Yeah that was pretty wild! You have to think that Ben knew. If he didn't, then he's not the expert we think he is. If he did, then shame on him for not saying something. I know it would have been awkward, but he had a duty to say something about it. Either scenario is not good for us, the consumer. - Jason
As someone whose life long career has been in television journalism, I feel it would be nearly impossible to remain an independent journalism outlet if your parent company is a commercial retail operation that sells the very product you report on. You are going to step on someone’s toes. I also do not think they can go back to what they were. The world has changed and more importantly, the watch world has changed. That said, I am still rooting for Ben and Hodinkee because their impact on the watch community cannot be overstated. Great discussion.
That is the fear in the watch community. I think it's nearly impossible as well, which is why I'll be consuming their content for entertainment and not hard journalism. Is there any way for them to stay separate you think? What if WoS only wants the data and the customer list? If that's the case, and they allow Hodinkee to stay independent under Ben's guidance, then maybe there's a chance? 🤷♂️ - Jason
@@TheWatchBros I cannot see a company allowing one of their mega platform business units to openly criticize their bread and butter product. It's a really good point about the data\customer list. What other value could they wring out of a failed editorial platform? I can see leveraging Ben as an ambassador for high end clients, industry and boutique events, etc. I'd go to one to meet him and talk watches with for sure. The last three announcements from Hodinkee have been bad, therefore it seems to me the next one will be as well and that announcement may be in six months to a year from now that Hodinkee has been written off of WOS' books. I hope not.
If they continue to falter, I give it a year. I can definitely see WoS using Ben in that way. I would also attend that kind of event. It would be fun to sit and talk watches with him. I feel like he has so much interesting knowledge in that head of his - Jason
LVMH was only one of a number of investors, when they came in Ben took a payday and lost his spot as majority shareholder but he would still have been a significant minority shareholder. The only way for him to cash out the remainder of the burning ship was to sell the whole thing, no more rounds of funding, and he probably had to come back as a condition of the sale. That means he is now an employee of WOS and likely has an earn out, ~2-3 years. He didn't make any decisions, this is the only way this could have played out for everyone to recoup some $.
Thank you for your balanced and well considered take on this. Agree with you both, think it’s a good move by Watches of Switzerland, how it will affect us the enthusiasts though, time will tell.
It was def smart on their part. I just hope that somehow… somehow, Hodinkee can be left alone and Ben is actually allowed to take them in a direction that is more conducive for watch enthusiasts - Jason
@@TheWatchBros they’d do that if they’re smart enough. The group seems to have quite a number of smart folks so hopefully they do the right thing for both the audience and themselves. Imagine if the respect they would earn from us enthusiasts if they let the Dink say anything they want.
Interesting point from the new collector - “I will continue to watch their content” vs read hodinkee’s written content - which I think is the brands disconnect.
Yeah, I think Felix brought an interesting perspective too. So do you think the disconnect is they don’t combine those two lines together very well, or is it that new collectors are only interested in their video content? - Jason
WoS bought a well-known., distressed asset at I am assuming was a very low price with the hopes of driving more traffic to its stores and website. Oh yes, WoS also has Hodinkee's customer list.
I think this is a really good point that I wish I would of thought about when we were filming. I agree with this assessment tho. With that said, does that mean there's a glimmer of hope that Hodinkee could be left alone by WoS? If the articles drive customers to them and they just need the data from Hodinkee, it's possible WoS would allow Ben to have free reins. Wishful thinking, I know, but I'm still hopeful - Jason
A lot of people concerned with the Hodinkee "objectivity" take... While watching MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, ABC. That's the issue. Nobody knows or cares who is objective. The reality is, the market has changed, it grew, and there's a lot options and now the market is contracting back and we have to all get back under the same tent. That's business. Always has been always will be.
That’s very true. For me, I haven’t watched main stream media in years. Registered Independent 😉 But you make a good point. Most media is bought and paid for today - Jason
As if Hodinkee was a paragon of objective journalism before the WoS acquisition. The media side of this industry is full of leeches writing puff pieces to get special treatment from watch manufacturers and retailers. I think Ben Clymer was way over his head when Hodinkee became more than just a hobbyist sideline, selling the publication to a more business savvy company like WoS will hopefully turn a profit and secure its existence long term.
To distill that down and a saying that my grandparents used to say... they got too big for their breeches! I also hope this lifeline will keep them alive and they can right the ship - Jason
I like Hodinkee, it’s not a perfect company and that’s ok Another site I would recommend if you like full detail watch reviews is Fratello. They operate in Europe
I've run across the Fratello site a few times... nothing bad to say about them because I haven't spent enough time reading through their articles. I'll have to check them out and spend some time looking around - Jason
Not trustworthy or not relevant? I can get on board with not trustworthy, but I'm not sure they're not relevant. They can get an interview with any watch executive at any watch house, any talking watches video will get massive attention on YT, and people in the community are always mentioning them. I think they have a chance to remain relevant, but only if they get this right. - Jason
They have been, but I wonder if that's not because of the spot that he's in with them. This last statement is very much, things went sideways while I was gone but now I'm back to right the ship, in my eyes. So it makes sense it would be a me, me me statement. But I can see how that is rubbing our community wrong. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt... for now anyways - Jason
@@TheWatchBros It ended for me with the sycophantic John Meyer interactions. Were we to be amazed that a multi-millionaire musician could get a Daytona before the rest of us Joes who have to save up for one or make some sales from our existing collection?
Lots of news from Hodinkee to unpack! Are you excited for what's to come? Or are you concerned with a possible downfall? Let us know!
The moment Adam Levine went on Talking watches and Ben didn't call out his fake watch. Hodinkee lost all credibility
Yeah that was pretty wild! You have to think that Ben knew. If he didn't, then he's not the expert we think he is. If he did, then shame on him for not saying something. I know it would have been awkward, but he had a duty to say something about it. Either scenario is not good for us, the consumer. - Jason
As someone whose life long career has been in television journalism, I feel it would be nearly impossible to remain an independent journalism outlet if your parent company is a commercial retail operation that sells the very product you report on. You are going to step on someone’s toes. I also do not think they can go back to what they were. The world has changed and more importantly, the watch world has changed. That said, I am still rooting for Ben and Hodinkee because their impact on the watch community cannot be overstated. Great discussion.
That is the fear in the watch community. I think it's nearly impossible as well, which is why I'll be consuming their content for entertainment and not hard journalism.
Is there any way for them to stay separate you think? What if WoS only wants the data and the customer list? If that's the case, and they allow Hodinkee to stay independent under Ben's guidance, then maybe there's a chance? 🤷♂️ - Jason
@@TheWatchBros I cannot see a company allowing one of their mega platform business units to openly criticize their bread and butter product. It's a really good point about the data\customer list. What other value could they wring out of a failed editorial platform? I can see leveraging Ben as an ambassador for high end clients, industry and boutique events, etc. I'd go to one to meet him and talk watches with for sure. The last three announcements from Hodinkee have been bad, therefore it seems to me the next one will be as well and that announcement may be in six months to a year from now that Hodinkee has been written off of WOS' books. I hope not.
If they continue to falter, I give it a year.
I can definitely see WoS using Ben in that way. I would also attend that kind of event. It would be fun to sit and talk watches with him. I feel like he has so much interesting knowledge in that head of his - Jason
LVMH was only one of a number of investors, when they came in Ben took a payday and lost his spot as majority shareholder but he would still have been a significant minority shareholder. The only way for him to cash out the remainder of the burning ship was to sell the whole thing, no more rounds of funding, and he probably had to come back as a condition of the sale. That means he is now an employee of WOS and likely has an earn out, ~2-3 years. He didn't make any decisions, this is the only way this could have played out for everyone to recoup some $.
I believe you're spot on and good analysis - Jason
Thank you for your balanced and well considered take on this. Agree with you both, think it’s a good move by Watches of Switzerland, how it will affect us the enthusiasts though, time will tell.
It was def smart on their part. I just hope that somehow… somehow, Hodinkee can be left alone and Ben is actually allowed to take them in a direction that is more conducive for watch enthusiasts - Jason
@@TheWatchBros they’d do that if they’re smart enough. The group seems to have quite a number of smart folks so hopefully they do the right thing for both the audience and themselves. Imagine if the respect they would earn from us enthusiasts if they let the Dink say anything they want.
This is a positive move for Hodinkee!
I think it could be. But give us your breakdown on why you believe this is a good move - Jason
Love that green casio. I picked it up about a month ago as well and have really enjoyed it.
Felix said thanks for props! It's a dope Gshock... especially for the money! - Jason
Interesting point from the new collector - “I will continue to watch their content” vs read hodinkee’s written content - which I think is the brands disconnect.
Yeah, I think Felix brought an interesting perspective too.
So do you think the disconnect is they don’t combine those two lines together very well, or is it that new collectors are only interested in their video content? - Jason
WoS bought a well-known., distressed asset at I am assuming was a very low price with the hopes of driving more traffic to its stores and website. Oh yes, WoS also has Hodinkee's customer list.
I think this is a really good point that I wish I would of thought about when we were filming. I agree with this assessment tho.
With that said, does that mean there's a glimmer of hope that Hodinkee could be left alone by WoS? If the articles drive customers to them and they just need the data from Hodinkee, it's possible WoS would allow Ben to have free reins. Wishful thinking, I know, but I'm still hopeful - Jason
The moment you sell watches you lost all objectivity. The end.
I can't argue against that statement - Jason
and thats a good case study of what happens when you lose track of your business proposition and decide to have too much fun at work
Yep, this would make for a great case study. From the giant in the watch journalism space to barely hanging on - Jason
Can’t be unbiased if someone else is signing the checks. Employees have to stay in line.
@@Monetalks good point… that’s the fear a lot of us have - Jason
A lot of people concerned with the Hodinkee "objectivity" take... While watching MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, ABC.
That's the issue. Nobody knows or cares who is objective. The reality is, the market has changed, it grew, and there's a lot options and now the market is contracting back and we have to all get back under the same tent. That's business. Always has been always will be.
That’s very true. For me, I haven’t watched main stream media in years. Registered Independent 😉
But you make a good point. Most media is bought and paid for today - Jason
Looking great but move the laptop - it’s a barrier between you and your audience. ❤
Yeah, my laptop is pretty big. But I needed the notes to stay on task. Your suggestion has been noted 😉 - Jason
As if Hodinkee was a paragon of objective journalism before the WoS acquisition. The media side of this industry is full of leeches writing puff pieces to get special treatment from watch manufacturers and retailers. I think Ben Clymer was way over his head when Hodinkee became more than just a hobbyist sideline, selling the publication to a more business savvy company like WoS will hopefully turn a profit and secure its existence long term.
To distill that down and a saying that my grandparents used to say... they got too big for their breeches! I also hope this lifeline will keep them alive and they can right the ship - Jason
Yes, yes it is
How long do you think it will survive? - Jason
G shock suits you well 🖖
Thank you! It’s my first G-Shock and a favorite in my rotation. Appreciate the support - Felix
I like Hodinkee, it’s not a perfect company and that’s ok
Another site I would recommend if you like full detail watch reviews is Fratello. They operate in Europe
I've run across the Fratello site a few times... nothing bad to say about them because I haven't spent enough time reading through their articles. I'll have to check them out and spend some time looking around - Jason
Don't forget, Fratello is part of Chrono24 since 2018 if I am not mistaken.
@@JenkinsJimbo oh I didn’t know that cause they seems independent from Chrono24. Sometime they mentioned Chrono24 in their podcasts but that’s all
hoedinkee just switched pimps.
Haha... pretty much 😂 - Jason
Hodinkee had their great years… I guess that’s over
Those OG years are definitely behind us. Hoping they can get close enough tho - Jason
Hodinkee is not relevant imo.
Not trustworthy or not relevant? I can get on board with not trustworthy, but I'm not sure they're not relevant. They can get an interview with any watch executive at any watch house, any talking watches video will get massive attention on YT, and people in the community are always mentioning them.
I think they have a chance to remain relevant, but only if they get this right. - Jason
The content hasn’t been the same since Jack Forster left.
That's very true - Jason
The vast majority of Ben’s statements is all “me, me, me.” Not much about the team or Hodinkee.
They have been, but I wonder if that's not because of the spot that he's in with them. This last statement is very much, things went sideways while I was gone but now I'm back to right the ship, in my eyes. So it makes sense it would be a me, me me statement. But I can see how that is rubbing our community wrong. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt... for now anyways - Jason
@@TheWatchBros I’d rather have a hobby with Hodinkee than without them.
Yes... agree - Jason
never read hodinke. watched maybe two of their videos. so maybe they are worth few thousand American bucks.
They were good back in the day bro... it was the place to go find good information - Jason
they paid 15mln
Nice to know. Did you find an article about this? - Jason
Major conflict of interest.
Yeah… it def is - Jason
I can't stand Hodinkee
Well... that's one take 😜 - Jason
@@TheWatchBros It ended for me with the sycophantic John Meyer interactions. Were we to be amazed that a multi-millionaire musician could get a Daytona before the rest of us Joes who have to save up for one or make some sales from our existing collection?
Haha... that's a good point. I'm sure I've had this same thought before, but I guess I gave a pass. But yeah... you're right - Jason