The science, money, and politics behind the lunar rover
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
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We drove on the Moon because Americans always drive instead of walk. It is who we are.
not wrong!
Haha this 🔥
If the Soviets had landed on the moon first we would have deep caverns connected by metro trains (?)
@@federicomarintucit’s probably there, just has no active stations 😂
This is the first time I’ve heard the phrase half shirt… I’ve always called them short sleeves. Half shirt conjuring up the idea of NASA scientists with bare midriffs, showing off their toned six packs at work.
Looking for a last-minute Halloween costume? Sexy NASA Engineer.
Buff scientists just mogging the moon
its funny because in south east asia we call short sleeves Half shirt and shorts , Half pant
Imagine the coffee spills, that's a whole other level of risk. Just a bunch of dudes with pink stomachs holding their cups far away from their bodies
11:22 Props to the guy from Bendix driving the prototype rover through a muddy bog in a full suit and tie. 😂
It's 106 miles to Chicago, he's got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, and he's wearing sunglasses.
Me on hearin about lunar worms: We were gonna dune the moon?!?!
Spicy.
THE DUST MUST FLOW
The Moon is a lot like Arrakis. Totally dry except for frozen water at the poles. Fine dust that gets everywhere into everything. Need a suit to survive more than a few moments on its surface.
Not the bore worms!
We were gonne Doone...
On Apollos 15-17, the film canisters were stored in the service module and couldn't be retrieved from the cabin. So they had to do deep space EVAs to retrieve them to bring them back to earth, and the astronauts are just NOT attached to anything aside from their life support umbilicals. Those are truly the most stressful manned space videos I've ever seen.
Yes, sadly the three Astronauts who did these unique EVAs are no longer with us.
Phil’s content is always out of this world.. 🌙
11:45 "For size purposes, the lunar rover popped out of the lunar module. It unfolded. Everyone was hoping that the industry would expand in the same way. Start small, but get bigger when it was needed." My girlfriend often says the same thing about me.
"don't judge me, it's cold on the moon!"
@@PhilEdwardsIncOnly in the shadows. It's a bit toasty in the sunlight with no atmosphere.
Another factor behind the lunar rover was p.r. Even as an elementary school kid in 1971 I was aware that people were getting bored with the moon landings. When they unveiled the lunar rover it felt a lot like they'd added a new character to the show to keep the ratings from sagging. As your video reflects, it was sold to us as the first step toward permanent colonies on the moon. Which never happened because unless your plan is to terraform the moon or use it as a launchpoint to Mars-both unlikely and prohibitively expensive-there is no reason to live on the moon, unless it's for the great view of Earth.
So yes, I do see your point about Elon Musk-he does have the spirit of Von Braun in him, in more ways than one. But I don't believe Mars is his ultimate objective. Rather, like Von Braun, he has two separate agendas that have found a way to serve each other. One is the urge to dominate space, the other is to dominate folks on Earth. This guy talks to Putin every day, and something tells me they're not just talking about Mars. Utopians and totalitarians get along a lot better than is healthy for the rest of us: the connecting thread is the will to direct history instead of simply letting people go about their lives. Of course, like Von Braun, Musk is blandly indifferent to consequences: as Mort Sahl quipped, the title of Von Braun's memoir should have been "I Aim For the Stars, But Sometimes I Hit London."
i think this is well put!
_"When they unveiled the lunar rover it felt a lot like they'd added a new character to the show to keep the ratings from sagging..."_ Nice idea, but complete nonsense. The rover was planned *long* before the first lunar landing ever took place. It was _always_ part of the Apollo program plan, its deployment had *nothing* to do with "ratings", it was simply part of the (long-since planned) expansion of the of the Apollo program. The early Apollo missions didn't have the lift-power or lander design to support a rover, it's really that simple.
@@guidojones6107 Of course not. When has NASA ever done anything for P.R. value?
@@host_theghost507 That non-reply didn't change anything with respect to your completely incorrect hypothesis about the deployment of the LRV. Sorry, you are utterly and completely wrong in this case, get used to it.
@@guidojones6107 I can see you're a guy who likes to argue with strangers. Yes, I know that NASA had been discussing a lunar vehicle for years-we both watched the same video. I also know that NASA's survival has depended on publicity since the days of ticket tape parades and Von Braun on Disney's wonderful world of color. Interest in Apollo was flagging in 1971 and the p.r. blitz was massive. Also ineffective. I know. I was there.
If you'd read what I wrote instead of being the "well, actually" guy, you might have seen that my actual point was that while Elon Musk might talk about leading us to Mars, his real designs are right here on earth. The guys who worked on Apollo were idealists but the people who funded Apollo saw it as a battlefield in the Cold War. To borrow from Frank Zappa, space travel is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex. There's a direct line from Von Braun's V2 rockets to Elon Musk's regular calls to Putin. There's no separating Musk the utopian from Musk the authoritarian. They are the same guy. If you want to get angry about something, get angry about that.
Actually, the comparison of Musk to VonBraun is perfect, (hu)men so single minded in their desires that they would compromise _literally_ everything else to achieve their own goals with wonton disregard to anyone with any different views and any legitimate concerns.
yeah it's tough to know what's going on in their minds, but they did strike me as having a lot in common
Musk isn't single-minded about space. He is single minded about HIMSELF. Everything he does to enrich himself and amplify himself. Von Braun literally was a rocket scientist. Musk is a billionaire that buys up existing companies, slaps his name on them, usually runs them into the ground, and then pats himself on the back.
Kind of like Trump.
I intensely dislike Musk and Sam Altman, one of Altman’s comments really makes some sense: “Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it.”
@@a-_-s Hah, that quote is spot-on.
@@a-_-s YAWN.
Musk was great enough when his politics aligned with yours.
The moment that stopped, then the "good people" became deranged and then projected that insanity onto Musk.
2:54 you fit perfectly into the nasa engineer look :)
This is by far the most thought-provoking video of yours I've had the pleasure to watch. I'll be thinking about this for days
thanks appreciate it
@PhilEdwardsInc the original commentator is completely wrong. All your videos are thought-provoking and shockingly well produced. I applaud you 👏 and the dedication you show in your shows !
Loving these Sunday stories 😁
Another great one, Phil!
👑🙏
You miiight want to wear a mask around that moon dust…
lol i was thinking this after i inhaled it...hahaha....oh well.... (please feel free to quote this comment reply in my obituary)
We are all made of stardust.
@@PhilEdwardsInc It is super bad for your lungs (if it is a real analog). Like little knives.
@@PhilEdwardsInc "The bean counters told me we literally could not afford to buy seven dollars worth of moon rocks, much less seventy million. Bought 'em anyway. Ground 'em up, mixed em into a gel. And guess what? Ground up moon rocks are pure poison. I am deathly ill."
Cave Johnson lives rent free in my skull and sometimes he comes out. This is such an occasion. Thank you for the reminder folks.
came here to say this ], deffinitly really bad for your lungs
Every time Phil mentioned the Space Worm, my mind would play the Dune Theme.
Awesome Video :)
That was a SMOOOTH ad transition.
You even lamp-shaded that it does not fit in with the overall tone of the video!
Love the add length bar. Bless you
I don’t think this is a hot take at all. Political and financial motives are really the only drivers for doing things in space.
I’m such a space nerd-I follow it all. Most of the channels I subscribe to on this platform exclusively report on space topics.
I’ve been saying all along that there are two main reasons Elon is doing what he's doing.
The first is regulations. He’s supporting the candidate who promises him the power to slash regulations and weaken regulators like the FAA and EPA. Did you see that full-page statement Elon had SpaceX post on their website? To quote, "The FAA has stifled progress of both SpaceX and NASA with needless environmental impact statements and other regulations." So, when a presidential candidate says he’ll make Elon head of some committee or group overseeing “government efficiency,” of course Elon is going to support that candidate. That’s his main political motivation.
The second reason is financial. He’s aware of the promises that same candidate has made about cutting taxes for big companies and wealthy individuals.
So, just like von Braun used the Nazi party to advance his rocket research before switching to the U.S. government to continue it, Elon is using a presidential candidate to further his own goals.
I’m not saying any of this is good or right-I really dislike what Elon has become. But it was probably inevitable. I also make a point of separating Elon from his employees. Whenever I post about SpaceX, I always get a few comments like, "How can you support that man?" I’ve started replying with an analogy: "Blaming the employees, engineers, and scientists at SpaceX for Elon’s actions is like blaming Amazon warehouse workers for something Jeff Bezos said or did."
Your take is spot-on, in my opinion.
Awesome video, as always.
And, yes, I refused to say his name. He's just "the candidate" to me. He is also so selfish that he doesn't even see that Elon is using him. Anyway, I don't want to get _too_ political. But yes, I went out of my way to avoid boosting the candidate's name in any kind of algorithmic metric.
Explain how buying Twitter and turning it into a yt supremacist hotbed of hate and transphobia has anything to do with getting to mars.
No one read all that @@xliquidflames
culture wars are pretty good distractions.
@@xliquidflames In case it wasn't clear to anyone, he's talking about Elon's endorsement of Donald Trump.
Great video, Phil! And as a space buff since elementary school I really enjoyed this one.
And one thing I enjoyed in particular was when you covered all the different NASA centers, which I don’t think is well known. Personally, I think having all these centers is one of NASA’s strengths. For example, one of the reasons NASA has had so much success with robotic planetary exploration is that they have multiple centers, including the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Goddard, Ames, and APL (Advanced Physics Laboratory). They often compete for funding but they also work collaboratively with other NASA centers and international space agencies.
And while America’s debt to von Braun and the V2 is fairly well known I don’t think most people know the V2 is basically the ancestor of all launch vehicles. For example, while the Soviets didn’t get von Braun and other top scientists they got nearly all the engineers and V2 hardware. Scott Manley had a recent video where he showed how similar the engines used by the current Russian Soyuz booster are the the V2’s engines. This would make a great subject for a video. 😀
When you begin to touch your heart or let your heart be touched, you begin to discover that it's bottomless.
I love those videos on space exploration
I think you were off in just one aspect: Monetary incentives are not tantamount to the political aspects. They take precedence.
I second that shout out of 'Across the Airless Wilds'.
That book is so well written, researched, and enjoyable to read. Id recommend that book to anyone who is interested in NASA space history and engineering, there is plenty of technical detail, a good amount of biography, and just enought politics in there to really give you a sense of how much they were winging it back then!
Interesting hot take on Elon. Hard to know at what level he is evaluating any given topic/decision. The products and systems his companies are building are incredible. The man, his actions, and behavior are a little more challenging to accept.
yeah i agree - ultimately the inner lives of him, von braun (everyone) are kinda opaque. i just wanted to at least mash some puzzle pieces together
@@PhilEdwardsInc that’s fair I guess. He and Von Braun are to me amoral chaotic, also conventionally called evil. It helps to have a thought for good vs evil, even if at time that’s a simplistic worldview. I think a lot of people are over-complicating both men’s motivations and goals, maybe because they don’t know the biographies deeply. For Elon, Jill Lepore did an outstanding ten-part audio biography of Elon’s family for BBC a few years ago, which is well worth the time invested.
@@acchaladka I think most people are overestimating most peoples motivations tbh. And they simplify them. Is advancing SpaceX the goal of his political stuff? I'm sure it didn't hurt, but as humans we tend to not have singular motivations in favor of something.
Across the Airless Wilds is a fantastic book!
I’d never thought about Von Braun having these similar points with Musk, but I definitely see your point, thank you for making this Phil!
Very cool video!
Fun thing is as we explore what navigation on the Moon & Mars for any future missions, dead reckoning is basically still where we’re at, until we send navigation satellites
I love that you even make ad breaks enjoyable; another great video!
I was just watching the Apollo 11 documentary, finished with tears, came to UA-cam, and saw this in my notifications. Okay, let’s see what this is about :)
With the realization of ones own potential and self-confidence in ones ability, one can build a better world.
I love that you included audio of the test pilot astronauts geeking out on geology. IIRC they got a lot of training to identify rocks, so they were genuinely excited at their finds.
i was really charmed to hear it on tape too
Damn!!! This one tickled me in a weird way. Fascinating stuff Mr. Phil.
Amazing video, I'd love to see more videos about space from you!
Another surreal twist: your bit characters exist separately from your normal self. Were they created for the bit, or have they always existed?
they are locked away, relatively safely
Nothing ever goes away until it has taught us what we need to know.
Excellent timing on the video, I was just showing my dad the video about the Americans suburbs. He found it pretty hilarious, but then again, my hasn't been around the world to know enough and found such a concept bizarre.
There's so much beautiful Apollo content and not enough videos about it ❤ rad video
it really is crazy how much info there is - from the national archives and nasa technical report servers alone...
Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
I really hope that dust isn't as dangerous as real moon dust
same
Finally!!! Hearing about someone that actually understands the politics around space and NASA. If you understand this example back in the 60's, the issues going on now with Artemis is just ridiculous.
15:21 OMG that editing is so good!
40 million for a car that did something vs 290+ Million for an MBT-70 that didn’t hit production and only had 14 or so built.
interesting wiki page on that, thx
I joined a Spaces event with him and Cathy Wood and he tied every single point about crypto back to space somehow. It was his number one thing on his mind the entire talk and the talk had nothing to do with space.
The idea of a new frontier on Mars has an incredible historical parallel with the discovery and emigration to the New World, America. So much perceived potential and freedom, albeit at enormous cost and technical difficulty.
I never thought I'd get an important political insight from a channel that specialise in quirky history but now I think about I probably should have.
1:59 "No sir, I didn't see you playing with your dolls again!"
4:16 Phil Prime cinnamon-challenging the regolith, lol.
Pretty sure Andy Griffith went back up there and brought the rover home..
Wonderful storytelling as always.
I was not aware of the business driven aspect of some of the early space programs. Interesting to learn.
It’s also funny to me that we’ve had people saying “we’ll have people living on the moon/mars” for decades, but nothing has happened. Maybe Artemis will actually change that? But I also wonder whether we actually NEED to go multi-planetary.
Cody from Cody’sLab just uploaded a nice thought piece video about this recently!
All we really know about the moon comes from landing sites, which are relatively few. There could be very different terrains. How does catching a booster get us closer to the Moon? Musk is behind in the HLS milestones by years. Don't get me wrong, it was cool. So was the rover. I always go back to the Apollo 17 traverse when they found orange regolith. Good video anyway, I always enjoy them.
Well, I think your estimation of Elons motivation to throw all his weight behind a dangerous candidate is more generous than mine, but definitely fascinating story about the rovers!
"I think your estimation of Elons motivation to throw all his weight behind a dangerous candidate "
Funny, Musk didnt support Harris.
@@WillmobilePlus exactly. You got it.
"No you" is all these weirdo cultists have to say ^
Harris and the media crew have spent the last few months directly calling Trump and his supporters Nazis and “existential threats”, and just yesterday claimed his rally in NY is literally a recreation of a Nazi gathering. You are deranged and will have no place in our nation’s great future
I have to ask because I've rewatched the ending five times. So, we didn't go back to the moon after three space missions with a new technology that allowed us to travel further because they realized it was a waste of money and time after those trips? We didn't learn anything new beyond what we already knew? Did I understand that correctly? My interpretation is that, after so many trips to the moon, we hit a wall in terms of what we could learn with the resources we had. Spending more money on space/moon exploration became useless since it didn’t benefit the country or its citizens or society as a whole.
yeah in the most blunt tldr way possible, i think it's that the soviets wound down their moon efforts so the us did too
@@PhilEdwardsInc Thanks appreciate it, so it goes back to being a political issue more than anything else.
@@PhilEdwardsInc the soviets actually kept going until 1974, it was mainly Nixon, public support, and the vietnam war that killed NASAs moon landing program
Cool, always thought it was just to get around faster.
i know i'd never considered the life support issue
Someone at NASA was a Dune fan obviously
gaze upon the contractor proposal in all its glory: ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19660022562
Nope dune buggy. Fan. They designed and built rover in 17. Months at GM
@@gerry-p9x I'm talking about the worm
@@PhilEdwardsInc This is incredible 😂
Note, even in 1972, when we stopped going to the Moon, we did not have GPS on the ground; so it was not a solution for anyone.
Edit: I generally agree with your take by the way.
yes yes, i should have mentioned that we also couldn't use a compass! they had some really cool hacks to figure out where they were, including an on-console sundial
Great, as always
17:24 Hotter then the extremely cold rocket fuel used in rockets.
perhaps the image of a fire wasn't the useful context clue i thought it was
@@PhilEdwardsInc Nah, I'm just "erm actually-ing" for the sake of "erm actually-ing. Honestly don't think it's that hot of a hot take, you gave wonderful context to show how space exploration often has political motivation, such justifying it. I feel like the framing Musk's political actions in the context of space exploration is really insightful. Great video!
What a great subject! Loved it.
I really enjoyed this video! I was ten at the time of that landing, and I wanted to be an astronaut so bad I could taste it. I’m 63 now, and I write science fiction professionally. And my very first story - written when I was 9 - was called The Mouse Who Went To The Moon. (To see if it was made of green cheese.)
was it green cheese in the end?
The end summary boils down to something I always have to point out to people. There is a difference between technical viability and economic viability. Can we put a chicken on the Moon? Yes. Economically, I don't think it would have many backers.
I got targeted adds for Swiffer Sweeper after watching this video. Excellent.
lol i should get mine out now to clean up
2:45 that chinese truck lift to sway the tail of the truck to fit tight corners lol
There is clearly something going on with Musks Mars obsession, it's the whole reason for creating SpaceX. Even in the book Liftoff, about the really early years of SpaceX, he is already talking about Mars. But there is also so much more to this guy, it's really hard to say where this sudden political activism comes from.
That's a good Science and Technology Studies treatment of the topic, as opposed to just the conventional History of Science way
One interesting thing is where they bought titanium for those rivets
Great video.
I was literally sitting down with my dinner like "damn I really fancy a vid by that guy who did the Mcdonalds fries video whose name I keep forgetting". lo and behold, you deliver! (sorry, I'm terrible with names lol)
lol i will take the fry guy moniker
It would be great to see a collab between you and Amy Shira Teitel about topics like this, she’s an expert in the history and context around space travel in that exploration phase.
please keep us updated if you get sick from moon dust 😬
🤮🌕
Should've worn a N95 mask
Silicosis
@@kkkk-wg6je Tons of workers are suffering from this, some needlessly even when provided with a mask but just not wearing them.
Last week I was standing in a field in line for a haunted house (like 30 miles north of Richmond, the effects were cool). Everyone else started to look up because Starlink was passing by and I haven't felt that disgusted in a long time. In the distance we could see the green yellow glow of the city but the light pollution was low enough for stars to be visible ... only to be abruptly overshadowed by an artificial ring of satellites. If anyone else had put them up there I would have been irked but thought it was kind of cool, but because Elon put them up there it felt like a super invasive vanity project that everyone on the planet is forced to look at every few hours until they either fall out of orbit or the vanity of their creator wipes everyone off the planet. If it was ANYONE else wanting to send people to Mars It would be a slight irritant but kind of cool. As for Von Braun, sure he was a Nazi but I've never run into any evidence of him being as ethically bankrupt as Elon.
i saw this as well- was confused completely before i knew
@PhilEdwardsInc apparently it goofs up telescope calibration when it crosses in front of them.
What’s even sicker is that most of the people who want to use satellite based Internet are easily within the reach of terrestrial Internet, perhaps at a lower cost. Many of them are actually in cities. We could probably benefit by stringing more fiber around our rural areas, but that’s not really all that S3XY.
I suspect my Grandpa is somewhere in that photo at Huntsville.
There is a long-term pattern of Musk having a libertarian streak. I absolutely believe an element of musk's political action is in the interest of advancing space but I also believe he supports those political stances sincerely unfortunately.
Love your stuff, Phill but I believe your take doesn't hold up to scrutiny, I'd recommend reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Musk.
You'll quickly understand that while space is indeed very important to Musk and part of his life philosophy, it absolutely does not explain his hard right political turn.
That's fair! That said, I'm not amazed by Isaacson based on his other books. I once did a super detailed video about Leonardo da Vinci and Isaacson's recounting of the invention was off in a bunch of ways.
@@PhilEdwardsInc I hear you on that! Isaacson is not perfect, but the level of access he had to Musk was pretty unprecedented. I'm no fan of Elon but I found it pretty insightful into his psyche.
He's a deeply scarred man in many ways, from his brutal (and incestuous) father to his complex relationships with his many children, especially his trans daughter, who he believes "turned trans" in order to spite him. I think when you look at his family history, his rebellious streak, a daughter who's life clearly makes him uncomfortable and his wounded inner child, these were major contributors to his right turn. And then buying Twitter and turning into open season for right wing disinformation surely didn't help.
@@jigielniki just struggle to believe he cares about his children very much considering the number of them and his lifestyle, ya know? they seem more likely to be used as a tool. very mean thing for me to speculate, but seems reasonable
@@PhilEdwardsInc oh we're in agreement there! I don't think he cares deeply about his kids. I don't think he's turning right in a bid of caring for them.
I've played No Man's Sky. I understand the importance of having something to drive on a moons surface.
As a space nerd, and also a politics nerd you've hit the nail on the head. There is (probably) small subsect of space enthusiasts online who support elon (and by extension trump) because he is getting stuff done in space.
If you expand it to techno enthusiasts in general, I would say it's quite a large population.
Trump ran on removing NASA in 2016. He did his best to gut NASA’s Earth Science division once he got in. Pence was the guy working to help NASA during his term, and he encouraged a mob to hang him.
Harris is the only candidate on the ballot that’s actually worked to help NASA. Elon isn’t interested in anything other than convincing young brilliant minds to join his Mars cult, because then they’ll accept his poor working conditions and low pay.
Facts. I am not American and don't care about who wins in the election. But trump winning will boost starship development. I hope he wins.
Thats an amazing book. Super recommended ❤
For what it's worth, I've had the same hypothesis as you for at least the past week. Kind of seems like poor judgement, especially since Trump is not guauranteed to win. Not to mention, personally, the idea of having someone in charge who is _explicitly_ for sale to large donors makes me nervous.
seems like a very high risk strategy - i'm almost reminded of SBF making crazy bets
About the hot take, I think there is something to what you're saying, but Musk has clearly expressed political views that arguably have nothing to do with rockets, like his public feud with his trans daughter, or what he has said and done with Twitter. As someone who has been (probably a bit too foolhardily) ride or die for Mars for decades, I'm really struggling with Musk. I'm genuinely excited about Starship and the potential to unlock the solar system, but I'm sickened by Musk's actions and words (and not just that he has affiliated himself with the Trump campaign-most billionaires have for obvious tax and regulatory reasons), he does appear to be on the faschy side of politics.
Okay so hear me out. I do believe there is such a thing as Martian politics. It's nascent of course, but there has been a community advocating for human colonisation of the Moon and Mars for decades. I joined the Mars Society as a founding member in 1998, though I haven't been active in a long while. At the founding convention, there was an open mic night, and I brought up to the group (several hundred people) that space exploration and colonisation needed all sorts of people. I was in a room of like 95% white men, most over the age of 40. I was 22 at the time, and I got soundly booed for suggesting that the group reach out for a little more diversity. My main point was that this should be a project for humanity, and not a specific and narrow demographic of people. Luckily the creator of the Mars Society, Robert Zubrin, promptly backed me up, and the crowd instantly grew thoughtful because they all admired him, but I'm not sure that made a lick of difference in the long term. I was also there to present a paper on the ethics of terraforming, where I took a 'conservative' view. We should not embark on extensive terraforming until we have thoroughly surveyed the planet for microbial life so that we know what impact we might have, and make an informed decision about what to do next. Again, not received well. I was and am in the Red 'conservative' camp, against 'progressive' Greens (Musk is probably here) who want drive straight and fast to a colonised solar system. It's not a huge political rift yet, but it is a rift and will probably map out the political divide people will be on once (and if) colonisation begins in earnest.
And in this context, Musk scares me. There is not a lot of introspection on his part. He has made his decision about what direction he is going to go in, and isn't looking back, and he has no one to tell him 'no'. Which...is fine for SpaceX now. But what happens in the future if one or a few (very capitalistic) companies control the colonisation process? What happens to workers on Mars or the Moon or Titan? What happens to colonists under a system where they are controlled entirely by oligarchs? It can't just be a handful of voices making decisions. I know a lot of people think colonisation is silly and improbable (or resources should not be devoted to it at all), but this does appear to be happening. Do we really want the process to be solely in the hands of filthy wealthy oligarchs?
i think its really cool that you advocated for those things in the face of dissenting voices back then. its kinda inspiring to me
@KatharineOsborne -- And now you've got me thinking ... have you read _A City On Mars_ by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith? (Kelly being a biologist/adjunct professor, and Zach being the SMBC guy.) They bring up similar concerns about space colonization -- who will own/control things, and how much might different powers on Earth end up fighting over it to everyone's detriment -- that all too often get overlooked or handwaved among space enthusiasts like themselves.
Not to mention unsolved _biological_ problems they get into too, like:
- Can human babies develop properly in much lower gravity, like on the Moon or Mars? How different will their physical development be, and could it keep them from visiting higher-gravity environments (like Earth) later?
- How differently will babies' immune systems develop among the fewer and less-diverse microbes of a small, sealed space colony? Could it cause them trouble (via allergies, or lack of immunity to other places' germs) if they want to travel to Earth or to other space colonies?
...Among others.
_(reposted with some edits)_
@@sopphi Thanks, that means a lot. ❤
@@AaronOfMpls I'm aware of it but haven't read it yet. Yeah there's a huge amount of obstacles to successful colonisation (we need to use a different word because that one is so loaded). There will be failure, but I don't think there's anything that can't technically be solved. I also think a lot about things like really basic stuff like cleaning which on Mars and it's toxic regolith would be very difficult (and worse on the Moon). If not handled well it could doom a colony, so figuring it out is actually as important as successfully travelling to Mars.
I've thought about starting a UA-cam channel where I write a short stories set on an established Mars colony (with recurring characters) and each story explores one of these basic issues and how it could be dealt with. The video would cover my thought process in solving the issue, and the story would be extracurricular. I have a lot of experience writing stories but a channel feels daunting, but I don't know, maybe there is an audience for that sort of thing.
Biggest fears of childhood? Black holes and quicksand. No wonder NASA was worried about lunar quicksand.
Elon didn't buy Twitter to go to Mars.
i wonder if he's 4d chessing it (and maybe jn a silly way of course)
@@PhilEdwardsInc I think you're underestimating just how far off the rails one party has gone.
A guy that starts an Internet company, and parlays that into an electric car company and rocket company, and dreams of going to Mars, and sells a flamethrower on a lark, isn't exactly the kind of "modern man" that believes in "trust and safety" when it comes to online speech.
@@chrimony oh i mean id say the cynical interpretation is that he wanted to control politics and speech to build more rockets (which i sort of believe). like a paper clip maximizing ai....
@@chrimony Where did Phil say anything about trust and safety and online speech? *IF* you work under the premise that Elon is doing everything that he is because his one singular goal is Mars - it's incredibly easy to justify his purchase and treatment of Twitter. It allows him to control the narrative, it allows him to use one the largest social media platforms on the internet to spread whatever message he wants. He can use it propagandize, he can use it to help the political party he's hitched his wagon to - in hopes of, I suppose, gaining more control in government to enable his end goal...Which is Mars.
Now personally I think Elon is entirely bought in to the culture war, and most of his actions can be explained by his completely unreasonable and irrational fear of "wokeness", but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he so strongly attached himself to Trump because he thinks he can have out sized influence that way. He obviously doesn't see Trump as the threat that many of us do, but being the richest man in the world helps in that regard...
@@PhilEdwardsInc That's beyond cynical into baroque conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor applies.
Giant rides are what you take, driving on the moon. I hope my wheels don't break, driving on the moon. We could drive forever, driving on the moon. We could live together, driving on, driving on the moon.
Excellent.
14:52 we did not even have GPS on earth back then. It was around late 80's that GPS is accesible to the public.
Normal tires will work just fine without atmospheric pressure.
The spice must flow.
A lesson as to why one shouldn´t think and arrive. What am I saying? _Of course_ we should go -- in style!
Elon recently got addicted to Diablo, no joke, there is a recording of his gaming stream, and he doesn't stop playing during a SpaceX meeting where engineers are reporting about the booster catch. I think that should be a much bigger story. We have audio from a SpaceX highest-level executive meeting because the largest shareholder was playing a video game and wouldn't stop. Imagine being an engineer and having to report to a boss who is literally playing games.
SBF style!
This is one instance where I will concede that a bicycle would not work.
I don't think Von Braun had much of a choice about joining the SS. Thankfully our political climate is different than being under a tyrant.
it was concealed until after his death i believe. he also ran a brutal v2 program (by choice or not)
@PhilEdwardsInc If you ever visit Eurupe, you can visit the Mittelbau Dora remembrance site to see how the V2's were produced in the most horrid conditions The whole site was set up to slowly work everybody to death. Von Braun must have been fully aware. A dark chapter towards spaceflight indeed.
@ You aren’t wrong. Von Braun was definitely responsible for some horrible acts. However he was a top scientist under a tyrant. Musk is living under a free and democratic system. Drawing a line between him and Von Braun is a stretch given their respective political climates. I love the video, and your point has made me think about Elon’s motivations. I’m just questioning the underlying factors that led to your conclusion.
@@halstephenson1 i think that's fair - you're right, not a perfect analogy
cool video as always :)
I think the take on Elon is a good one.
SpaceX insiders have said "Elon measures every decisions based on how fast it will get us (SpaceX) to Mars".
Also, most likely, SpaceX will go to Mars with government contracts. So, it's a good business move to cozy up to government.
I think he's being real calculated about what he's doing.
LMAO ok, when you started talking about a worm on the moon, I thought you were kidding.
it was a beautiful dream
Oh, take a look at all of the spaceflight history from the 1950s and 1960s… There was all kinds of stuff that was straight out of sci-fi. The design of the lunar module ended up being informed by weight and other technical concerns, but originally it would have looked like something that Marvin the Martian would’ve liked.
It’s amazing people deny that we’ve been to the moon. 🌝
We left the car for the aliens to laugh at
Progress always involves risks. You can't steal second base and keep your foot on first.
Musk is a monster
Did you know that the Lunar Rover was actually playable in the video game Gran Turismo 6? Also, did you ever watch that Top Gear segment where James May drove a Mars Rover prototype? Or that Hagerty Revelations video about the Tesla Roadster?
i have missed all this!
Oh, it was a moon buggy:
ua-cam.com/video/IQFdEB8jARY/v-deo.html
And the Roadster:
ua-cam.com/video/Mwf5wZYju0E/v-deo.html
The way you end the video by dismissing Musk and Von Braun's far-right politics as merely a ploy to get their scientific work done is irresponsible journalism and just really gross. I'm unsubscribing.
how is describing a theory dismissing something?
Sorry, do not agree completely. Elon is mainly driven by grievance and revenge. This is a personality type.
And to get these, he does not give a fork what road he has to take.
He is just not happy how democrats treated him, (not terribly in my opinion, but he has the thinest skin ever) so he will stand on the opposite side.
His main aim is to make money, get power, and have his vengeance, and on the side he finds going to Mars cool.
I'm not fan of Elon, but outside of the last 4 years what about his Mars ambitions are not genuine? From the early 2000's he's always been 'Mars' focused.
People refuse to believe one can be driven by a desire to explore and travel the stars without having some evil underlying motive because they themselves have no ambition to do anything beyond consume social media slop.
California regulators have repeatedly denied expanding SpaceX operations explicitly due to their distaste of Elon’s political views (which are also the views of a significant chunk of the country). To suggest he has no justification for any anger or grievances is to be willfully ignorant
@@12pentaborane How do you know if anything is genuine about him? This is the real question. Personally, I do not believe anything he says or wants us to think about him. He has proven this too many times.
@@Sonnell I mean I know just as much about him as I do you, that is whatever I've seen online, maybe a few inductions with enough sources. Given the story around SpaceX involves Russians being duplicitous, then comparing what should be his actions towards them vs how he acted, I don't suspect him being vengeful to be a primary motivator.
Can't disagree with this conclusion. It is easy to limit the definition of "political" when immersed in a single spectrum of it (especially in an election year). But nearly everything defining what we call "civilization" IS in fact "political" (in its broadest, yet most pure, definition), irrespective of scale, strata, or arena. Morality is at best only adjacent to relevance when trying to apply it to reality. Reality is what it is. (Also the moon is cool.)