Great video, John. I like the way you are presenting the metrics...85th percentile etc. It gives more meaning to them. Also glad to see the Cheetah Predion E16 AF/CF hanging on your wall. I'm looking forward to your review.
I’ve played with a Filth for 8 months now and just came back to hear your thoughts on it to see how my opinion compares to yours. The podcast with Chris, Will, and Braydon inspired me to come back and listen to y’all’s review of the paddle as you suggested. I love the Filth but when you said that you always drop to the opposite side with it I felt so called out haha! I realize I ALWAYS drop to the opposite side with my Filth. I mean it is the easier shot but yeah maybe my next paddle will have less pop and be a little easier to control. Other than that I love the filth! If I was to change paddles though I think it will be the Six Zero Ruby or the Sword and Shield J2K
Another great review. ok, now I'm interested to see the balance metrics on popular paddles. When the Filth came out I was extremely tempted to buy it in tandem with a lighter paddle (DbD/Pulsar) as someone who also likes to alternate between a power/control paddle depending on how im playing and my opponents. (i ended up only getting a DbD but the Filth would be a great present.) I was curious about what CF B&B are using since the Kew vid regarding the durability of brand name vs no name. The channel STS Pickleball did a great review on the Filth and said he talked to the owner who told him its not Torray but its a premium CF material & not "some run of the mill garbage". John, if you can spend 1K on a useless gold Joola you can spend $200 for that ridic Bird paddle (ive seen one legit review vid on it so far); THAT would be a fun review.
Love your reviews! Keep up the great work! Just wondering if you've had a chance to try the R3 Nova and if so what your initial thoughts are on it? I know it won't be released for a bit but I'm guessing it will be an elongated paddle with a lower swing weight.
Many thanks - the R3 NOVA is a really solid paddle. Yes, you're correct that the swing weight on my NOVA is lower than the R3 Pulsar (119 on the R3 NOVA; 125 on the R3 Pulsar). BUT - I have a prototype R3 NOVA, and the final consumer product might be different.
John i absolutely love your videos -- the no nonsense depth of data and detail is wonderful and the production quality is top notch. I wish you had more hours in the data to review even more paddles. Excellent work and please keep rolling them out!
I’m a custom golf club fitter and have a question. When we butt weight (add weight under the grip)a golf club it changes the swing weight and the balance point. You made the statement that adding weight below the balance point will change the balance point, not the swing weight. If I add 1oz of weight under the grip you’re indicating that that will not change the swing weight only the balance point. Is that correct? That would also mean if I add 1oz at the top of the head it won’t change swing weight. Would appreciate clarity on this. Thanks for all you’re great contributions to the Pickleball community.
Hi - that's correct. I've been experimenting with how weight on different parts of the paddle affects swing weight, twist weight, and balance point. I placed 1.0 ounces of lead tape on the handle of several paddles, and most showed no change in swing weight. The swing weight did drop up to 2 points on four paddles I tested, but that is negligible and within the standard error range. (the swing weight also went up 1-2 points on a few paddles with lead in the handle). In contrast, swing weight increase for 1.0 ounces of lead on the head went up an average of 37 points, which is a pretty massive jump. Adding 1.0 ounces of lead tape to the handle almost always drops the balance point by an entire category (e.g., HH to EQ, or EQ to HL).
I really like Bread & Butter as a company and what they are doing. I ordered the B&B Filth as an alternate to my Pro Drive Ghost when I want and need more Control and Feel. The Ghost is so powerful with the Kevlar Core that in certain conditions in can be a bit too much. As much as I really wanted to love this paddle(the aesthetics are fantastic), I just can't get excited about it. It just felt very dead to me. Especially the lack of Pop. Even adding Lead Tape did very little to open up the sweet spot. Power was there but only after some very aggressive swings that usually flew out. The one thing that did stand out during my demo sessions was Spin. This definitely has more spin than the Ghost, probably because the Poly Core in the Filth allows for more dwell time for the grit to really dig in. Unfortunately, the Filth just didn't work for me. What's great is that they have the 30 day trial guarantee. Give it a shot. It might be the right paddle for you.
Great breakdown the the Filth, I'm crushing it with younger players, I'm 75, and I bang most shots from the back court,with little drinking. I have playing since 2010,and I'm called banger bob.
@johnkewpickleball when you have time, I want to know your review, on the Vatic Pro Prism Flash 16mm that my son own, I own the BnB Filth, and to be honest, overall, I like more the VP Prism Flash 16mm...thanks for your great reviews!
Do you think with so many really good paddles at the price range of $100-$150 like this paddle, Ronbus, Vlatic etc, that the price of the more established paddles paddles will come down?
Coming from Gruvn r16e to this paddle, now gonna be my main. I feel like gruvn has a touch more power in my serves, but feel the Filth has better control with 3rd shot drops, and faster at hand battles. I had no problems with soft game with this paddle, the drives seem comparable to Gruvn. But overall it wins in hand battles alot more easier than my Gruvn,,just have not dialed in powerful serves yet. So far loving it, it feels solid!
The B-roll showing Eddy (now on your podcast) - very good stuff. They are quite creative. The optical illusion in the design is going to mess with my eyes.
I really like the format of this review, probably my favorite so far compared to older reviews. And I like my B&B Filth, too. I've been looking at a Volair Mach 1 Forza 16mm as a potential replacement, but how different do you think they play compared to each other?
From my limited play with the 16mm Forza (~5 matches), the Forza is right up there in terms of power and pop, but it has a lower swing weight, so it's more maneuverable. And the Forza has wicked spin.
@@EricShapiro-wx5ju don’t let what I said sway you. Your experience might be different than mine. I still think it is a great paddle, and if you have a great drive and serve it will be a plus to you like it is to me. I am just considering more options in case I still can’t get a good feel of some touch shots with it. From my experience, it is very precise for my serves, drives, and passing shots with enough spin for spin serves, drive-drops, and top-spin lobs; I only struggle a bit with getting the feel of the pop during dinks and drops, but that might be my lack of skill as I have a lot more to learn about the sport. It is, by all means, a great paddle I enjoy a lot.
Are you personally favoring Filth over Pickleball Apes? I'd love to see reviews of Gruvn Muvn, new Engage Pro, Prodrive Ghost and Black Diamond Power. Is your test data available as a public document?
Awesome, extensive review. As always. Getting into all the details is one of my favorite ways to learn about a paddle and you do a spectacular job. I saw the Viva Pro Gen 2 on the wall. Are you putting out a review for that anytime soon?
Do not get the white edge protector version - mine get smudged up way too much and way too fast. Mine the edge seems to be glued in wrong as it is lob sided - never seems this before. I place lead tape at throat all the way to the lower corner and the paddle is very stable (the swing weight changed by just a bit).
I was going to say, the Apes has already gone to the back burner or even the pantry? I was an early adopter of the Filth. I’ve let 5-6 people play with it and 4 bought it immediately.
@@johnkewpickleball, sorry I wasn't clearer--I was looking for your typical spin comparison chart to visually compare how the B&B Filth stacks up against the competition--thx.
John! Great review as always. Question: Have you spent any time with the Legacy pro? Seems like they may be similar in power/pop but curious if you had an opinion?
I used a Legacy Pro exclusively from January through to June of this year, when I switched to a B&B Filth. To me, they are very different. I liked the Legacy Pro a lot but it was difficult to control consistently. I'm a solid 4.0 and found I would go through periods where I would hit a ball with my typical swing and it would just zoom out of bounds inexplicably. I thought it was just me but no....with the Filth, that just never happens. I find the LPro is WAY poppier than the Filth. Like, no comparison. If I'm at the net setup to block a drive, if I don't soften my grip with the LPro that ball will often fly right out the back of the opposing baseline. Again, that never happens with the Filth. John's excellent review/testing having the Filth so high with regards to pop is surprising to me as I do have to "push" more to get the same amount of pop that I did with the LPro. Same with power and drives. All in all the Filth is a much better paddle for me and am glad I switched. It took about 5 or 6 games to adjust to it as I have to swing a little harder to generate the same power vs the LPro. Also, I find I win way more hands battles at the net with the Filth compared to the LPro. Again, I was surprised to see the swing weight that high as it feels quite a bit less than the LPro to me.
Many thanks for this comprehensive comparison. I've only played with the Legacy a few times, because I don't have one of my own. I had the same experience as you with one of the Legacies - shots inexplicably flying way out (like, over the fence). On hindsight, I'm pretty sure that one had core issues. I didn't know how to test for it back then, but that sort of crazy power isn't normal. Have you done the 'push test' on your Legacy? Pressing in pretty hard with your thumbs around the paddle face to test for a crunching sound?
@@johnkewpickleball when I first learned about the core crushing a few months ago (probably from one of your videos) I tried testing mine but I either wasn't pushing hard enough with my thumb/forefinger or was not doing it in the sweet spot area. I just pulled it out and tested and sure enough, pressing in hard with my thumb/forefinger (i.e., pinching) does produce a crunching sound all over the sweet spot. That explains the inexplicable rocket balls from it! Unfortunately it looks like a 6 month warranty and I purchased mine back in December and it was received in January, so too late. Lesson learned.
@@LearnAtMyExpense @johnkewpickleball Great info guys! I've also been reading that they started making new batches that are slightly less powerful around the March '23 timeline to address those core crushing issues. I wonder if, in the end, it now plays similar to the filth.
The effort you're putting into production quality is appreciated!
Thanks for that feedback! Yeah, it's surprising how much production time these reviews take. But it's all good fun.
What a freaking AMAZING review John 💪🏻👏🏻
Great video, John. I like the way you are presenting the metrics...85th percentile etc. It gives more meaning to them.
Also glad to see the Cheetah Predion E16 AF/CF hanging on your wall. I'm looking forward to your review.
Thanks for the feedback on the metrics. The Cheetah review is next up!
Thanks for the great content as usual John. Curious if you'll be testing and reviewing the Legacy Pro?
so far what paddle has been the most impressive thus far that you have played with?
This one hit amazing for me, but I'm wondering if they have a 16" or 16.25" version.
I’ve played with a Filth for 8 months now and just came back to hear your thoughts on it to see how my opinion compares to yours. The podcast with Chris, Will, and Braydon inspired me to come back and listen to y’all’s review of the paddle as you suggested. I love the Filth but when you said that you always drop to the opposite side with it I felt so called out haha! I realize I ALWAYS drop to the opposite side with my Filth. I mean it is the easier shot but yeah maybe my next paddle will have less pop and be a little easier to control. Other than that I love the filth! If I was to change paddles though I think it will be the Six Zero Ruby or the Sword and Shield J2K
Right on, that’s good feedback. It’s good to know the review resonates with someone who’s played with the Filth for so long!
Thank you for adding balance point analysis!! Would love to see it on all the paddles you have reviewed.
Another great review. ok, now I'm interested to see the balance metrics on popular paddles. When the Filth came out I was extremely tempted to buy it in tandem with a lighter paddle (DbD/Pulsar) as someone who also likes to alternate between a power/control paddle depending on how im playing and my opponents. (i ended up only getting a DbD but the Filth would be a great present.) I was curious about what CF B&B are using since the Kew vid regarding the durability of brand name vs no name. The channel STS Pickleball did a great review on the Filth and said he talked to the owner who told him its not Torray but its a premium CF material & not "some run of the mill garbage". John, if you can spend 1K on a useless gold Joola you can spend $200 for that ridic Bird paddle (ive seen one legit review vid on it so far); THAT would be a fun review.
Love your reviews! Keep up the great work! Just wondering if you've had a chance to try the R3 Nova and if so what your initial thoughts are on it? I know it won't be released for a bit but I'm guessing it will be an elongated paddle with a lower swing weight.
Many thanks - the R3 NOVA is a really solid paddle. Yes, you're correct that the swing weight on my NOVA is lower than the R3 Pulsar (119 on the R3 NOVA; 125 on the R3 Pulsar). BUT - I have a prototype R3 NOVA, and the final consumer product might be different.
any time someone says "swing weight", it sounds like they have a lisp
John i absolutely love your videos -- the no nonsense depth of data and detail is wonderful and the production quality is top notch. I wish you had more hours in the data to review even more paddles. Excellent work and please keep rolling them out!
Another great video John. Love the details. Gruvn Muvn soon? Thanks!
I’m a custom golf club fitter and have a question. When we butt weight (add weight under the grip)a golf club it changes the swing weight and the balance point. You made the statement that adding weight below the balance point will change the balance point, not the swing weight. If I add 1oz of weight under the grip you’re indicating that that will not change the swing weight only the balance point. Is that correct? That would also mean if I add 1oz at the top of the head it won’t change swing weight. Would appreciate clarity on this.
Thanks for all you’re great contributions to the Pickleball community.
Hi - that's correct. I've been experimenting with how weight on different parts of the paddle affects swing weight, twist weight, and balance point. I placed 1.0 ounces of lead tape on the handle of several paddles, and most showed no change in swing weight. The swing weight did drop up to 2 points on four paddles I tested, but that is negligible and within the standard error range. (the swing weight also went up 1-2 points on a few paddles with lead in the handle). In contrast, swing weight increase for 1.0 ounces of lead on the head went up an average of 37 points, which is a pretty massive jump.
Adding 1.0 ounces of lead tape to the handle almost always drops the balance point by an entire category (e.g., HH to EQ, or EQ to HL).
Solid review. Liked the swing and twist weight explanations.
I really like Bread & Butter as a company and what they are doing. I ordered the B&B Filth as an alternate to my Pro Drive Ghost when I want and need more Control and Feel. The Ghost is so powerful with the Kevlar Core that in certain conditions in can be a bit too much. As much as I really wanted to love this paddle(the aesthetics are fantastic), I just can't get excited about it. It just felt very dead to me. Especially the lack of Pop. Even adding Lead Tape did very little to open up the sweet spot. Power was there but only after some very aggressive swings that usually flew out. The one thing that did stand out during my demo sessions was Spin. This definitely has more spin than the Ghost, probably because the Poly Core in the Filth allows for more dwell time for the grit to really dig in. Unfortunately, the Filth just didn't work for me. What's great is that they have the 30 day trial guarantee. Give it a shot. It might be the right paddle for you.
Ghost has a kevlar core?
Great breakdown the the Filth, I'm crushing it with younger players, I'm 75, and I bang most shots from the back court,with little drinking. I have playing since 2010,and I'm called banger bob.
@johnkewpickleball when you have time, I want to know your review, on the Vatic Pro Prism Flash 16mm that my son own, I own the BnB Filth, and to be honest, overall, I like more the VP Prism Flash 16mm...thanks for your great reviews!
Do you think with so many really good paddles at the price range of $100-$150 like this paddle, Ronbus, Vlatic etc, that the price of the more established paddles paddles will come down?
Coming from Gruvn r16e to this paddle, now gonna be my main. I feel like gruvn has a touch more power in my serves, but feel the Filth has better control with 3rd shot drops, and faster at hand battles. I had no problems with soft game with this paddle, the drives seem comparable to Gruvn. But overall it wins in hand battles alot more easier than my Gruvn,,just have not dialed in powerful serves yet. So far loving it, it feels solid!
The B-roll showing Eddy (now on your podcast) - very good stuff. They are quite creative. The optical illusion in the design is going to mess with my eyes.
Love this paddle, only negative is it could a tad more elongated., I get some tip offs from top edge guard.
Could you please review ALW-C 12.7mm?
Can you do the shogun too? Looks like an updated version of this with titanium weave on the face. Interested to see what that does.
I wonder if a 14 mm paddle of this brand would be just as effective .....I am so used to 14 that when I use a 16, it feels clunky
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
My flavorite 😎 Great work John!
Great review as always. B&B gets mad respect from me after the interview on Building Pickleball.
What's with that ProEnergy S paddle hanging on the wall? Can't wait for that review.
Great review as always John :) Love hearing your thoughts on paddles!
Thanks, man! We keep reviewing the same paddles, haha
@@johnkewpickleball We have good taste 😎
Just found out about you and wow. Excellent reviews man
Hudef Viva Pro Gen 2 review….Please?
I really like the format of this review, probably my favorite so far compared to older reviews. And I like my B&B Filth, too. I've been looking at a Volair Mach 1 Forza 16mm as a potential replacement, but how different do you think they play compared to each other?
From my limited play with the 16mm Forza (~5 matches), the Forza is right up there in terms of power and pop, but it has a lower swing weight, so it's more maneuverable. And the Forza has wicked spin.
@johnkewpickleball thanks for the response John! I might give it a try when it's time for a new paddle. Keep up the good work!
@@jatseng0000thanks man ... Now I'm torn.
@@EricShapiro-wx5ju don’t let what I said sway you. Your experience might be different than mine. I still think it is a great paddle, and if you have a great drive and serve it will be a plus to you like it is to me. I am just considering more options in case I still can’t get a good feel of some touch shots with it. From my experience, it is very precise for my serves, drives, and passing shots with enough spin for spin serves, drive-drops, and top-spin lobs; I only struggle a bit with getting the feel of the pop during dinks and drops, but that might be my lack of skill as I have a lot more to learn about the sport. It is, by all means, a great paddle I enjoy a lot.
Are you personally favoring Filth over Pickleball Apes? I'd love to see reviews of Gruvn Muvn, new Engage Pro, Prodrive Ghost and Black Diamond Power. Is your test data available as a public document?
No, the Apes is still my #1. I eventually plan to release the data to the public.
looks exactly like the gamma obsidian, no?
My favorite paddle Love it. Best packaging in the business and have great line of apparel as well
Did you happen to measure the Rt and Rz on this paddle?
Hi John! I’ve been really wanting to find how many rpm’s I am generating on my shots! How do you find your rpm numbers?
Hi, I use a camera with 240 fps, and count the frames in one revolution. I take an average of 10 serves.
Awesome, extensive review. As always. Getting into all the details is one of my favorite ways to learn about a paddle and you do a spectacular job. I saw the Viva Pro Gen 2 on the wall. Are you putting out a review for that anytime soon?
Thanks! Yes, I do plan on reviewing the Viva Pro. It might take a while, given my backlog, but it'll get done
Another good video, John. Where can we find your spreadsheet with paddle stats including new balance point? Is that available?
I don't have the stats online yet, but I plan to
Do not get the white edge protector version - mine get smudged up way too much and way too fast.
Mine the edge seems to be glued in wrong as it is lob sided - never seems this before.
I place lead tape at throat all the way to the lower corner and the paddle is very stable (the swing weight changed by just a bit).
I've been using the white edge version for about 2 months now and no scuffs/marks on it, playing on an outdoor court (indoors at local Life Time).
Keep it up. Love your reviews. Purchased the Pro Line Energy after your review. It has been great.
Good to hear!
I was going to say, the Apes has already gone to the back burner or even the pantry?
I was an early adopter of the Filth. I’ve let 5-6 people play with it and 4 bought it immediately.
No, the Apes is still my primary. My switching back and forth between the Filth and R3 Pulsar was back when the Pulsar was my primary.
What gives the Apes the edge over the Filth for you?
Thanks for the review--informative and comprehensive as always--but did I miss spin rate rating?
Did you see the RPM mention in the video (1,800)? Or do you mean the rating system I have (top-tier, high, medium, low)?
@@johnkewpickleball, sorry I wasn't clearer--I was looking for your typical spin comparison chart to visually compare how the B&B Filth stacks up against the competition--thx.
Great review style, earned my sub.
Did you stop playing with the Ape paddle?
Nope, still my primary!
Are there links to the paddle spreadsheets in the video?
Not yet - I plan to create a sharable version though
Excellent review btw😅
Thanks bro!!
John! Great review as always.
Question: Have you spent any time with the Legacy pro? Seems like they may be similar in power/pop but curious if you had an opinion?
I used a Legacy Pro exclusively from January through to June of this year, when I switched to a B&B Filth. To me, they are very different. I liked the Legacy Pro a lot but it was difficult to control consistently. I'm a solid 4.0 and found I would go through periods where I would hit a ball with my typical swing and it would just zoom out of bounds inexplicably. I thought it was just me but no....with the Filth, that just never happens. I find the LPro is WAY poppier than the Filth. Like, no comparison. If I'm at the net setup to block a drive, if I don't soften my grip with the LPro that ball will often fly right out the back of the opposing baseline. Again, that never happens with the Filth. John's excellent review/testing having the Filth so high with regards to pop is surprising to me as I do have to "push" more to get the same amount of pop that I did with the LPro. Same with power and drives. All in all the Filth is a much better paddle for me and am glad I switched. It took about 5 or 6 games to adjust to it as I have to swing a little harder to generate the same power vs the LPro. Also, I find I win way more hands battles at the net with the Filth compared to the LPro. Again, I was surprised to see the swing weight that high as it feels quite a bit less than the LPro to me.
Many thanks for this comprehensive comparison. I've only played with the Legacy a few times, because I don't have one of my own. I had the same experience as you with one of the Legacies - shots inexplicably flying way out (like, over the fence). On hindsight, I'm pretty sure that one had core issues. I didn't know how to test for it back then, but that sort of crazy power isn't normal.
Have you done the 'push test' on your Legacy? Pressing in pretty hard with your thumbs around the paddle face to test for a crunching sound?
@@johnkewpickleball when I first learned about the core crushing a few months ago (probably from one of your videos) I tried testing mine but I either wasn't pushing hard enough with my thumb/forefinger or was not doing it in the sweet spot area. I just pulled it out and tested and sure enough, pressing in hard with my thumb/forefinger (i.e., pinching) does produce a crunching sound all over the sweet spot. That explains the inexplicable rocket balls from it! Unfortunately it looks like a 6 month warranty and I purchased mine back in December and it was received in January, so too late. Lesson learned.
@@LearnAtMyExpense @johnkewpickleball Great info guys! I've also been reading that they started making new batches that are slightly less powerful around the March '23 timeline to address those core crushing issues. I wonder if, in the end, it now plays similar to the filth.
@@LearnAtMyExpense Bummer! It makes sense, though - given what you were describing.
Whaaaaaaaaaat is Eddie using at 8:52??
That's the Bird. Testing it now. It's actually a lot of fun!