Hey, thanks for the shout out Jesse! I'm excited you're getting into all grain. So much fun:-)> Also, this was the best explanation of enzymes and gelatinization I've ever heard. Great video!
I have been making beer for 40 years, and I really expected that you were going to miss a few important points -- you didn't. I am proud of your synopsis. Two things I would like to point out: 1) There are two basic types of malted barley - 2 row and 6 row. The 6 row has WAAY more enzyme potential than 2 row. 2 row can convert itself and some (lets say equal weight) of cereal grain (corn). 2) You mentioned that you mash your whiskey at 50/50. It is a hair-splitting distinction, but bourbon (which is made with sour mash) requires at least 52% to be corn. That having been said, I say use 6 row it has better diastasic power. If you put some 6 row in with all your corn, and very slowly raise it to 156 it goes through a protein conversion at 122F this helps keep it soupy (and not gloppy), then boil it to gelatanize. Cool it to 145 and add the rest of your malt (I say 6 row or distillers malt), and convert your cereal mash for 90 minutes... GREAT INFORMATION...
I must say that years of making beer and bear-ish drinkables: take your secondary grains to 180° F a couple of times and let them Cool to 140°F. Then add 6 row barley. You're good to go. You can convert the sugars in a sweaty bandana using this method. Oat, corn, rice, quinoa, 145 for 5 mins then 165, 5 mins then 180, then Cool. Repeat. With 2 cycles 96%+ conversation. Then pitch in your 6 row high enzyme barley at 145°F or less. The hover around that 145-150° mark for as long as you are patient. . Let cool to ambient. Then boil the whole wort. You'll thank me later. This breaks down everything else. And activates all catalysts along the way. Go slowly to the boil. You're going to ferment for 3 days to 3 weeks. What's your hurry. This is slow medicine. Nurture it.
Great video Jesse lots of good information I always ferment on the grain then filter though a straining bag which I put into a mop squeezer I bought just for this purpose when finished I have a hard dry brick of spent grain. The mop squeezer hangs right on the side of whatever bucket or drum you're using just rinse it off and keep it away from your wife until next time. Have a great day and thanks for your help.
As a brewer all grain is sort of basic for me, but i imagine that for anyone that have never touched the subject before this would be very, very informative and helpfull
Yep agreed! I guess it's kinda 101 for brewing. But more intimidating for entry distillers. My guess is because of the want to make 50+ % corn grist's. I think most brewers would run into trouble there too. Probably more on the practical side than the theory I guess.
Yeah, on the theory side, only differences ifound in switching over from brewing were; 1) maximize fermentability because any non fermented sugars are more or less wasted, solow temps long mashes and no boil (to this end commercial enzymes are the cats meow) 2) no sparging, you just ferment on the grain then distill on the grain (if you can electrical elements don't always play nice with grain bits). This also increases sugar usage as you are not losing any to the grain.
Mate you inspired me last year to try an all grain with your bastard whiskey vid. I’m knocking up a hell of a corn whiskey with heavy peat smoked barley, aged on charcoal and heavy char American oak. Again got the oak ideas from yet another vid you did. Keep going, I’m keen to see a thumper in action next!
As I'm new to distilling and still working my way thru old uploads, this 1 really relates. I'm getting ready to start a few all grain runs... Wheat, corn and rye mixtures, all with 6 row barley added. Ol' George, Barley and Hops, also has a great video about using alpha and beta amalase. Thanks Jesse ! Enjoying the hell out of the old vids ! Cheers 👍
Thank you, I am new to the hobby and your channel has been one of my main resources to walk through this steep learning curve. This video in specific cleared up all my confusion on grain mash. Thanks again for what you do.
Great overview, well explained and simplified. I like Distillers Malt with my corn mash, I think it adds to the flavor profile more than liquid enzymes do.
Hi Jamie. I’m a beer brewer and really enjoy your videos. It’s great that you refer to beer as well during your videos. I watch your current stuff but went back to look at a couple of your malt, grain, mash videos as I love the science. I’m not even sure if you’ll see this comment. Thank you. Robert
Hey Jesse, great show,I very much appreciate all the free info that I get outta still it. I can only imagine all the books that I've not had to read,thanks to you
Hi Jesse, worked my way through your back catalogue and I gotta say, you have done a fantastic job of repackaging the cluttered and tangled bits of information available on the forums and put them together into a readily comprehensible chunk. Well done. Looking forward to seeing what you continue to add to this channel.
Jesse, I've recently been looking into all grain mashes and trying to understand them.. Of course i found you in the process! This was a great explanation considering I had figured out what amylase was but didn't understand how to get it working or where it was coming from .... other than the packets amazon kept trying to sell me.... not sure that's the rabbit hole I wanted to go down as a new craftsman.. I can see the appeal as it would be faster but as we know faster isn't always better... thanks again Jesse big thumbs up for this vid!
Great breakdown! I just put my first whisky on wood this week (made an awful video about it) and it's not exactly what I'm looking for so I'm looking forward to see how you get on with your grain mashes to pick up some tips. Great work, Jesse!
Awesome dude! Is the vid on this account?? I'll check it when I get home. Give it time my man. It may not end up being exactly what you wanted. But I'm sure time will be kind to it!
Yeah man! I'd love any feedback if you have a chance to have a quick look at it. I've had a lot of colour come through in only a few days and the smell is starting change so hopefully with time it will evolve even more. I don't know if I can leave links here but here it is > ua-cam.com/video/Mk_FO1QQqKg/v-deo.html Cheers!
Def be watching closely. I have been having the WORST conversion efficiencies with my all grain mashes. My last batch of George Washington Rye I only ended up with roughly 6% abv when I was expecting upwards of 12. Great job so far with everything so far Jesse. I'll actually be wearing my still it shirt to work tonight haha.
nope, not fermenting on grain and I did do a sparge. I was using flaked corn and cracked rye so as to avoid a stuck mash with flaked rye. Everything I've read says that the gelatination temp for Rye is mashing temp so I used the flaked corn to avoid having to do a boil/cereal cook. I even added extra amalyse just to boost my brewers barley enzyme power. I may have to give flaked rye a try next time or see if my brewers supply house can get in malted rye for me or just do a cereal cook anyways. I had nto heard before about flaked grains not being fully gelatenized before so who knows. Part of the fun of all this I guess is trying different things to get around a problem. Even with having to augment with sugar to get up to 15% the flavor and nose is still good.
Yeah cool man. I don't see anything specific wrong. What were the weights of all the grain? Total water after sparge? What are you calculating your SG with? What brewhouse / mash eficency are you aiming for?
Always hated sparging flaked maize. Ended up having to ring out everything to get the enzymes and sugars out into the wash. Have had much better results cooking the cereal grains for an hour or two. Or at least ferment on the grain so you get as much enzymes as possible into your fermenter.
I believe, with 2 row barley at least, they are able to convert up to 6x their weight in grain. I’ve always used 3lbs of 2 row for every 15lbs of corn. Never had a problem, and I just used plain ole red star bread yeast.
Perfect timing on the video Jessie as I am currently gathering all my needs for my first grain mash. I've been doing cornflake sugar washes with great success, but it's time to move on. I'm going to cheat a little at first as I'm going to use the liquid enzymes before I move on to all grain. I'm going to use steamed flaked corn and see how that works out. My question to you and the board is "Is there a difference in the mash ABV, all other things being equal, between feed corn or using food grade corn"? Keep up the good job Jessie!
Awesome dude! I wouldn't say it's cheating. Just different. I'm going to guess there will be a slight difference. But I couldn't tell you exactly what it would be.
Gary, Your ABV will be a result of the amount of starch contained in the corn and how good of a conversion you achieve. If your conversion is low just add a little sugar to bring it up. I have always had excellent results using high quality feed corn.
Thanks for the response Bill, I eat sweet corn regularly when in season. I've tried feed or field corn a couple of times just for shits and giggles. It's terrible. So my thinking was that with sweet corn being so much more flavorful, that it would make a better drip.
I use crappy "dent" feed grade corn. It works amazingly well if you give it sufficient time to hydrate and gelatanize (basically hold it right around boiling for 2 hours before using enzymes). Dent corn is uber cheap too
Its my understanding that sweet corn is picked earlier before all the sugars have been converted to starch. Therefore with enzyme use there should be no difference.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of how you do all grain mash. I have done a couple of them now. Also I have watched Bearded & Bored malting corn, really good introduction to moulting your own corn. I have also used non molted grain and have also tried using oatmeal, using alfa amilyes only. I have not been able to get the beta amylase. Never thought of adding molted barley. (thank you for the inspiration). Want to find out how to get the mash above 5%. to 7% .Alright for beer, not any good for Spirits.I had to add processed sugar each time to get gravity points to 14% to 15% . You have inspired me to do a corn and molted barley mash. I will wait till I find out how I may be able to increase the gravity points using all grain. Or reduce the quantity of processed sugar. Once again Thanks Jess for you chanel.
If you have trouble with getting the desired abv you can either ask a professional brewer, or double mash, which is what I would do. You could also get a strain of barley that's been made to get the most sugar out of it, but older strains of barley like Bere and golden promise do actually give a higher quality of spirit.
LOVE your videos. I'm absorbing so much info about this hobby that I've never even thought about before. I'm saving up some money so that when i dive in head first I won't have to sell my car to keep chasing the craft. Thanks so much! Your passion radiates through your videos. Do you know of any processes that involve *koji* as the enzyme for gelatinized grains/starches? Sake production uses a parallel "fermentation" of yeast and koji simultaneously (essentially the enzymes work at the same time as the yeast throughout fermentation). The enzymes produced in koji are certainly not specific to rice (it's used in conjunction with everything from black beans to raw beef!). There is the concern, however, that because, the enzymes produced in koji are SO versatile, it would end up breaking down and impart your wort with undesirable proteins. Regardless, I'd be interested to see if anyone out there has experimented with a whiskey style mash --> distillate using koji. Or, really, any other type of distillate besides one that's just rice based. Cheers! Larry
This is what I need really bad, cans I put alpha and Bata at the same time. I have been doing alpha at 145 to 155 for about an hour,then put Bata inn at 145 then let temp drop slow tell 77deg F. I check it with iodine, it seams to be working, this is what I need and see it done ✅👍
Jesse, I am watching older videos because I am suffering from Still-it Withdrawal Syndrome! You mashed at a temp that is below alpha enzyme conversion temperature range. Since the alpha enzyme chops up the longer chain starches into shorter chains so that the beta enzymes can do their work, it seems like you would get less fermentable sugars (lower gravity) using your suggested 62C mash temp. Why is this preferred for distilling? My source is John Palmer’s excellent book How to Brew chapter 14 (first edition). Thanks for a Stellar Channel on Chasing the Craft!
O think the easiest way to look at it is to get your corn to a simmer for 45 minutes or so. It will turn thick like porage. Add water as you go and stir. After that keep stirring and watch the temperature. When you hit the top end of the enzyme heat level 150 f. if I remember stir in your maoted barely. Let that sit, not heat and as the temperature drops the different enzymes do their job. Once it hits pitching temp add more water and pitch. Then just keep your yeast happy and away you go.
If I had a very large still I'd be much more tempted to produce an all-grain mash, but with only a five-gallon still it seems wiser to get as much alcohol from each run as possible, so I add sugars to increase the yield as most folks do. It does not reduce the grain flavors as far as I can tell. It just doesn't make much sense to me to run a mash with a low ABV. What is your opinion of this?
Fair enough. That's the cool thing about this hobby, make things your way for what you want. Here are my thoughts on the less flavour part. You only have so much "flavour" in the grain. That flavour is diluted by the amount of alcohol you end up taking. More alcohol = less flavour per litre of final alcohol (more alcohol dilutes it). On the flip side, alcohol acts as a carrier to bring flavours over from the pot during dilution, Perhaps distillation is the choke point for flavour? Perhaps there is plenty of the flavours we want in the pot, but we run out of alcohol to bring them over? Which is the major factor? I have no idea. It's an interesting thing to talk about/test though. My gut feeling is that its going to be a mix of both fighting against each other. The other choices we make pushing it in one direction or the other.
what if I didn't want to buy the amylase and enzymes. people did whole grain mashes before those products existed. Do you know how to do it without those products? could I spit some saliva in there to add amylase like indigenous peoples did lol and sproute some grains and pour the enzymes from the sprouting water into it?
I should also add. He talks about alpha and beta. Beta comes from the malted grain. Alpha comes from directly adding the enzyme. The combination of both will improve the amount of available fermentable sugars.
My question is, do you boil the wort and then cool to pitch the yeast, or, not boil after mashing? If it's a 'no boil', then sparging with cold water would bring the temperature down nice an quickly! Great vids by the way.
Thanks mate. So I have not done many all grains for distilling (I came from beer first). Many distillers don't boil, but obviously you open your self up to infection. But then some even say that's a good thing! Good idea on the cold sparge, although the sugar is less soluabke colder. You may loose a little efficiency.
Thanks Denny. I will play safe and do a short boil before chilling and pitching the yeast. Probably add some brown sugar to the boil to increase the ABV. Keep up the good work.
For distilling, the 'safe' rout would be a lower mash temp and not boil. Reason being, that the beta-amylase will continue working and increase fermentability. Using this method and an overnight mash I can easily get a corn/wheat mash to ferment from 1.090 to 0.995. I don't think you will get there if you kill the enzymes with a boil.
Thanks for this informative reply. I make beer from AG and the finishing gravity is usually around 1.010. Do you think that the beta-amylase activity brings the FG to below 1.000? What temp do you set your mash to? I usually do one hour at 67C. Appreciate your input as I'm new to this extension of brewing!
I do a true no boil, so if you are going to soarge, that could work. I don't spare or even lauter. My process goes like this: 1) gelatinize unmarked grains at 90-100C (if using any) 2) add more water to cook to 64C add malted grains (brings temp corn to 63). Rest overnight. 3) in the morning I dilute to desired OG and stir to cool if need, then pitch yeast.
Would it be possible to use 100% malted Rye or malted Wheat in a wash/mash? Would you still need to gelatinize part of the mash/wash for it to work? I have easy access to great Rye and Wheat berries and am looking at malting it myself.
I know this has been up for a while but I just got to it. Bravo my friend! Well paced video on a expansive subject. BTW I posted a link but will send you a pm on HD forum.about an EXCELLENT bourbon vid. One suggestion for your next video of this type. In addition to diastatic calculations I have NO grasp of “the numbers” while you obviously do. When reading forums or watching videos I can tell some people get a “picture” of what’s happening with a mash by seeing SG/OG and FG and instantly seeing potential abv etc. Don’t know if others suffer from the same affliction as me but a video on what these numbers REALLY mean would be a BIG pain in the ass to do in my opinion but a HUGE help. Please.
Another informative vid, thanks man. Good recap for me as a AG brewer.Just wondering about post lauter. Do you boil wort to sterilise or just chill and pitch?
Hey everyone and love your content Jesse learning lots from you🤙🏻. I’m getting into distilling my own Canadian whiskey mash! I’m just wondering is malted and unmelted barley to completely different greens or change in state?
When do we start the 101 lesson class? This was total Preparation, and no H I am still itching for some information - other than how to giggle like a Canuk
Is there a formula you used to figure out home much grain to use to get the gravity you want? Or are you just winging it? If so could u share that formula?
I use beer smith most of the time. Its one of those things that gets complex fast if you want to be accurate. All the grains have different potentials, Whats your mash efficency, dead space in mash tun, liquid lost to grain etc etc etc.
Hey All, I have been a home distiller for almost 5 years. Distilling is legal in my state for personal consumption. I have a 5 gallon still but only distill 3 gallon batches at a time. My original mash was made of Corn (2lbs) and Oats (1lbs). I have had very positive feedback from this. This is my normal procedure. (Grains and/or fruit will change) This last weekend I put together a mash made of Corn Meal (1lbs), Cracked Corn (1lbs), Rye (.5lbs), Oat (.5lbs), Wheat (.5lbs), and Barley (.5lbs). All of this was ground into a meal. This was put into a 5 gallon plastic bucket along with 7lbs of white sugar. I also put 3Tbl spoons of Corn Starch, and .5tsp of Amylase. I heat 1 gallon of distilled water to 180 degrees, then pour it into the bucket and stir till the sugar is dissolved. Once dissolved I let it sit open for about 1 hour, by this time it has gotten pretty thick. Then I pour the other 2 gallons of room temp distilled water in and stir till mixed. Then I let it sit open till it cools down to approx 80 degrees. At this point I add my 1Tbl spoon of DADY, stir in and let sit open for about .5 hour. Now I will add the sealed lid and air lock to the bucket. I let this sit for 12-14 days in a room at 72 or 73 degrees. With this recipe I usually get 5 pints of very tasty Whiskey.
Michael Smith ,, just thought I’d ask,, when u add Rye to ur whiskey recipe/ mash, in what sorta way does that change the outcome/ Flavour,?? Is it more like American style whiskey,? Or still like a scotch type,?? Cheers. Marc
Enzymes work consistently until they are dissolved, or become denatured. When enzymes denature, they are no longer active and cannot function. Extreme temperature and the wrong levels of pH -- a measure of a substance's acidity or alkalinity -- can cause enzymes to become denatured. I am not sure why 101 means low level, but given that this video is aimed at, one would presume, novices I don't understand why terms like mash and denatured are thrown about without defining them.
Actually your water quality is very important. You need water with very little to zero iron content for healthy yeast action. In fact some say it's all about the water.
Easy enough to say good quality potable water is required. Some mineral content is also beneficial to enzyme function and yeast health, Calcium and Magnesium.
Yeah good point. I guess I come from brewing where people get WAY hung up on it. All I meant is it's very very simple to get 90% of the result you can get from water improvement. But now that I think about it I communicated that poorly.
I malt my own grains. I can get a 50lb bag at the local feed store for about 15 U.S. dollars. Not that difficult. If you are married though roasting is more of a challenge because the ole lady ain't gonna let you use the oven.
Water is the FIRST thing you gotta look at! If it ain't running off the north side of the mountain, you might as well piss in it....Says great-grandpa.
Dude, you need a white board, or an animator, or something. Great info, love the delivery (you'd make a great narrator), etc, but I've seen your beard many times before.
HAHA, the beard commentary! Yeah you are right. I know George uses a white board a lot and it seems to help people. Its actually why I put that blackboard up on the wall. But its a bit hard to get to. Will have to sort something else.
Hey, thanks for the shout out Jesse! I'm excited you're getting into all grain. So much fun:-)>
Also, this was the best explanation of enzymes and gelatinization I've ever heard. Great video!
All groovy mate. . . .it's a dang good vid! We need more ;)
I have been making beer for 40 years, and I really expected that you were going to miss a few important points -- you didn't. I am proud of your synopsis. Two things I would like to point out: 1) There are two basic types of malted barley - 2 row and 6 row. The 6 row has WAAY more enzyme potential than 2 row. 2 row can convert itself and some (lets say equal weight) of cereal grain (corn). 2) You mentioned that you mash your whiskey at 50/50. It is a hair-splitting distinction, but bourbon (which is made with sour mash) requires at least 52% to be corn. That having been said, I say use 6 row it has better diastasic power. If you put some 6 row in with all your corn, and very slowly raise it to 156 it goes through a protein conversion at 122F this helps keep it soupy (and not gloppy), then boil it to gelatanize. Cool it to 145 and add the rest of your malt (I say 6 row or distillers malt), and convert your cereal mash for 90 minutes... GREAT INFORMATION...
I must say that years of making beer and bear-ish drinkables: take your secondary grains to 180° F a couple of times and let them Cool to 140°F. Then add 6 row barley. You're good to go.
You can convert the sugars in a sweaty bandana using this method. Oat, corn, rice, quinoa, 145 for 5 mins then 165, 5 mins then 180, then Cool. Repeat. With 2 cycles 96%+ conversation. Then pitch in your 6 row high enzyme barley at 145°F or less. The hover around that 145-150° mark for as long as you are patient. .
Let cool to ambient. Then boil the whole wort. You'll thank me later. This breaks down everything else. And activates all catalysts along the way. Go slowly to the boil. You're going to ferment for 3 days to 3 weeks. What's your hurry.
This is slow medicine. Nurture it.
Great video Jesse lots of good information I always ferment on the grain then filter though a straining bag which I put into a mop squeezer I bought just for this purpose when finished I have a hard dry brick of spent grain. The mop squeezer hangs right on the side of whatever bucket or drum you're using just rinse it off and keep it away from your wife until next time. Have a great day and thanks for your help.
"Malt does more than Milton can, to justify God's ways with man." Milton didn't teach me how to distill potables either, but you sure did.
As a brewer all grain is sort of basic for me, but i imagine that for anyone that have never touched the subject before this would be very, very informative and helpfull
Yep agreed! I guess it's kinda 101 for brewing. But more intimidating for entry distillers. My guess is because of the want to make 50+ % corn grist's. I think most brewers would run into trouble there too. Probably more on the practical side than the theory I guess.
Yeah, on the theory side, only differences ifound in switching over from brewing were;
1) maximize fermentability because any non fermented sugars are more or less wasted, solow temps long mashes and no boil (to this end commercial enzymes are the cats meow)
2) no sparging, you just ferment on the grain then distill on the grain (if you can electrical elements don't always play nice with grain bits). This also increases sugar usage as you are not losing any to the grain.
Man I would take classes from you if you offered them and I was in NZ. Your videos are so informative for this new guy to get up the learning curve.
Glad I discovered your channel. Great explanation thanks.
Cheers mate
Mate you inspired me last year to try an all grain with your bastard whiskey vid. I’m knocking up a hell of a corn whiskey with heavy peat smoked barley, aged on charcoal and heavy char American oak. Again got the oak ideas from yet another vid you did. Keep going, I’m keen to see a thumper in action next!
As I'm new to distilling and still working my way thru old uploads, this 1 really relates. I'm getting ready to start a few all grain runs... Wheat, corn and rye mixtures, all with 6 row barley added. Ol' George, Barley and Hops, also has a great video about using alpha and beta amalase. Thanks Jesse ! Enjoying the hell out of the old vids ! Cheers 👍
Awesome mate, glad they help
Yup, that´s about it. As a brewer I like my mash on the higher end like 67-68 for a more malty and thicker beer. Cheers
Yep gotta keep some body! U fermentables are a bit wasted on distillers haha.
Thank you, I am new to the hobby and your channel has been one of my main resources to walk through this steep learning curve. This video in specific cleared up all my confusion on grain mash. Thanks again for what you do.
Great overview, well explained and simplified. I like Distillers Malt with my corn mash, I think it adds to the flavor profile more than liquid enzymes do.
I would imagine you may be right there!
Hi Jamie. I’m a beer brewer and really enjoy your videos. It’s great that you refer to beer as well during your videos. I watch your current stuff but went back to look at a couple of your malt, grain, mash videos as I love the science. I’m not even sure if you’ll see this comment. Thank you. Robert
Hey Jesse, great show,I very much appreciate all the free info that I get outta still it. I can only imagine all the books that I've not had to read,thanks to you
Hi Jesse, worked my way through your back catalogue and I gotta say, you have done a fantastic job of repackaging the cluttered and tangled bits of information available on the forums and put them together into a readily comprehensible chunk. Well done. Looking forward to seeing what you continue to add to this channel.
Thanks man I appreciate that!
Jesse, I've recently been looking into all grain mashes and trying to understand them.. Of course i found you in the process! This was a great explanation considering I had figured out what amylase was but didn't understand how to get it working or where it was coming from .... other than the packets amazon kept trying to sell me.... not sure that's the rabbit hole I wanted to go down as a new craftsman.. I can see the appeal as it would be faster but as we know faster isn't always better... thanks again Jesse big thumbs up for this vid!
This is a great video. This was the an amazing explanation.
Cheers mate 🥃
Great breakdown! I just put my first whisky on wood this week (made an awful video about it) and it's not exactly what I'm looking for so I'm looking forward to see how you get on with your grain mashes to pick up some tips. Great work, Jesse!
Awesome dude! Is the vid on this account?? I'll check it when I get home.
Give it time my man. It may not end up being exactly what you wanted. But I'm sure time will be kind to it!
Yeah man! I'd love any feedback if you have a chance to have a quick look at it. I've had a lot of colour come through in only a few days and the smell is starting change so hopefully with time it will evolve even more. I don't know if I can leave links here but here it is > ua-cam.com/video/Mk_FO1QQqKg/v-deo.html Cheers!
Sounds awesome! Please keep us updated.
Yeah no danger man have at it! I'll check it out now :)
.....or not apparently the link does not work from inside the yt studio app haha. I'll check on the computer later 👍
Def be watching closely. I have been having the WORST conversion efficiencies with my all grain mashes. My last batch of George Washington Rye I only ended up with roughly 6% abv when I was expecting upwards of 12. Great job so far with everything so far Jesse. I'll actually be wearing my still it shirt to work tonight haha.
Huh...... interesting man.
Are you fermenting on grain?
If not are you sparging?
Haha awesome! Represent!
nope, not fermenting on grain and I did do a sparge. I was using flaked corn and cracked rye so as to avoid a stuck mash with flaked rye. Everything I've read says that the gelatination temp for Rye is mashing temp so I used the flaked corn to avoid having to do a boil/cereal cook. I even added extra amalyse just to boost my brewers barley enzyme power. I may have to give flaked rye a try next time or see if my brewers supply house can get in malted rye for me or just do a cereal cook anyways. I had nto heard before about flaked grains not being fully gelatenized before so who knows. Part of the fun of all this I guess is trying different things to get around a problem. Even with having to augment with sugar to get up to 15% the flavor and nose is still good.
Yeah cool man. I don't see anything specific wrong.
What were the weights of all the grain? Total water after sparge? What are you calculating your SG with? What brewhouse / mash eficency are you aiming for?
Always hated sparging flaked maize. Ended up having to ring out everything to get the enzymes and sugars out into the wash. Have had much better results cooking the cereal grains for an hour or two. Or at least ferment on the grain so you get as much enzymes as possible into your fermenter.
Is it that it's not converting or that it's not fermenting out?
I believe, with 2 row barley at least, they are able to convert up to 6x their weight in grain. I’ve always used 3lbs of 2 row for every 15lbs of corn. Never had a problem, and I just used plain ole red star bread yeast.
I have 10kg of corn from a stock feeds joint, waiting on amylase from ebay - gonna have a go!!
Perfect timing on the video Jessie as I am currently gathering all my needs for my first grain mash. I've been doing cornflake sugar washes with great success, but it's time to move on. I'm going to cheat a little at first as I'm going to use the liquid enzymes before I move on to all grain. I'm going to use steamed flaked corn and see how that works out. My question to you and the board is "Is there a difference in the mash ABV, all other things being equal, between feed corn or using food grade corn"? Keep up the good job Jessie!
Awesome dude! I wouldn't say it's cheating. Just different.
I'm going to guess there will be a slight difference. But I couldn't tell you exactly what it would be.
Gary, Your ABV will be a result of the amount of starch contained in the corn and how good of a conversion you achieve. If your conversion is low just add a little sugar to bring it up. I have always had excellent results using high quality feed corn.
Thanks for the response Bill, I eat sweet corn regularly when in season. I've tried feed or field corn a couple of times just for shits and giggles. It's terrible. So my thinking was that with sweet corn being so much more flavorful, that it would make a better drip.
I use crappy "dent" feed grade corn. It works amazingly well if you give it sufficient time to hydrate and gelatanize (basically hold it right around boiling for 2 hours before using enzymes).
Dent corn is uber cheap too
Its my understanding that sweet corn is picked earlier before all the sugars have been converted to starch. Therefore with enzyme use there should be no difference.
As always Jesse, stella video and awesome content!!
Thanks buddy!!
Wort chiller or Aussie over night. On distillates it’s doesn’t matter You can also malt your corn etc. it just takes longer.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of how you do all grain mash. I have done a couple of them now. Also I have watched Bearded & Bored malting corn, really good introduction to moulting your own corn. I have also used non molted grain and have also tried using oatmeal, using alfa amilyes only. I have not been able to get the beta amylase. Never thought of adding molted barley. (thank you for the inspiration). Want to find out how to get the mash above 5%. to 7% .Alright for beer, not any good for Spirits.I had to add processed sugar each time to get gravity points to 14% to 15% . You have inspired me to do a corn and molted barley mash. I will wait till I find out how I may be able to increase the gravity points using all grain. Or reduce the quantity of processed sugar. Once again Thanks Jess for you chanel.
Awesome man. Sounds like you are chasing the craft pretty hard!!
If you have trouble with getting the desired abv you can either ask a professional brewer, or double mash, which is what I would do. You could also get a strain of barley that's been made to get the most sugar out of it, but older strains of barley like Bere and golden promise do actually give a higher quality of spirit.
LOVE your videos. I'm absorbing so much info about this hobby that I've never even thought about before. I'm saving up some money so that when i dive in head first I won't have to sell my car to keep chasing the craft. Thanks so much! Your passion radiates through your videos.
Do you know of any processes that involve *koji* as the enzyme for gelatinized grains/starches? Sake production uses a parallel "fermentation" of yeast and koji simultaneously (essentially the enzymes work at the same time as the yeast throughout fermentation). The enzymes produced in koji are certainly not specific to rice (it's used in conjunction with everything from black beans to raw beef!). There is the concern, however, that because, the enzymes produced in koji are SO versatile, it would end up breaking down and impart your wort with undesirable proteins. Regardless, I'd be interested to see if anyone out there has experimented with a whiskey style mash --> distillate using koji. Or, really, any other type of distillate besides one that's just rice based.
Cheers!
Larry
This is what I need really bad, cans I put alpha and Bata at the same time. I have been doing alpha at 145 to 155 for about an hour,then put Bata inn at 145 then let temp drop slow tell 77deg F. I check it with iodine, it seams to be working, this is what I need and see it done ✅👍
Jesse, I am watching older videos because I am suffering from Still-it Withdrawal Syndrome!
You mashed at a temp that is below alpha enzyme conversion temperature range. Since the alpha enzyme chops up the longer chain starches into shorter chains so that the beta enzymes can do their work, it seems like you would get less fermentable sugars (lower gravity) using your suggested 62C mash temp. Why is this preferred for distilling? My source is John Palmer’s excellent book How to Brew chapter 14 (first edition).
Thanks for a Stellar Channel on Chasing the Craft!
Hey man would love to see you do a potato vodka!!! Not sure if you have tried it yet but I would love to see it done!!!!
O think the easiest way to look at it is to get your corn to a simmer for 45 minutes or so. It will turn thick like porage. Add water as you go and stir. After that keep stirring and watch the temperature. When you hit the top end of the enzyme heat level 150 f. if I remember stir in your maoted barely. Let that sit, not heat and as the temperature drops the different enzymes do their job. Once it hits pitching temp add more water and pitch. Then just keep your yeast happy and away you go.
I want to do a wheat whiskey like my favorite makers Mark but don't know where to begin can you do a wheat brew plz
I can look at that for sure. May take a while, but I will get to it ;)
Have you found anymore info on the wheat mash?
If I had a very large still I'd be much more tempted to produce an all-grain mash, but with only a five-gallon still it seems wiser to get as much alcohol from each run as possible, so I add sugars to increase the yield as most folks do. It does not reduce the grain flavors as far as I can tell. It just doesn't make much sense to me to run a mash with a low ABV. What is your opinion of this?
Fair enough. That's the cool thing about this hobby, make things your way for what you want.
Here are my thoughts on the less flavour part.
You only have so much "flavour" in the grain. That flavour is diluted by the amount of alcohol you end up taking. More alcohol = less flavour per litre of final alcohol (more alcohol dilutes it).
On the flip side, alcohol acts as a carrier to bring flavours over from the pot during dilution, Perhaps distillation is the choke point for flavour? Perhaps there is plenty of the flavours we want in the pot, but we run out of alcohol to bring them over?
Which is the major factor? I have no idea. It's an interesting thing to talk about/test though. My gut feeling is that its going to be a mix of both fighting against each other. The other choices we make pushing it in one direction or the other.
what if I didn't want to buy the amylase and enzymes. people did whole grain mashes before those products existed. Do you know how to do it without those products? could I spit some saliva in there to add amylase like indigenous peoples did lol and sproute some grains and pour the enzymes from the sprouting water into it?
In place of directly adding amylase, malted grains are necessary. The ratio of malted grain to non malted is a whole ‘nother conversation.
I should also add. He talks about alpha and beta. Beta comes from the malted grain. Alpha comes from directly adding the enzyme. The combination of both will improve the amount of available fermentable sugars.
I would so buy a still it hat. Jus sayin. Lol cheers from Corpus Christi Texas
My question is, do you boil the wort and then cool to pitch the yeast, or, not boil after mashing? If it's a 'no boil', then sparging with cold water would bring the temperature down nice an quickly! Great vids by the way.
Thanks mate.
So I have not done many all grains for distilling (I came from beer first).
Many distillers don't boil, but obviously you open your self up to infection. But then some even say that's a good thing!
Good idea on the cold sparge, although the sugar is less soluabke colder. You may loose a little efficiency.
Thanks Denny. I will play safe and do a short boil before chilling and pitching the yeast. Probably add some brown sugar to the boil to increase the ABV. Keep up the good work.
For distilling, the 'safe' rout would be a lower mash temp and not boil. Reason being, that the beta-amylase will continue working and increase fermentability.
Using this method and an overnight mash I can easily get a corn/wheat mash to ferment from 1.090 to 0.995. I don't think you will get there if you kill the enzymes with a boil.
Thanks for this informative reply. I make beer from AG and the finishing gravity is usually around 1.010. Do you think that the beta-amylase activity brings the FG to below 1.000? What temp do you set your mash to? I usually do one hour at 67C. Appreciate your input as I'm new to this extension of brewing!
I do a true no boil, so if you are going to soarge, that could work. I don't spare or even lauter. My process goes like this:
1) gelatinize unmarked grains at 90-100C (if using any)
2) add more water to cook to 64C add malted grains (brings temp corn to 63). Rest overnight.
3) in the morning I dilute to desired OG and stir to cool if need, then pitch yeast.
Good video. Would of liked to see the process tho. Thanks for the videos regardless.
Yeah, there will be more videos to show it as well :) . . . eventually haha
Awesome video as always jesse. Hows your big ferment of bobs rum going?
Yep all fermented out down to 1021:)
Giss a yell when your running the rum. Interested as hell
Would it be possible to use 100% malted Rye or malted Wheat in a wash/mash? Would you still need to gelatinize part of the mash/wash for it to work?
I have easy access to great Rye and Wheat berries and am looking at malting it myself.
I know this has been up for a while but I just got to it.
Bravo my friend! Well paced video on a expansive subject. BTW I posted a link but will send you a pm on HD forum.about an EXCELLENT bourbon vid.
One suggestion for your next video of this type.
In addition to diastatic calculations
I have NO grasp of “the numbers” while you obviously do.
When reading forums or watching videos I can tell some people get a “picture” of what’s happening with a mash by seeing SG/OG and FG and instantly seeing potential abv etc.
Don’t know if others suffer from the same affliction as me but a video on what these numbers REALLY mean would be a BIG pain in the ass to do in my opinion but a HUGE help.
Please.
Fun question. Made an all corn mash with amazes powder. 3 days in SG went up. Is this normal?
Another informative vid, thanks man. Good recap for me as a AG brewer.Just wondering about post lauter. Do you boil wort to sterilise or just chill and pitch?
I guess that depends who you talk too! Haha.
I have seen people do it both ways and say it works great.
Hey everyone and love your content Jesse learning lots from you🤙🏻. I’m getting into distilling my own Canadian whiskey mash! I’m just wondering is malted and unmelted barley to completely different greens or change in state?
When do we start the 101 lesson class? This was total Preparation, and no H
I am still itching for some information - other than how to giggle like a Canuk
I'll be honest. . . . . I have no idea what you are try to say 🤔😊
So simple bro... ;)
The thumbnail?
Is there a formula you used to figure out home much grain to use to get the gravity you want? Or are you just winging it? If so could u share that formula?
I use beer smith most of the time. Its one of those things that gets complex fast if you want to be accurate. All the grains have different potentials, Whats your mash efficency, dead space in mash tun, liquid lost to grain etc etc etc.
@@StillIt is that an app or web site?
An app mate, honestly it's overkill for distilling. More for beer.
New sub! Awesome stuff! What is a fortnight?
Fortnight = Two weeks
God of home brew
Hey All, I have been a home distiller for almost 5 years. Distilling is legal in my state for personal consumption. I have a 5 gallon still but only distill 3 gallon batches at a time.
My original mash was made of Corn (2lbs) and Oats (1lbs). I have had very positive feedback from this.
This is my normal procedure. (Grains and/or fruit will change)
This last weekend I put together a mash made of Corn Meal (1lbs), Cracked Corn (1lbs), Rye (.5lbs), Oat (.5lbs), Wheat (.5lbs), and Barley (.5lbs). All of this was ground into a meal.
This was put into a 5 gallon plastic bucket along with 7lbs of white sugar.
I also put 3Tbl spoons of Corn Starch, and .5tsp of Amylase.
I heat 1 gallon of distilled water to 180 degrees, then pour it into the bucket and stir till the sugar is dissolved.
Once dissolved I let it sit open for about 1 hour, by this time it has gotten pretty thick.
Then I pour the other 2 gallons of room temp distilled water in and stir till mixed.
Then I let it sit open till it cools down to approx 80 degrees.
At this point I add my 1Tbl spoon of DADY, stir in and let sit open for about .5 hour.
Now I will add the sealed lid and air lock to the bucket.
I let this sit for 12-14 days in a room at 72 or 73 degrees.
With this recipe I usually get 5 pints of very tasty Whiskey.
One of the lucky ones 👍👍
what state it be legal in? Should be in all hell it's in our gas now.
LEGAL IN mo
Your grammar is wrong. The title should read: How an all grain Mash works.
What about using amylase instead of malt? I always find it easier and cheaper.
Denny Stake what im asking is if it can be addressed in his videos...there are many methods to obtaining the best mash possible.
Yep I'll do it sometime for sure! I actually tried a little while back but sourcing the enzymes was a bit tricky here 👍🤔
When I make my mashes ( corn, barley, rye mixes) or Scotch mix ( Braley, rye ) always do a double Decoction
Nice. I actually had a little play with that for that mystery mash.
Michael Smith ,, just thought I’d ask,, when u add Rye to ur whiskey recipe/ mash, in what sorta way does that change the outcome/ Flavour,?? Is it more like American style whiskey,? Or still like a scotch type,?? Cheers. Marc
Enzymes work consistently until they are dissolved, or become denatured. When enzymes denature, they are no longer active and cannot function. Extreme temperature and the wrong levels of pH -- a measure of a substance's acidity or alkalinity -- can cause enzymes to become denatured.
I am not sure why 101 means low level, but given that this video is aimed at, one would presume, novices I don't understand why terms like mash and denatured are thrown about without defining them.
Actually your water quality is very important. You need water with very little to zero iron content for healthy yeast action. In fact some say it's all about the water.
Easy enough to say good quality potable water is required. Some mineral content is also beneficial to enzyme function and yeast health, Calcium and Magnesium.
Yeah good point. I guess I come from brewing where people get WAY hung up on it.
All I meant is it's very very simple to get 90% of the result you can get from water improvement. But now that I think about it I communicated that poorly.
If you have a spring near by you are in good shape. I have one but its about 60 mi from here but its a nice drive.
So that's what I was meaning dude. Spring in your area may be amazing for fermentation. But in another part of the world perhaps it's only ok.
I malt my own grains. I can get a 50lb bag at the local feed store for about 15 U.S. dollars. Not that difficult.
If you are married though roasting is more of a challenge because the ole lady ain't gonna let you use the oven.
Try a pillowcase and the clothes dryer
that sound to simple but I will give it a go
Make Mash, Make Beer, Make Booze!
You forgot the last step of that for the non kiwis "Break Law" 🤣🤣
Water is the FIRST thing you gotta look at! If it ain't running off the north side of the mountain, you might as well piss in it....Says great-grandpa.
Bahaha that is awesome!
I can't find the the Florida mountains
Haven't you ever seen "I Dream of Jeanie"? There's a mountain range right there in Cocoa Beach! ;-)
Awesome man! Good things your Prime Minister is back to work after paternity leave! 😂
Haha right? Back to work country!
I think you mean MAternity leave... :-p
Dude, you need a white board, or an animator, or something. Great info, love the delivery (you'd make a great narrator), etc, but I've seen your beard many times before.
HAHA, the beard commentary! Yeah you are right. I know George uses a white board a lot and it seems to help people. Its actually why I put that blackboard up on the wall. But its a bit hard to get to. Will have to sort something else.