How Writing My Thesis on League of Legends Made Me Stop Playing

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  • Опубліковано 11 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,5 тис.

  • @xPetu
    @xPetu  Місяць тому +1325

    Due to popular demand, here's a Google drive link to my thesis: drive.google.com/file/d/1CkYW0JdMfXXcczFvqjXcfp64D8eMIq1d/view?usp=sharing
    Huge thank you to the 1,000 people who subscribed to Coachless in its early stage. We changed our default subscription period from 90 to 30 days now, making the Item Analysis feature more accessible. Free version is now also implemented: coachless.gg/items

    • @Shadow-bk1im
      @Shadow-bk1im Місяць тому +17

      Just gotta say watching this video and I remember seeing that specifically sorc boots, into mejais soulstealer, into rabadon on vladimir has a 76% winrate. This was the first time I realized this since well 76% winrate is absolutely bonkers and mejais is only ever useful especially as a first item when you are absolutely dumpstering your opponent. Plus if you are playing a late game champ like vlad and are winning that hard in the early game it makes sense there is almost 0 way you can lose besides you having a stroke or all your teammates having one.

    • @LuMnOsITi
      @LuMnOsITi Місяць тому +23

      How about for a video title: "How xPetu's Thesis on League of Legends made me stop watching his videos"

    • @scottmadsen9964
      @scottmadsen9964 Місяць тому +3

      I will be waiting for you GG I hope you can find a good Senna otp to learn from as well I'd love to see how one of my favorite champions is itemized i have been too scared to comeback to league since they made the extra nerfs to her damage.

    • @TheEternalStudent69
      @TheEternalStudent69 Місяць тому +7

      xPetu, you inspired me to dive into the world of math and discover it's wonders. I don't plan on majoring in it but the esoteric and fundamental knowledge I have gained has been partly because of you. When I become a crackpot engineer/scientist, I'll remember you.

    • @iBeo01
      @iBeo01 Місяць тому

      Thank you for your analysis.

  • @christhis9597
    @christhis9597 Місяць тому +8055

    Bro is so invested in shen he is writing his masters thesis and paper on him

    • @justinjakeashton
      @justinjakeashton Місяць тому +316

      Should've written a Challenger thesis instead.

    • @omarfuaad9644
      @omarfuaad9644 Місяць тому +22

      @@justinjakeashton I see what you did there 😂😂😂

    • @VictorAlfonsoTrades
      @VictorAlfonsoTrades Місяць тому +31

      He has 327k subs and almost 200k views in this video soo yeah there is people interested in this info

    • @v-clips702
      @v-clips702 Місяць тому +3

      @@VictorAlfonsoTrades i'am br kkk

    • @mikespidle3360
      @mikespidle3360 Місяць тому +3

      Sounds like it will help everyone on any champ and against any champion

  • @luthon
    @luthon Місяць тому +157

    This is the exact vibe we need for the league community. Congratulations on your thesis and graduation, have fun traveling and the best of luck in your product development journey. I'm sure it will be a success.

  • @nicolasrobertovitordemorae9396
    @nicolasrobertovitordemorae9396 Місяць тому +4145

    This guy made an entire thesis just to to divert our attention from the fact that he is unironically buying protobelt on shen.

    • @Levay92
      @Levay92 Місяць тому +208

      thats what stat tells him

    • @QuantemDeconstructor
      @QuantemDeconstructor Місяць тому +67

      Shen is strong, all items Shen item.

    • @dieminestinkt
      @dieminestinkt Місяць тому +31

      but that protobelt let him catch jinx and close out the game =D

    • @bug5654
      @bug5654 Місяць тому +12

      @@QuantemDeconstructor "It's a hunter item," energy.

    • @Akronox
      @Akronox Місяць тому +15

      I mean he also has Riftmaker so clearly playing some kind of AP build.

  • @Gork862
    @Gork862 25 днів тому +22

    This is the kind of analysis I wish we saw in every game dev team. I know your content is primarily LoL focused, but it would be really cool to see if this can be adapted to other MOBAs and become a sort of standard for analyzing MOBAs as a whole.
    One thing I think would be cool (albeit difficult to implement) is a ML model that takes into account not just the physical vs magical damage, but the specific hero matchups and maybe even team comps as a whole. I imagine that feeding enough of that data into a model would produce some interesting predictions.

  • @spuriusscapula6481
    @spuriusscapula6481 Місяць тому +1569

    The thing I learned from this video is that anytime I'm about to win for certain with shen, I need to recall and buy Rylais so that it has a 100% winrate and thus people start buying it and throwing their games

    • @alex.polychronopoulos4487
      @alex.polychronopoulos4487 Місяць тому +42

      Unless ppl start using his stats!

    • @pyrojkl
      @pyrojkl Місяць тому

      @@alex.polychronopoulos4487 even more of a reason because it makes more people that care about optimization of items promote this channel

    • @siegpasta
      @siegpasta Місяць тому +2

      😂😂😂

    • @martysonn
      @martysonn Місяць тому +48

      Well then it would corrected itself, cause people would be losing with it.

    • @phoenixkohls9091
      @phoenixkohls9091 Місяць тому +14

      That wouldn't affect the results he's looking at because your ΔW most likely wouldn't increase after such an action.

  • @YeshuaLives4YHWH
    @YeshuaLives4YHWH Місяць тому +20

    GL xPetu, hope to hear more about your academic life and work

  • @rhino3801
    @rhino3801 Місяць тому +908

    "I have done the analysis" *shuffles papers*. I love it dude.

    • @unsane604
      @unsane604 23 дні тому +1

      lol i'd noticed the paper shuffling but it didn't really make sense, now i get it. gold

  • @miitza
    @miitza Місяць тому +58

    you explain complex subjects in a way that is easy to grasp for someone that has never studied statistics and probability, like a professor! We love you Petu good luck on your and your teams project!

    • @citizencj3389
      @citizencj3389 Місяць тому +2

      Huh?....The thesis here covers over more advanced statistics topics like Markov chains. It's not a purely easy read but I like where he is going with that research.

  • @pescegerman
    @pescegerman Місяць тому +1282

    rito, just give petu a job

    • @BouncerMcDayGreen
      @BouncerMcDayGreen Місяць тому +48

      Yeah. Phreaks. And consequently, get that animal out of that position.

    • @ttv_zombiefetus1710
      @ttv_zombiefetus1710 Місяць тому +36

      Typical league player calling someone an animal over a game 😭

    • @BouncerMcDayGreen
      @BouncerMcDayGreen Місяць тому +11

      ​@@ttv_zombiefetus1710 Typical... I don't even know what you are, to be fair.
      Do you disagree with what I said? Do you disagree with the use of the word "animal" only?
      What's your point?

    • @yeahyeah9
      @yeahyeah9 Місяць тому +20

      @@ttv_zombiefetus1710 i mean hes not wrong

    • @GalickGun
      @GalickGun Місяць тому +47

      They won't. xPetu just proved he is an intelligent human being. Riot has no place for such people.

  • @panagiotislepelis8177
    @panagiotislepelis8177 Місяць тому +8

    This is made even more clear in data analytics of a game like TFT where the Delta shows the placement change for a specific item on a specific unit. There you can clearly see exactly how much on average your item decision on each unit will affect the result of your placement.

  • @guilhermemalavolta4491
    @guilhermemalavolta4491 Місяць тому +2349

    Bro, as an engineer, it's umbeliveble nice to hear you bringing biases and data to the conversation! YOU FKING ROCKS, SHEN GOD!

    • @The_Lightless
      @The_Lightless Місяць тому +31

      Every professional speaks about biases. Otherwise they aren’t a professional.

    • @asd-ww4nk
      @asd-ww4nk Місяць тому +15

      crazy if multimillion dollar company riot games hasnt done the same calculations

    • @MajkaSrajka
      @MajkaSrajka Місяць тому +6

      @@asd-ww4nk None of the games optimizes for balance. All games optimize for fun.

    • @SkillZzl
      @SkillZzl Місяць тому +4

      @@MajkaSrajka maybe indie but big companies optimize for balance (they still fail)

    • @hayden7504
      @hayden7504 Місяць тому +12

      Hearing "as an engineer" is the quickest way to discredit yourself tbh.

  • @Mooki_14
    @Mooki_14 Місяць тому +12

    GL on your journey my brother! Wish you the best, you deserve it! :)

  • @MasterAaron
    @MasterAaron Місяць тому +1510

    Haven't watched you in years, but I always saw you as a big brained indiviudal. You got me to Diamond in about two months. Thanks man, I also quit this game a long time ago. Love

    • @balakethedog
      @balakethedog Місяць тому +95

      @@helluvajester is that even a question

    • @oloyolopl
      @oloyolopl Місяць тому +42

      @@helluvajester Why wouldn't you quit

    • @99allthetime
      @99allthetime Місяць тому +5

      Best advice out here rn
      I wanna see Xpetu have fun playing Space Marine2

    • @efegokselkisioglu8218
      @efegokselkisioglu8218 Місяць тому +33

      ​@@helluvajester the game takes up too much time, toxic player base, stupid chat restrictions, champions can't be balanced for all levels of play, items and champions change, so the game loses a part of it that maked you want to play, the game overall reduces your mental state if you care the least about it. I quit due to these. I made it to Challenger in the turkish server, probably corralates to masters low grandmasters in eu, playing nidalee top with grasp. They removed the item that made it viable, divine sunderer

    • @AAA-by6gg
      @AAA-by6gg Місяць тому

      @@efegokselkisioglu8218 You should watch Lourlo play ad nidalee top, he makes it look super fun and pretty strong

  • @Yotalogy
    @Yotalogy Місяць тому +2

    Hey Petu, I was an assistant coach for a MOBA esports team back in 2021 mostly dealing with data analysis. Although I did not come from a statistics background, I enjoy watching this video. Thanks and good luck on the project!

  • @31iseo
    @31iseo Місяць тому +833

    I am proud of you Petu, I hope you succeed in this endeavours of yours

  • @nathanlecam941
    @nathanlecam941 Місяць тому +435

    I stopped playing but i still enjoy your videos. Because you don't only put your heart and passion in them, but also your intelligence and you make it understandable for anyone.
    Thank you and good luck on your research!

    • @Kakerate2
      @Kakerate2 Місяць тому +4

      same! came for league, stayed for the personality

  • @notpavone2892
    @notpavone2892 Місяць тому +2

    xpetu you are an inspirational figure for me, firstly I learned how to play through your videos and I also learned about a new application to something I love, next week I will start my college classes in a statistics major and I can proudly say that I found someone to look up to
    Good luck with your project, we will miss you until your next video

  • @GlacialScion
    @GlacialScion Місяць тому +1258

    Riot has always seemed to have an issue with data analysis where they know enough to collect and aggregate an enormous amount of data, but not enough to avoid all of the huge pitfalls inherent to statistical analysis.
    Every so often, Phreak accidentally makes this obvious in his videos. Most recently, at least to my knowledge, when he defended the ping changes by saying that survey responses showed a reduction in reports of negative communication interactions. The first comment under that video was pointing out that if those were the metrics Riot was using, their best course of action would be to remove all ability to communicate, thus bringing the credible reports of negative communication to zero.
    Statistics is an extremely difficult and counterintuitive field. Being smart and able to run the numbers isn't all that's required to make good use of it, but it doesn't come across as if the people at Riot appreciate that fact.

    • @elia0162
      @elia0162 Місяць тому +130

      like statistic teachers say:"raw data is garbagge data"

    • @brotendo
      @brotendo Місяць тому +15

      No lol. That first comment under the video is what's called slippery slope fallacy lmao. All these armchair data scientists in the comments are hilarious.

    • @GlacialScion
      @GlacialScion Місяць тому +116

      @@brotendo That's not what a slippery slope argument is.

    • @trtvitor1385
      @trtvitor1385 Місяць тому +84

      @@brotendo thats not a slippery slope argument at all lol. Youve had a shocker.

    • @broidkanymore-zc4lt
      @broidkanymore-zc4lt Місяць тому +31

      umm no the best course of action would be to delete the game because therere still some ways to communicate disrespect to others without pings and chat

  • @primeeraser2564
    @primeeraser2564 Місяць тому +2

    Bro I love numbers and maths as a whole, this like genuinely fascinated me. Its actually so crazy how these statics are quite misleading so I would definitely love to see if you developed something for league that eliminates the selection bias

  • @Alliancewolf
    @Alliancewolf Місяць тому +12

    If the available data includes timestamps on when the item was purchased during a game, it would be interesting to see how that items win rate changes depending on when it was bought as a first item. Then you could also compare that same item to how the win chance changes if you managed to get your first item before your role opponent did.
    Then you could go on and see the same things for the second items win chance changes.
    Furthermore you could analyze more in depth how the item win chance is affected by melee physical, ranged physical, melee magic and ranged magic matchups. (Watched the whole video, but unsure if it was only for physical and magic or if it also included melee and ranged)

  • @gamingfunnel
    @gamingfunnel Місяць тому +108

    As much as your videos make me so happy, we all have goals that we strive for and need to achieve. I wish you the best of luck, and hope that in your travels, there is a chance I get to meet you. Thank you, and I can not wait to wait for more tech in December.

  • @mikolajdrozdowski7174
    @mikolajdrozdowski7174 5 днів тому

    I love how you took a something that you love and applied your expertise to it, to then share your finding with others. This is a beautiful representation of human ingenuity and our ability to meaningfully connect subjects that would perhaps at first sight seem distant.
    Love what you do. Keep it up bro ❤ .

  • @alexeizaraiov
    @alexeizaraiov Місяць тому +30

    WIshing all the success for Coachless and all your endeavors Shensei. You are one of a kind.

  • @MistralFlacon
    @MistralFlacon Місяць тому +1

    Petu you're my favourite leauge streamer. Seeing your in-depth technical analysis of the game and always using it to feed your gamplay (and to teach others) was always a pleasure. Above all your excitement around it all is refreshing. Hope coachless suceeds to become what you aim to, all the best!

  • @ArchonofAethyrius
    @ArchonofAethyrius Місяць тому +79

    I never thought I'd be interested on a thesis on League of Legends, but I know what I'm gonna be reading for the next few days.

  • @bugsbaddy7303
    @bugsbaddy7303 Місяць тому

    Favourite league creator full stop. Been missing your more regular uploads, but I love hearing a dope person succeed in life way more so it's plenty offset and makes me happy to hear brother. Keep being real and we'll still be around when you're back

  • @anthonysmith1228
    @anthonysmith1228 Місяць тому +14

    Same to you Petu! Its so hype to see you follow through on this project!

  • @fahimzahir2085
    @fahimzahir2085 Місяць тому +3

    I'm going to need a full causality analysis on whether the treatment (T = playing Shen) led to your Master's degree, or if the Master's was a confounder making you pick Shen. Please have the paper on my desk by Monday!
    Great video btw haha

  • @HienLeGia
    @HienLeGia Місяць тому +256

    Happy that your can achieve more form League than most, especially from studying Mathematical Algorithms and applied Statistics
    Edit: Happy Holiday whenever you decide to upload, and always remember- you can always learn, after you finished your formal studies

  • @chancelafranceism
    @chancelafranceism Місяць тому +1

    Have a fun and safe trip! Totally understandable and thank you!

  • @MrRevillo
    @MrRevillo Місяць тому +153

    I love how when you start looking at data and statistics how easy it is that you remove yourself so much from the original domain, that you forget to look at what the objects really do in the domain.

    • @manphan6689
      @manphan6689 Місяць тому +11

      what are you talking about

    • @BreatheManually
      @BreatheManually Місяць тому

      @@manphan6689domain knowledge is very important in data intepretation

    • @stinker6784
      @stinker6784 Місяць тому

      ​@@manphan6689you look at game numbers too long you forget original game

    • @Kepitano
      @Kepitano Місяць тому +2

      What the heck? You ought to rewrite that bro

    • @MrRevillo
      @MrRevillo Місяць тому +2

      @@Kepitano Yea I was too tired when writing this😂.
      Basically I wanted to say that, no matter the field, if you start analysing the statistics of a process, you should always go back and revise what those Steps exactly do in the context of the chain to be able to make informed analytical decisions. It can always happen that certain parts of a process-chain look more impactful than they really are, but they only ARE that impactful because of parts of the process which you did not consider in your firsthand analysis.
      Ps:
      - You can swap out process-chain with objects or whatever.
      - Damn it's hard to formulate stuff in a generalised way without it getting out of hand quickly 😂

  • @freshmikeyy
    @freshmikeyy Місяць тому

    congratulations on your thesis! this is a beautiful topics, well written, and i’m excited to see the final product!

  • @brycecollier4263
    @brycecollier4263 Місяць тому +60

    I stopped playing League probably 2 years ago, but I still enjoy watching your content and you almost make me want to get back into the game. Keep up the great work man! I hope your endeavors are successful!

    • @dry-cleaning6255
      @dry-cleaning6255 Місяць тому +3

      I stopped playing League since the day I was born, but I still enjoy watching this content, yet I still don't want to get into the game.

    • @wladynoszhighlights5989
      @wladynoszhighlights5989 Місяць тому

      Good decision! ​@@dry-cleaning6255

  • @leemfdagger376
    @leemfdagger376 Місяць тому

    Congratulations on your graduation! So excited to see you, your colleagues, and coachless succeed! We’ll all be waiting for you in a few months!

  • @marcoortiz8170
    @marcoortiz8170 Місяць тому +118

    Already miss you, Petu. But also wish you the best in making coachless as great as you can!
    Shending you good vibes!

  • @edwardsalo3481
    @edwardsalo3481 Місяць тому

    It was very entertaining to see, thank you! I hope you find lots of support for Coachless, and bring a qualitative change to understanding of itemization and item balance in league (and maybe all other mobas).
    Makes me wonder, how wide could the application range extend.

  • @WhydYouChangeMyHandle
    @WhydYouChangeMyHandle 20 днів тому

    Thank you for mentioning that Kim et al. reference! This has given me inspiration for a term project needed for a class I am taking this semester about Neural Networks :)

  • @vigomatuka3055
    @vigomatuka3055 Місяць тому +19

    You are the most positive and interesting LoL youtuber I have ever watched. I love your analytics, comments and thoughts about the game, they are all very useful and interesting to listen to. I find both videos like this and your normal videos very enjoyable. Thank you for the years of entertainment, I hope you have a pleasant journey and am looking forward to your next video when you come back!

  • @schaedli177
    @schaedli177 Місяць тому

    as someone who will be graduating next week, hearing ya plans of what you'll be doing is quite inspiring. even if i am not a big data-person myself
    it is a pleasure sensei and until the holidays come, and as someone whose favorite season is the spooky season, i will wish you a nice fall as well

  • @gorilla-lol
    @gorilla-lol Місяць тому +39

    Great video as per usual, petu. You might be the first person to come up with this insight of an item's average influence on win rate which I think is fantastic. I have a few ideas for you to consider if you haven't already. Firstly, the idea of 'lose less' items on top of 'win more' ones as well, so one that works well when behind. Essentially this idea can be extended to all levels of prior win rates, so items that work well when even, etc. when you take this into account, then essentially the win difference should really be localised to small bins of prior win rates. (This doesn't even begin to consider the prior win rate mechanism - how to estimate this especially when champions have different win graphs over time i.e. scaling vs early game comps)
    extending this further, items are really dependent on matchups (you highlighted the difference between matchups against MR and armour), although how fed the enemy team magic vs attack dmg carries are also influences which item is optimal. also rest of team should influence it (e.g. for a top laner, jg dmg is especially important, mid to a lesser degree, and bot/supp to even less).
    team comps also matter, e.g. liandries might have a disproportionately high win rate against tanks, meaning that regardless of whether another item is better when ahead or behind (e.g. mejais if ahead or zhonyas/banshees if behind), liandries is still optimal against more than 3 tanks on enemy team. this idea extends to basically all items against more uniform teams (e.g. frozen heart against auto attackers, zhonyas into assassins, thornmails into healers, serpents into shielders, bork, etc). In fact there might be some self selection already in champ select, e.g. rammus picked more into AAs, gwen picked into tanks, etc, that kind of skew builds from the get go.
    Items are super complicated, and essentially when broken down into matchups is almost impossible to model. Perhaps when you ignore that and a few other aspects (e.g. different itemisations of scaling vs win now comps, teamfight vs split comps, and stuff mentioned earlier), then perhaps you can end up with some manageable PDEs. Perhaps this taps into the most important part, which is the fact that a human can analyse all these different aspects, to purchase good items so frequently and so quickly, shows the amazingness of our gamer brains.
    good job on your grad, enjoy your holiday, and best of luck on the chapters ahead.

    • @xPetu
      @xPetu  Місяць тому +23

      yep all matchups related / context-specific stuff is still coming, working on it tirelessly!

    • @evanfrench3040
      @evanfrench3040 Місяць тому +4

      @@xPetu Hahaha I made an almost identical comment to this one before scrolling down and seeing it, love to see someone else thought the same thing and also thought about it. Does make me wonder, if you took all of this analysis we do and tried to make a high level bot out of it, what level it could get to. If you got a product you were happy with, it would be fascinating if you could get special permission from Riot to let it loose in soloqueue and see where it ends up

    • @Nasduken
      @Nasduken Місяць тому

      I agree with everything you said! You have so many thing to factor in if you want to make a reliable argument it almost seems impossible. I think the endgame of these analyses will be to just hand all the recordings from the latest patch to an AI, and just start giving it questions. Skipping all of the "1 question leads to 3 questions, leads to 9 questions" problem. And the AI just takes EVERYTHING into consideration and says "buy item x, y, z ... "

  • @leocastillo6889
    @leocastillo6889 Місяць тому

    Petu legit my goat, glad to hear you're doing fine and managing to follow things you're passionate about.

  • @chrischeng5123
    @chrischeng5123 Місяць тому +49

    Yoo i also did my Masters Thesis on League of Legends too! That's so wild that 4 months after my graduation I see this video lol

    • @enygma7725
      @enygma7725 Місяць тому +1

      I have a friend doing it now too XD

    • @rubenoliveira5305
      @rubenoliveira5305 Місяць тому

      whats the title/theme?

    • @enygma7725
      @enygma7725 Місяць тому

      They're developing a program that uses computer vision to detect League of Legends twitch streams' highlights

    • @samuel9294
      @samuel9294 Місяць тому

      name and title please i want to read some of it

  • @mathysrituper5424
    @mathysrituper5424 Місяць тому +1

    Really impressive content. Thank you for being one of the only content creators to actually elevate our level of knowledge on the game.

  • @ccivinski
    @ccivinski Місяць тому +11

    Hoping you have success on your endeavor!
    A bit sad there will be no more videos for a while, but you gotta do what you gotta do

  • @marcosfranco1815
    @marcosfranco1815 25 днів тому

    I've pretty much recently discovered your content and, aside from that accent that feels so satisfactory to hear, your commentary and demeanor gives me the "this is an individual I can learn from" plus is entertaining to watch.
    You've become another star in my night sky of fav content creators, but in the unique category of "The Bob Ross of league but he also has some cool teacher vibes".
    I wish you the very best!

  • @helleye311
    @helleye311 Місяць тому +17

    Congratulations on the graduation!
    The tech is great! super interesting data. If I was actually playing league, I'd definitely be paying for coachless just to go into the numbers.
    I guess we finally have the mathematically correct build.

  • @Gethog
    @Gethog Місяць тому

    This is an incredibly satisfying video. Thank you, truly. I'm a huge numbers nerd and love to OBSORV and learn. Bring Baus into the fold for data analysis! his knowledge is underrated, especially of matchups and item purchase order IMO.

  • @solarkness5077
    @solarkness5077 Місяць тому +62

    That is actually such a cool field
    Though even with the win probability added, I feel like selection bias still plays a part, since you're more likely to buy defensive items when it's *likely* that your win probability is going to drop (thus meaning the average win probability will be lower than an item you buy when it's likely it'll rise anyways). Since the win probability depends on your team and the state of the enemy team as well, there would be an expected change in win probability regardless of specific item choices (mostly leaning towards the team that's winning slowly winning more and more).
    But then, comparing items specifically in games with similar starting win probabilities would inform whether an item might actually be the better choice when behind or not, and you mentioned selecting for specific conditions which could fix that issue.

    • @josecarlosarenasmonroy5289
      @josecarlosarenasmonroy5289 Місяць тому +2

      Stop overthinking it, buy item accoirding to your GAMEPLAY STYLE and what your team needs to WIN.
      Everything else is sperging into nothingness.

    • @justarandompally
      @justarandompally Місяць тому +4

      What you're basically doing now is referring to the second order terms of the Taylor expansion of whatever function governs the win rate, by looking at the (expected/perceived) rate of increase/decrease of the winrate.
      Basically (this is speaking from a physicist's method of analysis not a statistician's) by analysing higher and higher orders you approximate the real (currently unknown) function.

    • @jonathanrussell6525
      @jonathanrussell6525 Місяць тому

      Kind of like how the build sites show Mejai’s as having a really high win rate on mages so you should always buy Mejai’s, right?

  • @Jeod
    @Jeod Місяць тому

    Congratulations dude, I'm not a regular viewer but hearing about your progress and success made me smile.

  • @Foatizenknechtl
    @Foatizenknechtl Місяць тому +5

    nah mate take ur time to enjoy the world. you will never be this healthy and agile. go on, take ur time. im just happy youre making progress :) ive been watching for like 5 years or more

  • @tonytran5022
    @tonytran5022 Місяць тому +5

    This is such a good analysis! Amazing work on your thesis and the video.

  • @jaredsears555
    @jaredsears555 Місяць тому +12

    THANK YOU for making this video! Ever since taking taking a statistics course in college I've felt like a bunch of available game statistics are skewed and misinterpreted. I can't tell you how many times I've been in games where someone build's sub-optimally for the situation simply because the build "has the highest winrate". I hope more people notice this and adopt a modular build mindset.

    • @Kepitano
      @Kepitano Місяць тому

      These things (item winrate data, op-gg, tier lists) only help people in lower ranks, like lower than Diamond.
      Blindly following guides or popular builds is oftentimes a common practice in low elo, and it is what's making people lose and not improve at League. All you need to do is understand matchups and the basic needs of your champion. For Example Zhonya's is great against Fizz despite it granting 50 armor; on the other hand, Banshee's isn't optimal vs Cassiopeia despite it granting 50 magic resist. You'd use Zhonya's active against Fizz's ult, and the spellshield passive is useless because Cassiopeia could easily pop & ignore it due to her short cooldowns. I'm hoping those people I speak about would be more aware of such observations, but in the end, they are low rank for good reason :)

  • @claudiomadrid415
    @claudiomadrid415 Місяць тому

    Dude, amazing, congrats on this study and i hope u get where u want to be!! I've been following u since a few years now, love ur content

  • @Dato_CH
    @Dato_CH Місяць тому +29

    5:20 saddam hussein hiding in xpetu's masters paper

    • @AMKpolka5
      @AMKpolka5 Місяць тому

      XD

    • @lolon7550
      @lolon7550 Місяць тому

      I was about to comment that, pattern recognition is truly incredible

  • @user-dddatas
    @user-dddatas Місяць тому +5

    We will miss you master, but I hope you enjoy your trip. We love you, take care!

  • @Laent64
    @Laent64 Місяць тому +1

    Congrats about your finished student life. I love hearing you simplify complex concept within a game. Then I can apply them elsewhere less fun, but more useful =) Thanks!!!!

  • @muertem7875
    @muertem7875 Місяць тому +8

    Good luck on your project xPetu

  • @thomasingman4917
    @thomasingman4917 Місяць тому +1

    Absolute banger video, thank you for this!

  • @pedroeubg
    @pedroeubg Місяць тому +5

    Hey man have a incredible successful journey

  • @michamaroszek6527
    @michamaroszek6527 Місяць тому

    I watched you almost since day 1. Got really into Shen and hit 500k on him. Then i stopped playing league and so i havent watched you ever since. This video have brought me ton of nostalgia just by hearing your voice talking about statistics and more of the things i dont understand XD. I thank you for all your videos. Hours of content i could enjoy. I hope everything works out well for you in life. Much love bro

  • @dantesk1836
    @dantesk1836 Місяць тому +4

    Was waiting for this to come out! Congratulations on finishing the Master's and good luck in your endeavors. I will definitely look at your thesis and try to understand XD, the linear models course I am taking rn should help.

  • @MrAirigoniel
    @MrAirigoniel Місяць тому

    This was extremely interesting, and I will definitely take a look at coachless! I'm a maths teacher and theorycrafting nerd myself, so this was a holy grail of nerdgasm. Thank you for your effort and for the link; will definitely read (the parts not above my head of) your thesis! All the best this fall

  • @carmelhood8982
    @carmelhood8982 Місяць тому +44

    I could watch these videos for hours!

  • @tyson6260
    @tyson6260 Місяць тому

    This is the best video you’ve made that I’ve seen. Specific, digestible, useful information.

  • @ethanl9845
    @ethanl9845 Місяць тому +6

    Don’t know who you are but this is quality content. I’d like to see an addition specifically of items for when a player is behind, or has a below 50% win chance, further refined by whether they were against ad or ap. It would be nice to know the best item to stabilize when you’re losing, not just which one to push your advantage when you’re winning

  • @nikorasunx7773
    @nikorasunx7773 Місяць тому

    Man, i realy love your vídeos, not only because you are the GOD SHEN that i know, but mainly because you explain things soo well that anyone can easily understand... You deserve the world, and we are Lucky to have you

  • @LAK253
    @LAK253 Місяць тому +133

    Spoiler Blocker!!!

  • @cepilluco
    @cepilluco Місяць тому

    i admire you a lot man, im struggling with college right now (im studying economics) but seeing you playing the game and finishing your degree makes me soo happy and gives me motivation. i hope everything goes perfect in your future, i always love your shen gameplay and your analysis.

  • @theslashbro4474
    @theslashbro4474 Місяць тому +3

    I'm so impressed by the work you've done on Coachless. You are truly an enigma amongst the plethora of LOL content creators on this platform. Keep it up!!!
    You've gotten me interested in LOL Statistics, and perhaps statistics as a whole!

  • @shentastico7525
    @shentastico7525 Місяць тому

    xPetu I'm so happy for u man, crazy how time flies.I started paying a lot of Shen when I was in the secondary, and now I'm too doing a engineering career, I hope to be has intelligent like u ingenier xPetu.
    Greatings and congratulations from Argentina!

  • @olaskaar4140
    @olaskaar4140 Місяць тому +11

    Have you seen Shending help is smurfing on the EUW ladder recently? Either shen is in a great spot this season or Shending is a monster on your champion (he is monstergood either way xD)

    • @xPetu
      @xPetu  Місяць тому +16

      yeah Shending is cracked (+ Shen buffed for no reason when he's already strong XD)

    • @The_Lightless
      @The_Lightless Місяць тому +2

      @@xPetuRiot was really stupid this last patch. They buffed champions that were already good/strong and pushed them into OP just because they want to see them at worlds. Jarvan Jax etc, absolutely no need for buffs lol.

  • @musiclover44551
    @musiclover44551 Місяць тому

    Congrats on graduating! It's been wild watching you evolve over the years, I hope you have an amazing time traveling.

  • @HusumLOL
    @HusumLOL Місяць тому +4

    Watched this while making dinner and honestly insanely interesting points brought up. Had my attention all video. Very excited to see the future of coachless. Good luck with everything Petu!

    • @xPetu
      @xPetu  Місяць тому +1

      Thank mr Swain

  • @Hencionek
    @Hencionek Місяць тому

    It's been such a long time since I've seen such an interesting video about LoL.
    Used to main shen more than 5 years ago, havent touch the game since then. Always nice to see something so impressive and more importantly from a fellow Shen main.

  • @huanson8712
    @huanson8712 Місяць тому +16

    That statics is awesome and for sure opens a lot of possibilities for better analysis. But isn't there a flaw in saying a high deltaW implies that the Item is better in most situations:
    A high deltaW could also imply that the winrate of having the components of the item is bad. Meaning the build path of the item is so bad that it artificially increases the deltaW.
    In context that on shen the defensive items have a worse deltaW, could also mean that the components of tank items are generally stronger than the components of offensive items. Which in my intuition would actually make a lot of sense since many tank items are mostly bought for their stats not for their abilities, but bruiser items are often bought because their abilities greatly synergies with the specific champion.
    Of course more analysis would be needed in order to check that thesis. But I still think that it would probably make more sense to make
    deltaW = W1-W2 where
    W1 = Winrate of selling the item
    W2 = estimated Winrate after buing the legendary item before the one you currently purchased
    At last I have to say that I didn't check if you already did that. If that's the case sorry.

    • @satibel
      @satibel Місяць тому +1

      You could probably also add the dW for the components (when they are used to make that item.)
      Though if you have a negative dW I don't think it matters, because that means the components are stronger, but you're building toward an item that is worse, so you might as well buy more of the base items.
      But yeah as soon as it's positive, you might get bias where like some previous item is just as good as the finished item, so you get a dW of 0, but it's also better than another legendary.

  • @_beryl
    @_beryl Місяць тому

    The second I opened the video I knew youre finnish [after watching Jampii (finnish valo pro) for so many hours its noticeable lol]. Love the way you talk, basically no stutters and (from what I've heard no cuts, if you did some mid-sentence, you hid it pretty damn well).
    Great video - with the examples of the added win probability I understood something, that seems so obvious, so logical, and yet its so "hidden". And its not only for that game, you could the same (or at least close) thing with many other games, it's just so interesting how that works. You think about it, you keep thinking about it and then you're like "hey, what the fuck really? alright". I really hope that in the future ill be able to have the grasp to fully understand how all of it, exactly, really is. Again, great informative vid.

  • @qv33nr0cks1
    @qv33nr0cks1 Місяць тому +4

    Just wanted to say that everything in the video is very well done, but you are fundamentally misrepresenting "selection bias". Selection bias does not occur because a human has made a selection, unless you are modelling items based on sampling from a pool of items. Your study would suffer from selection bias if you were only looking at a group of pro players and generalizing to the whole pool of league players. Selection bias occurs when the choosing of the DATA is biased, not the randomness of the data.
    Rather, the selection you are referring to IS your data, and what you are trying to do is to infer whether or not this choice of the player to purchase item X affect the win rate, the probability of winning, given that X was purchased. What you should be talking about is survivorship bias in relation to certain items with high win rate, as items that are NOT purchased when behind are obviously inflated in winrate because they are ONLY or MOSTLY purchased when ahead. Selection bias has not been introduced to your study because players make a choice, rather your data is non-random, and your inferences must take into account this fact.

  • @Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj000
    @Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj000 Місяць тому

    Good luck with your endeavours Petu! And have safe travels.

  • @HeraklitNorborakk
    @HeraklitNorborakk Місяць тому +10

    But how do you get the win probability for the match at the time the item is purchased? I mean you can't take 100 matches that have the exact same state of the match when the item is purchased and then see how many of them ended up in a victory/defeat... Because there will be not one single match that is exactly the same as the other at the time the first item is purchased. Even when you say let not take the "exact same state" but just "very roughly the same state", there are way too many factors that are relevant (tall 10 champs in the match, objectives done, items of all champs, platings, turrets, gold , positioning on the map of all players etc...). So either you get no examples to compare to get a win rate. Or your samples are way to different from each other and therefore not comparable.
    So there must be another way how you got this win probability. Id really love to know how since i like this topic and your work!

    • @Slavkod
      @Slavkod Місяць тому

      yeah, i was kind of confused by this part too...

    • @TheAntosuma
      @TheAntosuma Місяць тому +1

      I skimmed the thesis, and the thesis does indeed admit that the variance of win probability is sketchy to analyse cause of the chaotic nature of league matches, but its aided by three factors. The first is the use of statistical average over a large data set, we're talking dozens of thousands of games with a similar enough game state. As such the odd game in which human error or a statistical improbability occurs does not significantly alter the average winrate variance. The second is the bias of league players in their item selection. Because items are chosen based on game state, the conclusions you can take from looking at item winrate variance is reliable. For instance, Shen players tend to buy hearsteel in winning lanes, and winrate increase shows this to be a good item choice. On the other hand, hollow radiance is bought into AP matchups, but the fact winrate decreases shows that its the wrong item to buy in this gamestate. The third is that the thesis uses initial and post-purchase winrate probability to determine winrate variance, so factors that occur after the first item is purchased are irrelevant.
      Sure, the actual variance is dependent on the gamestate of your particular game, so the average isnt practically reliable. If you buy heartsteel as shen into vayne as your team is down five kills, for instance, you are probably not increasing your winrate probability. But the fact that you are buying an item inappropriate for your gamestate makes you a statistical minority.

    • @xPetu
      @xPetu  Місяць тому

      DNN trained on millions of games, described in my thesis.

  • @infinitegaming2884
    @infinitegaming2884 22 дні тому

    I started playing Shen this split 3. Thank you for your guides Petu. See you on December.

  • @endrost4
    @endrost4 Місяць тому +7

    This man probably revolutionized the computing of items worthness in League of Legends. I am 100% sure that even big competitive teams didn't actually do these calculations, this means that with enough players testing different builds we should have the OPTIMAL item for each champions for a said patch. Having this information has no price today when you think of the amounts of money involved. If just one team could a systematicaly have the better builds that would probably increase their winrate. Congrats man you probably started a new era for the competitive League of Legends community

    • @NewMetaTV
      @NewMetaTV Місяць тому +3

      These calculations still are not really reliable as a guideline i think (afaik my statistic knowledge is pretty rusty tho) because the Data inherently is flawed/biased.

  • @HargonTV
    @HargonTV Місяць тому

    Just found this by the algorithm. I don't even play league anymore but I love your style and you seem like a great guy. Very interesting stuff! Makes me want to see this in other games too like TFT !

  • @encyrpticcodes8035
    @encyrpticcodes8035 Місяць тому +29

    0:42 what is that unholy ignite range???

  • @brunoggdev6305
    @brunoggdev6305 Місяць тому

    This is actually so interesting data! Great job man, hope your project is a big success!

  • @zozihn8047
    @zozihn8047 Місяць тому +13

    I quit league out of necessity; I can't game that long without a controller anymore due to fatigue and pain.
    I still am subscribed and like to watch your channel. Your approach to things and the way you articulate your thoughts is really pleasant to listen to.
    Good luck with your future endeavors.

    • @InuKagKiky
      @InuKagKiky Місяць тому +1

      sorry for the dumb question but is it even possible to play with a controller? that sounds impossible, to me - I suppose you're heavily used to the controller hence why you find it easier? I'm confused, really. I can't imagine playing this game with a controller :(

    • @dzmanhooo8602
      @dzmanhooo8602 Місяць тому +1

      ​​@@InuKagKikyprobs just wrist issues like carpal tunnel or arthritis making it painfull to use a keyboard/mouse

    • @piroshiki-san
      @piroshiki-san Місяць тому +4

      @@InuKagKiky They don't play league with a controller, that's exactly why they quit it out of necessity

    • @InuKagKiky
      @InuKagKiky Місяць тому

      @@piroshiki-san oh my, thanks for that, makes sense now

    • @carinajuliet3148
      @carinajuliet3148 Місяць тому +2

      @@InuKagKikyI play with a steam deck, I’m not great by any means but I got 54% wr on jinx and I’ve gotten to mastery 40 in the past year.
      I can’t imagine playing with a joystick but with the trackpad I heavily prefer it over a mouse and kb.
      I enjoy being able to just lay in bed watching Tv while I play league.

  • @oliku928
    @oliku928 Місяць тому

    Hello xPetu, I hope you’ll see this comment. Some time ago, I’ve watched one of your videos, when u talked about how u combined being straight A student with playing LoL on top level. You suggested Newport’s book, Deep Work, that was the place where I started being inspired by your video. I changed a lot of my habbits, changed game/learning time ratio drastically and ovr I started, got a very nice job.
    Lately I’ve been thinking how fast I’ve change my life to better, and then I realized…. everything started with your video, the fact that I’ve wanted be the same as you. Thank you men

    • @xPetu
      @xPetu  Місяць тому

      This makes me very happy. Keep going!

  • @Bob-ud5rd
    @Bob-ud5rd Місяць тому +5

    hello petu

  • @tharikmaluf6665
    @tharikmaluf6665 Місяць тому

    Man, I love you! U are an awesome person, and I'm sure that you will succeed in whatever project you are doing! praying for u ma man

  • @BlacksterVFX
    @BlacksterVFX Місяць тому +1

    The question we are trying to answer is what item gives us the biggest Delta W at the current point in the game. You would now think that therefore you should choose the item with the (on average) biggest Delta W value. But I don’t think that this is necessarily the case. I think it makes sense to calculate for example 3 different Delta W values, one for situations where you are about even, one for when you are ahead/ behind.
    I‘m not claiming to be the first to think of this, but I felt the need to write this as I did not see it brought up in the video.

  • @JayCJr_
    @JayCJr_ Місяць тому

    You are awesome, love these types of analyses and it's conclusions. Congrats and wish you luck!

  • @BasedJoeBlack
    @BasedJoeBlack Місяць тому

    Fantastic video! As someone interested in machine learning and statistics I had been thinking why this type of actually useful data was not available since the game is so popular.

  • @Merken.Sideral
    @Merken.Sideral Місяць тому

    Good luck with everything xPetu! We'll be waiting for you :D!

  • @JoschNo1
    @JoschNo1 Місяць тому

    I wish you the very best!
    Congrats to your completed studies, and have a nice andventure around the world! ❤✌️

  • @maxieumbra3101
    @maxieumbra3101 Місяць тому

    i’ll be looking forward to seeing you return my king, good luck 👍

  • @krisdevos3231
    @krisdevos3231 Місяць тому

    Haven't played in a year but bringing theories like this into a league video is still incredibly interesting - Far more relative

  • @spressi
    @spressi Місяць тому

    Great explanation! I'd like to include another perspective on what you have convincingly argued: When analyzing observational data, one must not confuse correlation with causation.
    An association between item and win rate does not necessarily mean that the item *causes* the (change in) win rate. It could also be the other way round: a higher current win chance leading to a particular item choice. Or even a third variable causing both: Higher player skill leading to both a decision for a highly skill-dependent item and a greater win chance (although this argument is more convincing for the character selection: High player skill leading to the selection of a difficult character with more skill shots and a higher win rate).

  • @王勝緣
    @王勝緣 Місяць тому +1

    I think it is interesting to consider the probability of what item you will sell in order to buy another item when you reach your full build. It basically shows the player's understanding of the situation and what item they believe would be superior, and it also "implies" the win probability of each item in a sense. Of course, it is really hard to define the certain win rate of an item, as the game changes all the time (you cannot really decide the champions your are playing against or the champions your teammates have chosen).

  • @extrapylon
    @extrapylon Місяць тому

    Always enjoyed your content. Best of luck with your academic endeavors and with coachless o7

  • @toxicmedstudent9483
    @toxicmedstudent9483 Місяць тому

    You got me into playing shen. I’ll be waiting your glorious return master petu. I hope everything works out.