Warlord's fullblock is a pretty decent defensive move, but sadly it's very inconsistent. If Wl's fullblock punishes were actually guaranteed and he'd have no stamina pause he'd have an excellent defensive tool that's still punishable. Same with his superior block on all lights, great defensive tool if it was confirmed. But Wl doesn't have a dodgeattack, so that's a big problem for him (can't punish most bashes)
Great video. Though, I think JJ is a heavy, even though people like to call him an assassin for being “too fast.” JJ is deceptively fast, his lights are 500 ms, which is very react able and his heavies... if people struggle with those outside of team fights, I dont think you should really listen to then. Period. They probably think Shugoki needs a nerf. Just the way JJ moves in general, people say it isnt realistic and that he is too fast. Again, JJ is deceptively fast. I realized that with a lot of his attacks involve spinning and or jumping, which makes look faster than he his. Im sure someone will call me an idiot and remind me that JJ has 100 ms lights and 200 ms heavies. Overall, great video.
Giacomo Carrara Wow, that’s rare 😂😂 I think JJ just catches a lot of flak cause people cant combat him and he somewhat defies the whole stereotype of a heavy. JJ isnt some super big, super armored, super slow attacking character, so it pissed people off. Or at least that’s what I think why he gets so much hate.
He dodges around and tracks very far, making him look like an assassin, having useful dodgeattacks thanks to the SFs also helps, where other heavies are stationary JJ has massive s on dodgeattacks that he can soft feint and tracks like crazy with many of his moves.
Mr. Sister-Fister Tracking does not make you an assassin. That makes little sense. If you’re talking about someone rolling away from JJ and he still manages to cleave through, it has nothing to do with what class your character is, you can do that with a lot of characters. JJ only has a singular dodge move, which isnt very fast. Even if you watch it, it isnt very fast and it’s not that fast from a statistically point either, soft feinted or not. It’s real telegraphed too, so it’s even easier to watch. And what heavies are stationary? Conq? After his rework, he isnt that stationary. Before his rework, not too stationary either. Warlord? Full block is the closest you will get to stationary. Shugoki? Not only is he stuck in Season 1, but that passive armor pretty much let’s him do “a lot.” Or are we defining heavy as super defensive? Nobushi isnt too stationary and Lawbringer, he might be the closest thing you have to a “stationary heavy.” Sorry, but I just dont see any valid point(s) as to why JJ is an assassin or hybrid.
I get what you mean. Highlander just dashes around his opponent for defence. He has the damage you'd expect from a heavy but he glides around his opponent like an assassin.
I think thats realistically the only way to make him a good defensive hero. Otherwise he'd get bashed around by conq and warden exactly the same as everyone else except nobushi who already has immunity. If he had it on an all block type move I think it'd be perfect for him.
A good way to stop turtling, is to up the chip damage a lot. If the chip damage for a heavy was the same as a light attack, then people will be more inclined to try to parry that heavy. When people try to parry, it creates an opening. I think this is a good way to give heros a new way to open people up without adding too many bashes, unblockables, and unreactable attacks. If a heavy does 30 damage and the chip from it say like half that, it's 15 damage, the same as most lights. And most can say that they don't want to take that much damage for just blocking, so they try to parry. Maybe higher damage and slower attacks can do even more chip. I just believe this is a good way to have every hero to have a decent opener. What do you guys think?
I like the theory but I'm unsure how it'd play out. If ubi were to put this in the testing server I think it'd be interesting to see how a change like this would mix things up. It would also immediately fix characters like cent and raider making them good.
@@Sirid Yeah, I was also thinking when the opponent is on their last bar of health the chip damage should be reduced. So like instead of 2 blocked heavies killing the opponent, make it 4 blocked heavies. This will give the opponent a small chance to make a play and comeback. You would have to be able to die to chip damage or else everyone will just turtle when they get too low.
Yeah name of the leader is the vortiger and the class is black prior. Just like apollyon is the name and warden is the class. But yeah I'm sticking with vortiger. Sounds cooler to me
No, Conq is a heavy. He don't have the range of a vanguard, or the speed of an assassin. It is just with everyone whining about the, "Defensive Meta," playing defensively is damn near seen as a cardinal sin.
Uhmmm, conq is actually a defensive hero. Hes got his zone, full block, and superior block which are all really good defensive moves. Just because he has a fast bash doesn't mean he isnt a heavy. It seems like the kinda hero you want is a like lawbringer; not many unblockables, slow attacks, and super defensive kit. But theres a reason lawbringer is getting reworked. But anyways, each heavy hero that has been released has been "defensive", so vortiger will likely be just as defensive as jj or conq
I think the gameplay in the background shows why he's not a defensive hero. Or a heavy for that matter. Sure I'll agree he has one of the best defences in the game. Top 2 or 3 hands down. But its not his main thing in the slightest. In the footage I barely use his defensive tools because that's not how he's designed to be used anymore. When he first came out yes but after the rework its all about overwhelming pressure with conq. Yes you could play him defensively if you wanted too but that's not the best way to win with him. Bashing and staying in your opponents face is. Not something a defensive hero would do. And no every hero that has been released isn't defensive. Take any assassin, glad, shaman, nuxia, shinobi. The only defensive hero released or at least defensive now is centurion. And not by design. He has to be defensive to win like lawbro. He's just too shit to play him any other way. They both are. Now any hero can play defensively yes but most characters aren't designed to be played that way. Only ones that are, are pretty shit except nobushi.
@@Sirid haha thanks for the reply ma dude. Yea I did forget about nobushi, who is probably the best made "defensive" hero as of now (which isnt really saying much). I think in this game it's hard to create a character that is both "defensive", and viable. You can't just have a character who turtles and counters attack ofcourse, but also doesn't have an annoying offense. If vortiger is "defensive" which he prolly will be, I'll be curious to see what ubi does to make him also have decent offense, as long as that doesn't make him another conq.
@@stinkymode4868 I think from the reveal I can safely say I'm happy with him. He has a defence exactly like I predicted and hoped for and his offence is on par if not slightly better than valks. So while he will probably be s tier it wont be because of his over the top offence like conq. It'll be because of his god like defence combined with a reasonable offence. I like that balance.
Dude ive always thought about conq being more of a hybrid then a heavy hopfully when the black prior coms in hell be the proper heavy Ps. Call it what it is (at least for console) spam meta -_-
Things like the recent Conq buff, how people play nowadays due to these buffs and also the overall aggressive meta is the reason i stopped playing this game. It's become an absolute cancer fest and i honestly preferred the turtle meta over this shit. They need to do an overhaul and make a mix between the turtle and aggressive meta to make balanced gameplay. That's the only way this game will ever be truly balanced.
Dont need them to do well with conq at all. All you need is the ability to delay your bashes and you'll win most fights. Its a shitty way to win but its how conqs designed to win nowadays.
Pin this darth sidious
yeah JJ is a hybrid of vanguard and assassin with the health of a heavy
Marzial Alfonzo Canada mix of vanguard and heavy with a hint of assassin
Warlord's fullblock is a pretty decent defensive move, but sadly it's very inconsistent.
If Wl's fullblock punishes were actually guaranteed and he'd have no stamina pause he'd have an excellent defensive tool that's still punishable.
Same with his superior block on all lights, great defensive tool if it was confirmed.
But Wl doesn't have a dodgeattack, so that's a big problem for him (can't punish most bashes)
JJ is more of a hybrid between a Vanguard and an assassin.
Conq is a hybrid between assassin, vanguard AND heavy.
How on earth is slow as conq a assassin hybrid?
@@GrievousKhan: I said the same thing. He has more health than both, and he has slower lights and heavies.
I agree with you the game does need more heavys
Just found your channel, great content!
Thanks man glad you like it =)
LB rework OP > LB rework balanced
Im getting a rework!!!!!
Me and shrek
That's not a trial, that's... a rework!
@@gigio9790 yeah buddy im making a comeback
It's about damn time!
2 of my old faves making a comeback. And a new character I've been hoping for, for months. Things are looking good =)
oh ur gonna get it so close aaaawwwww so close
my man Luulli moving up in the world lol
Great video.
Though, I think JJ is a heavy, even though people like to call him an assassin for being “too fast.” JJ is deceptively fast, his lights are 500 ms, which is very react able and his heavies... if people struggle with those outside of team fights, I dont think you should really listen to then. Period. They probably think Shugoki needs a nerf.
Just the way JJ moves in general, people say it isnt realistic and that he is too fast. Again, JJ is deceptively fast. I realized that with a lot of his attacks involve spinning and or jumping, which makes look faster than he his.
Im sure someone will call me an idiot and remind me that JJ has 100 ms lights and 200 ms heavies.
Overall, great video.
I do agree with you, i also see jj as heavy
Giacomo Carrara Wow, that’s rare 😂😂 I think JJ just catches a lot of flak cause people cant combat him and he somewhat defies the whole stereotype of a heavy. JJ isnt some super big, super armored, super slow attacking character, so it pissed people off. Or at least that’s what I think why he gets so much hate.
He dodges around and tracks very far, making him look like an assassin, having useful dodgeattacks thanks to the SFs also helps, where other heavies are stationary JJ has massive s on dodgeattacks that he can soft feint and tracks like crazy with many of his moves.
Mr. Sister-Fister Tracking does not make you an assassin. That makes little sense. If you’re talking about someone rolling away from JJ and he still manages to cleave through, it has nothing to do with what class your character is, you can do that with a lot of characters.
JJ only has a singular dodge move, which isnt very fast. Even if you watch it, it isnt very fast and it’s not that fast from a statistically point either, soft feinted or not. It’s real telegraphed too, so it’s even easier to watch.
And what heavies are stationary? Conq? After his rework, he isnt that stationary. Before his rework, not too stationary either. Warlord? Full block is the closest you will get to stationary. Shugoki? Not only is he stuck in Season 1, but that passive armor pretty much let’s him do “a lot.” Or are we defining heavy as super defensive? Nobushi isnt too stationary and Lawbringer, he might be the closest thing you have to a “stationary heavy.”
Sorry, but I just dont see any valid point(s) as to why JJ is an assassin or hybrid.
@@blackblack1167 i said it makes him look/feel like one, much like how Kensei's rollerskate dodgeattacks feel like they belong on an assassin.
All i know is that its gonna be a good year
The concept is good but the execution would be quite hard
True. But its all just theorising. I'm very eager to see how he ends up in the reveal today
@@Sirid so am i
I hope all of these new heavy characters actually feel like a heavy character rather than feeling like a highlander if that makes any sense
I get what you mean. Highlander just dashes around his opponent for defence. He has the damage you'd expect from a heavy but he glides around his opponent like an assassin.
Oh yeah yeah
Yeah NOBUSHI!!!
What do you think about immunity vs. Bashes on vortiger against the Spams?
I think thats realistically the only way to make him a good defensive hero. Otherwise he'd get bashed around by conq and warden exactly the same as everyone else except nobushi who already has immunity. If he had it on an all block type move I think it'd be perfect for him.
They really need to bring back the unlocked attacks for mid. Warden and many others now literally cannot function in mid.
A good way to stop turtling, is to up the chip damage a lot. If the chip damage for a heavy was the same as a light attack, then people will be more inclined to try to parry that heavy. When people try to parry, it creates an opening. I think this is a good way to give heros a new way to open people up without adding too many bashes, unblockables, and unreactable attacks.
If a heavy does 30 damage and the chip from it say like half that, it's 15 damage, the same as most lights. And most can say that they don't want to take that much damage for just blocking, so they try to parry. Maybe higher damage and slower attacks can do even more chip.
I just believe this is a good way to have every hero to have a decent opener. What do you guys think?
I like the theory but I'm unsure how it'd play out. If ubi were to put this in the testing server I think it'd be interesting to see how a change like this would mix things up. It would also immediately fix characters like cent and raider making them good.
@@Sirid Yeah, I was also thinking when the opponent is on their last bar of health the chip damage should be reduced. So like instead of 2 blocked heavies killing the opponent, make it 4 blocked heavies. This will give the opponent a small chance to make a play and comeback. You would have to be able to die to chip damage or else everyone will just turtle when they get too low.
Spam on console is bad enough they should not encourage it more
@@ryangoepfert9112 How does it encourage spam?
While I disagree that shaolin is a complete assassin, good video!
What are you talking about that conquer ain’t a heavy because he has a rework, what?
conq is like a vanguard to me
How so?
@@GrievousKhan he has a simple opener like warden and a mixture of offense and defense
Current META: Shield/kick/shoulder - Bash and Light Spam
JJ is anything but a heavy
Or they can add a unparryable heavy attacks ,greater chip damage than regular heavies
They all are what their classes say, the devs just need to improve how they make heroes function.
It's not called a Vortiger it's called the Black Prior.
To be honest i dont think thats a very good name comared to the rest od the heros names idk i just like vortiger way better then the black pior
^ I call him vortiger sometimes cause I feel like that sounds way better imo
Yeah name of the leader is the vortiger and the class is black prior. Just like apollyon is the name and warden is the class. But yeah I'm sticking with vortiger. Sounds cooler to me
Do you think that conquerer would fall from S Tier if they just nerf his SB ?
Yeah pretty much. I mean he'd still be great. But if they removed it entirely lets say, I still think he he'd only end up a B tier.
I think they should only make it where he can only do a light shield bash from a parry
Australia better tell us how good vortiger is
No, Conq is a heavy. He don't have the range of a vanguard, or the speed of an assassin. It is just with everyone whining about the, "Defensive Meta," playing defensively is damn near seen as a cardinal sin.
Uhmmm, conq is actually a defensive hero. Hes got his zone, full block, and superior block which are all really good defensive moves. Just because he has a fast bash doesn't mean he isnt a heavy. It seems like the kinda hero you want is a like lawbringer; not many unblockables, slow attacks, and super defensive kit. But theres a reason lawbringer is getting reworked. But anyways, each heavy hero that has been released has been "defensive", so vortiger will likely be just as defensive as jj or conq
I think the gameplay in the background shows why he's not a defensive hero. Or a heavy for that matter. Sure I'll agree he has one of the best defences in the game. Top 2 or 3 hands down. But its not his main thing in the slightest. In the footage I barely use his defensive tools because that's not how he's designed to be used anymore. When he first came out yes but after the rework its all about overwhelming pressure with conq. Yes you could play him defensively if you wanted too but that's not the best way to win with him. Bashing and staying in your opponents face is. Not something a defensive hero would do. And no every hero that has been released isn't defensive. Take any assassin, glad, shaman, nuxia, shinobi. The only defensive hero released or at least defensive now is centurion. And not by design. He has to be defensive to win like lawbro. He's just too shit to play him any other way. They both are. Now any hero can play defensively yes but most characters aren't designed to be played that way. Only ones that are, are pretty shit except nobushi.
@@Sirid haha thanks for the reply ma dude. Yea I did forget about nobushi, who is probably the best made "defensive" hero as of now (which isnt really saying much). I think in this game it's hard to create a character that is both "defensive", and viable. You can't just have a character who turtles and counters attack ofcourse, but also doesn't have an annoying offense. If vortiger is "defensive" which he prolly will be, I'll be curious to see what ubi does to make him also have decent offense, as long as that doesn't make him another conq.
@@stinkymode4868 I think from the reveal I can safely say I'm happy with him. He has a defence exactly like I predicted and hoped for and his offence is on par if not slightly better than valks. So while he will probably be s tier it wont be because of his over the top offence like conq. It'll be because of his god like defence combined with a reasonable offence. I like that balance.
Hey i actually got a notification for once!
All it took was me uploading it twice. I love UA-cams sub system xD
Dude ive always thought about conq being more of a hybrid then a heavy hopfully when the black prior coms in hell be the proper heavy
Ps. Call it what it is (at least for console) spam meta -_-
That it is. And yeah a real heavy would be nice for a change
But will he make the Fallen repent
does this mean ur coming back to for honor 😢
Conq has the best defense
Maybe they wouldn't have made so many assassin type heroes if everyone wasn't crying turtle just because they couldn't break their opponent's defense
DLC heroes were already planned before launch so no
Notification gang waddup
Orochi, the iconic samurai should not be an assasin.
Things like the recent Conq buff, how people play nowadays due to these buffs and also the overall aggressive meta is the reason i stopped playing this game. It's become an absolute cancer fest and i honestly preferred the turtle meta over this shit.
They need to do an overhaul and make a mix between the turtle and aggressive meta to make balanced gameplay. That's the only way this game will ever be truly balanced.
Dislike if you main shugoki and are ready for the rework
That conq gameplay in the background is cringy. Now fullback mix ups at all
Dont need them to do well with conq at all. All you need is the ability to delay your bashes and you'll win most fights. Its a shitty way to win but its how conqs designed to win nowadays.