The Seven Lost Lords: Narnia's Hidden Message in Voyage of the Dawn Treader
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2024
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Seven for Seven: The Voyage of the "Dawn Treader" and the Literary Tradition:
dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol34/i...
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The hidden symbolism in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader runs deep, but one of the most important messages is also one of the least discovered. We'll explore Aslan's quest given to Prince Caspian, Reepicheep, Lucy Pevensie, Edmund Pevensie, Eustace Scrubb, and many other Narnians in the Chronicles of Narnia. Find out today why C.S. Lewis decided that the Seven Lost Lords of Narnia became lost in the first place. - Розваги
I can't believe you're making us wait! Thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them!
Lol, that's awesome. Patreon members got to read the script for part 2, but I'm going try to get this out quickly! It's already been filmed! Can't wait to share it!
I know when I finished the video I was like NOOOOO!!
I thought that maybe Lord Bern's deadly sin would be sloth (because he was lazy and did not return to help Narnia - even though he was so close geographically). Or perhaps Lust - not because it is wrong to settle down with a spouse. But because in this case, his love caused him to he selfish and ditch the other Lords on their quest.
Thanks for these videos!
So how long DO we have to wait? I tried to look up the cited article but I couldn't access it.
Oh no. Do we have to wait an entire month?
"Besides that pool, there was no other water on Deathwater Island, and obviously it could not be drunk. Restimar must have been hot with thirst, and then came upon what he thought was a harmless pool of water, so he undressed and jumped in, never realising the danger it represented."
I don't think we can call Restimar greedy at all. He didn't know what the waters did.
There was a second stream on the island that was safe to drink from.--it's actually the first water source the party followed uphill to the top of the island.
However, after re-reading the passage, I see that Restimar dove in unclothed. I think Edmund's theory is likely,--Restimar may
not have known the powers of the water. I'll add it to my corrections list!
I noted this
That was exactly my thought. Greed seems more likely to have been the downfall of the lord on Dragon Island. Restimar might have fallen prey to sloth, if anything. or not being watchful of danger.
I appreciate your comments. I'd say that regardless of Restimar's knowledge or intent, greed is still the most plausible category for Goldwater/Deathwater island (note Death = Gold). This will be more fully supported in the next episode, but Caspian and Eustace are the most telling indicators of Deathwater vs Dragon Island: Eustace, the most undeniably prideful person in the Narniad, was transformed into a humble boy after his brush with Dragon Island. Caspian was so tempted to claim the infinite riches of Goldwater island for his own, he went so far as to threaten his friends with death if they told anyone about it.
I came to write this. Thank you.
Well done, Stuart. Another fascinating study. The endless significance of 7.
Always good when I see “Into The Wardrobe” on my notification screen 😌🤌🏾
I know right, best channel on UA-cam
Totally agree. I love seeing his videos
I wonder if the island of dreams might also have been lust, given the desires that the island called up. Before the realization that they were not good dreams, rather nightmares that can overtake the dreamer. Roop sought it and Caspian's crew was enticed at first by that idea. A touch of the other sins could be applied to many of these. I do agree that Restimar is only theoretical and symbolically greedy. If he unknowingly jumped in then it was more a tragic accident, now Caspian and Edmund's reactions speak to it being greed. Still, I never thought of it and I am excited to see what part two reveals. Thank you for this insight into my favorite series that, even C.S. Lewis pointed out, I appreciate as an adult even more than I did as a child.
Never thought of this before. Love the take you made with this video
Remember lucy and the spell book on duffelpud island.
You're on the right track!
I am intrigued. Looking forward to the next episode!
dawn treader is my favorite book, im excited to hear more
Very interesting. Looking forward to the next episode!
Very interesting, and thank you! 🙏😇 Now, after the next episode (and the immediate plans for other videos), could you please consider to do a video about old buddy Puddleglum and Marsh-wiggles? He may be one of the most inconspicuous characters in the Narnia franchise and is forgotten to his marsh ("I shouldn't wonder"), but surely he deserves to be introduced, and surely his character has some lesson prepared to us.
beautiful. every time I see one of your videos pop up I literally feel like I'm being throwing back in time to watching Narnia in theaters. what memories.
cheers & thank you
I always thought that when they got to the world end and they meet aslan it was very reminiscent of Jesus three times to peter saying “ feed my sheep, tend my lambs.
I was hoping when I checked the date, that this video had come out years ago and thus the 2nd part would have already been available! To my disappointment, it was new! Nevertheless! Great Job!
Always wondered about this. Looking forward to it.
Always look forward to these. Thank you.
Fascinating! i will be looking for the next video!
Intriguing.
Excellent analysis. I did guess 'greed' would fit in with gold water man, though I've been reminded here that his motives were somewhat ambiguous and the Narnians could only speculate. Dawn Treader is such an outstanding book and works well as an Act III for what might have been only a trilogy. Great treatment here of what evolved into a legendary 7-book series. Hey there's that number again.
I never thought that the seven lords would be the seven deadly sins. I can't wait to see the three remaining lords and what sin they are associated with. 😃🦁
I would guess sloth, but maybe wrath.
Interesting that Rhoop stands for Envy as he wants what others have so he lost himself. Caspian always forgets Rhoop's name on the list, like he isn't even himself anymore. Like Gollum in the other Inkling fantasy, he even forgot his own name...and so did others.
The seven deadly sins were always my take, but it's interesting to see your deep dive into it.
Aslan is on the move! 🦁
Can't wait to hear your theory in the second part!
What a great episode, Stuart! I actually habe never really paid mich attention to the seven Lords but now you've opened my eyes! Thabk you so much for that🤍
Thank you for the interesting video! Dawn Treader is my favorite Narnia book, but I never thought to compare the lost lords to the seven deadly sins. I look forward to seeing part two!
God be with you out there, everybody. ✝️ :)
Fabulous start my fellow Narnian❤😊👍🏼
Really love these vedio narnia is one of my all time favorite movie and books thanks for everything 😁😁
Great Analysis! can't wait for Part 2. From the way you're analysing the lords and the seven sins it kinda makes me wonder if the text is similar to Dante's Inferno in that Caspian and the crew of the Dawn Treader are being guided through the different islands (aka the layers/levels of hell) to teach them about the recognition and rejection of the Seven Sins so that when the end of Narnia does come later they can make the right choices and end up in Aslan's Country. Restimar's fate at Death Water Island in particular seems to be a reference to the river Styx where the souls of the violently wrathful jostle to get up onto the ferryman's boat while those passively wrathful remain submerged/drowned and unable to resurface. Also, it has a reference to Violence, which is the Seventh Circle of hell, as being near the deadly water almost drove Caspian and Edmund to fight and threaten violence upon one another when they otherwise had a fairly solid friendship throughout the book. Also the island of the Dufflepods and the Magician seems to be a reference to the Eighth circle of Hell (Fraud) a circle where sorcerers/magic users are said to be condemned to.
There are probably heaps more references baked into the novel but you get the picture.
I thought of another way you can look at the Lost Lords and the Islands: Aslan says in the end of Dawn Treader that all of the Pevensies' adventures in Narnia were tests to prepare them for the real world, or, I suppose more accurately, so they may grow closer to Aslan, which is Lewis trying to communicate children growing up and learning how to serve God. Anyway, my point is: what if each island and Lord is meant to be a test for the Pevensies to both mature religiously, AND developmentally, to avoid the fates of the Lost Lords or worse? Or, to compare to a popular Fantasy film, what if their journey in Dawn Treader is meant to be the same kind of journey Sarah from Labyrinth goes through, where she learns to accept that she must grow up?
This tie to the Seven Deadly Sins makes so much sense but I never saw it! I recently listened to a podcast that discussed Lewis' Medieval leanings (based off book Medieval Mind of CS Lewis). This seems to be another way it's manifested.
I don't see how envy is supposed to make sense for that dark island. The whole point of a symbol is for someone to understand what the symbol means, and this seems too obscure for that. Process of elimination is not valid reasoning unless we know for a fact that these seven lords really were intended to represent the seven sins, and judging from the dark island, it seems that maybe that assumption is wrong. It could just be that some of the lords fell victim to sins because that is a dramatically appropriate thing to fall victim to.
I agree! We'll address it in the next episode! Can't wait!!!
Wow, Into the Wardrobe! The plot thickens!! 😮
I think it's important to remember that C.S. Lewis' entry to Christianity came from a friend who was a very specific kind of Christian. Tolkein was a Roman Catholic. And as someone who grew up in that exact culture, this IS a symbol that is easily understood. This video isn't the first time I've heard this theory. I heard it too, in the 1980s, as a little girl, from Catholic educational sources. Even though Lewis joined the Anglican Church and rejected certain things about R. Cath., he was familiar with it and all of it's religious texts.
When you make a list of Sevens through his specific faith's lense, as well as R.C., process of elimination is one way to deduce this meaning. As well as other scriptural texts that C.S. Lewis would have felt privy to draw from, texts which other denominations of Christians may have never even read because they're literally not included in their Bibles.
This makes alot of sense, since the 7 deadly sins are a very medieval concept, and CS Lewis was a medievalist par excellence. Sometimes the best place to hide things is in plain sight! Also, the island of dreams really disturbed me back when I first read Narnia, because I used to have surreal, intense nightmares as a kid.
I was so thankful that when I read it I had recently had a wonderful dream, recently enough to remember it vividly.
Ooooo two parter!!!
I thought that Lord Restimar simply dived into the pool to cool down.
That's certainly what the landing party surmises. My point was less about the actual actions of Restimar and more about the nature of the danger on the island. Thanks for making the clarification here!
Why did i have a feeling this was going to be about the sins... regardless im excited about the next part...
I always thought that Octesian was the dragon that died when Eustace first showed up.
Possibly. The crew was never certain if the dragon was Octesian himself or if Octesian was killed by the dragon.
I found Lucy’s, “You’re not - Eustace?” such a heartwarming response. Dear Lucy, always ready with wisdom & sympathy.
With regard to DT, I am trying to fathom Coriakin and the Dufflepuds. It is complex. There is something here
Yes. You're already one step ahead, my friend!
@@IntotheWardrobe what was his punishment for doing ??
@@jonathanbrewer7072, it is not for human beings to understand the sins of stars.
Another analysis makes each book based in the early view of the planets.I have the book. It’s. Seems to fit very well, each book having a planet as it’s background theme.
Hi! Could you make a video about the concept of heaven and hell in the last battle. That barn seems to me like both heaven and hell to me. or am i wrong?
Normally I'm not replying on YT vids, but this channels been wonderful so far so lets go answer your question:
The last three lords are (if I remember correctly) not mentioned by name at the Table of Aslan, but I suppose the lord proposing to stay at Ramandu's island is either gluttony or lust, the lord who took the Stone Knife is wrath, and the Lord wanting to sail back to Narnia is maybe lust? I don't know, since he longed for Narnia and thats certainly not wrong (I did long to be there many many times, haven't you?) so what was his fault? I am very curious about the second episode, since I agree with you at Deathwater and Dragon Island, but a process of elimination doesn't work if you have two variables you do not know (the last mentioned lord and lord Rhoop), so I am very curious and excited for the coming episode!
Above that, be blessed for doing such great work for Narnia and Lewis' legacy as an apologetic, love to hear from Boyce College in USA, I did a similar school in the Netherlands (where I come from). Blessings and keep up the great work!
Interesting…
Read the book "again?" Heh, I think this is the only book in the Chronicles of Narnia that I haven't read, because my family didn't own it. I have seen two versions of movies about the book, but... yeah. I think I need to find a copy of Dawn Treader, and read it for the first time.
DO!
The film was appalling in its changes to the book. The TV series was much better but still left out quite a bit.
And Catweazle was in it, which meant more to me than to most people, probably.
I can see how Bern’s desire/lust for comfort would turn him aside from his quest and duty as a Narnian lord.
I never thought of dragons as proud, but it makes sense that it would fuel their greed. They desire treasure because they want to be at the center of it all; thus Octesian and Eustace fall prey to their pride in the dragon’s lair.
Before watching this video, I had thought of Restimar as a hapless victim of the pool, but now I see another side to it. On the (purportedly) hot day, he came upon the pool; not being satisfied with a mere drink, he desired to possess all the “comfort” the pool could offer him. Toward that end, he undressed and dived, becoming a victim of his own greed.
Regarding Rhoop’s entrapment: I always considered envy and covetousness to be related (but inherently different) sins. Envy is drawn from the pride of life (egoism), desiring to BE what someone else IS (similar to Lucy’s envy of Susan’s reputation as the family beauty). Covetousness, on the other hand, is drawn from the lust of the eyes (materialism), desiring to HAVE what someone else POSSESSES. In that regard, perhaps Rhoop’s enticement was drawn from covetousness rather than envy?
All sin covers three things. Pride, lying and coveting. So every sin you do, you do all three of those things. One can covet anything. Pride means opposition to God. One must lie to sin, as all sin is a lie.
You've hit on one of the reasons it can be hard to categorize a specific action as a "type" of sin. The types themselves are artificial compartmentalizations. In reality each category overlaps in the same way you're describing.
(By the way, isn't it interesting that the list of 7 deadly sins doesn't include lying?)
It seems to me you are right on target with your three basic elements that all sin requires: a distortion of the truth, a desire for that which you should not have, and a view of self that places yourself above your Creator.
Those were the essential ingredients in the original sin, and they continue to be at the root of it all today.
@@IntotheWardrobe Sin is misunderstood also. Take Adam and Eve. Partaking of the forbidden fruit was necessary to the Plan of Salvation. But the caveat here was that not only did they have to to advance the will of the Father without God being responsible for their choice, their choice to do so had to be done to obey another commandment to have children.
The forbidden fruit was mortal. Unlike the rest of the garden. They did not sin in partaking the fruit, because they did not know right from wrong. They were innocent. Eve knew they had to in order to obey God in having children.
Partaking the fruit changed the earth from one degree of glory to another. As 1st Corinthians 15 says, heaven has three degrees of glory.
Partaking the fruit changed their bodies by the forbidden fruit being mortal, producing blood into their bodies. Because the wicked will be destroyed at the second coming, each degree of glory has different rules governing it. We are in the lowest degree of glory and the requirements for avoiding it is to live the 10 Commandments. The highest degree where God lives, requires a different and higher standard in the New Testament. Including perfection and the desire to become and choose to live as he does in becoming a God.
As I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I understand sin and the Garden of Eden differently and believe in modern day revelation to a living prophet.
I do not understand why C S Lewis hated my religion and why Hollywood doesn’t make the next book into a movie, The Silver Chair into a movie.
I do agree with many things CS Lewis taught. Aslan is the Savior. Sin is slavery. Tilda Swinton plays the White Queen, a representative of Satan.
In LDS teaching, Satan was denied a body by his rebellion against his older brother Jesus and God. He did not need to tempt Adam and Eve to stop God’s plan. His lust for power permitted God’s children to come to earth and be tempted by him.
In the first movie, we learn that the Atonement of Christ, done by proxy, requires we do all we can to overcome sin, not because we are paying the Savior back, but because we want to learn heaven, not earn it. Which is why we do baptism for the dead. It is also by proxy, for God does not discriminate. All those who have ever lived will be given the choice to accept the fullness of the gospel in this last dispensation called Fulness of Times, Ephesians 10:1. The Lord will never take his Church off the earth for apostasy again. He will burn the vineyard as stated in the Book of Mormon in the allegory in Jacob 5, at the second coming, as the vineyard represents the earth.
Time is short for the Gentiles. They are those who are not members of his Church, who when they are baptized, they are adopted into Israel and the Abrahamic Covenant. They take on all covenants and ordinances that the Lord offers for both salvation and exaltation. Because all contracts on the earth, including marriage are null and void at death, without the Spirit and the Lord in a covenant contract.
The Gospel will go to the Jews. After America is cleansed first during Armeggedon.
During the Millennium, people will die but not be buried. They will live life and be free to practice any religion like today. Temple work will continue with us and no wicked will be on the earth because Satan will be bound.
What these movies taught me is while we may be called to defend our beliefs, it won’t always be by war. And we may think we are alone, but they that are with us are greater than they are with them. Adam, or Michael the archangel will lead his armies.
We teach the Garden of Eden is in Jackson County Missouri, and that a temple must be built there and a priesthood meeting as stated in Daniel 7 must occur where Adam hands over all keys of the priesthood to Christ.
Time is short for Satan. We must learn to repent.
Thank you for talking about the 7 deadly sins and how we don’t realize what constitutes sin or transgression. Both are violations of God’s law, but one is based on knowledge and the other is based on ignorance. But ignorance will not save anyone.
We know what CS Lewis’s characters in the movie represent and which side they serve and what tactics they employ.
We should always be willing to study the beliefs of others and other religions because all of them have truth to them. My religion does not have a monopoly on truth, but all truth comes from God and is sanctioned by God, whether scientific, mathematical or religious, etc.
I believe the Lord approves of what these books and movies try to teach, although I disagree with his beliefs somewhat.
The Catholics changed Church government and Evangelicals changed Church doctrine. That is what we teach that separates them from us. We believe in a Restoration from the Great Apostasy when the Church was taken off the earth when the original apostles were killed.
Have a good day.
For more of what we teach, there is Mormon.org or LDS.org.
No wonder you have so many REALLY WEIRD opinions if you’re a LDS.
Where on earth would you get the idea that sin was necessary to have children? God commanded them to multiply before even telling them about the trees. Anyone would think sex was sinful if they thought that, despite God also telling us to re
Rejoice in the spouse of our youth, & Paul commending marriage as well as singleness.
Before I watch the video, I'm going to guess:
The Seven Deadly sins and the mountain of Purgatorio?
Reminiscent of Dante, it would seem.
It would make more sense for the sins to be in order. Lewis would know that not all of the sins were equal. My only confusion is why he decided to go opposite Dante: Least sins first and greatest sins last (closest to Paradise?)
Lust- Bern as mentioned
Gluttony: The Dragon island and Octavia. The excess must be removed in order for a Christian to be effective (Aslan's claws).
Avarice: Restimar as mentioned
Sloth: Rhoop. Dreams. Sleep and nightmares. You enter a dark world and choose not to leave. The sluggard becomes impoverished and cannot leave his position.
The final three are:
Wrath (they fight)
Envy (In the original Latin, Envy was more like "taking pleasure in seeing another's downfall.") This may be deducible from some of their actions (But its been so long since reading VDT that I can't think of which)
Pride: Hubris in taking up the sacred knife. The sin most urgently despised, as that was the original reason for the Angelic fall.
Of course, I'm in the middle of rereading the Purgatorio now. Recent exposure changes how one thinks. Interesting how Odysseus's account in the Inferno is vaguely familiar: A voyage and capsizement right before reaching the sacred mountain. He too was stopped from reaching the end.
Perhaps Reepicheep was symbolic of Beatrice- divine aid and supplication from heavenly saints to rid the men of their sin.
Nice. Can you guess next week's surprise twist?
@@IntotheWardrobe I believe the reply I posted seconds before yours was an inadvertent answer to your question. I'm sure there was lots of symbolism which the well-read Anglican (Lewis) took from Dante (and other Catholics). I'm excited to see the other ways they relate.
My comment has nth to do with the seven but a thought that came to mind...would it be possible to get the actors to redo the ending of The Wardrobe now that they have grown older ?
do you have a list of the artists who's works were featured in this?
I created all of these images with digital tools like Photoshop and Midjourney. It's the most time intensive part of the process, so thanks for noticing!
Edit: This video also features Pauline Bayne's original map of Narnia as well as her illustrations in a clip of the timeline of Narnia.
@@IntotheWardrobe oh! i see! i thought some of them were ai, but i thought the ones with flags/heraldry weren't but that must be the photoshop part!
Ah, I should clarify: This video does contain the official Narnia Map by Pauline Baynes. There's also a shot of a timeline of Narnian history featuring Bayne's illustrations. That book is from the 30th Anniversary Narnia Compilation book.
Just a coincidence for Lucy. Probably not for us readers, given Lewis’s faith.
Never would have guessed that sin for Octesian but it makes sense. I'm excited to hear what you think the last three will be!
Can't wait to talk about Octesian again in the next episode!
can you do a video about "how the wardobe in narnia is made"
❤
It seems either Lewis or Martin are using a pseudoetymology for invidia where it becomes in-vidia, in-videre, therefore 'not-seeing'.
And Dante seems to support the pseudoetymology by having the eyes of the envious sewn shut.
Interesting idea. That may very well have been part of Martin's understanding. However in the next episode, I'll show that Lewis had a different intention entirely unrelated to invidia. Stay tuned. :-)
At some point, I hope you'll help me figure out why Caspian and his queen waited a ridiculously long time give birth to Rillian. Caspian in The Silver Chair was somewhere in his 80s when he died. Rillian cannot be any more than very early twenties by the chronology presented in The Silver Chair. This means that by all accounts Caspian fathered him in his sixties. It boggles my mind because it flies in the face of what I know historically about court life. One of the earliest things that royals do is to procure an heir to the throne, so as to why this didn't happen for such a long time is beyond me. At first I thought that maybe the king and queen previously only had daughters, if they don't practice primogeniture, but even then I hit a roadblock when reading that Rillian was the king's only -child-.
Great question!
According to Lewis' Narnia timeline, Caspian x was born in 2290 NT and married Ramandus daughter in 2310 when he was 20 years old. Rillian was born 15 years later in 2225 when Caspian was 35. The Silver Chair incident takes place in 2356 when Rillian was 31. Capsian died the same year at the age of 66.
So it may be that Capsian aged prematurely due to grief or was in such poor health that he appeared more elderly than he actually was.
As to why they waited 15 years, one can only speculate. It's possible that the difficult work of the restoration of Narnia kept Capsian preoccupied. But perhaps it is more likely that there were difficulties conceiving or prior miscarriages? It may be harder for a human and a star/human hybrid to reproduce than one might imagine!
Love the question!
@@IntotheWardrobe but wait! That timeline completely contradicts Eustace's dialogue saying that it's been about 70 years?
@keithtorgersen9664 sharp thinking! I think there is an explanation here. However, to a mindful reader like yourself, I do agree that this would be somewhat confusing without the timeline to reference.
I think the most charitable (and very fair) interpretation is that Eustace is speaking in context of his horror at finding Capsian so advanced in age. Because of Capsian's premature aging, it SEEMS that it 70 years must have passed. He does qualify his statement with the word "apparently":
"And now apparently it's been about seventy years-Narnian years-since I was here last. Do you see now? And I come back and find Caspian an old, old man."
So I think it's fair to say Eustace didn't know the exact years at that moment to be able to work out the math, but instead was judging the timespan only by what he could observe.
You've inspired me on the subject of my next episode: answering the best questions from viewers.
I wonder which of the final 3 lords have either gluttony, wrath or lust?
I would never link Lord Bern with Self-Indulgence, I mean with happened to him comparing with the others, in truth I would never link the entire book collection with the bible or the other elements in this page, if weren't for it I always look to Narnia as a series of Fantasy, returning to the seven lords, going for the reason they did live Narnia (New Telmar) I can see it as a Journey to find God, to find answers, adding how Aslan country is detailed in the Silver Chair, as for the next episode I can take picture for what thew other sins will be like, or what form they'll take.
wow i always thought the one who fell in the water died of greed, i had tried to fit them to the 7 deadly sins, but not familiar with them. i always wondered why the names were so.... makes sense that they also fit in though i could not make them, linguistics are not my thing
I don't think Lord Bern makes sense. He was the only lord to stay in Narnian territory, so it can't really be said that he abandoned his duty there, especially since he has been trying to change things on the Lone Islands for the better, petitioning Governor Gumpas to stop the slave trade, buying slaves from Pug to rescue them, etc.
Thanks for the comment. While Bern hadn't left Narnia territory, I think it almost makes it worse. He wasn't acting as a Lord there. He had essentially retired in hiding. He also abandoned the quest, leaving the fellow lords with one less man. Luxuria is defined as "Conscious negligence", i.e. abandoning ones duties. It really does fall under that definition doesn't it?
1000th like.
1000th thank you!
@@IntotheWardrobe You're welcome.
I'm at 4:45, and I'm going to guess which lord is which deadly sin. Bern = Sloth (please not Lust - he got married, which isn't the same thing!), Octesian = Wrath, Greed or Envy; Rhoop = either Cowardice or Lust (enticed by dreams, ending in a nightmare), Argoz = Pride or Wrath; the one who says "Mustard Please" = Gluttony; Restimar = Lust (his actions echo how Redcrosse in The Faerie Queene was trapped by Duessa), Greed or Envy. Let's see if I guessed right!
You catch a few great details here. Can't wait to hear your thoughts about the next episode!
Well the last 3 lords they wanted more like so they felt for the food and spell got them , am i right? I think thats as the lord who felt for gold and riches but these last 3 lords they werent thinking about whether the food on the table was not good or bad but they simply went and eat it and felt for spell.
No, it is something else. They fell asleep, because the blade that the White Witch used to kill Aslan on the Stone Table was present.
They fell asleep, because the 3 quarrelled over whether or not the food was safe, and one of the three picked up the blade, and then fell asleep, because violence was banned by Aslan at that Table.
What caused that state of mind, may be wrath.
At least its the book and not the disney attempt... i sat through those picking out what was wrong with it.
Awful, weren’t they. Wardrobe wasn’t TOO bad, but Voyage! So many *unnecessary* changes.
@judithstrachan9399 yep and I was looking forward to seeing aslan song on film... they would probably do some big bang garbage instead...
What list of 7 deadly sins are you using?
Your list has several words I’m unfilimiar with?
Augustine's list, which I would consider definitive. The Latin words are translated into the English list we are more familiar with. Popular vernacular has somewhat shifted the original meanings in some items as well.
@@IntotheWardrobe ok.
I’m more familiar with….greed, pride or arrogance, gluttony, envy, or jealousy, rage,
And one more. Lust?
No, 2 more.
@@judithstrachan9399 yeah I’ll try again.
Gluttony, pride / arrogance , lust, rage, greed, sloth, and envy/ jealousy
There is NO way a dragon's treasure does NOT stand for Greed.
Especially since Lewis wrote this after Tolkien wrote The Hobbit.
I disagree and I believe the next episode will further support the alternative model I will be revealing. The bait of a moral trap is the revealed by the type of creature that is caught in the trap. Throughout his time in the story, Eustace showed that he was undoubtedly prideful, though greed was never indicated. Moreover, what was the primary result of his transformation from dragon back into human? He gained newfound humility.
As to the literary device of the treasure? I think the fact that Eustace took a bracelet, not jewels or coins is telling. In medieval times is was a symbol of power, wealth and social status. Eustace wanted the world to believe he was in superior class. He literally wore his pride on his sleeve.
@@IntotheWardrobeYou already responded to a comment making this point, I repeat it verbatim:
"Besides that pool, there was no other water on Deathwater Island, and obviously it could not be drunk. Restimar must have been hot with thirst, and then came upon what he thought was a harmless pool of water, so he undressed and jumped in, never realising the danger it represented."
I don't think we can call Restimar greedy at all. He didn't know what the waters did.
Edit: Eustace has to be the greedy one because Restimar is not.
There actually was other water on the island--an eastern stream where the landing party had already watered. They discovered the deathwater stream at it's source when then took an alternate route back to the ship.
Regardless of the circumstances of Restimar's fate (and I do concede that Ed's speculation is probably correct), the moral danger of the island is still plainly seen in Caspian's reaction to the power of the pool. When he realized that this island was a source of infinite wealth, he not only claimed it as his own-- he actually threatened his friends with death if they threatened to share it with anyone else. Greed isn't just about acquiring wealth, it's also about depriving others of the good things you have been given.
Note that the island was originally going to be called "Goldwater" but was changed to "Deathwater." The implication is that Gold is equivelant to Death--the death of the soul.
@@IntotheWardrobe The death of the soul? Really? That is an example of how allegorical interpretations tend to get really stupid really fast.
Gold=Death because people kill for money, no allegory is needed.
I'm about to mute you for rudeness. I enjoy the discussions but keep it respectful.
Why do people kill for money? Greed. The seven deadly sins are called deadly because they were believed to have resulted in the death of the soul.
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I always thought Voyage of the Dawn Trader was obviously a story about the seven deadly sins. However, I wouldn't have said Death Island was Envy; I would have said Coriakin and the Dufflepuds island were envy. Lucy was tempted because of her jealousy of Susan's beauty, and if Aslan had not stopped her, she would have spoken the spell and caused chaos because she had never discovered Narnia. Personally, I would have said Death Island was lust, An island that tempts you with your heart's desire but twists it into a nightmare. I wouldn't of said Restimar was tempt by greed but Caspain and Edmund certain were. They only stopped cos Aslan showed up. the overarching story of Voyage of the Dawn Trader is about Sin and Temptation and about Aslan Saving the children and Caspin from Said temptation. which is another one of C.S. Lewis ways of pointing to Jesus.
I thought the spell she ends up using in the book was to find out what her class mates thought of her. She only desired to be as beautiful as susan.
You're on the right track! One of the problems with categorizing temptation is that there is actually a lot of overlap of common desires and motivations between various "sins". I think there's one category that fits here perfectly though. Next episode!
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I keep getting unsubscribed.
These seem like rather far reaches. Bern was effectively banished by a usurper. He had no duty to continue, and no duty to return. While Eustace was definitely prideful, there is simply no textual evidence that Octesian was too. On death water, the chapter specifies that they find the cloths and armor or Restimar on the shore, and our heroes themselves speculate that he simply dove in to take a bath. This has nothing to do with greed. Finally, you yourself admit that there isn’t good evidence for Rhoop and dark island in your theory and it is just shoe horned in through a process of elimination. While I await part ii, this theory is so far the weakest presented on your channel (imo)
Just wait till the next episode. I think youll find the pieces will align quite convincingly.
I mean could you blame him? A nice life and love over dealing with another corrupt monarch, lord burn did nothing wrong
Depends on if he had an oath to defend king and country. If he did he broke that oath even if the king was a tool
It's fair question! I think he can be held morally responsible for desertion. As a Lord, he was given a high calling to serve the King (Caspian IX) and he traded it for a life of safety amongst slave traders. It's a perfect example of Luxuria. Thankfully, Caspian showed him grace.
@IntotheWardrobe In other words, he was guilty of being lazy.
If the content is good people will sub. No one likes being asked to subscribe at the start of a video. You’re too good a channel for that schtick.
This could have been one full video come onnnnn
@@lsixty30there's a lot more to come than just the last 3 lords. Combining would have made for a very long video and would have taken another month to release. I'd rather make it more "bite sized" and let people process their own ideas in the meantime.
Just trying to be helpful, as it's easy to forget to follow up a month later.
Trust me, it's not a schtick. Subs arent really an important factor for channels these days as the algorithm doesn't seem to care how many subs a channel has.
Thanks for the comment though. Appreciate the feedback.
@@IntotheWardrobe If it isn’t important then why do you ask at the start? My comment on wanting this in one video is a personal preference. My comment on asking for subs before the video has even played is not, it is an observation of what is certainly a schtick. Your content is awesome, it draws subs on its own merit, ask at the end if you truly just mean to remind people about this “not really important” request.
@@lsixty30 it's important for the viewer, but it's not as important for me as the content creator. By calling it a schtick there's an implication that there's something gimmicky and selfish about it. The purpose is to make sure the viewer doesn't miss the follow up. Just helping you understand the "why".
Honestly, I think you're just reading too deeply into something potentially innocuous. Sometimes a cigar, etc etc.
Lewis is famous for embedding deeper layers of influence or meaning into his writings. Check back next episode and tell me if you still think there's no connection.
@@IntotheWardrobe I'm reminded of an exchange Lewis and a colleague had in "Shadowlands". The colleague asked if there was a deeper meaning behind the wardrobe--specifically, if it had any sexual metaphor. Lewis (played by Anthony Hopkins) insisted that the wardrobe didn't have any deeper meaning, it was just magic. I invoke the same reasoning here.
I'm going to counter your theories. First, with Bern. When the crew of the DT land, they're almost instantly whisked away into the slave trade. Bern buys Caspian, who later reveals himself, and together they overthrow the slave trade and the governor, and Bern takes his place. If he HADN'T quit his quest then and there, Caspian and crew might very well have spent the rest of their lives as slaves. Could the rest of the DT crew have saved them? Perhaps, but Bern's presence there sounds more like serendipity than sin (or negligence). If anything, he's rewarded for his self-indulgence.
As for Octesian, his fate is never clarified, though it's pretty clear that he was no longer "of the world". I'm willing to grant you the possibility that he was changed into a dragon due to enchantment only because we see a precedence for it, but the dragon was NOT wearing the bracelet when it perished (presumably due to internal injuries, as Lewis describes blood issuing from its mouth), and I doubt Octesian would have parted with it. I give him a pass and say "death by dragon-based adventure", possibly devouring (he may have even done some harm on the way down, hence the internal injuries).
I believe commentors have already given Restimar a pass regarding his fate; he only seemed interested in cooling himself off, as his clothes were discarded (he wouldn't have taken them off if he had slipped in). He evidently didn't know Deathwater was cursed/enchanted, and is more of a victim than a willful participant.
I also give Rhoop a pass, as any sea-voyage over uncharted waters depends heavily on finding fresh food and water, and any island is a potential for both. Since it's highly unlikely Rhoop would have known of the island's property before landing, then he's not at fault for what happened.
Mavramorn, Revilian, and Argoz definitely deserved a time-out for their behavior.
Typical theological gymnastics. Shameful.
Care to elaborate? This isn't a theological analysis, it's a literary one.
Hahahaha!
I read the article in its entirety, and although it has been many years since I read the book, I can agree that, with the trials beset by Lord Rhoop, that "envy" seems more likely the case because, as people give in to their envious desires, they tend to "chase after the adulterous life," or "go in circles," which is what was happening to the Dawn Treader until Lucy calls out Aslan's name to help them.
And I doubt that the first image they see in the clouds is a cross is just a coincidence.