I was travelling down a highway with 2 friends, going at least 80 KPH. We were happily going along, joking and carrying on. Then, out of nowhere, a vehicle pulls straight into my lane and I smash into it. I had no chance to react. All vehicles disintegrate in the impact and there is massive carnage involving all other persons. I walked out of there with not so much as a single bruise or scratch. I tell you the truth, I had no seat belt on.
JOHN LENNOX IS AMAZING!!! HE'S ABLE TO VIEW EVERYTHING, FROM A DISTANCE- OBSERVING ALL THINGS- FROM ALL ANGLES! HE IS SUCH A BRILLIANT, DEEP THINKER, AND VERY HONEST! THE WAY HE'S ABLE TO EXPRESS WORDS IN SUCH A VISUAL, REAL WAY- IS AMAZING! HE'S SO GREAT AT EXPRESSING WHAT IT REALLY MEANS, TO BE CHRISTIAN, WHY GOD IS OUR DIVINE, AWESOME GOD- WHO CREATED ALL LIFE, WITH SUCH GREAT POWER, AND BRILLIANCE- WHICH IS SEEN! Peace, TRUTH, and Love
In the instances where God has made a judgement on a people, it is easily arguable that God in this situation is having mercy. This is the distinguishable pattern. 1 - God declares an annihilation form of judgment to stamp out a cancer 2 - The judgments are for public recognition of extreme sin 3- Judgment is preceded by warning and/or long periods of exposure to the truth and time to repent
Mathenaut, Which 'what if' question is more significant than asking: Did God subject Himself to death to prove to humanity not only does He exist, but loves us beyond comprehension, and entered humanity to provide a foretaste of incomprehensible eternal reality for simply loving Him back out of our own free will? As a person endowed with a curious mind, I would be very interested in this question you've eluded to.
"Also there are specific events that are considered next to impossible but are still accepted as as the best answers to explain certain phenomena." Because they are explanations that best fit the evidence presented. Not just a randomly chosen point of several explanations that conveniently fits what is needed. This is a rather important omission. Small quirks like this permeate much of your rhetoric.
1)"Do a serious study on this subject and you would be foolish to miss it." I was a Christian for 20 years and was sent to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to question my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them question their faith so much that they stopped attending church. Religious beliefs fail miserably when subjected to critical scrutiny.
The problem of evolution is that it essentially does absolutely nothing to address life arising out of inert matter. I have absolutely no qualms about natural selective processes. llya Prigogine, chemist-physicist, recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry, wrote: “The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.
6) What did you think of these ancient holy books when you read them? Bhagavad Gita, & Quran, & Epic of Gilgamesh, & Iliad & Odyssey, & Qayyumu'l-Asma, & Writings of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, & Shoghi Effendi, & the Vedas, the Avestas of Zarathustra, & the Adi-Granth, & Donghak Scripture, & Pyrgi Tablets, & Hermetica, Kybalion, & Svetambara, & Ginza Rba, Qolusta, & Evangelion, & Samaritan Torah, & Kojiki, & Zhuangzi, & Ofudesaki, & Kalam-e Saranjam, & Yazidi. How did you disprove them?
What if the resurrection happened? There are far more plausible and significant 'what if' questions to ask than that. When one can establish and demonstrate that the supernatural even exists, then christianity can start to be taken seriously.
OUTSIDE OF SCIENCE, 'theory' means speculation or 'unproven conjecture'. The definition for 'theory' in a scientific context is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate FACTS and LAWS and tested hypotheses"; 'true in fact and theory'.
Excerpt: Evolution is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a DAILY basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalize observed data and prepare applications.
John Lennox def does his homework. He backs up everything he says with some type of material. Best debater for christians in my opinion. He looks from both sides and still makes more sense to me than any athiest.
2) Christianity offers me something no other religion does: A basis for which to reconcile my own failures to God that are not of myself. No amount of "good deeds" or "bows to the east" or chanting or whatever can reconcile man to God - that is slavery. Christ Jesus ALREADY did all the work for us, that we may be free to approach God in spite of our treachery.
John Lennox: "Just the fact we can do science very strongly points me towards the Christian view. Why? Because if there is no god then my mind is essentially my brain...it has been produced by unguided processes. Okay? Now, one of the things that means...if the human brain has been coddled together like this then we might not expect it to be terribly reliable." Okay, even if we completely AGREE with Mr. Lennox that it MUST have been a god who designed our brain...then that *STILL DOESN'T* get us any closer to an ancient book about talking animals/foliage, rib-women, and magic zombies. There have been THOUSANDS of gods alleged to exist and his god appears just as absurd as the remainder. The *TRUTH* is that he has ZERO evidence which proves his utterly ridiculous religious beliefs.
What if the whole of the natural world we understand is undermined entirely by a significantly new discovery that makes the concept of the supernatural somewhat plausible? What if we discovered a way of identifying and harnessing the supernatural? Both outlandish, but far more significant than something equivalent to "what if fairy tales were real?"
Finally a REASONABLE claim on your behalf. I will address this. First, many of scriptures that people use to make this claim are very often taken directly out of context. Very often people will use scripture that is actually a visionary WARNING of what is to come if the people of Israel do not heed the warning.
Atomic Theory, Theory of Matter and Energy, Cell Theory, Germ Theory, Theory of Plate Tectonics, Theory of Evolution, Theory of Quantum Mechanics, Theory of Relativity, Theory of Light Energy, Theory of Electromagnetism, Theory of Radioactivity, Theory of Molecular Bonds, Theory of Homeostasis, Theory of Gravity, etc.. Which of these other theories (which ALSO describe FACTS) have you investigated and disproven? Maybe radioactivity? Perhaps electromagnetism? How about gravity?
Do physicists of all beliefs not speak of "laws" and the "appearance of fine tuning"? Do biologists not speak of "appearance of design"? When you look at natural beauty, or the vastness of our universe can you not see the artwork therein? Laws exist because of a law-maker. Tuning happens as a result of a tuner. Design exists as a cause of a designer. Art is what results from an artist.
I will be gone this week for work so please don't think I'm ignoring conversation. You are obviously very smart and have done a lot of research. I commend you on that. Type this into your youtube browser and let me know what you think. John Lennox Vs. Richard Dawkins (Christianity Vs. Atheism)
2) Excerpt: Copernicus (1473-1543), Kepler (1571-1630), Galileo (1564-1642), Newton (1643-1727) and Laplace (1749-1827) all fought battles against the Church when they published scientific papers challenging religious orthodoxy. Bible verses were all Christians needed; Joshua 10:12-13, 2 Kings 20:11, Isaiah 38:8, and Isaiah 30:26 all contradicted astronomers. The church went to fight similar ignorant battles and violently impose dogmatic errors, in the arenas of physics, biology and philosophy.
Isn't it an interesting fact that the rib is the only bone in the human body that can actually regenerate itself? Again, I don't need to investigate further any other religions for two reasons: 1) God clearly says the ability to foretell the future with 100% accuracy is His alone. This has been demonstrated throughout ancient history right to modern times.
Brilliant man, brilliant mind, and brilliant reasoning. There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as described in the bible. However, athiests are still unconvinced because they do not want to believe. Their motto is "Please do not confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up"
5) Excerpt: Copernicus (1473-1543), Kepler (1571-1630), Galileo (1564-1642), Newton (1643-1727) and Laplace (1749-1827) all fought battles against the Church when they published scientific papers challenging religious orthodoxy. Bible verses were all Christians needed; Joshua 10:12-13, 2 Kings 20:11, Isaiah 38:8, and Isaiah 30:26 all contradicted astronomers. The church went to fight similar ignorant battles and violently impose dogmatic errors, in the arenas of physics, biology and philosophy.
@Roper112 Maybe you're right. After all, Ravi Zacharias is only the author of 25+ books, a visiting professor teaching apologetics and evangelism at Oxford and has been referred to by commentator Chuck Colson as "the great apologist of our time." Or were you simply trolling maybe?
As to your example: I'd look at the number of earth-sized bodies. I'd look at the number of starts, and the size and number of envelopes that would capture a planet. I'd then look at the number or planet size bodies that are infact planets, and the number that are free from a start. If the numbers seems to fit with reality, I'd say there is nothing to explain. If it wasn't, I'd think "whats going on here", and I'd used the tools of sceince to investigate.
4- Any and all ‘innocent’ adults are given a way of escape with their families; sometimes all given a way to avoid judgment via repentance or leaving a particular region. It should also be noted that expulsion from a land was the most common judgment, not extermination. This pattern goes all the way back to the ejection of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden (cf. Gen. 3:24) 5- Someone is almost always saved (redeemed) from the evil culture 6- The judgment of God falls
The critical tenant of Christianity is belief and acceptance in the resurrection followed by repentance. 1) Love the Lord your God. 2) Love your neighbor. Anything beyond that is just human fallacy and unnecessary divisiveness. It seems silly for anyone to be judging God by the actions of man, doesn't it?
Do you not suppose, that if God showed up today in front of the whole world, people would have any choice to enter a relationship with him? Can love exist when choice doesn't? God has allowed us to chose him or reject him, and I believe he respects our decision.
Excerpt: The level of support for creationism among relevant scientists is minimal. Only 700 out of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists gave credence to creationism in 1987,[21] representing about 0.146% of relevant scientists. Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.0157% of the US biologists that existed in 1999. Even the 700 "creation scientists" are SPLIT among DIFFERENT invisible magic men from DIFFERENT religions who allegedly created the universe.
ROFLMAO!!! Why would you think I hadn't studied the Bible?!?! I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to question my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them question their faith so much that they stopped attending church. Religious beliefs fail miserably when subjected to critical scrutiny.
I wage a guess that if you asked around for people to tell you if they have experienced anything supernatural, you'd be surprised at what you find. God Bless
The only thing logically defined about 'miracles' and the 'supernatural' are explanations about how such events are anything but. While I understand that not all christians are the loopy non-sensical type, I still don't understand the inconsistency in picking and choosing what you will and won't accept at allegorical or literal. I'll look into that essay though; and while the Catholic church provided it's bit in modern culture, the Dark Ages were nothing to marvel at.
I love how he ties religion and science together and then goes straight to Christianity. What about the other hundreds of religions and tens of thousands of gods that man has made up over the years? Or are we to accept that every other group on this planet got it wrong....except for the Christians? Please....
If you wish to find historical evidence of the Gospel, I'd suggest there is plenty of it. Google yourself the book "Cold Case Christianity", a book written by former staunch atheist and cold case homicide detective. Part of me thinks though, that most people don't find God for the same reason that a thief doesn't find a cop.
What a interesting conversation. I don't believe either of us are going to convince the other simply over the internet. Agree to disagree I suppose. This discussion between atheist's and religion can and will certainly go on forever. We both believe what we believe with all our heart from what I gather. I can respect your opinions and suggestions, but like I said before, It would be fullish in my opinion for me to ignore the obvious presence I have experienced in my life. And change for the good
You said "Deceitful how? Have you read the bible?" I told you I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. READING THE BIBLE is what made me become an atheist. You asked "What would be the point of life? You live to die." So what? Just because you don't want to believe that you die and you are gone forever doesn't change anything. I would LOVE to live forever...but the biblical god doesn't appear to exist...
Sir, the devil also doesn't appear to exist...just like the biblical god. These other entities also don't appear to exist: Hobgoblins, Ghosts, Leprechauns, Dragons, Vampires, Fairies, Demons, Angels, Archangels, Changelings, Werewolves, Pixies, Hellhounds, Ghouls, Sirens, Witches, Zombies, Mermaids, Shapeshifters, Giants, Ogres, Banshees, Unicorns, Succubus, Elves, Griffins, Sprites, Centaurs, Gargoyles, Dryads, Gnomes, Trolls, Hobbits, Gremlins. All of them appear fictional.
@luke2thab ^ Well said. I despise the unexamined assumption many atheists and other skeptics seem to have that Christianity has no greater likelihood being true than any other religion, or that the truth claims of all religions are equal. They are not, and this often serves as a flimsy excuse to avoid examining their claims any more closely. Of course the apologist can't prove Christianity is true, but they CAN prove that it is justifiable. Good faith is informed, not blind.
@luke2thab I don't care how many doctorates he has - I don't care how well read he is - I don't care about his experience. The argument that he makes in this video is nonsensical. The best resume in the world does not make up for a poorly argued claim.
There is one single litmus test that God has provided to prove His words above all else. Prophecy. Isaiah 41 22:23 “Tell us, you idols, what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, 23 tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods.
Not the case, Mathenaut. Metaphysics, philosophy, delve deep into the subject. You may have a different personal belief, but exhaustive arguments have been made positively by philosophers of repute. That's an affect of schism, but in terms of a la carte interpretation, that again is something specific to some communions, hardly all. Standards hold to Scriptural interpretation as they do to any other discipline. The allegorical and the literal are for the most part, apparent.
3) You said "I don't believe you were a christian." So, you are calling me a liar. Ok, well, to be honest, I couldn't care less. I don't lie but if that is how you feel then that is perfectly fine. Why would I lie about something like that? I would simply present all of my evidence as an atheist. The MAIN reason that I am an atheist is because of my knowledge of Christianity...I later learned more of all the other religions. Although, like I said...you can think I'm a liar...I don't care.
Isaiah 44 7 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come-. --- It is very clear, only GOD can foretell the future. Lay out your argument for any other text that claims to be the Word of God that can stand up to the prophecy of the Bible.
Since over 30,000 Christian denominations can't even agree on a congruent belief concerning an ancient holy book...it would appear that your god has difficulty espousing his "Word". A book which is "divinely inspired by God" but is so utterly obscure that it is constantly misinterpreted. The ambiguity of the Bible is confirmed through this obvious evidence. This indicates that the biblical god can't make complete sense to anyone. Apparently god is mumbling when talking to people.
Damn...I just watched that LYING FOR JESUS video again and his dishonesty is just unbelievable. As I said before, I have been quote-mined many times but this exact same thing just recently happened. I said something like "A deistic god is entirely possible and most atheists would agree with that statement. I don't happen to believe in a deistic god but I certainly wouldn't say with 100% certainty that one doesn't exist." This somehow turned into "An ATHEIST who BELIEVES in a DEISTIC GOD!!"
Just like John Lennox said , If there is no God, then my mind is essentially my brain. Well if this is true then my brain has been produced by unguided processes. If this is true, then we should expect it to be terribly unreliable. If thoughts are simply random motions in my brain then why should I trust them? Or even more, why should I believe my brain is composed of atoms? You cannot get rationality out of irrationality.
Nope. Its an easliy supported rule of thumb. One we use every day. Based on sound statistics and reasoning. If someone claimed that it rained yesterday, and I saw my car was wet, that would be enought, the statement is likely true. Because rain is common enough. I'd put the odds that it rained at 99.99 But, if some claimed that a space alien dumped a bucket of space water on my car, that would be a different matter. Based on my experience on this earth, I'd put those odds a bit lower.
In fact Christ's claims lead definitively to the miraculous and the supernatural, both of which can be defined logically, and have been. C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful essay entitled "Myth Became Fact." I encourage you to read it. Concerning metaphor,allegory in Scripture, take note that not all believers resemble early 20th century American tent revivalists. Regarding design, Dr. Francis Collins may be of some initial interest. Catholic Europe incidentally has provided some wonderful culture
Conceding that he may have existed is a far cry from validating existence of god. Thus there is the problem. Evidence against only becomes an issue when there is a valid claim to be refuted. Faith in any kind of god(s) has yet to break the null hypothesis. There is nothing to disprove. When you consider that all past 'evidences' for a god's existence have been demonstrated false, and that the biggest arguments supporting it are based upon outright lies...it says something about the position.
Let me correct what I said. I did not mean to state evolution means we came from fish. My apologies for that incorrect statement. Did not mean for it to sound like you believe we came from fish. I know evolution does not make that statement.
I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to doubt my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them doubt their faith so much that they stopped attending church. The Bible is simply ANOTHER ANCIENT HOLY BOOK littered with erroneous information...just like all the other ANCIENT holy books.
There is no more reason to believe in the biblical god than any of the other religions. The MAIN reason that MOST people believe in their particular religion is because of WHERE they were born and/or it was their parent's religion. THOSE are the predominant reasons why MOST people believe in their particular god. It seems somewhat arbitrary. The alleged creator of the universe apparently couldn't care less about ALL of his "beloved children" knowing the ONE TRUE GOD.
@luke2thab I have already stated it - that he tries to conjoin science and religion and somehow end up proving that the Christian god and Christianity are real without providing a shred of evidence to support his position and ignoring all other gods that exist today (or ever). I can see why Dawkins would debate him as he is smarter than the average Christian fundie and would offer a very interesting conversation. The Jesus claim is far from documented and is anything but factual.
Evolution like I said explains what you can do with life after you have the basic components. That in no way means the human race came from a cell that found land, grew feet, and now by chance and necessity we are the only race able to think like we do with the gene make up we have. I also believe the miracles and relationship I feel with God should be taken into account as evidence. We both are going by faith that we are correct whether you call it faith or not. Thank you for the links.
I will have to respectfully disagree with you. I'm sorry to hear you lost your faith. I grew up in a christian home but as I went through my teens and early 20's I started questioning Christianity, however after years of doing life my, ( or trying to with poor results) I found my way back by my choice. I choose to believe in God because of how much different my life is with Jesus in it. For the better. I'm sure you might think that sounds crazy, but I believe it's crazier to deny what i feel.
As to your retorical style, BASSP, I noticed, BASSP, that people use other peoples names this way, BASSP, to try to belittel them. Note Sarah Palin and "Charlie", BASSP. As, I noticed that you said that I arguments "BEGS the question", BASSP, without demonsrtating how it does. Also, "oversimplification"? How simple should I have made it? Isn't that what examples are for? Did you at all support that statement? By this reasoning, you owe me $100.
@Hopefulfilment Why don't you quote correctly. He said that the New Testaments claims that Jesus rose from the dead and that can it be can be investigated by historians. Try to listen to what he says and not what you think he is saying...
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
Does that really go for Christianity though? At first spread around the Mediterranean, it later became the biggest religion in Europe. Today, most Christians are not in any of those areas, but in Asia, Africa and South America. Compare that to Hinduism which was and is centered around India, Buddhism and Taoism around China and Islam which is still strongest around North Africa and West Asia.
@MrTruthhurts777 I agree he has a brilliant mind - he wouldn't have three doctorates otherwise, but his arguments, if you listen carefully, rely heavily in conditional assertions such as "If there is a God who created it and God is a rational God..." These assertions are reinforced by his faith and his favoured scriptures. It is wrong to say atheists "do not want to believe" - they just don't see compelling enough evidence either for the existence or the need for a supernatural agent.
ROFLMAO!!!!! Seriously, thanks for all the laughs...it is greatly appreciated. I don't have to "see above"...your comments were all silly. I present FACTS and EVIDENCE and you respond with excerpts from an ancient book about talking snakes and invisible magic sky zombies. Science has repeatedly disproven numerous silly ancient superstitious religious beliefs...this is the reason that so many gods have been relegated to mythology.
As I said previously, the only way that the biblical god could exist is if he was attempting to deceive all of his beloved children with contradictory evidence. This isn't debatable. The Bible contradicts science and reality...and it's supposedly the "divinely inspired" product of an omniscient and omnipotent god. So, there aren't any other options...either the biblical god is deceitful...or he doesn't exist. Period.
1) Sir, if you have read your Bible then you are ALREADY aware that the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all CONTRADICT each other...so WHY would you ask? 2) If evolution is extrapolated backwards through time then we originated from a much simpler organism = no Adam & Eve = no original sin = no need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium. 3) Cutting off the head of a bird and sprinkling the blood OBVIOUSLY does NOTHING in relation to "leprosy cleansing".
@benaberry i believe in God and i don't fear death.. i've questioned everything from my culture to my religion... both have flaws, but the idea of there being a God or an initial yet infinite source of it all is difficult to automatically throw out as "pathetic" or "ignorant".... people didn't believe in the atom because they could not see it....same with God, but it will be centuries before we can prove "his" existence through science or anything "Earthly"..for now it's just spiritual
You said "The critical tenant of Christianity is belief and acceptance in the resurrection followed by repentance." Once again, it doesn't matter...it is STILL an ENORMOUS group of CONFUSED Christians in 30,000+ denominations...ok? Also, Jesus' alleged resurrection is no more valid than the eight others in the Bible or the dozens of other gods which also allegedly had eyewitnesses for their resurrections. They ALL appear to be figments of imagination from mankind's infancy.
If you believe in history why ignore the countless amount of evidence that states Jesus did exist or that there was a man claiming to be the son of God who called himself Jesus in those times. Or do you just pick which evidence works for you?
Mathenaut - But don't the two questions you've offered infer the same end? Scholars agree about the reality of Christ as historical. Most agree about the evidence concerning manuscript historicity. We should be very careful calling something mythical when it is demonstrably not the case. I believe -- to answer your questions -- that technology has caught up to information that points to design. As for harnessing it? Hyperion to a satyr.
@fearguis ....He's a mathematician. Oddly ( and unlike other apologists ) he doesn't often use maths to prove god, most likely because he knows it's rubbish, and is a tad embarrassed about it.
"the Laws of Logic, which are not scientifically testable." Sciencefail. Those aren't physical laws. Those are definitions based upon real-world observation, plugged into a system that builds upon itself. Whether or not it is 'likely' is beside the point. The matter is that the evidence points to one conclusion as opposed to another. This is not a difficult concept.
Most interestingly, he cites subjective experience as 'hard fact', by referencing the positive ends of people who have supposedly found his particular god. What about those who have fallen from faith? What do you say to the Atheists who believed so strongly, then turned away after they opened their eyes? As for the mind being unreliable, it is. Much is not understood, particularly of functions leading to social and mental disorders. This 'basis for rationality' nonsense is lol.
You said that you have done research...but you don't even realize that evolution is a FACT. Excerpt: James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated states that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell which has substantial implications for combatting cancer relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions. McCarter points out that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology also depended on the use of EVOLUTIONARY theory.
Here is another example: "a logical, systematic set of principles or explanation that has undergone testing or validation from careful observations and HAS STOOD UP AGAINST ATTEMPTS TO PROVE IT FALSE. A scientific theory can be used to make a variety of predictions of what will happen under different circumstances." So, yes, Evolution is a FACT of life...and it is quite OBVIOUS that you didn't bother to do any investigation because you ALREADY believed you had the answers...the biblical god.
"All science depends on a fundamental faith that the universe is rationally intelligible." No. Just no. Science attempts to explain what is observed in the universe, and simply put, some things aren't so easy to explain. There is no 'faith' involved, unless you're into the habit of making up explanations for the sake of feigning knowledge. "I would be a fool to believe in god if there wasn't any evidence." Thus, the stance behind the atheist position. He disregards it so... Oh, the irony.
Yes they can prove what happens after you have life but cannot explain where life came from or why the universe works in such precise ways. Please tell me of a self replicating Genome? Dawkins even admits that there may be intelligent species who designed us. Someone like Sir Richard Dawkins believes something like that is a possibility but the idea of God is absurd?
I challenged you to prove a LOGICAL and NATURALISTIC explanation for the history of the Israeli people of GOD that was very clearly prophesied by the prophets of antiquity. Yes, please explain it. If you would like me to lay out the exact prophecies and how they have EXACTLY come to pass as foretold, I shall.
Sir, once again, your comments were all silly. I already told you I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. It ISN'T IGNORANCE of Christianity which made me an atheist...IT IS KNOWLEDGE. Also, not only is evolution a fact...but even the MAJORITY of YOUR religious brethren DISAGREE with YOU. Most Christians accept evolution as fact due to the overwhelming evidence. Google "Level of support for evolution".
You said "I just pray you see the light as you once did before Jesus comesback" Sir, please don't pray for me since it would obviously be a complete waste of time. If the biblical god allows millions of children to starve to death every year (many of which are certainly Christians and praying to him for food) then OBVIOUSLY he isn't going to listen to YOUR prayers about trying to save an atheist. Why would YOUR suggestion be better than your god's plan? It wouldn't.
A physical system that can process symbols according to the mathematical laws of logic will have a huge evolutionary advantage over other systems that cannot do so. This is why we evolved to be rational and logic (up to a point). Besides that elemental flaw, there is also the issue that this guy is, sadly, not knowledgeable of philosophy. There are more possibilities than just "God and Christianity" and materialism. There are other religions and naturalist monistic idealism... many other ways
Also... many other persons have been claimed to raise from the dead. This is no outstanding evidence :/ I mean, IO am torn apart by this nonsense because my gay boyfriend is Christian and I want to respect his beliefs. I love him so much, but I still think this is nonsense :/
You COMPLETELY IGNORED THE CONTENT OF MY COMMENT. Your god isn't going to listen to your prayers about an atheist if he ignores millions of starving children. This should be completely obvious. You also said "I also believe the miracles and relationship I feel with God should be taken into account as evidence." No, those things aren't evidence...any more than a Muslim's alleged relationship with their god. I'm NOT relying on faith...I base my beliefs on EVIDENCE. YOU base yours on faith.
I thought I made it abundantly clear...that ALL of the THOUSANDS of gods appear to be fictional. Not all of them EXCEPT for YOURS. I answered your question. You didn't answer any of mine. The biblical god's alleged resurrection in the Bible is only one of at least NINE. The majority of biblical resurrections were (obviously) performed on mere mortal men. So, not only is Jesus just one of MANY resurrections in the Bible...but he is just one of DOZENS of gods which were supposedly resurrected.
On the contrary, the chances are that I have committed much worse acts in this lifetime than you, friend. I definitely try not to look down my nose at anyone. My simple point was I don't think many people genuinely seek God. Evidence for supernatural? Do some searches for stories about Ouija Boards. I also have a personal story I will share...
Actually there is a reason to believe in the God of the bible. The reason is prophecy. Do a serious study on this subject and you would be foolish to miss it. Netflix has "the daniel prophecy movie" God in Isaiah clearly sets the litmus test for what is His word and what isn't. It is quite clear.
I was travelling down a highway with 2 friends, going at least 80 KPH. We were happily going along, joking and carrying on. Then, out of nowhere, a vehicle pulls straight into my lane and I smash into it. I had no chance to react. All vehicles disintegrate in the impact and there is massive carnage involving all other persons. I walked out of there with not so much as a single bruise or scratch. I tell you the truth, I had no seat belt on.
JOHN LENNOX IS AMAZING!!! HE'S ABLE TO VIEW EVERYTHING, FROM A DISTANCE- OBSERVING ALL THINGS- FROM ALL ANGLES! HE IS SUCH A BRILLIANT, DEEP THINKER, AND VERY HONEST! THE WAY HE'S ABLE TO EXPRESS WORDS IN SUCH A VISUAL, REAL WAY- IS AMAZING! HE'S SO GREAT AT EXPRESSING WHAT IT REALLY MEANS, TO BE CHRISTIAN, WHY GOD IS OUR DIVINE, AWESOME GOD- WHO CREATED ALL LIFE, WITH SUCH GREAT POWER, AND BRILLIANCE- WHICH IS SEEN! Peace, TRUTH, and Love
In the instances where God has made a judgement on a people, it is easily arguable that God in this situation is having mercy. This is the distinguishable pattern.
1 - God declares an annihilation form of judgment to stamp out a cancer
2 - The judgments are for public recognition of extreme sin
3- Judgment is preceded by warning and/or long periods of exposure to the truth and time to repent
Mathenaut,
Which 'what if' question is more significant than asking:
Did God subject Himself to death to prove to humanity not only does He exist, but loves us beyond comprehension, and entered humanity to provide a foretaste of incomprehensible eternal reality for simply loving Him back out of our own free will?
As a person endowed with a curious mind, I would be very interested in this question you've eluded to.
"Also there are specific events that are considered next to impossible but are still accepted as as the best answers to explain certain phenomena."
Because they are explanations that best fit the evidence presented. Not just a randomly chosen point of several explanations that conveniently fits what is needed.
This is a rather important omission. Small quirks like this permeate much of your rhetoric.
1)"Do a serious study on this subject and you would be foolish to miss it."
I was a Christian for 20 years and was sent to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to question my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them question their faith so much that they stopped attending church. Religious beliefs fail miserably when subjected to critical scrutiny.
The problem of evolution is that it essentially does absolutely nothing to address life arising out of inert matter. I have absolutely no qualms about natural selective processes.
llya Prigogine, chemist-physicist, recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry, wrote: “The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.
6) What did you think of these ancient holy books when you read them?
Bhagavad Gita, & Quran, & Epic of Gilgamesh, & Iliad & Odyssey, & Qayyumu'l-Asma, & Writings of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, & Shoghi Effendi, & the Vedas, the Avestas of Zarathustra, & the Adi-Granth, & Donghak Scripture, & Pyrgi Tablets, & Hermetica, Kybalion, & Svetambara, & Ginza Rba, Qolusta, & Evangelion, & Samaritan Torah, & Kojiki, & Zhuangzi, & Ofudesaki, & Kalam-e Saranjam, & Yazidi.
How did you disprove them?
@MrTruthhurts777 Where can I find this overwhelming evidence?
What if the resurrection happened?
There are far more plausible and significant 'what if' questions to ask than that.
When one can establish and demonstrate that the supernatural even exists, then christianity can start to be taken seriously.
"if the human brain has been cobbled together, we might not expect it to be terribly reliable"
Yes, exactly. That is how religion came to be.
OUTSIDE OF SCIENCE, 'theory' means speculation or 'unproven conjecture'. The definition for 'theory' in a scientific context is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate FACTS and LAWS and tested hypotheses"; 'true in fact and theory'.
Excerpt: Evolution is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a DAILY basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalize observed data and prepare applications.
He's speaking a sophisticated form of intelligent design.
John Lennox def does his homework. He backs up everything he says with some type of material. Best debater for christians in my opinion. He looks from both sides and still makes more sense to me than any athiest.
I wasn't saying you believe in it, just making the point that we can't rule it out.
2) Christianity offers me something no other religion does: A basis for which to reconcile my own failures to God that are not of myself. No amount of "good deeds" or "bows to the east" or chanting or whatever can reconcile man to God - that is slavery.
Christ Jesus ALREADY did all the work for us, that we may be free to approach God in spite of our treachery.
John Lennox: "Just the fact we can do science very strongly points me towards the Christian view. Why? Because if there is no god then my mind is essentially my brain...it has been produced by unguided processes. Okay? Now, one of the things that means...if the human brain has been coddled together like this then we might not expect it to be terribly reliable."
Okay, even if we completely AGREE with Mr. Lennox that it MUST have been a god who designed our brain...then that *STILL DOESN'T* get us any closer to an ancient book about talking animals/foliage, rib-women, and magic zombies. There have been THOUSANDS of gods alleged to exist and his god appears just as absurd as the remainder.
The *TRUTH* is that he has ZERO evidence which proves his utterly ridiculous religious beliefs.
What if the whole of the natural world we understand is undermined entirely by a significantly new discovery that makes the concept of the supernatural somewhat plausible? What if we discovered a way of identifying and harnessing the supernatural?
Both outlandish, but far more significant than something equivalent to "what if fairy tales were real?"
Finally a REASONABLE claim on your behalf. I will address this.
First, many of scriptures that people use to make this claim are very often taken directly out of context. Very often people will use scripture that is actually a visionary WARNING of what is to come if the people of Israel do not heed the warning.
Julunggul, Wawalag, Tammuz, Ishtar, Quetzalcoatl, Xipe Totec, Baal, Eshmun, Melqart, Jesus, Zalmoxis, Osiris, Amun, Horus, Amun-Min, Atunis (also known as Adonis), Lemminkainen, Cronus, Donysus, Orpheus, Persephone, Chinnamasta, Iravan, Barbarika, Izanangi, Lailah, Heitsi-eibib, Baridegi, Kaknu, Gullveig, Odin, Baldr, Attis, Aeneas, Bacchus, Proserpina, Jarilo, Kostroma, Marzanna, Dumuzi, Inanna, Obatala, Moremi Ajasoro.
Were all these other gods also resurrected?...or just yours?
Atomic Theory, Theory of Matter and Energy, Cell Theory, Germ Theory, Theory of Plate Tectonics, Theory of Evolution, Theory of Quantum Mechanics, Theory of Relativity, Theory of Light Energy, Theory of Electromagnetism, Theory of Radioactivity, Theory of Molecular Bonds, Theory of Homeostasis, Theory of Gravity, etc..
Which of these other theories (which ALSO describe FACTS) have you investigated and disproven? Maybe radioactivity? Perhaps electromagnetism? How about gravity?
Do physicists of all beliefs not speak of "laws" and the "appearance of fine tuning"? Do biologists not speak of "appearance of design"? When you look at natural beauty, or the vastness of our universe can you not see the artwork therein?
Laws exist because of a law-maker. Tuning happens as a result of a tuner. Design exists as a cause of a designer. Art is what results from an artist.
I will be gone this week for work so please don't think I'm ignoring conversation. You are obviously very smart and have done a lot of research. I commend you on that. Type this into your youtube browser and let me know what you think. John Lennox Vs. Richard Dawkins (Christianity Vs. Atheism)
2) Excerpt: Copernicus (1473-1543), Kepler (1571-1630), Galileo (1564-1642), Newton (1643-1727) and Laplace (1749-1827) all fought battles against the Church when they published scientific papers challenging religious orthodoxy. Bible verses were all Christians needed; Joshua 10:12-13, 2 Kings 20:11, Isaiah 38:8, and Isaiah 30:26 all contradicted astronomers. The church went to fight similar ignorant battles and violently impose dogmatic errors, in the arenas of physics, biology and philosophy.
Isn't it an interesting fact that the rib is the only bone in the human body that can actually regenerate itself?
Again, I don't need to investigate further any other religions for two reasons:
1) God clearly says the ability to foretell the future with 100% accuracy is His alone. This has been demonstrated throughout ancient history right to modern times.
Brilliant man, brilliant mind, and brilliant reasoning. There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as described in the bible. However, athiests are still unconvinced because they do not want to believe. Their motto is "Please do not confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up"
5) Excerpt: Copernicus (1473-1543), Kepler (1571-1630), Galileo (1564-1642), Newton (1643-1727) and Laplace (1749-1827) all fought battles against the Church when they published scientific papers challenging religious orthodoxy. Bible verses were all Christians needed; Joshua 10:12-13, 2 Kings 20:11, Isaiah 38:8, and Isaiah 30:26 all contradicted astronomers. The church went to fight similar ignorant battles and violently impose dogmatic errors, in the arenas of physics, biology and philosophy.
@Roper112 Maybe you're right. After all, Ravi Zacharias is only the author of 25+ books, a visiting professor teaching apologetics and evangelism at Oxford and has been referred to by commentator Chuck Colson as "the great apologist of our time." Or were you simply trolling maybe?
As to your example:
I'd look at the number of earth-sized bodies. I'd look at the number of starts, and the size and number of envelopes that would capture a planet.
I'd then look at the number or planet size bodies that are infact planets, and the number that are free from a start. If the numbers seems to fit with reality, I'd say there is nothing to explain. If it wasn't, I'd think "whats going on here", and I'd used the tools of sceince to investigate.
This argument can go both ways just because there's books that say God doesn't exist does'nt make it true
4- Any and all ‘innocent’ adults are given a way of escape with their families; sometimes all given a way to avoid judgment via repentance or leaving a particular region. It should also be noted that expulsion from a land was the most common judgment, not extermination. This pattern goes all the way back to the ejection of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden (cf. Gen. 3:24)
5- Someone is almost always saved (redeemed) from the evil culture
6- The judgment of God falls
The critical tenant of Christianity is belief and acceptance in the resurrection followed by repentance.
1) Love the Lord your God.
2) Love your neighbor.
Anything beyond that is just human fallacy and unnecessary divisiveness.
It seems silly for anyone to be judging God by the actions of man, doesn't it?
Do you not suppose, that if God showed up today in front of the whole world, people would have any choice to enter a relationship with him? Can love exist when choice doesn't? God has allowed us to chose him or reject him, and I believe he respects our decision.
Excerpt: The level of support for creationism among relevant scientists is minimal. Only 700 out of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists gave credence to creationism in 1987,[21] representing about 0.146% of relevant scientists. Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.0157% of the US biologists that existed in 1999.
Even the 700 "creation scientists" are SPLIT among DIFFERENT invisible magic men from DIFFERENT religions who allegedly created the universe.
ROFLMAO!!! Why would you think I hadn't studied the Bible?!?!
I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to question my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them question their faith so much that they stopped attending church. Religious beliefs fail miserably when subjected to critical scrutiny.
I wage a guess that if you asked around for people to tell you if they have experienced anything supernatural, you'd be surprised at what you find.
God Bless
The only thing logically defined about 'miracles' and the 'supernatural' are explanations about how such events are anything but.
While I understand that not all christians are the loopy non-sensical type, I still don't understand the inconsistency in picking and choosing what you will and won't accept at allegorical or literal.
I'll look into that essay though; and while the Catholic church provided it's bit in modern culture, the Dark Ages were nothing to marvel at.
I love how he ties religion and science together and then goes straight to Christianity. What about the other hundreds of religions and tens of thousands of gods that man has made up over the years? Or are we to accept that every other group on this planet got it wrong....except for the Christians? Please....
@fearguis I think you'll find he's a professor of Mathematics and the Philosophy of Science at a little place called Oxford University. ;)
If you wish to find historical evidence of the Gospel, I'd suggest there is plenty of it.
Google yourself the book "Cold Case Christianity", a book written by former staunch atheist and cold case homicide detective.
Part of me thinks though, that most people don't find God for the same reason that a thief doesn't find a cop.
What a interesting conversation. I don't believe either of us are going to convince the other simply over the internet. Agree to disagree I suppose. This discussion between atheist's and religion can and will certainly go on forever. We both believe what we believe with all our heart from what I gather. I can respect your opinions and suggestions, but like I said before, It would be fullish in my opinion for me to ignore the obvious presence I have experienced in my life. And change for the good
@danmeast I liked your comment. God bless
You said "Deceitful how? Have you read the bible?"
I told you I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. READING THE BIBLE is what made me become an atheist.
You asked "What would be the point of life? You live to die."
So what? Just because you don't want to believe that you die and you are gone forever doesn't change anything. I would LOVE to live forever...but the biblical god doesn't appear to exist...
Sir, the devil also doesn't appear to exist...just like the biblical god. These other entities also don't appear to exist:
Hobgoblins, Ghosts, Leprechauns, Dragons, Vampires, Fairies, Demons, Angels, Archangels, Changelings, Werewolves, Pixies, Hellhounds, Ghouls, Sirens, Witches, Zombies, Mermaids, Shapeshifters, Giants, Ogres, Banshees, Unicorns, Succubus, Elves, Griffins, Sprites, Centaurs, Gargoyles, Dryads, Gnomes, Trolls, Hobbits, Gremlins.
All of them appear fictional.
@luke2thab ^ Well said. I despise the unexamined assumption many atheists and other skeptics seem to have that Christianity has no greater likelihood being true than any other religion, or that the truth claims of all religions are equal. They are not, and this often serves as a flimsy excuse to avoid examining their claims any more closely. Of course the apologist can't prove Christianity is true, but they CAN prove that it is justifiable. Good faith is informed, not blind.
@luke2thab I don't care how many doctorates he has - I don't care how well read he is - I don't care about his experience. The argument that he makes in this video is nonsensical. The best resume in the world does not make up for a poorly argued claim.
There is one single litmus test that God has provided to prove His words above all else. Prophecy.
Isaiah 41 22:23
“Tell us, you idols,
what is going to happen.
Tell us what the former things were,
so that we may consider them
and know their final outcome.
Or declare to us the things to come,
23 tell us what the future holds,
so we may know that you are gods.
Not the case, Mathenaut. Metaphysics, philosophy, delve deep into the subject. You may have a different personal belief, but exhaustive arguments have been made positively by philosophers of repute.
That's an affect of schism, but in terms of a la carte interpretation, that again is something specific to some communions, hardly all.
Standards hold to Scriptural interpretation as they do to any other discipline.
The allegorical and the literal are for the most part, apparent.
3) You said "I don't believe you were a christian."
So, you are calling me a liar. Ok, well, to be honest, I couldn't care less. I don't lie but if that is how you feel then that is perfectly fine.
Why would I lie about something like that? I would simply present all of my evidence as an atheist. The MAIN reason that I am an atheist is because of my knowledge of Christianity...I later learned more of all the other religions.
Although, like I said...you can think I'm a liar...I don't care.
Isaiah 44 7
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come-.
--- It is very clear, only GOD can foretell the future. Lay out your argument for any other text that claims to be the Word of God that can stand up to the prophecy of the Bible.
Since over 30,000 Christian denominations can't even agree on a congruent belief concerning an ancient holy book...it would appear that your god has difficulty espousing his "Word". A book which is "divinely inspired by God" but is so utterly obscure that it is constantly misinterpreted. The ambiguity of the Bible is confirmed through this obvious evidence. This indicates that the biblical god can't make complete sense to anyone.
Apparently god is mumbling when talking to people.
Damn...I just watched that LYING FOR JESUS video again and his dishonesty is just unbelievable.
As I said before, I have been quote-mined many times but this exact same thing just recently happened.
I said something like "A deistic god is entirely possible and most atheists would agree with that statement. I don't happen to believe in a deistic god but I certainly wouldn't say with 100% certainty that one doesn't exist."
This somehow turned into "An ATHEIST who BELIEVES in a DEISTIC GOD!!"
Just like John Lennox said , If there is no God, then my mind is essentially my brain. Well if this is true then my brain has been produced by unguided processes. If this is true, then we should expect it to be terribly unreliable. If thoughts are simply random motions in my brain then why should I trust them? Or even more, why should I believe my brain is composed of atoms? You cannot get rationality out of irrationality.
Nope. Its an easliy supported rule of thumb. One we use every day. Based on sound statistics and reasoning.
If someone claimed that it rained yesterday, and I saw my car was wet, that would be enought, the statement is likely true. Because rain is common enough. I'd put the odds that it rained at 99.99
But, if some claimed that a space alien dumped a bucket of space water on my car, that would be a different matter. Based on my experience on this earth, I'd put those odds a bit lower.
In fact Christ's claims lead definitively to the miraculous and the supernatural, both of which can be defined logically, and have been.
C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful essay entitled "Myth Became Fact." I encourage you to read it.
Concerning metaphor,allegory in Scripture, take note that not all believers resemble early 20th century American tent revivalists.
Regarding design, Dr. Francis Collins may be of some initial interest.
Catholic Europe incidentally has provided some wonderful culture
Conceding that he may have existed is a far cry from validating existence of god.
Thus there is the problem. Evidence against only becomes an issue when there is a valid claim to be refuted. Faith in any kind of god(s) has yet to break the null hypothesis. There is nothing to disprove.
When you consider that all past 'evidences' for a god's existence have been demonstrated false, and that the biggest arguments supporting it are based upon outright lies...it says something about the position.
It does not matter how "intelligently" he tries to wrap his arguments, it still is nothing but: BUT THE BIBLE, AND GOD, AND GOD AND THE BIBLE !
What exactly do you believe?
Let me correct what I said. I did not mean to state evolution means we came from fish. My apologies for that incorrect statement. Did not mean for it to sound like you believe we came from fish. I know evolution does not make that statement.
I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I began to doubt my faith as I grew older and I turned to my Bible for answers. Becoming more familiar with biblical content resulted in my apostasy. Subsequent conversations with my parents made them doubt their faith so much that they stopped attending church.
The Bible is simply ANOTHER ANCIENT HOLY BOOK littered with erroneous information...just like all the other ANCIENT holy books.
There is no more reason to believe in the biblical god than any of the other religions. The MAIN reason that MOST people believe in their particular religion is because of WHERE they were born and/or it was their parent's religion.
THOSE are the predominant reasons why MOST people believe in their particular god. It seems somewhat arbitrary.
The alleged creator of the universe apparently couldn't care less about ALL of his "beloved children" knowing the ONE TRUE GOD.
@luke2thab I have already stated it - that he tries to conjoin science and religion and somehow end up proving that the Christian god and Christianity are real without providing a shred of evidence to support his position and ignoring all other gods that exist today (or ever).
I can see why Dawkins would debate him as he is smarter than the average Christian fundie and would offer a very interesting conversation.
The Jesus claim is far from documented and is anything but factual.
Evolution like I said explains what you can do with life after you have the basic components. That in no way means the human race came from a cell that found land, grew feet, and now by chance and necessity we are the only race able to think like we do with the gene make up we have. I also believe the miracles and relationship I feel with God should be taken into account as evidence. We both are going by faith that we are correct whether you call it faith or not. Thank you for the links.
I will have to respectfully disagree with you. I'm sorry to hear you lost your faith. I grew up in a christian home but as I went through my teens and early 20's I started questioning Christianity, however after years of doing life my, ( or trying to with poor results) I found my way back by my choice. I choose to believe in God because of how much different my life is with Jesus in it. For the better. I'm sure you might think that sounds crazy, but I believe it's crazier to deny what i feel.
As to your retorical style, BASSP, I noticed, BASSP, that people use other peoples names this way, BASSP, to try to belittel them. Note Sarah Palin and "Charlie", BASSP. As, I noticed that you said that I arguments "BEGS the question", BASSP, without demonsrtating how it does. Also, "oversimplification"? How simple should I have made it? Isn't that what examples are for? Did you at all support that statement?
By this reasoning, you owe me $100.
@Hopefulfilment Why don't you quote correctly. He said that the New Testaments claims that Jesus rose from the dead and that can it be can be investigated by historians. Try to listen to what he says and not what you think he is saying...
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
Does that really go for Christianity though? At first spread around the Mediterranean, it later became the biggest religion in Europe. Today, most Christians are not in any of those areas, but in Asia, Africa and South America.
Compare that to Hinduism which was and is centered around India, Buddhism and Taoism around China and Islam which is still strongest around North Africa and West Asia.
@MrTruthhurts777
I agree he has a brilliant mind - he wouldn't have three doctorates otherwise, but his arguments, if you listen carefully, rely heavily in conditional assertions such as "If there is a God who created it and God is a rational God..." These assertions are reinforced by his faith and his favoured scriptures. It is wrong to say atheists "do not want to believe" - they just don't see compelling enough evidence either for the existence or the need for a supernatural agent.
ROFLMAO!!!!! Seriously, thanks for all the laughs...it is greatly appreciated.
I don't have to "see above"...your comments were all silly. I present FACTS and EVIDENCE and you respond with excerpts from an ancient book about talking snakes and invisible magic sky zombies.
Science has repeatedly disproven numerous silly ancient superstitious religious beliefs...this is the reason that so many gods have been relegated to mythology.
As I said previously, the only way that the biblical god could exist is if he was attempting to deceive all of his beloved children with contradictory evidence. This isn't debatable. The Bible contradicts science and reality...and it's supposedly the "divinely inspired" product of an omniscient and omnipotent god.
So, there aren't any other options...either the biblical god is deceitful...or he doesn't exist. Period.
1) Sir, if you have read your Bible then you are ALREADY aware that the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all CONTRADICT each other...so WHY would you ask?
2) If evolution is extrapolated backwards through time then we originated from a much simpler organism = no Adam & Eve = no original sin = no need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium.
3) Cutting off the head of a bird and sprinkling the blood OBVIOUSLY does NOTHING in relation to "leprosy cleansing".
@fearguis Either that, or he is at Oxford, the same school as Dawkins.
reasonablefaith org/slaughter-of-the-canaanites
If you are particularly concerned about the story of the Canaanites.
@benaberry i believe in God and i don't fear death.. i've questioned everything from my culture to my religion... both have flaws, but the idea of there being a God or an initial yet infinite source of it all is difficult to automatically throw out as "pathetic" or "ignorant".... people didn't believe in the atom because they could not see it....same with God, but it will be centuries before we can prove "his" existence through science or anything "Earthly"..for now it's just spiritual
You said "The critical tenant of Christianity is belief and acceptance in the resurrection followed by repentance."
Once again, it doesn't matter...it is STILL an ENORMOUS group of CONFUSED Christians in 30,000+ denominations...ok?
Also, Jesus' alleged resurrection is no more valid than the eight others in the Bible or the dozens of other gods which also allegedly had eyewitnesses for their resurrections.
They ALL appear to be figments of imagination from mankind's infancy.
If you believe in history why ignore the countless amount of evidence that states Jesus did exist or that there was a man claiming to be the son of God who called himself Jesus in those times. Or do you just pick which evidence works for you?
@ajacmac Thank you!
Mathenaut - But don't the two questions you've offered infer the same end?
Scholars agree about the reality of Christ as historical. Most agree about the evidence concerning manuscript historicity.
We should be very careful calling something mythical when it is demonstrably not the case.
I believe -- to answer your questions -- that technology has caught up to information that points to design.
As for harnessing it?
Hyperion to a satyr.
@fearguis ....He's a mathematician.
Oddly ( and unlike other apologists ) he doesn't often use maths to prove god, most likely because he knows it's rubbish, and is a tad embarrassed about it.
"the Laws of Logic, which are not scientifically testable."
Sciencefail. Those aren't physical laws. Those are definitions based upon real-world observation, plugged into a system that builds upon itself.
Whether or not it is 'likely' is beside the point. The matter is that the evidence points to one conclusion as opposed to another.
This is not a difficult concept.
Ravi Zacharias is even worse than John Lennox... if that were possible.
The pair of them are on the " weak " end of apologetics
Most interestingly, he cites subjective experience as 'hard fact', by referencing the positive ends of people who have supposedly found his particular god.
What about those who have fallen from faith? What do you say to the Atheists who believed so strongly, then turned away after they opened their eyes?
As for the mind being unreliable, it is. Much is not understood, particularly of functions leading to social and mental disorders.
This 'basis for rationality' nonsense is lol.
You said that you have done research...but you don't even realize that evolution is a FACT.
Excerpt: James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated states that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell which has substantial implications for combatting cancer relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions. McCarter points out that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology also depended on the use of EVOLUTIONARY theory.
Here is another example: "a logical, systematic set of principles or explanation that has undergone testing or validation from careful observations and HAS STOOD UP AGAINST ATTEMPTS TO PROVE IT FALSE. A scientific theory can be used to make a variety of predictions of what will happen under different circumstances."
So, yes, Evolution is a FACT of life...and it is quite OBVIOUS that you didn't bother to do any investigation because you ALREADY believed you had the answers...the biblical god.
I challenge you to provide a logical explanation for prophecies therein.
"All science depends on a fundamental faith that the universe is rationally intelligible."
No. Just no. Science attempts to explain what is observed in the universe, and simply put, some things aren't so easy to explain. There is no 'faith' involved, unless you're into the habit of making up explanations for the sake of feigning knowledge.
"I would be a fool to believe in god if there wasn't any evidence."
Thus, the stance behind the atheist position. He disregards it so...
Oh, the irony.
Yes they can prove what happens after you have life but cannot explain where life came from or why the universe works in such precise ways. Please tell me of a self replicating Genome? Dawkins even admits that there may be intelligent species who designed us. Someone like Sir Richard Dawkins believes something like that is a possibility but the idea of God is absurd?
I challenged you to prove a LOGICAL and NATURALISTIC explanation for the history of the Israeli people of GOD that was very clearly prophesied by the prophets of antiquity.
Yes, please explain it. If you would like me to lay out the exact prophecies and how they have EXACTLY come to pass as foretold, I shall.
Sir, once again, your comments were all silly. I already told you I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. It ISN'T IGNORANCE of Christianity which made me an atheist...IT IS KNOWLEDGE.
Also, not only is evolution a fact...but even the MAJORITY of YOUR religious brethren DISAGREE with YOU. Most Christians accept evolution as fact due to the overwhelming evidence.
Google "Level of support for evolution".
You said "I just pray you see the light as you once did before Jesus comesback"
Sir, please don't pray for me since it would obviously be a complete waste of time. If the biblical god allows millions of children to starve to death every year (many of which are certainly Christians and praying to him for food) then OBVIOUSLY he isn't going to listen to YOUR prayers about trying to save an atheist.
Why would YOUR suggestion be better than your god's plan?
It wouldn't.
7 minutes and 52 seconds of hot air. Religious hucksterism at it's finest.
A physical system that can process symbols according to the mathematical laws of logic will have a huge evolutionary advantage over other systems that cannot do so. This is why we evolved to be rational and logic (up to a point).
Besides that elemental flaw, there is also the issue that this guy is, sadly, not knowledgeable of philosophy. There are more possibilities than just "God and Christianity" and materialism. There are other religions and naturalist monistic idealism... many other ways
@ajacmac what is your position on god?
Also... many other persons have been claimed to raise from the dead. This is no outstanding evidence :/ I mean, IO am torn apart by this nonsense because my gay boyfriend is Christian and I want to respect his beliefs. I love him so much, but I still think this is nonsense :/
You COMPLETELY IGNORED THE CONTENT OF MY COMMENT. Your god isn't going to listen to your prayers about an atheist if he ignores millions of starving children. This should be completely obvious.
You also said "I also believe the miracles and relationship I feel with God should be taken into account as evidence."
No, those things aren't evidence...any more than a Muslim's alleged relationship with their god.
I'm NOT relying on faith...I base my beliefs on EVIDENCE. YOU base yours on faith.
I thought I made it abundantly clear...that ALL of the THOUSANDS of gods appear to be fictional.
Not all of them EXCEPT for YOURS.
I answered your question. You didn't answer any of mine. The biblical god's alleged resurrection in the Bible is only one of at least NINE. The majority of biblical resurrections were (obviously) performed on mere mortal men. So, not only is Jesus just one of MANY resurrections in the Bible...but he is just one of DOZENS of gods which were supposedly resurrected.
On the contrary, the chances are that I have committed much worse acts in this lifetime than you, friend. I definitely try not to look down my nose at anyone. My simple point was I don't think many people genuinely seek God.
Evidence for supernatural? Do some searches for stories about Ouija Boards. I also have a personal story I will share...
Actually there is a reason to believe in the God of the bible. The reason is prophecy. Do a serious study on this subject and you would be foolish to miss it.
Netflix has "the daniel prophecy movie"
God in Isaiah clearly sets the litmus test for what is His word and what isn't. It is quite clear.