpected. It might also explain why some people are protecting others so hard?
I'm catching up with your coverage but watching live with EDB. We're at the point where Matt McCabe is on the stand. He said he saw a jeep at the same time as Karens SUV and when the friends brother came to pick her up in the truck. Having now rewatched the boyfriends testimony, he said he was in a jeep. I think Caitlin Albert left a lot earlier than they are saying.
The prosecutor objecting to all the questions about events and photos would make me immediately start considering the thing defense is suggesting as a fact that prosecution knows about and wants to keep hidden. Is the prosecutor _really_ that bad at this?
This whole trial has forgotten Officer O’Keefe
Accurate
You mean the black blob
@@windybeach2184 could they possibly be more disrespectful towards Officer O’Keefes family and friends
@@windybeach2184you mean “the guy”
It feels like the prosecution is spending its time defending the Albert’s as opposed to presenting a case against Karen Read.
So much so, that some viewers wonder, if there's no attorney-client privilege between proscuter Lally and the Alberts.
We heart Runkle. PROTECT THIS HUMAN-GEM!
Stay safe, Runkle! We love you!
I think I figured out the prosecutions trial strategy. "Your honor, we interviewed all of canton and they all said it wasn't them, it must be Ms read cause reasons" It fits with the way they seem to have collected and secured evidence via the honor system
@seangettler1917 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂!!!!
Runkle “a couple of neurons in his head, one walked away for punch”🤣🤣🤣🤣
All the distancing and selective amnesia paired with obliviousness to technology in this case is so weird to me....
My heart broke for you Ian, when you spoke about the night of Secret Mc'Squirrels passing😢💔
You are spot on in regards to the gal not speaking up about "seeing a blob"!! She was way too blase about it on the stand and after to not say anything at all to anyone is just not believable!!
I'm sincerely sorry for the loss of friend and moderator. Love your channel and content.
i can't even remember what i did last week, how is anyone suppose to believe she remembers what she saw in a car 2 years ago at night while drunk especially when she's never brought it up in any way until now. seems awfully convenient
She literally told the whole car. They can collaborate her
.
Yeah, if I had seen a blob the night before (and remembered it) that turned out to be a dying man now dead, I would be beside myself with guilt.
I don't know if there is an active "cover up" in this case and some have suggested that carrying it out doesn't seem plausible. Allow me to tell you a story of a "cone of silence" that persisted for decades. I heard this from an author telling a story about his mother when she was a nursing student in Alberta, CA in the late 40's to early 50's. She assisted in a birth for woman who'd had several late trimester miscarriages. The woman was admitted due to bleeding and taken to surgery. She delivered a one pound boy and the doctor told the nurses, "it's not viable - dispose of it'.
The nursing student is handed this baby and she sees that he's breathing and can't bring herself to do as the doctor said. She puts him in a kidney tray, covers him with a cloth and set's him on top of a warming unit. She thinks, the doctor says he won't survive, I'll do as instructed, but I can't put a living baby in the incinerator. They finish surgery and clean up the room and she waits and waits and realizes, this baby is still alive and I should tell somebody. By this time, the parents have been told 'we are very sorry but the baby didn't make it'.
When the nursing student does tell her supervisor, she's told she's in big trouble. The doctor is furious and instructs them to tell no one anything. She's told she must care for the infant in the nursery, and they all expect the child to die. He doesn't, and the hospital realizes they have to tell the parents, which they do. They tell them, 'we didn't expect him to live, but due to the wonders of modern medicine, he's alive - but his prognosis isn't good he may have lasting issues due to his low birth weight, etc.'
The parents are overjoyed and thankful their child lived and at first don't question anything, but they do wonder what happened - but no one is talking. Years pass and when he turns 5 the parents invite hospital staff to his birthday party and the nurse went to the party and is happy he's fine - a litter smaller than other kids but good.
Years pass and the nurse say's nothing about what happened. She's still afraid of consequences for not following the doctor's orders. It isn't until the doctor passed away and the boy's father died that she told her family about what happened and then reached out to the boy and his mother about what happened.
I realize this is long story - but I share it in an effort to illustrate that there are times when a "cone of silence" can be accomplished and kept in place for decades. This one has a happy ending. If you made it this far, thanks!
Of course there are conspiracies. Of course people keep secrets. Yo believe otherwise is absurd. I’m so bored of Americans and their limited thinking. I guarantee you everyone you know is keeping a confidence - some more important than others. I personally have been told secrets that I currently am keeping. I’ve kept them for decades. I’m honoring the people who asked me not to tell. They aren’t criminals.
But there are criminals asking many people to stay quiet. These include the McCabes, proctors and Alberts.
Of course they can keep quiet. Their freedom depends on it.
Great story.
The phone is lying defense is so old.
The phone called but it was a butt dial… the phone tracked me but it’s lying.. the phones are out to get everyone
Also the 2 calls from jenn McCabe that morning that were answered, but Nicole Albert said she did not answer them....
@@saratucker1519There’s nothing in evidence to say the calls were answered. They were just 7 and 9 second calls. I’m waiting for an expert to testify if there’s any more detail because those could be voicemail pickups, and the caller hung up after voicemail connected.
@@saratucker1519so ridiculous. The jury should laugh out loud.
Caitlin and Alison were obviously lying and so while Alison had her moment, they still did more damage to their own side. We’re nearly 3 weeks in and no evidence has been presented that remotely incriminates Karen Read.
1:25:17 her friend with her was A NURSE. who could have initiated CPR immediately. If she saw the blob and said NOTHING to her friend she'd be freaking the hell out later like WHY didn't I say anything WHY didn't I look back a second time omg WHY did I just assume my eyes were playing tricks (because like, I would think that! It's not logical to jump to "dead body on the front lawn" as a first assumption in pretty much any situation)
But however forgivable not realizing what she was looking at until it was too late might be, had she seen something, she'd be distraught.
I watched her body language. She grabbed her cross when she knew the defense was going to ask about the " object " that morphed into a " blob". Blink rate was crazy, foot tapping, faster breathing, kept looking at her cross etc
EVERYONE'S specific 12:10 time frams is so suspicious!
Canton is super "townie" and fire dept and police dept are the biggest clicks of all. Karen was an outsider and they would never break in to the click of the wives .
Question ... If all but 1 person ( and that's suspect) says they never saw anything on the lawn between 12.10 and 1.45am . And Karen read was suppose to have reversed into john around 12.30 am . Aren't they all proving Karen's case . That she didn't mow her bf down ????? . I'm confused so many witnesses. 12 days of trail . and I'm no nearer to understanding why she was arrested.
Yes. I think they all helped her case
The judge seems to be involving herself way too much !!!!
Timestamps will be added as I watch (replay crew 😊)
00:00:00 Intro
Day 11:
00:06:00 Cross examination of Caitlin Albert continues
43:46 Cross examination of Tristan Morris
01:00:50 Redirect of Tristan Morris
01:06:10 Testimony by Sarah Levinson
01:11:15 Testimony by Julie Nagel - what did she REALLY see?
01:29:00 The frightening reality of how memory works (also, Runkletarian lore 🥷🏻)
2:07:49 Superchats, and on to day 12!
02:23:40 Redirect of Julie Nagel
02:25:20 Direct examination of Teri Kun, animal DNA expert
02:50:30 Cross examination of Teri Kun
03:09:20 Testimony by Ryan Nagel
03:26:45 Testimony by Heather Maxon
03:31:10 Testimony by Richard D'Antuono
03:39:30 Testimony by Allie McCabe
04:22:10 Direct questioning of Colin Albert
04:41:50 Summary and superchats
We're watching at the same time! 😎
I really wish I could watch live, but that's the middle of the night, and then I was derailed, but back at watching now 😉
Thanks, always appriciated!
This case stinks to high heaven.
Yes it does. If they are innocent then why all the lies, evasions etc. Let's see what they did.
Re home their memories, only memory in favor if the Alberts
Re home their conscience , not an ounce if remorse, regret, empathy, sympathy etc for John.
Re home the dog, so the defense can't get DNA or hair
Re home the house, after spending thousands $$ to fix the basement, then sell it for $50k less what it's worth.
Re home their phones, so no forensics.
If KR is convicted, this judge is going to quickly learn how little her little community means in the totatlity of MA when it goes before a superior court.
I don't care about the witnesses. Where is the physical evidence? Why did he die? How did he die? Honestly, where is the autopsy?
I can NOT stand the prosecution objecting over EVERYTHING. I also can’t stand this Judge sustaining everything. It drives me bonkers to watch this trial… it’s a S**T show…
... my skin crawls every time lally objects too... Sound like he is doing something inappropriate under his desk 💦🤢😫🤮
I have known women like the Albert girl and I can assure you she leans in to being called “high maintenance”. She thinks it is a charming personality trait.
“I’m sorry, what?” That was beautiful and I could watch it on repeat for hours 😂
It feels like there’s still sooo much ground to cover in this case. Most of the key players haven’t testified, experts haven’t testified. It stresses me out 😂 and that’s just in the commonwealths case. This trial is gonna take FOREVER!!!
I think the prosecution is dragging this out hoping the Feds will arrest proctor and his cohorts so he doesn't have to deal with all the effed up evidence
The prosecution has 87 people listed on their witness list. In most cases, not all of these people are called. In Lally's case, I'm expecting all of them.
12 days in and…we just established that Karen Read _was_ there. My goodness, I can’t imagine how exhausted the jury is. He’s lucky if they don’t check out until the defense case.
@@paige2990 oh yeah, he’s calling ‘em all. The ‘what if any…’ shall continue 🙄😂
@@Rae777 If I was on the jury, I’d be pissed at the amount of time wasted on every single detail with ever single witness just to get basically nowhere with no answers.
I still am so confused about how the judge thinks any door was opened here...
Yea, that came out of nowhere 😮
Hugs to runkle. Extra nuts for the squirrels today. -x-
I felt bad for the veterinary DNA analyst. She clearly knew nothing about this case beyond what she needed to do her job, and so was very confused by the defense's questions.
A lot of her answers were like... But our lab follows good procedures and is generally competent and does all the things we're supposed to do? I don't know what else you want from me.
Also, you literally could not write the thing about pig DNA in a work of fiction. It's too perfect.
Also, my current theory is that aliens abducted O'Keefe out of the car and used their memory flashy thing to make Karen forget.
They deposited him back on the lawn dead hours later, and all the injuries are from the aliens' experiments.
Nah the expert was super evasive with her answers on cross. She clearly knew where the defense was trying to go and was just playing dumb to try to save the prosecutions case. She couldn't even give a straight reply to being asked "if the evidence had been handled sloppily before it ever got to you, then that could affect the validity of your results...couldn't it?" There is nothing cryptic or confusing about that question, and everybody knows what the honest answer to it is. But she refused to give that answer and just reverted to spouting off about how amazing her process is in her lab.
There are veterinary DNA labs right in MA, and the premier veterinary DNA lab is in washington DC. There is a reason they shipped those swabs all the way to california to this specific lab to get tested.
I actually kind of think her evasiveness helped a bit too though. Her almost incredulity about proper procedures "Why wouldn't we do that?" Even if she was weaseling her way around the answers of hypotheticals it worked out alright AND showed the jury the proper chain of custody with niological evidence.
Nah she was deliberately evasive. Eg: the "all of our gear is sterile and autoclaved" is suuuuper bullshit. Outside of it not actually answering the question, there is no chance in the entire operation of the lab they've never had to get a new sterile container because some whoopsie may have contaminated it and they will not have left contamination out of thier SOPs she mentioned.
RUNKLE!! Dear God, this is exactly why I'm here because someone needs to say it the way it needs to be said!
Note to the DNA lady: You did not 'receive' your degrees, you earned them!
For the Life360 data, I have seen my GPS location "wander" when I'm not moving. It was far worse on older phones compared to new ones, but I've seen it happen this year.
It tends to be obvious as it's happening, especially since it hard-snaps back suddenly so it looks like you teleported potentially 100's of KMs, but if you don't have the full data I suspect it can look suspicious as hell.
Worst one I can recall happening to me was when I was working in downtown Ottawa 7 years ago, I opened my phone and it said I was about 4 blocks west of where I was, I then watched it wander through buildings for another bunch of blocks, then I was near Kingston, then in Toronto, then I visited Null Island, and suddenly it was dead on my correct location, all in 10ish minutes. I probably missed a few stops on my "trip" because I was working while I let it wander.
With julie neagle (?), ok so the fact that on the night, she might have thought her eyes were deceiving her, but its the next day. She put 2 and 2 together and said nothing?!? That's cold but also hugely suss
Wow! I’m sorry someone is threatening you. Stay safe 🙏🏻
Who is being threatened?
Ian - have you ever seen a judge like this? The questions defense ask seem to be objected to all the time!! I know I’m not an attorney so I may not completely understand, but the question seem fine!!
Defense seems to always lose their objection!!
If we all see it, the jury must see it too. It will be a huge topic of discussion during deliberatiins. She's really something
I keep saying I'm waiting for a day where the judges rulings don't make her look bias against the defense but there has yet to be a single day where her bias doesn't show. I keep seeing things about her being tied to the Albert's somehow and that she should have never been allowed to hear the case. I haven't looked into that claim, but I still tend to agree that she should not be the judge on this case, she seems way to bias. Thank God for such a horrible shoddy investigation otherwise Karen Read wouldn't stand a chance at being found not guilty. I am doing what EDB is doing which is only watching the trial and not doing outside research. In my opinion which is based solely on what has been presented in trial thus far(day 13 before court starts) I don't think Karen Read killed officer John O'Keefe. It's sickening to me that the defense and public seem to have more respect for him and his memory than his "brothers in blue", first responder family, or friends. Nothing about this makes sense. The Common Wealth has yet to show a clear picture of their theory of the case. I hope and pray the jury doesn't have people connected to the Albert's or McCabes on it. The CW has delivered nothing. So far the defense has proven what they said they would in their opening statements.
I know it’s not my opinion that you’re asking for but I’m not seeing what everyone else is seeing about this judge. I know about the background and was very prepared for her to be super biased, but she’s about as biased toward the prosecution as every other judge in cases I’ve watched.
Judges seem to be harsher on defense generally, I think because they know they can appeal, while the prosecution can’t due to double jeopardy. I don’t always agree or understand her decisions, but they don’t seem like decisions I couldn’t see Judge Newman or Judge A making.
Lol
Is he signaling by all that face touching
I’m fairly certain most of them knew Karen. But no one will admit it.
It's likely.
Omg the state’s case is so boring. Is this ALL they have, a bunch of drunk people with conflicting testimonies and odd, defensive demeanors? And were the investigators drunk too?
If they were actually trying to get a conviction I think the prosecution made a tactical error. By first showing how bad police botched collecting and storing the evidence, If I were a juror I would completely ignore her testimony because it makes no difference. The evidence is already tainted her testimony means nothing.
Even if you ignore the sloppy evidence collection you already know happened with just about every piece of evidence in the case her testimony is still entirely useless. They sent two swabs that even if you take them at their word are from random spots on the shirt. The fact that they found no canine DNA on those two swabs couldn't be more meaningless.
Life 360 i use,, its super accurate for me, when my son passes through the circle even if he doesnt come in it picks it up,, i can click on him and drive to him immediately like a pin drop
It’s been accurate for us also. It’s never created a trip. Some of the times have been off I. E. How long they were at a certain location but never in the same time frame. I’ve just noticed this “glitch” this year up until then it’s been accurate. We’ve used it for 10+ years.
One of the factors that can affect gps accuracy, though, is weather. A snowstorm could throw off location data from any app on your phone. Life360 themselves list weather as a confounding factor.
Which is also something to keep in mind when we’re looking at Karen Read’s GPS data.
Since "of course" is now verboten, can he pivot to "you don't say"?
He should pivot to asking the judge to admonish the witnesses to answer yes or no. It's fairly standard when witnesses attempt to offer narrative answers that qualify everything they're saying or answer questions that were never asked. The judge will tell the witness something like "You're to answer yes or no and refrain from offering anything you were not asked about. If the prosecution feels you need to expand on your answers or add context they are free to get into that with you on redirect."
I think she's very much a product of her parents.
The reason for 'l can't remember or l don't recall' is they know that they can't be done for perjury for having a 'poor memory'! 😊😊
I agree with the cross point. I wear my granny’s cross everyday. I go to church every Sunday, teach children’s Sunday school every other Sunday, and am part of daughters of the king (a religious order), so you could run across a witness like me.
This is like watching the movie Clue with Tim Curry. The humor bits are definitely the police doing such an awful job it’s comical at this point. I feel awful for John’s family that they did everything but an investigation properly.
Here's the problem with saying that he could have died by walking home or falling down and hitting his head. John O'Keefe never texts Karen Reed after he gets out of the car and goes inside the house. Karen text John many times to no avail. John would've answered his messages but he couldn't. He was dead.
That, and if he fell down, where did the wounds on his arm come from?
@@ColFlusteredI found it yesterday. This guy seems to know what he is talking about.
m.ua-cam.com/video/Tdqz1L1o_RE/v-deo.html
@@ColFlusteredI had been thinking maybe the dog came around and pulled on his arm, but no dog DNA. Maybe a stray pig came by lol
I had a friend who tried to walk home drunk and ended up falling into a drain and being covered in snow. Died of hypothermia. It's not outrageous.
@@saratucker1519 Chloe the dog could have been chewing on pig ears and transferred the dna with her claws…
Crying for herself and Collin , which I understand. BIG BUT... no sympathies for the victim.
Yeah. Not many have showed genuine emotion for him outside his family at the start. The harassment is awful, people are dickheads... but that doesn't have much to do with who really killed the victim and whether or not it was Karen.
runkle i know you believe in rehabilitation but maybe those trolls deserve perma-bans instead of time outs 😂 thanks for your great coverage!
Not runkle over here like “come at me bro!!”
Dear Runkle, the manufacturing memory part you mentioned is Bartlett's theory of reconstructive memory, and development of this was what led to cognitive interview techniques by police.
On the life360 stuff,
Times are off in the millisecond range
Size of radius of bubble is more important, for things like schools they can be up to half a mile radius (depends on the location)
So it is unlikely that the time is wrong, but it is easy to be on a different street or block and be identified as at ghe location if you are heading to the location
Anyone else get Manson Family vibes from most of the witnesses? Cold as Ice!
My husband and I share our locations with each other… we call it our turtle tracker. We also track our parents so we can check in on them.
Ian, please take care of you and your family.
I always feel that it's sensible to honor the threat. But I do like the idea that you have the ability to "have a chat" with anyone who shows up unexpectedly.
This trial is potentially a great tool for people with misophonia to listen to. We could use it to practise distress tolerance to hopefully cure thyself of the affliction. I've kept up (ffwded through Lally's snoozefest though) and look - no murders or broken furniture yet! (anyone thinking of trying this: I suggest having booze on hand.. drink responsibly xx).
For me it's the mics and nose breathing and chair squeaking. But I have fallen asleep twice during Lally's questioning.
I keep forgetting that Karen even exists
Yes it seems that she's a spectator just like the rest of us at this point.
John was beat to hell!
Independent journalism is not harassment lmao
Because life 360 was mentioned. Me and my family use it not because my parents are controlling but because I wanna go know where my parents are and howling it might take for them to get home. Or for them to see if I am still in the city or on my way back. It can definitely be used in a creepy way but doesn't have to be.
whats the point of introducing a dna witness before even establishing their theory of what happened to the man?
Judge told us, her schedule didn't allow for the appropriate position in the witness queue
"Aren't sharp things illegal in Canada?" "Only wits."
I can't watch this case anymore. The mere sound of lolly's voice is like a turtle scraping it's shell across the chalk board.
I try to delay watching it so I can fast forward through his parts 🫠
Oh for fucks sake, did her dog step on a bee too? She sat there STONE COLD saying "correct correct correct" until it was time to turn on the waterworks.
The forensic expert really started to infuriate me with her answers, why is it so hard to agree to these simple questions? *aaarg*
We love you Runkle, please take care. I don't like seeing all these unhinged people trying to interfere with your great legal coverage.
Also I don't know if that db going on about attorney vs lawyer thing, "Unlike Australia, the United States does not draw a distinction between barristers and solicitors, meaning that any lawyer in the United States can be considered an attorney."
I'm Australian, so I was just thinking maybe that person was doubling down cause they couldn't process the concept of checking out the international differences in systems.
I actually had to do an "interview" (read factually interrogation) to get my PAL a few years back. I wanted to have a lawyer present but couldn't find anyone that would do it for me. It was a tough call for me to talk to the police without one present. ALWAYS have a lawyer if you're going to talk to the police or prosecution/crown.
Raising yet another glass for Secret Mc'Squirrel. I work hospice care, surviver's guilt can eat you up if you let it.
@Runkle Of The Bailey Ian, if someone came to my house, smashed my tail light, picked up 45 pieces of my tail light leaving others in my driveway which I didn't know about; placed those 45 pieces of my tail light around the dead body of my significant other and told me that I ran over and killed my significant other, I would be quite baffled, and in a waking stupor could possibly be convinced initially that this was plausible.
This ´whole case stinks. There is something else going on.
I am leaning towards O'Keefe not wanting to be on the take, and cracking down on drug activities. The other hypothesis I have read and watched is that there was competing attention/affection for Reed. I tend to doubt this one, although others have stated that the rough housing "fooling around" at the Waterfall was "peacocking" for the attention of Reed. IDK, but something smells rotten in Denmark to me, which is just a few hours south of me here in Sweden. IMO Reed is being raked over the coals and there is a massive coverup going on, and I am really eager and curious to eventually learn the backstory.
-Mr EntryReqrd
1:07:57 even the judge is tired of the Lallygagging
🎶 the hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne🎶
this just keeps popping in my head
Julie Nagel says she saw a “black blob” exactly where JO’K’s body, but NO one else saw anything? Why didn’t she say anything? Why didn’t she say, “Oh, hey! I saw something when we left the Alberts house…” But she doesn’t.
The Alberts probably realize that the boyfriend is too simple to lie effectively. It makes me think that she could have called him saying "come get me now" without going into all the gory details about exactly why. So now his story at trial is different from hers because nobody ever filled him in on the family's story. The high maintenance comment does seem honest coming from him. but it doesn't explain (for me) why their stories are different.
1:50:28 I didn't watch all of the first responder witnesses: have they established that the sirens were on arriving at the house? In my area, SOP is to cut the siren when you turn off the main road into a residential area. I've had cops, ambulance, fire truck parked right in front of my house at various times and didn't notice until someone happened to look out the window.
So are we saying he ate a hot dog & spilled it on his shirt?
That judge is... well, to a certain moment I was just thinking that we're just seeing her idiosyncrasies, but, uh, I can no longer treat her as an objective party in this whole thing. Wtf.
Replay crew with Life 360 free version - the adults and teen on both sides of my family have it. I rarely look at it, but it comes in handy when people are late so we can see whereabout they may be, or when traveling is happening. Kind of a loose way to see what's up without pestering each other.
Replay crew... life 360 bubbles about
.25 miles
That wasn’t Karen reeds searches, that was Jen’s searches. She said Karen told her to search it.
Dear Ian, Squirrel warned you she was going and slipped away peacefully in her own time as my husband did. I could not bind him to life any longer but at least I got to say goodbye in person
RUNKLE, YOU MUST STAY SAFE!!
She had to come up with a story to save the family
I'm sticking to this: If you are going to lie keep it simple and COMMON SENSE. And a collective lie? Puh, that's never gonna hold, ever. This bunch didn't think this would blow up in their faces. A crazy stupid all over.
How drunk was everyone that they have no defense memory?
I could totally see Robs bachelor party being at that one place in Vegas (I think it’s Vegas?) where you get to drive around in like tanks using the large pew pews… I’m pretty sure the only reason I know about it is from Vanderpump Rules several seasons ago, so EDB will probably remember what I’m talking about. It looked like a cool place and I’m not usually too into that kinda thing
Disagree on witness responses to the attorney’s question about friend vs acquaintance. If the attorney isn’t painting a correct picture, then you have to respond honestly.
I promise, i lot of biologists end up saying nucular instead of nuclear 😂 im sure ive even seen it on prof lecture slides
We had a rule at my parents house that when we came home late at night we had to tell my partents we were home just so mum could sleep easy... But usually we would just try to get our act together pop our head in and said "I'm home" hoping they would not smell the alcohol 😅 def. Not going in hugging them..
The 360 bubble can be anywhere from 1 mile to 25 and the time can be altered
Just started the replay. If they call every person in town to testify about the snow, I don't think I can make it. I can taste the gun oil in my mouth just thinking about another fifty people talking about the weather.
I'm pretty sure after the defense does cross on Matt then Jen McCabe is the only person left before the prosecution gets to it's expert witnesses and they actually start trying to prove their case.
Anyone who has made a determination of guilty at this point in the trial, should never ever serve on a jury. Need to see evidence presented from both sides.
Love you Uncle Runkle❤❤❤❤❤
I laughed when someone said you were a "turtle rider" because they don't like your opinion on a particular matter. Runkle is Runkle, that's what you get, his opinion. (That's why I love his channel)
He is Eddie Haskel...
I don't know if I could ever be a juror; the "Lalley" thing would've sailed over my head
Sounds like life 360 is doing something weird lol
Right? Whats with all the new phones? My current one is 2 years old and the one before that was over 4 years old
Something I just realized: who the heck gets a ride home at 1(ish) am to go home, and talks about making PB&J sandwiches IN THE CAR? I strongly suspect there was a case of the munchies happening.
That conversation never happened. It's just something they thought would lend credibility to their testimony because they all claim to remember the same silly detail.
@@Rowgue51 multiple things can be true. For example, they can all be telling lies about not seeing O'Keefe, but the bread story is true and I'm right that a bunch of them were stoned.
Re: the witness crying - any attention might feel like harassment if it's unexpected. It might also explain why some people are protecting others so hard?
That couldn't have been more planned and fake.
I'm catching up with your coverage but watching live with EDB. We're at the point where Matt McCabe is on the stand. He said he saw a jeep at the same time as Karens SUV and when the friends brother came to pick her up in the truck. Having now rewatched the boyfriends testimony, he said he was in a jeep. I think Caitlin Albert left a lot earlier than they are saying.
Bless you @runkle, bless squirrel 🐿️ ❤
The prosecutor objecting to all the questions about events and photos would make me immediately start considering the thing defense is suggesting as a fact that prosecution knows about and wants to keep hidden. Is the prosecutor _really_ that bad at this?
my favorite part of the whole trial is the sheer amount of spit sounds people make