The Rolling Stock of the NYC Subway's A Division + Predictions | Transit Talk
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- It's time to take a Rational look at the rolling stock of NYC Subway's A Division, which consists of its numbered lines. In this video, we discuss the variety of types of subway cars for the IRT. Also, with the use of information and analytics, we also predict what cars will come to which lines.
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You threw so much shade at that N train😂😂
So what I’m thinking right now…
First off the R142s and R142As will be CBTC equipped and their dot route signs replaced with the FIND display like on the B Division so the rolling stock can move around easier.
The 7 remains as it is with the R188s, obviously.
The R142s and R142As on the 4 line will likely move to the 1.
The R142s on the 2 and the 5 will stay as well. Some R262s will probably be assigned as expansion.
The R262s will make up the entirety of the 3, 4, & 6 fleets, and as it’s been rumored there will be specific 6 six car train sets for the 42nd Street Shuttle.
I feel the system with the R142 between the (2) and (5) lines is perfect and I think they should keep them. But it would be cool seeing R262 on those lines.
I agree I feel they should change the lightning on the entire fleet like you see on some of the cars on the 2, 4 & 5 which gives them a more refurbish look.
I think they should take all the R142s off the 4 and sent then to the 3 line and have the 4 use R142As and R262s as well as the 6 train
@@TransitFannerR624traini have a real spriital feeling that they are definitely gonna build the Brand New R262As end ways just like the R211AS R211S end ways I'm telling you. That's the reason why they have 100 more R211A at Burbardia factory.
@@leecornwell5632 that's nice
For Everyone replying Queens Boulevard has high ridership and CBTC is already installed there, the R211A's have more capacity than the R160's since the R211A's don't have corner seats with fewer seats and with more passengers standing we can fit more people into each train car and with the wider doors which reduce dwell times people can load and offload onto the train faster. Queens Blvd is routinely crowded which the (E) and (F) have those two criterias, High ridership and CBTC once again Queens Blvd is a line with high ridership, behind the Canarsie Line and Flushing Line. Therefore it would make more sense for the R211's out of the option orders to go to Jamaica Yard.
Fleet assignments are based on CBTC installations and Fleet Age to some extent, with CBTC taking priority. A line like the 8th Avenue (A) and (C) trains do have old cars, and are in the process of getting CBTC. Therefore, it would be beneficial to get R211 cars. In contrast, you have lines like the Broadway Line (N/W) and (Q) that are using old cars, but are NOT earmarked for CBTC installation. Therefore, it would be unwise to send R211's over to all these lines.
Now you have the open gangway trains. A big increase in space compared to the R160, a third criteria has been added. high ridership. As mentioned before Queens Boulevard has high ridership and crowding on the (E) and (F) routes is prominent. Given that QBL already has CBTC and these two lines have high ridership, it makes sense to have R211's go over there, with the R160 cars offloaded onto lower volume lines. It really makes zero sense for train cars of higher capacity (R211's) to be assigned with lower ridership volumes while high ridership lines get stuck with lower capacity cars (R160's). It doesn't really match. By doing the assignments in the way I mentioned with the R211's also considered for the (E) and (F) things become more efficient. By having open gangway trains on Queens Blvd which is the busiest corridor in the B Division we can increase capacity and fit more people into each train car by 10% which equals more standing capacity which makes Queens Boulevard and other B Division lines that have high ridership perfect candidates for open gangway trains. No surprise there since the line is already at capacity, and a 10% capacity increase from the open gangways can make all the difference between crowding on the trains. Seriously, why have the most crowded lines in the B Division have zero open gangway trains when other lines are not routinely crowded? Literally makes zero sense.
Remember, just because the R211's are replacing the R46 cars DOES not mean that they only have to go to lines with these cars. It is definitely okay to assign these cars to lines that don't even have old cars like Jamaica and offload the cars from said yard to the yards with older cars.
Queens Boulevard has a high volume of traffic and crowding. It is why it was urgent for them to retrofit Queens Boulevard for CBTC, In all actuality, the Queens Blvd CBTC is designed to accept any CBTC equipped railcar in revenue service except for the R143 and R160's, so any train car could be operating there it is why Jamaica has a larger chance of getting the R211 option orders. The wider doors and larger capacity make it obvious. With this R160's would be pushed out to other yards, like Concourse and Coney Island Yards, which both operate routes that are at lower capacity. It really makes zero sense to assign high capacity cars (R211's) onto lower volume routes while constantly overcrowded routes with no room to add additional trains are stuck with train cars with lower capacity (R160's).
Jamaica is 100% on the list for R211 cars. Hell it makes perfect sense. High ridership + crowded trains + wider doors + open gangways + CBTC on that line = a match made in heaven.
Logically R262 car assignments should go as follows:
Base Order (504 cars)
-5 Train: 480 cars (Displacing 430 R142's to go on the (3) and Indirect Replacement of 315 R62's).
-42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars (Direct Replacement of 24 R62A's).
Option Order 1 (445 cars)
-6 Train: 445 cars (Direct Replacement of 435 R62A's, fleet expansion for local and express service).
Option Order 2 (415 cars)
-4 Train: 415 cars (Displaced 200 R142's and 220 R142A's to go on the (1) and Indirect Replacement of 365 R62A's).
The 1 and 3 gets R142/A's and The 2 will keep R142's
The 2/5 interchanges between R142's and R262's
This allow for a consistent fleet assignment across all IRT Yards, reducing maintenance headaches.
Keep in Mind that the MTA wants all R262's on Lexington Avenue for Lexington Avenue CBTC While R142/A's move to Broadway 7th avenue line makes the most sense
Logically, the assignments of the R262 cars should go as follows:
Base order (504 cars):
-6 train: 480 cars (direct replacement for 435 R62As, fleet expansion for expanded local and express service).
-42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars (direct replacement for 24 R62As).
Option order 1 (445 cars):
-5 train: all cars (indirect replacement for some R62/As on the 1 and 3 lines).
Option order 2 (415 cars):
-2 train: all cars (indirect replacement for all remaining R62/A cars on the 1 and 3 lines. Direct replacement for R142 cars damaged in the March 2020 fire).
1, 3, and 4 train get R142/As.
This allow for a consistent fleet assignment across all IRT yards, reducing maintenance headaches.
You caused my UA-cam app to crash
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 How?
@@TheRailLeaguer my app was normal until I click the reply button for your comment
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 That’s weird. Maybe it’s your app with problems.
Logically, the assignments of the R262 cars should go as follows:
Base Order (504 cars):
-(5) train: 480 cars (Indirect replacement for All R62 cars on the (3) line).
42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars (direct replacement for 24 R62A's).
Option order 1 (445 cars):
-(6) train: 445 cars (direct replacement for 435 R62A's, fleet expansion for expanded local and express service).
Option order 2 (415 cars):
-(4) train: 415 cars (indirect replacement for All R62A cars on the (1) line).
East 180th Street Yard (5): 480 R262's
239th Street Yard (2): 410 R142's
240th Street Yard (1): 425 R142/A's
Livonia Yard (3) and 42nd Street Shuttle: 24 R262's, 410 R142's
Jerome Yard (4): 415 R262's
Westchester Yard (6): 445:R262's
Corona Yard (7): 508 R188's
Well,that was a pretty good rendering of what might be.
Of course,as of today,we all know that the MTA has pushed back any plans for CBTC overlay for the IRT lines in favor of completing the B Division first to some extent.
6th Avenue,Fulton st,Crosstown were fast tracked ahead of Lexington Avenue CBTC because of logistics.
Even the Broadway/Astoria line and the rest of the BMT was placed on the back burner.
One reason for this might be for the ATS SYSTEM already installed on IRT routes..while most B division lines are still operating with early 20th century signaling.
Since the program has been put on hold,the R62/62a car replacement had to be pushed back to the near future.
Meanwhile,the R46 replacement fleet,R211, has been fully purchased with All options orders included.
This is on the scale close to the R160s..minus a few
However,the 160s replaced several fleets of rolling stock,not just one.
The NTT cars..including the 143,160,and 179s..practically removed All older cars from service that were purchased from the 60s to the early 70s.
Subway cars are expensive today...ranging from 1million to several million dollars apiece.
The 748 R46 cars are being replaced by 1500 R211 type railcars with various subsets, including replacements for the R44 Staten Island Railway fleet,and a new fleet of Gangway equipped/Articulated (211T) for routes beyond capacity such as the Queens Blvd line.
This order includes the earlier proposed fleet growth cars that were to be used on the E L and N lines.
I can completely understand the reasons for MTA adjusting the CBTC program and car purchases.
It's a long drawn out process that takes YEARS TO IMPLEMENT..AND rolling stock must be compatible with the technology used.
The R211 fleet is being built specifically for this..completely replacing older cars on the 8th Avenue subway A C and E lines.
Since the 160s,179s are already enabled for the new signaling
There will be no changes needed for this cars.
6th Avenue CBTC will force the removal of the R68/68a railcars from the B/D routes.
Since the 68s are unable to be upgraded to CBTC tech..these cars will move to the Southern division lines that operate on the Broadway,Astoria,Brighton,Sea Beach and 4th Ave subways (N Q W).
There is no question that the new cars will make an appearance on 6th Avenue...making the entire IND system in the CBD NTT equipped lines.
As the MTA moves forward,more lines will be incorporated into the new signaling system as warranted..such as the remaining BMT lines, and the Overylay of the IRT division.
The R262..new replacement cars for the A division will be purchased before 2030 absolutely.
The 62s and 62a cars are SOUND..built like battleships..potentially lasting for another 20 years or more.
However, like you said, the cost effectiveness dwindles year after year as parts get harder to order..cars breaking down more often, taking up more maintenance hours that could go elsewhere.
Proactively preventing this situation from happening would be the best way to go..but like I said, railcars cost .
The 262s should be purchased regardless of what happens with CBTC A division..giving the MTA a head start,with the cars being CBTC ready.
FULL ATO/ATC for shuttle services..like the TS Grand Central and Dyre Avenue lines..
In any case...the future is bright for the subway system.
I'm sort of concerned about the R68s.
They are about the same age as the 62s more or less...and it is because of this fleet that the MTA removed the Astoria line from the technology program.
I'm guessing that,and this is just a guess, that the MTA is bidding its time.
Being the last of the 75ft cars..a bad idea from the beginning...it would take almost 800 60ft cars to replace the fleet.
Unfortunately,the MTA is currently complaining about money problems again.
We have to wait and see.
The R262 Car Assignments should go as
Base order (504 cars):
-2/5: 480 cars will be assigned for fleet expansion and the 2/5 will keep their 830 R142's Since they are Running perfectly fine and the 2/5 share a fleet
-42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars (direct Replacement for 24 R62A's
Option Order 1 (445 cars):
-6: 445 cars (direct Replacement for 435 R62A's) fleet expansion for local and express service and will make up entirely of R262's
Option Order 2 (415 cars)
-4: 415 cars will make up entirely of R262's (indirect Replacement of R62/A's on the 1 and 3 lines)
The (1) gets 220 R142A's
The (3) gets 200 R142's
The (2/5) keep their 830 R142's
42nd Street Shuttle 24 R262 6-car Trains
When the R262 are awarded it can take as long as three years for the pilot unit to be delivered and another year or two for their 30-Day Acceptance Test. If the R211 delivery schedule is applied to the R262's, it would take five 1/2 years for all cars to be delivered. At this Rate the R262's will enter service in 2030's. The MTA will most likely award the R262 contract in late 2024
The R262's aren't meant to increase capacity or ease overcrowding. The R262's purpose is to retire the R62/A's and allow for CBTC compatibly in the A Divison Open Ganagway trains don't Revile overcrowding
The R142/A's are getting converted for CBTC Similar to the R188's except the R142/A's are staying with their 10-car Trains
The 142 on the 2 and 5 lines would go to the1 and 6 lines. The mix use 142 on the 4 would go to the 3 line. All the new 262's would be for the 2, 5 and 4 lines.
Preach
The 1,3, and 6 should go R262's since they do use the R62/A's which are old and need to be replaced
@@mysticzyt5894no they don’t they run fine. There has been instances where the R142A has broken down faster than the R62/A
I feel like the R262/A's contract will be on hold because MTA is already dealing with the R211's being delayed and they need the R46's gone ASAP because they frequently brake down.
* break*
Not really.
The R262 cars are purposely designed for CBTC and its various subsystems.
The logistics of planning,design and implementation is difficult for sure.
However,this is not insurmountable.
The main issue with the CBTC for the IRT is the main reason why it's needed.
The division carries A LOT OF RIDERS.
AND I MEAN A LOT.
It carries more riders than entire transit systems in several cities across the country...including Washington DC..Boston and Los Angeles all on its own.
Because of the crowds..there are delays after delays..door holdings...throwing schedules into a total mess.
Operations as of right now is working through the logistics of incorporating CBTC into the IRT as an overlap of ATS.
The 262, as wonderful as this sounds, will feature gangway bridges between sets,whether 5 or 6 cars.
This is super desirable in this case,as this would remove overcrowding within the sets..
Assignments are fluid.
My take on this..and it's pure speculation on my part..is the MTA should get a jump on the 262s and all option orders while money is available.
This will save time on the bickering over price and manufacturers bidding on this contract.
It will also be ahead of CBTC,assuring the cars will be CBTC ready and compatible.
The fast forward approach kills any delay..and gives the system a headstart.
While I can understand why the MTA chose the B Division for the upgrades first..I don't think they should put the enhancements off too long.
My ideas for the R262's:
1,364 total cars
(7) 418 cars for AM Rush - 38 trains, 396 R188's for PM rush - 36 trains
(2/5) - The base order would be assigned to the (2/5)
(4/6) - Both get R262 in preparation for Lexington Avenue CBTC
(1/3) Get remaining R142/A cars from the (2/4/5)
R262 isn’t going to on the 7 line,but r188 will have its interior features put in.
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 I meant R188 for the 7
@Dagamez DM That is not how the MTA assigns new subway cars. The (6) is getting R262 for Lexington Avenue CBTC that is planned. Also lines that are short can still have new cars (For example, the (G) uses R160's even though it is a 40 minute line, the (E) still uses R160's even though it is a less than 1 hour line. They use them for the same reason the (6) would get R262, (CBTC). The (2)'s R142s are fine so no need to replace them. Overall 7th Avenue would be 100% R142's (the (1/3) get them from the (4/5), and Lexington Avenue would be 100% R262.
@Dagamez DM How will Lexington get CBTC then? First of all, if Lexington gets CBTC, the (5) WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RUN ANY R142S AT ALL. The (2) could only use R262 on weekends when waits are more infrequent. A way to fix this is by having the (3) go to Flatbush, the (5) to Crown Hts-Utica, and the 4 via New Lots lcl to New Lots. This way the (4/5) can be based out of Livonia Yard and the (3) gets Lenox Yard. The (6) would remain at Westchester with the R262
@Dagamez DM I never stated the (3) was getting R262's
IMO The Fleet Should Go Like This:
(1): Consist of R142s on the occasional R142A
(2) & (5): Should have a mixed consist of R142s and R262s
(3): Consist of R142/R262s
(4): Mixed Consist of R142As/R262s because of Lexington CBTC
(6): Consist of all R142As and the occasional R142.
(7): No need the R188s are fine on the (7) as of right now.
All The Express Trains should get the newer trains first because they have more space and more flexibility for the express lines and then most of the R142/As should go to the local lines since there isn’t as much congestion as the express lines. So it would make sense to put the newer and bigger trains and the express lines and keep the other ntts on the local lines.
No
I think the design of the R262 should be somewhat of a tribute to the classic redbirds. Kawasaki I believe will get the contract.
Exactly 💯% right . The R262/as should definitely have the old Redbirds design tribute except for the R211/Ts . Keep the R211/TS design in dark royal blue 🔵 and change the R262/AS design in the rebuilt Redbirds and that would be cool. i have a real spriital feeling that when the brand new R262/as comes out they are definitely gonna tribute to do the rebuilt Redbirds design I'm telling you. Another thing they are definitely gonna have the 8 baby blue 🔵 8 signs for the Thrid Avenue Elevated line I'm telling you.
I agree. The New York colors should be scrapped and they should go red at least in the front of the cars
@@leecornwell5632 are you saying that the front of the R262/A's should be Red that would be awesome
@@vader97100 I agree the front and a portion of the sides of the R262's should be Red
11:55 - The *7* and *L* service trains have the simplest routes, with least switching, so there is the least need for *new technology* and CBTC.
but that also makes them the safest, simplest, and easiest place to implement the technology
My opinion is that the Staten Island Railway should be 2nd just after the A line) to get the R211 trains. We’re the only borough with R42’s left. I mean, come on, have you SEEN the condition of the SIR trains.
Why not link to PATH
75 R211s, branded R211S are already allocated for the Staten Island Railway. It's all part of the base order of 535 cars. 440 for the subway, 75 for SIR, 20 Open Gangway trains for the subway.
@@qjtvaddict PATH isn't MTA. Its Port Authority
The 42nd street shuttle will probably have its own variation of the R262 model. If anything they might dub it the R262S, and it won’t feature a cabin for any train operators as the train is fully automated.
There are about 24 R262 cars coming in 6-car units
@@TheRailLeaguer maybe more.
@@pbatommy I’m not so sure about that since the whole R262 order is for all the IRT lines except the Flushing Line, as that line is not getting any new cars anytime soon.
@@TheRailLeaguer only for the skittles train,regular ones one person at each end,both conductor and motorman(if cbtc is active)
@@pbatommy the order of 1,364 R262's are enough to retire R62/A's and allow for CBTC compatibly in the rest of the A Division and the R262 order is for all of the IRT lines except for the Flushing line
Kawasaki is clearly the CBTC Compatible option. So I think the R262 will be on 2 4 and 5 and the mix sets from 4 train depot will be on the 6 train and Bombardier R142 will be on the 1 and 3 train. As far as the age of the R188 the cars start from 7900 and only the A car from the R142A received the R188 conversion the B cars are still R142A and then the C car is a R188
I will say no
The latest I heard on the R262 cars is they are trying to negotiate the price of the cars. As for when the order will be awarded, nothing is set in stone right now. Whenever they award them, it can take as long as three years for the pilot unit to be delivered and another year or two for their 30-Day Acceptance Test. If the R211 delivery schedule applies to the R262's, it would take five 1/2 years for all of the cars to be delivered. At the rate we're going, the bulk of the R262's will enter service in the 2030's.
the r142/As need a big upgrade when the CBTC rolls in were the r142 has more led lights same with the r142As and more interior upgrades
Here is my R262's car assignment prediction
(1) & (3) will get R142s from Jerome since the (1) & (3) aren't too Overcrowded
(2/5) will keep its R142's to do their swaps freely if you ask me the 2/5 should get some R262's since sometimes the 2/5 can sometimes be crowded but not too Overcrowded
(4) will make up entirely of R262's since the 4 is a overcrowded busy line and the (1), (3) and (6) will take R142/A's from Jerome with the 1 and 3 primarily using R142's and the 6 using all R142A's along with a few R142's
(6) Should get R262's since sometimes the 6 can be overcrowded along with a mix of R142/A's
(7) The Flushing line is compatible with CBTC and the R188 equipment has enough capacity and has 11 cars so there is No need for R262's on the Flushing line
The 42nd Street Shuttle Will get 24 R262's in (6-car sets)
The MTA might award the contract on mid 2025 so the R262's would arrive in time for CBTC configuration on the Lexington Avenue Line by 2032 All lines From the A & B Division will fully have CBTC installed we can see CBTC getting Installed on the Lexington Avenue Line (2024-2029) That span
The MTA recent put out Request for information (RFI) a possibility of converting the R142/A's for CBTC similar to the R188's but unlike the 11-car R188's the converted R142/A's will stay with 10-car R142/A's
The R262's will also be CBTC Equipped to Retire the R62/A's and allow CBTC compatibly for the A Divison
The R188's are currently 8 years old since in 2013 they've started to convert R142As into R188's for the flushing line
strong on da r262s coming in late 2024
IMHO, the R262 fleet will go to the 2, 3, and 5. The 4 will keep its current mix of R142 and R188ML (internal designation for the R142A cars on the 4). I do not see and IRT SMEEs lasting beyond 2027, with the R62s the first to go.
Also the 42nd Street Shuttle is getting R262
Feel like the 142/as should go to the 1 and 3 and the 2,4,5,6 and shuttle should get the 262s.
The mta should do cbtc in Bronx on 2,4, and 5 trains.
Lexington Avenue is next for the CBTC operation on the A division, but there are no concrete plans for the Bronx as we speak.
Not just that, they should also do IBX to the Bronx.... but the city doesn't give a shit about the Bronx
The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line R262As R342s end ways.
Thrid Avenue Elevated line has a chance in the Bronx again. Never rebuild another elevated line in Manhattan again.
you should do what trains should go with which line
The way I see it keep the r142as on the 4 when the 262s come in
8:34 jerome set on the 5
For Everyone Replaying Queens Boulevard has high ridership and CBTC is already installed there, the R211's have a higher capacity than the R160's Due to removing the corner seats and reduced seating for more room and standing capacity we can fit more people into each train car plus the wider doors which reduce dwell times and people can Board and offload faster and more safely with wider doors plus QBL is routinely crowded which the (E) and (F) have those two criterias High ridership and CBTC once again Queens Blvd is a line with high ridership, behind the Canarsie Line and Flushing Line. Therefore it would make more sense for the R211's out of the option orders to go to Jamaica Yard.
Now you have the open gangway trains. A big increase in space compared to the R160's by squeezing 10% more people into each train car, Remember open gangway trains have more room for people to stand and by removing the corner seats and reduced seating combined with the wider doors and is CBTC Equipped it's beneficial to put open gangway trains on lines that have high ridership and are routinely crowded like the (A), (E) and (F), you get the saying less furniture equals more room and if you knock out a wall that's even more room for people to stand that's why the R211T's have a much higher capacity why would the MTA waste their time to put R211T's on line with low ridership like the (C) and Rockaway Park Shuttle literally makes zero sense. As Mentioned before Queens Boulevard has high ridership and crowding on the (E) and (F) routes is prominent. Given this the QBL already has CBTC and these two lines have high ridership, so it makes sense to have R211's go over there, with R160 cars offloaded onto lower volume lines. It really makes zero sense for train cars of higher capacity (R211's) to be assigned with lower ridership volumes while high ridership lines get stuck with lower capacity cars (R160's). It really doesn't match. By doing the assignments in the way I mentioned, with the R211's also considered for the (E) and (F), things become more efficient.
Fleet assignments are based on CBTC installations and Fleet Age to some extent, with CBTC taking priority. A line like the 8th Avenue (A) and (C) trains do have old cars, and are in the process of getting CBTC. Therefore, it would be beneficial to get R211 cars. In Contrast, you have lines like 6th Avenue line and Broadway line (B), (D), (N/W) and (Q) that are using old cars but are currently NOT In the process of getting CBTC and the (B) is a Part-time route that doesn't run on weekends and transfering them over to the (N/W) and (Q) just for the weekend can be quite a headache While the Broadway line is NOT Earmarked for CBTC installation Therefore, it would be unwise to send R211's over to all of these lines.
Remember, Just because the R211's are replacing R46 cars DOES NOT mean that they only have to go to lines with these cars. It is definitely okay to assign these cars to lines that don't even have old cars like Jamaica and offload the cars from said yard to the yards with older cars. Many people really don't get the concept on how the MTA assigns newer fleets of subway cars plus the MTA did multiple Fleet swaps in the past, another Fleet swap won't be an issue, many people don't do research at all and run their mouths with insufficient information misleading others they usually get aggressive and being disrespectful if that happens I'm blocking them and I'm going to report them remember people need to be careful with what they say words are like swords you don't need a knife or a gun to hurt people words can hurt people too, some people are getting triggered over subway car assignments and changing fleet requirements that happen all the time in both subway and bus side? I'll mention this again the R262 order is for the (4), (5), (6) and 42nd Street Shuttle because Lexington Avenue is getting CBTC First The MTA has mentioned this in their 2025-2029 capital plan the MTA reasoning for having the R262's locked to the Lexington Avenue line is because it's the Busiest line in the A Divison and out of the entire NYC subway system that's why the MTA is trying to get Phase 2 of SAS to 125th street to relive the congestion out of the Lexington Avenue line with this the R142/A's will move to the 7th Avenue (1)&(3) lines if the MTA make the R142's CBTC compliant then the (2) would also use R262's if not then the R262's would just be for the (5), the R262's main purpose is to retire the R62/A's and to Allow for CBTC compatibility on the Lexington Avenue line.
For some people that don't understand The R262's aren't going to the (1) or (3) They're going exclusively on the Lexington Avenue line because they're getting CBTC first. While the (1) and (3) gets displaced R142/A's from the (4) and (5). Lexington Avenue is getting CBTC followed by 7th Avenue. So while R262's are on Lexington, the R142 and R142A's will be out getting retrofitted with CBTC technology by then the MTA is gonna place them on the (1) and (3) lines and the (6) has to get R262's in order for CBTC so priority is definitely (4) (5), (6) and of course anything the (5) gets the (2) shares as well
The R142's and R142A's that are on the (4) and (5) are compatible with CBTC but they have to be retrofitted. The R142 and R142A's didn't come with the technology they're 20 years old. While those are taken away to be fitted, the R262's will replace them (and are CBTC equipped with the technology off the bat). By the time R142 and R142A's are back, the MTA would've started working on CBTC for 7th Avenue. The important thing here is that the R262's definitely have to be on Lexington. And the 42nd Street Shuttle is getting R262's as well.
Remember, in the MTA the oldest trains don't always get replaced directly with newer trains. There's a lot more to it
r142's used to be on the 6 line back in early 2000s and then they went backwards to the 62s which makes no dam sense to me! If I remember correctly the old redbirds were used a few times back in 2001.
I agree I don't like that they took them off the 6 but I feel the 1, 6 & 3 will get the r 262s
Yes they did took all the R142As off the 6 Pelham line because Kawasaki had a big contract to Add the C car units to make it 11 car trains. That's the reason why they put the R62AS back on the Pelham 6 line. The rest of the R142As from the Pelham 6 line were sent to the 4 Jerome Ave line to make extra services.
The R62AS was really not supposed go back on the Pelham 6 line. The R62AS was supposed to go on the 4 line. The Pelham 6 line was not ready for CBTCS.
In the MTA's Press conference Demetrius mentioned that the R211's are only going on lines that have high ridership, lines that already have and are in progress of getting CBTC and Fleet Age which the (E) and (F) fall under those two criterias high ridership and CBTC
when you o the b divsion split it into, 8th av, 6th av, 4th av etc
I THINK THAT THE R262 WILL GO TO THE 2 3 4 5 LINES AND THE R142 ON THE 2 AND 5 LINES WILL BE PUT IN TO SERVICE ON THE 1 AND 3 LINES AND THE MIXED R 142 AND R142A ON THE 4 LINE WILL BE PUT IN TO SERVICE ON THE 6 LINE
The SMEE trains are being retired around 2028-2030
Here is how the car assignments for me would look like for me in the A-Divisions, along with route changes/additions/removals:
- (1) R142As: Since Lexington would have R262s first, I believe that the older NTTs would be at 7th, hence the (1) would have R142As.
- (2)(3) R142s: I deinterlined White Plains Road to only have 7th Ave Express service for White Plains and Dyre. With dual compatibility, this would be done the same as the (2) and (5) currently.
- (4)(5)(6)(8) R262s: Lexington would get their hands on the new NTTs first, so might as well go all out for that. The (8) is just a local-only (6) that goes to Throgs Neck branching from 3rd Avenue. (5) would be an extra service in Jerome, which its use would become more apparent with the Utica Avenue extension of the Eastern Parkway Line.
- (7) R188s: No change.
- (0h) [42nd Street] R62As: No change.
- (0n) [Lenox Avenue] R62s: That is what Lenox has anyway.
If the R62s and R62A retire, (0h) would have R142As at Track MM4 and R262s at Track MM1. (0n) will just get R142s.
I definitely enjoyed this I definitely agree that the 7 line is locked with R188s and in the future and as for the remaining IRT lines I think they should keep the R142s on the 2 & 5 lines and as for the 4 line keep the R142s & R142As on the 4 line & have the R262s assigned to the 1,3,6, & 42nd street S lines.
Too bad the R262 can't go to my (7) line 😪 thanks to the 11 car length, all R188 should look like #7501
The R262 car order is for the IRT main line and the 42nd Street Shuttle.
I wonder how they’ll handle nostalgia rides considering the museum fleet can’t run with CBTC
The Museum Trains Can Bypass CBTC, As seen on the 7 line which has had CBTC for a long time as of right now, the Train of Many Colors an R33/R36WF has been able to bypass cbtc.
Fact IS also some r262 Subway Cars will have closed gangways with Doors between train Cars.
You definitely mean the R262As end ways. That's gonna wind up on the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line I'm telling you.
R62/A 3 trains can go like 55-60mph I LOVE them
142/A are standard and r262 will be articulate car sets so it shouldn't matter. All cars have to navigate throughout the system and the yards otherwise it's pointless. Both r142 and r262 can be stored at any yard in the A division. The B division is no exception, the 143 and r179 are smaller sets of fleets while the the r160 and r211 are larger so I don't think the yards and the train route should utilize a specific car fleet when they stored up at any yard. r143 had it's strip map modified adding the J/Z route and even the M can use the r179 if it wanted to and by the time the line are equipped with CBTC, three car fleets built in and large order can be use on the entire B division and the routes can't be equipped with two or three both standard and articulate units. It no different than the older fleets of 60 ft consisting of 2869 non stainless steel cars and 1600 stainless steel cars total the amount of 4469 cars that could fit in the entire B division system and any route can use them regardless
lol... B divison like Coney Isalnd Yard... There are reason select I.RT. number line cars sent to Coney Island Yard. It for repair. ex. Corona Yard is not big enough to hold 506 R188.. will rest set are stored at Coney Island Yard is the closet.
There will also BE r262 Option without Open gangways.
The R262As end ways.
I say
R262: 1,3,4 & 6 lines, because 3 & 4 can share, and fyi 4 goes to New Lots late nights & rush hours.
R142: Remain on 2, 4 & 5 lines
R142A: All should be on the 6 line.
I dont think the 3 and 4 can or have the ability to share cars. Just because it runs to New Lots doesn't mean it uses the same cars with the 3 after all, its own yard is in the Bronx
What? First why did R142A of 6 line was sent to 7 line.. Westchester yard could not take care of the R142A they had keept 80 car to 4 line,,, R142A wont go back to 6 line . R262 cars will go to Lexington Avenue Line CBTC.. as 7th Avenue Line will be all R142/A or people is still talking about As pelham line schedule to get CBTC soon. I can see 6 line get R142 of 2 line. Part of PElham Line getting CBTC. As Westchester give their R62A to the 2 line.. It R262: will go to 4 , 5 , 6 line, for CBTC and 42 street shuttle. R142 will go to 7th avenue line
@@CR1Creative for my trick. what i did. as history repeat everytime. depend up to the yard how they maintain their cars. when the past was. why 7 line Corona yard dont get new cars. If Transit foamer will stop talking about 7 line never get new cars. Corona Yard was never to going to get new cars. Because my past. If 2, 4 , 5 , 6 line will get new cars. They next line will new cars is 1 , 3 , 7 line. so for now , Corona yard did not get new cars. They just got cars from the 6
@@CR1Creative first Westchester Yard was going to keep R142A. because of my screw up. after the R188 was introduction
@@CR1Creative if you work at Westchester Yard at the 6 line . that fine. when R188 was introduced . Corona yard was not able to maintain cars new tech, R142A were meant for 6 line. Went to 7 line. due to rebuilt R142A , introduction CBTC. R142A were never meant for 7 line. If R142A never went to 7 line
1:44 - On this train, a *brown stripe* on the side shows that a driver's cab is at *this end* of *this train-car* ?
CBTC are not prioritize on the rest of the IRT lines as the r62 were delivered in the early 80s so they have up until 2028 or 2030 to take them out. So if the IRT are intended to get CBTC those lines would have to be work on between 2025 and 2030, plus the r142/a would have to be upgraded and retrofit to make them CBTC compatible while the order of r262 will be done to take out the r62. If they were to get another batch of new cars after r262, it would have to contend with increasing capacity or expansion projects
R262 order
R262A's (Endways): 350 cars
Option Orders I and II
R262 (Open Gangways): 510 cars
Option Order I and II
I Like the NTT
My prediction. 2,4,5 trains going SMEES
R62 back to the 4 train aka my childhood
R62A and R142 swaps between 2,5 and 1,6 lines
R142/As to the 3 train.
The R262 Car Assignments should be straightforward
Base order (504 cars)
-5 train: 480 cars
The (5) line would then transfer it's 410 R142's to the (3) line, Indirect replacement for 315 R62's).
-42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars
(Direct replacement for 24 R62A's).
Option order 1 (445 cars)
-6 train: 445 cars
Direct replacement for 435 R62A's, Fleet Expansion for expanded local and express service).
Option order 2 (415 cars)
-4 train: 415 cars
The (4) line would then transfer it's 420 R142/A's to the (1) line, Fleet Expansion and Indirect replacement for 365 R62A's).
R262's aren't going to the (1) or (3) They're going exclusively on the Lexington Avenue line because they're getting CBTC first. While the (1) and (3) gets displaced NTT's from the (4) and (5). Lexington Avenue is getting CBTC followed by 7th Avenue. So while R262's are on Lexington, the R142 and R142A's will be out getting retrofitted with CBTC technology by then the MTA is gonna place them on the (1) and (3) lines and the (6) has to get R262's in order for CBTC so priority is definitely 4, 5 and 6 and of course anything the (5) gets the (2) shares as well
For some people that doesn't understand. The R142's and R142A's that are on the (4) and (5) are compatible with CBTC but they have to be retrofitted. The R142 and R142A's didn't come with the technology they're 20 years old. While those are taken away to be fitted, the R262's will replace them (and are CBTC equipped with the technology off the bat). By the time R142 and R142A's are back, the MTA would've started working on CBTC for 7th Avenue. The important thing is here is that the R262's definitely have to be on Lexington. And the 42nd Street Shuttle is getting R262's as well.
Remember, in the MTA the oldest trains don't always get replaced directly with newer trains. There's a lot more to it
Lexington Avenue is the Busiest line in the A Divison. That's why the MTA is trying to get the second phase of SAS to 125th street to ease congestion over to Lexington Avenue. The MTA wants All R262's on Lexington Avenue (4), (5) and (6) lines for Lexington Avenue CBTC the (1) and (3) lines will get displaced R142/A's from the (4) and (5) lines
The Flushing line doesn't need R262's since the R188's are CBTC compatible with their addition of 'C' cars to make 11 car R188's Because of this there is no need to swap out the R188's for compatibility purposes because the CBTC Equipped cars are currently working with the technology
The Flushing Line uses a different CBTC system compared to what's planned to be installed on the Lexington Avenue and Broadway-7th Avenue Line. As such, the R262's will be equipped with CBTC system for the Lexington Avenue and Broadway-7th Avenue Lines, so it doesn't appear that the R262's, which aren't even configured for 11-car train ops, won't be going to the (7) line.
Whenever the R262 order is awardedd, it could take as long as two 1/2 years for the pilot unit to be delivered and another year or two for their 30-Day Acceptance Test. If the R211 Delivery schedule applies to the R262's. It would take five 1/2 years for all cars to be delivered, At this rate we're going to bulk of the R262's will enter service in the 2030's.
Here is my estimate
R262 contract award: January 2024
Delivery of Pilot cars: June 2026
R262's 30-Day Acceptance Test: March 2028
Base order R262's: March 2028 to June 2030
Option order I R262's: June 2030 to February 2032
Option order II R262's: February 2032 to August 2033
Alstom can get the R262 Delivery schedule done faster than Kawasaki
Maybe the R62AS on the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line or the R262As end ways or the R342As
The Pelham 6 line is definitely gonna have mix equipments R142/As 50 50 percent R262As .
@@CR1Creative To be fair, when Alstom delivered the R160s, they took equally as long, from 2005 to 2010. Bombardier built their R142s between 1999 and 2003, so 5 years would still be the amount of time it takes.
I think you’re being too liberal with the term “young”
The R179 is young…
The R142 is not, 20+ years is not young, smartphones didn’t even exist when they entered service, society was completely different then, they are not young by any means
I think the r262 will begin service on the 2 4 and 5 lines so the r142 and r142a wil start service on the 1 3 and 6 lines
Cool train can talk.
I just saw your "How can the Post-1985 DEFUNCT Subway lines be returned to service?" video and when you talk about bringing the 9 back, I thought instead, you should use the middle track to skip from 96 st to 137 or 145 st (not to 157 st because the switch doesn't allow trains to access 145 st before the station) it should be a peak direction express, like they have on the D, J, 4, 5, 6, and 7 trains. Also, the middle track in the Bronx shouldn't be used because it just takes you all the way to 242 st where there is just about the amount of ridership as the stations it skips.
In terms of who will be manufacturing the R262's, I heard Kawasaki has expressed no interest in building them. If Alstom does place a bid, then they will likely be the ones to build them. If the pandemic had not happened, we would have known by now. Since the MTA was hoping to award the R262's in January of 2021.
For car assignments, the 42nd Street Shuttle will get five 6-car trains. These cars are earmarked for the (4)(5)(6) lines. With the (6) receiving cars from Option Order I. If the Base Order cars go to the (5), the (5) would then transfer its R142's to the (3). If the Base Order Cars go to the (4), it would then transfer its R142/A's to the (3). Seeing the overall goal of the Base Order cars is to retire the R62 fleet. The Option Order I and II is to retire the R62A's and provide fleet expansion.
Would the (2) use R262's That depends on two factors. They opt not to make the R142's CBTC-compliant the (5) has exclusive use for those R262's. There is a reason why Lexington CBTC is on hold. CBTC is playing a major role in where newer fleets are being slotted at. It is why the Base Order R211A cars are going to the (A) and (C) lines.
The 7th Avenue IRT and BMT Broadway Lines will be the final two Manhattan Trunk lines to receive CBTC.
The R262's Purpose is to retire the R62/A's, Provide fleet expansion and to Enable CBTC on the Lexington Avenue Line
Why the design of subway cars is giving industrial/WWII/freight realness?
I think the 1 and 6 would get R142s from the 2 and 5. The 2 and 5 would get new R262s as well as the 3 which would get r262s to replace the R62s. The shuttle would get R262s, and nothing would happen to the 7 line. The 4 train is controversial, it may retain it fleet or it would get R262s and the R142As would go to the 6 and the R142s would go to both the 1 and 6. We will have to wait till the time comes
R262 Predictions
1 Train: 430 R142s
2 and 5 Trains: 400 R142s and 480 R262s
3 Train: 200 R142s and 220 R142As
4 Train: 415 R262s
6 Train: 445 R262s
42nd Street Shuttle: 24 6 Car R262s
I'll mention this again the R262 order is for the (4), (5), (6) and 42nd Street Shuttle because Lexington Avenue is getting CBTC First The MTA has mentioned this in their 2025-2029 capital plan the MTA reasoning for having the R262's locked to the Lexington Avenue line is because it's the Busiest line in the A Divison and out of the entire NYC subway system that's why the MTA is trying to get Phase 2 of SAS to 125th street to relive the congestion out of the Lexington Avenue line with this the R142/A's will move to the 7th Avenue (1) and (3) lines if the MTA make the R142's CBTC compliant then the (2) would also use R262's if not then the R262's would just be for the (5), The R262's Main Purpose is to retire the R62/A's and to Allow CBTC compatibility on the Lexington Avenue Line. not to mention open gangway trains makes all the difference in crowding on the trains.
For some people that don't understand The R262's aren't going to the (1) or (3) They're going exclusively on the Lexington Avenue line because they're getting CBTC first. While the (1) and (3) gets displaced R142/A's from the (4) and (5). Lexington Avenue is getting CBTC followed by 7th Avenue. So while R262's are on Lexington, the R142 and R142A's will be out getting retrofitted with CBTC technology by then the MTA is gonna place them on the (1) and (3) lines and the (6) has to get R262's in order for CBTC so priority is definitely (4) (5), (6) and of course anything the (5) gets the (2) shares as well
The R142's and R142A's that are on the (4) and (5) are compatible with CBTC but they have to be retrofitted. The R142 and R142A's didn't come with the technology they're 20 years old. While those are taken away to be fitted, the R262's will replace them (and are CBTC equipped with the technology off the bat). By the time R142 and R142A's are back, the MTA would've started working on CBTC for 7th Avenue. The important thing here is that the R262's definitely have to be on Lexington. And the 42nd Street Shuttle is getting R262's as well.
Remember, in the MTA the oldest trains don't always get replaced directly with newer trains. There's a lot more to it
BrianMercy along with a few MTA workers did mentioned this
I have a question that I have never had the answer to. Why are the 42nd street shuttle traind in such good condition and have modern stickers and a good speaker compared to the other R62 and R62As say that are running in the 1 train?
In 2024 an r62 was in the 96 Street derailment
The R142As will be overhauled in a few years, but they won't be converted to R188s. Does anyone know why they don't plan to just convert them to R188s and just say that the 4 train has some 10-car R188s?
R142 is from 1999 to early 2000s
R142a is from like 2009-2013
What are you taking about bro????
both are from 1999 wtf are you on
@@thoseonetrains no, r188 are from 2013…
And the r142a and r142 from 1999-2000….
And the 4 train has r189 and r142a
3:23 Flushing (11) train???
The 8 trains definitely needs to bring the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back where it was . Stop sleeping on the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line and the 9 trains 🚃 to.
Purple s train
@@leecornwell5632 I would enjoy their presence too!
@@leecornwell5632 Accidentally disliked your comment! 😂😂
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 Really?? I thought the IRT Flushing Line never had a shuttle.
There needs to be a complete redesign of all logos, & I have my own proposals. Hope to share them all via UA-cam & Instagram.
Yo wassup
I think that the (2), (4) and (5) lines will get R262s, and maybe the (3) line will get them as well. And the R142s and R142As will be on the (1) and (6)
You’re not entirely right. I really don’t see a need for the 4 to get a new fleet of train cars as the 6 is in need of additional train cars and extra capacity to accommodate ridership through Southeast Bronx and to/from Co-op City, both of which are transit starved. It is also needed to boost express service on the line. Meanwhile the 4 train travels through areas parallel by other subway lines in the area, many of which are also running express. The ideal car assignments should be:
Base R262 (504 cars.):
-6 train: 480 cars
-42nd Street Shuttle: 24 cars
Direct replacement for R62A
Option order 1 (445 cars):
-5 train: all cars
Indirect replacement of R62/A on 1 and 3 lines
Option order 2 (415 cars):
-2 train: all cars
Indirect replacement for R62/A on 1 and 3 lines. Direct replacement for fire-damaged R142 cars
This will allow for fleet assignments to be consistent, with no mixing of R142/A and R262s at all whatsoever.
@Dagamez DM Why do you keep haggling me on that, especially since it is starting to look like the 6 can get the R262s, especially the base order cars.
However there can be somewhat of a compromise that the 4, 5, and 6 can all get the R262s if the 2/5 switching operation is done away with entirely, and by that, I’m meaning rerouting the 5 train from Flatbush Avenue to Utica Avenue and increasing 2 train service, which does help speed up service through Rogers Junction to some extent (my ideals would be two new switches, and having all 2 and 3 trains to Flatbush Avenue and all 4 and 5 trains to the New Lots Line). At this point, you could have:
Base order:
(6): 480 cars
(S): 24 cars
Option order 1:
(4) 445 cars
Option 2
(5): 415 cars.
As this point, the newly-decongested Broadway-7th Avenue Line would be all R142/As.
@Dagamez DM Really? If anything, there are signs that the 6 can get R262s (even BrianMercy has said it a while back). Besides, the 6 is just as busy (if not more busier) than the 4.
@Dagamez DM Really? Again, there is a compromise: have the R262s all allocated to the Lexington Avenue Line with the 2/5 switching operation in Brooklyn eliminated entirely (5 train rerouted in Brooklyn).
@Dagamez DM I was proposing taking the 2 route out of consideration for the R262s (by rerouting the 5 from Flatbush to Utica and keeping those lines 100% separate) while having the 4 and 6 go 100% R262s. This could be beneficial for all routes.
Well the R142a run on the 6 line before the mta killed it and moved to the 4 and 7 lines for fucking sake MTA get those R142a's off the 4 as they look dirty as hell and put cbtc on the pelham line and bring us R142A'S on the 6 to run their all the time.
Make a video with Mystic Transit
He should tbh
@@theofficialNtrain Wrd
I just change my profile
4:01 well, graffiti again
R262 will Not have IT Like d triplex trains that all will have Open gangways.Don't forgett If IT goes about crimes,the criminal can easier Attack you in Open gangways trains and that's why were they removed.And If IT goes about train surfing,train Surfer will die on r211t trains because they can't save himself.And that's a fact.So train Surfer can save from death If they get on the Doors between train Cars and If r211t trains Drive more train Surfer will die😞😞😥😥😥😥.So closed gangways trains are better😍😍😍😍😍😍.
They definitely gonna have both R262s open gateways and the R262As end ways.
Substandard junk, R142-R188 , Get back to basics scrap the lumbar support seating.
What?
NO
@@peskypigeonx You are wrong dumb ass, I've lived in NYC my entire 58 years. I am a R32 baby. And proud of it. Just came back from Ottawa and Montreal , where they have superior rolling stock.