There is a ton of misinformation out there about this. As a 14700KF owner. When I had purchased my motherboard. The partners were setting the PL1, and PL2's way past intel stock. For example my MSI Z690 MEG ACE, Was running at 4096W. Pushing my CPU way past intel stock. I saw this from the get-go. This issue is partly intels fault for allowing their CPU's to push way past certain voltages and wattages, and motherboard manufacturers were to blame by putting custom PL1, and PL2 power draws. that completely increased the failure rate.
I set mine to Intel Stock at the time, and even undervolted day 1, and have experienced none of the issues people are referring too. Unfortunately most people just dropped and assumed the default settings were best. This was a complete and utter failure.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised. It's possible the ftc is waiting on the results of the patch going out. They may not fully get that damage is irreversible. It's almost certain if the patch doesn't halt degradation nearly completely.
Intel releases buggy chip, discovers the problem but doesn't tell anyone, drags their feet on huge recall... Hmmm... I've done it! I've successfully traveled back to 1994! I can relive my childhood! I can live another 30 years in peace before the country implodes messily! I can tell my parents how to raise my younger self! I can get rich taking huge short positions before the 2008 recession!
Reminder that; AMD RMA'd affected customers their 7800X3d *INCLUDING* their motherboard, even though after investigation, the issue was caused by motherboard partners and NOT AMD's 7800X3D.
Yup! My brother has R7 7800X3D with MSI B650 Edge board and he never had a problem with the CPU or the board, even tho board has never had it's BIOS updated. The problem was in ASUS and Gigabyte boards overvolting CPUs. We made a smart choice and went with MSI for our new builds right after the incident. We stopped using ASUS for good after a decade of using ASUS products, ranging from monitors, phones, motherboards, GPUs, network devices and so on.
@@gv100_blitz Not sure about customer support(didn't need it yet), but true, Mystic Light is pure trash, but then again so is every other RGB control software, except SignalRGB. That one worked fine for me and it might be good for you if you don't mind occasional light freezing - caused by motherboard RGB SDKs and other RGB SDKs and software(conflicts). If you uninstall this software, SignalRGB will work fine.
well duh because the proper fix would be both fixing the problem with the motherboard bios to prevent it from happening again and then replacing the cpu's which were damaged by the old bad bios's plain and simple you can fix the damage that's already done it's done and permanent
@burakozc3079 only 1 large company that has bought 8 million already has 2 million failures, I'm assuming based on this, it's going to easily be a 10 MILLION + cpu recall
The fact they are trying their best to avoid a recall speaks volumes for why their company has fallen into hard times. They no longer care about reputation, image or respect to consumers.
@@myne00 They could do a partial recall where they replace the entire bad batch(s) (we aren't sure how many batches are bad yet) with known tested good processors. That would not take long at all.
Huh? Of course the company is going to try to fix the problem before a recall. What are you talking about? That's like business 101. Falling into hard times? Huh? Do you see how many people were using these CPUs? Intel still dominates the market. The 137k and 149k are the best CPUs for the price. Both processors got high marks from GN, hardware unboxed and many other people. Reputation? Intel has earned good will over decades. Some people are still using chips that are 10 years old. Do you have any idea how much money they've saved over the last 10 years going with Intel, and you think they're just going to jump ship like rats over one issue that will eventually get solved? Lmfao... It would take more than this to ruin their reputation with me. To the contrary, AMD sucked for so long, they have years to go before earning the kind of reputation Intel has. People like you that leave these comments never had any intention of running Intel, so you have no idea what other people are thinking. You're also clueless, and just making things up.
@@DingleBerryschnapps Well now we know what Intel fanbois think ... thanks for sharing! AMD has far more than earned their reputation back ... this is obvious to everyone except the most hardened fanbois. We certainly do know what people are thinking, because owners and companies that have been having these issues, along with outlets that are investigating this have been speaking up. Intel is shuffling this under the rug as much as possible and only been addressing this at all because of the breadth and seriousness of the issue has been exposed all over the media -- their shareholders are who is important to them, this has been obvious for a looong time.
@@Intruder74 Why would you buy a CPU knowing it has problems but it will be okay if you change voltage etc. in BIOS? That is stupid to me I'm not buying anything like that it's ridiculous.
@@ThmsDouglas I'm talking to people who already own this CPU like myself. I notice day one this CPU is spiking too high with voltage and immediately went to BIOS to change everything to Intel specs. Had 0 crashes and i had this CPU now for 14 months. What you don't seem to understand is 50% of this problem is Motherboards fault, stock settings allow this CPU to spike way too high and pull way too much voltages it ever needs. Now lets go back to history since you obviously are lacking some info on this issue. This issue is not new. It has been with us since 9th generation of Intels CPU's. So according to your own statement everyone who bought Intel CPU since 9th gen, is stupid.
@WaspMedia3D I don't really understand the fanaticism. I have a 14900kf and it was unstable out of the box, but after adjusting the ac/DC load line, it benchmarks excellently and at a level that matches the latest AMD chip (not the 9000). I fully expect the 9000 to kick my i9s ass when it comes out.
Igor’s Lab found evidence of FinFet device degradation which is even worst than the initial hypothesis of Electromigration. Every 13th & 14th gen will fail eventually even in idle.
@@tringuyen7519 I don't understand why they aren't suing Intel. If what they say is true, they might get a decent payoff; otherwise, they will face a defamation lawsuit. I'd LOVE to see how that plays out :)
I did Intel 386 and 586, then AMD K6-2 and Athlon, then Intel SandyBridge, now AMD Zen4 Phoenix-Point. I’m glad I did AMD recently! Their 780M igpu is also awesome. I’ve surprisingly been at 50/50 Intel v AMD cpus for the last 40 years!
@@mikeree8543 Nope. I had a bunk set of memory sticks cause problems, other than that nope. Everything runs perfectly fine. Now I had USB weirdness when first adopted this platform, but so did everyone else, that was years ago now.
Ok but I was straight up afraid of AMD for years after 2 separate releases of chips caught fire in the socket. I went with Intel for 20+ years and they finally have a problem. Being a fanboy is stupid. You should be "Team AMD until they f me over then back to intel".
Never say "forever", but definitely... pay attention to things. The ramping power use of Intel chips fighting desperately to stay ahead of AMD in benchmarks has been a growing problem, and really kind of foreshadowed this, in hindsight.
No no no, it's just a matter of time until AMD f*cked up too. The best practice is to always wait for unbiased reviews. GN and HWU is good place to start.
@@enilenis well if your buying the right light bulb it should last 10 yrs or more unless you have it on all the time which should last around 5-6 years. which is around 3-7 cpu release cycles. So quite literally a lightbulb is better investment than intel CPUs now
@@manitoba-op4jxThis doesn't happen unless you get close-ish to the oxide breakdown voltage. 1.5v generally doesn't do that unless the oxide layer is improperly formed. This is electron migration damage. Same thing that's been observed for over a decade at this point.
It's like buying a car for many times more than the competition because it was 10% faster than others in the tests, losing the fuel tank, the steering, the seat, the brakes failing and the air conditioning spitting fire after a few hours of driving - and then saying to yourself: “Yeah, but other cars aren't that fast either” :D
Running a i5 4670K here, and for the first time in my life, I've come into a windfall. So now I will be building my first new pc. My last AMD system was 2nd hand Athlon XP1800, but after watching this crap show unfold, I'll be going AM5 and 7800X3D.
Daaaang you held on forever. I was on my 4670k @ 4.7GHz and very nearly jumped on a 5820k, nearly lured into Intels overpriced HEDT just for more threads because the 4770k/4790k prices held solid at ridiculous prices so I eventually landed on the R5 3600 which has about the same ST performance as my 4670k but mindblowing MT improvement. Then along came a deal on the 5800X3D which I have no intention of replacing and find Intels predicament hilarious.
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Unless you're buying a GPU that costs more than the rest of your system combined, you most likely won't see a substantial performance increase from a 9000 series over a fast CPU from a few years ago. It makes plenty of sense not to buy the latest and greatest.
I think non-damaged CPUs probably need new microcode to cap the voltages without an extreme performance hit and damaged CPUs probably need that PLUS a nerfed performance profile to simply continue functioning. I think they (purposely, but now calling it erroneous) put behavior in the microcode which deliberately disobeys orders set by the user and the BIOS to make its own decisions on when to boost clocks and voltages and when to pull them back. I think their next option will be to try offering aggressive rebates to people and make getting to a replacement more difficult and tedious than trying to cancel cable. They won't have the physical capacity to replace all CPUs, and can't have non-faulty stock for quite some time. Phase 1: Pretend nothing is wrong Phase 2: Acknowledge issue, stall as much as possible (We are currently here) Phase 3: Cap as many functional CPUs, Nerf as many unstable CPUs as possible Phase 4: Offer conditional rebates that end your warranty and opt you out of class action Phase 5: Total meltdown
I've got a i9 14900k and what you said might be true, couse on the first boot, the processor was set at bios level with a 4096watts limit, and 500Amps. 6GHZ 2 cores, 5,8 all the others. 1,5/6v on the vcore...That lead to 100c almost every time. I started reverting that inmediatly after some testing, and the result is awesome. I can reach 5,5/5,6ghz pcores, and 4,3ghz on ecores, at 0,98/1,05v, with 77c beein the most high temperature that iv'got, at 307amps and 180w turbo boost. (256PL2) So yes, this processors are really unlocked, and anyone who has one is in danger if they dont know about this, or about overclock... if you dont check this things that i talk about that cpu is far from good out of the box
No way in hell will Intel sell next generation's chips with 2 straight generations of failed chips. We may be seeing a drastic reduction in Intel as a company. They're BLEEDING.
If there's a manufacturing defect they'll either relent to customer pressure or face damaging law suits. There's likely a swarm of lawyers forming even now ready to take a big bite out of INTEL.
All the actions Intel are taking are the actions of a company who has decided it’s likely more profitable to defend a class action lawsuit than deal with a recall. They’re gonna dig their heels in, despite the evidence it’s a faulty product.
I have 3770k and rx 6600 and DDR3 16gb ram running on 2400mhz but still my game is stuttering in apex . Found out my cpu is cooking at 94c @4.6ghz 1.27 volt
@@dr.noscopegaming630 As others have pointed out, 94c is rather high. Your voltage isn't too bad so maybe try down clocking to 4.5ghz and see what it does as far as temp. It should be stable and if the temps improve then you can try slightly undervolting it for even better temps. I currently have the same CPU as my daily driver and have it set to an overclock of a little above 4.3ghz with 1.24v max and during stress testing it hits around 75c and never goes above 80c. I also run an overclock on the baseclock from 100 to 106 for a slight nudge in IPC gains. My RAM can't hit the advertised 2,400mhz which was disappointing but it is because I am running four sticks for 32GB. Two sticks will always be more stable and run at higher specs than using all four dimms. I am also using an rx 6600 and that 8gb of video memory gives a lot of life to older titles which I can easily play at 4k@60fps. The one thing that has helped a lot with keeping me using this system is an updated bios for the mobo that allows me to install the OS on an nvme drive through a pcie slot which is much better than the two native sata3 ports available on the board. Even on pcie-3 I can get 2GB/s read and write on a gen4 nvme drive. Also worth noting, assuming I am correct that is, I believe the 3rd gen Intel chips were the first gen to use thermal paste for the heatspreader which is fine when not pushing the chips to their limits. Once you reach a certain threshold of frequency you will need to start pushing a lot more voltage for relatively little gains other than generating more heat. My CPU hits a wall at around 4.3ghz and once I start adding voltage the temp goes up faster than relative frequency which is why I settled on the 4.3 OC. Also worth noting is that I bought the mobo, CPU, and RAM a couple years ago used for $120 total. So far I have been impressed with the performance considering its age and the fact that I can play games at 4k@60fps while watching youtube on a 2nd monitor with the iGPU is a bonus considering these things only have four cores.
It's mostly an Intel fabs issue if I am right. AMD is wise to have their CPUs made by TSMC. If Arrow Lake is confirmed to be manufactured by TSMC, maybe it's good enough to be trusted.
@@8bitbender495 If Intel replies with a new generation of excellent parts, I'm sure plenty of people would just default to "we fear change" and buy them up like candy.
@@auturgicflosculator2183 Nvidia fuck me badly years ago with his Linux team not doing a shit. Never ever again I would buy anything from them, I would love to kick the head of leather jacket man for those days of ruining my job. I bet many many Intel users let down by this cpu burn who have to buy again a new computer to replace their 2-3 years old PC, would not buy any Intel product again. Just mess somebody´s time and hard earn money and you would have an enemy forever. I buy whatever I think it is the best for me,not a fanboy of this or that. I do not buy computers for 10% more frames in GTA5,those are my tools to earn money.
Wait... I bought a 13900k because I thought that it was the best I could find and now you're saying that not only I have a cpu that is flawed by design but also the producer won't do anything to replace it?
Products liability is something enforced by suing, not companies acting human. And to avoid liability, companies diagnose to a legal convenience standard, not an objectively true standard.
That's nice of Intel to admit it, UK users now have a 6 year free warranty because they are defective, all you need to do is prove you bought the CPU prior to mitigation and you are gravy 1st October 2015 Consumer Rights Act.
@@calvitocalvon1711 for each CPU, yeah. The man-hours of labour, and effectively higher costs, lost on continually degrading hardware by virtue of a known and (quite possibly) maliciously obscured design flaw tho? Big corporations (high-end consumer CPUs are often used as server CPUs if expensive Xeon/EPYC-exclusive aren't needed, they've suffered hardware failure too) have gone to court for way, waaaaay less than what Intel has pulled on its clients here, pulling in the smaller contractors, freelancers, home consumers, etc would be just a nice bonus if the affected decide to pile up when lawyering. Honestly? Intel needs to recall the entire affected line-up and figure a way to send out the 12th gen equivalent to whatever CPU was RMA-ed, if they hope to make it out of this without leaving AMD in an honestly better position than their own when AMD was barely hanging by the PS4 APU's threads back in the early 2010s (and even then, their reputation is already gone to dust now, they really should have just released desktop Meteor Lake as their 14th gen, underwhelming as it might have been).
@@calvitocalvon1711 i spent 8 mnths and lots of money trying to fix my 13900k only to learn it was actually defective from the factory. I find you stupid af by the way, just to make that clear.
I don't think so. Maybe only big company that uses Intel want the compensation. But most Intel customers still proud to use Intel processor although the processor die. Many Intel customers denied these problem, although Intel already admitted.
Even if intel recalls all the chips and return customers money what are people supposed to do already having invested on the platform? Will motherboard manufacturers accept a free exchange for a AM5 board? What would I do with ddr4 memory that isn't compatible with ryzen now?
To me the absolute worst part is they had a process that was not doing this but they had to boost the clocks even higher with very very marginal gain add in more ecores that the greater majority of people were never going to notice the existence of and shrink parts on the node and we have problems. I feel bad for my peers that bit the bullet the last couple years and replaced their 12700's with 13700 or 14700 chips I got lucky that other priorities took over so CPU was off the shopping list and that saved me.
Why would anyone replace a working 12th gen chip with a 13th or 14th gen? You need to wait at least about 5 years before any upgrade has a noticeable affect on daily use .
It's worrying how intel is dealing with this. Always felt that the 13th gen was pushed too far to keep ahead of amd and it hits them back in the face. If the microcode 'fix' introduces any performance deterioration you're just stuck with a 13100 cpu with a huge price tag. Unacceptable.
@@enilenisthey... already kinda have a drop-in replacement designed, though? 12th gen CPUs aren't seemingly affected here. Sure, they aren't as powerful as their 13th/14th gen kin, but they're not crippled like it and won't have the same performance drop that seems to be coming to keep 13th/14th gen from frying itself.
@@enilenis Intel is supplier to many governments, I guess they'll get help to stay afloat if they go broke over this. They make server CPUs and a bunch of other stuff as well, but it would put a sizeable dent into their funds for sure. But the future seems bleak for intel.
Damn.. Switch to AMD buddy. I'm happily running my R5 7600X at 5.4 GHz on around 1.2-1.3V and CPU never goes beyond 60 degrees Celsius. Note: CPU is not overclocked, but AMD boost is on.
@@yesdadbut960 Limit the voltage supplied to CPU, underclock it, turn off XMP, and make a more aggressive fan curve to improve cooling. This should help extend life of the CPU in short term. In long term, your CPU is screwed regardless of what you do.
13900k with 360 AIO. 5 months, 0 crashes. Updated my ASUS bios from 1102 to 1503 3 days ago. Now its on performance profile with 307A limiter and PL1/2 253W. Stress test with CPU-Z is 90 C peak. Passed all tests in Intel PDT. Idle temps between 29-34 wth ambient temp 25 C. Its stable.
Same but with a 7950X3D CPUs I had were i7 4770K (4C/8T) i7 5960X (8C/16T) > Best investment tbh i7 10700K (8C/16T) > Because the previous CPU died, otherwise i'd have skipped that. R9 7950X3D (16/32T) > Current best investment tbh
The opposite infact because Intel screwed up by not actually addressing the issue early. AMD caught some issue before actually publicly releasing the cpu, this makes no one dissatisfied with their product. Also the delay isn't that long. This in turn will make amd look like a better cpu maker because their actually care about delivering a good quality experience product whereas Intel rushes out whatever thing they come up with.
It looks to me that it's a marketing strategy by AMD, with what they did being transparent and all by delaying the Ryzen 9000s due to it not "reaching it's specs" is showing the public that they can be trusted to not screw them of their money. This will put more pressure on Intel to even be more transparent with their isssues but since AMD probably already know that the issue is more complex than what Intel is trying to say then Intel is forced to choose bad options by either lying and not telling the whole truth or by being honest and letting the public know how much big of a problem they have in their hands either way it's a lose-lose situation. By delaying the products, AMD is basically keeping the spotlight on both company and who doesn't want the spotlight right now? Intel. Edit: And by the way, I'll just predict it now that AMD will release their products when Intel reports that "they found the solution" or "decided to recall their products" this would in turn remove the spotlight from Intel and focus it on AMD making the public ignore Intel's report which will basically keep their status being bad stick a little bit longer because most people wouldn't hear or read their report as the news will be overwhelmed by the AMD product launch. Pretty ruthless of AMD if that's what they're doing.
If anything, this favors AMD in every way, the Microcode patch will lower the voltage which will most likely come with a performance reduction, meaning that compared to the new Ryzen 9000 series they will seem faster than before
I'm in the middle of a new build. I was going to use the intel i5 13600K. Already installed it on the motherboard. Waiting on a GPU. At this point I'm going with a new AMD CPU and motherboard. Not going to even bother to fire it up.
You could get a 12th gen if you don't mind a little less CPU power (or more if you buy up to a 12700k or better) and saving the money on the mobo. But, yeah, buy AM5, 9000 got delayed but that's already a much better sign than whatever Intel's doing
@@Derfderk The irony is that AMD's delay is still shorter than having to go through the RMA process with a vendor or the manufacturer. The bigger disappointment for the 9000 series is not having new motherboards although I am not sure what would be updated from the current ones already available.
If you've already completed your build it only makes sense to 'fire it up'. There haven't been any i5-13600K incidents reported at present, - or simply return your i5 processor for a refund.
@@marke5335 The 13600k are effected just like all the rest of the raptor lake ones. Why would I fire it up knowing its got a 50% chance of failing? And intel is denying refunds right not. So that is not an option.
I still have an R9 3900x. Parts have blown up around it, but it's kept on trucking since I bought it in 2019. The PSU shorted out, the AIO died, the graphics card played out, but that little AMD cpu has survived. I'll be retiring it soon since it doesn't have the productivity or gaming prowess to keep up with my demands these days, but it's served me well. I look forward to upgrading to a 7800x3d or a 9000 series chip come black friday, alongside the rest of my rig.
@@poweruppikawho9007 I'm also in the market for either a 5800x3D (just to be cheap & get a drop-in upgrade that'll actually improve gaming performance) or finally upgrade to a newer platform. That "was" going to be LGA1700, but even then I had only looked at getting a 12700K/13600K or 12900K/13700K. 14th "gen" was never even a consideration lol. However as things currently stand, I'd rather just stick with AMD & get a 7800x3D or 9000-series equivalent. I'd just need to proceed with my GPU upgrade first off, since my current 3060ti (which is OC'ed to the max just like my CPU haha) is beginning to fall short of the 1440p/144Hz target that I want with most titles. Sure, DLSS/FSR helps, but I'd like to just go ahead and get some extra VRAM while I'm not actually being held back to a crazy extent by only 8GB. So the choices I've considered are either the 4070 Super/Ti Super (or just regular Ti), or the RX 7900 GRE from AMD (one hell of a 16GB card for now less than $500 where I live)
The patch won't fix whats already broke, but it will stop cpus that AREN'T damaged yet from getting damaged. You have to stem the losses before dealing with the losses.
@@sherrydowns4052 that's not known yet, it's just controlling voltage that goes to a specific circuit. My Ryzen 3700x has been undervolted since day 1, running 4.3 ghz all cores at all times, and is air cooled, has never seen a moment above 62C. You can;t fix something once it's gotten too hot and starts to break down, but if you can make it run cooler, you can still maintain the same level of performance.
It won't fix non damaged cpus it will just slow the rusting/oxidation down you can't stop rusting/oxidation magically like that. You need to physically clean them and solve the issue that caused the rust in the first place.
@@cin2110 the oxidation is internal to the silicon chip, theres nothing you can physically clean, it's process step in the manufacture of the wafer where the mistake happened.
They aren't even sure if that's the only cause of the problems (they probably know that it isn't, but won't admit it). Go watch Moore's Law is Dead video. The CPUs will probably still degrade, but slower.
Is Intel suffering like Boeing? Embracing R&D at the lowest common denominator? Customers are now feeling the enrichment of ESG and DEI policies? It can only get better and I am beginning to feel all warm and fuzzy inside as merit sizzles away in the engineering and QA sphere. So much love 💕😘.
They're stalling the recall. They are very well aware it's on it's way but if they delay this too long (Which isn't far away), they will bury themselves for the next 2 years. AMD has just announced it's pause in 9000 series CPU's due to a potential issue, which is a good thing, no one wants a brand new component that already has debilitating problems.
i think my cpu 13700k was already damaged . when i run all p core my pc keep crush even browser also not open . games? no way not even open for a sec. when i off 4p core (p0, p2, p4, p5 ) from bios my pc run smoothly. i try to claim warranty but in my country where i buy the cpu they say intel deined it the shop send the cpu to china for replacement. intel china service center told that it's my fault i damage my cpu i can't claim warranty for forever. i don't even no how i damage it. so now i run my pc with 4p core and 8e core. i just upgrade my pc like 8month's and now i'm facing this. before i was happy amd user. now i regret .
I spent more money than I had to get a very highly rated cpu from intel years ago. the board died and so I went to get a new board and found out they had gone to a new socket and the boards were no longer available. then I found out the new socket was going to be replaced soon as well. I was in a bind so I bought the cheapest cpu and board I could to get back up as fast as possible but they were both subpar. 2 cores with no hyper threading, but really cheap I ran it for about 5 years and it got me by. once that system was ready to upgrade I had spent quite a bit of time educating myself on the sockets, cpu classes and manufactures. I decided to push the system for another year and buy an amd at the supposed very end of it's life cycle. I figured the bugs had all been worked out by that point and whatever tricks they had learned to make it better had been incorporated into the chip. I bought a 9 5900 and went from a 2 core dog that made my life miserable every day to a dream machine. I am sorry to hear how they are trying to cheat you out of a replacement but at least you can still run it in limp mode for now. you are going to have to decide if that will work for you long enough to see how things work out or if you need a faster system there are intel chips that will fit that socket which should not have an issue but a lot of people will be looking for those soon. or you could always look for a deal on a snappy amd board and cpu. I would run some benchmarks on your system wuth the 4 cores and see how it compares. you might be surprised. either way I feel for you and you are not alone. millions of people are gonna get bit by this. best of luck on whatever you decide either way
Okay, here's a potential temporary fix for folks who have the 14th gen CPU's affected. Maybe 13th as well. But before that, an explanation of what's basically happening in layman terms. Update: Apparently I have to add this... closer to the top... My 'temporary fix' is nothing permanent, nor is it meant to keep your performance the same while avoiding the issues that Intel needs to make right. It's ONLY to make it so that your CPU will keep operating until you can get something to replace it. Yes, this means that some of the results, will NOT be to your liking, likely. Now back to our regular program... --- Imagine the 'wiring' inside the CPU being like a rubber hose. Normally, there is only ever enough voltage going through that hose to keep it firm at most, but when voltages drop, so does the stiffness of the hose. This is 'normal'. What is not normal, is the increased fluctuations in the voltage going through the hose, resulting in it being stretched out more and more each time it happens. This makes it so that the minimum amount of voltage required to keep it stiff enough to allow a proper flow must happen. So the minimum voltage rises. Now, I understand that some professionals in this field will look at this and go "That's not quite the right way to explain it." But, this is an attempt to get something 'close enough' for those who just aren't on that level with tech, okay? Okay, so now the temporary fix. Technically, Intel is trying to implement it already with their microcode update, but basically they even admit their version of it is not going to help anyone with problems already showing up; and those without problems might still have them occur over longer periods of time anyways. My fix, hopefully solves that to some degree for those of you who need your computer to remain operating while you look for something to replace the parts, or get an RMA, etc. (And to be perfectly clear, this method is not going to keep you running at the same performance level as you expect from that CPU. You are nerfing it, hard. This is not to keep performance. This is to keep operating stable enough to use the rig you have. Sorry if it's not everyone's cup of tea.) Essentially... you're gonna underclock your CPU, and RAM. Then, you're going to undervolt them as well until you find the point of instability, then raise it back up again until it's stable. Yeah, the older tech heads will probably know what I'm going on about here. Those of you who don't, welcome to the 2000's again. 1990's too to some extent. Essentially, you are making it so that even if the voltage spikes like Intel is trying to prevent, your spikes will only still be (Hopefully) within the safe margin. I.E. They don't stretch the hose. But the trick here is to find the golden zone so to speak, where the voltage is low enough to not do that, but also keep *most* of your performance available at the higher voltages. It's a pretty tricky balancing act, and if anyone out there is really good at this, you should make a video about it for those who aren't. Next, you're gonna turn off absolutely all forms of hyperthreading. Your extra cores go bye bye. Not only are they a security risk today anyways, but they are also technically increasing the resources required by the CPU to operate. Removing this, will effectively both reduce your performance sadly, but also reduce the voltages required to operate at. Which also reduces your heat output. This is where you might be able to recover some performance by leveraging that lowered heat output. Now, back to the Ram mentioned before. Long story short, Ram and CPU are connected in their voltage supply in a way where even though they are separated, each's own voltage will affect the other. So you are going to have to find a Goldilocks zone for this as well if you haven't already. Finally, one last thing. Microsoft's Windows settings. Go to the power settings, where you have the balanced, performance, maximum, etc settings to choose from. Enter the advanced setup and make your own setting. You're going to tell it to never go beyond 99% for the CPU's max, and allow it to reach 0% on the CPU's minimum. Every other setting is basically up to you, since it's going to affect things like battery life if in a laptop, or quality of videos and such otherwise. Most of you reading this won't really need to bother with any of the other settings. Just the one I mentioned. You can make your job easier if wanted, by choosing the max setting before hand and then modifying it into your own. This way you keep all the other settings the way you want them on max, but you are kneecapping your cpu on the windows side of things. This is important, because this setting overrides basically anything in the Bios/UEFI. It's annoying as all heck, but also useful as all heck depending on the situation at hand. In your case with the 14th gen Intel chips, it's useful I think, if used right. The 99% option is going to make it so that the CPU is never going to try to reach 100% utilization. This should effectively cap the possible spikes that occur. And frankly, this setting might be enough for some who have yet to experience enough of these spikes. But the prior stuff mentioned is there to also help make sure that even if spikes do still occur despite this setting change, they should be minimal beyond even what Intel is aiming for with their microcode update. (I think) Ultmately, I have no way to test this myself, because I do not own anything 14th or even 13th gen. But based on what I know about getting other Intel and AMD products to operate stable under unique setup circumstances; I think this will help. Again, anyone better suited to make a video that details this all, or even corrects some of it if any is useful at all; do so.
When 12th gen launched I was thinking anyone owning these CPUs must undervolt them to keep the power draw reasonable, and to avoid degradation. 13th and 14th gen will be left without comment. Of course once you undervolt these you'll find that your intel CPU has nothing to compete to the comparable AMD chip, once it loses its exclusive frequency. Actually you want to do the same to Ryzen aswell, but anyway undervolting Ryzen comes usually with little loss to performance. As on top on everything AMD has to leave a nice amount of extra voltage to both their CPUs and GPUs to avoid more drama in the media sphere to be instigated by Intel and Nvidia, meaning you have a good room for improvement.
I had undervolt, limit to 300 watts, also fixed cores, and my cpu failed in 5 months. 13900k stays in around 1.35 volts ideally for stable 5.5ghz and 4.3ghz on p and e cores. All that write up is nonsense. It is not a fix, it's making your cpu an i5 My cpu was undervolted and still failed. I also watched voltage and it was in 1.28-1.35v range always. Under spec in voltage and still destroyed. You writting this shit up is only making people comply with the bullsh. I limited to 262 on 2nd chip. You either run a chip as it is supposed to or let it fail and rma it. Don't make cpu an i5 Also I had to turn off Multicore Enhancement in order to watt limit properly
@@Cod3_nam3 Apparently not everyone agree's, but that's fine. I realize it might not be the ultimate fix for everyone. It's just meant to keep things running, not fix Intel's F-up.
@@righteousone8454 So, you're really terrible attitude aside, I suggest you read again the part where I said " (And to be perfectly clear, this method is not going to keep you running at the same performance level as you expect from that CPU. You are nerfing it, hard. This is not to keep performance. This is to keep operating stable enough to use the rig you have. Sorry if it's not everyone's cup of tea.)" I.E. It's not meant to keep you ahead of the races while avoiding the problems Intel should have never let be released. It's only to help people keep their system running until they can replace it. If they have to downgrade their i9 to an i7 or i7 to an i5, then so be it. Now, unless you have something useful to say... go away. None of us need your attitude, and frankly, you're attitude would be a lot different if this were all in person; so can it.
me sittin' with my Ryzen 7 5800X3D which i upgraded from a i7 4790k and felt like i made tha best decision ever especially when DDR4 Ram is way cheaper now
Not really, i'm using victus with i7 13700hx and the processor died after 5 month usage, thankfully there is hp adp for 2 years, and my motherboard replace with a new one
3:41 according to my knowledge, you have to overclock it yourself. They can't do that for you. How can they? They don't know what CPU you're using. A CPU is rated at a particular frequency for a reason, it's supposed to run at that frequency. Intel literally can't blame motherboard manufactures for something they frankly don't have much control over.
My i7-14700k has had instability issues since installation. Immediately noticed significantly reduced performance at the 4-8 core mark specifically when running background tasks. Crashes my system like once a day now and I wish I could go back and swap to the 7800X3D.
More of a reason why going with amd is a better choice now (im not fanboy of any company) despite them being weaker for now until there new series drops i think will still be a smarter move to do.
@@DaftDrunk24 Hopefully. I was gonna buy i9-14900K but went with AMD because it was cheaper and better deal for my needs. I'm now glad I didn't buy it. Almost everyone I know has went with AMD recently.
@@DaftDrunk24 Nvidia makes the best overall GPUs, but AMD still holds better value. I went with Sapphire Nitro+ RX7800 XT for my build and I can throw everything at it without a problem, and that's at 2K 155Hz. So far I ran every game I downloaded on Ultra/Very High/Maximum. The only part where this card struggled a bit was ray tracing on High, where I saw a dip in FPS, but that's to be expected. I didn't buy this card for RT anyways, I bought it because it too was a better deal. 100 euros more and I could've gotten RX7900 GRE, but shipping was also 30 euros, and I would have to wait a whole month for the card at least.
If you have a CPU that is already unstable/degraded the fix that is coming won't help you what you need is an RMA as Intel will need to replace it now the issue is that according to Wendell Intel was denying RMA for these CPU's from the people that he talked to in the Enterprise side before he and Steve released their video now hopefully for the general consumers that won't be an issue but who knows what Intel would do at this point.
"General consumers" will get their RMAs done through the distributors and retailers they purchased their CPUs from, while enterprises work more directly with Intel themselves. So the general customers are completely left to rely on their retailers fulfilling their RMAs. As if I was a retailer I'd also stall the rebates - and that's only because I'd be expecting Intel themselves to not recognize replacements I've made. Remember, different retailers have their own service and support policies, on top of terms of contracts with distributors.
only way to fix the issue is to.manually lower down the ratio and voltage in the bios which work btw i tested the voltage and others on youtube did as well but for people that has no computer knowledge .gg?
@@ThmsDouglas probably the issue is an incorrect compromise, I'm not a chip designer but I would imagine it's a whole bag of compromises to bring it into an operational zone, if it eliminates damage then job done
I'd like to understand what "damaged forever" means. I experienced some BSOD with my i9-13900KF, and couldn't quite figure out what was causing them. I did have BSOD when I used AMD too, and in both cases I didn't think something was particularly off, we're talking about Windows after all. Then there's this news about this Intel issue, so I started to pay attention. I did update the BIOS today with the microcode fix. But still, what I don't understand is in what way the CPU is damaged forever. Honestly, if I wouldn't have heard of this voltage issue I would have kept using my PC as nothing had happened. In fact, since the few BSOD I had with the Intel (around 6-8 since last year), I didn't have any other issue with the PC performances, and I do heavy 3D graphics (stills, and animation). So, not sure what to make of this...
I saw the next question was "what makes you think it doesnt affect mobile (laptop) customers" .. and you skipped over this question but its one I'd like answered. My brand new 13th gen i9 4060 laptop is still in the box waiting for this answer. I've had it almost 6 weeks. I'd like to game with it. Meanwhile I continue gaming & browsing using my THIRD gen workhorse. Oh my gosh.
Man, this is just sad. At least 50% of all their i7s and i9s are bad. That's, what, 25% of the entire 14th gen stock, once you factor in the i5s and i3s. Even if you assume they made a lot more of those, you're still looking at probably 15-20% of all 14th gen cpus being defective. And personally, I'm wondering if this is an architecture issue, and that it would effect the lower end chips too, if they were given similar amounts of power.
It's definitely an "architecture issue", as the product was designed to be pushed to the absolute limit. Obviously the incompetent fools in Intel's R&D didn't know exactly where the limit was, on top of the already stupid performance goal. Even though the issue is technically in the microcode - however with the new microcode performance will tank and we will learn 13th gen isn't capable of taking on Ryzen 7000 (after all the microcode updates, obviously the first patch won't fix it). The i9s and i7s are the most expensive and thus profitable part of the lineup, so for intel it will be more than 25% of the CPUs they've sold in RMA expenses. The lower models are likely more stable as they don't need that high voltage to sustain their already lower than the i9 clocks (both cores and frequency require power) even if we account the fact i5s and i3s are low bins it should still be in favor of the cheap SKUs. Still no reason to defend the idea of purchasing LGA 1700 system in the first place - intel only offers dead platform that lack an upgrade path, it's historically this way as people fight over for i7s (and now i9s) to upgrade their boards.
The government should intervene for a recall for all chips regardless if its affected or not. They are knowingly selling defective cpus and they effectively dont know whats causing the issue. This is just dishonest.
Same, sitting here with my Ryzen 5800x just laughing at Intel's incompetence, also glad I swapped to Linux because Windows seems to be falling down the same pit
Yea and nivideas connector is 100% safe and dont cause the melting... it's almost likely they are layz engineering these things and pushing the limits too much.... who would have thought that 🤔
Welp, 13th I7 here. Bought a pre-built from microcenter with extended 2yr warranty last year. I guess I'm making a trip there soon huh? (Any advice is appreciated)
All 13th and 14th gen CPUs are already damaged (to some extent) since they already admitted there were exposing them to too high voltage, and a microcode update will not fix existing damage, just future damage.
Technically the MBs were exposing them to excessive voltages. Intel are to blame in allowing manufacturers to exceed safe limits, but it is the manufacturers who were doing that so their MBs would look good in benchmark comparisons.
@@burakozc3079 Just because something is possible does not mean it is ok to do it. Intel has no control over how MB vendors design or operate their boards. The CPU has an operational capability, but that is not the spec it should be operated at. The MB vendors are expected to be responsible in their design, not push everything to the max. Obviously that is what the buyers want and demand, but it is still inappropriate use. For example, you can buy a car that has an engine that physically might be able push a car to 300 mph, but that does not mean the car designer should make a car that runs at 300 mph routinely. Obviously that will drastically shorten the engine lifetime. Remember, Intel does not warranty overclocked processors, and every single one of these are being overclocked out the box by the MB vendor. If they do a RMA, most times it is out of goodwill, not because they have to.
@@scp--wc9zv There's less data available on lower end SKUs at the moment, but there are some initial signs that the issues exist across all 13th and 14th gen CPUs.
Agreed! I have been dealing with this since beginning of this year extensively. When CPU starts crashing it's gone. Bios will remedy to some extend, at first looking promising but you will start limiting it in bios pretty soon. Atm my CPU 13900k is "stable" only at 5ghz max (limited in bios). it's going back in a day or two for RMA.
This is the result if you are so drunk with the glory of the past that you forget to innovate, when there are competitors who offer better products, you are even far behind your competitors
Intel gotta do a CPU recall. They should be grateful that they're intel, not amd and that they can bounce back their reputation possibly. If amd pulled anywhere close to this type of bs they would be cooked
There's definitely a reason to have competition between x86 processor makers. Since Cyrix isn't really an option and I haven't seen or heard of any other licenses being issued lately it's hard to stop Intel entirely.
You are forgetting that the most series before that was unstable for most professionals. But after this fiasco, Intel will lose market dominance along with trust. They failed to compete with Ryzen for the past 5 or so years. I also think they will not reimburse 13 and 14th gen owners. It will take at least 2 generations of sockets for them to recover from this.
That's rebranded alder lake tho not raptor lake and raptor lake refresh (your cpu is intel 12th gen not 13th gen). The one who getting the issue is raptor lake and raptor lake refresh (13th and 14th gen) starting from 13600k to 14900ks
*with a huge slathering of sarcasm* "OH... no. 13th and 14th Intel chips are firing themselves, whatever shall I do." Oh, I don't know... bought AMD, because it was affordable.
This was a common issue when overclocking back in the 90s, before CPUs had things like overvoltage and thermal protection. You’d see overclocked CPUs needing more and more voltage to remain stable at a given clock speed. The root cause is electromigration, and it never gets better. Once it starts, the CPU will relentlessly degrade over time, eventually requiring ridiculous voltage to remain stable even when idle.
If your game crashes once a week, people usually dismiss it as a Windows problem. It doesn't stop there though. Over the next few months, crashes become gradually more frequent to the point that you can't ignore it anymore. That's why it takes some time before anyone suspects it is a hardware issue.
@@syrupybrandy2788 just one thing, if I understood correctly the symptoms of a faulty processor are crashes in games I have also seen videos on UA-cam where the PC freezes on startup and intermittent blue screens; it's really a big disappointment from a company like Intel
I remember back in the day when the Pentium 60 came out, I had to get it replaced due to the "floating point" error. Intel tried their best to sweep that whole scene under the rug and it sounds like they're being a bit shady here as well.
This patch is to hopefully prevent degradation. Further degradation in already damaged chips. You cannot reverse existing damage. Perhaps in 50-80 years this sort of thing will be fixable with nanites, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Asus has released a bios update micrcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operates within intel spec dropped my vcore to 1.341 in bios. If you already have degradation RMA
Although AMD also have had issues, I'm sticking to AMD for the near future at best. Running a R7 3700X for 4 yrs smoothly I build myself and I'm happy. This Intel move is not in the best interest of their so customer-base. They forget that the CPU prices are not comparable to a leaf of bread, people have to work hard to pay their bills and safe money for a good computer. This isn't funny (understatement). Thanks for y'all UA-camrs chasing Intel to solve this. Cheers.
If things don't turn around for Intel or crash on AMD then give it 5 years for AMD to become dominant in more than just performance and they could swap places on that. NEVER assume a company has moral or compassion or any objective beyond making money. 100% private companies such as EVGA might mostly buck the trend, but the king almost always expects to above reproach and unlimited in license to act as they please.
@@auturgicflosculator2183 AMD owns am64, the 64bit isa used by windows and the default of most linux distros and thus most servers. If there was no cross licensing then AMD could still make chips valid for 95% of modern software not for mobile. With only 32bit on down Nvidia couldn't. So they could still build cpu's for am64 mainframes along the lines of Epyc. Windows could be adapted to work at straight boot to 64bit mode without the pitstop at 8088 mode.
I switched from and because the 5800x I owned got hot asf and had to keep it undervolted, a couple of bsod now and then. I guess I'll have to consider going back to amd again.
I am so happy that my minecraft server runs on an i5 13400, which is not affected. It runs 24/7 and would be pretty much dead if it was a 13600 or higher.
Who thinks they should just do a recall at this point?
We need to be starting a class action lawsuit to ensure they do the right thing at this point. They are clearly ducking responsibility
ty gamermeld im so glad i jumped back on Team red
There is a ton of misinformation out there about this. As a 14700KF owner. When I had purchased my motherboard. The partners were setting the PL1, and PL2's way past intel stock. For example my MSI Z690 MEG ACE, Was running at 4096W. Pushing my CPU way past intel stock. I saw this from the get-go. This issue is partly intels fault for allowing their CPU's to push way past certain voltages and wattages, and motherboard manufacturers were to blame by putting custom PL1, and PL2 power draws. that completely increased the failure rate.
I set mine to Intel Stock at the time, and even undervolted day 1, and have experienced none of the issues people are referring too. Unfortunately most people just dropped and assumed the default settings were best.
This was a complete and utter failure.
With the 15gen around the corner don’t think so. They should just 40-50% discounts on the 15th gen
They don't want the biggest CPU recall ever to land on their doorstep... But its, coming and they know it..
YUP. And they have no choice but to deal with it, or risk becoming a footnote in history.
YES
At this point I wouldn't be surprised. It's possible the ftc is waiting on the results of the patch going out. They may not fully get that damage is irreversible. It's almost certain if the patch doesn't halt degradation nearly completely.
Everybody start reporting the issue to the FCC
Intel releases buggy chip, discovers the problem but doesn't tell anyone, drags their feet on huge recall...
Hmmm...
I've done it! I've successfully traveled back to 1994! I can relive my childhood! I can live another 30 years in peace before the country implodes messily! I can tell my parents how to raise my younger self! I can get rich taking huge short positions before the 2008 recession!
Reminder that; AMD RMA'd affected customers their 7800X3d *INCLUDING* their motherboard, even though after investigation, the issue was caused by motherboard partners and NOT AMD's 7800X3D.
Yup! My brother has R7 7800X3D with MSI B650 Edge board and he never had a problem with the CPU or the board, even tho board has never had it's BIOS updated. The problem was in ASUS and Gigabyte boards overvolting CPUs. We made a smart choice and went with MSI for our new builds right after the incident. We stopped using ASUS for good after a decade of using ASUS products, ranging from monitors, phones, motherboards, GPUs, network devices and so on.
@astanisystems Asus screwed gamer nexus, they didn't know it was him obviously. Showed their true colors
@@IRaoulDuke Yeah. ROG Ally that appeared to be more like ROG Enemy. I saw the whole video series and it was baaaad.
@@astanisystemsgood idea, their hardware is shiny and rgb but their customer support and also software! Is basically bloatware! Man I miss evga
@@gv100_blitz Not sure about customer support(didn't need it yet), but true, Mystic Light is pure trash, but then again so is every other RGB control software, except SignalRGB. That one worked fine for me and it might be good for you if you don't mind occasional light freezing - caused by motherboard RGB SDKs and other RGB SDKs and software(conflicts). If you uninstall this software, SignalRGB will work fine.
Q: Will you buy an intel cpu
A: No
Yes
YES I BUY BECAUSE INDIA HAVE INTEL I9 14900K PRICE 400$
@@_RPGamerz exactly they don't fail at all, there's no chance of it failing.
@@W-meme Hell yeah get a bundle from framechasers.
13600k is a good cpu
Intel is kicking the can down the road.
What about cpu's soldered on the mb?
well duh because the proper fix would be both fixing the problem with the motherboard bios to prevent it from happening again and then replacing the cpu's which were damaged by the old bad bios's plain and simple you can fix the damage that's already done it's done and permanent
The road to nowhere
@@darkkingastos4369 oh common just buy one and take a chance with em 🤪🤪🤪
Looking like that road is a short dead-end.
This is amazing advertising for AMD, and all AMD had to do was nothing, marvellous.
AMD did a lot - in the engineering department however.
Intel on the other hand has always been working in the marketing department.
@@herobrinecyberdemon8104and behind the scenes shenengians to prevent sales of AMD cpus
They had to not suck. Which they did a fairly good job of.
That recall they're doing right now is masterclass trolling!
I feel AMD is not good at picking up opportunities, Intel and nvidia are constantly providing AMD opportunities but AMD doesn't try to take the lead
Intel aren't doing a recall because they have no equivalent to replace them with. Regardless, they're still selling them.
@burakozc3079 only 1 large company that has bought 8 million already has 2 million failures, I'm assuming based on this, it's going to easily be a 10 MILLION + cpu recall
ouch, that's gonna be bad
@@charleswidmore5458 🍿
intel never cared for their defective products. they were too big to care.
The fact they are trying their best to avoid a recall speaks volumes for why their company has fallen into hard times.
They no longer care about reputation, image or respect to consumers.
A recall will take at least a year.
They've got no choice but to delay failures
@@myne00 They could do a partial recall where they replace the entire bad batch(s) (we aren't sure how many batches are bad yet) with known tested good processors. That would not take long at all.
That is why Intel use 'Oxidation/Microcose' instead of 'Overheating Accumulated Defective Damaging'
Huh?
Of course the company is going to try to fix the problem before a recall. What are you talking about? That's like business 101.
Falling into hard times? Huh? Do you see how many people were using these CPUs? Intel still dominates the market. The 137k and 149k are the best CPUs for the price. Both processors got high marks from GN, hardware unboxed and many other people.
Reputation? Intel has earned good will over decades. Some people are still using chips that are 10 years old. Do you have any idea how much money they've saved over the last 10 years going with Intel, and you think they're just going to jump ship like rats over one issue that will eventually get solved? Lmfao...
It would take more than this to ruin their reputation with me. To the contrary, AMD sucked for so long, they have years to go before earning the kind of reputation Intel has.
People like you that leave these comments never had any intention of running Intel, so you have no idea what other people are thinking. You're also clueless, and just making things up.
@@DingleBerryschnapps Well now we know what Intel fanbois think ... thanks for sharing! AMD has far more than earned their reputation back ... this is obvious to everyone except the most hardened fanbois.
We certainly do know what people are thinking, because owners and companies that have been having these issues, along with outlets that are investigating this have been speaking up.
Intel is shuffling this under the rug as much as possible and only been addressing this at all because of the breadth and seriousness of the issue has been exposed all over the media -- their shareholders are who is important to them, this has been obvious for a looong time.
Getting i9 13900K was suppose to be my last upgrade,it looks like i will have to
upgrade again....this time with AMD.F**k you Intel.
You are unable to go in BIOS to put Intel values manually?
It literally takes 30 seconds to do and your CPU will be fine.
@@Intruder74 Why would you buy a CPU knowing it has problems but it will be okay if you change voltage etc. in BIOS? That is stupid to me I'm not buying anything like that it's ridiculous.
@@ThmsDouglas I'm talking to people who already own this CPU like myself. I notice day one this CPU is spiking too high with voltage and immediately went to BIOS to change everything to Intel specs. Had 0 crashes and i had this CPU now for 14 months. What you don't seem to understand is 50% of this problem is Motherboards fault, stock settings allow this CPU to spike way too high and pull way too much voltages it ever needs. Now lets go back to history since you obviously are lacking some info on this issue. This issue is not new. It has been with us since 9th generation of Intels CPU's. So according to your own statement everyone who bought Intel CPU since 9th gen, is stupid.
hope you somehow get your money back from them! This is getting criminal.
@@Joomluh12 I swear to God reading is not something you people are capable of. So i'm done with this conversation
Intel: Your money is ours already. You're not getting it back.
Rules of Acquisition: Once you have their money, you never give it back.
RIP Intel 13/14 gen owners resale value!
Ebay users will learn what "Silicon lottery" means.
There loss is my gain, 13600k for under 100 dollars soon.
Resale?! RIP the original owner! Intel down bad right now. 🤕
@@ChrisL-d4c Yeah they usually just chuck them in the trash after an upgrade.
@WaspMedia3D I don't really understand the fanaticism. I have a 14900kf and it was unstable out of the box, but after adjusting the ac/DC load line, it benchmarks excellently and at a level that matches the latest AMD chip (not the 9000). I fully expect the 9000 to kick my i9s ass when it comes out.
Not only am I not buying any Intel cpus, I’m also not buying their stock. Intel has lost its touch.
Intel manipulated AMD sells with market bribes over 20 years ago, thats why my last Intel was in the 90,s.
Igor’s Lab found evidence of FinFet device degradation which is even worst than the initial hypothesis of Electromigration. Every 13th & 14th gen will fail eventually even in idle.
It’s your last chance to take a short position on futures lol
@@tringuyen7519 I don't understand why they aren't suing Intel. If what they say is true, they might get a decent payoff; otherwise, they will face a defamation lawsuit.
I'd LOVE to see how that plays out :)
Next intel release the new brand ooo baby i need to buy it now :D.. ppl are so wierd saying never and we still do it we all know it ..
In 2023 I switched to AMD after 25 years of sticking to Intel ! it can be one the best decision I have ever made 😄
I did Intel 386 and 586, then AMD K6-2 and Athlon, then Intel SandyBridge, now AMD Zen4 Phoenix-Point. I’m glad I did AMD recently! Their 780M igpu is also awesome. I’ve surprisingly been at 50/50 Intel v AMD cpus for the last 40 years!
I switched over years ago, still using a 3800x and very happy with my decision. Even went to AMD Gpu with a 7800x. Im a happy 4k gamer.
@fetus2280 never had crash yet? With amd?
@@mikeree8543 Nope. I had a bunk set of memory sticks cause problems, other than that nope. Everything runs perfectly fine. Now I had USB weirdness when first adopted this platform, but so did everyone else, that was years ago now.
@@hdthor my Athlon caught fire in the socket lol. literal flames
I am straight up afraid of Intel now and will always have this lingering doubt about their CPUs going forward.
Team AMD forever at this point.
Ok but I was straight up afraid of AMD for years after 2 separate releases of chips caught fire in the socket. I went with Intel for 20+ years and they finally have a problem. Being a fanboy is stupid. You should be "Team AMD until they f me over then back to intel".
Team AMD till they fuck up too. That type of thinking is what lead Intel to this level of quality.
Never say "forever", but definitely... pay attention to things. The ramping power use of Intel chips fighting desperately to stay ahead of AMD in benchmarks has been a growing problem, and really kind of foreshadowed this, in hindsight.
No no no, it's just a matter of time until AMD f*cked up too. The best practice is to always wait for unbiased reviews. GN and HWU is good place to start.
Welcome to Team Red, trust we don’t rust 🤣
Intel cpus have rust in them now😂
At least it's memory safe
@@myne00
Ironically, one of the leading theories for what the oxidation is impacting is the memory/cache subsystem
@@enilenis well if your buying the right light bulb it should last 10 yrs or more unless you have it on all the time which should last around 5-6 years. which is around 3-7 cpu release cycles. So quite literally a lightbulb is better investment than intel CPUs now
in intel we rust.
Rusty-lake ;)
Cause they had oxidation too. And voltage issues over time will kill electronics of course.
@@manitoba-op4jxThis doesn't happen unless you get close-ish to the oxide breakdown voltage. 1.5v generally doesn't do that unless the oxide layer is improperly formed. This is electron migration damage. Same thing that's been observed for over a decade at this point.
@@LiveType Ага только проблема в травлении кремниевых пластин и они деградируют в 10 раз быстрее
that was a seperate issue, read the article again.
@@bubalom the issue is overvolting from the microcode, it's the motherboard bios tht's the issue.
Everyone is going AMD, it’s a beautiful thing
YOu do not want an AMD monopoly. Also if AMD sees there are no repercussions or recalls then what is to stop them from doing the same>?
Amd will become new Intel in few weeks if there is no competition.
Not me, my i9 12900k is working beautifully!!! So glad I went with this CPU!
@@ral8031 The 12900k is not impacted. Different manufacturing and iO controller
@@ral8031I may go back and buy one!
It's like buying a car for many times more than the competition because it was 10% faster than others in the tests, losing the fuel tank, the steering, the seat, the brakes failing and the air conditioning spitting fire after a few hours of driving - and then saying to yourself: “Yeah, but other cars aren't that fast either” :D
ROFL
I got a 5800x3D. Best decision I ever made!
Running a i5 4670K here, and for the first time in my life, I've come into a windfall. So now I will be building my first new pc. My last AMD system was 2nd hand Athlon XP1800, but after watching this crap show unfold, I'll be going AM5 and 7800X3D.
Daaaang you held on forever. I was on my 4670k @ 4.7GHz and very nearly jumped on a 5820k, nearly lured into Intels overpriced HEDT just for more threads because the 4770k/4790k prices held solid at ridiculous prices so I eventually landed on the R5 3600 which has about the same ST performance as my 4670k but mindblowing MT improvement. Then along came a deal on the 5800X3D which I have no intention of replacing and find Intels predicament hilarious.
Why not just get a 9800x3d, it's releasing in a few months anyways
9800x3D if you're a gamer, 9950x3D if you're both. Seeing how long you're holding on to your PC, I think the cost is more than justifiable.
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Unless you're buying a GPU that costs more than the rest of your system combined, you most likely won't see a substantial performance increase from a 9000 series over a fast CPU from a few years ago. It makes plenty of sense not to buy the latest and greatest.
Worst decision.
Buy Ryzen 9 non XD version.
Because it will usefull for other works too not gaming only
I think non-damaged CPUs probably need new microcode to cap the voltages without an extreme performance hit and damaged CPUs probably need that PLUS a nerfed performance profile to simply continue functioning.
I think they (purposely, but now calling it erroneous) put behavior in the microcode which deliberately disobeys orders set by the user and the BIOS to make its own decisions on when to boost clocks and voltages and when to pull them back.
I think their next option will be to try offering aggressive rebates to people and make getting to a replacement more difficult and tedious than trying to cancel cable. They won't have the physical capacity to replace all CPUs, and can't have non-faulty stock for quite some time.
Phase 1: Pretend nothing is wrong
Phase 2: Acknowledge issue, stall as much as possible (We are currently here)
Phase 3: Cap as many functional CPUs, Nerf as many unstable CPUs as possible
Phase 4: Offer conditional rebates that end your warranty and opt you out of class action
Phase 5: Total meltdown
I've got a i9 14900k and what you said might be true, couse on the first boot, the processor was set at bios level with a 4096watts limit, and 500Amps. 6GHZ 2 cores, 5,8 all the others. 1,5/6v on the vcore...That lead to 100c almost every time. I started reverting that inmediatly after some testing, and the result is awesome. I can reach 5,5/5,6ghz pcores, and 4,3ghz on ecores, at 0,98/1,05v, with 77c beein the most high temperature that iv'got, at 307amps and 180w turbo boost. (256PL2) So yes, this processors are really unlocked, and anyone who has one is in danger if they dont know about this, or about overclock... if you dont check this things that i talk about that cpu is far from good out of the box
No way in hell will Intel recall these chips.
No way in hell will Intel sell next generation's chips with 2 straight generations of failed chips. We may be seeing a drastic reduction in Intel as a company. They're BLEEDING.
They might sink the company replacing all those consumer CPUs.
Depends if European Court gets involved they will have too, They made apple change the lightening cable, and are more on the side of the consumer
@@boltonianmax6519we can only hope...
If there's a manufacturing defect they'll either relent to customer pressure or face damaging law suits. There's likely a swarm of lawyers forming even now ready to take a big bite out of INTEL.
All the actions Intel are taking are the actions of a company who has decided it’s likely more profitable to defend a class action lawsuit than deal with a recall. They’re gonna dig their heels in, despite the evidence it’s a faulty product.
Me with my old overheating i7 3770: "I've never been in such peace ✌️"
can 4770K Bros join?
-Glances over to the i7-875k Asus Maximus III Extreme R9 290 rig in the corner- They aren't talking about you my guy you're still good.
I have 3770k and rx 6600 and DDR3 16gb ram running on 2400mhz but still my game is stuttering in apex . Found out my cpu is cooking at 94c @4.6ghz 1.27 volt
@@dr.noscopegaming630 As others have pointed out, 94c is rather high. Your voltage isn't too bad so maybe try down clocking to 4.5ghz and see what it does as far as temp. It should be stable and if the temps improve then you can try slightly undervolting it for even better temps. I currently have the same CPU as my daily driver and have it set to an overclock of a little above 4.3ghz with 1.24v max and during stress testing it hits around 75c and never goes above 80c. I also run an overclock on the baseclock from 100 to 106 for a slight nudge in IPC gains. My RAM can't hit the advertised 2,400mhz which was disappointing but it is because I am running four sticks for 32GB. Two sticks will always be more stable and run at higher specs than using all four dimms.
I am also using an rx 6600 and that 8gb of video memory gives a lot of life to older titles which I can easily play at 4k@60fps. The one thing that has helped a lot with keeping me using this system is an updated bios for the mobo that allows me to install the OS on an nvme drive through a pcie slot which is much better than the two native sata3 ports available on the board. Even on pcie-3 I can get 2GB/s read and write on a gen4 nvme drive.
Also worth noting, assuming I am correct that is, I believe the 3rd gen Intel chips were the first gen to use thermal paste for the heatspreader which is fine when not pushing the chips to their limits. Once you reach a certain threshold of frequency you will need to start pushing a lot more voltage for relatively little gains other than generating more heat. My CPU hits a wall at around 4.3ghz and once I start adding voltage the temp goes up faster than relative frequency which is why I settled on the 4.3 OC. Also worth noting is that I bought the mobo, CPU, and RAM a couple years ago used for $120 total. So far I have been impressed with the performance considering its age and the fact that I can play games at 4k@60fps while watching youtube on a 2nd monitor with the iGPU is a bonus considering these things only have four cores.
my i7 3930k is fine and no overheating at 4.4ghz
This time it’s not clickbait
if intel thinks they can sell arrow lake with that shitty case, i think they'll get a long nose
It's mostly an Intel fabs issue if I am right. AMD is wise to have their CPUs made by TSMC. If Arrow Lake is confirmed to be manufactured by TSMC, maybe it's good enough to be trusted.
@@kuronoch.1441 if people switch to amd why would they go back to intel again that doesn't give them serviice
@@8bitbender495 If Intel replies with a new generation of excellent parts, I'm sure plenty of people would just default to "we fear change" and buy them up like candy.
@@auturgicflosculator2183 Nvidia fuck me badly years ago with his Linux team not doing a shit. Never ever again I would buy anything from them, I would love to kick the head of leather jacket man for those days of ruining my job. I bet many many Intel users let down by this cpu burn who have to buy again a new computer to replace their 2-3 years old PC, would not buy any Intel product again. Just mess somebody´s time and hard earn money and you would have an enemy forever.
I buy whatever I think it is the best for me,not a fanboy of this or that. I do not buy computers for 10% more frames in GTA5,those are my tools to earn money.
Wait... I bought a 13900k because I thought that it was the best I could find and now you're saying that not only I have a cpu that is flawed by design but also the producer won't do anything to replace it?
Products liability is something enforced by suing, not companies acting human. And to avoid liability, companies diagnose to a legal convenience standard, not an objectively true standard.
That's nice of Intel to admit it, UK users now have a 6 year free warranty because they are defective, all you need to do is prove you bought the CPU prior to mitigation and you are gravy 1st October 2015 Consumer Rights Act.
Is there the possibility of a class action lawsuit?
Lol thats crazy its just like what a 800 dollar cpu or smth?
@@calvitocalvon1711 for each CPU, yeah.
The man-hours of labour, and effectively higher costs, lost on continually degrading hardware by virtue of a known and (quite possibly) maliciously obscured design flaw tho? Big corporations (high-end consumer CPUs are often used as server CPUs if expensive Xeon/EPYC-exclusive aren't needed, they've suffered hardware failure too) have gone to court for way, waaaaay less than what Intel has pulled on its clients here, pulling in the smaller contractors, freelancers, home consumers, etc would be just a nice bonus if the affected decide to pile up when lawyering.
Honestly? Intel needs to recall the entire affected line-up and figure a way to send out the 12th gen equivalent to whatever CPU was RMA-ed, if they hope to make it out of this without leaving AMD in an honestly better position than their own when AMD was barely hanging by the PS4 APU's threads back in the early 2010s (and even then, their reputation is already gone to dust now, they really should have just released desktop Meteor Lake as their 14th gen, underwhelming as it might have been).
@@calvitocalvon1711 i spent 8 mnths and lots of money trying to fix my 13900k only to learn it was actually defective from the factory. I find you stupid af by the way, just to make that clear.
I don't think so. Maybe only big company that uses Intel want the compensation. But most Intel customers still proud to use Intel processor although the processor die. Many Intel customers denied these problem, although Intel already admitted.
You'll probably get 35 cents back if Intel pays up😂
Even if intel recalls all the chips and return customers money what are people supposed to do already having invested on the platform? Will motherboard manufacturers accept a free exchange for a AM5 board? What would I do with ddr4 memory that isn't compatible with ryzen now?
To me the absolute worst part is they had a process that was not doing this but they had to boost the clocks even higher with very very marginal gain add in more ecores that the greater majority of people were never going to notice the existence of and shrink parts on the node and we have problems. I feel bad for my peers that bit the bullet the last couple years and replaced their 12700's with 13700 or 14700 chips I got lucky that other priorities took over so CPU was off the shopping list and that saved me.
It is what happens when you invest in a dead platform... people didn't know it was already dead on launch.
Why would anyone replace a working 12th gen chip with a 13th or 14th gen? You need to wait at least about 5 years before any upgrade has a noticeable affect on daily use .
@@Tugela60 Because some of us just like upgrading to the next big thing.
@@ThmsDouglas You are just wasting money doing that.
@@Tugela60 It's their money, and they presumably gain enjoyment, or at least learn the useful lesson that money does not buy happiness.
It's worrying how intel is dealing with this. Always felt that the 13th gen was pushed too far to keep ahead of amd and it hits them back in the face.
If the microcode 'fix' introduces any performance deterioration you're just stuck with a 13100 cpu with a huge price tag. Unacceptable.
@@enilenisthey... already kinda have a drop-in replacement designed, though? 12th gen CPUs aren't seemingly affected here.
Sure, they aren't as powerful as their 13th/14th gen kin, but they're not crippled like it and won't have the same performance drop that seems to be coming to keep 13th/14th gen from frying itself.
@@enilenis Intel is supplier to many governments, I guess they'll get help to stay afloat if they go broke over this. They make server CPUs and a bunch of other stuff as well, but it would put a sizeable dent into their funds for sure.
But the future seems bleak for intel.
Why? Many Intel customers still denied this problem although Intel already admitted. They proud using Intel.
I'm currently running my 13900k at 4.7Ghz due to crashes in some games. Misarable
I'm using it at 500 MHz for safety
If it's degraded, RMA it now.
Damn.. Switch to AMD buddy. I'm happily running my R5 7600X at 5.4 GHz on around 1.2-1.3V and CPU never goes beyond 60 degrees Celsius. Note: CPU is not overclocked, but AMD boost is on.
What should we do ??
@@yesdadbut960 Limit the voltage supplied to CPU, underclock it, turn off XMP, and make a more aggressive fan curve to improve cooling. This should help extend life of the CPU in short term. In long term, your CPU is screwed regardless of what you do.
13900k with 360 AIO. 5 months, 0 crashes. Updated my ASUS bios from 1102 to 1503 3 days ago. Now its on performance profile with 307A limiter and PL1/2 253W. Stress test with CPU-Z is 90 C peak. Passed all tests in Intel PDT. Idle temps between 29-34 wth ambient temp 25 C. Its stable.
anyone who thought a software update would fix physical damage to their cpu SHOULD NOT be using a computer.
It isn’t the average consumer’s responsibility to know the specifics behind these issues.
Do Intel and Boing share same owners?
Black Rock, Vanguard
Heard of these?
@@herobrinecyberdemon8104Heard of them too many times i heard that they are also one of the greediest companies alive two big cults too.
So glad I got a 7800X3D for my latest build. Sticking to AMD CPU + NVIDIA GPU going forward.
Always team red for CPU, team Green for GPU.
Samething I did...... have 4090.
Same but with a 7950X3D
CPUs I had were
i7 4770K (4C/8T)
i7 5960X (8C/16T) > Best investment tbh
i7 10700K (8C/16T) > Because the previous CPU died, otherwise i'd have skipped that.
R9 7950X3D (16/32T) > Current best investment tbh
hindsight op. eventually AMD will have another issue, Nvidia will have a major issue, they're all corporations and fanboying them is CRINGE AF
@@mehck-gk9yn good take. brand allegiance is the worst thing to have when it comes to buying tech
And yet AMD will get more bad press for delaying Ryzen 9000 a few weeks.
The opposite infact because Intel screwed up by not actually addressing the issue early. AMD caught some issue before actually publicly releasing the cpu, this makes no one dissatisfied with their product. Also the delay isn't that long. This in turn will make amd look like a better cpu maker because their actually care about delivering a good quality experience product whereas Intel rushes out whatever thing they come up with.
Maybe in the past but I don't think they will now I actually think they will get praise.
I don't think a short delay will hurt them. In a few weeks no one remember the delay anymore.
It looks to me that it's a marketing strategy by AMD, with what they did being transparent and all by delaying the Ryzen 9000s due to it not "reaching it's specs" is showing the public that they can be trusted to not screw them of their money.
This will put more pressure on Intel to even be more transparent with their isssues but since AMD probably already know that the issue is more complex than what Intel is trying to say then Intel is forced to choose bad options by either lying and not telling the whole truth or by being honest and letting the public know how much big of a problem they have in their hands either way it's a lose-lose situation.
By delaying the products, AMD is basically keeping the spotlight on both company and who doesn't want the spotlight right now? Intel.
Edit:
And by the way, I'll just predict it now that AMD will release their products when Intel reports that "they found the solution" or "decided to recall their products" this would in turn remove the spotlight from Intel and focus it on AMD making the public ignore Intel's report which will basically keep their status being bad stick a little bit longer because most people wouldn't hear or read their report as the news will be overwhelmed by the AMD product launch. Pretty ruthless of AMD if that's what they're doing.
If anything, this favors AMD in every way, the Microcode patch will lower the voltage which will most likely come with a performance reduction, meaning that compared to the new Ryzen 9000 series they will seem faster than before
Intel fanboys are still defending intel
I'm in the middle of a new build. I was going to use the intel i5 13600K. Already installed it on the motherboard. Waiting on a GPU. At this point I'm going with a new AMD CPU and motherboard. Not going to even bother to fire it up.
smart
You could get a 12th gen if you don't mind a little less CPU power (or more if you buy up to a 12700k or better) and saving the money on the mobo.
But, yeah, buy AM5, 9000 got delayed but that's already a much better sign than whatever Intel's doing
@@Derfderk The irony is that AMD's delay is still shorter than having to go through the RMA process with a vendor or the manufacturer. The bigger disappointment for the 9000 series is not having new motherboards although I am not sure what would be updated from the current ones already available.
If you've already completed your build it only makes sense to 'fire it up'. There haven't been any i5-13600K incidents reported at present, - or simply return your i5 processor for a refund.
@@marke5335 The 13600k are effected just like all the rest of the raptor lake ones. Why would I fire it up knowing its got a 50% chance of failing? And intel is denying refunds right not. So that is not an option.
lol my cheap lil R5 5600 has been nothing short of reliable, even with a perpetual OC of 4.8GHz all-core
I still have an R9 3900x. Parts have blown up around it, but it's kept on trucking since I bought it in 2019. The PSU shorted out, the AIO died, the graphics card played out, but that little AMD cpu has survived. I'll be retiring it soon since it doesn't have the productivity or gaming prowess to keep up with my demands these days, but it's served me well. I look forward to upgrading to a 7800x3d or a 9000 series chip come black friday, alongside the rest of my rig.
@@poweruppikawho9007 I'm also in the market for either a 5800x3D (just to be cheap & get a drop-in upgrade that'll actually improve gaming performance) or finally upgrade to a newer platform. That "was" going to be LGA1700, but even then I had only looked at getting a 12700K/13600K or 12900K/13700K. 14th "gen" was never even a consideration lol. However as things currently stand, I'd rather just stick with AMD & get a 7800x3D or 9000-series equivalent. I'd just need to proceed with my GPU upgrade first off, since my current 3060ti (which is OC'ed to the max just like my CPU haha) is beginning to fall short of the 1440p/144Hz target that I want with most titles. Sure, DLSS/FSR helps, but I'd like to just go ahead and get some extra VRAM while I'm not actually being held back to a crazy extent by only 8GB. So the choices I've considered are either the 4070 Super/Ti Super (or just regular Ti), or the RX 7900 GRE from AMD (one hell of a 16GB card for now less than $500 where I live)
The patch won't fix whats already broke, but it will stop cpus that AREN'T damaged yet from getting damaged. You have to stem the losses before dealing with the losses.
But will that degrade performance below box specs
@@sherrydowns4052 that's not known yet, it's just controlling voltage that goes to a specific circuit. My Ryzen 3700x has been undervolted since day 1, running 4.3 ghz all cores at all times, and is air cooled, has never seen a moment above 62C. You can;t fix something once it's gotten too hot and starts to break down, but if you can make it run cooler, you can still maintain the same level of performance.
It won't fix non damaged cpus it will just slow the rusting/oxidation down you can't stop rusting/oxidation magically like that. You need to physically clean them and solve the issue that caused the rust in the first place.
@@cin2110 the oxidation is internal to the silicon chip, theres nothing you can physically clean, it's process step in the manufacture of the wafer where the mistake happened.
They aren't even sure if that's the only cause of the problems (they probably know that it isn't, but won't admit it). Go watch Moore's Law is Dead video. The CPUs will probably still degrade, but slower.
Is Intel suffering like Boeing? Embracing R&D at the lowest common denominator? Customers are now feeling the enrichment of ESG and DEI policies? It can only get better and I am beginning to feel all warm and fuzzy inside as merit sizzles away in the engineering and QA sphere. So much love 💕😘.
Vote for Trump if you want merit to matter!
Never been more happy to own a 7800x3d 😂
They're stalling the recall. They are very well aware it's on it's way but if they delay this too long (Which isn't far away), they will bury themselves for the next 2 years.
AMD has just announced it's pause in 9000 series CPU's due to a potential issue, which is a good thing, no one wants a brand new component that already has debilitating problems.
i think my cpu 13700k was already damaged . when i run all p core my pc keep crush even browser also not open . games? no way not even open for a sec. when i off 4p core (p0, p2, p4, p5 ) from bios my pc run smoothly. i try to claim warranty but in my country where i buy the cpu they say intel deined it the shop send the cpu to china for replacement. intel china service center told that it's my fault i damage my cpu i can't claim warranty for forever. i don't even no how i damage it. so now i run my pc with 4p core and 8e core. i just upgrade my pc like 8month's and now i'm facing this. before i was happy amd user. now i regret .
I spent more money than I had to get a very highly rated cpu from intel years ago.
the board died and so I went to get a new board and found out they had gone to a new socket and the boards were no longer available.
then I found out the new socket was going to be replaced soon as well.
I was in a bind so I bought the cheapest cpu and board I could to get back up as fast as possible but they were both subpar.
2 cores with no hyper threading, but really cheap
I ran it for about 5 years and it got me by.
once that system was ready to upgrade I had spent quite a bit of time educating myself on the sockets, cpu classes and manufactures.
I decided to push the system for another year and buy an amd at the supposed very end of it's life cycle.
I figured the bugs had all been worked out by that point and whatever tricks they had learned to make it better had been incorporated into the chip.
I bought a 9 5900 and went from a 2 core dog that made my life miserable every day to a dream machine.
I am sorry to hear how they are trying to cheat you out of a replacement but at least you can still run it in limp mode for now.
you are going to have to decide if that will work for you long enough to see how things work out or if you need a faster system
there are intel chips that will fit that socket which should not have an issue but a lot of people will be looking for those soon.
or you could always look for a deal on a snappy amd board and cpu.
I would run some benchmarks on your system wuth the 4 cores and see how it compares. you might be surprised.
either way I feel for you and you are not alone. millions of people are gonna get bit by this. best of luck on whatever you decide either way
Okay, here's a potential temporary fix for folks who have the 14th gen CPU's affected. Maybe 13th as well. But before that, an explanation of what's basically happening in layman terms.
Update: Apparently I have to add this... closer to the top...
My 'temporary fix' is nothing permanent, nor is it meant to keep your performance the same while avoiding the issues that Intel needs to make right. It's ONLY to make it so that your CPU will keep operating until you can get something to replace it. Yes, this means that some of the results, will NOT be to your liking, likely.
Now back to our regular program...
---
Imagine the 'wiring' inside the CPU being like a rubber hose. Normally, there is only ever enough voltage going through that hose to keep it firm at most, but when voltages drop, so does the stiffness of the hose. This is 'normal'. What is not normal, is the increased fluctuations in the voltage going through the hose, resulting in it being stretched out more and more each time it happens. This makes it so that the minimum amount of voltage required to keep it stiff enough to allow a proper flow must happen. So the minimum voltage rises.
Now, I understand that some professionals in this field will look at this and go "That's not quite the right way to explain it." But, this is an attempt to get something 'close enough' for those who just aren't on that level with tech, okay?
Okay, so now the temporary fix. Technically, Intel is trying to implement it already with their microcode update, but basically they even admit their version of it is not going to help anyone with problems already showing up; and those without problems might still have them occur over longer periods of time anyways. My fix, hopefully solves that to some degree for those of you who need your computer to remain operating while you look for something to replace the parts, or get an RMA, etc. (And to be perfectly clear, this method is not going to keep you running at the same performance level as you expect from that CPU. You are nerfing it, hard. This is not to keep performance. This is to keep operating stable enough to use the rig you have. Sorry if it's not everyone's cup of tea.)
Essentially... you're gonna underclock your CPU, and RAM. Then, you're going to undervolt them as well until you find the point of instability, then raise it back up again until it's stable. Yeah, the older tech heads will probably know what I'm going on about here. Those of you who don't, welcome to the 2000's again. 1990's too to some extent. Essentially, you are making it so that even if the voltage spikes like Intel is trying to prevent, your spikes will only still be (Hopefully) within the safe margin. I.E. They don't stretch the hose. But the trick here is to find the golden zone so to speak, where the voltage is low enough to not do that, but also keep *most* of your performance available at the higher voltages. It's a pretty tricky balancing act, and if anyone out there is really good at this, you should make a video about it for those who aren't.
Next, you're gonna turn off absolutely all forms of hyperthreading. Your extra cores go bye bye. Not only are they a security risk today anyways, but they are also technically increasing the resources required by the CPU to operate. Removing this, will effectively both reduce your performance sadly, but also reduce the voltages required to operate at. Which also reduces your heat output. This is where you might be able to recover some performance by leveraging that lowered heat output.
Now, back to the Ram mentioned before. Long story short, Ram and CPU are connected in their voltage supply in a way where even though they are separated, each's own voltage will affect the other. So you are going to have to find a Goldilocks zone for this as well if you haven't already.
Finally, one last thing.
Microsoft's Windows settings. Go to the power settings, where you have the balanced, performance, maximum, etc settings to choose from. Enter the advanced setup and make your own setting. You're going to tell it to never go beyond 99% for the CPU's max, and allow it to reach 0% on the CPU's minimum. Every other setting is basically up to you, since it's going to affect things like battery life if in a laptop, or quality of videos and such otherwise. Most of you reading this won't really need to bother with any of the other settings. Just the one I mentioned. You can make your job easier if wanted, by choosing the max setting before hand and then modifying it into your own. This way you keep all the other settings the way you want them on max, but you are kneecapping your cpu on the windows side of things.
This is important, because this setting overrides basically anything in the Bios/UEFI. It's annoying as all heck, but also useful as all heck depending on the situation at hand. In your case with the 14th gen Intel chips, it's useful I think, if used right.
The 99% option is going to make it so that the CPU is never going to try to reach 100% utilization. This should effectively cap the possible spikes that occur. And frankly, this setting might be enough for some who have yet to experience enough of these spikes. But the prior stuff mentioned is there to also help make sure that even if spikes do still occur despite this setting change, they should be minimal beyond even what Intel is aiming for with their microcode update. (I think)
Ultmately, I have no way to test this myself, because I do not own anything 14th or even 13th gen. But based on what I know about getting other Intel and AMD products to operate stable under unique setup circumstances; I think this will help.
Again, anyone better suited to make a video that details this all, or even corrects some of it if any is useful at all; do so.
When 12th gen launched I was thinking anyone owning these CPUs must undervolt them to keep the power draw reasonable, and to avoid degradation. 13th and 14th gen will be left without comment. Of course once you undervolt these you'll find that your intel CPU has nothing to compete to the comparable AMD chip, once it loses its exclusive frequency.
Actually you want to do the same to Ryzen aswell, but anyway undervolting Ryzen comes usually with little loss to performance. As on top on everything AMD has to leave a nice amount of extra voltage to both their CPUs and GPUs to avoid more drama in the media sphere to be instigated by Intel and Nvidia, meaning you have a good room for improvement.
Great explanation! Thanks
I had undervolt, limit to 300 watts, also fixed cores, and my cpu failed in 5 months. 13900k stays in around 1.35 volts ideally for stable 5.5ghz and 4.3ghz on p and e cores.
All that write up is nonsense. It is not a fix, it's making your cpu an i5
My cpu was undervolted and still failed. I also watched voltage and it was in 1.28-1.35v range always.
Under spec in voltage and still destroyed. You writting this shit up is only making people comply with the bullsh. I limited to 262 on 2nd chip. You either run a chip as it is supposed to or let it fail and rma it.
Don't make cpu an i5
Also I had to turn off Multicore Enhancement in order to watt limit properly
@@Cod3_nam3 Apparently not everyone agree's, but that's fine. I realize it might not be the ultimate fix for everyone. It's just meant to keep things running, not fix Intel's F-up.
@@righteousone8454 So, you're really terrible attitude aside, I suggest you read again the part where I said " (And to be perfectly clear, this method is not going to keep you running at the same performance level as you expect from that CPU. You are nerfing it, hard. This is not to keep performance. This is to keep operating stable enough to use the rig you have. Sorry if it's not everyone's cup of tea.)"
I.E. It's not meant to keep you ahead of the races while avoiding the problems Intel should have never let be released. It's only to help people keep their system running until they can replace it. If they have to downgrade their i9 to an i7 or i7 to an i5, then so be it.
Now, unless you have something useful to say... go away. None of us need your attitude, and frankly, you're attitude would be a lot different if this were all in person; so can it.
me sittin' with my Ryzen 7 5800X3D which i upgraded from a i7 4790k and felt like i made tha best decision ever especially when DDR4 Ram is way cheaper now
AMD should offer a promo trade in to study the issue to avoid it themselves. Offer 7xxx series and a basic mobo. They'd gain a ton of loyal customers.
my 14gen even crash when I'm watching this video, it crashed 2 times.
My Uni simulation lab ordered 30 i9-14900 based laptops a week before this story broke...
Intel was honest about the oxidation and so on, so lets hope they weren't lying about laptop cpu's unaffected.
Ouch
Laptops unaffected
@@synen wrong. Those laptops with the 14900 are using the same silicon.
Not really, i'm using victus with i7 13700hx and the processor died after 5 month usage, thankfully there is hp adp for 2 years, and my motherboard replace with a new one
3:41 according to my knowledge, you have to overclock it yourself. They can't do that for you. How can they? They don't know what CPU you're using. A CPU is rated at a particular frequency for a reason, it's supposed to run at that frequency. Intel literally can't blame motherboard manufactures for something they frankly don't have much control over.
My i7-14700k has had instability issues since installation. Immediately noticed significantly reduced performance at the 4-8 core mark specifically when running background tasks. Crashes my system like once a day now and I wish I could go back and swap to the 7800X3D.
More of a reason why going with amd is a better choice now (im not fanboy of any company) despite them being weaker for now until there new series drops i think will still be a smarter move to do.
My 13900k is fine because when I built my machine I adjusted the BIOS to lock the voltage to 1.35v max. Never had any issues
Smart, but we'll see. This issue isn't just voltage relate, but also manufacturing related.
@@astanisystems Hopefully I wont have oxidation issues... but as far as voltage, I just didn't like what I was seeing it do out of the box.
@@DaftDrunk24 Hopefully. I was gonna buy i9-14900K but went with AMD because it was cheaper and better deal for my needs. I'm now glad I didn't buy it. Almost everyone I know has went with AMD recently.
@@astanisystems Yeah, honestly AMD is the way to go lately for CPUs. GPUs I prefer Nvidia
@@DaftDrunk24 Nvidia makes the best overall GPUs, but AMD still holds better value. I went with Sapphire Nitro+ RX7800 XT for my build and I can throw everything at it without a problem, and that's at 2K 155Hz. So far I ran every game I downloaded on Ultra/Very High/Maximum. The only part where this card struggled a bit was ray tracing on High, where I saw a dip in FPS, but that's to be expected. I didn't buy this card for RT anyways, I bought it because it too was a better deal. 100 euros more and I could've gotten RX7900 GRE, but shipping was also 30 euros, and I would have to wait a whole month for the card at least.
my guy you got like one of the most memorable voice. i swear ive heard this voice in so many tech news reports.
If you have a CPU that is already unstable/degraded the fix that is coming won't help you what you need is an RMA as Intel will need to replace it now the issue is that according to Wendell Intel was denying RMA for these CPU's from the people that he talked to in the Enterprise side before he and Steve released their video now hopefully for the general consumers that won't be an issue but who knows what Intel would do at this point.
"General consumers" will get their RMAs done through the distributors and retailers they purchased their CPUs from, while enterprises work more directly with Intel themselves. So the general customers are completely left to rely on their retailers fulfilling their RMAs. As if I was a retailer I'd also stall the rebates - and that's only because I'd be expecting Intel themselves to not recognize replacements I've made. Remember, different retailers have their own service and support policies, on top of terms of contracts with distributors.
Ok, what exactly settings shoud be adjusted to prevent problem on "fresh and new" processor? Nobody really reveal what setting affect on degradation.
If Intel's microcode patch limits the voltage spikes then that should fix the issue, it won't repair damaged cpus.
No it will keep your CPU from being damaged but will not fix the issue.
only way to fix the issue is to.manually lower down the ratio and voltage in the bios which work btw i tested the voltage and others on youtube did as well but for people that has no computer knowledge .gg?
@@ThmsDouglas probably the issue is an incorrect compromise, I'm not a chip designer but I would imagine it's a whole bag of compromises to bring it into an operational zone, if it eliminates damage then job done
@@madlinkers8595any advice for a guide for a non tech person? I have an MSI mobo and 13900k, I can't find where to set the new limits in the BIOS.
I'd like to understand what "damaged forever" means. I experienced some BSOD with my i9-13900KF, and couldn't quite figure out what was causing them.
I did have BSOD when I used AMD too, and in both cases I didn't think something was particularly off, we're talking about Windows after all.
Then there's this news about this Intel issue, so I started to pay attention. I did update the BIOS today with the microcode fix. But still, what I don't understand is in what way the CPU is damaged forever. Honestly, if I wouldn't have heard of this voltage issue I would have kept using my PC as nothing had happened. In fact, since the few BSOD I had with the Intel (around 6-8 since last year), I didn't have any other issue with the PC performances, and I do heavy 3D graphics (stills, and animation). So, not sure what to make of this...
And now Moore's Law Is Dead's video is up saying that it could also affect Intel's next gen. Yeah...
Since they admitted they know they have a problem now and still refuse to honor their warranties can we expect a class action lawsuit any time soon?
Think positive.
You can still use it for
frying eggs or as a paperweight
I9-14900K 7GHz OC. No cooler. Faster egg cooking than direct sunbeam throughout a sun lens
I saw the next question was "what makes you think it doesnt affect mobile (laptop) customers" .. and you skipped over this question but its one I'd like answered. My brand new 13th gen i9 4060 laptop is still in the box waiting for this answer. I've had it almost 6 weeks. I'd like to game with it. Meanwhile I continue gaming & browsing using my THIRD gen workhorse. Oh my gosh.
Man, this is just sad. At least 50% of all their i7s and i9s are bad. That's, what, 25% of the entire 14th gen stock, once you factor in the i5s and i3s. Even if you assume they made a lot more of those, you're still looking at probably 15-20% of all 14th gen cpus being defective.
And personally, I'm wondering if this is an architecture issue, and that it would effect the lower end chips too, if they were given similar amounts of power.
It's definitely an "architecture issue", as the product was designed to be pushed to the absolute limit. Obviously the incompetent fools in Intel's R&D didn't know exactly where the limit was, on top of the already stupid performance goal. Even though the issue is technically in the microcode - however with the new microcode performance will tank and we will learn 13th gen isn't capable of taking on Ryzen 7000 (after all the microcode updates, obviously the first patch won't fix it).
The i9s and i7s are the most expensive and thus profitable part of the lineup, so for intel it will be more than 25% of the CPUs they've sold in RMA expenses. The lower models are likely more stable as they don't need that high voltage to sustain their already lower than the i9 clocks (both cores and frequency require power) even if we account the fact i5s and i3s are low bins it should still be in favor of the cheap SKUs. Still no reason to defend the idea of purchasing LGA 1700 system in the first place - intel only offers dead platform that lack an upgrade path, it's historically this way as people fight over for i7s (and now i9s) to upgrade their boards.
Sounds like a class-action lawsuit is on the way! Short Intel stock!
Never. Many Intel customers still denied these problem, although Intel already admitted. They proud to use dying processor.
The government should intervene for a recall for all chips regardless if its affected or not. They are knowingly selling defective cpus and they effectively dont know whats causing the issue. This is just dishonest.
I think I dodged a bullet with my 7900X.
Same, sitting here with my Ryzen 5800x just laughing at Intel's incompetence, also glad I swapped to Linux because Windows seems to be falling down the same pit
Cant Wait for Steve to respond.
Yea and nivideas connector is 100% safe and dont cause the melting... it's almost likely they are layz engineering these things and pushing the limits too much.... who would have thought that 🤔
Welp, 13th I7 here. Bought a pre-built from microcenter with extended 2yr warranty last year. I guess I'm making a trip there soon huh? (Any advice is appreciated)
All 13th and 14th gen CPUs are already damaged (to some extent) since they already admitted there were exposing them to too high voltage, and a microcode update will not fix existing damage, just future damage.
Technically the MBs were exposing them to excessive voltages. Intel are to blame in allowing manufacturers to exceed safe limits, but it is the manufacturers who were doing that so their MBs would look good in benchmark comparisons.
@@burakozc3079 Just because something is possible does not mean it is ok to do it. Intel has no control over how MB vendors design or operate their boards. The CPU has an operational capability, but that is not the spec it should be operated at. The MB vendors are expected to be responsible in their design, not push everything to the max. Obviously that is what the buyers want and demand, but it is still inappropriate use.
For example, you can buy a car that has an engine that physically might be able push a car to 300 mph, but that does not mean the car designer should make a car that runs at 300 mph routinely. Obviously that will drastically shorten the engine lifetime.
Remember, Intel does not warranty overclocked processors, and every single one of these are being overclocked out the box by the MB vendor. If they do a RMA, most times it is out of goodwill, not because they have to.
All of them are damaged? Like I5-13400 is damaged too?
@@scp--wc9zv There's less data available on lower end SKUs at the moment, but there are some initial signs that the issues exist across all 13th and 14th gen CPUs.
@@auturgicflosculator2183 so Intel exposed their 13th and 14th gen cpus to high voltages and damaged them? Would undervolting fix the problem?
Agreed! I have been dealing with this since beginning of this year extensively. When CPU starts crashing it's gone. Bios will remedy to some extend, at first looking promising but you will start limiting it in bios pretty soon. Atm my CPU 13900k is "stable" only at 5ghz max (limited in bios). it's going back in a day or two for RMA.
This is the result if you are so drunk with the glory of the past that you forget to innovate, when there are competitors who offer better products, you are even far behind your competitors
Intel gotta do a CPU recall. They should be grateful that they're intel, not amd and that they can bounce back their reputation possibly.
If amd pulled anywhere close to this type of bs they would be cooked
this is a do or die moment for Intel
I don't understand people that buy Intel CPUs. Since Ryzen 3000 there is literally no reason to buy Intel. Just stop.
There's definitely a reason to have competition between x86 processor makers. Since Cyrix isn't really an option and I haven't seen or heard of any other licenses being issued lately it's hard to stop Intel entirely.
You are forgetting that the most series before that was unstable for most professionals.
But after this fiasco, Intel will lose market dominance along with trust. They failed to compete with Ryzen for the past 5 or so years. I also think they will not reimburse 13 and 14th gen owners. It will take at least 2 generations of sockets for them to recover from this.
Intel give a lot of nice sounding non answers and ducks questions like a drunk falls down.
Vex and Gamer Meld are like the Nuxanor of the tech industry.
Lawsuits coming for sure.
Well my 1.5 years old i5 13500 does not go over 1.243V. So no weird voltage behavior there. Its still alive and kicking with no issues.
I believe the issue is with i7 and i9. Your i5 should be safe. Should be.
@@JamieStuff No, it starts with I5 13600k
That's rebranded alder lake tho not raptor lake and raptor lake refresh (your cpu is intel 12th gen not 13th gen). The one who getting the issue is raptor lake and raptor lake refresh (13th and 14th gen) starting from 13600k to 14900ks
@@blin0691 No the 13400 is rebranded Alder lake. The 13500 is Raptor lake and basicly just a 13600 with lower cloks it has same aamount of cores.
*with a huge slathering of sarcasm* "OH... no. 13th and 14th Intel chips are firing themselves, whatever shall I do."
Oh, I don't know... bought AMD, because it was affordable.
This was a common issue when overclocking back in the 90s, before CPUs had things like overvoltage and thermal protection. You’d see overclocked CPUs needing more and more voltage to remain stable at a given clock speed. The root cause is electromigration, and it never gets better. Once it starts, the CPU will relentlessly degrade over time, eventually requiring ridiculous voltage to remain stable even when idle.
There’s actually talk of oxidation
Are you trying to fly? waving your arms so wildly, come on man
good evening, Gen-13 processors have been produced for a long time, why have people just noticed the problem?
If your game crashes once a week, people usually dismiss it as a Windows problem. It doesn't stop there though. Over the next few months, crashes become gradually more frequent to the point that you can't ignore it anymore. That's why it takes some time before anyone suspects it is a hardware issue.
Didn't you hear? Intel JUST "NOTICED" THE PROBLEM.
@@syrupybrandy2788 merci pour cet éclaircissement 👍
@@syrupybrandy2788 just one thing, if I understood correctly the symptoms of a faulty processor are crashes in games I have also seen videos on UA-cam where the PC freezes on startup and intermittent blue screens; it's really a big disappointment from a company like Intel
@@herobrinecyberdemon8104 I remember AMD had a similar problem with their Ryzen 5000 processors and the problem was fixed with a bios update.
Now the entire used market will be filled with these damaged 13 and 14 gen intel cpus which will be sold as 10/10 and barely used cpus.
Intel rushing out crap, you can run the cpu at crippled state. 🤫
How to know if CPU is damaged?
@@ykingmjgaming i mean in a synthetic way
@can anyone sue intel for this fiasco
Never. Many Intel customers still denied these problem, although Intel already admitted. They proud to use dying processor.
My i9 12900k is working beautifully!!! So glad I went with this CPU!
spam
im kinda a amd fan myself.
😎
I remember back in the day when the Pentium 60 came out, I had to get it replaced due to the "floating point" error. Intel tried their best to sweep that whole scene under the rug and it sounds like they're being a bit shady here as well.
I think it means scam in the title
This patch is to hopefully prevent degradation. Further degradation in already damaged chips. You cannot reverse existing damage. Perhaps in 50-80 years this sort of thing will be fixable with nanites, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Asus has released a bios update micrcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operates within intel spec dropped my vcore to 1.341 in bios. If you already have degradation RMA
Although AMD also have had issues, I'm sticking to AMD for the near future at best. Running a R7 3700X for 4 yrs smoothly I build myself and I'm happy. This Intel move is not in the best interest of their so customer-base. They forget that the CPU prices are not comparable to a leaf of bread, people have to work hard to pay their bills and safe money for a good computer. This isn't funny (understatement). Thanks for y'all UA-camrs chasing Intel to solve this. Cheers.
intel: BAD
amd: GOOD
😛
If things don't turn around for Intel or crash on AMD then give it 5 years for AMD to become dominant in more than just performance and they could swap places on that. NEVER assume a company has moral or compassion or any objective beyond making money. 100% private companies such as EVGA might mostly buck the trend, but the king almost always expects to above reproach and unlimited in license to act as they please.
@@kaseyboles30
@@kaseyboles30 AMD x86 and ARM CPUs vs Nvidia ARM CPUs? I wouldn't guarantee AMD the top spot 5 years from now.
@@auturgicflosculator2183 AMD owns am64, the 64bit isa used by windows and the default of most linux distros and thus most servers. If there was no cross licensing then AMD could still make chips valid for 95% of modern software not for mobile. With only 32bit on down Nvidia couldn't. So they could still build cpu's for am64 mainframes along the lines of Epyc. Windows could be adapted to work at straight boot to 64bit mode without the pitstop at 8088 mode.
I switched from and because the 5800x I owned got hot asf and had to keep it undervolted, a couple of bsod now and then. I guess I'll have to consider going back to amd again.
I am so happy that my minecraft server runs on an i5 13400, which is not affected. It runs 24/7 and would be pretty much dead if it was a 13600 or higher.
Intel is Mr.Beast, 13th/14th Gen is Kris.
Ava*
13/14 gen is Chandler