Minutes AFK >>> you finally find someone to invade >>> "Host has entered the boss area. Returning to your world" This game PvP could EASILY be the best of the series, Fromsoftware chose to cater to the lowest common denominator. Thats what happen when you remove by default invasions, great job Michael Zako
The PvP in the dlc is so bad and so spammy now that I actually think it's gonna result in a resurgence for Dark Souls 3 and maybe even 2 for PvP players, because the only reliable way to dodge Swift Slash is to escape to an entirely different game.
As a person who hates Elden Ring (both PvE and especially PvP) I go back and replay my baby Dark Souls 3 at least every half year to a year and I can absolutely guarantee you the game is *not* dead. Duels in the arena are decently frequent, fight clubs at Pontiff's are still there, covenant summonings are really hot especially the fucking Darkmoons now which is insane to think about (I got like 10 concords just being summoned as a blue and killing multiple invaders in a row) given how poor that covenant was performing back in 2016 and invasions (mostly in the hot zones) are still a go, with the majority of players you invade being solo hosts. DS3 is also just a better game overall in terms of PvP and whatever exploits remain are nowhere near as bullshit as anything in Elden Ring. Go ahead and urge people to continue the trend giving life to DS3.
The lone fact that the fire knight greatsword could R1+R1 true combo is all the proof needed that Fromsoft doesn't playtest a damn thing in pvp. Not a single thing for even a single minute.
One missed hitstun value in the code of the biggest DLC ever created isn’t alone a sign of no play testing. Plus they fixed it in like a week. Let’s at least be fair and focus on the stuff worth criticizing
@@FelicificityNormally, they have QA testers trying out basically everything in every possible way to actually test things. There's no way an R1 into R1 true combo could've slipped past them. Also, that issue existed with the Godslayer Greatsword at either launch or 1.0. They literally just copy pasted the values from the unpatched version of the game, knowing this issue existed. They did not test this at all.
Either Bull Goats or Solitude. Literally nothing else. Also, the fact that some weapons from the DLC only have the poise damage values from 1.07 shows that they just made the shit and forgot about it. From DOES NOT like PvP. I half expected them to add an item that makes the AI attack the invader like Giant seed or what not.
Its common to see people saying that From doesn't care about PvP because its irrelevant or too niche but i think its the other way around. PvP became more "niched" in ER exactly because From don't care about it as much as they did on Dark Souls.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments. I'm the kind of pve player that just likes to help with boss fights and pvp the occasional red along the way. Ive never once tried to trio up for a gank its so incredibly boring. I just wish we could find a nice balance with this and all have a great time together red or otherwise.
To summarize,the DLC pretty much acted like a catalyst to throw the already shaky balance of PvP completely off its kilter with ashes of war so insane that they feel like they don’t even belong in a souls game with how they function Because let’s be honest,some of the ashes feel like they were very deliberately made to break PvP with ones like swift slash being an example,almost nobody is going to use that against a boss because it wouldn’t stagger it like it does for a player There’s also how the formula and format for invasions have pretty much stayed the same despite FromSoft having literal years and multiple games to try something new that changes the idea of invasions themselves instead of changing things around them that pretty much just add up to how you get into one to begin with Invasions themselves also feel like ass since they seem to prioritize putting you against groups that always come prepared to blender you and aren’t even trying to progress through the actual game itself I know nothing can really be done regarding it,but I would at least like to invade a group that doesn’t feel like they are fully optimized to make the experience miserable so that doing so feels more natural and that you’re fulfilling the role of acting as a consequence of others playing coop instead of just being their punching bag
That's a lot of text, but just came to say that Swift Slash is amazing against bosses Closes distances really fast, procs status quickly, let's you dash away... It's a top tier AoW in PvE too
Honestly yeah fromsoft has made invading so awful for invaders that you HAVE to use the most OP and min max setups to be able to stand a chance in a 1v3. If the objective is to win a 3v1 then I have to use all the most broken stuff because I know the hosts and summons will
Nothing changed? What are you talking about? I now get stuck 4x more often while spawning in. Special thanks to that tree at Belurat. Thanks Miyazaki! I don't think I can stomach a second playthrough despite having characters ready to walk into the DLC for over a literal year. I am not in a good elden space right now. I'm thinkin. And the string bell bearing, man... What a disgusting tease. I feel mocked.
@@madserialkiller3394the string bell bearing makes string purchasable from round table, but ONLY string. As far as I’m aware that’s it. Everything else still has to be farmed for the most part. Which is a slap to the face because the item economy is so bad and farming is so mind numbing. So it’s like, here you go, here’s ONE THING you don’t have to farm. Good luck with the rest of the several dozen items that are finite per play through or not purchasable.
@@Ämyr2006 Well ideally we just wanted some type of vendor that had most of the materials at the very end of the game once you're done with everything. Which would still make the crafting system useful until you're completely done with the last boss/dlc. This would also put everyone on the same playing field because save scumming, duping and CE will exist forever. You also only get your items back in arena, not in invasions nor co op.
@@radjamss6390they added perfume bottles but you still have to do mind numbing farming for the regular perfumes. Even the spark aromatics need Miranda powder.
Weapon balance alone is not gonna save the online scene, the entire multiplayer ecosystem is in desperate need of a complete rework, this is easily the worst its been since Ds1, and DS1 STILL had more life in it. We need covenants with long term reward tiers, for PvP AND Co-Op, Rune Arcs alone are fundamentally WORTHLESS to online players. We need better co-op features so people will STOP migrating to the Seamless mod We need dedicated single player invasion zones We need blue phatoms that can actually REACH the fight We need more penalty trade offs for using Spirit Ashes, especially for the Mimic Tear We need karma systems that keep the balance in check, I dont mean just buffing and nerfing weapons, I mean the LITERAL balance of online interactions, compensation for hosts getting frequently killed during invasions like the Seed of the Tree of Giants, something that can give casuals a _temporary_ edge to keep them from being discouraged from online, aswell as sin "penalties" for invaders, like the Darkmoon Blade invasions, giving those "Lawful" Blue Phantoms something to do besides entering a host invasion 40 seconds after they already died while also giving Invaders what they already wanted which was MORE PvP. We need actual INCENTIVES so the general player base will actually engage with the online systems, only a relatively smaller fraction of the Souls core-dedicated player base is extrinsically motivated to play these games online for the experience alone, and never has that been more apparent than with Elden Ring ( Good for YOU if you think you dont need any of that, doesnt change the fact that the online population is dying at an alarming rate for THE BEST SELLING Souls Game)
@@Togre3434 Okay...WITHOUT completely neutering spirits entirely 1st I would rework the cost of Spirits to be a scaling percentage based, so mimic tear will always take 33% of the players HP, and Black Knife Tiche would take lets say... 80% FP This means people wont need to use hidden cerulean crystal tear (which will no longer work for reasons I will go into) to summon spirits above their mind level, but they also wont have it for literally free. Second, this cost would be applied to the players Max Cap of HP and FP, think of it like destined death effect, While mimic tear is active you permanently have an HP cap penalty of -33% that can not be healed until the mimic dies, same goes for FP costing spirits
@@Togre3434 I would also open this up as an oppurtunity to make Stamina costing spirits, since the cost is applied directly to the cap itself, it will actually be a meaningful sacrifice So lets say Oleg for example, would reduce 30-50% of your max stamina until he dies. This would broaden the strategic appeal of different spirits to synergize with different builds. Stamina costing melee and tanking spirits for caster/ranged builds FP Range and Support Spirits for close range Melee builds you could also further discourage mimic tear abuse making the cost of summoning it have sort of an "ANTI" Radahn great rune effect -25/30% Max HP, FP, and Stamina
@@sasaki999pro i agreed with everything you said except the penalty trade offs for summoning........thats single player let that be,were talking about multiplayer here thats the issue not mimic tear
@@darkenedpsynoid You don't get it, the problem with summoning spirits is that it is more advantageous to do so then going online, Spirit Summons DONT increase the boss health bar, can be used in conjunction with NPC summons, and don't put you at risk of being invaded, there needs to be more drawbacks because they are siphoning potential multiplayer engagements by costing relatively NOTHING. One Flask at worst depending on your build if even that much. this effectively makes co-oping with randoms irrelevant which stifles the online population. Offline Summons should not be drastically more effective than summoning another player, they should be reserved as an emergency tool for people who literally CANT get online assistance. Otherwise it discourages people from engaging with the online components entirely to the detriment of a fundamental core aspect of Souls-games.
Me, returning to the arena after a year hiatus: "Oh, cool, multiplayer is back!" **Immediately gets stun-locked from three angles by Claws of Night AOW for three minutes**
i was really hoping for the dlc to unlock the player limit, it's was already dumb and annoying to deal with all the stuff in the base game... but now that everything has high damage, high poise and stagger damage, perfec tracking, good foward momentum, a lot of particle effects, and besically being the most anime like as possible, makes it really suffering for us, the invaders. ok, we have gotten good stuff, like the pvp system and the wex dust, but cmon, they haven't even touched the taunters tounge, an item that has been so exploitable since the released. or what about the blues spawning every 2 minutes after killing one phantom, that also needs a balance check. i think we, as a community should send some of our complains to FS, not sure if that will work tho. sadly we would need a really good organization, kinda like the type from #SaveTF2 movement.. edit: 13:15 i see why JeeNine said that ENDURE was necessary...
I miss pre DLC, it wasn't perfect, but if you played your cards right you could thrive; being a shitter meant using PSSS, just a strong setup. Now the skill floor is so low and you can literally push 1 button and be a threat, it's so lame
what really kills me is how we got absolutely no new infusions for intelligence+faith, there’s a whole subset of spells and incantations that literally can’t be used to their full potential simply because they have absolutely zero melee options
Idk if anyone has seen that one interview where Miyazaki said the reason why the game is like this pvp and covenant wise is because they intentionally tried to make the most bare bones as possible to simplify it for other people. Only in turn they made everyone including their target audience want way more respect for the multiplayer and pvp scene. It's just one of those moments where FromSoft is way out of touch with their community on the ideals of what made their past souls games so long lasting.
It's pretty clear that fromsoftware doesn't care (at least when they are developing new stuff) about PvP. One single test with swift slash in a PvP scenario would be enough to see that thing completely destroys multiplayer fights. Also, I would like to know what the deal is with making spammable stuff. Why make the vast majority of AOW spammable?
Because it's the new light attack weapons are just magic sticks that can also be used as a sword. Everything is the waves of piss sword. Just an aow catalyst
To have their cake and eat it too. Make the game harder and challenging for vets, but then also provide spam tools so that a monkey can beat the game blindfolded (they will still complain about difficulty)
Finally someone who understands how cancer ER invasions are. My thoughts exactly, I'm not having fun running away for 5 years just to cheese 1-shot phantoms before they can blender me. Adding mana into souls games was a mistake, we need to return to the simpler times of spells having limited number of uses.
Honestly, the PvP scene in this game has become something unrecognizable to the PvP scene of earlier games and has started to lose me. I don't like equipment swapping mid-fight and think it's more obnoxious than tactical. I don't like how zoning fights turn into people running around in circles rather than fighting. I don't like how characterized builds suddenly stopped existing (or at least became a minority). Even back in Dark Souls 3 you had people running around as particular knights or spellcasters or rogues in those various archetypes. We used to _mock_ people who went meta-golem mode in Dark Souls 1 & 2. Now it's the mainstay and I can't say it's enjoyable anymore. Now when you ask people why they built their character the only output you get is "because X is meta" or "because Y is OP." At first arena used to exist as a sort of "containment" hole for this kind of drivel thinking but now it's horribly leeched out into the main game as well because outnumbered invaders had to grab "best of the best" or get flattened in guaranteed 2v1's. I miss when PvP was simple "opt in/opt out." When people didn't put so much gravity on a win/loss but instead had "win some lose some" mindset. I miss randomly invading a goofy world where the Host and their phantoms just create a weird scene. PvP in the past used to be really fun, now I think people only convince themselves they're having fun.
@@darkenedpsynoid Since dks2 the pvp's meta has changed. Now the passive gameplay has a match up on the aggressive gameplay because of the disappearance of the on the backstep, attack cancels or even super parries. Today we have a pvp or AoW doing more damage than a bs or a parry. Er pvp is more about build than skill. AoWs are just an illusion to hide the poverty of the gameplay. If you want a Balance PvP you must make agressiv and passiv gameplay viable. Then you must incorporate some skill mechanics which would reward skill player rather than theorycrafting player Aka super parry.
I've made several support tickets in the Bandai namco site regarding this. I advise everyone else watching this video does the same. They actually do review & read your support submissions. The word needs to get out.
once i had seen everything the dlc has to offer when it comes to pvp, i just said to myself i'm retired from pvp.....the only time i will do it is if im helping someboby in their world or vice versa..........there's so much broken stuff that came with this dlc it's alot to unpack
There's a lot of balance issues, both big and small, in both in pvp and pve. I'm highly doubtful that they did proper playtesting, if at all. I mean, how did swift slash get approved?? On top of no fundamental improvements to the multiplayer system, other than the ability for summoning pool users to toggle off individual pools (which is arguably worse for invaders because you're more likely to get fog walled), the pvp is worse than it was before the DLC
They did playtesting for PVE that's for sure, you cannot make a game of this size without any playtesting. Swift Slash isn't that strong in PVE that's why it was approved
@@ni9274 for pve maybe overall taking out the worst out of the mix, but they basically didn't look at player equipment at all, most stuff from dlc is a)broken by design b)broken by having too much dmg (smithscript sacred, claws of night doing 30% more than any other claw, bhb) c)broken by having too little damage (even within basegame classes such as the obsidian lamina) d) having outdated poise values and glitches. very fun. I'm really not even joking when I say most player equipment, done a pretty deep analysis going item by item. Lot of it is fixable, but it's kinda gross
Ringed city got FIVE balance patches after release. We haven't even gotten a singular one yet. Balance changes are guaranteed to come. And PSA to people: please don't mistake your youtube and chat section ranting for "Feedback". No one hears you. No one will EVER hear you. If you want changes - SUBMIT A FUCK1NG TICKET. This is the most direct and effective way to actually deliver feedback to developer's ears. And they do listen. So many people had their specific requests heard and got an actual human response.
Balance patches are like cutting weeds without uprooting them, there are things fundamentally wrong with PvP in this game and the DLC did nothing to fix that. There's no colosseum maps/gamemodes, no covenants and no increased multiplayer limit at least for the new area.
Maining invasions is simultaneously the hardest and least rewarding thing to do in the game. It fees like an absolute trap and even winning isnt fun most of the time. I primarily invade and Ive gone through 20-30 hours at RL 25-50-80-125-150. They all have issues but are unified in that only about 15-20% of your time yields rewarding or fun encounters. I think im going to just finish out the PVE and hang it up with this game honestly. Does not feel like skill and effort are rewarded enough.
The problem is that its now set in stone, fundamentally broken. Before there were changes that couldve been made to the world wide aow/spells that kind of made them bearable. But the fix in balancing those was to give every melee moveset/aow worldwide tracking/damage. This wasnt the fix we wanted but now everythings broken and its an anime fighting game. Im just accepting it as never gonna be as good as the souls series pvp wise and just letting it go. Its cheese or be cheesed and thats just how it is now... You can still have fun if youre just cheesing, watching steel's bone bow vid was a great representation of that, but that isnt what we wanted at all.
Also my statement on fashion souls. Your character is always a representation of your out of game self. So with the fatties and goblins? Well... Enough said.
They literally announced a bigger balance patch is coming, it's not *set in stone* just yet.. Now what that patch will do to the game we'll see, it'll make it or break it
@@madserialkiller3394 i mean fundamentally in the case of the actual movesets. Now we have a collosal that shoots you 30 yards forward, another malenia katana. A katana that literally teleports you around. Backhand blades and swift slash. Hornsent curved sword AoW with near unlimited tracking. It's just become a ranged game and no balance on damage or hitstun can change it because of the animations themselves.
It’s hard to even talk about because it could be so much better and we’ve known that for two years. I want them to admit the multiplayer isn’t part of the escape or fantasy. It just checks off a box.
Biggest issue I have with the co-op side of multiplayer is the insane hp on basically every boss. Certain bosses, especially optional or very late into the expansion ones, are incredibly tanky. Makes status procs like frost and bleed feel almost essential to get through their heath bar. Final boss with two other phantoms has like 80k hp or something if not more. It really makes me not want to be summoned for DLC bosses because every boss takes an incredibly long time due to my low damage no matter what my setup tends to be.
I’m not sure if the damage I do correlates to the scadutree lvl of the host i join, I’ve only had 2 successful coop sessions with randoms fighting bayle 😂😂
@@spoop3074 yeah I felt like that’s maybe how From made it function which would make sense. Yet I’ve still never been able to do reasonable damage anytime I’ve been summoned. And yeah I don’t think I’ve ever beat Bayle with a host lmao. So much HP
Yoo I was the guy at 0:37 lol. I got so excited when I saw you cause I watch a lot of your videos and I prob only won cause I got lucky with the 2h shamshir robbery lmao. Love your content.
I feel like I've had this opinion for a while and I've been told I am crazy and just bad. I really appreciate you putting down these thoughts into this video man, I couldn't have said it better. To add on, this is the first soulslike where people are so extremely against invasions, even in a game where you've never had such an advantage over the 'bad red man' that people are okay with the fact that invaders shouldn't be able to play, or need to cheese to win. Honestly, the power creep was set in place at the very foundations of the game.
"But but but they added cool funny Chinese sword!! Xe wao piao piao., laugh at the meme! Haha french=bad amirite? Just ignore the pvps current state! The dlc is perfect stop critizing it i paid 40 dollars for this!!"
What the hell are you talking about, what Chinese sword and what's funny about it? And French? Huh? Is this some sort of Reddit circlejerk I'm not fat enough to understand?
I really had so much hope for pvp watching the trailer. At the very end seeing of the trailer when we get the shot of the followers of miquella posted up together like that. It really made me think we would get some kind of increase to player limit. Then We proceed to get nothing /:
Elden Ring is an anime simulator since the DLC, as far as weapons and spells go. So much of the new stuff is just outright unpunishable and overloaded with particle effects. So much of it just isn't fun to match against, whether in 1:1s or invasions.
I recently watched your video on low level pvp and trust me, its even worst now. I made a new character after finishing the dlc and did some multiplayer at rl30 and as a person who both summons as invades i can assure you its a shit show. Low level cooping or low level invasions (especially at stormveil) had gotten absolutely awful after the dlc. IDK why but at that level (both coopers and invaders), people just loves to bring backhand blades and damnation GS into mutiplayers or gimmick sleep build (with sleep arrows and sometimes shotgun). Also you have like 0 bleed resistance so getting hit by a clean bleed swift slash will unironically one shot you also the claws of night will destroy you too, you literally get bleed proc in 1 hit so you just get stunlock on the spot until you’re unalive. Also love the AC6 soundtrack 10/10 music choice. Another thing, fuck youtube guidelines, my comment got deleted because of the synonym for unalive.
Wow thanks for letting us know low level invasions suck too, you just saved me the effort of making a new lvl 60 character just to find out that meta is bs too
I have watched this video a few times now to digest everything. I cant agree with you more. I think DLC is gonna be what kills this game in the long-run if there is no major balancing done. I was invading (with drip) for awhile and just getting annihilated so fast that I couldnt even tell if i was fighting a dedicated gank or 'honest' pvers trying out the new anti-invader tools miyahacki gave them. I respecced my favorite build (str/int) to pure caster and just been one shotting golds from afar and trying to have a decent fight with the host. Sucks having to carry bhb with you everywhere. Oneshotting with frenzy burst, spamming gravity missile or proccing crazy bleed is the best way to win an invasion now but it isn't satisfying. I made a dragon themed character last night to follow along with you in your new beggars run. Never thought i would go back to low level invasions but its more fun than i remembered. tldr; can hear the dissatisfaction in your voice in this video. Know you are not alone. Hope I can catch a stream soon. ggs & wp
Sigh I miss being an Aldrich Faithful. The moment I realized how the pvp was structured and thay invaders had no help I instanly checked out unless I'm fucking around with friends. Im not even a pvp play at heart im pve first. But man u played DS3 for HOURS after finishing a playthrough because of the covenant system and pvp alone.
I honestly loved ds3 arena especially the firelink arena because of the terrain, and you could do jumping plunges off of the sideways tower, there was a pillar to counter magic spam, it wasnt all flat. Basically the ideal arena in my opinion. I hope there is some sort of free dlc addon for elden ring that will add more colosseum maps.
fog walling got worse, spawns are beyond shit, PvP has become so damn annoying, it is crazy. Swift slash, blind spot, back shit blades. Like the DLC gave shitters everything they need to compete with people who actually have some sort of skill. Imagine fighting a 3 man gank with this new stupid auto-aim bow, sleep cross bow and swift slash...Like this is just unfun. And yes I know we are the invaders but ffs we already suffer so much, make the PvP at least more enjoyable and balanced since in the end of the day after the DLC hype this game will be left with the "special kind" of people who will make sure invaders will have a hard time.
pvp was always trash, running away is optimal, weapon switching makes you play passive so you dont get clipped by something random and optimal builds make you look like a clown like double spears. for invasions they should just let you play as an npc and have a few dedicated areas for pvp invasions.
Agree with pretty much everything said. I also wish we could filter where we can invade when choosing near/far. Half the time it's a group walking through a boss door.
I always laugh when I see people that think the PVP is at the forefront for these games. That’s long past. DS1 was the last game that had pure invasions from a 1 on 1 perspective, everything else has made it harder and harder for pvp and easier for normies. This series will always have pvp as a throwaway of forgotten times but don’t expect anything else. I had a heart attack when the relegated invasion PvP to summon only and it’s just as bad as I thought it would be and that hasn’t changed since.
Ive been having fun dueling but pvp balance is never gonna happen for elden ring i think we just need to accept it. Once ER pvp is out of my system i will go back do ds3 pvp cuz thats where i have the most fun.
It's insane how a lot of issues with the Invasion system could be fixed if they just brought back 6 player limits, made it so you can invade solo hosts and made it so you can't turn off Taunter's Tongue once it's activated.
I think they decided to experiment with casual players in a soulsborne product. What FROM got is an overwhelming amount of new players deciding to tinker with the mechanics of co-op and ganking aspect of pvp, which is detrimental to the pvp side of Elden Ring. Strangely, you the result was different in other games. An example was DS2 pvp, where many players would invade at high levels of the game but the gameplay was balanced.
I was so excited for the pvp improvements in the dlc, but I am sad and disappointed. It could be so great if there were motivations and rewards for online content like in other souls. And more a lot of things. Thank you for the video, so nice.
I mean... Realizing that passive poise was back... Should tell you that Fromsoft has actually no idea what the fuck they are doing in terms of balancing. They still did not catch the memo that weapons live and die by virtue of moveset forward momentum paired with startup frames of the attack...
I do love a lot of the new weapons and skills they added- but it feels like power creep. Many of them are just what we had but scaled all the way up. It makes old weapons feel obsolete
Yeaaa, preaching to the choir here man. It’s really such a shame because when the pvp works well with player provided restrictions on both sides (organized duels/fight clubs with rules) it’s actually one of the most satisfying pvp experiences in this genre of games. Unfortunately that’s like 5-10% of the interactions you will have while trying to pvp. Also not to mention that all the bs that you brought up in this video really bring out the toxic players and it really sours the experience. I’ve decided to just go back to ds3 and host while the game slowly dies until either a new game comes out, or they completely overhaul elden rings pvp. Or at least until they make it enjoyable enough for me to consider it worth it putting up with all the crap.
I think it’s no surprise to anyone but Dark Souls 2 PVP was the peak of the souls franchise and it’s been on a downhill trend ever since Bloodborne and then Dark Souls 3 and now Elden Ring has the worst PvP ever. Sad to see 😢
I hope this video gets outdated but man my heart broke when i did the igon quest and in the end there was no dragon covenant or any covenant for that matter, also nothing fix the net code on pc.
I used to be an avid invader in DS1 back in 2012-2016 where I would consistently win against 1v3 groups even gank squads thanks to the mechanics of that game giving me a fighting chance, since I could get a backstab for invincibility and with hornet ring could 1 shot or close to it fairly easily. Also no AoW so my mechanical skill in dodging and parrying (and toggle switching to negate stunlock) meant I could outplay 99% of players even if I fashion souled and used objectively bad weapons. I started getting into invading again recently this time in ER and its 10x harder. I have to play like a bitch and run to the PvE every single time if its a 2v1 or 3v1 because I can’t outplay my opponents unless they don’t have good AoW 1 buttons to spam and they’re actually the noobiest souls players to ever play the game. DS1 invasions were better in every way. I’m still trying to push through the bullshit in ER pvp but I can see now why a guy like Youwie who used to be into souls PvP since Dark Souls 1 days now exclusively plays PvE challenge runs instead, I might end up doing the same.
I think there are a lot of cool things added. Casters get some “gtf away from me” spells, some pretty cool ashes. Blindspot is great against hyper aggressive tryhards, swift slash for players who don’t have thumbs but need to win, madness torch for those who can’t tike casting or build characters etc
This game core design is for lesser player to feel powerful. It’s baby’s first souls game, and what’s frustrating the most is that it’s almost good. Toning down some thing’s and allowing at least ONE free co-invader will fix things tremendously! Also allow infinite materials and tears would be great as well. I disagree when you said invasion don’t take skill, the reason invaders have to rely on the most overpowered tactics and disengagement is we’re constantly overwhelmed with tons of spamming bullshit so there’s no time to have creative builds if you want to have fun and invasions (Your own footage shows this). While the co-op, lesser players and causals can do anything they wish since it’s a group of them, blues and some pve. Plus they won’t allow a co-invader because the casuals was just lose more often and complain. They literally threw a entire play style under the bus so they can chase the easier market, and don’t worry despite the huge amount of disadvantages they still complain about the "Scary Red Man" you can’t make these people happy. Miyazaki From Software have lost the point of invasions, they should be embarrassed, (but I guess not since they’re making Buco bucks)
As of now the sleepcrossbow is the most overpowered weapon ive ever seen in any fromsoftgame i played Atleast the chainsaw has a setup time that can be interrupted but the sleepbolts can sleep you at close range in one shot through a roll
Hey bro at 5:49 How did you know that player was hiding with mimic veil? I hate when people use that to try to troll but I was wondering is there a strat or something to look out for to find the person hiding like that?
They dgaf about PvP, it kinda sucks and I thought I was alone on that. I miss ds3 man. On top of the mound of issues pc is dead for a lot of arena modes and even invasions sometimes
I really don't like the mindset that "invasions have always been bad" but they can't have ever been THIS bad? From can fix 50% of the problems just by giving the invader a guaranteed teammate. Elden ring players are less intelligent than ds3 players, there's no fixing that besides completely reworking the game but always a 3v2 is much better than always a 3v1. Also 115 poise and you STILL get stunlocked by assblasting aows like morgott's cursed sword and Eleonora's pole blade. 115, which usually requires bullgoat tali and erdtree favor/great jar arsenal depending on what weapon you're using
Idk man. I still think they should have altered the taunters tongue to make it alter how gold summons work. Make it so password summons respawn with you remnant 2 style for seamless co-op but the dlc brought single use consumables and tons of tools and ways for melee builds to do ranged damage
Elden ring PvP over all has been disappointing. It was one of the biggest things I was looking forward to before the game launched. It was such an afterthought on fromsofts end, one step forward, 2 giant steps back
hot take, valid points, great video. I hope Miyazaki's next game with swords and knights puts a main focus on PvP, it would be interesting to see what they can cook up.
We could at least choose the places we don't want to invade. No I don't want o invade first place in limgrave with 3 dudes spamming shit. No, I don't want to invade Radagon, Malenia or Godfrey. If we can choose where not to coop, invaders should be able to do so.
Idk man PvP in Elden ring was always broken. I used to play a ton of PvP in dark souls 2 and 3. But Elden ring i quit that shit after 2 months. Just enjoy the bosses and PvE and have fun with all the absurd ashes and spells.
In every rpg or mmo I played the lighter ur armor the more damage u do if u don’t have poise ull have a 3x stronger attack and look for opportunities to strike the heavier the armor the slower u move the more stamina it takes to swing or dodge roll or recover and u can take a hit and trade hits medium armor should be exactly right in the middle so ppl can have some flexibility with what build actual build ur aiming for at this point in Elden ring they either need to go full mmo darksouls rpg style or make the game more linear with some sort of co op options to have a way easier time playing thru the game with friends
I really miss 3v3 times.... But the broken anime stuff of the base game finally killed it. I suposed that DLC would bring it back. Well.... Now we are further away than ever with all the f*cking anime memes
PvP is clearly just an afterthought in ER. The fact that it wasn't even sensibly included in the lore, other than in Souls, makes me think it really wasn't originally planned. Also the mere existence of jump attacks alone ruined duels for me compared to PvP in Souls. The only fun I have invading is with my level 55 double explosion physick invader. Instakill almost guaranteed and there is still a good chance at that level to meet people that have no idea why you are glowing before blowing up. Doesn't get old for me.
DS3 DLC PVP THE MVP 6 player multiplayer covenants with teams and blues function better and are more heroic than being used as gank tools. In elden ring you kill 2 pw over leveled phantoms, just for them to be replaced by ganking blues instantly when they really don't need help at all, instead of purples that can help kill bosses or be a traitor or a friendly red. all reds I get are usually traitors that help the OP ER host... I don't get it.. Too one-sided with the host having too much power now with taunters tongue.. which is fine.. not completely unwinnable, but I miss the chaos and now the 3v1 they all have swift slash so... duels are basically all broken lol.. A cool invasion area where solo hosts get invaded and rune arc activation triggering invasions and 3v3 should be a thing.. Especially in boss rooms and Especially the iconic ones from base game and dlc
never thought about it realy but the fact that the only time you can be invades is when you are cooping does kinda ruin blues. and makes prety much every invasion a gank squad interaction
Meanwhile I and others on pc are overjoyed with the addition of invasions to seamless coop (it's still not perfect mind you) that it overshadows all the negative feelings I have with the game for a bit Also I see you dig the new knight fashion!
My brother and I are running Ds3 together rn. I have about 1k hours invading/dueling in that game but pretty much moved on until he decided to ask me to play. We're around the Farron area and while he's busy irl I decided to do a few invasions to farm Embers. My first invasion i killed like 10 players over the course of 15min. A flow of blue sentinels, Watchdogs of farron being Watchdogs, the survivalist host sprinting around as a rotation of invaders and phantoms came and went. I was legit having a blast, the ones i did after also having a slew of player turnover and chaos. I truly love these games, and if i want to invade i can always come back to Ds2 and Ds3.
Only thing I disagree about this video is the comment about the ds3 arenas them shits were top tier the Irythill one and lothric castle specifically, lmn start about the ringed city
Grand archives one was ass, the elevation was whack and you could just juke people for an eternity. It was creative though, something that completely died off with this game's arena.
Arena is a swift slash simulator now. The fact that a one shot glitch got power crept by literal intended weapons is hilarious to me
Miyazaki really dropped a GOATed patch and then released a DLC that fucked the PvP scene
Truly unhinged gamer behavior
@@Elden_Cock_Ring he hasn't gotten his monthly feet pics from George R.R. Fartin in a while
Step 1) fix most of the balance issues
Step 2) drop swift slash the very next day
Step 3) refuse to elaborate
they will fix the game in future patches COPIUM
PvP in Souls Game smells Bad
Lol when was the last time miyazaki did anything good for the longevity of the game and community? That guy is clueless
Brand new dlc and the invasion hot spots are still Radagons hallway, Malenias hallway and Radagons boss fight. GGWP
@stevie31 bro that is so damn true lmaoo
i think u can disable invading at certain spots ive just been invading in specific spots doe
@@huntresswizard569yes you can save edit flagged locations. Working as intended.
@@youtubeenjoyer1743how?
Minutes AFK >>> you finally find someone to invade >>> "Host has entered the boss area. Returning to your world"
This game PvP could EASILY be the best of the series, Fromsoftware chose to cater to the lowest common denominator. Thats what happen when you remove by default invasions, great job Michael Zako
The PvP in the dlc is so bad and so spammy now that I actually think it's gonna result in a resurgence for Dark Souls 3 and maybe even 2 for PvP players, because the only reliable way to dodge Swift Slash is to escape to an entirely different game.
Escaping to murky spam, infinite estus and machine gun greatbow? No thanks
DS2 best pvp tho
This is your chance to escape to real life until the next game drops.
Ds3 still cost 60$? Lmao miyazaki clueless
As a person who hates Elden Ring (both PvE and especially PvP) I go back and replay my baby Dark Souls 3 at least every half year to a year and I can absolutely guarantee you the game is *not* dead. Duels in the arena are decently frequent, fight clubs at Pontiff's are still there, covenant summonings are really hot especially the fucking Darkmoons now which is insane to think about (I got like 10 concords just being summoned as a blue and killing multiple invaders in a row) given how poor that covenant was performing back in 2016 and invasions (mostly in the hot zones) are still a go, with the majority of players you invade being solo hosts.
DS3 is also just a better game overall in terms of PvP and whatever exploits remain are nowhere near as bullshit as anything in Elden Ring. Go ahead and urge people to continue the trend giving life to DS3.
It already has
The lone fact that the fire knight greatsword could R1+R1 true combo is all the proof needed that Fromsoft doesn't playtest a damn thing in pvp. Not a single thing for even a single minute.
One missed hitstun value in the code of the biggest DLC ever created isn’t alone a sign of no play testing. Plus they fixed it in like a week. Let’s at least be fair and focus on the stuff worth criticizing
@@FelicificityNormally, they have QA testers trying out basically everything in every possible way to actually test things. There's no way an R1 into R1 true combo could've slipped past them.
Also, that issue existed with the Godslayer Greatsword at either launch or 1.0. They literally just copy pasted the values from the unpatched version of the game, knowing this issue existed.
They did not test this at all.
Either Bull Goats or Solitude. Literally nothing else. Also, the fact that some weapons from the DLC only have the poise damage values from 1.07 shows that they just made the shit and forgot about it. From DOES NOT like PvP. I half expected them to add an item that makes the AI attack the invader like Giant seed or what not.
Watch Vaatividya's most recent video about dlc secrets at around the 7:20 mark
Its common to see people saying that From doesn't care about PvP because its irrelevant or too niche but i think its the other way around. PvP became more "niched" in ER exactly because From don't care about it as much as they did on Dark Souls.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments. I'm the kind of pve player that just likes to help with boss fights and pvp the occasional red along the way. Ive never once tried to trio up for a gank its so incredibly boring. I just wish we could find a nice balance with this and all have a great time together red or otherwise.
To summarize,the DLC pretty much acted like a catalyst to throw the already shaky balance of PvP completely off its kilter with ashes of war so insane that they feel like they don’t even belong in a souls game with how they function
Because let’s be honest,some of the ashes feel like they were very deliberately made to break PvP with ones like swift slash being an example,almost nobody is going to use that against a boss because it wouldn’t stagger it like it does for a player
There’s also how the formula and format for invasions have pretty much stayed the same despite FromSoft having literal years and multiple games to try something new that changes the idea of invasions themselves instead of changing things around them that pretty much just add up to how you get into one to begin with
Invasions themselves also feel like ass since they seem to prioritize putting you against groups that always come prepared to blender you and aren’t even trying to progress through the actual game itself
I know nothing can really be done regarding it,but I would at least like to invade a group that doesn’t feel like they are fully optimized to make the experience miserable so that doing so feels more natural and that you’re fulfilling the role of acting as a consequence of others playing coop instead of just being their punching bag
That's a lot of text, but just came to say that Swift Slash is amazing against bosses
Closes distances really fast, procs status quickly, let's you dash away... It's a top tier AoW in PvE too
Honestly yeah fromsoft has made invading so awful for invaders that you HAVE to use the most OP and min max setups to be able to stand a chance in a 1v3. If the objective is to win a 3v1 then I have to use all the most broken stuff because I know the hosts and summons will
fuckin a well said i agree 110%
Nothing changed? What are you talking about? I now get stuck 4x more often while spawning in. Special thanks to that tree at Belurat. Thanks Miyazaki!
I don't think I can stomach a second playthrough despite having characters ready to walk into the DLC for over a literal year. I am not in a good elden space right now. I'm thinkin.
And the string bell bearing, man... What a disgusting tease. I feel mocked.
What's with the string bell bearing?
@@madserialkiller3394the string bell bearing makes string purchasable from round table, but ONLY string. As far as I’m aware that’s it. Everything else still has to be farmed for the most part. Which is a slap to the face because the item economy is so bad and farming is so mind numbing. So it’s like, here you go, here’s ONE THING you don’t have to farm. Good luck with the rest of the several dozen items that are finite per play through or not purchasable.
@@radjamss6390well whats the point of crafting if u have everything ready to be purchased. Also u get your items back now after match dont you ?
@@Ämyr2006 Well ideally we just wanted some type of vendor that had most of the materials at the very end of the game once you're done with everything. Which would still make the crafting system useful until you're completely done with the last boss/dlc. This would also put everyone on the same playing field because save scumming, duping and CE will exist forever. You also only get your items back in arena, not in invasions nor co op.
@@radjamss6390they added perfume bottles but you still have to do mind numbing farming for the regular perfumes. Even the spark aromatics need Miranda powder.
Weapon balance alone is not gonna save the online scene, the entire multiplayer ecosystem is in desperate need of a complete rework, this is easily the worst its been since Ds1, and DS1 STILL had more life in it.
We need covenants with long term reward tiers, for PvP AND Co-Op, Rune Arcs alone are fundamentally WORTHLESS to online players.
We need better co-op features so people will STOP migrating to the Seamless mod
We need dedicated single player invasion zones
We need blue phatoms that can actually REACH the fight
We need more penalty trade offs for using Spirit Ashes, especially for the Mimic Tear
We need karma systems that keep the balance in check, I dont mean just buffing and nerfing weapons, I mean the LITERAL balance of online interactions, compensation for hosts getting frequently killed during invasions like the Seed of the Tree of Giants, something that can give casuals a _temporary_ edge to keep them from being discouraged from online, aswell as sin "penalties" for invaders, like the Darkmoon Blade invasions, giving those "Lawful" Blue Phantoms something to do besides entering a host invasion 40 seconds after they already died while also giving Invaders what they already wanted which was MORE PvP.
We need actual INCENTIVES so the general player base will actually engage with the online systems, only a relatively smaller fraction of the Souls core-dedicated player base is extrinsically motivated to play these games online for the experience alone, and never has that been more apparent than with Elden Ring
( Good for YOU if you think you dont need any of that, doesnt change the fact that the online population is dying at an alarming rate for THE BEST SELLING Souls Game)
What would the penalty trade off for the mimic tear be?
@@Togre3434 Okay...WITHOUT completely neutering spirits entirely
1st I would rework the cost of Spirits to be a scaling percentage based, so mimic tear will always take 33% of the players HP, and Black Knife Tiche would take lets say... 80% FP
This means people wont need to use hidden cerulean crystal tear (which will no longer work for reasons I will go into) to summon spirits above their mind level, but they also wont have it for literally free.
Second, this cost would be applied to the players Max Cap of HP and FP, think of it like destined death effect, While mimic tear is active you permanently have an HP cap penalty of -33% that can not be healed until the mimic dies, same goes for FP costing spirits
@@Togre3434 I would also open this up as an oppurtunity to make Stamina costing spirits, since the cost is applied directly to the cap itself, it will actually be a meaningful sacrifice
So lets say Oleg for example, would reduce 30-50% of your max stamina until he dies.
This would broaden the strategic appeal of different spirits to synergize with different builds.
Stamina costing melee and tanking spirits for caster/ranged builds
FP Range and Support Spirits for close range Melee builds
you could also further discourage mimic tear abuse making the cost of summoning it have sort of an "ANTI" Radahn great rune effect
-25/30% Max HP, FP, and Stamina
@@sasaki999pro i agreed with everything you said except the penalty trade offs for summoning........thats single player let that be,were talking about multiplayer here thats the issue not mimic tear
@@darkenedpsynoid You don't get it, the problem with summoning spirits is that it is more advantageous to do so then going online, Spirit Summons DONT increase the boss health bar, can be used in conjunction with NPC summons, and don't put you at risk of being invaded, there needs to be more drawbacks because they are siphoning potential multiplayer engagements by costing relatively NOTHING. One Flask at worst depending on your build if even that much. this effectively makes co-oping with randoms irrelevant which stifles the online population.
Offline Summons should not be drastically more effective than summoning another player, they should be reserved as an emergency tool for people who literally CANT get online assistance. Otherwise it discourages people from engaging with the online components entirely to the detriment of a fundamental core aspect of Souls-games.
Me, returning to the arena after a year hiatus:
"Oh, cool, multiplayer is back!" **Immediately gets stun-locked from three angles by Claws of Night AOW for three minutes**
i was really hoping for the dlc to unlock the player limit, it's was already dumb and annoying to deal with all the stuff in the base game... but now that everything has high damage, high poise and stagger damage, perfec tracking, good foward momentum, a lot of particle effects, and besically being the most anime like as possible, makes it really suffering for us, the invaders.
ok, we have gotten good stuff, like the pvp system and the wex dust, but cmon, they haven't even touched the taunters tounge, an item that has been so exploitable since the released. or what about the blues spawning every 2 minutes after killing one phantom, that also needs a balance check.
i think we, as a community should send some of our complains to FS, not sure if that will work tho. sadly we would need a really good organization, kinda like the type from #SaveTF2 movement..
edit: 13:15 i see why JeeNine said that ENDURE was necessary...
Feel the same😢
I miss pre DLC, it wasn't perfect, but if you played your cards right you could thrive; being a shitter meant using PSSS, just a strong setup. Now the skill floor is so low and you can literally push 1 button and be a threat, it's so lame
It’s joever
"get fckn blasted times, colorized, 1934"
@@bluegaston
what really kills me is how we got absolutely no new infusions for intelligence+faith, there’s a whole subset of spells and incantations that literally can’t be used to their full potential simply because they have absolutely zero melee options
Idk if anyone has seen that one interview where Miyazaki said the reason why the game is like this pvp and covenant wise is because they intentionally tried to make the most bare bones as possible to simplify it for other people. Only in turn they made everyone including their target audience want way more respect for the multiplayer and pvp scene. It's just one of those moments where FromSoft is way out of touch with their community on the ideals of what made their past souls games so long lasting.
Everything has forward momentum now. And the crucible backstep talisman is beyond broken.
@@rikkabilly the back step tali is so annoying
Homie never played dark souls 2 confirmed
Bro never played ds2
@@SgtJager00 nah its the best thing they added
@@gadfli_1076 it's broken bro..... If you like that you don't like skilled battles.... I mean the idea was good but wrong implemented for pvp
It's pretty clear that fromsoftware doesn't care (at least when they are developing new stuff) about PvP. One single test with swift slash in a PvP scenario would be enough to see that thing completely destroys multiplayer fights. Also, I would like to know what the deal is with making spammable stuff. Why make the vast majority of AOW spammable?
Because it's the new light attack weapons are just magic sticks that can also be used as a sword. Everything is the waves of piss sword. Just an aow catalyst
To have their cake and eat it too. Make the game harder and challenging for vets, but then also provide spam tools so that a monkey can beat the game blindfolded (they will still complain about difficulty)
The DLC has become cancer now. The Anime AOW, spells and incantations have become doomsday for so many players.
@@matth464 yeeeeeaaaaahhh
"Anime was a mistake" -Hayao Miyazaki
the anime bullshit is fine it’s existed since dark souls 2, the issue is how inconceivably busted it all is
DS3 had anime AOW, you had paired greatsword with backflip that send flames and scythe doing very long anime combo
@@ni9274they were shit tho
Jagers elden ring pessimism arc is truly relatable
Finally someone who understands how cancer ER invasions are. My thoughts exactly, I'm not having fun running away for 5 years just to cheese 1-shot phantoms before they can blender me. Adding mana into souls games was a mistake, we need to return to the simpler times of spells having limited number of uses.
Honestly, the PvP scene in this game has become something unrecognizable to the PvP scene of earlier games and has started to lose me.
I don't like equipment swapping mid-fight and think it's more obnoxious than tactical.
I don't like how zoning fights turn into people running around in circles rather than fighting.
I don't like how characterized builds suddenly stopped existing (or at least became a minority).
Even back in Dark Souls 3 you had people running around as particular knights or spellcasters or rogues in those various archetypes. We used to _mock_ people who went meta-golem mode in Dark Souls 1 & 2. Now it's the mainstay and I can't say it's enjoyable anymore. Now when you ask people why they built their character the only output you get is "because X is meta" or "because Y is OP." At first arena used to exist as a sort of "containment" hole for this kind of drivel thinking but now it's horribly leeched out into the main game as well because outnumbered invaders had to grab "best of the best" or get flattened in guaranteed 2v1's.
I miss when PvP was simple "opt in/opt out." When people didn't put so much gravity on a win/loss but instead had "win some lose some" mindset. I miss randomly invading a goofy world where the Host and their phantoms just create a weird scene. PvP in the past used to be really fun, now I think people only convince themselves they're having fun.
well said
@@darkenedpsynoid Since dks2 the pvp's meta has changed.
Now the passive gameplay has a match up on the aggressive gameplay because of the disappearance of the on the backstep, attack cancels or even super parries.
Today we have a pvp or AoW doing more damage than a bs or a parry. Er pvp is more about build than skill.
AoWs are just an illusion to hide the poverty of the gameplay.
If you want a Balance PvP you must make agressiv and passiv gameplay viable.
Then you must incorporate some skill mechanics which would reward skill player rather than theorycrafting player Aka super parry.
I've made several support tickets in the Bandai namco site regarding this. I advise everyone else watching this video does the same.
They actually do review & read your support submissions. The word needs to get out.
their support is answered by AI lmao..
@mute159 better than nothing.
@@ninjacom3 worse than nothing
once i had seen everything the dlc has to offer when it comes to pvp, i just said to myself i'm retired from pvp.....the only time i will do it is if im helping someboby in their world or vice versa..........there's so much broken stuff that came with this dlc it's alot to unpack
There's a lot of balance issues, both big and small, in both in pvp and pve. I'm highly doubtful that they did proper playtesting, if at all. I mean, how did swift slash get approved?? On top of no fundamental improvements to the multiplayer system, other than the ability for summoning pool users to toggle off individual pools (which is arguably worse for invaders because you're more likely to get fog walled), the pvp is worse than it was before the DLC
no qa was done indeed, new weapon classes have old poise values from 1.07.
They did playtesting for PVE that's for sure, you cannot make a game of this size without any playtesting. Swift Slash isn't that strong in PVE that's why it was approved
@@ni9274 for pve maybe overall taking out the worst out of the mix, but they basically didn't look at player equipment at all, most stuff from dlc is a)broken by design b)broken by having too much dmg (smithscript sacred, claws of night doing 30% more than any other claw, bhb) c)broken by having too little damage (even within basegame classes such as the obsidian lamina) d) having outdated poise values and glitches. very fun. I'm really not even joking when I say most player equipment, done a pretty deep analysis going item by item. Lot of it is fixable, but it's kinda gross
By far the worst things about the DLC
- No covenants
- No multiplayer player limit increase
Man I wish the Oath Seeker ‘fit had more poise 😢
11:40 Facts. After 20 mins of invasions i was done with the pvp, I've never been so bored.
We are at the skill-less pic moment in souls history
Ringed city got FIVE balance patches after release. We haven't even gotten a singular one yet. Balance changes are guaranteed to come.
And PSA to people: please don't mistake your youtube and chat section ranting for "Feedback". No one hears you. No one will EVER hear you. If you want changes - SUBMIT A FUCK1NG TICKET. This is the most direct and effective way to actually deliver feedback to developer's ears. And they do listen. So many people had their specific requests heard and got an actual human response.
Balance patches are like cutting weeds without uprooting them, there are things fundamentally wrong with PvP in this game and the DLC did nothing to fix that. There's no colosseum maps/gamemodes, no covenants and no increased multiplayer limit at least for the new area.
Maining invasions is simultaneously the hardest and least rewarding thing to do in the game. It fees like an absolute trap and even winning isnt fun most of the time. I primarily invade and Ive gone through 20-30 hours at RL 25-50-80-125-150. They all have issues but are unified in that only about 15-20% of your time yields rewarding or fun encounters. I think im going to just finish out the PVE and hang it up with this game honestly. Does not feel like skill and effort are rewarded enough.
The problem is that its now set in stone, fundamentally broken. Before there were changes that couldve been made to the world wide aow/spells that kind of made them bearable. But the fix in balancing those was to give every melee moveset/aow worldwide tracking/damage. This wasnt the fix we wanted but now everythings broken and its an anime fighting game. Im just accepting it as never gonna be as good as the souls series pvp wise and just letting it go. Its cheese or be cheesed and thats just how it is now... You can still have fun if youre just cheesing, watching steel's bone bow vid was a great representation of that, but that isnt what we wanted at all.
Also my statement on fashion souls. Your character is always a representation of your out of game self. So with the fatties and goblins? Well... Enough said.
They literally announced a bigger balance patch is coming, it's not *set in stone* just yet..
Now what that patch will do to the game we'll see, it'll make it or break it
@@madserialkiller3394 i mean fundamentally in the case of the actual movesets. Now we have a collosal that shoots you 30 yards forward, another malenia katana. A katana that literally teleports you around. Backhand blades and swift slash. Hornsent curved sword AoW with near unlimited tracking. It's just become a ranged game and no balance on damage or hitstun can change it because of the animations themselves.
@@Wraggle3000 I heard someone once call Elden Ring a cover shooter
It’s hard to even talk about because it could be so much better and we’ve known that for two years. I want them to admit the multiplayer isn’t part of the escape or fantasy. It just checks off a box.
Biggest issue I have with the co-op side of multiplayer is the insane hp on basically every boss. Certain bosses, especially optional or very late into the expansion ones, are incredibly tanky. Makes status procs like frost and bleed feel almost essential to get through their heath bar. Final boss with two other phantoms has like 80k hp or something if not more.
It really makes me not want to be summoned for DLC bosses because every boss takes an incredibly long time due to my low damage no matter what my setup tends to be.
I’m not sure if the damage I do correlates to the scadutree lvl of the host i join, I’ve only had 2 successful coop sessions with randoms fighting bayle 😂😂
@@spoop3074 yeah I felt like that’s maybe how From made it function which would make sense. Yet I’ve still never been able to do reasonable damage anytime I’ve been summoned. And yeah I don’t think I’ve ever beat Bayle with a host lmao. So much HP
Same experience. I dont play the game anymore. Literally no reason to boot it up.
Yoo I was the guy at 0:37 lol. I got so excited when I saw you cause I watch a lot of your videos and I prob only won cause I got lucky with the 2h shamshir robbery lmao. Love your content.
@@therightone002 ggs man it was a good fight!
I feel like I've had this opinion for a while and I've been told I am crazy and just bad.
I really appreciate you putting down these thoughts into this video man, I couldn't have said it better.
To add on, this is the first soulslike where people are so extremely against invasions, even in a game where you've never had such an advantage over the 'bad red man' that people are okay with the fact that invaders shouldn't be able to play, or need to cheese to win.
Honestly, the power creep was set in place at the very foundations of the game.
Wait, was there a time where invasion weren't just running from anime spam and using low time to kill weapons to catch phantoms off guard?
Yes, in DS3
@@anitaremenarova6662 Daym, I need to get me a copy of that.
I play on console and have gotten some decent invasions. I've only ever seen swift slash used by arena shitters. I think the PC community is worse.
"But but but they added cool funny Chinese sword!! Xe wao piao piao., laugh at the meme! Haha french=bad amirite? Just ignore the pvps current state! The dlc is perfect stop critizing it i paid 40 dollars for this!!"
Funny chinese sword with european moveset, Modeled by old english accent family
What the hell are you talking about, what Chinese sword and what's funny about it? And French? Huh? Is this some sort of Reddit circlejerk I'm not fat enough to understand?
@@MeneltirFalmaro I think they're referring to the Milady.
@@MeneltirFalmaro”im not fat enough to understand” I’m stealing that lol
Thats the most jobless comment I’ve ever heard.
I really had so much hope for pvp watching the trailer. At the very end seeing of the trailer when we get the shot of the followers of miquella posted up together like that. It really made me think we would get some kind of increase to player limit. Then We proceed to get nothing /:
The state of pvp now in Elden Ring is just trashy
Elden Ring is an anime simulator since the DLC, as far as weapons and spells go. So much of the new stuff is just outright unpunishable and overloaded with particle effects. So much of it just isn't fun to match against, whether in 1:1s or invasions.
They had the opportunity to make the coolest arenas with obstacles and buildings for like 3v3s but no :(
I recently watched your video on low level pvp and trust me, its even worst now. I made a new character after finishing the dlc and did some multiplayer at rl30 and as a person who both summons as invades i can assure you its a shit show.
Low level cooping or low level invasions (especially at stormveil) had gotten absolutely awful after the dlc. IDK why but at that level (both coopers and invaders), people just loves to bring backhand blades and damnation GS into mutiplayers or gimmick sleep build (with sleep arrows and sometimes shotgun). Also you have like 0 bleed resistance so getting hit by a clean bleed swift slash will unironically one shot you also the claws of night will destroy you too, you literally get bleed proc in 1 hit so you just get stunlock on the spot until you’re unalive.
Also love the AC6 soundtrack 10/10 music choice. Another thing, fuck youtube guidelines, my comment got deleted because of the synonym for unalive.
Wow thanks for letting us know low level invasions suck too, you just saved me the effort of making a new lvl 60 character just to find out that meta is bs too
So glad the glazing is over. I think people excuse way too much from FromSoft.
They could drop a gacha game and neckbeards would still say it's 10/10
I have watched this video a few times now to digest everything. I cant agree with you more. I think DLC is gonna be what kills this game in the long-run if there is no major balancing done. I was invading (with drip) for awhile and just getting annihilated so fast that I couldnt even tell if i was fighting a dedicated gank or 'honest' pvers trying out the new anti-invader tools miyahacki gave them. I respecced my favorite build (str/int) to pure caster and just been one shotting golds from afar and trying to have a decent fight with the host. Sucks having to carry bhb with you everywhere. Oneshotting with frenzy burst, spamming gravity missile or proccing crazy bleed is the best way to win an invasion now but it isn't satisfying. I made a dragon themed character last night to follow along with you in your new beggars run. Never thought i would go back to low level invasions but its more fun than i remembered.
tldr; can hear the dissatisfaction in your voice in this video. Know you are not alone. Hope I can catch a stream soon. ggs & wp
i literally predicted they won't do no pvp enhancement
Sigh I miss being an Aldrich Faithful. The moment I realized how the pvp was structured and thay invaders had no help I instanly checked out unless I'm fucking around with friends. Im not even a pvp play at heart im pve first. But man u played DS3 for HOURS after finishing a playthrough because of the covenant system and pvp alone.
I honestly loved ds3 arena especially the firelink arena because of the terrain, and you could do jumping plunges off of the sideways tower, there was a pillar to counter magic spam, it wasnt all flat. Basically the ideal arena in my opinion. I hope there is some sort of free dlc addon for elden ring that will add more colosseum maps.
fog walling got worse, spawns are beyond shit, PvP has become so damn annoying, it is crazy. Swift slash, blind spot, back shit blades. Like the DLC gave shitters everything they need to compete with people who actually have some sort of skill. Imagine fighting a 3 man gank with this new stupid auto-aim bow, sleep cross bow and swift slash...Like this is just unfun. And yes I know we are the invaders but ffs we already suffer so much, make the PvP at least more enjoyable and balanced since in the end of the day after the DLC hype this game will be left with the "special kind" of people who will make sure invaders will have a hard time.
I've stopped pvping a year ago. Returned back to DS3 pvping, saw nightmares even more lurid. Then just gave up entirely.
pvp was always trash, running away is optimal, weapon switching makes you play passive so you dont get clipped by something random and optimal builds make you look like a clown like double spears.
for invasions they should just let you play as an npc and have a few dedicated areas for pvp invasions.
2:25 I'm glad I'm not the only one who mocks blind spot spammers like this.
Agree with pretty much everything said. I also wish we could filter where we can invade when choosing near/far. Half the time it's a group walking through a boss door.
I guess you don't read patch notes?? They gave you that option almost a month ago in patch 1.12.
I always laugh when I see people that think the PVP is at the forefront for these games. That’s long past. DS1 was the last game that had pure invasions from a 1 on 1 perspective, everything else has made it harder and harder for pvp and easier for normies. This series will always have pvp as a throwaway of forgotten times but don’t expect anything else. I had a heart attack when the relegated invasion PvP to summon only and it’s just as bad as I thought it would be and that hasn’t changed since.
Ive been having fun dueling but pvp balance is never gonna happen for elden ring i think we just need to accept it. Once ER pvp is out of my system i will go back do ds3 pvp cuz thats where i have the most fun.
💯💯💯💯
It's insane how a lot of issues with the Invasion system could be fixed if they just brought back 6 player limits, made it so you can invade solo hosts and made it so you can't turn off Taunter's Tongue once it's activated.
Preach bro. That was a good listen.
I think they decided to experiment with casual players in a soulsborne product. What FROM got is an overwhelming amount of new players deciding to tinker with the mechanics of co-op and ganking aspect of pvp, which is detrimental to the pvp side of Elden Ring.
Strangely, you the result was different in other games. An example was DS2 pvp, where many players would invade at high levels of the game but the gameplay was balanced.
I was so excited for the pvp improvements in the dlc, but I am sad and disappointed. It could be so great if there were motivations and rewards for online content like in other souls. And more a lot of things. Thank you for the video, so nice.
I mean... Realizing that passive poise was back... Should tell you that Fromsoft has actually no idea what the fuck they are doing in terms of balancing.
They still did not catch the memo that weapons live and die by virtue of moveset forward momentum paired with startup frames of the attack...
I do love a lot of the new weapons and skills they added- but it feels like power creep. Many of them are just what we had but scaled all the way up. It makes old weapons feel obsolete
Yeaaa, preaching to the choir here man.
It’s really such a shame because when the pvp works well with player provided restrictions on both sides (organized duels/fight clubs with rules) it’s actually one of the most satisfying pvp experiences in this genre of games. Unfortunately that’s like 5-10% of the interactions you will have while trying to pvp.
Also not to mention that all the bs that you brought up in this video really bring out the toxic players and it really sours the experience.
I’ve decided to just go back to ds3 and host while the game slowly dies until either a new game comes out, or they completely overhaul elden rings pvp. Or at least until they make it enjoyable enough for me to consider it worth it putting up with all the crap.
I think it’s no surprise to anyone but Dark Souls 2 PVP was the peak of the souls franchise and it’s been on a downhill trend ever since Bloodborne and then Dark Souls 3 and now Elden Ring has the worst PvP ever. Sad to see 😢
I hope this video gets outdated but man my heart broke when i did the igon quest and in the end there was no dragon covenant or any covenant for that matter, also nothing fix the net code on pc.
I really wanna know how overhead stance and swift slash dropped from the same dlc
I used to be an avid invader in DS1 back in 2012-2016 where I would consistently win against 1v3 groups even gank squads thanks to the mechanics of that game giving me a fighting chance, since I could get a backstab for invincibility and with hornet ring could 1 shot or close to it fairly easily. Also no AoW so my mechanical skill in dodging and parrying (and toggle switching to negate stunlock) meant I could outplay 99% of players even if I fashion souled and used objectively bad weapons. I started getting into invading again recently this time in ER and its 10x harder. I have to play like a bitch and run to the PvE every single time if its a 2v1 or 3v1 because I can’t outplay my opponents unless they don’t have good AoW 1 buttons to spam and they’re actually the noobiest souls players to ever play the game. DS1 invasions were better in every way. I’m still trying to push through the bullshit in ER pvp but I can see now why a guy like Youwie who used to be into souls PvP since Dark Souls 1 days now exclusively plays PvE challenge runs instead, I might end up doing the same.
I think there are a lot of cool things added. Casters get some “gtf away from me” spells, some pretty cool ashes. Blindspot is great against hyper aggressive tryhards, swift slash for players who don’t have thumbs but need to win, madness torch for those who can’t tike casting or build characters etc
This game core design is for lesser player to feel powerful. It’s baby’s first souls game, and what’s frustrating the most is that it’s almost good. Toning down some thing’s and allowing at least ONE free co-invader will fix things tremendously! Also allow infinite materials and tears would be great as well.
I disagree when you said invasion don’t take skill, the reason invaders have to rely on the most overpowered tactics and disengagement is we’re constantly overwhelmed with tons of spamming bullshit so there’s no time to have creative builds if you want to have fun and invasions (Your own footage shows this).
While the co-op, lesser players and causals can do anything they wish since it’s a group of them, blues and some pve. Plus they won’t allow a co-invader because the casuals was just lose more often and complain. They literally threw a entire play style under the bus so they can chase the easier market, and don’t worry despite the huge amount of disadvantages they still complain about the "Scary Red Man" you can’t make these people happy.
Miyazaki From Software have lost the point of invasions, they should be embarrassed, (but I guess not since they’re making Buco bucks)
Bhb and its consequences for Elden Ring Pvp
As of now the sleepcrossbow is the most overpowered weapon ive ever seen in any fromsoftgame i played
Atleast the chainsaw has a setup time that can be interrupted but the sleepbolts can sleep you at close range in one shot through a roll
The PvP/Invasions is just bad
But the story, however
is honestly pretty solid (my opinion)
with Elden Ring
Hey bro at 5:49
How did you know that player was hiding with mimic veil? I hate when people use that to try to troll but I was wondering is there a strat or something to look out for to find the person hiding like that?
Yea they prob never fix it the dlc added absolutly nothing for pvp tells you how much they care about it....
SWIFT SLASH! *Bleed Proc*
SWIFT SLASH! *Bleed Proc*
SWIFT SLASH! *Bleed Proc*
SWIFT SLASH! *Bleed Proc*
Still need to patch out the chainsaw an healing glitchs. So this crap players dont use it cause their losing an invasion or match in the arena
People complaining about dlc cheese are the same people that ruin arena by being hard swapping sweat lords exploiting the equip load system.
I actually beat Bayle on my first attempt. It was my first REAL attempt after several practice attempts.
i just spawned igon, i didn't laugh so much in a while with an npc xDDD
They dgaf about PvP, it kinda sucks and I thought I was alone on that. I miss ds3 man. On top of the mound of issues pc is dead for a lot of arena modes and even invasions sometimes
Can you blame them? We waited for so long just to get 3 identical maps (one with pillars, big whoop) and boring-ass gamemodes.
15:53 reject t-bags
return to dung pot
I really don't like the mindset that "invasions have always been bad" but they can't have ever been THIS bad? From can fix 50% of the problems just by giving the invader a guaranteed teammate. Elden ring players are less intelligent than ds3 players, there's no fixing that besides completely reworking the game but always a 3v2 is much better than always a 3v1. Also 115 poise and you STILL get stunlocked by assblasting aows like morgott's cursed sword and Eleonora's pole blade. 115, which usually requires bullgoat tali and erdtree favor/great jar arsenal depending on what weapon you're using
Idk man.
I still think they should have altered the taunters tongue to make it alter how gold summons work. Make it so password summons respawn with you remnant 2 style for seamless co-op but the dlc brought single use consumables and tons of tools and ways for melee builds to do ranged damage
Elden ring PvP over all has been disappointing. It was one of the biggest things I was looking forward to before the game launched. It was such an afterthought on fromsofts end, one step forward, 2 giant steps back
The PVP community failed by having any expectations re From and PVP in the first place.
Lotta missing movesets too and the armor is all garbage minus like 2 sets. So my PVP kit didnt change at all
hot take, valid points, great video. I hope Miyazaki's next game with swords and knights puts a main focus on PvP, it would be interesting to see what they can cook up.
We could at least choose the places we don't want to invade. No I don't want o invade first place in limgrave with 3 dudes spamming shit. No, I don't want to invade Radagon, Malenia or Godfrey. If we can choose where not to coop, invaders should be able to do so.
Idk man PvP in Elden ring was always broken. I used to play a ton of PvP in dark souls 2 and 3. But Elden ring i quit that shit after 2 months. Just enjoy the bosses and PvE and have fun with all the absurd ashes and spells.
This game got the most broken weapons and spells and the pvp is absolutely terrible
WHERE ARE THE COVENANTS
Its OVER bro!! Lets move to DS3
yes
pvp in elden ring was always bad but i did play 1500 hours of it. now its full dragonball and less and less cloack and dagger. i'm done
We got some good weapons with cooool anime attacks like spine break dance an the ganks. Elden ring: sh aow d of the erdtree 😅
In every rpg or mmo I played the lighter ur armor the more damage u do if u don’t have poise ull have a 3x stronger attack and look for opportunities to strike the heavier the armor the slower u move the more stamina it takes to swing or dodge roll or recover and u can take a hit and trade hits medium armor should be exactly right in the middle so ppl can have some flexibility with what build actual build ur aiming for at this point in Elden ring they either need to go full mmo darksouls rpg style or make the game more linear with some sort of co op options to have a way easier time playing thru the game with friends
I really miss 3v3 times.... But the broken anime stuff of the base game finally killed it. I suposed that DLC would bring it back. Well.... Now we are further away than ever with all the f*cking anime memes
yep
PvP is clearly just an afterthought in ER. The fact that it wasn't even sensibly included in the lore, other than in Souls, makes me think it really wasn't originally planned. Also the mere existence of jump attacks alone ruined duels for me compared to PvP in Souls.
The only fun I have invading is with my level 55 double explosion physick invader. Instakill almost guaranteed and there is still a good chance at that level to meet people that have no idea why you are glowing before blowing up. Doesn't get old for me.
DS3 DLC PVP THE MVP
6 player multiplayer covenants with teams and blues function better and are more heroic than being used as gank tools.
In elden ring you kill 2 pw over leveled phantoms, just for them to be replaced by ganking blues instantly when they really don't need help at all, instead of purples that can help kill bosses or be a traitor or a friendly red. all reds I get are usually traitors that help the OP ER host... I don't get it..
Too one-sided with the host having too much power now with taunters tongue.. which is fine.. not completely unwinnable, but I miss the chaos and now the 3v1 they all have swift slash so... duels are basically all broken lol..
A cool invasion area where solo hosts get invaded and rune arc activation triggering invasions and 3v3 should be a thing..
Especially in boss rooms and Especially the iconic ones from base game and dlc
never thought about it realy but the fact that the only time you can be invades is when you are cooping does kinda ruin blues. and makes prety much every invasion a gank squad interaction
Meanwhile I and others on pc are overjoyed with the addition of invasions to seamless coop (it's still not perfect mind you) that it overshadows all the negative feelings I have with the game for a bit
Also I see you dig the new knight fashion!
My brother and I are running Ds3 together rn. I have about 1k hours invading/dueling in that game but pretty much moved on until he decided to ask me to play. We're around the Farron area and while he's busy irl I decided to do a few invasions to farm Embers. My first invasion i killed like 10 players over the course of 15min. A flow of blue sentinels, Watchdogs of farron being Watchdogs, the survivalist host sprinting around as a rotation of invaders and phantoms came and went. I was legit having a blast, the ones i did after also having a slew of player turnover and chaos. I truly love these games, and if i want to invade i can always come back to Ds2 and Ds3.
Only thing I disagree about this video is the comment about the ds3 arenas them shits were top tier the Irythill one and lothric castle specifically, lmn start about the ringed city
Grand archives one was ass, the elevation was whack and you could just juke people for an eternity. It was creative though, something that completely died off with this game's arena.
Fuk that, where's ur dragonbolt grease
How many of these features did you actually expect to be added with the DLC?
At least some add ons to the colosseum's wouldn't have been much to ask.