You did so great with this! Love that you humanized BPDers while also validating the pain loved ones can experience in relationships with them. We were previously diagnosed with BPD and used to specialize in it when we were a provider. We always wanted to specialize knowing the stigma, and knowing we had traits of it so we could relate. But jeez… do we relate to the treatment not working how it should have. I’m still waiting to be assessed for OSDD / DID. I wouldn’t say I fully have BPD anymore, just some leftover traits. But all DBT did was make me suppress as much as I could for everyone else. I didn’t actually learn to self regulate with the skills, unfortunately. I am so excited for the next video, especially to see how modalities / approaches in phase 1 of trauma therapy for cptsd, BPD and OSDD / DID may differ and why. It’s fascinating and such an important topic. Thanks again!
I'm autistic, have BPD, and likely DID/OSDD. I feel like this is such a complex web of symptoms and experience for me. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about how these conditions can interact and be present even in one individual.
Thanks for clarifying the diagnostic overlaps between bpd and did. It helps to understand that clinicians have to make diagnoses on how we present on the day. Obviously, we don't have insight into our actions/behaviours, and from my own experience, I was seen as confused, unaware of my name and unable to explain where I'd been that day etc.. It's helpful, with your insight, to be less resentful of the misdiagnosis. I'm just relieved that the bpd didn't stick forever and I have now been correctly diagnosed with did. It's possibly saved my life. Thanks again
Really excited for the next video. I know people with both BPD and a dissociative disorder. Finding a therapist who can work with both disorders has been a challenge. Also, I appreciate how you talk about BPD. Its very focused on the person who has it and there's a lot of understanding and compassion. And even people in the comments are being kind. Normally I don't touch videos about BPD because of how much stigma and toxicity is coming from the person doing the video and the comments.
I am so touched by your consistent perspective of a person in distress rather than (a common stereotype? of) someone who is annoying/disruptive/dramatic for the fun or gain that is supposed to be in it for them
🤩Thank you for your insights into BPD and Dissociation! I’m 62 and in the last 30 years have had many diagnosis which I felt did not get to the (dissociative) heart of the matter. My ACEs score is high and while I do meet the criteria of cPTSD and BPD, I feel the origin of the symptoms is dissociation. Learning about and working with the model of being a system is what is allowing me to make progress in regulating my emotions and being more resilient! I feel hopeful that your insight will help make this journey of understanding DECADES shorter for others and help people get relief from the suffering dissociation causes.
thank you for this video, i appreciate it as it clears up some confusion about BPD symptoms. i feel so sad knowing how people with BPD are treated. i wish there will be more accessibility and care for them. just wish people with mental health conditions were treated better.
My husband was diagnosed with BPD after a stay in a hospital and I think, at the moment, is in a bad place, even though he won’t admit it. So, this video is very timely and is helping me to find the empathy, as it can be very trying. But I love him very much and just want him to be OK
Thank you very much for this! I've got diagnosed 16 years ago age 17 and I after this it just stuck. I often was unsure if it was right. I felt back then every person with self harm was just thrown in the bpd box. I was in therapy for years, reading much about bpd and trauma and the way the psyche works, trying to understand myself, looking for ways to handle, maybe to heal. But all descriptions I found seemed to cover just one part and other parts weren't fitting to my situation. Since then there has been so much development in the topics on trauma. I've read, some consider bpd as being in fact c-ptsd. I found about it being on the dissociative spectrum, but quite bit lower than DID. Ther were so much experiences I read about that I found myself in, that seemed to fit just as well. Bipolar, ADHD, autism, HSP (high sensitive Person), low level OSDD 1a/b... I questioned myself if I should try to get a new (current) diagnostic process, if it would help me understand and work further. Or if it was wrong to even have a diagnosis, because maybe i'm just more sensitive to stimuli and my parents just gave me a strange subcultural mindset that wouldn't work out with mainstream society, maybe I'm overdramatising? This is the first explanation of the symptoms and the way how it works, that really clicks. That gives me the feeling, yes, this is me, this describes and understands and fits really my inner experience. Thank you for doing this video series. Thank you for finding this words to explain, that finally really hit. And thank you for building this bridge from bpd to the dissociative symptoms. I feel like they are often just batted away when it comes to borderline, because other issues need more attention. And since many of the other issues are quite dramatic and dissociation shows itself usuall quite anti-dramatic, the other issues are ALWAYS more important. I'm looking forward excitedly to the upcoming videos. :)
Thank you for this comment, as it fits in exactly with what I am trying to achieve with the video and series n general. BPD is seen as being a trauma-based description of strategies designed to protect but that has a huge impact on life and others. We have to understand the overlap to work out our terms and how the manifestation of it plays out, else it maintains a destructive quality.
ooh! I'm excited for this series! Our Dad would really benefit from it specifically~ (i know we shouldnt be his therapist but he trusts us and we already got his "schizophrenia" voice to be nicer to him
Could you say some more about the change from BPD language to EUPD? The huge increase in diagnosis being given flippantly is certainly going to increase prevalence stats but isn’t that confirmation bias too?
Avoid yes, but we BPD persons are constantly afraid of being rejected all the time, and it's very extreme and even abnormal behavior. So we do everything in our power to please others so that we are not rejected.
@@CatherineDoII Your description is very, very accurate. If you have never seen the reaction to abandonment that is classic BPD, you don't know what is coming for you. It can range from suicidal to homicidal. I have seen it. Fortunately, I haven't been it its path very often. The more logical and calm the source of the abandonment (real or imagined) is, the bigger the fit. It is a tsunami for people with BPD. This is not part of the DID/OSDD diagnosis.
@@Cathy-xi8cb Yeah, I am very self-destructive and suicidal if I experience the feeling of abandonment. It feels like the end of the world and like I have no dignity left at all. The pain is so immense that I feel I will die.
@@thectadclinic So it would that also mean that the healthy reaction to abandonment would be to just tolerate the pain, instead of trying to avoid it? (I am not clear on what is imaginable pain, maybe I am also having a language barrier.)
Could you do a video on narcissistic personality disorder (if you're experienced with it)? I think it would be beneficial if there was an educational/professional perspective, to try to understand the disorder among all the videos that stigmatize it as the 'abuser' mental illness.
@@thectadclinic If that is your experience and perspective, then I would advise you don't. NPD needs to be discussed in a non-biased way. If you want to learn more I would advise the channel 'heal npd'. Though I must say that I'm no longer comfortable watching your channel due to this response, NPD deserves respect and compassion, I wish you'd understand that.
@@FaetllerI’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. You are stopping watching the channel because some people with NPD have attacked me professionally? Could you help me understand what you do not like about this?
@@thectadclinic It feels offputting to me that your immediate first thought when mentioning NPD was to think of how you had been affected in a damaging and painful way, even though I mentioned that I want to see the disorder be destigmatized. I hoped you would show compassion just as you did for BPD; they are sister disorders, and you wouldn't respond to a comment about BPD, saying how much people with BPD had personally hurt you. It's not anything wrong with you sharing that; it's just the context and setting of this educational channel and the video is concerning and uncomfortable for me.
@@Faetller I understand, but it feels sad that my experience of NPD has been the recipient of people retrying very hard to destroy me professionally, and you demonstrate no compassion about this whatsoever, whilst demanding I show compassion to those who tried to hurt me. Sure, not every person with NPD might act like this, but the ones I met have. It has been possibly the worst experience I have had as a psychologist. It has almost made me quit my job entirely. If I were to make a video about NPD it would not contain this information, it would be fair and unbiased, based upon clinical research, as was my take on BPD, as would be fair to viewers of this channel. I offered you personal perspective and you acted as if I had done something wrong.
Thank you for another great video (also loved the podcast episode with Healing My Parts)!! Looking forward to seeing what else you have to say on the BPD and dissociation subject. Out of interest (and I know this may be something you touch on in upcoming videos or may be way too complicated to answer shortly); in terms of Structural Dissociation, BPD is described as secondary SD whilst DID is tertiary SD, does this mean the two aren't diagnosed together? Or because BPD is a personality disorder and not a dissociative disorder, you can still have BPD alongside the DID? For example, if the cause and experience of the eg abandonment fears are not expressed across the system as a whole? Hope that question makes some sense, just trying to understand the distinctions 😊
Hi Dr. Mike. I really enjoy your videos and find them very informative. I was wondering if you could ask you a question about an anxiety symptom. When I am in groups I tend not to be able to think. My mind is blank and I can't conjure a thought. I can answer questions so in a sense I'm present but there's no internal monologue. The answers are always panicked and kind of untruthful bc I can't think. I know it's triggered by anxiety but is this just an anxiety thing or a dissociation thing?
It’s interesting. I have a diagnosis of DID, not BPD, but if I look at all my different parts together, we would meet that criteria. But, no one part would qualify for the diagnosis…
I wonder how we might examine the overlap between DID/OSDD/MPD/DDNOS and BPD if people have both. Could the individual alters hold elements of the BPD but not all of it, like symptoms holders? Some that hold the trauma, different alters that hold just a few individual symptoms, but together qualify for BPD?
We were diagnosed with BPD years ago. It really didn't match our symptoms. Turned out we have Complex PTSD and DID (thats why this is written in the plural). The treatment program we went to for the diagnosis of BPD had therapists who assumed we were constantly trying to manipulate the staff
Me too! First diagnosis, 20 years ago, BPD, from a Psychiatrist. CPTSD & DID diagnosed last year. So often accused of manipulative behaviour, when I was trying to explain how my internal world worked. Which didn't make sense to me.
@MyDisavow some nurses and/or doctors think if a condition is rare and it somehow doesn't exist. Until someone with DID shouts it in their face (figuratively) then they're blind as bats and think you can't have DID and they don't know what to look for
Thank you for this video. I have a question that is not related to this topic, but to having did; could you do some video about "self" and "identity"? I mean... In your words; What is it? Or; how can one work with such a question? I just wonder, on my path towards healing this is still an issue and when the different parts start looking at "each other" - we do not recognize ourselves in "me".
Something I am wondering about because of current events in my life... when I talk to someone who I know had BPD and I see them 'switch' in a way that makes their face look very different, a lot younger, and their thought processes seem very young and their usual competence in an area is lost, would you consider that clear signs that they also have DID or could this still be within the range of dissociation in BPD?
I'm of course not a professional, but I think it is possible for a borderliner. It depends on the severity, if the person in aware of this happening, has memorys available, is a distinct and consistent other personality etc. I think, there is not a clear line between osdd and bpd (between bps and c-ptsd the same), it depends on the manifestion of symptoms - just like not every borderliner or every person with osdd have the same collection of symptoms. There could be a person with bps close to the border to osdd and vice versa. I think. But aside from this deliberations, it is very possible for a a person with bps to regress to a childlike state when overwhelmed (to make things easyer to handle many things are just cut away and the person doesn't need to act self-dependent and be able to handle everything), or when very comfortable and opening up, or when very excited and playful, or also when insecure or afraid of abandonment or anger it could be a fawn response to activate the protective instincts of the other person. If it is still the same person, allthough maybe less filtered or more emotional vulnerable und less capable, then this is well in the range of borderline. Of course this is NOT a diagnose to your friend, this is just in general.
@@eva_kfguzg not a friend, a situation at work... I'd love to hear what Mike has to say about the difference between regression and switching to a dissociative part... seems like a tricky thing to diagnose in this area of overlap...
@@theresadutcher4750 I agree. As mike said in the video, it's quite difficult to diagnose bps correctly, because there are so much overlapings and surface similarities. :)
These symptoms remind me of neurodivergent traits with black and white thinking in ASD and impulsivity and rejection sensitivity in ADHD. The key difference seems to be the attachment element. Which might get tricky to distinguish if someone’s hyper fixation is an attachment figure. Interesting video, thanks 😊
yes 100%! I find it so difficult, because I was diagnosed with bpd as a punishment for talking back to a therapist, and she was backed up by her colleague who said emotional dis-regulation was sufficient reason for a bpd diagnosis, and I didn't have to have the other symptoms. That I had also been diagnosed with ADHD or that there is reason to believe I might be autistic did not keep them at all from just "deciding" that I actually just didn't try hard enough to communicate with them and that "the reason for misunderstandings was not the Autism, but the bpd". So.. of course I am now always wondering, when I see content about bpd, whether maybe they had seen some truth where I couldn't.. but I honestly believe it is rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and not "fear of abandonment", that makes me react strongly to rejection (e.g. when asking for help, or a job..).
We have a horrible time with rejection. We cant hold a job because of our DID and being mentally 13 years old. We were also bullied/victim of hazing while in school (that's why we have the DID) so we completely understand how upsetting abandonment and rejection can be @zametal.
There are other testing that can be done to tease out this stuff. I'm sorry you went through that. That is awful and there's no reason that you should have been way.
@zametal. can you find anyone to remove the bpd diagnosis from your medical history or medical chart? We were able to show BPD was a misdiagnosed, when it was actually C-PTSD and a doctor took out of our chart for that hospital. My previous said say actually that I, the host, am 13 years mentally. The others are 15-17 yrs.
@@siobhanoconnell9444 I will try, but I am right now still in a very bad place and feel like the millions of things I have to organize are impossible to achieve. But once I managed to get the more urgent things done I will definitely try to still deal with the misdiagnosis being taken off. I did also tell them that I had a suspicion to have a dissociative disorder, but they said it wasn't possible because "one has to experience something really bad". So it was immediately dismissed.
What are your thoughts on the newer beliefs that BPD is not a personality disorder but a trauma disorder akin to DiD? People with bpd have usually suffered tremendous abuse and they can change with behavior therapy unlike the other personality disorders.
Bpd is a personality disorder. DID is a dissociative disorder. Like apples and oranges. The Hallmark of bpd is the inability to retain relationships and a fear of abandonment. People with just DID usually can maintain relationships. I have DID and I have many long term friends. I’ve never had a problem making and keeping friends. I also have emotional object permanence so distance from people doesn’t cause me to doubt thier love for. Someone with borderline didn’t develop emotional permanence. Bpd has schema modes but they don’t have full alters who take over the body and have thier own agenda. Bpd is emotional instability. Also with DID the freeze state is the primary defense. With bpd the fight state is the primary ego defense. As someone with just DID I don’t experience suicidality or emotional instability. I merely swap alters. I’m highly functional. The dissociation with DID is more severe than with bpd. I’ve literally lost whole days or had fugues. My primary emotional issue is fear of consciousness itself. I’m not obsessed with who’s my friend or now or who’s left or stayed i trying to stay functioning. I feel like people with bpd can be a lot more energized. Meanwhile I feel drunk and like fainting all the time. The physiology with someone with DID is vastly different.
Actually, back only a few decades ago BPD was instead called ‘Inadequate Personality’. So, whether it’s BPD, EUPD, Inadequate Personality…. how ever you dress it up… It’s a bullshit diagnosis. Anyone reading this who ‘has’ BPD- There’s nothing wrong with your personality… you have struggles, you have been caused much hurt. You likely need to feel cared about. You’re worth caring about. Sadly this label will cause and has caused more grief and pain on top of everything else…
There is a TON of overlap with borderline and autism. I’ve read studies about how a lot of high masking women tend to get misdiagnosed with borderline before they find a competent doctor and get an autism diagnosis. Imagine getting misdiagnosed and being told for years that you are borderline but then coming across someone who knows what they’re talking about and learn that you’re actually autistic. We need more research on this overlap
Really Mike? I thought better of you. You do know better! Please please OMG… BPD? Are you serious? You likely know exactly what I mean. I’m calling this bullshit diagnosis out! Why are you promoting this drivel? I don’t care that you don’t care that I’ve just lost any respect I had for you.
Hi, not sure what I am promoting - I have been asked to offer information on this topic, and I have many patients diagnosed with this condition. If you do not respect me for this, that is fine, but it exists and people wanted some assistance seeing it discussed in the context of dissociation, which very few other people are doing. I know this is a difficult label/diagnosis/condition, but to avoid talking about it would not be fair.
@@thectadclinicI see it as ‘promoting’ because the rest of the information is missing. This dx/formulation is used against many ,mostly females, as a way to offroll them from mh services. BPD label is a diagnosis of exclusion -meaning once diagnosed it makes it very easy for nhs MH service providers to discharge you from any form of MH ‘care’. Only a few decades ago BPD was called ‘Inadequate Personality’.Yes, how awful is that! Many deaths have happened due to the BPD diagnosis/ misdiagnosis and the ‘treatment’ received because of that dx.(mostly females) BPD is a diagnosis that’s misogynistic, sexist, and is used mostly against young females. If you disagree but would like more information on the Reality - Real Lived experiences Im talking of -I’m quite happy to provide that. Every BPD diagnosis is a misdiagnosis and it’s about time it was removed from the DSM/ICD altogether and done away with.
@@thectadclinicAlso, not so long ago it was said that to treat a person who has Trauma with the same treatment as someone diagnosed/formulated with BPD would potentially be re traumatising and cause further harm. If BPD is caused by Trauma- Call it as such. TRAUMA. The worst part for many who have been labelled BPD is in fact the treatment from MH providers… Recent documentaries have highlighted this. Extremely upsetting. So let’s tell the truth about BPD diagnosis and let’s hear it from those with lived experience- you’ll get a more honest picture.
@@deborahanne675 I agree, and working with people who have BPD from trauma without addressing trauma would be problematic. But BPD is extremely harmful if not recognised and treated correctly. To ignore the difficulties associated with this condition, to act like it isn’t significant, can result in loss of life. Services working with BPD need to be extremely careful and compassionate. We don’t offer a BPD service, what we are interested in is reassessing such a diagnosis in the light of dissociation if appropriate, and helping access towards what will work best. I hear that you angry about this condition being used incorrectly, and you should be. All we want is for diagnosis to be correct and help the person involved. BPD is often diagnosed wrong, and we are trying to change this.
@@thectadclinic Thank you Mike. I have lost friends due to this BPD diagnosis and the way they’d been treated since being diagnosed. Also many misdiagnosed BPD when they were actually struggling with Autism - leading to suicide. (Zoe Zaremba case- worth googling) I believe in treating all with compassion, sadly this is not happening. The stories I hear from many diagnosed with BPD are heartbreaking- being told ‘take responsibility’ - they actually did and are no longer alive. Many also being hung up on by MH practitioners when they’ve reached out to crises teams, some being stitched at A&E without anaesthetic after self injury…etc So to say I am angry- I am actually heartbroken because Many vulnerable and struggling people are being given this diagnosis and it’s breaking them. The suicide risk also heightens due to contempt and ill treatment from many MH service providers of those diagnosed BPD. There is nothing good, kind or compassionate from MH services if one has been diagnosed BPD. Of course I’m not suggesting to ignore any difficulties ever. Many diagnosed BPD are not being treated correctly, recovery groups/ complex needs groups are a farce. In fact MH services are a disgrace at present time. I also speak from experience regarding that diagnosis, misdiagnosis, MH providers treatment of me and decades of unwarranted poly drugging. The whole BPD diagnosis needs overhauling. In fact the whole nhs psychiatric system needs overhauling. So much harm caused, so much retraumatisation. They need to take responsibility too! Signing off for now because it’s just too upsetting but thank you for listening and for replying. X.
You did so great with this! Love that you humanized BPDers while also validating the pain loved ones can experience in relationships with them. We were previously diagnosed with BPD and used to specialize in it when we were a provider. We always wanted to specialize knowing the stigma, and knowing we had traits of it so we could relate.
But jeez… do we relate to the treatment not working how it should have. I’m still waiting to be assessed for OSDD / DID. I wouldn’t say I fully have BPD anymore, just some leftover traits. But all DBT did was make me suppress as much as I could for everyone else. I didn’t actually learn to self regulate with the skills, unfortunately.
I am so excited for the next video, especially to see how modalities / approaches in phase 1 of trauma therapy for cptsd, BPD and OSDD / DID may differ and why. It’s fascinating and such an important topic. Thanks again!
You are very welcome!
I'm autistic, have BPD, and likely DID/OSDD. I feel like this is such a complex web of symptoms and experience for me. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about how these conditions can interact and be present even in one individual.
Thanks for clarifying the diagnostic overlaps between bpd and did. It helps to understand that clinicians have to make diagnoses on how we present on the day. Obviously, we don't have insight into our actions/behaviours, and from my own experience, I was seen as confused, unaware of my name and unable to explain where I'd been that day etc..
It's helpful, with your insight, to be less resentful of the misdiagnosis. I'm just relieved that the bpd didn't stick forever and I have now been correctly diagnosed with did. It's possibly saved my life. Thanks again
Really excited for the next video. I know people with both BPD and a dissociative disorder. Finding a therapist who can work with both disorders has been a challenge.
Also, I appreciate how you talk about BPD. Its very focused on the person who has it and there's a lot of understanding and compassion. And even people in the comments are being kind. Normally I don't touch videos about BPD because of how much stigma and toxicity is coming from the person doing the video and the comments.
Honestly, I really know what you mean. There is often a lot of hate around this topic, from all sorts of folks.
I am so touched by your consistent perspective of a person in distress rather than (a common stereotype? of) someone who is annoying/disruptive/dramatic for the fun or gain that is supposed to be in it for them
Thank you!
🤩Thank you for your insights into BPD and Dissociation! I’m 62 and in the last 30 years have had many diagnosis which I felt did not get to the (dissociative) heart of the matter. My ACEs score is high and while I do meet the criteria of cPTSD and BPD, I feel the origin of the symptoms is dissociation. Learning about and working with the model of being a system is what is allowing me to make progress in regulating my emotions and being more resilient! I feel hopeful that your insight will help make this journey of understanding DECADES shorter for others and help people get relief from the suffering dissociation causes.
thank you for this video, i appreciate it as it clears up some confusion about BPD symptoms. i feel so sad knowing how people with BPD are treated. i wish there will be more accessibility and care for them. just wish people with mental health conditions were treated better.
My husband was diagnosed with BPD after a stay in a hospital and I think, at the moment, is in a bad place, even though he won’t admit it. So, this video is very timely and is helping me to find the empathy, as it can be very trying. But I love him very much and just want him to be OK
Thank you very much for this!
I've got diagnosed 16 years ago age 17 and I after this it just stuck. I often was unsure if it was right. I felt back then every person with self harm was just thrown in the bpd box.
I was in therapy for years, reading much about bpd and trauma and the way the psyche works, trying to understand myself, looking for ways to handle, maybe to heal. But all descriptions I found seemed to cover just one part and other parts weren't fitting to my situation.
Since then there has been so much development in the topics on trauma. I've read, some consider bpd as being in fact c-ptsd. I found about it being on the dissociative spectrum, but quite bit lower than DID.
Ther were so much experiences I read about that I found myself in, that seemed to fit just as well. Bipolar, ADHD, autism, HSP (high sensitive Person), low level OSDD 1a/b... I questioned myself if I should try to get a new (current) diagnostic process, if it would help me understand and work further. Or if it was wrong to even have a diagnosis, because maybe i'm just more sensitive to stimuli and my parents just gave me a strange subcultural mindset that wouldn't work out with mainstream society, maybe I'm overdramatising?
This is the first explanation of the symptoms and the way how it works, that really clicks. That gives me the feeling, yes, this is me, this describes and understands and fits really my inner experience.
Thank you for doing this video series. Thank you for finding this words to explain, that finally really hit.
And thank you for building this bridge from bpd to the dissociative symptoms. I feel like they are often just batted away when it comes to borderline, because other issues need more attention. And since many of the other issues are quite dramatic and dissociation shows itself usuall quite anti-dramatic, the other issues are ALWAYS more important.
I'm looking forward excitedly to the upcoming videos. :)
Thank you for this comment, as it fits in exactly with what I am trying to achieve with the video and series n general. BPD is seen as being a trauma-based description of strategies designed to protect but that has a huge impact on life and others. We have to understand the overlap to work out our terms and how the manifestation of it plays out, else it maintains a destructive quality.
Very informative, great thank you.
I’m wondering if you can do the same on histrionic personality disorder and a comparison between the two?
ooh! I'm excited for this series! Our Dad would really benefit from it specifically~ (i know we shouldnt be his therapist but he trusts us and we already got his "schizophrenia" voice to be nicer to him
Could you say some more about the change from BPD language to EUPD? The huge increase in diagnosis being given flippantly is certainly going to increase prevalence stats but isn’t that confirmation bias too?
I wonder, though.. doesn't anybody try to avoid abandonment?
Avoid yes, but we BPD persons are constantly afraid of being rejected all the time, and it's very extreme and even abnormal behavior. So we do everything in our power to please others so that we are not rejected.
@@zametal. you would if it hurt like an imaginable pain, I think. We avoid what we cannot tolerate.
@@CatherineDoII Your description is very, very accurate. If you have never seen the reaction to abandonment that is classic BPD, you don't know what is coming for you. It can range from suicidal to homicidal. I have seen it. Fortunately, I haven't been it its path very often. The more logical and calm the source of the abandonment (real or imagined) is, the bigger the fit. It is a tsunami for people with BPD. This is not part of the DID/OSDD diagnosis.
@@Cathy-xi8cb Yeah, I am very self-destructive and suicidal if I experience the feeling of abandonment. It feels like the end of the world and like I have no dignity left at all. The pain is so immense that I feel I will die.
@@thectadclinic So it would that also mean that the healthy reaction to abandonment would be to just tolerate the pain, instead of trying to avoid it?
(I am not clear on what is imaginable pain, maybe I am also having a language barrier.)
Could you do a video on narcissistic personality disorder (if you're experienced with it)?
I think it would be beneficial if there was an educational/professional perspective, to try to understand the disorder among all the videos that stigmatize it as the 'abuser' mental illness.
@@Faetller I would like to, as I have been personally affected by people with NPD in a very damaging and painful way.
@@thectadclinic If that is your experience and perspective, then I would advise you don't. NPD needs to be discussed in a non-biased way. If you want to learn more I would advise the channel 'heal npd'. Though I must say that I'm no longer comfortable watching your channel due to this response, NPD deserves respect and compassion, I wish you'd understand that.
@@FaetllerI’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. You are stopping watching the channel because some people with NPD have attacked me professionally? Could you help me understand what you do not like about this?
@@thectadclinic It feels offputting to me that your immediate first thought when mentioning NPD was to think of how you had been affected in a damaging and painful way, even though I mentioned that I want to see the disorder be destigmatized. I hoped you would show compassion just as you did for BPD; they are sister disorders, and you wouldn't respond to a comment about BPD, saying how much people with BPD had personally hurt you. It's not anything wrong with you sharing that; it's just the context and setting of this educational channel and the video is concerning and uncomfortable for me.
@@Faetller I understand, but it feels sad that my experience of NPD has been the recipient of people retrying very hard to destroy me professionally, and you demonstrate no compassion about this whatsoever, whilst demanding I show compassion to those who tried to hurt me. Sure, not every person with NPD might act like this, but the ones I met have. It has been possibly the worst experience I have had as a psychologist. It has almost made me quit my job entirely. If I were to make a video about NPD it would not contain this information, it would be fair and unbiased, based upon clinical research, as was my take on BPD, as would be fair to viewers of this channel. I offered you personal perspective and you acted as if I had done something wrong.
Thank you for another great video (also loved the podcast episode with Healing My Parts)!! Looking forward to seeing what else you have to say on the BPD and dissociation subject. Out of interest (and I know this may be something you touch on in upcoming videos or may be way too complicated to answer shortly); in terms of Structural Dissociation, BPD is described as secondary SD whilst DID is tertiary SD, does this mean the two aren't diagnosed together? Or because BPD is a personality disorder and not a dissociative disorder, you can still have BPD alongside the DID? For example, if the cause and experience of the eg abandonment fears are not expressed across the system as a whole? Hope that question makes some sense, just trying to understand the distinctions 😊
I loved the podcast too! Great to know a little more about Mike himself plus the knowledge he always imparts! Justine 😊
Thank you, it was a lot of fun doing the podcast, glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Dr. Mike. I really enjoy your videos and find them very informative. I was wondering if you could ask you a question about an anxiety symptom. When I am in groups I tend not to be able to think. My mind is blank and I can't conjure a thought. I can answer questions so in a sense I'm present but there's no internal monologue. The answers are always panicked and kind of untruthful bc I can't think. I know it's triggered by anxiety but is this just an anxiety thing or a dissociation thing?
Sorry, we can’t comment on individual symptoms, needs a thorough understanding of context and history etc!
I'd love it if you'd make a video on bipolar disorder and go through the various sub-types.
I kind of just did, it’s on the list!
It’s interesting. I have a diagnosis of DID, not BPD, but if I look at all my different parts together, we would meet that criteria. But, no one part would qualify for the diagnosis…
I wonder how we might examine the overlap between DID/OSDD/MPD/DDNOS and BPD if people have both. Could the individual alters hold elements of the BPD but not all of it, like symptoms holders? Some that hold the trauma, different alters that hold just a few individual symptoms, but together qualify for BPD?
what is the dissociative symptons of bpd. u said another video covers this subject
We were diagnosed with BPD years ago. It really didn't match our symptoms. Turned out we have Complex PTSD and DID (thats why this is written in the plural). The treatment program we went to for the diagnosis of BPD had therapists who assumed we were constantly trying to manipulate the staff
Yeah, that sounds like a ton of stigma got in the way of treatment.
Me too! First diagnosis, 20 years ago, BPD, from a Psychiatrist.
CPTSD & DID diagnosed last year.
So often accused of manipulative behaviour, when I was trying to explain how my internal world worked. Which didn't make sense to me.
@MyDisavow some nurses and/or doctors think if a condition is rare and it somehow doesn't exist. Until someone with DID shouts it in their face (figuratively) then they're blind as bats and think you can't have DID and they don't know what to look for
Can you do a next video on NPD please
NPD?
@@Alias...001 Narcissistic personality disorder
Thank you for this video. I have a question that is not related to this topic, but to having did; could you do some video about "self" and "identity"? I mean... In your words; What is it? Or; how can one work with such a question? I just wonder, on my path towards healing this is still an issue and when the different parts start looking at "each other" - we do not recognize ourselves in "me".
Something I am wondering about because of current events in my life... when I talk to someone who I know had BPD and I see them 'switch' in a way that makes their face look very different, a lot younger, and their thought processes seem very young and their usual competence in an area is lost, would you consider that clear signs that they also have DID or could this still be within the range of dissociation in BPD?
I'm of course not a professional, but I think it is possible for a borderliner. It depends on the severity, if the person in aware of this happening, has memorys available, is a distinct and consistent other personality etc.
I think, there is not a clear line between osdd and bpd (between bps and c-ptsd the same), it depends on the manifestion of symptoms - just like not every borderliner or every person with osdd have the same collection of symptoms. There could be a person with bps close to the border to osdd and vice versa. I think.
But aside from this deliberations, it is very possible for a a person with bps to regress to a childlike state when overwhelmed (to make things easyer to handle many things are just cut away and the person doesn't need to act self-dependent and be able to handle everything), or when very comfortable and opening up, or when very excited and playful, or also when insecure or afraid of abandonment or anger it could be a fawn response to activate the protective instincts of the other person.
If it is still the same person, allthough maybe less filtered or more emotional vulnerable und less capable, then this is well in the range of borderline.
Of course this is NOT a diagnose to your friend, this is just in general.
@@eva_kfguzg not a friend, a situation at work... I'd love to hear what Mike has to say about the difference between regression and switching to a dissociative part... seems like a tricky thing to diagnose in this area of overlap...
@@theresadutcher4750 I agree. As mike said in the video, it's quite difficult to diagnose bps correctly, because there are so much overlapings and surface similarities. :)
These symptoms remind me of neurodivergent traits with black and white thinking in ASD and impulsivity and rejection sensitivity in ADHD. The key difference seems to be the attachment element. Which might get tricky to distinguish if someone’s hyper fixation is an attachment figure. Interesting video, thanks 😊
yes 100%!
I find it so difficult, because I was diagnosed with bpd as a punishment for talking back to a therapist, and she was backed up by her colleague who said emotional dis-regulation was sufficient reason for a bpd diagnosis, and I didn't have to have the other symptoms.
That I had also been diagnosed with ADHD or that there is reason to believe I might be autistic did not keep them at all from just "deciding" that I actually just didn't try hard enough to communicate with them and that "the reason for misunderstandings was not the Autism, but the bpd".
So.. of course I am now always wondering, when I see content about bpd, whether maybe they had seen some truth where I couldn't..
but I honestly believe it is rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and not "fear of abandonment", that makes me react strongly to rejection (e.g. when asking for help, or a job..).
We have a horrible time with rejection. We cant hold a job because of our DID and being mentally 13 years old. We were also bullied/victim of hazing while in school (that's why we have the DID) so we completely understand how upsetting abandonment and rejection can be @zametal.
There are other testing that can be done to tease out this stuff.
I'm sorry you went through that. That is awful and there's no reason that you should have been way.
@zametal. can you find anyone to remove the bpd diagnosis from your medical history or medical chart? We were able to show BPD was a misdiagnosed, when it was actually C-PTSD and a doctor took out of our chart for that hospital. My previous said say actually that I, the host, am 13 years mentally. The others are 15-17 yrs.
@@siobhanoconnell9444 I will try, but I am right now still in a very bad place and feel like the millions of things I have to organize are impossible to achieve. But once I managed to get the more urgent things done I will definitely try to still deal with the misdiagnosis being taken off.
I did also tell them that I had a suspicion to have a dissociative disorder, but they said it wasn't possible because "one has to experience something really bad". So it was immediately dismissed.
What are your thoughts on the newer beliefs that BPD is not a personality disorder but a trauma disorder akin to DiD? People with bpd have usually suffered tremendous abuse and they can change with behavior therapy unlike the other personality disorders.
@@Theantinarc Good question, I have two videos over the weekend coming out showing why BPD might actually be DID in some cases!
Bpd is a personality disorder. DID is a dissociative disorder. Like apples and oranges. The Hallmark of bpd is the inability to retain relationships and a fear of abandonment. People with just DID usually can maintain relationships. I have DID and I have many long term friends. I’ve never had a problem making and keeping friends. I also have emotional object permanence so distance from people doesn’t cause me to doubt thier love for. Someone with borderline didn’t develop emotional permanence. Bpd has schema modes but they don’t have full alters who take over the body and have thier own agenda. Bpd is emotional instability. Also with DID the freeze state is the primary defense. With bpd the fight state is the primary ego defense. As someone with just DID I don’t experience suicidality or emotional instability. I merely swap alters. I’m highly functional. The dissociation with DID is more severe than with bpd. I’ve literally lost whole days or had fugues. My primary emotional issue is fear of consciousness itself. I’m not obsessed with who’s my friend or now or who’s left or stayed i trying to stay functioning. I feel like people with bpd can be a lot more energized. Meanwhile I feel drunk and like fainting all the time. The physiology with someone with DID is vastly different.
Actually, back only a few decades ago BPD was instead called ‘Inadequate Personality’.
So, whether it’s BPD, EUPD, Inadequate Personality….
how ever you dress it up…
It’s a bullshit diagnosis.
Anyone reading this who ‘has’ BPD- There’s nothing wrong with your personality… you have struggles, you have been caused much hurt.
You likely need to feel cared about. You’re worth caring about.
Sadly this label will cause and has caused more grief and pain on top of everything else…
There is a TON of overlap with borderline and autism. I’ve read studies about how a lot of high masking women tend to get misdiagnosed with borderline before they find a competent doctor and get an autism diagnosis. Imagine getting misdiagnosed and being told for years that you are borderline but then coming across someone who knows what they’re talking about and learn that you’re actually autistic. We need more research on this overlap
I completely agree - this is quite common and it can be an awful experience.
Really Mike? I thought better of you.
You do know better!
Please please OMG… BPD? Are you serious?
You likely know exactly what I mean.
I’m calling this bullshit diagnosis out!
Why are you promoting this drivel?
I don’t care that you don’t care that I’ve just lost any respect I had for you.
Hi, not sure what I am promoting - I have been asked to offer information on this topic, and I have many patients diagnosed with this condition. If you do not respect me for this, that is fine, but it exists and people wanted some assistance seeing it discussed in the context of dissociation, which very few other people are doing. I know this is a difficult label/diagnosis/condition, but to avoid talking about it would not be fair.
@@thectadclinicI see it as ‘promoting’ because the rest of the information is missing.
This dx/formulation is used against many ,mostly females, as a way to offroll them from mh services. BPD label is a diagnosis of exclusion -meaning once diagnosed it makes it very easy for nhs MH service providers to discharge you from any form of MH ‘care’.
Only a few decades ago BPD was called ‘Inadequate Personality’.Yes, how awful is that!
Many deaths have happened due to the BPD diagnosis/ misdiagnosis and the ‘treatment’ received because of that dx.(mostly females)
BPD is a diagnosis that’s misogynistic, sexist, and is used mostly against young females.
If you disagree but would like more information on the Reality - Real Lived experiences Im talking of -I’m quite happy to provide that.
Every BPD diagnosis is a misdiagnosis and it’s about time it was removed from the DSM/ICD altogether and done away with.
@@thectadclinicAlso, not so long ago it was said that to treat a person who has Trauma with the same treatment as someone diagnosed/formulated with BPD would potentially be re traumatising and cause further harm.
If BPD is caused by Trauma- Call it as such. TRAUMA.
The worst part for many who have been labelled BPD is in fact the treatment from MH providers…
Recent documentaries have highlighted this.
Extremely upsetting.
So let’s tell the truth about BPD diagnosis and let’s hear it from those with lived experience- you’ll get a more honest picture.
@@deborahanne675 I agree, and working with people who have BPD from trauma without addressing trauma would be problematic. But BPD is extremely harmful if not recognised and treated correctly. To ignore the difficulties associated with this condition, to act like it isn’t significant, can result in loss of life. Services working with BPD need to be extremely careful and compassionate. We don’t offer a BPD service, what we are interested in is reassessing such a diagnosis in the light of dissociation if appropriate, and helping access towards what will work best. I hear that you angry about this condition being used incorrectly, and you should be. All we want is for diagnosis to be correct and help the person involved. BPD is often diagnosed wrong, and we are trying to change this.
@@thectadclinic Thank you Mike. I have lost friends due to this BPD diagnosis and the way they’d been treated since being diagnosed. Also many misdiagnosed BPD when they were actually struggling with Autism - leading to suicide.
(Zoe Zaremba case- worth googling)
I believe in treating all with compassion, sadly this is not happening. The stories I hear from many diagnosed with BPD are heartbreaking- being told ‘take responsibility’ - they actually did and are no longer alive. Many also being hung up on by MH practitioners when they’ve reached out to crises teams, some being stitched at A&E without anaesthetic after self injury…etc
So to say I am angry- I am actually heartbroken because Many vulnerable and struggling people are being given this diagnosis and it’s breaking them.
The suicide risk also heightens due to contempt and ill treatment from many MH service providers of those diagnosed BPD.
There is nothing good, kind or compassionate from MH services if one has been diagnosed BPD.
Of course I’m not suggesting to ignore any difficulties ever.
Many diagnosed BPD are not being treated correctly, recovery groups/ complex needs groups are a farce.
In fact MH services are a disgrace at present time.
I also speak from experience regarding that diagnosis, misdiagnosis, MH providers treatment of me and decades of unwarranted poly drugging.
The whole BPD diagnosis needs overhauling.
In fact the whole nhs psychiatric system needs overhauling.
So much harm caused, so much retraumatisation.
They need to take responsibility too!
Signing off for now because it’s just too upsetting but thank you for listening and for replying. X.