DAN WORRALL UNFILTERED | Working Audio Tools Podcast S3 E2
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Dan Worral speaks "off the record" about the audio industry, dispelling myths left, right and centre.
🎙 Dan's Original Music 🎙
spotify.link/dnKm0dflHDb
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Follow us, Paul Third and Ed Thorne, on our journey to becoming full-time audio mix engineers. Each week we either host a guest from the UA-cam and mixing community or compare and constructively critique mixes. In each episode, we demonstrate a “Featured Plugin” of the week with real audio from current mix sessions.
To find out more about us and to get in touch with your questions, check out the links below:
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💻 PAUL's WEBSITE: www.paulthird.com
💻 ED's WEBSITE: edthorne.com/
💻 IN-HOUSE MASTERING ENGINEER, Marcell: www.actdomake.com/
For business enquiries and collaborations please contact us at WorkingAudioTools@gmail.com
Thanks for watching & listening.
I like to think Dan just exists as a waveform.
With a sample rate of at least 384Hz!
Turns out that Dan Worral was the non-human intelligence that we've been hearing about...
Lol was thinking the same. What a legend he is though😊
Wait...are you suggesting that he exists as something else??? You guys really are out to rob me of all my illusions...aren't you?
Probably the very first 'being' created fully by A.I.
Thanks for having me guys, i enjoyed our little chat :)
Was great having you on. Thanks again for taking the time and sharing as much as you did 🤜🤛
I always new you would look like a green line in real life Dan
I hope you’re doing well Dan. I’m not going to elaborate but been thinking about you and wishing the best ❤
You're the voice of God my learned friend.
Too bad Dan has terminal TDS.
Dan Worrall is your sound engineer’s favorite sound engineer
🤓🤓
The Sensei of Sound.
@@WorkingAudioToolsthe waveform warden 🫡
Dan is looking great as always :)
Best looking waveform on youtube 😂
Well done for having him on your show ! @@WorkingAudioTools
I imagine dan worral being just an advanced ai that spontaneously manifested into existence after the 1.000.000th bs mixing tutorial on youtube was released
I don't think we've ever seen a youtuber being compared to AI so much haha
We've all been waiting for a Dan Worrall face reveal but the audio waveform when Dan talks IS the face reveal 😆
Dan is a being composed of pure audio.
Shhhh! Don't throw those truth bombs out there; keep the secret and the mystery alive.
Wait...are you saying that he isn't?
Simple audio man here: I see Dan Worral in the title - and I click!
Haha. That was the goal for us 🤣
@@WorkingAudioTools obviously. And as so often in mixing (and in life): simple, and employing a simple strategy , wins!
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
Wow, an unscrpited Dan Worral, well let me tell you I did a blind null test and it summed perfectly! Your not foolimg me Mr Worral.
🤣🔥
He’s software but yes non nullified
⭐️⭐️ WOW! As a veteran recording engineer from the 80’s and 90’s(with a brief return in the early 2010’s), this is one of the most ON THE MONEY discussions I’ve heard in a LONG time.
One of the very few times I’ve actually wanted to join in the conversation.
Nobody has generated a presentation wherein I wanted to so frequently jump in because I had that much to offer.
~Cheers Lads!
🤘😎🤘
Awesome. Glad you l enjoyed it.
Dan is the Chuck Norris of audio. When AI needs audio advice, it asks Dan 😎
Hahaha. Very true!
I heard if someone asks Dan to keep his voice down, he just blends in a phase flipped duplicate of the waveform.... in his throat, before it comes out his mouth.
@@michael.curtisI laughed way too hard on this. This is spot on.
@@huginnmuninn1130 haha thanks man!
Dan the living legend Worrall. I can count the times I have smashed the "like" button so fast.
Well as long as you smashed it here as well! 🤣
Usually loosing count is more enduring lol but yeea
Outstanding conversation. For a minute there I almost remembered I'm an audio engineer. (I gotta get out more.)
Dan Worrall is a sentient AI 🤖
🤣🤣
Ed asked if he was Morpheus in the episode. He didn’t deny it…
Thanks for offering up your "embarrassing perception fail" Paul. In return I'll offer up my own (arguably more embarrassing) perception fail. I've been working with ITB audio for more than 25 years. Eight or nine years ago I was working on a track in Ableton and at some point, decided that a top loop needed some EQing to better fit into the mix. Using the Ableton EQ-eight I set to work...I'll spare you the play by play. I was EQing that loop for over 10 minutes before something felt amiss. Like the EQ was broken. I then switched to only a high pass filter and swept up from 20Hz and an no matter how high I went the sound remained unchanged. It was then that I realized that the EQ was turned off the entire time and yet, I heard boost and cuts being made as I observed them on my screen (up to a certain amount of boost...when, at some point, I passed whatever that threshold is/was, the illusion was broken). I found the whole incident beyond embarrassing and thought my ears were broken or that, after all those years, I had just proven myself useless in terms of audio perception and, with that, as an audio manipulator wholesale.
It wasn't until a year or two later when I heard Fab Dupont describe the same experience that the weight of that failure was lifted from my shoulders because, I'd never heard of a fail that hard prior to my experience. The fact that it could happen to a guy like Fab reassured me that this was (if not ubiquitous) a far more commonplace experience in the audio world than I had initially assumed. I since termed the phenomenon "phantom EQing" (copyright pending).
Anyways, thanks for sharing. I think these sorts of failures need to be talked about more and just how much sway our eyes hold over our ears. The subtler the change, the more likely the effect. Your method of blind testing is a solid bulwark against such self deception and should become standard practice for anyone who works with audio in any serious or semi-serious capacity.
The Psychology behind audio is THE thing manufacturers and developers never want mentioned because they genuinely rely SOOO heavily on it. Quite depressing when you think too hard about it haha
@@WorkingAudioTools Yeah, it's not exactly in their interest if people realize that all it takes to make a mix sound different is a bit of conviction and a GUI that shows you that you did something. Of course, this only works with changes to the audio where you have a sort of audio-muscle-memory through endless repetition (such as knowing what specific frequencies sound like when you boost them 3-6dB with anything from a really narrow to wide Q...this embellishes the effect anyways, but your mind isn't going to magic drastic changes to the sound into existence for new spatial processors you're trying out for example).
Kind of depressing, maybe. But no more depressing than it is to be expected. At the end of the day we're still just talking about people who are looking to market and sell a product which, in turn, makes some/a lot of their behavior predictable though not an inevitability or foregone conclusion. But if you understand motivation and incentives...that's at least half the battle right there. 🙂
1.5 hr UA-cam video? For any other guest there’s no way I’d watch it all. But for Dan Worral I’m just gutted it’s so short.
Glad you found it enjoyable 🤓
Been wanting to see Dan and Paul together for ages.
Awesome interview! Great to hear Dan just speaking his mind. Great questions too fellas!
Thanks for watching 🤓
Amazing episode! Dan is one of my favorite people in the industry, I can't thank you guys enough!!
You’re very welcome. Stay tuned for more great guests and mix comparisons.
My introduction to recording was also using a Tascam 244 portastudio. When you think how far the skill/art, has developed, it's mindblowing! More power to your collective elbows!
I bought a Roland vs840 in 1998 the moment I got a job….i still don’t know what I’m doing
I think it was really the only way to start cutting your teeth back then
Dan Worrall is a living sense check; a gold version at that!
This chat made my day! Great stuff guys, Dan is awesome.
🤓🤓
Awesome! Glad we can entertain. Thanks for listening/watching.
Hey you guys! Just stopping by to show some love! Happy to see your podcast on YT and looking forward to all the new shows!
Thanks man, nice seeing you pop up. Don't be a stranger!!
Just found this channel. I love Dan's videos like crazy
Thanks for watching
Great video, great to hear more Dan but you are all fantastic! ❤
Thanks for watching 🤓
I really enjoyed the chat, guys. Thank you! Perception is so important. I sometimes choose a certain plugin just because the way it LOOKS suits the music, and therefore inspires me to dig in and make it happen. Stupid, but works for me.
Thanks for watching 🤓
Another great episode lads! Keep up the great work
Thanks. Stay tuned for more great guests and mix comparisons!
Dan is always a treat. If you would add pictures of the equipment or venues mentioned (LS6, The Boardwalk etc) it would enhance the podcast experience. ?
Awesome chat guys! Dan is an absolute legend
🤓🤓
Thanks. Yes, he’s a gentleman.
Thanks to all 3 of you for a very interesting podcast, the unmistakable voice (and knowledge) of Mr Dan Worrall resonates as always! It's great to listen to these programs to get your "Geek on" and always learn something.....I work in Audio Post mainly but still find the info useful and applicable in places.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great episode! Dan's perspective is always "spot-on" to me, really enjoyed, thanks!
Thanks for watching 🤓
Great chat! Thanks guys!
You’re welcome. Plenty more to come!
just discovered this guy Dan. wow. what a great wealth of information in a digestible format
Dan’s a thoroughly knowledgeable man!
Hey Dan happy to hear you again and you sounds healthy. That's good.
Health is always no.1 🤓
"If they're happy to pay your invoice, you've won". Thanks Dan.
Great podcast, nice to hear that I do a lot of things right. And learned a lot from it too. I like the way your brain let you listen to the same mix differently. I heard someone explain that your brain only can focus on three different instruments at once.
Awesome channel guys ❤
We hope it was interesting for you! Thanks for listening.
@@WorkingAudioTools definitely interesting and I appreciate all the hard work you guys put into it 👌🏼
I really enjoyed this interview, thank you both for doing what you do. 👊🏽
Awesome. Thank you.
Thanks for the podcast. It was much fun to listen too
Couple of thoughts
The analog warmth thing. I precisely think it means not brick walled. Dan mentioned the late 80's early 90's rave phenomena being entirely played off vinyl, where transients are not limited in the same way they are digitally, giving that 'analog warmth'. I could also be attributed to less predominance in the sibilant range, allegedly when old masters were put on to CD the master EQ was not adjusted accordingly therefor the highs that would get attenuated in the transference to vinyl or tape were over present. Maybe. Either way this sound can be replicated in the box
Regarding the loudness thing. When smoking was banned in clubs (I was djing weekly at the time) at any moment the energy in your set dropped the room emptied. Playing long building dynamic sets became pointless, every track had to hit, and hit hard quick. This dramatically changed not just production values, but compositional values too. I used to produce tunes into a bit crusher with short thematic intros and massive drops. They caused absolute chaos on the dance floor, it worked. I recently watched a documentry (why all my homies hate skrylex) which sited this exact phenomena. Now if you think you can educate dj's to get a lufs balance between their tracks in ableton and use the club mixer to gain... Might happen.
Best wished to you all
Paul
Thanks for your input!
I love that Dan clearly understands what functional harmony is as well as mixing fundamentals. He perfectly defends improvising over a harmonic framework at 11:12 I love that he understands this. Even more respect for this man.
He is a well experienced man 🤓
Great interview. Many thanks.
Glad you liked it. Stay tuned for more great guests and mix comparisons.
Great convo! Dan's advice and settings on Voxengo Span transformed my mixes. A simple thing but being a little deaf in one ear (years of DJing then playing bass next to a drummer.), it has become a huge part of the production process and I thank him for that!
Thanks for sharing!
What's Dan's advice on Span ?
@@deceiver444 ua-cam.com/video/iZrWMv02tlA/v-deo.htmlsi=dPnQ7ZIGVqYobOuD
@@deceiver444 the video where he explains it is called "Mixing With Your Eyes: Voxengo SPAN mixing settings." It's SUPER useful! Definitely recommend recreating his settings and saving them as a preset.
I really enjoyed this one as it was more about real life experiences. 🤘
Plan on getting more of that on the podcast 🤓
Good to see some representation of our fellow sentient waveforms in the audio community
Even the sentient waveforms need a platform! Haha
I‘m such a big fan of dan. Follow him since years on years, one of my biggest inspirations
Love the fact that the interview is just Dan's voice as a wave form, almost as if he doesn't exist on this plane
Tbh he is still the only youtuber I know that doesn't even own a camera haha 100k subs without a camera.. Now that's impressive haha
Great conversation!
🤓🤓
Thanks for listening.
Dan waveform Worrall
Legend has it he’s already edited
Dan is literally an "audio guy"😄
46:14 Great question, it should be pinned on Dan's channel to explain that knowing your gear is like mastering an instrument, it becomes second nature and it works in your favor to cut mixing times. A plugin tutorial is just like a manual, not the way to learn how to approach a mix.
Absolutely.
Brilliant podcast. These guys are great. I played The Boardwalk a few times too. What bands did Ed play in?
I played with bands like Second Sight, Boston Wood, The Guild (Joe Rose), all sorts of stuff no-ones ever heard of 🤣 - Ed
2 agents spend some time with the oracle, hehe
👍 great fun this, nice one gentlemen
Thanks for watching!
DAN WORRALL = Legend.
I know what Dan Worral looks like..and Paul could absolutely pass as his son 🤣
We've seen older photos of Dan and we can't agree on that one! 🤣
Epic episode!
Thanks. Stay tuned for more great guests and mix comparisons.
Fantastic episode. New subscriber! Cheers!
Welcome aboard!
@@WorkingAudioTools thanks! I was already a fan of all three of you gents lol I didn't realize you'd broken away from Produce Like a Pro to do your own thing. It's great!
Dan Worral minus VOG! Hardware or Plugin😅
Great show guys.
14:10 +1 for the Atari ST - the most powerful and easy to use computer of it's time!
Great stuff gents
🤓🤓
Thanks for watching.
Paul third + Dan Worall, lovely combo
Glad you think so!
Great episode
Thanks for watching 🤓
PSI Love it !
They’re lush! - Ed
@@WorkingAudioTools Best investment ever :)
I like your hairstyle Dan
Just came back from listening to I won the loudness war. Dude that slapped so hard I had to drop 3 rolls of ecstasy, buy 14 glow sticks, and I’m now melting into my couch🤣
no f*ckin’ WAY!!
Im spazzing out this is so awesome
Hahaha hopefully we filled your audio geek cup!
Paul fcking Third + Dan freakin Worall. The dream became true! Nice
🤓🤓
Do we have Dan's realtime voice over chain? I think I remember him saying he uses a SM58 but what about the plugs?
He made a video on his channel
Unfabfiltered ❤
This episode is oversampled
Hahahaha! Our favourite comment so far!
Make it slap and they’ll crank it loud! 😅
All about the slap!
Honestly the best mixing advice ever.
Dan is a master!!!!
Ngl... I came here hoping to find what Dan looks like.
This was somehow infinitely more fulfilling.
"You have to learn when not trust your ears to learn when you can trust your ears"
It's my next tattoo @DanWorrall
Dan Worrall = Legend:)
🤓🤓
Dan I want to see what you look like. You are such an amazing sharp guy about plugins
@1:02:34 "nothing you perceive is real" - Swami Dan Worrall :)
Should tell the missus that when she gives me a list of the things that's pissed her off that week 🤣
Damn, now I've found out he's also a northerner I'm even more jealous of his accent / diction now 🤣🤣
Where in the UK are you from again?
@@WorkingAudioTools I'm North too, originally Lancashire, currently Yorkshire
Dan is the ancestor of Zen from Blakes 7
Wow I was in a blues band called Bare Wires who used to play at The Band On The Wall around that time. Maybe Dan was a fan of mine before I became a fan of his. That would be hilarious and wonderful.
I was probably there, underage and rather inebriated 😂
Fantastic stuff. Dan may have done sound for Ed, too as a budding young drummer aged 14/15.
If i remember correctly Sony developed dsd with a mastering engineer call Gus Skinas i think?
Ps audio and Gus have the only Sonoma Dsd equipment in the world
again if i remeber correctly?
i was going to purchase some Mytek dsd converters over 10 years ago (not cheap) but because you can't edit in dsd i stayed away from it and went prism orpheus instead, obviosly not dsd, i've never looked back! Pyramix is the software used for dsd Paul if your intersted?
great show!
Every time Dan talks, a plugin gets enhanced with an Omega particle.
Dan Worral is basically HAL without the homicidal tendencies =D
Just learned about this brand from Poland. I had no clue it existed...
That transition to DistroKid ad. 😂
Shameful. But seemless 🤣
I genuinely didn't know they were a sponsor
we need 2 run dans voice wave thru plugin dr 😂
I have yet to stumble into a single career thing so it feels quite frustrating hearing how "things just happened" for dan 😅
Ah, I suspect this was a retrospective comment, meaning things happened over time but in hindsight seems a short amount of time.
always wondered what dan worrall looked like so clicked on the video and im still wondering haha
Me literally liking scratchy pots and dusty connections in analog gear.
This man needs a signature line of plugins.
The only plugin line youtubers would be afraid to review 🤣
Dan Worrall proves time and again that his audio knowledge and skill are so high that he isn’t human. He’s a waveform that has evolved into something that sounds human if it wants to. Hence the waveform instead of a human face.
To Ed's point about DAWs sounding different I think he may be on to something, because and I already know this will open a kettle of worms, but I listened to two songs session files this week in Pro Tools and Cubase and they definitely sounded different. I repeated it a few days later, because I did not believe it, but my observation remained the same. I reached out to a working mixing engineer about this and he did not indicate that I was wrong in my assessment and confirmed there are differences. I did some basic level research and it is likely because they use different sound engines as those are proprietary, but they were different and I certainly preferred one over the other and it changed my mixing decisions. I will not disclose which I preferred, because that is not the point.
Is not possible that it's mainly a pan law difference? That would be the test, to ensure that every track is exactly panned, every track is exactly level matched to ensure that the differences aren't as easy as a subtle correction via doing some null tests - Paul
I plan on Null testing the difference between Logic and Luna but I have considered it may be the output sound that’s different not the mix down sound. To be explored - Ed
As far as DAWs having a ‘sound.’ The actual summing of a DAW won’t. Null a mix of the same stems with no processing, they should null. So issue solved right, DAWs all sound the same. Well… *but*… every DAW handles how you gain stage differently. There are differences in stock plugins (which are used by many). There are differences in how DAWs handle subgroups and sends/returns. There are functional differences once you get into the mixing process. Every DAW has a different workflow which may incentivize or de-incentivize certain actions.
The best example is comparing Ableton to Harrison Mixbus (both of which i have used for years). Ableton gives you no points to do gain staging except the volume of the clip and the output at the fader. Yes, you can and should use the Utility stock plugin within your chain in order to do proper gain staging. But it forces you to add this tool, and people who don’t understand gain staging as a concept are likely to not even know they need extra gain control within their channel feeding the plugins at the level they operate best within.
Contrast, in Harrison Mixbus, if i remember correctly there are 7 different places you can adjust gain, from the clip gain through to the master buss. Harrison puts the tools to make the best mix decisions right in front of you, Ableton doesn’t. Before I switched to Bitwig, I used to make things in Ableton and mix in Harrison for this reason. My mixes from Harrison were easier to get to a good result than my mixes from Ableton, not because "Ableton sounds worse," but because Mixbus is designed for mixing and gives you instant access to all the tools you need to make excellent mixes, without having to work-around a system that was designed for one thing: playing live electronic music.
These days I just do everything in Bitwig because I find Bitwig’s flexibility is approachable for mixing. I used those two DAWs as an example because they’re the best examples of the extremes of one thing: disincentivizing or incentivizing proper gain staging. In that way, different DAWs absolutely can encourage or discourage certain choices, and especially people who haven’t been doing it for several decades and don’t have all their engineering knowledge together, may get easily pushed into making a mix a certain way. And it’s not always the best way.
It’s a complex issue, but, for beginning musicians/mixers, how individual DAWs are structured may well have an impact on their end result. And for experienced ones, it has an impact on how quickly or painlessly one can get to the desired end result.
So what’s the ‘best sounding’ DAW? The one that lets you get to your best end result as easily as possible, given the type of music you make. And that may be different for different people.
Dan Worral is the AI of sound engineering.
I love how Dan came dressed as K.I.T.T. :D
Shaolin mixing 🥷
Dan probably used RX loudness to get all samples near clipping
This guy Dan reminds me the talks with K I T T
Great to hear the both of you silent for a change 🤣
Haha 😜
20:00 :))))) lol
Would love to see you get Mick Gordon on this podcast to finally deep-dive on technical stuff.
It's more music we are focused on. Is Mick not more games based?
@@WorkingAudioTools he's done a lot of work with bands lately, but on the audio engineering side he has incredible insight and skill. The podcasts he's done with URM and Produce like a Pro are a great showcase
Since we're only seeing waveform in every Dan's video , it safe to assume that he's already transcend into some kind of Artificial entity?😅 Especially with those vast of knowledges
Wow i am so late 😮
I still swear there is a big difference between protools and other Daws.
There have been tests done and the differences were under -100dbfs. There are differences but shouldn't be audible - Paul
@@WorkingAudioTools I know your correct so must be the way i set up protools im more of a reaper guy so maybe i did something wrong.
I plan on Null testing a mix in Logic and Luna. We’ll discuss the results in an episode soon - Ed.