Venev OCB Resin Bonded Diamond Stones | In-depth Review
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- In this video I’ll go over the ins and outs of the Venev OCB Bonded Diamond Stones. These stones are much better than the original formula stones that had a more abrasive resin. The OCB formula gives more feedback and a much nicer and more even polish (especially in the high grits). This video is very thorough and there’s a lot of info packed into it. I hope this can help you guys decide if you want to try the stone(s) yourself or help you decide that you don’t need them in your life. I personally love them and use them all the time. If you guys have any questions feel free to leave them in the comments or email me at iheartknives@yahoo.com
Thanks for watching!
I’m in a McDonald’s bathroom shitting my brains out. I clicked on this video to see you staring past the threads of my being into my souls for about 5 seconds. Im having one of those moments where I’m like... wow, this is where I am right now. Life is real.... huh.
Good information! I’ve found that the higher grit ( 25% bonded venev stones) are pretty useless. They seem to burnish rather than cut steel. After 1200 grit I would recommend falling back to ceramic stones or higher grit sic stones. Agree with you that at lower grits there’s nothing to beat them for speed, ease of use and feedback. A pleasure to use with just splash and go....
14:11 the original version was phenyl resin which is widely available and fairly low tech, once you bake it and it cures then it becomes really hard and heat resistant. they didn’t add any other cutters when the option was available. the diamond abrasive is one karat per cubic centimeter on the 100% versions so on the dragon stone’s it is 19 karat’s per side. i can buy abrasive diamonds in any grit 25 karat for $10 and then just get the resin and diy the stone for around $20 total or i could add additional cutters. cbn isn’t expensive by itself. the dragon stones are almost $300 right now because it’s made in russia so limited availability, originally they were $80 so it’s not like there is actually $300 of production value in these stones and now there’s a hole in the market for something that we could probably all make at home once someone makes a youtube video about it. i wonder what is up with the ocb bonder
they're $300 cuz dumb knife bros are willing to pay that from a guy reselling them in the US. That stone costs like $50 in Russia. They sell them in Europe for about $75 to $85. But America is the land of big money and no brains. Wont last another generation but enjoy it for now.
if you think thats bad look gimmicky scams like diamond emulsions like gunny juice or anything like that. They're buying generic industrial diamond slurry anyone can find even on amazon and they're marking it up 1000x and knife bros eat this stuff up and think they're getting something amazing. I can literally buy a gallon of the same stuff for the price knife bros are paying for a tiny little half ounce bottle like a spoon full.. Its absurd but knife bros eat that stuff up. I understand why they charge that because otherwise there is no money to be made selling it. But what I don't understand is why anyone in their right mind buys it. Hey you wanna pay $70 for literally 50 cents of generic industrial diamond slurry? I gotchu.
its not even about broke or something like that either. I'm a typical idiot myself with 10 grand worth of knives and stones I have little real use for it. It's just absolutely silly and absurd to pay $300 for a stone I can have shipped from Russia for like $100. Even more absurd to pay $70 for less than $1 of generic industrial diamond powder
I just want to advice on one point🙏 Do not lap them with such high grit SiC🙏 I keep the 100/240F on 80#grit SiC and the rest (400/800F and 1200/2000F) at 240#grit SiC.. I used to lap them fine before but i ones watched Jeff Jewel video and i just wanted to try and it helps to slow down the load up and stones cut more efeciently and doesnt affect the scratch patern🙏 I tried also both oleic acid, water and soapy water and there i choose just straight water (the oil does help with loading a lot but the feedback is much worse) Just my experience but we are all different and in the end the best method is the one that works.. Thank you for reviewing these.. This video actually made me to buy them and i love these stone🙏
Dude I love your vids. U dont miss a thing!!! Sooo much info loved every second!
Best video on these stones yet. I haven’t spent enough time with them to comfortably make a full length video like this though. After a few months of use they’re still going through a break in period. They’re just now coming into their own. You covered all the points I’ve wanted to make so there’s no reason for me to make another one lol. I really appreciate you making this because I can now refer people to it when they ask me about them. Fantastic overview man!
Good video. I have 1k, 3k 12k vitrified diamond stones. For conditioning I use 6k El cheapo alumina stone. For sharpening I use window/glass cleaner with water. Don't go faster as your Eyes can follow your fingers, don't slip of the edges, leave the edge on the stone. If you have troubles with consistent angle Holding, make a notch in both your non-dominant thumb and Index finger. I'm right handed so I did this in the left hand
Great video Mike. You described these stones perfectly. I am working hard on my freehand sharpening and these stones have have produced some of my sharpest edges on very hard steels. I need to buy the larger bench stones. They seem like a great investment. Thank you for explaining them so well.
Nice video here buddy. You was very thorough. I may try one of the higher grit plates on day.
I'm the one that just bought a strop off of you. Cant wait to try out the combo you did.
I really like how I can sharpen in a clean environment like you and not make any mess. Water loading is so minimal on these. I'm currently using a cheapo amazon nagura to help remove loading. I haven't flattened yet, scared to mess it up. I'll be trying your tips on flattening soon. Thanks for the tips.
Thanx for all the information!! You always knock it out the park!! I was wanting to see if you sell strops? I would love to buy some strops. If that’s not possible, I apologize. I did send an email. Thanks & keep up the great work & Happy 4th of July!!
I own a Lansky set and want to move to freehand sharpening. What would you recommend for long term use? $500 price range.
Gritomatic is excellent! They really give great customer support 😎👍
Do you have to lap them as soon as you get them? im thinking about getting the 400-800 stone. But, I also want some choseras. I'm kind of on a budget. I have s30v and maxamet steel.
choceras wont do jack for either of those steels. those are vanadium alloyed steels. Choseras are for low alloy and chromium steels. like kitchen knives.
Very helpful! I'm a newbie to freehand sharpening and have the DMT DiaSharps in Fine and Extra Fine. For a higher grit finishing stone which dual-sides Veneve would you recommend? Thanks and great work!
Solid video
Based on how little they wear, and how infrequent you lap them, I assume they are not making a slurry as you sharpen?
@Cliff Stamp They will make a slurry if you’re thinning a wide bevel knife. Which is to be expected. But generally no, narrow bevels don’t produce any slurry.
@@seff2318 I don't quite understand that, because a narrow bevel would in general produce a higher pressure, more likely to fracture the bond in the stone.
Great Video!
So would you say that, for the F400 grit particularly, the old binder (not OCB) is okay? How would the binder affect the resulting edge? How is the feedback comparing the two binders on the F400 stone?
I have found a good deal on the F400 with the "old" (B1/B2) binder - would I rather have the OCB binder or does it not matter that much with this grit
Kind regards :)
I agree that there’s not much of a difference between the binders. They’re still going strong like the day I bought them and can handle every type steel. I think load up might be a little different between binders depending on steel but I don’t notice much difference if any on steel finish. Thanks for the comment!
@@Iheartknives1 great to know - thanks for the fast reply!
So for the F400 grit 20/14 (second coarsest) stone you are basically saying the difference between the legacy binder B1-01 and the new OCB is negligible, in terms of feedback and scratch pattern?
If so, I will pull the trigger and go ahead and buy the "older" venev plate.
I am glad I can talk to someone who has experienced both of the plates and binders respectively
Thanks!!
@@Alex25CoB for the coarser stones yeah I think it’s pretty negligible. With the finer stones I think you can probably make a better distinction with finishes. You really can’t go wrong with any of the venev stones. For the money they’re all great and the feedback on diamond resin is much better than plated diamond
Gritomatic is top notch!
after using this stone for 4 years , is there any curve on surface or something like that ? how often did you reshaping the surface ?
@@cevdetsen7200 I’ve only resurfaced 2 times since I bought all of my bonded stones. I do use a silicon carbide 1x6 inch stone to clean out the steel particles that embed in the stone. I’d say I do that about every 2-3 sharpenings. They stay incredibly flat and have a great lifespan! Absolutely worth the money.
@@Iheartknives1 thank you ! I am interested in venev resin bonded 6 inch stones for angle guided sharpeners. Thats why i asked
@@cevdetsen7200 they’re worth it for sure.
Did you find grit contamination on this stone?
No not any real noticeable contamination.
I have a concern: I am very much confused with the grits of the venev ,could you maybe write a comment with equivalent in Japanese standard ?
www.gritomatic.com/blogs/news/interactive-grit-chart
This is the chart to compare all the different grits in all of the company’s stones. It’ll compare all different ones. Go by the micron level on venev stones not by grit. So if it says 1 micron you know what the equivalent Japanese stone grit is
@@Iheartknives1 Thank's 👍 but I saw a video with 26c3 steel, do you like it a lot ?
@@dimmacommunication I love it. It’s my most used knife in the kitchen along with my Hap40 gyuto. It’s a lot like hitachi white steel
When you say feedback, could you clarify what you mean exactly, as people seem to be using that in very different ways.
Cliff Stamp feedback refers to the sound and the feel that you get from the stone. When you push and pull the edge across the stone it will give you “feedback”. Depending on pressure, angle, etc. you will get different sounds that come from the stone and it will feel different to your hands. Diamond plates will give you very little tactile feedback. Japanese water stones will give you a lot. Resin Bonded Diamond stones give you much more than diamond plates but less than Japanese water stones.
@@Iheartknives1 I am not sure I understand, if I take an x-coarse DMT plate, I can certainly hear the knife on the stone, and as well feel the abrasive cutting into it. If I compare that to say a 8k hard bonded resin stone, there is little to no sound or feeling from that abrasive at all.
@@CliffStamp Yep, that's feedback. You can feel the coarse stone cutting more than the fine stone, so the coarse stone has more feedback. That is simplifying it since finer stones have a more subtle feedback. This is something we all have our preferences on and often feel differently about the same stones.
A little common sense here is needed. You pet your wife differently than you pet your dog. Completely different tactile feedback. Understand?
If you don't, you probably should not been sharpening high quality knives.
KnifeMaker@@CGSW
Whats the difference between dragon series and the Phoenix series? Any help is appreciated thanks
The difference is the binder that is used. Dragon is the top of the line stone that Venev makes. It has a 2mm layer of resin bonded diamond and has a flatter tolerance so you won't need to lap the stone. The Phoenix stone series has a 1mm layer of diamond resin and should be lapped and flattened. (Although you don't really need to). The Phoenix is meant for "hobbyists" and the Dragon is meant for "Pro" Sharpeners who sharpen lots of knives. Phoenix is also half the price of the Dragon series. Hope this helps!
@@Iheartknives1 very helpful thank you!
@@Iheartknives1 Correction, The Dragon is 3mm and the Phoenix is 2mm. I've been using them for several years now for knives with high vanadium content. nothing beats them. I use a simple silicon coarse stone to flatten them, however in many hundreds fo sharpenings they have not dished out.
I also use the Veneve stones for dressing 1911 and 20ll trigger group parts. I use the 80-240 and 400/800 stones which are much finer than what you would think. the 800 for instance is closer to 2800 grit by U.S. standards. It is easier to use the micron size listed on the side of the stone and then reference the chart on the Grit-O Matic site.
I've tried many different types of lubes on the stones. I find the Trend Diamond Stone the best I've ever used as it completely removes any loading in seconds with nothing more than the lube and rubbing it with a finger.
It only takes a tiny amount. ;
I like your vibe
Thanks man!
I thought the phoenix (cheaper) was the 25% and the dragon (more expensive) was the 100%
I think they’re both offered in 100% and I know the dragon is offered in 25%. Im not sure about the Phoenix if it’s offered in 25% concentration. The 25% or 100% has more to do with the finish you are trying to achieve than it does with the cost. The cost is because you get more resin bonding on the dragon (3mm) vs only (2mm) of resin bonding on the Phoenix. The Phoenix is meant for hobby guys and the Dragon is meant for pro sharpeners or guys who sharpen as a business. The Dragon stones will last much longer than the Phoenix stones.
@@Iheartknives1 www.gritomatic.com/pages/venev-celestial-family hmm - according to this, both the full size benchstone series are now 100%
@@leotam3372 yeah looks like centaur is the only one that they offer in 25%. I’m pretty sure they used to make dragon in 25% option when it first came out but maybe I’m wrong.
You can get them even cheaper straight from Ukraine/Russia when the dollar is STRONG.
A bit late but do you know if it's a good idea to lap them with diamond plates? I'm concerned with the diamond plate "dulling" the diamonds on the venevs instead of just exposing them..
Definitely DONT use diamond plates on venev bonded diamond stones. Only use silicon carbide loose grit on a glass plate or a silicon carbide stone to expose the new diamond. Diamond plate will ruin the stone.
@@Iheartknives1 yea that is what I thought. Diamond plates are just so convenient to flatten stones tho. It's quick, not dirty and easy. But I guess with how rarely you have to flatten them it is fine..
@@camorakidd_edc yeah but you have to understand the type of stone it is a diamond plate doesn’t work the same. Diamond plates are for softer stones made from ceramic or silicon carbide materials. Diamond plates work great for flattening shaptons or choseras but bonded diamond stones are completely different. Go to their website to understand more about how to flatten them. I know it may not be convenient but you’ll ruin your stones to the point that you chip the diamonds out and your stones will be ineffective.
@@Iheartknives1 yea I totally get that. I was just saying that diamond plates are just so convenient.. they are definitely my favorite flattening option. I know how the venevs work. You only want to take down the binder to expose more diamonds and for that you have to use something softer like SiC or maybe Aluminium Oxide.
@@camorakidd_edc yeah exactly. They’re awesome stones though. They take a little work to flatten if they need it but with the right grit silicon carbide you’ll have it done in no time and they stay flat for about 10-20 sharpenings depending on the steel and how you sharpen on the stone. It also depends on how flat you want to maintain the stone.