Autumn Olive And Honeysuckle Deer Rant
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2020
- If you are coming to this video for tips on how to get rid of or remove Autumn Olive or Honeysuckle, then you have come to the wrong place. Instead if you have it, learn to manage it and enjoy the many advantages that Autumn Olive and Honeysuckle offer a variety of wildlife populations or deer herds. Both get a bad rap because they are not "money trees" and are labeled as invasive. However even native box elder trees get the same bad rap, because they are not money trees. often when you remove Autumn Olive what you replace it with, is a much lower value to wildlife or no value at all. If your goal is to remove Autumn Olive and replace the habitat with tree tubes of hardwoods, this video is not for you. If your goal is to grow future boards per foot instead of wildlife, this video is not for you. If your goal is to remove every Autumn Olive or Honeysuckle that you see, I hope that I can change your mind because often that cave man mentality can destroy and harm wildlife populations, as well as your own wildlife goals. Please repeat after me, "I have Autumn Olive (or Honeysuckle) and I will not destroy wildlife populations or my own wildlife goals, by removing it". Here is why you should learn to manage and enjoy, Autumn Olive and Honeysuckle.
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I've hunted in places where honeysuckle is so thick that when you climb a tree you cant see the ground because of honeysuckle. I personally hate it and autumn olive. I cut and spray tordon as much as I can. Yeah if may be the first to turn green and last to turn brown but it also makes it extremely hard to Turkey hunt in the timber in spring time due to such limited visibility.
You are the first person I have heard speak positively of these invasive spieces. The agencies who planted it have admitted to their mistakes and now are attempting to correct the problem. I have personally helped them in their efforts. Prescribed fire is used alot on state grounds along with cut and spray.
I will favor native Forbes and herbaceous species, the 4 proper layers of a forest and native prairie grasses.
I hope that you are also not in favor of the Asian carp.....
I agree wholeheartedly with you Doug! I grew up on a small farm in Southern Illinois back in the fifties and sixties. Our forest land was open and had good oak, hickory and other hardwoods growing there. Squirrel hunting was excellent. I remember when the bush honeysuckle first started appearing and we weren't aware of what it would become. The woods are now a disaster. After a timber harvest, it spread like crazy. Hardwood seedlings don't have a chance. You can hardly walk through the woods now. I have cut and tordoned countless bushes but it is impossible to get ahead of it. Thankfully I had sense enough to stop the autumn olive when it appeared and it is controlled. Even if the honeysuckle attracted deer like crazy, what would be the use if you can't see 10 feet in any direction?
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! Keep this flow on full Jeff! Thank you so much!!!
I feel like stenciling this hyperlink on my neighbor’s house. They recently accused me of “neglecting my clear cuts” and easements because of the honeysuckle and autumn olive. It’ only gets in their way when they’re trespassing (they can’t seem to find my brush hog trails i made for us and the deer) its only making them jealous because we’re loaded with the areas rabbits song birds and
turkeys galore. I just told them I need Something to look at while waiting for the deer to show up! We didn’t buy the land for manicured timber and snow mobiles. 89 acres of HABITAT for them not us. This is important for our children and legacy as land owners.
I have strips of autumn olive strips on my property.I mow a path so I can get through it.Stuff grows really fast.And yes it is very thick.Thanks Jeff.
You are welcome D! AO is Incredible for creating deer trails thru too! Easy to make deer move where you want them to, thru AO.
I know some people who need to watch your video. Have lots of autumn olive on old ag field and wildlife love the security it provides. Keep up the great work Jeff!
Thanks Phil...really good habitat for old fields. And can easily be controlled!
Autumn Olive is an excellent nurse plant. Because it's a nitrogen fixer and can withstand a lot of abuse, I plant next to food plot trees and bushes. Cut it back heavily in late winter early spring and the nitrogen nodules on the roots release into the soil when the plant starts its spring growth. It will fertilize the tree or bush you want to survive and it will protect preferred browse that it's next to. I plant them extremely close within 2 to 3 ft. That keeps the deer off the Chestnut and cherry trees that I plant and when they're tall enough to no longer be in danger I just cut the Autumn Olive down completely. As the video says, it is excellent for cover. Plus, it ain't going anywhere, and it's free, so why not use it?
Incredible points Marcus...I think I need to create a video just for Autumn Olive. Much more valuable than some folks believe.
Thank YOU!
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 yes, people don't understand that Autumn Olive is opportunistic. It pops up in spaces that are lacking the natural cover that would be present if we didn't keep mowing everything down. Nature is going to fill the void, one way or another. If we don't put something out there, nature will. I use it instead of switchgrass to provide cover. Deer won't bed in it per se, but they will bad adjacent to it and it's very good to make funnels with. And as you so rightly recognized in a video, once it gets a little bit of shade it starts to die back. And as for other wildlife, it does provide a lot of cover and food. Thanks again for the videos.
Great info....thanks for sharing. Nice to have someone tell it like it is!!! We had some Autumn Olive on our farm in Buffalo. It worked great for screening and giving the deer cover.
Bob
You are welcome Bob! You see that everywhere...hard to beat for most wildlife species. The only reason it gets a bad rap is because it is non native and it is not a timber tree. There are really no true negatives about it as it relates to wildlife and quality wildlife habitat.
Jeff, at one end of my hunting area , the autumn olive is super thick, for about 50yds by 25 yds wide. My question is, should I now a 3 ft wide trail into it & a couple of small openings in it, or should I just leave it alone ? It's so thick , I can't walk through it.
Thanks for the advice on a/o. I had asked u about it a month ago.. as it and honeysuckle are taking over our retired pasture here in Wv. Glad we have it now..
Definately!! You can create pockets within it over diversity... pollinators, early successional growth, Switchgrass...some of my most successful clients have it all! It is awesome...
It will take over in 20-30 years...but so will anything else. Learning how to manage any form of habitat is best...to create habitat edge and diversity, within a bounty for all wildlife.
Enjoy!
You are going to regret it. Stop honeysuckle now before it's too late.
You and your videos always make me think and look at or for different things on the properties I hunt and I can never thank you enough for that cant wait for deer season to start so I can go sit in my stand
I'm in Columbiana County, Northeast Ohio, thanks a lot for all the videos. I look forward to them every morning. I have a farm here in Ohio that I have started QDMA on because of you and your videos.
Hey Jeff, we cleared a bunch of Autumn Olive off of my parents, and my two parent's two neighbors did the same. One field was probably 20 acres -- pretty solid -- with autumn olive. Pheasants live and die on the road, rabbits are gone, and the deer are elsewhere.
One thing most people don't understand, activating the seed bank is easy -- add sunlight. But the deer typically eat it to the ground.
Thanks for the informative video Jeff! Are your thoughts the same on buckthorn here in SE Wisconsin? Keep up the good work 👌
What’s your opinion on buckthorn. Here in southern Wisconsin it’s everywhere. It’s shade tolerant and browse tolerant so it can pretty much thrive anywhere. When it’s in a hardwoods it fine because it dosent lower the diversity. But when it takes over an open areas and gets big. It smothers out and outcompetes everything. It’s so dense there is nothing growing underneath it. Nothing. Just bare soil and dead sticks. When it gets like this it doesn’t offer the best bedding habitat either. There is hardly any browse in this 40 acre area. The deer typically bed in browse pockets in this thicket and in areas of diversity. It makes it extremely difficult to hunt because there is hardly any trees big enough for a tree stand and the deer are on pretty random movements because of the lack of edge in this 40 acres. You can probably see 50-80 yards when you get down At a deers level. I am talking about a mature 40+ yr old stand of buckthorn. personally think buckthorn is worse than autumn olive and honeysuckle. There is dead honey suckle everywhere in this buckthorn thicket because the buckthorn gets taller. The only way I can think to improve this area is opening up pockets to let sunlight in and thinking up some areas. Also maybe clearing a few trails that head to ag fields that you could plant with clover, rye or brassicas.
Have you ever seen a property in this situation, this was a cow pasture 40-50 yrs ago now it’s 90% mature buckthorn the size of your leg or torso, and a few dead ash and elm trees.
Kill them. Buckthorn is spreading like crazy here.
Thanks for this one, Jeff. Honestly, I wish I had either honeysuckle or AO on my property. Just had a friend have his landowner rip out around 10 acres of AO... he said the deer disappeared.
What are your thoughts on prickly ash? Keep, remove, or just open up pockets in it for bedding and trails for traveling?
The Ohio farm we hunt is full of honey suckle. At first I didn’t like it and would rip it out of the ground as I walked by. It wasn’t until deer season I noticed it was the last green in the woods. Once the leaves dropped, I was shocked to see the deer vacuum them up as they went through. And a bonus, the turkey love the seeds!!
Great video, I watch every video you produce,I don’t see autumn olive here, I see a little honey suckle but I do know that you know what your talking about.this video was all new information to me but I am very glad to learn about it, once again Thanks alot
What a great presentation. You have changed my mind about the two species of shrubs that I thought should be eliminated. Great food for thought and I now feel much better about Honeysucle and Autumn Olive that have taken over much of my property. I have a lot of deer and other wildlife that I did not have in the 70's.
If honeysuckle grows under a mature oak and outcompetes everything else under that oak, what happens when the oak tree dies? Would honeysuckle not be the only thing left growing in the area that was once occupied by the oak? Wouldn't the entire forest eventually turn to honeysuckle, if left unchecked? I'm not trying to be a wise guy. I honestly want to know. I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Thank you for any help.
i'm all for replacing invasive species with native species, which is a lot more work than just getting rid of invasives. better to work on a small section of land at a time, to get native species reestablished, than to take out invasives on the entire property, without a plan to bring in native plants only to have invasives just grow back.
Would you recommend planting honeysuckle if you don't have it. We have areas of sparse timber where nothing really grows, even though good light hits the floor.
The public land cose to my house is completely covered in amur honeysuckle and Osage orange trees. You can't see anything from a treestand in the woods because its so tall and green until winter. The fields are pretty much the only clearing you can see. How would you go about hunting that?
What are your thoughts on cudzu?
In the south it is extremely invasive but in the north it hates cold and dies off. In West Virginia we can have it live for a few years till a real cold snap kills it. I want to plant it in my overgrown autumn olive feild and let it take over instead of the AO. With 30% protein it will put on horn like nothing else. But without boundaries it will overtake every thing else on the farm.
I am here to learn from the best!! Thanks Jeff
Jeff. I have a 50 acre parcel here in PA. and have killed some nice deer. In fact I got a 150 class buck this past season in archery thanks to your channel and some elbow grease. But. This past season i also struggled with nocturnal deer. So I’m working on that this season. My question is; should I plant the red osier and expand the honeysuckle that I do have? The deer here crush the honeysuckles.
My brother has honeysuckle on his property located in Northeastern Ohio. Its good to see ODNR right on their page share the same opinions as you on these. I brushogged down some honeysuckle to make a trail to the back 12 acres of the property. Next time i will try and avoid doing that.
What is your thoughts on wild roses? Worthwhile to leave or take them out?
If my woods already has a lot of honeysuckle should I not worry about adding autumn olive and just create lanes from bedding to plots?
Jeff, I live in Minnesota and it a couple places that I hunt (private land) we have allot of buckthorn. What's your thoughts on buckthorn? Leave it or remove it. The MN DNR is encouraging the removal of buckthorn. Just curious about your views on this. Thanks Jeff
Hey Jeff I’ve always had trouble identifying plant species and trees do you recommend any books or videos that would help with that?
Thank you for the info on honeysuckle I'm curious about osage orange trees are they good for hardwood regeneration my property is outlined with these with nothing the deer can reach if I hinge cut these will the deer browse on them ? Thanks again for all the information you provide it is working well on my micro parcel
here in north central west virginia the autumn olive is all the deer and rabbits have in my area because back in the 50s the whole area basically was surface mined/strip mined so they didnt plant anything back and autumn olive is the only thing deer have for cover when you look around the rim of a hollow down into it they stripped the surface up to about a flat below the ridgeline,flattened it creating shear highball all the way around the hollow and below the fields it created now is only autumn olive.if it werent there now there wouldnt be any deer here in this area at all.
I see this in many more areas than you may imagine Steve. I also see landowners in this kind of location where landowners will purchase the land, and then feel they have to get rid of it...and whatever they plant in it's place does not grow...or it is the wrong habitat to attract wildlife, like hardwoods.
Olive and bush honeysuckle are a mainstay in our permanent game food and cover program. We have repeatedly planted native shrubs and none of those come close in their value to wildlife. The dislike of olive and honeysuckle is irrational and counter productive to good wildlife management!
It is a good plant to put into strip mines as it will grow anywhere and though it is not a legume, it fixes nitrogen in the soil. Autumn olive, black locust and switchgrass after a good dose of class A sludge...thats the ticket for strip mines.
Great rant. Here in Pa. they have declared war on AO. I can remember as a kid, when we bought our hunting license, they gave us a pack of AO seeds to plant, lol. I can't tell you the amount of places I hunt where there is a mixture of AO and honeysuckle bushes.....LOADED with wildlife!!!
Great observations! Literally in many areas of they didn't have AO or Honeysuckle...they would not have consistent and sustainable wildlife populations. And then when I have been on lands where it has been removed, I have yet to see where the area held more wildlife after removal unless turned into a food plot. Even then I have seen locations they removed the screening around the food plot by getting rid of the AO so that the plot turned nocturnal because it was then exposed to hunter access.
Thankfully tho, the tide is turning with state and fed wildlife officials...taking more the stance of how to use it. I do believe that they do not like destroying wildlife populations either so they are beginning to make better decisions...
I have watched and enjoyed hours of your video's and find them very informative . I am 68 years old live on a small farm in southern Illinois and have hunted all my life . I don't remember seeing any autum olives or honey suckels when I was a kid . If they were around there wasn't enough of them to get my attention then . But now they are so thick you can't even walk through some of the woods they are so thick . They make it about impossible to squirrel hunt . If you shoot a deer with a bow or gun and they don't leave a good blood trail they are just about impossible to find . My daughter and son in law live in Hayward Wisconsin and used to live in Munising Michigan and I have seen them up there but never have seen them as thick as they are down here in southern Illinois . I have one woods that I can't even hunt they are so thick and another small woods that I have to stay after just to keep them thinned out just so I can walk through without having to get down and crawl .These woods have big trees and shade the forest floor but they are still too thick to hunt . My son in law has some ground also and he has a problem with them also . If you don't think they will take over an area here in the south come on down and I can show you all kinds of woods and CRP ground that is overtaken with them . Sorry I don't mean to post anything negative but maybe you just haven't seen how bad they can get around here . I do agree with everything else that I have seen that you made shows about and really do enjoy them .
I came to this video after having the state DNR explain what an uphill battle of relentless work I have on what was a supposed to be a fun hunting property. They tried to crush me leaving an opinion of these plants are so bad we considered selling before even starting habitat work.
Jeff, thank you so much for this video, and your others, which reminds those of us who don’t own huge checkbooks and timberland dreams that wildlife are as much of conservation as plants…. And that if you ask most folks what matters most it won’t be the answer we are excited for.
While we will do our best to remove some of these invasives and always keep them at bay, I’d suspect my grip and grin deer pics will be more appreciated.
Unfortunately most of the government works have zero practical, hands on experience doing what they preach in balance with both herd and habitat and hunting and landowner goals. Just schooled teaching from a book. They aren't the tools, but largely just tools of agency agendas. Hell, the agencies don't even have the experience to do what they do in balance with all they teach and preach.
Bottom line...so much more positive opportunity than they even know...or will ever be able to teach you. I would press onward and enjoy the fun of managing your own slice of heaven 😊
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751I understand the “invasive” allegations against AO. In my area, it’s not a problem. BH can be. Anyway, I have a few areas of former ag field and fescue that don’t seem to want to grow much. I’d like to try growing autumn olive from seed. Any tips??
Habitat isn't the only thing needed for deer and birds. Native fruits are much more nutritious. Caterpillars don't feed on ao or bh. These plants are the only thing standing because nobody eats them, not sure why anyone would want to cultivate them.
I do both with honeysuckle cut it in some areas and leave it in others. My neighbor has a area next to our property is so thick with mature honeysuckle nothing bigger than a rabbit is going through it.
Great information! Thanks, Jeff! 👍
You are very welcome Chris! Thank YOU!
Outstanding info as always! I'm starting from scratch converting a small field to cover. Will plant switchgrass with inner pockets of early successional growth, trees, shrubs. Rather than just let the pockets grow on their own and take what I get, do you have any recommendations for seed mixes, bush types, etc.
I'm doing the same and need the same info. I can't wait for it to quit raining so we can get in there and get started! 2020 is going to be a completely different season.. hopefully a successful one!
@@austingibson4939 Hey Austin, Jeff says in his most recent video that he's planning a video for converting field to cover with browse pockets. That is exactly what I (we) needed. I'm pretty excited as well. I also have some county guys coming over to give me suggestions.Hopefully between the 2 I'll get it figured out. Good luck with yours.
@@ScottStJohn-uo4uk I can't wait to see the vid! I think I've learned more watching his videos than I have from any source in all of my 33 years...and I've been in or around a deer stand since I could walk. I just got some box elder seeds along with multiple varieties of dog wood and about 6 different fruit trees. Once we get our areas designed the way we want with switch grass then we are going to incorporate browse trees/shrubs and our hinge cuts. We have a lot of CRP around us so we are going to have to make our bedding areas incredible to get them out of the CRP and onto our place. I don't think I've been this excited about prepping for hunting and looking forward to next season ever! Good luck!
Jeff you are obviously one of the best if not the best in whitetail habitat creating industry. What you do is fascinating to myself and many other who watch your videos. I’ve been watching for a while now and I can’t keep from thinking who taught you all of this? Or did you teach yourself over the years?
Thank you very much Micah...that really means a lot to me!
Nearly all self taught...and almost everything I talk about I originated. I do not read or watch anything from anyone else. I learned doing all of by myself for 20 years before stating s business...all related to advanced hunting techniques on public and private land. It has been a HUGE luxury learning by other folks success and failures on nearly 1000 client parcels. I study the success and failure on every parcel...hunting, habitat, herd management...several hours with each client is about studying their experiences as much as designing their new plan. I constantly take notes on client lands for new video and article ideas.
Honestly if I went to school for this Unlikely would never have been able to build the business and would have largely how to do what I do... incorrectly. Most schooling woefully ill prepares folks for the real world.
Again tho...just being open and seeing this stuff over and over again. If I would have only worked on a few parcels in specific areas instead of a large number over year, I would have learned very little too. It has been a fascinating journey and I love continuing to learn in every parcel. I used to keep some of my experiences and discoveries to myself for fear of offending government or private entities...now I have a large enough platform and I just don't care what people think. I just want to help landowners and hunters out as best as possible...I really hope that the information does!
Whitetail Habitat Solutions it’s truly amazing you’ve started all this by yourself. I hope one day myself can design habitats for our wildlife that needs it worse than ever at the rate houses are being put up and trees are going down. Thank you for everything you do.
That's awesome to hear Micah! Such a need too, when there is such a loss of habitat...hope you can fight the food fight as much as possible ☺️
And... honeysuckle and buckthorn hold their leaves until a very hard freeze. I always try to weave them into stand sites, up ladder stands, etc.
Great point...very good access cover for stand locations!
Man, I needed to hear this. Thank you.
Love the rants lol...im going to do the buckwheat followed by clover in my food plot this year but dont have a packet max can I cut the buckwheat with a weed eater or will that not work? Keep up the good work your vids have helped me a great deal....
Hi Chris! I would consider something more powerful than clover...at the very least a cover crop with clover (peas and beans with clover, brassica with clover). But definitely...you can crush pretty effectively with truck tires, tractor tires, ATV tires, lawn roller. I like a quality cultipacker the best, but anything that you can crush it over with...or roll it over with, etc. I hope that makes sense? A very good and common question!
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 thanks brother I didnt think about that I'm in NC and clover is still green to this day but I actually just looked at some seed that had more than clover but NO grass lol ...hard to find stuff that dont have a grass filler ...thanks for your help this will be fist foodplot I have putt in so need all the help I can get ..and im doing it all with chainsaw and rakes so dont want to mess it up after all that work..
@@chrismacomber9727 hey bud, just a little info for ya, ERNST seed outta Pennsylvania sells white Dutch and ladino clover along with chicory. I've used it a few times and I've used whitetail institute seed a lot . ERNST seed seems to do a lot better nowadays. It didn't used to be that way but something has changed for sure. Either way, ya might give em a call instead of using seed mixes. They are a fraction of the money for better seed in my opinion.
@@shawnb789 cool thanks for the advice brother I will look into it..
@@chrismacomber9727 yes sir, hopefully you have good luck. I'm also trying the buckwheat no till method this year with beans peas and rye. Ordering my buckwheat seed this week. Good luck dude!
I have a monoculture of bush honeysuckle and privet. Nothing can move through the stuff. Im trying to get browse in my wood strips and have been successful when removing it. Nothing else can grow when they leaf out a month before anything else. I thin it out in my regenerating fields.
Awesome for creating pockets within it and for creating deer trails through it to connect bedding areas and food sources.
I'm in Louisiana and have zero autumn olive. Would I need to bring them in anyway or what could I plant in place of the olive to serve the same purpose? Other than honeysuckle.
Jeff, what about multifloral rose?
I'm not Jeff, but I see deer eating the buds off of it all the time.
I have Autumn Olive taking over my property. It does grow in the shad and is chocking out natural permissions and apple trees. I do like the cover in areas, However some parts are so thick the deer don't even use sections of the property. How to you recommend getting the fast growing autumn olive under control ????? I have looked into forestry mulcher companies but they are very expensive.
Chris, it must not be Autumn olive because it does not grow in shade...it will in partial shade but then it does a slow death and it does not establish in shade! At all. Check again on what it is...likely Honeysuckle, prickly ash or buckthorn. But again it absolutely does not grow in the shade...in fact, shade kills it eventually. That's why lower branches within a dense stand die with the exception of branch tips that can reach the sun.
Whatever it is, very easy to chainsaw openings withing by clearing lower branches. Or rent a DR brush trimmer for about $70 per day and clear deer trails and openings within.
No different than needing to clear openings in spruce, red cedar, Switchgrass, hardwoods, pine...same concept and any of 1 thing is a bad thing. The pockets concept is needed anywhere. Feel fortunate you have a base cover type to work with...many are dealing with extensive hardwood forestry practices in order to diversify. You just have some type of bush to create trails and openings within...very easy to do ☺️ Which is a good thing...
Wont killing invasives and allowing sunlight to the floor allow the native seedbank to replenish the area with new forbs, grasses, and woody browse?
No, not always...hardly ever. Typically grasses and weed growth. So you go from very good cover from AO or Honeysuckle, to nothing. Often they come back and many times anything you plant in it's place is either eaten, is a much lower value than was there in the first place, or does not grow. The exception is if is turned into a food plot...maybe a pocket of switch.
I have seen it many times over in many states over a couple of decades. Remove it and vacant fields take place...far more often than not.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Thanks for your response.
I have both on my NJ 22 area parcel and promote the growth and application of both so as to enhance my property. Another great video. Thanks
Great to hear Cris! A true treasure for wildlife 👍 Great job!
Have you ever done any work in the piney wood of the south? Such as in west central Louisiana?
We’ve been told to remove our invasive species, we have a LOT of honeysuckle especially. What we’ve noticed with our 16 acre wooded property is that due to the hilly terrain, solid cover of honeysuckle on one side, covering at least half of the acreage and being surrounded by farm fields (and with no water source on our property), the deer use our land primarily as a temporary rest stop between food sources. We have a plan to replace those invasive species and use agroforestry practices like alley cropping and silvopasture to give the deer a reason to hang around longer and graze. We have a lot of very young trees that are definitely stunted by the heavy undergrowth, but I was concerned about removing all of the cover. You have certainly made me rethink what kind of impact that would have. As new forest land owners, I don’t want to make a mistake that might cost us years of good hunting.
It would be extremely wise to leave some of the areas for cover. Of course no land is good with ALL cover no matter how great. Diversity is key, and high quality food plots in private. No food plots...no reliable daily deer use, no matter how great the cover.
Unfortunately too many programs share the cave man mentality of species removal...when they actually may be your best option for your wildlife goals. In fact in many cases I have seen them be the only option.
Definately important to rethink any government entity plan and I am trying to offer as much real world information to help landowners make informed decision!
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Well I thank you for bringing this topic to my attention! One of the first things we did after moving here last summer was to have a state forester come out and walk the property with us, and of course his first recommendation was the removal of ALL of the invasive species! LOL
Since that time, we have shifted our priorities as we have developed a better understanding of our vision for what we want out of our property in terms of wildlife, recreation, and a sustainable lifestyle through working with the land to maximize it's potential as a whole.
One goal is certainly to maintain as much of the integrity of the wildlife already established, while enhancing the property through the addition of a few small features such as small watering holes (there are no natural water sources for a several mile radius of our land), interior food plots, and a couple of small orchards to give them a reason to linger a bit, rather than just using the thick cover as a freeway between the farmers fields on opposite sides of the property which are clearly more attractive food sources. Not only that, but the amount of dense thicket combined with sloping terrain have resulted in severely limited shooting lanes; which while nice for brushing in my ground blind for good camouflage, creates a problem when it comes to actually drawing deer in close enough to get a clear shot since they practically need to walk up on the blind or be within the 20 yard radius that a reasonable shot could be taken. As I am not comfortable using a tree stand myself, and this being my first year getting to really spend some quality, un-pressured time hunting, the experience while unproductive in terms of bagging deer, gave me some good insight into what modifications need to be made in all-around strategy and habitat infrastructure.
Our greatest challenge though lies in trying to balance out our goals for enhancing and maximizing our property's wildlife/hunting potential while integrating our homestead plans without over-developing the property and decimating wildlife populations. I have turned to agroforestry practices for resources as a means to develop our own sustainable permaculture system which would allow for the production of small stock animals near our home, (situated to the south of the bulk of the forest), the creation of gardens, food plots, small pasture zones, and orchards in an attempt to work with nature and the limitations it poses without decimating and whole of the wild, beautiful woods I have come to love. It will be a challenge that I expect will take several years to accomplish, but the end result I hope will be well worth the effort! Thanks again for your advice!
@@TorahFirma that all sounds beautiful...really appreciate you sharing it all...in particular for others that are reading this. You experiences matter! For far to long folks have simply worked on what they were told to work on by a government agency, which rarely is the best way.
Enjoy the process...sounds like you are in the right track ☺️
Being a forester myself, but also a lover of wildlife I can truthfully say that I see and understand the benefit of autumn olive and honeysuckle for wildlife habitat. I do also believe though that you can toe a fine line and have sort of a dual use, timber production and wildlife mecca, property. Especially if you had a larger tract of land, you could focus on managing timber on a smaller scale while also creating early successional habitat for wildlife. The timber markets in the Appalachian region where I live, hunt, and work are very cyclic in my opinion. One year red oak is booming, next year you are almost giving it away to sell it. There has been a demand for soft maple and yellow poplar as of late. I think maybe you could use a form of hinge cutting in stands of the soft maple to select for better form soft maple trees while in the lean time creating bedding and browse out of the poor form trees. While you may not have the best hunting property, or the most valuable timber tract, I believe you an still have a good hunting property and get some form of monetary return here and there. I guess you are trying to make yours and your clients properties great hunting parcels though and not just good haha.
What other if any tree/shrub type plantings is good for wildlife? I heard you mention Red Osier Dogwood. Can you give any other suggestions. Thanks Kurt Ruiter Big Rapids, Mi
Great article Jeff!!! I just had a forester come out to my property around Christmas. I shared my plan you did for me and he was very excited to see it and incorporate into our forestry plan!!! Was a great guy I learned a lot from him, it was great not to have him preach about money trees.. You taking Dylan to ND that seams to be his go to state😎!!!
He should have his forestry license revoked, that crap is the worst thing ever
Todd Reynolds I don’t have those invasive species, and Jeff didn’t recommend planting any either, my property is to remote to log, so we do a lot off hinge cutting, and removing the canopy.
Give it 5-10 years though it will take over your open spaces and choke your property. I embrace it, but also stay on top of my shooting lanes before it gets out of control. Good info
A really awesome video! thank you for sharing jeff
Thanks so much Junior! Really hope it helps ☺️
I have about 10 acres of AO it came in after a hay field wasn’t used. You are right about most of your points about AO. You can add that it’s a great source of pollen tons of honey bees and humming birds, deer do browse it here in July and Jan. It adds nitrogen so plant an apple next to one. Rabbits chew it up pretty good in winter. When it is in a location I don’t want it, it’s easy to take out. The thorns are bad watch out for that. You can make jelly from the berries. Oh, raccoons and bears love the berries. A bear will stand in the bush and munch them.
All great points...most have no clue about the benefits. One huge one what I think bears repeating over and over again...easy to get rid of if wanted. I despise the scare tactics used by educated but inexperienced and unpractical wildlife managers...
I eat the berries, also. One bush will be tasty and the next sour so you have to taste to see. Called a "superfood".
2 reasons, I like ur channel and Iike Rants
Thank you very much!
I have been told that the Olive is also beneficial to the surrounding soil, it will help improve the soil to support more beneficial Forbs due to their roots releasing exudates
Autumn olive is allelopathic - it releases chemicals into the soil that inhibit the growth of other plants.
yes absolutely correct autumn olive prevent erosion, they are very important for grassland hills
to keep the soil in place.
I'm in northeastern Maryland. What are your thoughts on Paw Paw for cover and food?
Hey Jeff, I have a lot of locust trees (either black or honey locust) on about 1/4 of my property. have you found that those are a good habitat tree for deer or not so much?
I have the same question. I guess locust trees would need to be constantly cut to encourage stump sprouts. Is my guess correct?
Locust beans provide a late winter food source for deer when they're having a hard time finding anything else. They can be a good attractant for late season hunting. Locust is also high quality wood that is slow to rot. It's good for ground contact like fence posts, makes good strong attractive lumber and has about the best heat value of any firewood.
Jeff I have the same question as another user here, my property has buck thorn and the deer are eating them like crazy and the Wisconsin DNR just posted a story on getting rid of it but I dont see the point at this point after seeing how much there eating on them. So what's your take on this invasive species
Cody it is such a great question and like I've said...nearly impossible to get rid of. You honestly have to approach it like your job. I've seen clients spend Incredible resources of time and money for more than a decade with very little success.
I don't want to tell you exactly what to do...but from your experience and how they are using it, I'm not sure that I would attempt to get rid of it. It has to be a labor of love if you do and you will be in for a long fight. Easier said and recommended...than actual reality.
Kill them. Your neighbors don’t want that garbage on their property. That crap is taking over here.
I know this is an old video but you are absolutely, positively, 100% spot on with this video. No one else I know would have the guts to say the truth about this "issue" like you did. I see more deer on the parcels that I hunt that have honeysuckle and autumn olive, than any other properties I hunt, hands down. I have honeysuckle on my place and autumn olive, and deer are here all the time. My neighbor got signed up for a DNR program. Guess what their expert told him to do right away??? Yep. "Get rid of all that deer habitat, the autumn olive and honeysuckle." They never told him to replace it with any other type of cover. Just, autumn olive bad. Honeysuckle, bad .....ugh...oooga booga...ugh
Unfortunately the government folks telling landowners to get rid of it don't even understand the big picture, themselves. Just a cave man, schooled approach.
Awesome rant! Autumn olive ought not be considered an invasive, it is an important niche player that can restore fertility in the soil. It wouldn't be a wide spread species without humans destroying habitat as they do.
this guy is 100% correct - I've studied ecology and ecological restoration in depth, at the highest levels (spent several years basically developing a better paradigm for restoration as it's practiced in the midwest today) - and came to many of the same conclusions as an academic - describing the extent to which many of our institutional 'academics' have come up short on the applications of ecology as a pragmatic medicine which treats outcomes holistically and employs better philosophy with concepts like "first, do no harm". Non-native species does not mean it's a better or more practical ecological outcome or practice to bulldoze or spray a large naturalized area that's providing all kinds of ecological benefits, and which will ultimately continue to grow into something like a mixed native forest. I'm not saying anything stupid like "invasive species are great" or "we should plant them" or anything like that - but you can't imagine how frustrating it is to be an academic person in the classroom with people who are entirely out of touch with being pragmatic and having a real understanding of ecological succession from their own experiences and observations. Obviously there are a lot of non-native plants which can takeover and displace native spp., and we should be mindful of these, prevent their establishment and spread (and especially their introduction) to the greatest extent possible - but really, we should establish large, resilient natural areas so that small introductions of common invasive spp. pose no real threat to their health. Also, the idea that we're going to eradicate, or that we should try to eradicate plants as common as these - is purely for people who have zero real experience with large scale ecology and zero critical thinking skills. In general, I think the instances in which successful eradication are a realistic option are rare and obviously they only apply to species that are recently introduced on a small scale, not things that have been naturalized for a couple hundred years and are, whether you like it or not, 'indigenous' to the disturbed, modern landscapes they thrive in.
Honey suck is nice to have. What the world is autum olive? Is it a cold climate plant/tree/bush? Can it grow down south?
What's your take on cutting Autumn Olive, Honeysuckle and Buckthorn, not killing it, but making brush piles out of it about every 5 years instead? In my area these species grow so thick even deer can't walk through it, let alone humans. I've found cutting it, making brush piles increases the cover for small game. Then the cutting regenerates creating more cover over the years.
Buckthorn is pretty useless for anything.
I like hollowing out AO and Honeysuckle to make pockets and trails that the deer can use. Then just kill any Regen of either within the pockets and trails...easy tondo and maintain as they really do not establish and grow that quickly.
Buckthorn is an entirely different animal...not in the same class. Nearly impossible to get rid of...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Yeah, the buckthorn is really the worst. We have Glossy and Common on the property and I have been targeting that. I've seen increased deer movement in the areas where's I've thinned it out.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 A brush hog or a trail mower makes quick work of trail cutting, did it on property i now hunt...
@@myronlaidler8034 it sure does! I have a lot of clients who enjoy using a DR style brush mower. I think you can rent them for around $70 a day.
I used to be a regular on the Michigan Sportsman deer habitat forum. I remember all the fighting back and forth about AO. The undeniable truth is that it is a great wildlife Bush. Wish I had a few. I had a bare field when I bought my land. The popple are filling in and taking over. Havent found any AO, even with them in the area. They are only invasive in the perfect scenario.
Love tha rant video’s
Thank you Shawn...feels good to get some things off my chest ☺️
I love wildlife too. I have been removing honeysuckle and privet coz it is all oner our woods. And doing it for the wildlife. Now i dont feel so desperate to get rod of it.
Ive hunted honeysuckle thickets for over 20 years. Sure it can be a pain to drag deer out of them, but the deer are there. Especially when the pressure is on (public ground), now that I am doing some property management it's not about eliminating it. Utilize it to your advantage, getting in on the downwind edges of the thickets and opening up certain areas for accessibility etc... It will never be gone so learn to work with it.
Autumn olive is really a vital source here in Michigan for grouse and our department doesn’t do much for them and these olives keep them alive in the winter
Another thing to old hardwoods aren’t ideal and good for wildlife as everyone thinks, they don’t produce good cover or food
So critical! If folks like wildlife, they always need to remember that the lower the higher the timber value, the lower the wildlife value...
I'm in the Piedmont of NC and honeysuckle here is a ground cover vine that makes sweet smelling and tasty necto.
I saw buck browsed on the autumn olives shrubs for 1/2 an hour, especially those berries that dropped on the rounds. Its invasive species yes. Somehow sawtooth oaks are also invasive species! I don’t like to used the words invasive, they’re naturalized in to our habitats
Not trying to argue by any means but wouldn't an American plumb be more beneficial as a 'crawling' cover and food source than autumn olives?
I cut a section of 15 ft buckthorn in my swamp in north east Michigan and the 4 foot regrowth has all the tips chewed off. Gonna cut some more this year
I wish you could share a picture...buckthorn doesn't grow in swamps much...also more starvation food. You sure it was buckthorn?
Glossy buckthorn. Next time your through Peshtigo headed to the UP take a peak off the highway over by the bay. Basically all there is in the understory in glossy buckthorn. Pretty big problem in that part of the state. Alot of black Ash over buckthorn, poor quality timber, pretty poor habitat for most things, Ash is all gonna die in the next 10 years and between deer browse, water levels and timber growth rates it's not worth clearing and replanting. Sticky situation for alot of MFL landowners.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 sorry I just saw your response. I'm going on the information my daughter's science teacher gave me. I thought it was tag alder myself. I assumed any regeneration browse was ok. Guess I'll keep cutting in hopes the ash takes over. Thanks for your response love your videos
Thanks Jeff! What’s your thoughts on Buckthorn and Japanese Barberry?
You are welcome Mark! Both pretty useless with the exception of providing side cover. The buckthorn is nasty...nearly impossible to get rid of. I would definitely think twice before buying land with it on it...
Whitetail Habitat Solutions too late for that!😳 I don’t have a lot and have removed the berry producing trees and then apply chemicals during the winter but it’s work! I have seen Japanese barberry so thick on some lands that travel of any kind is near impossible! Plus it’s a tick magnet!
Mark, I watched a doe fawn group come out to a food plot and go straight to a buckthorn and start eating the lower leaves. Barberry berries are also eaten by deer and grouse. However, it is my understanding that the nutritional value is not great. As with all of the foreign species, they can be good in moderation but can also become so invasive, they take over the land. In the Poconos, I was called to mark timber on a tract and I turned it down because the barberry was so thick I could not walk through it. The thorns are horrible. My father's land had a thicker of barberry along the creek bottom and it was always a pain but on the other hand there were lots of snakes, turtles, grouse, and deer used it for security sometimes. I bulldozed some openings and planted clover and killed deer there during bow season. Bottom line is that when these plants get started on a tract of land, they need to be managed...such as keeping them controlled in patches for emergency food and cover but not let them take over the understory. The State often lets it get completely out of hand then puts it out for bid to come and spray it all. Your tax dollars at work! Private landowners let it get out of control because they don't manage their properties. I suspect if you are on this channel, you are not one of those guys.
Your comments on Autumn Olive remind me a lot about how people in Wisconsin here look at Buckthorn now. They call it invasive, which is legitimate, it spreads and fills very fast, but like you said, it is here to stay and it is easier to try to use and manipulate it than try to keep up with removing it constantly. I think deer here use it a lot, and many acknowledge it is heavily used by them as cover and food. I am totally with you on how these species should not be approached with this caveman mentality. They are here, they can be used positively and smartly. Thanks for the video and so many others, enjoy them a lot!
Autumn olive (Elaeagnus umbellata) is an ornamental shrub first introduced to North America in the mid-1800s. This shrub's silvery foliage, showy flowers, and colorful berries made it popular in landscaping, though it was also planted extensively for a period of time in natural areas to provide erosion control, wind breaks, and wildlife food.
I eat the berries- a "superfood". One bush will be tasty, one will be rough.
Just to add to this...I had a client recently who says deer munch on the green leaves of honeysuckle all the time since they green up early and stay green late. There are many many subspecies and I think some are more palatable than others. Sometimes honeysuckle and autumn olive get very invasive and take over the world and get so thick deer cant use it. In the woods it doesn't get too bad usually and it becomes a bedding cover area. I've been paid to kill it on State land, which is funny because the game commission planted this stuff all over. Today, this is the least of the problems with invasive plants...no we have Japaniese stiltgrass spreading everywhere and keeping anything from growing on the forest floor. And its a good point that its here to stay so you may as well use it for food and cover.
Extremely easy to manage AO...diversity pockets within, deer travel corridors, etc. Like Switchgrass on steroids. I have zero respect for state sponsored removal programs. Extremely misguided and does more harm than good to wildlife programs. I wouldn't accept any amount of money to remove it. Instead, I would inform the landowner how to easily manage it. Just like you have seen...what takes over is often worse or even harder to control, and provides zero wildlife value...like hardwood plantings. The state just wants to create future boards per foot and rarely cares about, has the experience to manage, or understands how to build wildlife populations.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 a lot of the state folks pretty much just go by what they learned in college and don't have any practical experience in the field
@@ChilcoteForestryServices amen to that! So true...but many are full of conviction 😕
The states vision to manage for timber is their job. There’s nothing wrong with that. They can’t manage for bf if they have to provide for every species of wildlife. As a landowner we must decide whether we want wildlife or timber and then get educated to know how to manage for it. Jeff is all about wildlife as am I . His management style is a good example to start with. Thanks Jeff for all that you do.
I just had a forester last month want me to clear all of the autumn olive and bush honey suckle from my property. State would pay like 200 bucks an acre I said no thanks. It works great as late season side cover. Deer follow it like any other edge and can really dictate their movements
While it provides good cover, it crowds out native species that are more beneficial to wildlife and it prevents hardwood regeneration because it is so dense no light reaches the ground. Since it is already here, it needs to be managed so it doesn’t take over and become a monoculture. As far as displacing current wildlife, doesn’t any major disturbance like clear cutting or clearing and clearing for a food plot do that? To minimize impact until more beneficial species regrow, eradication or removal should be done in phases. Taking a balanced view is key.
It actually doesn't displace hardwood species...that's just forestry and "boards per foot", timber production misinformation 😉
It will never be eradicated and often thrives where nothing else will for many different reasons, giving hope to landowners that actually desire strong wildlife populations and true diversity (like we accomplish) as a priority over boards per foot....which is more of a hardwood monoculture.
I’m interested in things that work! If you told me I needed 100 acres of cactus I’d do it Jeff.
Cold Stream Farms. I already live in Michigan so shipping shouldn't be too bad. Thanks Jeff
What about multiflora rose. It is awful. Dont it hurt wildlife feet?
Box alder is great for soil erosion but not that great here for cover I want to take some out and plant some of that dog wood like u said in last episode
Excellent...
Thank you Tilley!
I don’t argue that those invasive species may be beneficial to wildlife , but I think it’s very short sighted to promote them. Time will tell, but I predict in 50 years we will see significant reduction in good timber trees do too the honeysuckle choking them out since they are the first to green up in the spring and the last to lose their leaves in the fall. In the meantime I will continue to destroy any invasive I come across!😉
If you're out trimming Autumn olives be careful there is a small percentage of them that have thorns like sewing needles. A lot of folks don't know that they're on there but when you get bit you'll know it then and have respect for what you grab.
Great points raised. I'm a non-hunter and have run across similar ideas on the "greenie" side of things. Tao Orion wrote a great book "Beyond the War on Invasive Species" which is well worth a read. Dutch ecologist Frans Vera is also a must check out. His presentation at the Knepp estate is a real eye opener because it applies to America as much as it does to Europe.
I'm in South Western Virginia right outside of Radford University!! When I first moved down here from Northern Virginia about 5 year's ago it was just a piece of my 6 acre overgrown horse farm. It's full of nothing but Blackberrys and autumn olives. I see some huge impressive buck's and also some bear and turkey. My neighbor keeps complaining about how crappy my land looks when he shoots deer out of his windows. I know what it's worth to me and I'm okay with that . I'm thinking about making my own jams out of the autumn olives . I have never tried any but, every one says it's very tasty. Read thru most of the comments and nobody mentioned anything about it. If any of you fine folks could give me some feedback it would much appreciated!!
Unfortunately we are at the stage where removal is not a cost effective option with alot of invasives. If I was gunna have invasives I'd pick those two. You used to be able to get cost share to plant both. I've been on several properties in the last year with Autumn olive that was planted as a wildlife enhancement with seedlings provided by the county or wdnr. One of those "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" moments.
Alot of what this comes down to is excessive browse pressure. Olive by itself is not that competitive, same thing with ironwood and beech, but they are all crappy browse. Scatter a bunch of ag fields and food plots across the landscape, remove all the predators and "manage" deer by watching does three days a year while trying to shoot one of the 3 mature bucks in the area and you get a pretty predictable outcome in the remaining forested areas. In the areas where we have lots of invasives and heavy browse pressure we are solidly into novel ecosystems and our management has to reflect that.
I'm with you on Forestry being money-centric; it discourages NATIVES that are not valuable. However, here in Indiana Autumn Olive is a plague, crowding out native species. As far as Honeysuckle goes, if you are talking Asian Bush honeysuckle, it is a horrid menace from hell, and where it thrives, NOTHING will grow, as it kills other plants. Big portions of my recreational land are nothing but bush honeysuckle. Don't get me wrong, I love deer--but there is more to the woods than deer. Just keep in mind that there are endangered plants that need room as well.
Couple more tips...you can make jelly out of the berries and if you want to get rid of some of it, pen a bunch of pigs in it - they will beat it up to get the berries. Then you can get access to the area to work on it and plant something else
What is your opinion on WI DMAP program?
If you’ve been in it for several years now, what’s your opinion? I’m a level 1 for 5 years and honestly haven’t gained anything from it. Seems important to the DNR though.
Lookin for your next video
I'm on 50 acres in Southeast Ohio hill country. I hunt it hard, getting my limit every year, to feed my family. The deer are still very plentiful (nice bucks, too). Besides God gracing me with good hunting skills, I'm convinced that the reason the deer are still so plentiful on my land is because of the 12 acre super-thick hillside of these two species in the middle of the property. There is also a small pond in the middle of that thicket! If the deer are ever out in my surrounding fields or woods, they are either coming out of or going into that thick sanctuary of bedding, browse and water. Other than keeping my trails up on the land, I leave it the way I found it... no food plots or any of that good stuff... but with the safest bedding in the "neighborhood", thanks to these two species, I have no need to invest all that time and money to harvest lots of nice, big deer.
Are you saying the trees i am trying to save are not beneficial to wildlife? I read that the berries of honeysuckle are not good for birds. The birds get very angry when i am down in woods. 😃. This is my entire purpose of working butt off removing invasives for years.....the wildlife.
Picked up 50’acres by Buffalo NY of property heavily littered with AO and black locust trees. First thought was to clear it all out for big ag fields to hunt(food, food, food was the thought) Well, I started creating allies & pockets for food plots adjacent to these stands of AO and Locust.....pure gold. (The easiest way to deal with it is yank w chain and tractor! NOT CHAINSAW) The doe and bucks bed in them. The deer eat them. I can honestly say it’s fn romper room come the rut. You can hear the deer grunting, chasing, thrashing trees in frustration when the doe won’t stand for him. They browse HEAVILY until all the green is gone later in the season (end November) in oct tough to see through....the plus is SECURITY cover.
Access can be tricky, I’ve had deer bedded within 20 yards, hopped em up as climbing stands(mostly pre sets) BUT they stop and often times if you throw a grunt will return! During firearms after pounding archery hard and nothing moves in heavy pressure I still hunt very slowly through it w my boys and clean up on some doe management. (Shot 3 doe in two days slipping around with my 9yr old! )I have to agree with Jeff on this one, there’s a place for all of it, after all, what does wildlife flourish on....DIVERSITY!
Deer,Fox,yotes,ground hawgs,grouse, song birds ....you name it, ITS IN THERE!!!
Amen Droko! Love the feedback and GREAT JOB!! Really nice experience...
Our woods are completely infested with honeysuckle. It’s a complete monoculture. Shade, sun, it doesn’t matter. It’s choked out all native species in mature timber stands, it out competes new growth in open areas. It’s awful. In most areas you cannot see 10 feet in front of you let alone hunt it. The only way is to cut paths, funnels, etc but even then it’s not perfect as it is a full time job maintaining these areas yearly as new sprouts come up.
There is a direct correlation of dwindling deer numbers in areas of infestation vs. areas of natural regrowth and cover. I’d give my left arm to rid our 180 acres of timber of honeysuckle.
But it is here to stay, aside from a heavy financial investment. How about a video describing how you go about manipulating this problem (my perspective) to an advantage?
Hey brother I’m late watching as usual