The Race to Build the World’s Fastest Supercomputers | WSJ U.S. vs. China
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- Опубліковано 30 сер 2022
- The U.S. supercomputer Frontier was crowned the world’s speediest this year, but some computer scientists say China‘s Tianhe-3 may be as fast. WSJ unpacks the tech and design of the machines as the two countries race to solve some of the world’s biggest challenges.
Photo illustration: Sharon Shi
U.S. vs. China
This original video series explores the rivalry between the two superpowers’ competing efforts to develop the technologies that are reshaping our world.
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#Supercomputers #China #WSJ
Let these two compete in tech race that can benefit the human race, not an army race that can destroy humanity
Wrong this supercomputer/AI will be used to get an edge in economics and military advancement. This will be the new nuclear weapon. If the people who controls the technology are dominant then chances are, they will use this to expand their agenda.
Unless they use it to build a homicidal AI.
Which I wish was entirely a joke.
*What WSJ will not tell you is that China have not released their latest data for the last five years (which is deemed as classified as not worthy of frivolous "race" it is well known in Chinese internet Guess English speaking western people still have yet caught up :) ) that is why America machines were able to "catch up"*
By the way, American installed chip ban and sanctions on Chinese companies working on supercomputing since early 2000s and space station since 1980s
cannot be achieved if one thinks the competition is to deter or even suffocate the other.
@@TG-nx7xe you do realise competition is why you have smartphone or laptop.
the first computer was the size of a house imagine what this would look like in 20 years lol
I wouldn't be surprised if the size only increased linearly but the computation increased exponentially.
Hahahaha Lol HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL LOL LOL LOL haha hahahaha! !!!!!!
moores law bye bye ):
"the compute node is basically like your personal computer"
Pulls out my PC with 8 GPUS and 2 CPUS
Exactly! just like my personal computer ... 20 years from now! I hope.
And...how do you expect them to reveal what they do if they are blocked continuously whenever they make any small progress?
If they want to play it close to the chest, that's fine. But don't claim the world's fastest supercomputer and then show us a pathetic blade with years old 8gig sticks of RAM...
@@iLink8 hahaha good
@@iLink8 I think you thought too highly of Chinese technology. The last I heard about it, they are salvaging chips from all sorts of devices with chip such as Apple II, Sinclair ZX81, Nintado, GamBoy, etc. So what you said is rather exaggerated. China still has decades to catch up to the US. So there is no need to worry about it.
i m sure if their scientists drink coffee at Starbucks, the US gov't would ban Starbucks from selling anything that contains water to the Chinese government.
Soon the US gonna get backfire for that
The chips in those computers are not at all "tiny." The Radeon Instinct MI250X GPUs in Frontier have a die size of 1540 mm^2.
Very informative video. Keep up the good work.
Although it might be interesting how the Tianhe 3 might perform,
I'm at least as interested in the SUNWAY TAIHULIGHT which although was #1 when it was first submitted in 2016, is still ranked #6 in the June 2022 Top 500 report that was recently published.
Unlike the Tianhe 2A which is still ranked #9 on the same list, the SUNWAY seems to be built entirely with domestic and proprietary chips, accelerators and interconnects. This machine might be a better indication of China's computing capability because it might be using 100% domestic technology while the Tianh3 2A is built using Intel Xeon chips, Chinese accelerators and interconnects.
Chinese do not have any GPUs inside their domestically made supercomputers
@@napobg6842 Wrong. You can easily find Сhinese made GPU compute engines. And they developed them in only three years. Maybe that's why you've missed it.
@@catonpillow There are some but they are so weak that there is no need to even consider them
@@napobg6842 Wrong again. The chiplets made by Biren Technology(A Сhinese GPU firm) are comparable with Nvidia's Ampere flagship.
@@catonpillow They are not even remotely close to Ampere GPUs 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Americans blocked Chinese access to the best chips, then act surprised when Chinese researchers stop collaborating with them on computing research.
yup, those classic self righteous cxxt’s entitlement
Yeah , but why did America block them ?
@@mitchfukncanfield to try slowdown/hurt china research speed technology on respond of rising tension after Pelosi visit over Taiwan
@@mitchfukncanfield idk, same reason that America wants collab afterward?
Nobody acts surprise. The US wants China to use domestic chips as they will surely know the Chinese supercomputers are inferior to the American ones
china already has the fastest computer
Perhaps. Too bad for the world community that China is not more transparent about such things.
This is awesome 👏🏿
WSJ make video on Quantum computing china vs US.
China world leader in Quantum computing.
nice joke
Both Countries Are Doing Great... Keep it Up ❤
Scary thing is the first fully operational quantum computer will blow this out of the water. which if used to crack our strongest encryption algorithms today, would be easy work for it.
That's what everybody's really worried about to be honest
It will be able to crack encryptions we thought were impossible
Quantum computers don't work how you think, they may be able to ease certain computations but they are not going to replace conventional computers.
@@zinjanthropus322 a QC would be crazy overkill for conventional tasks like email or word. the essence of encryptions are nothing more than very complex equations, a QC will be able to crack that mathematical formula AKA algorithm AKA computations relatively easily.
@@masterzen107 What I'm saying is calculations to do with a specific type of encryption are the only things quantum computers are known to be better at than conventional computers. In fact a new encryption standard is already being rolled out on conventional computers that quantum computers can't crack.
I think Japan is also competing in this race.
Correct, Frontier replaced them at the #1 spot.
BS, JAPAN is far behind china and USA, also japanese use US technology, its not japanese supercomputer, from chips and system, so called japan supercomputer are all US made
Nice video.
how do these computers compare to quantum computers in speed and technology?
Great ,,
One of the US advantages is that it has a lot of talent born abroad, such as 4:09 Thomas Zacharia, director of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. He was born in India and has obtained a Ph.D. in Computational Material Science.
PS
According to a 2017 study, 81% of students enrolled in Electrical Engineering in US grad schools were international students. At Yale University, 88% in Electrical Engineering were international students, while 81% in computer science were.
At Dartmouth, 89% of students enrolled in its graduate computer science program were international students. At NYU- Tandon School of Engineering, 92% of the graduate computer science students were international students.
PS This doesn't include permanent residents or naturalized citizens; hence the percentage would be higher for those born abroad.
Nonsense, for the fact that the U.S gives others chance that they never get from others doesn't mean that they do not have their own quality home grown scientists, your kind of talks is what makes racist become even more racist to outsider, your comment is a total nonsense,now the U.S had opened their door to others to come and do their research, something India or China can never do, I respect the Americans honestly,cos many countries if they are like America will hide everything , and will refuse to share ,like the zchinese are doing,the reason why the U.s is cutting off ,the open door policy towards them,cos the Chinese are m3an and unkind.
So its the interest of US to keep India and other countries poor so that brain drain continue.. If you consider the post WW2 immigrants as foreigners, then the percentage is 99%
It’s an advantage, but also disadvantage: USA with a population of over 300 million, couldn’t produce enough talents from its own population.
Now USA starts to have problems to accept new immigrants, even legal ones.
US strongest weapon is sanctions. It can be completely unprincipled and use them unilaterally for no reason other to hurt progress.
Too bad many of them go back to their own countries and compete with competitors in the US.
But which one can run Crysis better?
USA is sanctioning every competitors so China decided to quit the game. Now USA is number one again. not because you are the fastest. but because China quit the game😹😹😹😹
China quit the game just concerned about the USA's fragile heart.
very powerful , I heard they can run Cyberpunk 2077 in 30 FPS even..
I suspect that nothing can be gained from viewing the Frontier computer structure.
a tech cold war between the two countries.
The new cerebras wafer processor is capable of 80 EXO scale speeds. They described this supercomputer as 1 EXO scale. The wafer processor is about 40,000 Watts and this machine is over a million Watts, I believe I put these numbers in correct perspective. This monster supercomputer is already dated. Expect the next generation of machines this size to be terrifyingly fast compared to this slow machine. When I bought my first 486 dx2 computer with a 33 MHz bus operating at 66 MHz in the late '80s I couldn't imagine machines operating at a faster speed. Now I can't imagine such high frequencies, it boggles the mind.
Then why is cerebras not built for any supercomputer in any country if its way faster than 1 exascale?
Connecting their supercomputing Machine to a legacy machine isn't the problem. Their focus in designing the chip wasn't this be able to put it into any supercomputer that is already out there. The supercomputers that are out there are not equipped to handle the chip and that's not their focus, being able to stick their chip in anybody else's supercomputer. They're building their supercomputers that are more powerful leaving Legacy machines behind. Why doesn't Ferrari build engines for Toyota? How do you put a V12 in a Citroën 2cv? I am clueless to answer your question.
@@miyagiryota9238 the speed of their Andromeda computer has 18 zeros.
@@zAlaskaif its so fasr then why it not listed even in top 10
I'd like to play Flight Simulator on that thing
Sorry this supercomputer will only do 27 fps on Crysis.
@@mikelbrenn111 ahh bummer, I'll have to wait for the next super computer to come out then. I require a minimum of 30fps so I can turn on anti aliasing.
Let’s go!
When are we going to have Deep Thought from Hitchhikers?
Look how young Chinese scientists are!
50 years from now.. Ppl are gonna laugh at the size of those computers.. 😁😁😁
they laugh at our comment too as we do to see the super computer 50 years ago
Amazing how many people have no clue that moore's law is dead, and computers aren't getting smaller.
@@blakkwaltz there is a new technology called Quantum computer.
Quantum computers aren't magic. They will only make some calculations faster. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
I have no idea, what this is about, but it seems gigantic. The effort China puts into new technologies,
and the advancement they are achieving on a steady pace is amazing. Thank you for showing it to the world.
lol you mean what China steals? they are nothing but robots without imagination.
competition is always good
The only effort china does putting into technologies, is copying everything from other countries.
Easy when you aggressively steal technology, research and ip
sanction of China clearly show China is about to surpass USA in technology.
Why is the U.S so OBSESSED with CHINA ?
@Edwin Brace They are trying to take over the world.
Because China says one of its main goals is to build a military that can crush the USN so that China can do whatever it wants without being bothered with the World Order that among things forbids countries from
- Forcibly conquering other countries for the purposes of ruling them and taking their resources
- Blocking shipping lanes by claiming maritime territorial rights beyond 12 miles from shore
- Raiding fisheries in other countries' protected economic zones
China wants to overturn the World Order based on International Rule of Law because as China becomes economically, politically and militarily powerful, China sees no reason not to exercise that power to take what it wants anywhere in the world. International Law is the main obstacle to China's ambitions and is doing everything it can to eliminate it. The basis of USA foreign policy is that International Law should govern behavior not whoever can be the biggest bully. The USA is protective of the World Order because it protects the intreest and rights of every country big or small, strong or weak. China benefitted from the World Order when it was weak following WWII but now believes it has every right to take what it wants now that it's stronger.
@@tonysu8860 America wants to take the world's resources at free will too ! You do realize the U.S and China need each other to thrive. When one thrives the other thrives. A good example is how the Chinese economy is suffering right now. This has caused supply chain issues in the U.S and prices are going up because of it
Because they have no air conditioning? Lol. Looks like Denver!
What are the graphics like?
Why would you ever expect a basically closed society to just one day want to collaborate freely (in supercomputing)?
U.s is like my neighbor. They're always jealous with my family and would do everything to make us feel sad
That comment is kinda lame considering China is going above and beyond to steal everything they can.
做中国人真恶心。
china: dont tell top500 our speed.
I just wonder can I play cyberpunk 2077 smoothly on these computer
No
2:54 that's cray cray
but can it play Crysis, tho?
it is the race to get all the silicon and chip making technology with news for wsj in south china sea
One thing to keep in mind is that China will test massive sets of nodes that are not designed to actually be super computers but rather process other sorts of traffic as many smaller scale systems and have them put on the top 500 List. Not that they haven’t made great strides by any means but I do think that is an important qualifier as far as the number of systems
It sounds like AMD had 7nm fabricated chips for this project. I can't see how China can compete without using a ton of western tech to even enter the convo.
And your evidence for your claim is?
Can you explain like further. I'm too dumb to understand. Like what is smaller scale that you mentioned?
just keep deceiving yourself. if you are reasonable enough, you should know by now the reason US Sanction China on sell of microchips is due to their competitive edge. they are about to leapfrog USA.
looks like no one knows what you are saiding
Colossus!
How many watts/second do supercomputer consume?
It has a peak power draw of 40 megawatts.
@@blakkwaltz $79 Celeron n4020 get get same answers as supercomputer? :)
What about India's Param series???
Love 😘 China Beijing ❤️
With digital hardware wouldn't you be able to take a solar panel and make a optical transistor then make a digital form of the radio sound to make a optical processor from one transistor or two solar panels that's how I made the Gameboy a supercomputer on the digital side for the future
Of you ever thought to use solar as the reflection light for holograms you could play the phase of the optical stream of the light the reflection bounce through solar
wait if the chinese system didnt participate, you cant say its as fast. let them participate or don't give reverence to it?
I've noticed the Global media is obsessed with US and China while ignoring other nations that could become the first in developing commercial quantum computing etc.
As of now the US and China are the only 2 nations working to achieve that first. In the US we see the actual work. From China mostly words and claims
Lol US is a failed state now... can't compete so banning everything. This shows how insecure US is
We have not forgotten about you 40 MW supercomputer reply.
Will $79 Lenovo 3 Chromebook Celeron N4020 x86 processor get the same NUMERCAL ANSWERS as supercomputer? Running at ~ 8 W.
… but can they run Crysis?
These are just the ones we know about…
That is why Chinese called dragons.
calling amd by their full name or making out like a compute node is some kind of advanced secret car part shows whoever wrote this has never owned a computer or probably even an xbox
Xinping SuperPC - "yull Bluutooth es Leady to Peal "
This feel like a private part measuring contest who care.... there is diminishing returns at one point.
Doesn't Japan have the fastest Supercomputer in the world? Or one of the fastest at least. Guess a neutral survey of existing tech would not be belligerent enough.
What is the name of the Japanese supercomputer?
Fugaku the Japanese supercomputer is rated at 400 petaflops. This is frontier rated at over 1000 petaflops it's much faster than fugaku.
They used to dominate back then when they were the few countries that produced their own domestic computers.
they used to but given how fast microchip advancement happens, it becomes very difficult to hold that spot for long
@@Vapor817 Yeah, but the WSJ made it a China vs US thing when it'd have been more informative to compare the state of the field at the time the vid was made.
Can Chinese exaflop computers talk to each other? Are they networked yet?
The real question is
Can it run Doom?
Can Frontier run Cyberpunk on max settings?
Everyone who commented before this hadn’t even watched the video yet. It hadn’t been out long enough.
the video is only 6 minutes long and can be played at a faster speed. maybe you're just slow.
@@deforged I posted two minutes after release. If you sped it up that quick you didn’t catch the content.
@@dannhatesusernames exactly 🤣. Why it's not useful to argue on UA-cam
One wonders how some of these computers don't have consciousness yet.
The architecture of these super computers is actually quite simple so no way near AI so don’t worry.
How do you know that? Have you asked a computer whether it has conscious thoughts?
Let US & China compete BUT its the people who will have the...final say!!!
Could use more Rgb. But I guess it’s an alright build 😂
Figures that Cray is involved.
Tianhe means Galaxy fyi
Who cares
@@subasthapa4839you it seems lol
Can’t wait for quantum chipped laptops 👩💻
Can it download OF content
China has your emails bro that’s how😂
I wonder if minecraft could run on it.. or maybe lets try street fighter and tekken..
The US must build at least 10 these supercomputers a year. These supercomputers can accelerate medical research by a factor of 10. And all other major very difficult problems!
most optimal Minecraft spec
The question for what purposes can make benefit to all man kind
How about Japan?
AMD !
Here I am still stuck with Windows 95 at home.
Yes,AMD
Skynet is coming .
Chinese supercomputers have better, more scalable architecture and are evolving faster....odds are once they catchup w semiconductor lithography, they will pretty much leave everybody behind
Doubt it, If they take this long to “catch up”
@@jtgd only the Dutch has the lithograph technology....China has being regularly beating other countries in top supercomputers for quite a while until Summit took back the top spot thru sheer brute force
Considering China is like 10 years behind in chip architecture so I very much doubt that.
@@jtgd actually, SMIC (Chinese semiconductor manufacturer) had being making 7nm chip since last year via packaging, using older lithography equipment.
But more than that, you are assuming that supercomputer architecture somehow predicates on design of semiconductor chip.
Supercomputer design has more to do with computer design. Semiconductors are only one small facet of overall computer design.
@@napobg6842 Correction 2 years.
Bitcoin network has the top 500 super computers combined beat already
Us vs China .. but actually Indian vs Chinese 🤣🤣
@Nonsense User
1 china born chinesse and india born indian in team US vs 2 india born indian (working in chinesse company ) and mainland chinesee...
Don't be happy..... He's just an employee and probably media spokesperson.
typical brag love Indian.
But can it run Crysis?
Not even at the lowest settings
My bank tell me NO long time ago.🙃
How many Bitcoin can it unlock
When you look at the top 500 list, the top two Chinese computers listed use a ton of electricity for the amount of petaflops they produce.
I have no mouth and I must scream
when sadhguru becomes a scientist this is how he sounds like😀😀
Shadhguru who?
He too is an Indian
@@d_reeves1133 Sadhguru, is an Indian yoga guru and spirituality mentor.
Do we need these computors to know we need to stop burning fossil fuels? Because I thought we figured that out 30 years ago when we still had dial up.
It's weird that I'm kinda proud of China. When visited 15 years ago, they didn't even have decent public toilet. I just don't understand why ppl are working overtime so that Chinese can't spend a night with full stomach. 😑
Very easy. It is because China wants to get food by stealing the food out of other peoples' tables.
@@napobg6842 their tables have been burnt and destroyed by the alleged victims who also happen to be the biggest stealers of all time. I assume you have no problem with that
@@rongarcia2128 Elaborate because you literally said nothing
metric pls
Why? You are watching a video pertaining to AMERICAN supercomputers. Learn *OUR* terminology. Why should we have to cater to irrelevant measurements? Except for science (because science uses metric system *ONLY*)
What I'm interested in are 2 kinds of models that might be getting airtime in China, but are likely far down the list on the US supercomputer problem run schedule. These are 1. dynamic resource-based economic planning models (an ultra-informed and contingency-conditioned 5 year plan--but it would work better on US data because unlike the PRC, we aren't lying through our teeth on every core metric).
2. Economic prediction models, yes of equities markets (and the input data on the company side would need to be more robust than quarterly earnings statements but might start there), but also entire macroeconomic system models in forex and sovereign debt, etc.
On second thought, since economic input data is likely still very janky and uneven, maybe scrap the above and stick to cool physics, design of automated algorithm-writing/code-writing tools, weather and decryption.
NSA project leader has crossed out all but the last word of my wishlist above, with a not-dissatisfied smirk.
Exceptional.
Thomas Zaccharia was a NIT graduate now heads oak ridge laboratory.
Another name in countless Great Indian brain drain.
brain drain def happens for china also, the US is benefiting from the worlds talent.
@Bruhhh Channelchinas research is severely underfunded, research institutes are state controlled, opportunities are very limited compared to the US.
@Zaydan Naufal when last time u heard balkan BUSINESSMAN
Garbage in Garbage out.. lol just kidding.
But can it run cyber punk?
Skynet anyone? Better build a kill switch into it.
Nvidia is releasing its own supercomputer too.
Ccp we steal your research and development and call it our own. Winnie the pooh
lol
Its claimed that China has two over exaflops supercomputers and one is being built. OceanLight uses Sunway SW26010 it has 1.2 exaflops of single-precision computing power, or 4.4 exaflops of mixed-precision Tianhe-3 uses Phytium 2000+ FTP Arm chip plus a Matrix 2000+ MTP accelerator. Its estimated that estimated 1.7 exaflops peak performance and just over 1.3 exaflops on Linpack. The information is all hearsay from David Kahaner. As far as we know no one outside China has seen these systems. After US begin adding every Chinese supercomputer firm to sanction list China stop giving information about their capabilities. We literally have to reverse engineer bitcoin miner to learn that SMIC has 7 nm capacity.
Only gullible people believes what China says.
@中国没盟友 Because China goes full stealth mode in their technical capabilities since whenever China make a technical achievement US tries to block it with a sanction. The only way to learn what China can do is reverse engineering what China manufactures. Simple for consumer products pretty hard for military equipment. I hope that's what you are asking I google translate your question.
@中国没盟友 *What WSJ will not tell you is that China have not released their latest data for the last five years (which is deemed as classified as not worthy of frivolous "race" it is well known in Chinese internet Guess English speaking western people still have yet caught up :) ) that is why America machines were able to "catch up"*
By the way, American installed chip ban and sanctions on Chinese companies working on supercomputing since early 2000s and space station since 1980s
China lies
Since it began in 2015, without US semiconductor design firm, do China have capability or talent that can rival US design? Manufacturing are just part of the problem which you mention and SMIC have manage that. What Chinese firm rival Intel, Nvidia and AMD? The hearsay can be entirely false.
Not even close!
US has the fastest supercomputer and have the fastest quantum computer
Claim your “here within an hour” ticket right here ❤️
US keep fueling China’s determination.