Tesla Has A Problem With The 4680 Battery Cell...
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Tesla Has A Problem With The 4680 Battery Cell...
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As a useless, retired, old Industrial Design Engineer, I see the problem is the dry binder. It maintains its mass and volume in the mix, thus displacing anode/cathode particles, reducing particle film density and making the film too thick. The solvent based system evaporated and reduced thickness while keeping the desired density. Either solvent base to maximize performance or reduce/replace solid binder with one that requires less volume in the mix, thus increasing particle density and cell performance. Committing to a production technology/technique before having a solution to these issues isn't an efficient process and these things were likely known, or SHOULD have been, prior to the massive commitment of resources toward this method of production. Like a said, I'm an old, useless, retired Industrial Design Engineer and these are simply musings of my observations.
Perhaps, but in my view spirally winding the batteries is the mistake. The cylindrical format is a legacy hanging over from C cells, D cells etc. They were weren't spirally wound they were bulk filled. For EVs the blade cell configuration makes much better sense and only requires 126 cells to make an EV battery pack, vs thousands for comparable cylindrical cells.
@@jimgraham6722Agreed.
Powder coat paints are thinner and more evenly applied than solvent based systems, likely similar to the application of the battery dry application. They may have a mixing problem.
They need to use pseudo cavitation mixing.
@@jimgraham6722...I believe the can design was initially done for structural/puncture resistance reasons because this chemistry is more prone to thermal runaway. LFP batteries are looking like the way to go instead.
Thank you for your service ~ now please go and enjoy your retirement.
2:25 Range is most certainly CRITICAL
Right now I'd put my money on CATL winning the energy density race but it will be an interesting contest.
The range difference on a day to day use is not so stark because you charge the iron battery to 100% and the other to 80%.
Thank you for an accurate critique of the issue and not another fanboy post. No doubt Tesla will figure out a battery solutuon for the "Model 2" within the next few years.
6:22 shouldn't that be 30x? (100GWh to 3TWh)
I think Tesla is focusing on production yield and quality before mass produce.
Toyota did the same thing with the flat batteries that still haven't been used
Sandy Munro owes everyone an apology.
I worked there for almost a year everything is fine
This completely ignores that they have a new factory in California pumping out massive amounts of cells for mega packs.
I would still get the 4,680 battery cells with my model Y, because it has less chance of combusting. And don’t worry, Tesla does a lot of early fine tuning that helps to eventually ramp up massively.
Sorry to disappoint you. They use the same flammable electrolyte
Reducing cost of production does not have to mean cheaper cars. It makes sense to sell a now cheaper car at similar prices to before when demand is high.
That’s some fine sleuthing amigo! I’m sure Tesla can pull it off ❤
Just wondering is it possible to plasma coat the cathode instead of using the old Xerox copier toner technique?
Great explanation. Thanks for sharing!
Batteries are in a constant state of improvements and changes. the 4680 battery is constantly changing and Tesla is not the only manufacturer. Panasonic and CATL are both making 4680 cells. Tesla and other battery manufacturers are always looking at battery chemistry and changing chemistry. Looking any battery manufactured today doesn't mean much because LFP batteries might gain popularity or sodium/ion or graphene or... The batteries being installed in cars in 2033 have probably not been designed yet. The secret is who is currently building EV's at a scale and at a profit and Tesla is the only manufacturer that has accomplished that feat so far. Tesla is building a great car right now and as batteries improve so will Ev's.
Panasonic and CATL may be making 4680 form factor cells, but are they using dry electrode tech? Are they using a tabless design? No, and probably not. Battery cells that look the same on the outside, may be very different indeed on the inside.
Now, it may be that Tesla will abandon its efforts at dry electrode tech. Something better and easier to produce may come along any time. As you say, EV battery tech is constantly changing and constantly improving.
Maxwell founders must be laughing to the bank for selling Tesla a non production ready process.
Metamaterials inc. in Halifax has batteries that can survive being shot at.
NPORE and NCORE cathode anode tech can be made much lighter, and safter now.
The hangup is changing the 4680 from Lithium-Ion, to Lithium Iron Phosphate, because Lithium-Ion sucks.
I wish you had done the problems first then the ramifications after. I almost turned off and missed all the interesting content.
Phillip.
Dont make batterys by bulk porduction.
Make them in a way for max storage. trash that and do it again.
Good video !!!
Great work! 👍🏻🙏🏻❤️
лучше горячую жидкость, быстро высыхающие по быстро летающим лентам, катящиеся в холодные помещения.
There's probably more cobalt in your iPhone than a single Panasonic 2170 cell? how many cells make up a battery pack? 7000? I don't own 7000 phones.
We need BIC to solve this problem
Very hard problem. Low gains. Not much benefits beside projected cost cutting..... that's a banger idea for Musk.
I heard cybertruck has franken 4680 called the cyberbattery or something
You have one flaw in your reasoning. The world was impacted by shortages/shutdowns/inflation due to Covid for 2-3 years. The period you have mentioned fall within this date and not only Tesla was affected but the world. This holds true with construction of GigaTexas.
Musk is known for his over-optimistic timelines. But usually, he achieves his goals - just not by his advertised schedule.
Yes. It can achieve anything as long as you can wait until.
Yeah, he's overly "optimistic" . Unfortunately for him, in the last couple of years the Chinese have been making huge leaps in battery tech AND can produce those batteries, Tesla even uses their batteries.
Difference here is that they actually lied. They said they were currently producing cells with these stats 3 years ago. They weren't then and they aren't now.
Such an unreasonable thing to say. Elon Musk has failed on far more of his promises than not.
Time also matters. Solving self driving in 50 years isn’t impressive. Solving it in 2019 would have been impressive.
Everyone would be fine if he missed timelines by even up to 50% (It'll be ready in 12 months but takes 18). What is frustrating is when he says FSD will be feature complete by 2019, yet four years later its still nowhere near complete! (Save it! Elon needs to drive for 45 minutes on V12 in any downtown metro area with zero or even 1 intervention before anyone can say its close, because driving mainly in the suburbs on well-marked streets doesn't pass muster!) The current excuse is they're "compute constrained", but they'll have 100x the compute power up and running by Oct 2024. At that time they'll be another reason it's still not ready and the Cult-bulls will forget all past failed projections and just roll over and lap up whatever the new "game changing" strategy is pushed that will actually solve it this time, just like they did in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and soon 2024. It's actually fully understandable that FSD hasn't been solved. It's likely the hardest technical challenge ever attempted and the amount of edge cases are nearly limitless. What I don't understand is why Elon keeps predicting these ridiculous timelines. I think most people and investors would rather Tesla keep many of these projects under a Skunk Works type R&D department and only unveil them when they are literally go-to-market ready. Rant over... and as an investor, I will happily eat my words and admit I'm an idiot with maximum contrition if FSD is solved by year's end. PLEASE make it happen, Elon and the Tesla FSD team!
IM WATTS,AND IS SO NEEDED FOR TESLA,THAT THEY STORE IT IN BATTERYS TO RUN CARS.
And now that removed the regular Y
0:20 Wouldn´t that be evolutional?
So why not bite the bullet and scale up the wet process.
I have never understood why so many people 'believed' 4680 to be magical while 4680 only refers to a form factor.
Then you need to watch a video of Tesla's "battery day" presentation. Many very significant breakthroughs were predicted. If the claims were true, then it would have been a breathtaking quantum jump in battery performance and cost. Sadly, as this video shows, most of those breakthroughs have not materialized.
No, it was never about the 4680 form factor. The "magic" was about what was claimed to be inside.
Thank you for the comment. I saw the presentation mentioned. Let me put it this way, those breakthroughs could also have been achieved with other sizes of batteries. Batteries of other dimensions would also have benefitted from these 'breakthrougs'.
What needs to happen is reduce the cost of materials which means gag up the pansies in Nevada and EPA and get going. Just wasting time when the USA has the world largest lithium reserves.
Nothing that a diesel generator cant fix LOL
EVs are not the answer and the problem is not just batteries, it’s the systems that are needed to charge them too!
No innovations are needed for the charging tech. The electrical engineering for practical charging was done decades or even centuries ago. All that is needed is building out charging stations using existing tech. Not so with EVs; the tech -- particularly the battery tech -- still has some ways to go before BEVs are fully competitive with gasmobiles (and diesel trucks).
Knew it. And in the meantime, other battery manufacturers have leapfrogged them. Tsk.
It’s not about a better battery but cost and automation.
Perhaps if Elon applied his skills to the production problem, instead of poking the bird to death.
Oh, my!
Elon makes lofty promises and fails to deliver?
What a shocker..!
LMAO... you're going to compare how fast the 4680 CASE can be produced to determine how fast the full battery should be made?? Poor choice for realistic comparison....
First
I spent my life in manufacturing.
Manufacturing is hard.
Making millions of anything is very hard.
They will get it.
Yep, only 3 years into an new production. These things take time.
R and D and prototyping is hard. The design impacts manufacturing. Once manufacturing is set up, turn the crank. But getting set up can be hard.
@@mefobills279 Till something breaks.
once running you have so much that can and will go wrong.
If its not the customers, its the vendors. and then its the employees.
Every day its a new issue.
Keeping high speed manufacturing running is its own challenge.
Finally someone realistic reporting on Tesla.
-subscribed, ALL
Yes, my first thumbs up for a Tesla fanboy channel.
That small price difference allows Tesla Y buyers to squeak under the $50k limit of many state EV incentives. The price they sell these cars at is determined by demand, not the cost of the battery cells
Aside from the fact that the 4680 is a useless white elephant and relies on old technology.
The biggest EV battery and car manufacturer (they sold 500,000 more cars than Tesla last year) is BYD. Their battery technology leaves Tesla at the starting blocks. Even Tesla are using the latest Chinese LFP CATL batteries.
It tells you Tesla is far behind Chinese EV technology and manufacturing.
The only thing setting Tesla apart from other EV manufacturers is it FSD. But the Chinese will supersede that in a year or so.
So many fans here blindly overprotecting Tesla which i too driving Model 3. Good to hear they are struggling sometimes like everyone else 😊 Nice work on the news and content you made 👍
if you don’t take anything “elon says” with a grain of salt i’ve got a bridge to sell you.
My big issue with this video is that he is making assumptions on sticker price of the modely variant with the cost of the battery. Which is rediculous.
Are they still going to make Cybertrucks with 4680 cells? I also heard that the top model Cybertruck is not going to have 500 miles of range but more like 400 miles of range. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Thanks for the video. I was hoping the 4680 would be more efficient, not less. It's a good thing I'm just about last on the list for Cybertruck delivery. Maybe they will figure it out by then.
same here I am probably 3 years from when ever they release it from getting mine.
The slightly lower cost is that way is simply to slow consumption of them to a rate they can keep up with. That's the entire basis of their pricing, it's whatever price they have to set in order to keep their production lines running at capacity. Demand goes up? Raise prices to adjust consumption.
Yes, this exactly. Also, the idea in the video that doubling a cars range should double the price totally ignores all the fixed non-battery costs that go into a vehicle.
@@seanxmurray true but as a consumer you'll see a 6% difference in price for a 20% difference in travel which is the main differentiating feature between the 2 options.
This ignores consumer price sensitivity. Raise prices 10%? Sure, you can always do that. But if that crashes your sales volume, it may not be wise. Especially considering that, price per mile/range is clearly worse in it's current state...
It's a good thing I have used toyotas to watch all the overpromising and delays.
Great video! I’ve been seeking to understand the challenge with a dry electrode process for months. Thanks!
0:40 _three years later and nearly none of the expectations have been realized_
You're talking about Elon Musk. Next, you'll tell me water is wet.
You didn't actually give any significant new information. Giga Austin has spent most of the last year building a new Cathode plant. Some of the equipment we know has been installed is stuff that not usually found in a Cathode production facility. (The weirdest one I heard of is presses to make tiles) My guess is that the techniques to produce a dry cathode has been solved, and the work lately has been to design mass production equipment to implement those techniques at scale. It's possible their idea won't work, but they certainly *seem* to be confident it will. The first indication that it is solved will be duplicating that plant in Germany and China.
They have hired Matt Tyler, a Milwaukee School of Engineering educated mechanical engineer, who has been working on battery cells for over a decade.
Most recently, he was working for Cambridge-based 24M, a battery manufacturer pioneering what it calls “semisolid electrodes” for lithium-ion batteries that came out of the MIT lab of Dr. Yet-Ming Chiang.
LFP cells have improved dramatically since 4680 was announced. Cold weather performance and weight issues have been solved. So why not make LFP in 4680 format.
Because the blade configuration is both cheaper to make and has better performance. Globally many Tesla's are fitted with blade batteries.
@@jimgraham6722I think Tesla uses more LFP batteries from CATL than from BYD
@@pauld3327 Not sure. I know they do use BYD blade cells including in some vehicles made in Germany. It is difficult however, to know the status as even owners (I am one) don't know exactly what cells are in their Model 3s. I know mine has LFP batteries but don't know whether they are BYD blades, CATLs or something else.
My Atto in the other hand has the exact battery specification in the owners manual spec sheet as follows, Man Traction Battery: 400V 61KWHr LFP 126S1P blade cells
Yes, the 4680 form factor was for structural/puncher resistance due to the chemical formula being more susceptible to thermal runaway. LFP does react as violently, as easily, thus no need for such strong individual battery containment.
@@jimgraham6722 AFAIK currently only CATL produces LFP cells for Tesla.
the point of things like battery day isn't about making promises and timelines. Its an advertisement to work at Tesla on groundbreaking stuff
The comparison shouldn't just be on range - the size of the battery matters as well. You can specifically consider range only provided the battery sizes are the same - you haven't confirmed that.
The size of the battery doesn't matter at all to a normal consumer. Just to geeks.
Elon has proven he is no genius. Wasting the advances of the 4680 is a great example of his poor decision making
Looks like the Model Y base now costs, 42990 exactly what you said it should cost
A new cell architecture by a new company takes about 5+ years. Tesla is solidly in middle of this.
Some technologies are taking 10+ years to play out
They are producing them in California - theres your problem.
Excellent content! I usually find massive errors in this kind of content, fantastic work factual and accurate
Other than its almost entirely speculation about where the problems are.
100 GWh x 300 = 3000 GWh?
LiCAP Technologies in Sacramento, CA (originally based out of China I think?) Has this dry electrode coating as well. They mainly make capacitors but the process can be applied to batteries which I believe they are doing.
Elons reveals not being realised ???? Nothing new about that
What a visually pleasant, interesting, and instructive video!
Bravo!! 😊👍
I've always been curious about why Tesla uses Chinese battery cells. It seems they can't increase production fast enough to compete on price. If it takes too long to reach their mass production goal, it could be a bigger problem when competing with Chinese EVs.
I believe Tesla uses CATL LFP batteries in certain models for certain markets because Tesla simply doesn’t make LFP batteries. They ran the numbers and decided it make more sense to buy those cells from CATL.
as soon as tesla signed up with china, thier days were numbered. eventually tesla will be bought by a chinese company
Given that 50%+ of Teslas are LFP batteries they are really sourcing third party batteries. LFP batteries are getting huge in Europe. Almost all affordable Chinese EV`s we get are equipped with LFP. The Tesla Standard range are also coming with LFP. These cars would probably not come over to US because of Tariffs
he simply wanted to pump the stock
So the Cybertruck will have 2170s most likely?
Everyone was adamant that the Cybertruck would have 4680s...
I remember elon said in a call right after the battery day that the dry electrode tech is hard and invited people to join tesla to help solve it.
@@slavko321 Elon was right.
I think Tesla may have overlooked a very fundamental part of the 4680. For example the 4680 is 5.5 times bigger than the 2170 battery and yes; theoretically designed to produce 5x more. But that bigger battery needs 5 times the space, and unless you make a bigger body vehicle, you won't get any more battery range and possibly less because of how the batteries fit into the same space.
It's not any more efficient, because the same chemicals are still in use to create the battery. If those batteries were the same size of the 2170, or the 18650 batteries and produced 5 times the power.. that's quite a different story. But fundamentally no change or real improvement. If anything the power density was decreased because you can't put as many batteries in the same space..
The geometric fill factor is the same, but there is less material being wasted because the case isn't proportionally thicker, which means that overall the battery should produce a slightly higher power density. Not that this has anything to do with anything. The simple fact is that Tesla isn't going to make more batteries than they can sell in their cars, so if they aren't integrating it into more than one model, yet, then there is no point in battery production exceeding the sales of that model. If that model is "overpriced", that means they are actually making more money on it than on the others. It may be true that the customer who buys that model may get shortchanged, but that's not a problem for Tesla. It's a problem for the buyer.
@@lepidoptera9337 agreed.. , because the material inside the battery to make it one.. is no more efficient than what they were already using.
Take a look at the range numbers in the models where the 4680 batteries are in play. The range has decreased instead of increased.
They stand to increase their profit margin by reducing the number of batteries from their size in the same or smaller space.
@@troublelessone7999 We shouldn't forget that Tesla also has a habit of restricting range by software. There is a good reason to do that initially: an artificially reduced range stresses the new batteries less, so if long term reliability issues should arise, they will be less severe and impact fewer customers (which avoids generating negative PR for Tesla). One has to wonder if some of that is going on here as well.
They will also have to tolerate some serious underutilization of the new battery production line for now because once they decide to put it in one of the updates of the better selling versions, they better have the battery manufacturing capacity available instantly to actually deliver or they will lose sales. So, yeah, a certain amount of production efficiency in the beginning is probably not even avoidable.
The problem with electric vehicles in general is many.
First there's the rareness of earth elements, the insane pollution it causes to make these vehicles compared to normal gasoline cars, the insanely high price for a vehicle not many can afford and the demand that will skyrocket because the 2030 ban on gasoline cars will be pushed through.
Second there's the power grid.
In the EU about 8% of all cars is electric, and the power grid already cannot contain this number.
After 2030, no new fossil fuel cars will be made, so people are forced to buy electric cars.
There are currently no plans on changing the power grid and no plans on compensating for anything. They just go and ban gasoline cars, end of plan. It's going to be a complete disaster.
And finally there's the safety.
Every now and then a EV catches fire, the fire can be contained because the gasoline car next to it can be doused by the fire department and the EV will just burn out controlled and it's fine.
But if every car was an EV?
1 EV catching fire, spreading to the next one, and then next one. These lithium fires are intensely hot, so spreading is easy.
A full car park of EV's will go up in flames, because nobody has technology to put out a lithium fire other than dumping the car in water and wait a week.
But as per usual, try to pick up a car that's burning hotter than the surface of the sun and find out.
Governments aren't thinking this through, and Elon Musk just wants to make money.
2:36 that’s not how you should compare them. You are doing price to range as a proportion but the model y is not 100% batteries therefore the 4680Y would always be more expensive. You need subtract the vehicle price before comparing numbers to know the true price to perfomance of 4680. So it’s unknowable if the 4680 are more expensive starting with the model y price
Tesla will work out the kinks. Come hell or high water.
'scaling up' is ALWAYS a struggle- DUHHHH! tell us something we DON'T know. elon ALWAYS makes aggressive time predictions- DUHHH... your 'epiphany' is about 12 years too late to be 'news'. but not only that: you missed the MOST incredible part of the 4680 & what maxwell accomplished with it.... an understandable mistake- because you- like most people do not follow EVERY battery research project with eager anticipation. (and before you get too high & mighty about 'tesla not solving dry lithium' blah blah blah- ANYONE else COULD have bought maxwell- but they DIDN'T!)
BEFORE tesla scouted maxwell & bought them- it was NOT the 'cheaper production' that first caught elon's eye- even though that was maxwell's ENTIRE goal for the project. the real eureka moment came when they first assembled a dry cell & tested it- and discovered, after hundreds of hours of intense charge & discharge- that something was in fact MISSING from dry rolled cells that would (by now... ) be present in ALL other cells, wet assembled- THE FORMATION OF DENDRITES. a very HAPPY, unintended consequence, INDEED! in fact- those first test cells? STILL SHOW NO SIGNS OF DEGREDATION. best estimates at this point? the 4680 will last 3.5 million miles or 50 years! that is what had EVERYONE calling it 'the million mile battery'. apparently- it's the introduction of the solvent to the lithium that 'kick starts' the formation of the dendrites.
so what happened next? tesla buys the company one day- and by midnight THAT VERY NIGHT... maxwell's website went DARK of ANY mention of these events. ZIP. nada. why? let's just assume for a minute that while everyone sits on the edge of their seats on battery day, 2020- anxiously listening for a taste of "the million mile battery"- and tesla lets that cat out of the bag. then what? if I was ready to buy an EV? what do you think I would do? buy one that would last to 400,000 miles and cost $12k for a pack replacement? or WAIT and buy the one I KNEW would soon be available & likely last OVER 1 million miles, then cost 8 or 10k to replace at life's end? mean time- tesla sales TANK while everyone waits for THAT battery. NO. REVERSE, UNO- enter the elon musk strategy.
one day at a time, a few dozen cells at a time faster- 4680 cells will one day, break that magic barrier where they outpace 2170 kwh's per day of production. then, tesla will 'shift' over... AWAY from the older tabbed cells. there'll be some hype- but not much, as prices will- as you say- remain only slightly lower- but then, eventually, they'll COMPLETELY abandon the tabbed cells as the 4680's shift into high gear. then one day- probably around 2028- some youtuber will post a screen shot of a model Y / 4680 pack with 300,000 miles... and NO DEGREDATION! that's when the lid BLOWS off the automotive world. even if robotaxi isn't live by then? WILL NOT MATTER. cars that can outlast their drivers? what's the resale on something like that? I'll tell you: the resale will be: EXACTLY what you paid for it NEW.
@7:47 the graph says "cost breakdown." Do you have a reference for the actual material percentages?
Awesome video BTW. Thanks!
Not to take anything away from Tesla’s many accomplishments but. . most reputable OEMs won’t say things until some measure of confidence is built up regarding manufacturability. FSD, the 4680, and now the Optimus robot- all talked up way too early.
Cannabis hemp makes the best battery we have to go to an entirely different approach to batteries, natural organic. APR4USA 🇺🇸
i find it funny people thought tesla had a chance in hell of becoming some super battery producing company. its taken them 20 years to produce what normal car manufacturing companies produce per year, and thats thier actual speciality.
I've been saying this for years now, and the Tesla fanboys keep acting like the 4680 is being used and in the cars that people have bought. Yet, they never actually show any videos of an actual Tesla with the 4680 battery pack. Fanboys refer to whatshisname when he tore apart the 4680 battery pack. BUT, nobody drove a car to his shop with the battery pack functioning as there was never a video proving it can work. He just ran his mouth about how wonderful the design is, etc. He's not much more someone trying to protect his investment in TSLA stock. Hes pretty much a fake IMO and should stop making his phony videos. Anyway, until I can see an actual Tesla on the road using the 4680 battery pack, I will never change my mind that Battery Day was a hoax.
Elon Musk is and always has been a flim-flam man. Like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman, he attracts and excites a crowd, whipping them up into an ecstatic frenzy of anxious anticipation. Anticipation of seeing his extraordinary claims and promises come to fruition, as they willingly empty their wallets. Only later, after he's skipped town, do they realize they've been duped. Elon Musk is the personification of "bait and switch".
He really doesn't seem to be very smart either. Who overpays $44 billion for Twitter, and then only nine days later, fires 3,700 employees. And then goes on to issue his infamous old school, shoot from the hip, ultimatum to the remaining employees to either agree "to become more hardcore and work long hours at high intensity", or leave the company with three months severance pay. After which, unsurprisingly, 75% of the remaining 3,700 employees quit. Can you imagine being one of the few remaining employees expected to live up to such an unrealistic and unsustainable standard? It's not exactly the best way to boost morale and foster creativity, I'd think. It's one thing for him to say he supposedly did it once at Tesla. It's quite another thing to mandatorily impose it onto his remaining few Twitter employees. The difference is he owned Tesla and did it to save his company and that's fine. His remaining Twitter employees don't own the company and aren't doing it voluntarily, I'm sure. As such, they don't have near the vested interest in Twitter that he had at Tesla. They can and should quit and go elsewhere where they won't be subjected to the abuse and constant fear of knowing they're in Musk's crosshairs. Now, if any Twitter employees want to do so voluntarily, that's fine also. It just goes to show that Musk seems to lack any real social or "people" skills. I'm not a psychologist, but he appears to exhibit antisocial tendencies. It's not surprising though, since I seriously doubt whether Musk has spent much time actually being someone else's employee.
For the sake of his poor remaining employees, I hope he steps down as CEO. I'm sure they feel that the best Elon Musk at Twitter is no Elon Musk at Twitter.
It's not hard... Elon Musk only cares about money. He makes his money through the share price of Tesla. The announcements he makes are aspirations specifically thought up to create hype which then drives share price. A tiny fraction of them become viable. Stop falling for his BS over and over again.
I just hope Tesla shareholders can cut Elon off as the CEO. If the guy has time to be the CEO of 3+ companies, that job is clearly not that hard.
I would never buy a car where the battery cells are glued all together, totally unrepairable and unrepurposable for e. g. Stationary storage. That is a no go. That is comparable to a gasoline motor where the cylinder head and also the water pump is welded to the block. You would not buy this either. And Remember: Even the contactors are glued together with the cells. So a simple defect in a contactor-Relay for 100$, which has happened on all battery manufacturers in the past, will make a battery pack for 15000$ useless. That is crazy.
I believe at this point in time, we've come to understand that Tesla was milking the 'cheaper' Model Y as long as it could. When it was time to lower prices to keep up their marketshare, they did because they could. The cheapest Model Y has been selling like hotcakes and although people buy a significantly lesser car (weaker sound system and battery) it still 'feels' like a more expensive Model Y.
I wonder why they don’t just Xerox the partials onto the anode. Old tech, common as mud in office spaces, maintained by functional idiots, and dry, very dry.
Oh, I am pretty sure the problem is that Patent expired decades ago, and therefore there is no industrial protection of profit margins.
The problem is designers and engineers these days are all focused on the next worst thing, rather than taking the last centuries most reliable and ubiquitous solutions to a whole other level.
So I've read a few comments, no one has mentioned the asian maker of batteries that will be making 4680 ones. I forget who, but they are coming online and will expand.
How about a vehicle that uses very little green electricity to generate it's fuel and superlight body but doesn't try to use batteries of any kind or electric motors tu push a 2+ ton box down the road ? How about an air drag better than that of Aptera ? How about a range of thousands of miles ? No one would listen to this obviously ... Crazy rich human like people that are going in the wrong direction entirely if not just because they still promote a car that looks like a car :)
your logic for the price difference is acutely wrong. The only production cost decrease is in the battery cells. The production cost of the remainder of the car has not changed. So if the price of the battery pack is 10k for example then a price reduction of 3k makes more sense. I dont see how they can decrease the production cost of the battery by 70% to lower the price by 7k+. Yet
TRICK OR TREAT, SIR,
DEAR ALL THE PEOPLE OF OUR WHOLEWORLD IN NOWADAY, IF WE ALL THE WHOLEWORLD DO NOT NEEDED TO GET EXTINCTION ANYTIME WITHIN THIS YEAR, 2023, SIR.
There's so much innovation going on in battery tech. It would not surprise me if Tesla went off on a tangent exploring new battery tech and that fact maybe slowing down the building of new production lines. You don't want to ramp up production and build huge factories on a battery tech if you see new tech just around the corner that is going to make your current factories obsolete before they have even finished being built. It's a big tradeoff, you don't want to wait too long because you need batteries now, but you don't want to jump in early on some tech that gets replaced a year later.
BYD and CATL are already reaching parity with non Lithium or Cobalt containing batteries while Tesla is doubling down on this weird bet they made on bigger cylindrical batteries using a process that has yet to be proven to be mass scaled. This battery might become Tesla's biggest failure.
No point in explaining that to these idiot Americans.
They never look beyond their own borders and only believe the crap propaganda that their Govt and Media tell them.
It is like Pravda from the 1970's.
Your senators and hedge fund trillion dollar profolio own it, thus will never allow it to go down. 😅
Oh man I so love the smelly, polluting and cancer causing characteristics of fossil fuel powered vehicles. (sarcasm may be present here 😮)
What? Elon lied? Shocking. I am gonna get in my Cybertruck and drive over there and complain.
Sounds like a big Thank You may be owed to those early 4680 battery beta-testing guinea pigs
They are still to heavy
I think tesla misscalculated how many cheap y:s will be sold so the bigger cells werent needed as much as they thought
Tesla’s growth projections like a lot of Musk’s predictions are very overstated.