Cycling in 2023: Decline of GCN | Pressfit Binned | LTWOO and Sensah
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Here are my predictions for one of the most corrupt industries on the planet.
GCN (Global Cycling Network) is going downhill
Pressfit is going into a freefall decline
The influx of brands from the far east
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Interesting video... Two cents here - Shimano made a big mistake making their 105 groupset electronic. The market really doesn't support three levels of super expensive product, and while they'll most likely release an 11 speed mechanical Tiagra to fill the void, they've lost the product value, volumes and reputation that 105 had.
I think it's a good bet, because chinese groupsets are quickly catching up. Ltwoo had only just released their fully hydraulic. So better to shift (no pun intended) their focus on electronic gs instead of competing in such an evergrowing competitive market.
PS: I'm still running 105 rimbrakes on my alloy frame. All I'm saying is it's an eventuality. Carbon frames were such a star trek technology in the 90's and 00's, now it's an industry standard. Who knows?
An average cyclist using electronic groupset is just STUPID
Utterly nonsense. People had been craving for the 105 Di2. They got it. But they don't like the price point. That's the real problem.
@@Garfie1d73 craving in an idiotic consumerist sense and actually needing or benefitting from are two completely different things.
@@ironmantooltime Electronic gears might be the best upgrade I've made, other than wheels. I only realized it once it tried cabled gears(grx) a year later, just how much nicer it is with electronics. But it is sad that 105 is now so expensive and newbs to the sport has to cough up 2500-3500$ for a new entry level bike.
Disc/Rim-brakes, now there I might think there is close to zero advantages.
To be fair to GCN, their Race Pass is the best thing to happen to cycling in a long time. They offer so much coverage, uninterrupted, in many different languages, for a very affordable price. I don't care much about their UA-cam channel (which is pretty much only sponsored content now) or the documentaries, but they could charge double for their race coverage, and I'd still buy it.
+1 :) Very thankful for the Race Pass too. Lots of races which were not available here before.
I agree - the YT content has been crap for years - but their race coverage is good
but its just what Eurosport has always been
Depends where you live. In our country the pass won't get you the TDF , Giro or Vuelta.
@@nigelliam153 local contracts with other broadcasters can block it, and that happens with anything streaming (netflix, etc), unfortunately it's just how it is... but there's always VPN to help with that hehehe
I'm probably in the minority here, but I have always enjoyed the free GCN and GCN Tech channels, especially when Jon Canning was the host (Hambini was a guest!). I've also understood that their business model relied on sponsored content and they've been up front about it. The quality of production and story telling is professional, engaging, and educational too. They have verbalised that they do NOT do reviews and a "sponsored" disclaimer is always displayed before a product is featured. I don't know how else you can have a FREE cycling entertainment channel at that level without a giving a paycheck to all the presenters and staff? I hope they continue to succeed, perhaps expanding to more languages if the English channel has hit saturation. Everyone watching Hambini should be smart enough to know the difference between a sponsored entertainment channel versus an independent commentary channel.
I agree with you. I find lots of the videos on UA-cam entertaining (the recent ride across Italy was very nice and I don't care if Wilier was a sponsor) and GCN+ not only has excellent race coverage which I just don't get at all otherwise here in North America but also some great documentaries--who else has ever done the history of the two biggest steel tubing companies? All media outlets are suffering--many of my car magazines have vanished in print format--and GCN may have reached market saturation, as Hambini truthfully points out. I enjoy the German GCN as well and even watch GTN as I like the presenters even if I will never do a triathlon.
@@Sprocketboy1956 GCN+ coverage has been a game changer! With a VPN, there are more hours of racing than I can possibly watch. I love their documentaries too. So affordable too.
Of course it is all personal thing and it depends how long "always" is. I am grateful for early days of GCN (when Matt was there), because they played major role for my conversion to dropbar, but after few years repetition of materials became too obvious. As for "free" -- IMHO it is not the crucial factor. If get for "free" something useless, then it would be burden, not a help, thus I rather opt for not getting this or that, even if it is "free". In short, it has to have added value. English GCN has lost this (for me), but I watch Spanish one :-) hoping I learn some language :-D.
@@WanderABit "Always" means from day one with from Martin Ashton's Road Bike Party to Si Richardson's awkward first days and Dan Lloyd's bad haircut. I'm reluctant to criticize anything free. I find it interesting people are critical of sponsors in cycling entertainment...have you seen what all the writing is on the jerseys of the pro riders? Yet, no one has to pay to watch a grand tour in person.
I mean gcn is not very entertaining but more tries to just inform, if they actually had and still produced entertaini g content they probably would have had much greater youtube success
GCN (Global Cycling Network) is going downhill and disc brakes won't stop them!
Watch the German gcn, amazing video topics
For some reason I read this in Oliver Bridgewood's voice 🤔
@@slasher9883 hahahahah, nice one
Awesome... and they are pushing 'the big lie' about disk brakes and tubeless, helping to solve problems that never previously existed.
@Ryan Terence They are still complicit in hyping disk brakes and being superior to rim when that is NOT the case at all.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this vid. Cycling is supposed to be affordable and hence accessible to all but many major cycling manufacturers have become greedy and have made their bikes unaffordable thus causing people to look for more affordable alternatives. Bring on the Chinese revolution 👍🏾
Agreed wholeheartedly. I work in the bike shop and know all ins and outs of the industry. There's no reason in hell for bikes to cost this much these days. Nothing can justify these lunatic asking prices. I feel really sorry for newcomers - they have literally no choice other than buying second hand.
Or second-hand but perfectly able machines. What's being pushed is not the engineering prowess to continue to build wonderful machines that help you escape, and commute, but the *racing* aspect. That market is gullible and prone fads. It's the enduring market that will count in the long-run, and very few 'improvements' over the last few decades has really changed things for the better. The bikes from the eighties and nineties were pretty close to what you can get now, some even better, but of course, that doesn't appeal to people who dress like canaries.
Staggering isn't it, take a motorcycle for instance, the amount of r&d that goes into the motor to meet emissions regulations must be huge, the suspension, brakes and handling testing, and you can buy one for less than a highish end pushbike, it's mad. The manufacturers (or someone) must be making a huge profit.
@@Thebowber If you lay the motorcycle down at bicycle speeds you can pick it up a drive home , lay down your carbon superbike and you better be rich and lucky . Yes hug profits are being made but on the backs of cyclist who run to pay 6 grand for a Dura Ace groupset and carbon frames with misaligned bottom brackets and questionable carbon lay up ..
@@waynesbutler7834 Just like pushbikes, it depends on the bike. I've seen thousands of pounds worth of damage done to motorcycles just from falling over, and sometimes they couldn't be ridden home. But that doesn't detract from my original point about r&d costs vs sale price.
Spot on about bike prices. Was happy to spend a couple of grand in the past, always had nice bikes with some very nice parts. £2k looks absolute daylight robbery in terms of what you get in return these days - I could swap my 7kg bike with SRAM Red for something considerably more expensive, that's considerably heavier, with entry or mid-level parts at best. No thanks. Doubt I'll be buying a new bike ever again, cycle industry can get fucked.
If it is working flawlessly and is still giving you joy, why would you swap it for something new? Pressure from club mates?
Hear Hear! I bought my Canyon Ultimate CF SL back in 2017 with an Ultegra groupset for £1850 delivered! Bonkers!
I have multiple bikes including a Synapse with Di2 and discs, I actually got that for a steal in terms of price but my finest 2 bikes by far are my little known, Quintana Roo : Split R, that cost me £1600 in 2010 and came with a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra, it also had carbon seat post and bars that was very rare back at that time, the bike is comfortable as hell and super stiff and still rides like it did the day I bought it, I just upgrade parts as they wear out. My other fave bike is my 1982 Colnago Super with Super Record and Delta brakes, I did change the downtube shifters to STI’s though as the bike is so comfortable to ride.
Couldn't agree more. I came back to Canada and had to leave my main Trek/Ultegra road bike in Mexico. I was looking for a new bike for my stay here. I couldn't believe how cheaply built the sub $2,000 bikes were in comparison. I decided to check out Facebook marketplace and in short order I picked up an older Brodie Bandit hardtail for only $270.00 CDN in like new condition. I then decided to convert it to an eBike. I added a CYC X1 Stealth 1,500 watt mid-drive motor, Box 2 Prime 9 - 1 x 9 eBike drive train and a 21ah/52V battery from ElectrifyBike. Total cost was less than a new bike with a Ultegra groupset. Now I have about 7,000 km on the build. It has been so good I didn't bother renewing my insurance for my van since I've only driven it about a half dozen times in the past year. Almost all of my friends are now looking to build their own version of my build. None of them are looking to buy a new bike. I converted an old Huffy trike to a trailer for shopping, errands, etc. which pretty much eliminated the need for a vehicle. I can comfortably pull the trailer at 50kph. I don't even notice it behind me. The new motor tech coming out of China is game changing. I'm now building eBikes for my friends.
@@82vitt Swap wasn't the right term - should have said "add". Tend to keep bikes indefinitely, but occasionally nice to have something new to play with.
The math doesn’t add up. You started making videos over 5 years ago.. one would think you’d me at least 6 years old by now
He had to go back a year at school
He's really one of the Simpsons in disguise.
No, it doesn´t add up. Questions?? Rgr
GCN lost it's magic for me when Matt Stephens left ....... seemed to signal the downturn, haven't watched a complete episode since.
Then after that, when John Canning stopped presenting videos.
As someone in the Danish bike trade, I predict that sales of ludicrously expensive high end bikes generally are going to continue falling through the floor as people continue to tighten their belts. I would also agree that e-bikes are going to eat into the more expensive segment.
Shimano and SRAM will probably also continue to lose market share as their stability of supply has been (and appears to be continuing to be) atrocious. SunRace cassettes are everywhere these days, filling the gap. The shop I work at uses Connex as our "standard" 8 and 9 speed chain for the same reason (they also happen to be better chains, period).
Women spend 80% or so of money. The high end bike is a male Birkin bag. It's a status thing to be mounted to a Range Rover. Cycling marketers/advertisers focus on that market. The LBS parrots that. We in the proletariat are left to the scraps. No longer.
One doesn't even have to look at the stats to realize that today's present 'got to have' market is held up by its own petard.
The market that will endure is the one that sells products that will endure, and the major segment of which is sold to people who want value, and endurance from their investment.
There's still a very large market for *mid-priced sensible machines*. Take a look at the Classic market as an indicator of what has enduring appeal. You can ride an incredibly comfortable, enduring, stable and *easy to service* machine based on that template.
The only production improvements really are weldable frames (yes, steel!) due to alloy development, index shifting, combined brake/shift levers...and not much else. As recently as a year ago, I would have added 'freehubs vs freewheels'...but even that is becoming contentious save for the dearth of quality freewheels available now.
Why is that so many (non-racers) need so many gears? Think about it. Humans have a wider torque curve than most tuned racing engines. It's rare that racing cars have more than six manual gears.
I think penis size is mixed in there somewhere, and a sense of inadequacy. Then again, I still ride 3X cranksets. They have a lot of advantages, if you know how to set them up, and use your gears. But alas...
@@anthonylarson7919 this is fair comment. 10 years ago people would be buying an S-Works Tarmac and putting Durano Plus tyres on their superlight wheel upgrades - with anti-puncture strips. It's only gotten worse since then.
How I yearn sometimes for the 90s, when it all still made sense and the golf crowd was where it belonged - on the golf course.
@@stephensaines7100 Road bikes peaked in about 98 IMHO. Everything since then has been Fugly.
I've had a great run with sunrace MTB cassettes.
20 years ago, magazines were effectively paid for by advertisements, and that continues to be the case. Advertisers would pull their budget if you criticised their product. Your magazine would then struggle to be a viable concern. I had hoped that online content producers would have avoided that business model, but the majority are being sucked into this model again. Objective content, like yours is so hard to come by. Long may it continue.
Mate I agree totally. At least GCN is a little more transparent than they used to be ad advertorial. Some of their YT content is plain daft these days but its what you have to do to get ahead of the YT algorithm. I think they need to find a balance between the new and old school presenters.
What business model do you suggest instead that produces the same amount and quality of content that gcn, for example, produces? Subscription? How much would you pay?
That's a good point. When I started to get in to cycling in the mid 80's I started a Bicycling subscription and read it cover to cover(I still really miss the old Bike Nashbar ads). I kept up the subscription for over 20 years when I realised I wasn't even opening the magazines much less reading an article
Lots of one man shows that get funded by their audience (Patreon) can purchase gear that's not hand picked, and give a good or bad rating for something. That is the future of reviews worth watching.
Yes magazines used 'bike tests' as advertising for years. But they don't make bikes nearly as well as they did decades ago. Marketing BS now fools lots of gullible consumers.
In the '90s there were a few mtb magazines that pulled very few punches in reviews, merely because this was the time that the proverbial shit hit the fan. There was lots of using consumers as Guinea pigs just like now. But mtb was pushing limits and some of the suspension designs were plain incompetent and unsafe!
I had witnessed the industry since the '70s as a serious tourist and racer. Cycling has been my lifelong lifestyle. I was a machinist, then an inspector during the '90s at Rockshox. I've seen lots of dirty little secrets in this industry for years.
My favorite publications were the ones that told stories about various riding experiences. Dirt Rag and Bike Magazine were my favorites.
What's most important is the rider, not the freakin bike!
The '90s, the mtb boom, the corporatizing and manufacturing moving to Asia is when QC and actual engineering in most of the bike industry began to go downhill.
RIP GCN. While they played a role in developing my love for cycling during the Lloyd/Stephens/Richardson days, they've transformed into an advertising platform. What I appreciate with the British channels is that they are required to declare videos as sponsored. This saves me a lot of time and lets me skip trash. On the other hand, I genuinely enjoy their films over at GCN+.
Agree with the CN brands! Having a blast with my Elves and Elitewheels bike.
I concur doctor
Exactly the same with me, started cycling when GCN was at its greatest, when stephens was still there, and then it slowly fallen and now i almost never watch any of their videos. But the GCN+ documentaries are still very interesting and enjoyable!
The way I see the current media landscape: GCN and the like for short videos (when sitting on the toilet, waiting for the bus etc), glossy paper mags like Rouleur and Cranked for proper late night reading with a cup of tea and yt channels like this, Mapdec, Peak Torque for in depth tech stuff and honest reviews.
Bang-on ..... Lloyd/Stephens/Richardson, were far and away the most interesting/informative/enjoyable episodes, I've hardly watched any GCN content since.
@@gregtaylor6146 Two of those three are still there. I didn't start watching them until after Stephens left. I like some of their YT stuff, but it is really their race pass which does it for me.
Cycling industry has been slowly pricing themselves out of the market over the last 2 years. Worked in a local bike shop from the moment the pandemic hit until recently as a service manager and technician. The overall package offered from the major manufacturers for complete bike builds compared to price is laughable. A “decent” bike specd with 105 and aluminum wheels at $3500-$4000 is sad.
Yep. My complete DIY eBike build with a high-end components cost less than a decent new bike. For about $3,000 I have a 1500watt X1 Stealth motor, 1 x 9 Box 2 drivetrain, 21ah battery, installed on a used Brodie Bandit hard tail I picked up for $270.00. The new torque sensor on this motor is so smooth and sensitive to my pedal pressure it is a huge pleasure to ride. With the Box drivetrain I can practically climb a wall. I live in BC and love to ride in the mountains and this combo is off the charts fun. Mostly however I commute on it and just use it as a replacement for my van because I just don't drive my van anymore. Mind you the trailer I built out of an old Huffy trike is what really eliminated the vehicle. I stick to the speed limit of 32kph in town but when I am out in the country where I live I can ramp it up to 50kph very comfortably and even do my interval sprints at up to 60kph. I'm 66 years old with over 200,000 km racked up on my old road bike. No apologies from me for going electric.
just bought my first ever road bike this year for around 1800USD, 105 disc brake carbon frame.
One of the honest and well presented cycling information video I've watched in a very long time. Brilliantly put together with lots a very valid point.
This is why i will never stop watching you Hambini. Straight talking and no BS. Peak Torque also speaks your language
My other thought on this is BB86 and 386 evo etc work extremely well are light and easy to fit, it’s just sad that the factories can’t always make a round hole that is in-line and not pear shaped to allow these simple products to work correctly
Spot on for GCN. It was great when they had Matt Stephens and even Emma Pooley - but those guys left. Must be a reason why.
Olli and Si are honestly the only 2 I can stand to watch lol
@@channul4887 short folks syndrome
Olli is the reason I stopped watching.
I still follow Chris Opie after he left, solid bloke.
I couldn't stand Pooley and never understood the people fanboying on about her. Meh. Connor is the same, terrible presenter. Matt Stephens and Last were GCN gold and it's a damn shame MS left and Lasty got benched. Ollie and Hank are gold to watch and Si is very consistently putting out great vids too. Too bad Opie left but I follow his channel directly anyway.
A return to the mean. Feels like a repeat of the late 90's/ early 2000's. Lots of bicycle companies either going out of business or being acquired. Should be fun to watch how everyone adapts.
That's one of the things I've seen here in Vegas and I'm sure it's being seen all over the country. The local bike shops are being bought out by the big name brands. My favorite bike shop here, McGhie's, is now a Trek store and we've also had Giant come in and buy out stores. I'm wondering how long the big brand name stores will be able to hold on. If I was looking to buy a bike, I probably wouldn't go to a brand store. I'd probably head to one of the remained locally owned shops.
Hey Hambini, wondering if you could explore the production cost of electronic vs mechanical groupsets. It seems like electronic should actually be cheaper or on par with mechanical given the reduction in precise machining and assembly needed in the hoods. Electronic buttons and servos, especially if they buy off the shelf, are comparatively cheap, no? The price of quartz vs mechanical watches makes me wonder - are they pulling wool over our eyes yet again?
Absolutely. Di2 brifters are double the price for simple electronic switches. Ripoff.
I work in electronics: the cost to produce the electronic groupsets is is very likely less than the equivalent level mechanical groupset, but the cost of development is likely higher. I suspect that the component makers are making more profit on the electronic group sets, once the development costs are re-couped. I hope that the cost to consumer will come down due to these factors, certainly, it is a much better deal to purchase a complete bike with an electronic groupset than to upgrade an existing bike at retail: I suspect bike makers are getting excellent pricing on wholesale purchase fo electronic group sets as well. Unfortunately, for me, anyone who enjoys building up their own bike custom, is paying a super premium for parts, even more so than previously.
@@barrowsworm1226 That's what I was thinking about going exclusively electronic, bigger profit margins. True the development cost may be higher but Di2 has been around a long time so it's trickle down technology at this point. I don't think the development cost of going from 10 to 11 to 12 has got to be that much, imo.
I gave you thumbs up for your rightful curiosity. For a comparison as you propose, they'd both be expensive due to the need for *reliable* shifting.
However, and I'm an electronic tech been involved in amplifier and component design and service on two continents, KISS rules! (Keep It Simpel Stupid!)
I still can't accept a guitar or bass that needs a battery. It just ain't right! (Phantom powered, perhaps, but that's a whole other discussion). Why would I or many others want to complicate a situation that given good design completely in the mechanical sphere, is relatively cheap, dependable, relatively light, and tried, trusted and trued? (And with a *much* higher torque ability to ensure solid shifting)
What next? Electronic zippers, because they're faster? Think how fast you can whip it in an out then...And of course, the sales spiel: "It will radically transform your sex life". The canaries will ruffle their feathers to be first in line...
@@barrowsworm1226 Thanks for your helpful explanation. Is the higher development cost true even if they source the electronics from elsewhere? It just seems to me that servo motors are rather old and cheap tech (I'm thinking RC airplanes), and sourcing and adapting them to control a derailleur seems easier than designing a mechanically indexed shifting system that fits within a shifter and works reliably - for production at scale, no less. At any rate, it seems that we are far enough out from the initial development that cost of production should start to bring prices down, but instead they continue to charge a huge premium.
With all the information available to consumers now from forums, UA-cam reviews and comparison tools, I just can't digest biased reviews. Thanks to you Mr.Hambini, PT and others for sharing truth and common sense
I've found GCN's content a little lacking of late and viewing less if their content.
Basically agree with your analysis. Especially regarding Chinese OEM's going more mainstream.
On GCN, that's tricky just looking at youtube. ALL of youtube is in a decline from saturation of content and over saturation of advertising. In your video here alone I got over 10 minutes of ads, many of them unskippable, breaking up the content and making it unwatchable. You are just lucky I was eating luck and kept it playing. Add in that many big creator videos are now 30% sponsored ad content on their own, and people are just tuning out. It is not so much a GCN problem as a youtube / social media problem. We' bored of the platform, not necessarily the content.
I no longer have any value for a dealer network - experience has taught me that a good relationship with your LBS is far more useful, expert and economic. I also agree that the explosion of good quality, fairly priced components from CN will dent the big boys, however, the latter are far too wily to stand by and let it happen on any scale (remember when Ticketmaster bought up their No1 competitor LiveNation?) so I'm not expecting huge price drops from them but mergers and sole representation agreements instead.
most LBS are shams too. rare to find a good one and if u do, its becaue they fleece the rest of em, just not you.
I’ve got loads of NOS old stock in my basement. Mostly 7700/01 and 6500/01 9 speed, and, much prefer it to anything else I’ve tried. That said, I ride single speed a lot these days, and, can’t afford the bike/components on my limited budget. Otherwise, my LBS is superb, and will gladly do work for me when needed.....
Thanks to people like you we can make better informed decisions my winspace is Brilliant and I didn't have to bend over to pay for it.
Microshift is Taiwanese (not Chinese though they do have factories in both places) and their parts are in use in more places than you'd think already. Specialized has been putting them on their entry level MTBs for a few years now starting with the Advent 1x9 speed clutched derailleur; and now even 2x8 derailleurs on the base models (replacing the Shimano entry level stuff that was on those bikes before).
Back in the days of the original bicycle boom in the 1890's the bicycle industry as a whole was very effective in lobbying for better roads because they realized it would directly contribute to their bottom line by expanding the number of butts on bicycles. The current industry does not seem to understand this fact. They have given up on the general bicycle market by primarily concentrating their marketing and political dollars on the high end recreational bike market. So they see no reason to make any effort to help the general public's ability to have safe bike paths that would allow them to make informed choices about driving or riding to a local destination. They are contributing to the problem of climate change and pollution because they are not focusing any effort or dollars on the ability of the bicycle to be transportation instead of just a recreation tool.
Interesting point. They currently spend a ton on race teams, which I’d argue is the reason bikes are so expensive, but maybe a better investment is to lobby for cycling infrastructure (on and off-road) for regular people.
@@GHinWI This is correct. The expansion of the bicycle market would be huge if there was more bike infrastructure because more people would feel safe to ride. The "Not Just Bikes" channel talks about this a lot and there are various other youtube channels dedicated to urban reform that speaks to these issues.
I think the economic situation is going to make people look for "value for money" products. The usual established brands are going to lose their market share if they think they can continue selling overpriced products.
Hello hambini, i bought one of your bottom bracket and it’s very good so far. Part of why I bought it is because you engineer and make it in Europe. This is why I’m against Chinese brands getting bigger. We need to get our factories and know how back in Europe. It’s a disaster to keep fueling that globalized market
Yeah, but how much did it cost? And it is only one part. Who in the actual fuck can afford to fork out £300 for a bottom bracket plus then take the hassle to find a bike mechanic who will be willing to install the thing? If Hambini was to make complete bicycles entirely in Europe, the pricing would start at £20k per unit. Plus 20% VAT for UK customers :D.
Manufacturing anything in Europe is a no-no nowadays due to too high labour costs and quite recently cutting off of cheap gas from Russia which is only further deindustrialising Europe. I is already happening on a mass scale in Germany now. And once the skill and know how is lost it won't ever be recreated. If anything more industries will be moving their manufacturing plant out of Europe to Asia or USA for search of cheaper energy. Europe is literally now committing an economical suicide. Remember, the entire post-IIWW economical success of Germany, was in a large part owed to the availability of cheap energy which in turn allowed their produce to remain competitively priced. That's now gone.
Thanks Hambini, interesting take as usual. GCN becomes more irritating by the day and is basicly just a shopping channel these days. I live in The Netherlands and can watch lots of racing on regular TV channels so the idea of a paid subscription is a non-starter. I hope that the Chinese manufacturers continue to press the established brands who have basicly taken us all to the cleaners, especially in the last few years. I have used Campa and Shimano on road bikes and Sram on a mountainbike in the past . My current bike has Ultegra manual with hydraulic disc brakes on a canyon . I do not want electronic shifting, nor can I afford it. My next group set may very well be Chinese. My regards to the hairdresser!
The decline of GCN, especially the GCN tech.
The level of technical expertise is no longer the same when jon canning still on the screen. It just getting sadder seeing the content. Like most cyclist already got bored seeing video aero vs lightweight.
It just boring. I only cycling as compensation for my enormous eating habit. And also happened to like the drop bar bike.
In my view, GCN's just old-style Top Gear for Saturday cyclists now.
I would say the biggest problem is that they are losing both watching parties. The "fun" part is not really fun because its extremely repetitive and you just see its extremely low effort.
And if you watch gcn tech for "technical" info you just get advertisment on products or absolutely atrocious low effort tests, that just again try to sell something.
The saddest part for me is seeing how low of an effort they put into theyre videos, the best example for me was the rim brake vs disc brake and new ultegra vs dura ace. Where with the brakes they didnt even bother to use same tyres on the bikes. And with the groupsets all the tests basically showed no difference, but in theyre conclusion they said Dura ace is better.
Pretty sure the hosts write the articles and no one proof reads it before going live
@@Robutube1 I wouldnt say old style Top gear would be bad, look at the other branch of theyre brand the GTN, they are doing the top gear style content, but its actually fun and interesting. The GCN just have really boring videos without new or interesting ideas.
Plus i dont know if its only me but the GCN presenters are just really not sympatic to me.
Their responses to tech questions they get asked are absolutely simplistic and are often totally wrong
Rim Brakes will outlive GCN! They used to have a Death Countdown Clock for rim brake's demise. It must've run-out of batteries!
The way I see the current media landscape: GCN and the like for short videos (when sitting on the toilet, waiting for the bus etc), glossy paper mags like Rouleur and Cranked for proper late night reading with a cup of tea and yt channels like this, Mapdec, Peak Torque for in depth tech stuff and honest reviews.
This is what happens when the major bike brands treat there customers for fools. I’m looking forward to the day when a DI2 equivalent groupset ( rim/ disk optional) comes out for less than a £800 🙏.. bring it on, #make cycling affordable again 👍 happy new year hambini 🇫🇷 👊
Van RYSEL rcr looks amazing and great prices
When you’re serious you really make a compelling argument 😅 I have to agree on all your points…
CN brands will only have an impact if they can up their quality control. It's still hit and miss with what you get.
If Matt comes back GCN has a chance
Amen!
@@savagepro9060 His content on (cafe ride) on sigma sports channel is some of the best.
@@MatthewBeedham I have subscribed, I know
And if Matt brings Jon and Emma with him I will spend as much time viewing GCN as back in these days too ...
Lloyd/Stephens/Richardson were the perfect combo
We can see it as well especially for the CN groupsets. I used a Sensah Empire 11s because it's cheaper to build and it shifts well for my recreational endeavors
Great video, the truth will hurt for some people. You earned my subscription. Hope you hit 100k soon. I fell in love with bikes as a child but unfortunately took me until my late 40s to afford something even close to my dream bike. To anyone listening from the big companies, make decent bikes more accessible please..
I’ve got two Merlin titanium road frames, that I bought many moons ago,. One is still basically brand new and still boxed, and I’ve basically been riding my single speed for the past couple of years. I’ve still got a couple of unused 6500 and a 5501 9 speed group sat as well. Whilst, I’m glad I got them when I did as the prices of cycling has gone thru the roof over the past five years or so. I bought a Gunnar street dog single-speed about eight years ago and they wanted $650 for a respray when a new frame is just about double that, and $500 to do the GFNY ( 100 miles) which we used to do as a training run all those years ago when racing. WTF is cycling coming to, I’m 59; health is becoming problematic; although, I still love spinning past carbon super frames on my single speed then watch as they change up and fly past when they see what has just passed them....
Great review, fully agree with everything said. The cycling gravey train is about to slip off the rails, Cycling should be affordable and fun and not full of corp. driven consumerism.
Spot on and insightful - I liked your graphs. Cyclists, being a captive market, have been exploited since the mid 2000's with ever ballooning costs. How the major players respond to the emergence of the Chinese companies is going to be interesting. I have always used Ultegra exclusively, but would now consider Sensah.
I was playing with trends, and Campagnolo was surprisingly strong. Shimano was the overall massive leader (triple everyone else) with Sensah with consistently high interest and SRAM just below them.
edit; this was in google shopping as an indicator of what people were looking to buy.
Excellent video Hambo. The cycling industry is pricing itself out of the market. It's now becoming obscenely expensive. I predict total collapse is inevitable!
very hard agree. l've gone to chinese wheels and frame and am extremly impressed what you get for your money. with the groupsets l think there is some quality to be gained. upgraded from 7900 to the 11 speed shimano groupsets (12 speed is just stupid expensive). so in that 700-1000 bucks, perfomance, durability region with both brake types, clutch mech. groupsets is a market the 105 occupied and they killed it with the new 105. so that is a huge chance for chinese brand l think
The Chinese brands are simply filling the void in the market for half decent bikes at a reasonable price. Who could have predicted that not everybody wants to spend 5 grand on a 9kg disc brake bike?
I've no sympathy for the cycling press either they've been complicit in pushing forward these ridiculous bikes. It's going to be fnny when a mainstream manufacturer releases a £2000 carbon rim brake bike that people will actually buy and acts as if they've just discovered fire for the first time.
Yep, the western brands are unwittingly pulling up the drawbridge of participation, it will hurt them eventually.
@@nellyx1x493 It's as if the big manufacturers have done absolutely no market research whatsoever and thought "yep people bought a load of bikes in 2020 and will pay whatever price we put on a product". Every man and his dog could see this coming.
I have adopted the Chinese Sensah groupset since 3 years ago when they are still in the infancy year for their Empire Pro 12 speed groupset. I am dead certain that they are the way that the general market will go as conglomerate brands like Campagnolo and Shimano are shifting to become elite brands with prices that are way too expensive for the enthusiasts.
The disconnect by the big brands cannot be more obvious with Shimano dropping their mechanical groupset entirely for 105 and above. It simply opens the door for the Chinese brands to enlarge their market share and become themselves a mainstream brand in no time.
If a chinese company does make a di2 for half the cost of the sram rival etap, it will be a wrap. There is a whole market that the bigger companies are ignoring.
And if it turns out to be only 80% as good, why would others bother spending the extra cash anyway?
Totally agree
Having dealt with Winspace, Farsports, and Magene regularly, I can say (anecdotally) they are making great strides to provide good customer service. This is something other Far East brands will need to fix in order to not get left behind in the Western world.
In my experience, Far East customer service is way way way more effective than western brands. You write to farsports, you get an answer in one day. If you have a well documented issue, they provide you a solution or they send back you the money you need to fix it.
“Anecdotal”… you are literally featured in win space ads. And I think you also have had something to do brand ambassador wise with FS too unless Im mistaken. You’re not some nobody (at least in the sense that you’re not some random who bought from WS and FS). The fact I can connect your name with Chinese brands shows your partnership did its job.
@@fartlord5000 I’ve been a customer of Winspace well before partnering with them. Meaning I’ve spent my own money before they even knew who I was. Always great customer service even back them 👍🏾
Some important predictions Hambini missed
1) crossing the 100K subscriber mark (great job on the channel in advance)
2) switching to a new hairdresser
3) giving PT’s 3D Crossplot an engineering roast 😊
I switched over to mountain biking and have been pleasantly surprised about how no one company really dominates components. The tech is much cooler too, and maybe its my imagination, but the prices do not seem as steep as the road, yet you're getting more with the money.
I think GCN realised that the YT ad model is not sustainable in the long term. That is probably why they started a subscription service a couple of years back, which is streaming major and smaller road bike races, cyclo cross, track racing and MTB races. I am a subscriber and watch most cycling races on their reasonably decent app. The biggest selling point for me is, that most races are viewable on demand, even months after the event itself.
Yes, and without ads! I watch GCN only for race coverages, 40€ per year is really a good price for such a good coverage!
@@robertcowling4313 I pay for the ad free, on demand bike races. If you are not into bike racing, that is not for you.
@@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele Tru, ad free. I took it for granted. :)
They were sold to the discovery channel they then had the capital for the channel and all the new production stuff. The channel is great if you follow racing. My god cx racing is unbelievable right now. Pitcock, wout, and mvdp is always a great show.
Their MTB race coverage has been crap. They snagged EWS from PB and their coverage of EWS races has been awful. With them having also snagged UCI world cup from Red Bull I am not optimistic of MTB race coverage going forward. With the EWS to EDR switch I don't expect enduro coverage to improve as EWS went from its own headline series with its own schedule to the warm up act for UCI DH.
As long as consumers can be fooled into "cheaper gets you the same product" the CN brands can keep growing. Having been in the retail, I know support for these products has been appalling and its been common to find they don't work even new. Bike mfs are not used to parts being broken out of the box which doesn't help as there seems to be no QC on the assembly line.
SRAM has made a fool of themselves with the shitty NX and SX Eagles though, and every manufacturer probably loosened their qc when they had so many parts in back order, so at least consumers will already be familiar with the quality you can expect from a china brand.
Yeah, consumers are NEVER feed the line that more expensive is higher quality BS marketi9ng departments spin every day. Reality is, it's a case by case basis. I have some cheap chinese bike shorts, and name brand high end bike shorts. The cheap chinese brand mountain bike shorts (a particular chinese brand, can't say about the rest of them) are superior to the 3 different name brand mountain bike shorts IMHO. Road bike shorts, the name brand high end Shimano are superior for me, while more expensive name brand shorts have not been as good for me.
I'm sorry but seen way to many shimano dura ace pass through my workshop with broken plastic internals the last 8 years . The fact that you can't service shimano shifters with replacement parts sucks ass for a £1700 groupset .
I disagree with your analysis on why GCN's numbers have stagnated. The more likely explanation is that the cause is the end of the covid boom.
I have the sensah empire pro, paid about 80quid for it. I was building my own bike as a new cyclist and the prices of groupsets from the major 3 left me baffled, glad I went with sensah
GCN are going from strength to strength. With GCN+ they now show all the grand tours, the classics and the monuments etc for a small annual fee, with expert commentary from Carlton Kirby, Brian Smith, Matt Stephens and Sean Kelly. It’s a fantastic product that GCN offer.
Im delighted to see new companies going mainstream because the old guard are robbing customers blind and the stupid public are putting up with it so much over priced crap on the market all ready so its time big brands get a damn good kicking .Happy new year mate love your honest videos.
The only one of the "old guard " that stayed affordable is campagnolo , the centaur groupset being only £550 for the whole lot , is great value and comes with rim brakes .
@@edmundscycles1 "Only"...???
@@stephensaines7100 for an 11speed groupset that includes chains , brake callipers , cassette , shifters , bb , crankset derailleur, cables and cable guides . That's a very good price for RRP . Especially as its lighter than 105 and can be repaired rather than thrown out if the shifter breaks . Compared essentially you could build a carbon framed bike with alloy wheels and a quality groupset for around a £1k . (Alloy bars and seat post) or upgrade an old bike from a 9 or 10speed (11sp campag cassette fits on any 9 speed freehub body as campag make a Shimano HG compatible cassette with a customisable block) . Compare that to shimano where 105 (cheapest 11 speed shimano ) is now over £1200 rrp and disc brake only and you can't fix the internal shifter parts nor customise the cassette .
@@stephensaines7100 people think campag is boutique prices (£1k upwards) its nor and has far more longevity in its use able life than either shimano and SRAM. With spares still being made for 10speed Super record shifters (that's almost 10 years ago now) in the Italian factory .
Fair enough but are these companies anything but mainstream in their homelands? Their aspirations are to be mainstream or universal. You might have the exact recipe for coke or KFC but can you undersell them or offer up an equivalent or better product enough to be profitable? If any if these new players get too successful the offers of a buyout will be tempting
You're bang on I reckon. More competition in the market can only be good for the consumer. Sadly everything's gone up anyway. Personally I've stopped using Shimano consumables a long time ago.
Expect a UK dealer for EliteWheels to be up and running in 2023. Customer support will be the aim. Wheels have been tested and developed by several UCI Continental Teams (Some big budget ones at that). Sensah has been out in the races too. I raced in China in 2018 in some of the biggest races and saw the development of the equipment. RTS bikes on Xero wheels and Chaoyang Tubulars coming in at 6.8kg. Watch this space.... Offering discounts and support now if you can't wait....
I had Elite with novatec hubs absolute disaster. Elite are resellers not manufacturers but then again that's not uncommon. I think Winspace will be the most successful if it can get into the European race market. They really need to invest big money in a team
@@glennoc8585 Big changes at Elite with a complete re-design of their official line up of wheels from their direct website. Investments and changes with the help of teams and riders were made, and that's a good sign of a company willing to innovate.
I think you're spot on with those predictions. The number of bikes with bottom brackets overall might see a decrease with the 'miniaturization' and further refinement of integrated crank-based drive systems, for E-bikes. Got to say though, that despite the problems the bike industry has, I honestly believe the pharmacology industry is far more corrupt. It 'was' just better at hiding it, from those not in the know!
I'm hoping a Chinese brand will release a decent bike with points for mudguard/pannier attachments.
For me that'd be the only bike I want to own, for commuting with laptops in pannier bags which are really removable for the weekend rides.
Totally correct review. And those CN brands will cut into things like Tiagra, 105, Rival levels. They just need to have good hydro shifters, then also MTB counterparts, so that you can mix and match (i.e. covering gravel/CX/road) and they will have their slice of cake in this market.
When these guys are going to get into mechanical market, which literally left by the "big" brands, they will take electronic groupset market too.
You're looking at views and new subscribers for a cycling platform and saying "in the winter there's less users!" ...
I still enjoy GCN but I can only watch so many videos on "How to cycle in the wet", etc.
I had a fantastic response to a question submitted to microshift, 2-hour reply from their US tech rep. I have been riding their 9-speed advent on my 90’s mtb as a 1x for about a year now. No complaints, the clutch keeps chain drops down ( I’m not using a narrow wide, just reusing the middle chainring) this line requires the proprietary shifter, but for around $60 I was able to modernize/simplify my bike.
MicroSHIFT is simply superior to Sensah and Ltwoo in the gravel and mtb line. Its cheap, has wide gear range, and works without issue with a performance around Deore or SLX level.
@@cjohnson3836 Not sure how you can say that when Microshift maxes out at 10 speeds whereas Sensah has both 11 and 12 speed options for gravel and mountain biking (including lower weight carbon versions for gravel). And in my personal experience with Sensah SRX Pro 11 speed, it has all the benefits you claim for Microshift.
@@LukeRichardson1981 Because anywhere not as flat as a pancake doesn't need 12spd on a mountain bike. 10sp wide cassette is optimal when you're already shifting multiple clicks a time. Further, MicroSHIFT is built to better tolerances than Sensah. No way in hell would I trust that shit out in the sticks. Carbon is stupid on gravel, esp where 70% of the country with most gravel riding has clay that will rip your derailleur apart. And, Sensah can't even get a clutch right. That shit is garbage.
@@cjohnson3836 So I guess Microshift is also superior to Shimano and SRAM, since they're onto 11 and 12 speeds with their top end groupsets for both gravel and mountain? Where's your proof that Microshift has 'better tolerances' than Sensah? Because in my experience putting over 8000km on SRX Pro 11 speed this year, it shifts quickly and precisely, and has been absolutely flawless in every way. I guess if you absolutely need a clutch, OK, it won't be for you, but it does have the ability to increase the tension on the derailleur spring to give an effect similar to a clutch. And the carbon version is only an option - if you want durability, they have an alloy version as well.
@@LukeRichardson1981 [Where's your proof that Microshift has 'better tolerances' than Sensah?] You can read reviews as well as I can. What's your brain damage? And why are you so triggered that I believe Sensah to be inferior? Pull your panties out your crack and go ride if this is so upsetting to you.
[I guess if you absolutely need a clutch] Literally the most important thing in an offroad derailleur. If this is news to you, then you really aren't in a position to be judging quality.
[but it does have the ability to increase the tension on the derailleur spring to give an effect similar to a clutch]
And practically anyone that's used it in an environment its supposed to be built for knows its shit.
Literally, the only selling point for Sensah on an offroad bike is that it can be upgraded to Sram.
One of my favorite videos on UA-cam definitely. Jam packed full goodie information! I must of watch it least five times.
The recent GCN coverage of the zwift academy competition was a debacle that left a really bitter taste and was the final nail in the coffin of GCN for me.
I have been using Chinese components for the last 4 years and I am very satisfied and they are very good value for money.
Great video 😊👍
Another sector that is going to get a much needed shakeup is tools - put "bicycle" in front of the description and the price leaps into the Snapon league
Gcn was never the same once the original gang broke up and they went full sponsor shill
Hear, Hear, the right honourable Member with a proclivity towards Hairdressers is bang on.
Totally agree! And I'm glad it's slowly going in that direction too. Enough BS from cycling media and enough of these ridiculous prices. Also congrats on 99k! You might even hit 100k by the end of the year. Come on Hambini, crank out some more videos for us, 100k is just around the corner.
So my thoughts as a ex mechanic and salesman from the bike industry, Shimano and SRAM are talking so much about Electric this 1x that etc that even the online guys like Road CC GCN etc keep stating things like “SRAM wants to kill off the front mech” “Shimano is going to stop building 105 mechanical” “Rim brakes at a mid to high tier level are dead “ actually it’s them that have given L TWOO and Sensah the perfect opportunity to hit the market with Well priced targeted products to fill that gap! And I think they will aggressively try to dominate that market!! Even if say you break a 11 speed lever those companies offer you cheap good products that work with your 105 or even chorus mechs etc. they are being clever in being seen to support the current generation with spares while also beating Shimano to the mechanical 12 speed middle ground groupset in either Rim or now Hydraulic brake options!!
Let’s be honest the new L TWOO 12 speed hydro once they get on top of stock and a few teething problems is the new go to Mid Range groupset beating Shimanos 105 at every point! If I was building a new bike now ide be looking at wind space or Waltly with the 12 speed Ltwoo knowing that I’ve just built up a bike that can rival if not better any major brands 105 to ultegra spec bike at a third of the cost!
If they make a STI/Ergo lever or rear mech that is Campag compatbile that will be a world first.
This is a market ever since indexed gears (early 90s onwards), but no one has ever dared try to fill that.
The problem with the Chinese brands (other than Microshift who have a U.K. disti) is that it’s a complete crapshoot on how long your stuff is going to take to get here, whether it arrives at all, whether it gets pulled by customs and you get a shit-ton of import duty, VAT and courier handling fees on it. And of course if the new UKCA marking (the U.K. is scrapping the CE scheme in 2024) is a whole new unknown. In reality in order to go mainstream they will need a local disti, which will obviously increase the price.
I've had a similar experience buying a bike from Ribble in the UK
Totally agree with the predictions re the rise of brands from China. Having used a Sensah Empire groupset for the past 6 months, I'm a total convert. Durability and reliability stands up, and the price is a no brainer.
Keep an eye out for III-Pro hydro Brakes, IGPSport Computers and Senicx Cranksets. These brands are a little bit unknown, but show amazing potential.
One thing I worry about with the Chinese manufacturers is whether spares and service parts will be readily available. While I'm sure they make fine product, I want to make sure that if something breaks I'm not stuck waiting weeks for shipping from China.
Just throw it away and get something else. Do not try to repair it.
As is the trend in the world, it’ll all be disposable
GCN needs a radical shift in content. All the vids are just versions of previous videos and the gcn show is sooo baaad. they need more global English content.
a little nuance in your assertions on winspace. If you look closely, you see that mostly Singapore, Hong Kong and Malaysia are interested in it. For now, these brands are still totally unknown in Europe. And it's a bit like Chinese car brands: everybody talks about them, but you cant' tell that Europeans or Americans will adopt them. And we are currently observing that the Chinese are ultimately far from being competitive once the product is sold in Europe or the US, with the same standards and taxes as the other major brands (in the car industry). So personally I will not go too far on these Chinese cycling brands outside of Asia
Some of the analyses needed to be shown for longer e.g GCN data as it starts too close to the beginning of the Covid pandemic, which I suspect drove up views creating an outlier period (people had more free time, little racing to watch, outdoor activity boom etc). As an engineer, I would expect a Shewhart chart with data from 2018 to see if the current situation is a trend or within expected fluctuations once you remove the Covid effect. Regression lines on run-time charts can often be iffy.
The thing with GCN is at this stage a lot of their videos pretty much come off as one long 10-20min advertisement/product promotion. I remember the pre-discovery buy out days when they had more presenters and a more diverse and varied content. Now its become just an advertising platform that is trying to make you buy stuff most of the time and 90% of the presenters that made the channel great in the past are long gone.
Sure miss Matt and Emma! You could physically see Emma's disdain as she went thru the ad part of the presentation. Emma was a class act!
@@FriendlyFarmMachineryToolCpBel and working with those buffoons.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Absolutely loved the video, it seems to be going that direction. Another piece of information though. Obviously inflation and just tough times right now are affecting everyone’s industry in terms of sales. I’m hearing it from all outdoor sports that did well during covid that now they hit a wall, all that free money that was given out during covid dried up, and those credit card intrest rates arnt as low.
My take on china bike brands:
There needs to be a competitive china bike brand company that makes:
There own frames
There own wheels
And there own groups.
You can go to there website and get there bikes built one stop shop right there for crazy affordable price. Imagine going to winspace and you can get a prebuilt t1500 with sensa group already ran on the bike and delivered to your house.
Then a customer could buy a t1500 decked out with hyper wheels and a 12 speed hydraulic disc brake group maybe wireless in the future right there.
Take out all the confusion and concern from buying from china and get everything you need from one place.
Pre built
Winspace has definitely dominated the cycling industry when it comes to China brands.
Their........couldn't help myself.
They would be smarter if they used the recent Specialized dealer model? Use a LBS to assemble and/or test the bikes and create a link between manufacturing and client . If it wasn’t too much of a financial slug to the consumer, it might be ok!
I'm looking at ICAn because at least they have some stock already on my continent ready to be shipped with import hassles already done. Nobody will like direct to consumer bikes until they can market and deliver product easily. And if they don't have boots on the ground they need to be ready to ship out warranty stuff instantly. No going silent on the other side of the world.
Decline in GCN? Presentation style was always Barney The Dinosaur, target audience's mental age and ability to think critically the same. It's always been a cesspit.
I can’t wait for people to stop cycling. I want to go back to the mid 80’s when only weirdo’s and druggies or both used road bikes.
I am waiting for a Chinese electronic groupset. Di2 too expansive.
How long will that take them to perfect it? The latest hydraulic set already has problems.
@@DanTuber not the latest. it was the first hydraulic groupset from chinese
Check out Berm Peak, he just reviewed a Chinese wireless derailleur for MTB applications and had good things to say about it for the price point.
I don't think you're very far off. I think the new asian brands are going to eat a big chunk out of ShitmaNo and Sram and I believe Campagnolo will bump along more or less unfettered as always If one of those alt-asian brands buys into a World Tour team, all hell will break loose, unless Shimano pulls some strings and blocks them. GCN can only grow so much and I think you're correct in that they've hit critical mass. While I mostly enjoy their content, a few of their presenters are terrible, particularly those on GCN+, and they lost all credibility a few years ago when reviewing products because they are basically commercials for their sponsors. I also think the recent Zwift Academy debacle really soured viewers on all the sponsors involved, myself included. I hope this bust, for lack of a better word means a corresponding price adjustment will follow. Prices have gone from expensive to nucking futz expensive, driving a LOT of people away from the sport.
+1 for the reference to the Zwift Academy debacle. That was a whole new level of corporate subservience to the sponsors requirements
I like the idea of the cheaper chineese groupsets, but I keep my bikes for a long time and my shimano components some 14 and 30 years old work perfectly. It is hard to ignore that service.
Had a Merlin Ti Bike back in 1988 that had pressfit BB! Failed over and over!! I do not see any significant difference in todays BB. No one learns from the past? Thank youMaster!!
Good vid. I’m going to do my own. Let’s catch up in 2023. 🎉. I think one major thing I think will unwrap pretty fast is big brands screwing dealers and going direct. I think the OEM corruption will keep brands like Sensah away for a while yet. Winspace has an open goal, will they get on target?
it's quite noticable that even in the UK which is much smaller market than the US, the bigger brands are buying the dealers up.
@@Hambini it is happening in the US and also here in Oz.
It’s basically what Apple did back innige day
@@waynosfotos Out of curiosity, what brands are doing in OZ haven't noticed any yet?
Are you up-to-date on Honda/Mercedes changes to dealership contracts? Car prices doubled...
Well my Intro into cycling, there was only 4 groups, Stronglite, Zeus, Simplex, and the Creme of Campagnolo. Along came Suntour who developed some of the most innovative products. A Superbe Pro Groupset of the late 80s was a thing of beauty. Still running it on some of my bikes. Biased I worked for theAustralian distributor. Then along came Shimano fiddling around low end and developing. The 90s saw them throw bucketloads of money at the market. Driving Suntour out of business eventually. Shimano now is the Market Leader, Sram are there as a alternative but are still small fry. Campagnolo have lost the plot altogether, Super Record, Record, Chorus are as good as they will get. Anything below those 3 tiers is Garbage and of poor quality. Not worthy of the Campagnolo name. So Shimano dominates, the Chinese are coming. But quality is still a way off. And dont get me started on disc brakes. Sheer marketing hype. Yes MTB bikes, Heavily laden touring bikes. Fine. As for us mug punters, we dont descend like Nibali. Was all a ploy to keep bike shops in business with something most people wont touch, me included. I will stick with Rim Brakes. Where do we go from here buggered if I know, but a bit of simplification would go a long way.
"Campagnolo - Anything below those 3 tiers is Garbage and of poor quality. Not worthy of the Campagnolo name." Two words, the first is HORSE, you can guess the other one. I operated a fleet of rental bikes with Mirage, Veloce and Potenza groupsets and rode the same myself. Not as nicely finished, heavier materials but easily worthy of the Campagnolo name...still using some of the stuff that is decades old now.
@Larry T. I'll second that. My 2007 9-speed Mirage front mech on my old ribble audax was and still bettrr than my ultegra front mech on my "expensive" bike particularly on the upshift under load. Looks like shit yes but best gear change i ve experienced. The issue with campy is that they seem to have a different design for every groupset
Where we go from now? Of course towards ABS systems, antitheft devices, lights integration and there we go, the bike is now almost a motorbike.. I digress, the cycling industry has lost the plot years now.
The penetration of Chinese brands is surely down to the current protected market for cycling products. Prices are so high they will attract direct to consumer brands and prices will fall. A £10,000 bike is just ridiculous. It surely cannot be justified, yet there seems no one is prepared to question the current apparent monopoly.
I want a 2*10 MTB or road groupset, reliable, NO electronic crap whatsoever and good weather, that's all and I will be happy !
GCN assisted Zwift Challengers to get a 'pro contract' that never manifests. It is not real!
I definitely think Chinese direct brands will grow. But maybe at a slower pace now because of 2 factors. 1 there was a shortage of availability from the Big 3 after covid, which they exploited, this is now ending. 2 the big bike names are not going to use their products on their builds. ( i would be surprised.) Do i make a point?
The pricing on mainstream brands is not going down soon unless cycling suddenly becomes unpopular. Online selling is not going go get less popular, and it is where CN brands get most of their business.
The bikes are ALREADY CHINESE...they just have EU/USA stickers on them.
@Tone Deaf Tony i get that. But the components that big brands use will still be branded as the big 3 (Shimano etc).
In a short run the big names will not use CN groupsets. In the longer run, they will or go under. The longer run is maybe 10 years. Rgr
For Chinese groupsets I think when they bring an electronic version that you can upgrade Rim Brake bikes without disc brakes they'll clean up. Just like early Di2.
It kinda seems like GCN is running out of video ideas. I've seen videos already done by Matt, Si and Dan more than half decade ago being reshot by the new guys like Hank and Ollie. I love their contents and I believe a lot of it is directed towards beginners (i mean it's pretty obvious from the title of the videos like "5 Tips For Wet Weather Cycling") and they have helped me a lot as a total beginner 5 yrs ago. It saddens me to see what's happening with their channel because i believe i'm not the only beginner helped by GCN.
HAMBINI the DISRUPTOR 🎯 🏆 sounds more like a wrestling name but you’ll get the drift! You are having a big impact on the cycling industry and I think it’s amazing. On the groupset front, I think there will always be those who will never steer away from shimano etc. For these Chinese brands to make it to the mainstream, they need to be seen to be complying with EU and or British standards as well as having known high quality warranty/returns. The big litmus test for some will be seeing the gear on race bikes for a number of years. I suspect validation for quality will come from social media (people like yourself) than it will from ‘media outlets’ as they have all but lost their credibility
The big brands don't comply with "standards". It is effing sad that it takes a 5 year old to wake up the "real cyclists" to what some have been saying for a decade. Now that we have the attention of the market. We must not buy from the folks who gouged us. Let their yachts rust.
@@anthonylarson7919 they don’t comply with EU standards? That’s a pretty bold statement of fact, are you making that claim with any degree of certainty?
@@JayGee6996 Specialized head tubes and forks....Cervello stems...Trek handlebars...BMC steer tubes cracks...TimeMachine front tire hit frame.. and that is just from rubbing my two renegade brain cells together. my anecdotal..2 Canyon Ult and ENDU..ghost shifting whilst hard climb, no help from Canyon...sold em... Dogma chain stay snapped, no help from Pina...tried to recycle it, but it is now landfill somewhere. I might be salty but, if one thinks any bike company complies to their own qc/qa standards let alone gov't standards, they might be mistaken.
@@anthonylarson7919 mechanical failures don’t equate to a failure to meet EU standards. If you look at EU standards for bikes they’re quite specific. Meeting the standards does not mean a bike is failure proof; look at automobiles for a comparison - they can meet much more wide ranging standards and and fail before they’ve even left the dealership
Chinese brands are penetrating all markets. Electric cars are a great example. Just look how MG (SAIC) has gone from a complete joke to being a more than viable option in a relatively short period.
It's almost as if farming out our industrial sector has back fired spectacularly.
I quite like that funky cat thing too!
@@Hambini I know what you mean. It's a pastiche of many euro small cars but really well executed.
China will fuck us all.
BMW is shutting down EV productions for their Minis in Oxford and move it to China
BYD has just ordered 8 car carrier ships with a capacity of 7700 cars each.
The carrying capacity of the bicycle customers is not going to support the exponential growth curve of bicycle pricing. There are only so many Dentist with large disposable income. Specialized won't care as they are a boutique brand and that's their customer profile. I recall the '80s stunt they did with tri-city sports. I don't think the cycling world learned the lesson of burning dealers. Last bike I bought was used, three years old at half the price and just a few percentage points off the current tech/performance improvement. I think you're right in the China MFGs cutting out the middle. I see shops just going more to repair than selling, as people can't even figure out how to fix a flat for themselves. The cycling world like to con't to operate like the auto/dealership, but will that truly end in cycling? Tesla shows it can be done, but service is an issue with Tesla because of its propietry tech. E-Bikes maybe how mfg locks in service connections with customers to the dealers. You are the Thunderf00t of the engineering part of the cycling world, keep it up. Will you also be the Louis Rossmann of "right to repair" in the e-bike world? Yup, that was a bit of a rambling rank.
Given the demise of press-fit BB’s, it’ll be interesting to see what topics Hambini’s channel moves toward. This kind of “industry speculation” type content is probably his future, I’d guess-and it’s pretty good.
I think Chinese groupsets will show up as OEM on a lot of smaller brands. There's already a rise of this on random little brands, but will probably be seen on slightly larger companies like Jamis, GT, etc
MicroSHIFT has already taken over that space and, being based in Taiwan, doesn't have the problems CN companies face (President Poo Bear). And, frankly, Advent X is a superior product for gravel and mountain bikes than anything Sensah or LTwoo have produced. Regardless, geopolitics is going to pull the rug out from under the CN brands.
The West needs to ween itself off Chinese manufactured products. From manufacturing to retail sales.
The West needs to ween itself off Western goods manufacture in China. The Chinese can manufacture their own products. I don't mind!
Not going to happen whilst price differentials remain so large.
Shimano's big mistake was to introduced di2 105 without a cheaper rim brake version.
Because now the cheapest way to get di2 technology is to buy Ultegra 8050. It's a bit of a nonsense
Dealing with a loan shark: Pay them back or my knees get bent the wrong way
Dealing with Cervelo: the bike is correct or the BB is fucked or the forks are fucked and randomly fail while going down a mountain or the down tube is one large void or they won’t do a warranty claim because they’ve changed the tolerances.
Seems like one is more open and honest than the other
The issues that I have with GCN involve race coverage and content. GCN Race Pass has yet to provide the coverage I expected here in the States. Regarding content, the channel has resorted to ridiculous videos that waste time. (They have a fixation on featuring rides that compare newbies/non-cyclists with pros)
Have you tried a VPN to access those out-of-market races? Works great for me.
@@michaelchritton5027 With GCN+, or other services? Co-worker with GCN+ couldn't get access to European content even with a VPN. GCN+ knew he created a U.S.A. account and stuck his network locality to what they had in his login profile.