Rust Bluing.....Anvil 0109
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- There really isn't much difference between conservation and actual rust bluing. Here we stir the mud even more! NOT a tutorial...we show what you need to learn, not how to do . Cannot perform at this level? Do NOT attempt. Support us: / anvil
Actually and re-do of a much earlier episode, but we wanted to upgrade the rustblue.com imbedded video.
As usual, I am mystified why Mark's channel isn't running up at the 3+ million subscribers range or higher. Pure, unadulterated, useful information.
He's such a wealth of knowledge. Something about watching someone work on a craft they've mastered is just excellent. Just to kick back and learn a thing or two with the confidence that whatever he says has been time tested. Almost makes me feel like I can do those things, or at least have the confidence to try, ya know?
Nobody wants to learn, they just want to know.... In 15 seconds or less
@@CrashRacknShoot You Can do these things. That's Mark's intent. He is sharing his knowledge (Knowledge=Experience) via being a teacher. I say this because he has said that. Use his (and others) experience to save yourself time, money and experimentation. This is hard earned information that you can use and trust to get yourself get good results. There might be 20 ways to do a particular task. Some will obviously be wrong but of the ones that are right, experience is what let's you get good results with the least chance of screwing it up!
Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
He’s too smart for most viewers. You actually, I don’t know, need an attention span and an interest in his videos.
Spread the word guys, spread the word......................!
ALWAYS OUTSTANDING content Mark! Thank you again for having Bob on the show to get a little more info. Looking forward to more.
Never go easy on Brake Clean... You want to use enough to move the oil completely off of the part you're cleaning. if you give something a light spray you can end up with a line of oil a little further down where the break clean evaporated. (Not directed at Mark, just a hard learned lesson.)
True, very true. Function of the videos is to get this very conversation started......
Just so you know this channel has been the inspiration of my basement gun smithing. And now an 07 ffl….
OUTSTANDING.........just sayin
I used bobs chemicals for a sxs receiver works great. My steam box was my shower and that worked great. I did boil it in a pot on my stove first
I am always delighted by the before/after when rust bluing. I kinda went crazy with it, and damn near everything that will fit in my steam box gets blued. All of my lathe and mill accessories. Including, quick change tool post, rotary index, all of my 3 and 4 jaw chucks, collet chucks, fly cutters, boring heads...if it will rust, and I plan on owning it more than a week, it gets rust blued. A deep bluing and a coat of light machine oil, is unbeatable as a machine tool finish.
Badass....
It's hard to express how much joy I get from watching your videos! Interesting, educating, informing, and entertainment. Thank you so much for sharing your skill , knowledge and time!
Thanks. Thats why we do this
I rust blued a Star BM that had water leak into its original box sometime during storage or shipping to the states and had rusted horribly. It came out amazing. I actually thought I wasn't getting very far until I hit it with Rig grease and it blackened up several shades immediately and held that color. It's a good bit of work especially if you don't have a lot of room or are doing a rifle, but worth it.
On the carding wheel for a cheap use, just chuck it in a drill and clamp your drill to the table with the trigger held down. Boom, you have the same setup Mark does and all you have to buy is the wheel from Brownells. Their carding toothbrushes are good too, just takes way longer. I prefer the brush over steel wool, on mine I started with wool and dumped it for the brush. I just felt like it got into every crack way better and didn't shed like steel wool does.
Per your recommendation when you mentioned it long ago, I bought 2 copies of the book, and gave my son one. I have set up to do conservation and have had some nice results. Thank you.
In my field of brass/woodwind instrument repair, I always told people, beside the actual knowing about the horns and how they work.
One also has to be part machinist, part tool and die maker, electrical engineer and part chemist.
I would suggest gunsmithing is very similar.
Imagine a time when we see a lot less bubba’d stuff because Mark took the time to share this wonderful information. I sub a lot of youtubers but Mark is pretty much the only one I actually take the time to watch. Thanks for all you do!
Did you ever think you would have so many students Mark?
Thanks for continuing to educate us!
Mark, great to see you start with Angier's book!! I have used the Birmingham Brown Recipe (p 90) since the 80's, including the logwood chip process. My results have always been great, particularly with skelp pattern damascus. Getting that pattern to "pop" is a great feeling.
Thank you mark
Hey mark just recently last Friday had a seizure in school 18 leaving high school soon it’s like a gift from god to have an 40 min video to lay in bed and watch.
For better for worse Marc your series of videos has become THE point for me checking YT.
As a fellow GS thank you SO much.
the pleasure is all ours...to watch...to learn...and to be entertained...thank you...
OK now, I'm going to put away my Rust-Oleum spray can, one each, condition code "A", Black, and go for conservation and actual rust bluing. My 870 WingMaster is camo rust-oleum paint with a slight coating of Mallard and Squirrel blood. I painted it in the mid 80s. I bought it new, and it was so well shined that it scared off the Ducks.
Happenstance led me to this channel. Now subscribed.
Takes a lot of trepidation out of diving head long into a couple of WWI era military weapons.
This guy is unbelievably talented.
Do the Whaintenance??? Get them all out and enjoy them occasionally. Give them a good look over even under the wood. Then thank God for John Moses Browning and Mark Novak.
Just wanted to add that you can make a sweat box also by hanging the parts in your shower with a steam humidifier! I've done that a couple times and it works well! Also, if you don't shower with your rust blue gun parts while they are in there, are you even a *real* gunsmith? Lol.
I like all that quite a bit, sir.
🤣
I've used Bob's rust bluing chemicals and they do a superb job. I especially like the German and Swiss formulations. Rubbing the oiled patina with coarse burlap really brings out the fineness of the metal. I haven't seen that brake cleaner in the State of California; it would be nice to try some of that sometime. When I was a kid here in California I used to be able to purchase gallons of Toulene and Xylene and Naphthalene. Now can get none of these three.
Use acetone.
Lacquer thinner
@@ericschulze5641 I notice in three paint stores here in the Roseville, California area, (Rockler and 2 Warehouse Paints stores one in Citrus Heights and the other in Auburn) carry lacquer thinner. Gallon cans are able to be purchased but it has to be sold to the customer when purchasing Mohawk Nitrocelluose based Lacquers.
@@cameronmccreary4758 maybe you can return the paint after the purchase
Your state has weird laws, are you sure you can't get it at Lowes or home depot or a hardware store ? You got any friends that are truck drivers, they can get you some when they go out of state
I spy with my own eyes, a spittoon and what appears to my non-expert eyes, a flintlock pistol! This was an epic episode. Totally awesome. Thanks gents!
Awesome video, great to see Bob again!
I've done a few barrels now with bobs rust blue and yalls old vid. A+ stuff
Damn, your good! Thanks again Mark. You are rhe best.
Absolutely brilliant
Mark thank you for sharing your time on this.
as long as iron is in its happy place 🤣 great explanation by someone who has obviously experience in teaching...
Parts for the turkey pot/toilet flange system in January... $65 total. It paid for itself the first time as I had great results. I'm thinking about rebluing my Win. 1907 next. It's an early nickel steel type and it's completely missing the hot dip blue I'm afraid all that nickel won't blue or it will come out purple. I may let a sleeping dog lie.
Ever see an old Ruger P series semiauto (aka a boat anchor that shoots 9mm) that has blued parts on it? They turn an interesting plum color. My Russian capture Kar98K has the same odd plum color on the bolt in some spots and on the rear sight. Strangest of all, my M1895 Nagant's cylinder has turned into a copper/bronze color! No idea what that's all about. It doesn't look like "patina" oil coated rust to me. It is almost like it was cerakoted burnt bronze. It was purchased in 2007 or 2008 from JG Sales straight outta a Russian crate so I know it is not painted or coated. That's just what time has done to these examples of bluing. If your gun turns out a plum purple color, it wouldn't be all that unnatural and out of place. Sometimes blued guns end up that way. Idk why. 🤯
Wealth of knowledge. 🙏
Love your content! keep it coming!
Time is something one cannot put on a shelf for later.
Thanks Mark, great stuff as usual..
This makes me want to buy an old rifle and have some fun in the garage.
Excellent video I've learned a lot from this thank you five stars sir
Hey Mark. Another great video… thanks! Just wondering what the details were on that wheel? I think you mentioned sharing the part number at one point?
Dang you do make the grass look greener on the other side.
Thanks Mark,
You've teached me quite a bit.
Cheers and God bless.
:))
Please tell us how you card the inside of the actions , i imagine you you use steel wooll and a pick or some sort of stick but i would like to know more , thanks as allways !! cheers!!
Fine stainless bristle brush or denim works as well
Regular tooth or a bore brush both work and are cheap
@@marknovak8255 Thanks!
I was about to ask why you had Andy Ritcher in the shop, but thank god it was Bob.
Can you explain how you are "looking at the original finish" after converting and carding? I did this to an 1816 musket and it came out beautifully blued, only to learn that they were done in the white and I had simply used the rust from 200 years to rust blue a gun that never was. Seems you are not looking at (or uncovering) the original finish but rather using years of rust to blue the piece. Thank you!
black powder guns were often kept in the white in order to show rust and fouling better, especially in military contexts
Where did you source the carding wheel from?
Others have same question.
Grobet File Co. You can order from Midway USA / Brownells. Cost about $30 Per wheel or $80 Per. Depends on light or heavy carding.
Science must find a way to preserve you guy's brains, pickled in a magic jar, or something, for the benefit of all humankind and the sake of the future generations
Always a pleasure
can you oil a finish with kerosene for the first oiling?
Yes, he's used that in other videos. Kerosene, mineral oil, or non-detergent motor oil.
Thanks for the video.
I’m curious, what about all of those tricky inside area that you can’t reach with a carding wheel? Fine steel wool ? Tips anybody ..
They make a small carding brush similar to a cleaning brush for harder areas. balled up steel wool works too, for wool make sure you ground your metal or you might end up contaminating the metal you are finishing by magnetizing it causing it to attract metal particles that will create unsightly specs in your finish.
That turned out beautifully Mark!
Mark have you here’d of the Modern gun smith volume 1 & 2? Lots or old formulas and methods from 1900,get one if you see one they are out of print. The old ways are simple but work.
I agree. A buck in books save a grand in stupid, also
Do you use distilled water, or regular tap water for the boil?
Doesn't seem to matter, we use tap water
Amazing job. I have purchased Bobs Rust Blue for my Enfields that need Maintenance. Ive madr my steam/humidity box and also my boiler Corregated PVC pipe cooker.
Have some WWI Enfield wire cutters that need attention.
Awesome video as usual. Are we gonna see more of that Vetterli?
yes
in the conversion process, how does one protect the bore? Is that even necessary, or is the bore polished with a few rounds and a cleaning brush?
From what I remember, you are keeping the chemicals out of the bore. The rust blue won't really get in the bore, and any rust that does start in the bore comes out with a couple passes of a brass brush.
@@ScottKenny1978 And that method of controlling the extent of conversion makes perfect sense for the chemically blued guns, but what about for the barreled actions that are blued with water, heat and air (i.e. in this video, the Vedderli)?
@@amschind that one I am going to defer to Mark.
I don't *think* it is any different, but I haven't done the work myself to confirm.
@@ScottKenny1978 To rephrase my question so that it's clear: you can deliberately avoid applying bluing agent to the bore, but I didn't see any method of excluding the steam from the bore when steam (rather than a brushed on chemical) is the oxidizing agent. I suspect that the residual oil in the bore may have something to do with it, but I'm obviously unsure.
@@amschind there shouldn't be any residual oil in the bore.
Any light (orange) rust will just scrub out with a brass bore brush, been there done that a few times.
It's the black rust I'm not sure about.
@Mark Novak : When you were chemical wetting the double receive using a el-cheapo brush, if you were doing more than a few pars but still not production, could you apply the chemical agent from a small pump sprayer to get the first coating down, or do you believe that would be ill advised?
It IS an acid, best not spread that around. Salt spray at the beach type destruction.....
@@marknovak8255 Most interesting indeed, didn't realize it was an acid but yeah that makes a whole lot of sense now as to why the brush was eaten up ratty looking. Thank you for getting back to me on that. Have a bonkers good day.
How do you get the bluing darker, almost a black color? Just continue to repeat cycles over and over until it gets to the color I’m looking for?
Hi there, i just a Daiwa auto500 which looks just like an A5.. my qiestion is much itcost me to restor this gun? Rust blue and wood work and a set of new screws?
I got some of this guys bluing chemicals, i had high hopes but for the life of me i cant get it to work. Over the past few months i have tried various methods and conditions. Im bummed i cant get it figured out because ive got a million projects to use it on.
I watch the guy from midway he seems more to the point.
Australian? I am a toilet ring owning British subject 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Still sorry about that......
@@marknovak8255 needn't be 😂
you 2 look adorable
outstanding my man, nicely done. DJ
A 20 year submariner warning you about a certain alcohol being too potent is a grave warning indeed...
Nuclear grade radioactive waste, yesssirie
Torpedo juice! Yumm
Excellent video! A charcoal bluing video would probably be found quite interesting!
PLEASE!!!! I'd love to see a video on charcoal bluing!
HOW IN THE HELL DOES MARK NOVAK ONLY 100K SUBSCRIBERS?!?!
If an Anvil video shows up I settle in to watch. If the topic is blueing, i watch immediately.
I used this process with a little .32cal pistol that my dad gave me, it is a Steyr-Piper 1908, it had a lot of surface rust and a was pitted pretty badly. So I used your previous video. I practiced with some steel washers until I got it down perfect, before performing this on the pistol.
Anyways, the pistol came out beautiful. Almost too new to my liking to be honest, but it’s not rusting anymore! The only problem I have now is that I don’t know how to put it back together because the pictures I took while taking it apart are gone with my old phone... So that sucks.
Sorry I don’t know anything about those pistols but is the 1909 anything like it and enough to use as starting point to put together? m.ua-cam.com/video/eycaGbje-ZQ/v-deo.html
Mark you are hugely raising the potential of many a back yard gunsmith your excellent vidios and I, for one, truly appreciated all your sharing.
I liked the bullet point summary at the end.
LOL
..You forgot to give the part number for the carding wheel.
He gives it in at 39:24 in this video here ua-cam.com/video/rShG_F85W1Y/v-deo.html
As a firefighter I have always been told to watch out for linseed oil. That it will spontaneously combust. Why? Mark you just taught me something. I never knew, nor had found that linseed oil can polymerize. All of the sudden the Hazmat Tech part of my brain lights up. We watch out for monomers and temperature controlled polymers due to their explosion hazard in containers. Linseed oil on a cotton cloth begins to polymerize and generate heat. Thence comes pyrolysis and combustion. Thank you again for teaching me something.
And I just learnt something from your comment. Thanks mate… just googled linseed oil combustion after your comment and I had no idea. (And I occasionally use it!) 👍🏻👍🏻
South Carolina should be bluing capital. Hot, Moist. Summer days.
Your videos are always must watch for me. I was able to move on from using 4-0 steel wool to carding brushes and finally to an actual carding wheel that I mounted on a $50 dollar well used craftsman drill press I found at an estate sale. I had to rewire the power cord and use it as a press to bore out the carding wheel so I could fab up an arbor for it. Currently working on a No. 5 Enfield that had a bright white flash hider. I have the hider looking plausible which is what I wanted.
Now THATs why we do the videos......outstanding!
Agree my friend! Hen you watch a master who also can explain so well for the shade tree repairman is a great combo. Why Brownells has not gotten with you to do a series and offer some courses in person is a crime!
*I spent the better part of my adult life working as a Machinist for one of the largest Railroads in the US. (I'm 61) I had a good friend that didn't wear gloves when he was at the parts cleaning tank. He died at 43 from liver cancer. Left a wife, kids and even a few grandchildren behind...Was it the toluene? Nobody can really say, but toluene has been linked to many forms of cancer (including liver & brain cancer) in mammals for a couple of decades now. There's also signage right on the lid of the parts cleaning tank...WEAR GLOVES AT ALL TIMES. Big companies don't put that type of product warnings out for shits & giggles. They do it so that when you get sick and die from not following the rules, they can point the finger of blame at you, and be saved from product liability suits...You may be a smart Mark, but you need to wise up.....Take it for what it's worth* 🔥
The secret to live a long life is not to die. Remembers me of the guys who take of the shield from their angle grinders or that lift with their back, its such an minor nuisance that avoids so much pain but people insist on
I always love it when Mark finishes up a project. He always has that look of accomplishment.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Mark. You know we appreciate everything you and Bruno do for the community. 🤙🏾
Watching agin for the 20th time. Thanks agin guys! I wish we all could spend every day in the shop with you sucking up knowledge the time you share is priceless and I can’t stress enough how lucky we are you are sharing the secrets other stubborn wizards have let die off due to fear of educating themselves out of a job.
Best birthday gift I could ask for
At 23:00 you wrap up the discussion of ripening the rust on the chemically applied pieces. Then you say you’ll hang it along side of the pieces you’re “conserving”. Conserving is the ones you’re doing without adding chemical?
Then you jump to saying they’ve been all “converted” and spent time in a “conversion tank” but you never showed that step or what you did that in.
Is it a boiling water bath? Is it steam? Is it something else? Is it fully immersed in water? For the 45 minutes?
You came back to the topic to create a one-stop summary, and skipped the details of that step.
I think if we watch all the blueing episodes, we’ll get the process. I was just hoping to have it all in one video.
Yeah this frustrated me also. I’ve seen enough of Mark’s videos to know what he did, but I was also hoping this would be an all-in-one, thoroughly descriptive video. I think that was Mark’s intent, but he missed those parts.
If you’re asking, here’s what he did (to the best of my knowledge): after heating the part up in the box with the heater, they remove the heater, and put the kettle in to steam up the box. In this step, you’re really just going for a warm, super humid environment to encourage rust. The parts are not directly in the steam, and only around 100 degrees. You let the parts sit in the warm, super humid box to “frog hair” rust. Then you move to conversion. Conversion is done in the steam tube (the PVC tube attached to the pot they showed earlier in the video). This is distinct from the previous step in that the parts are actually in hot steam, not just humid warmth. This converts the red rust to ferro-ferric oxide. Then you card, which is where the video picks back up.
I know it's seems somewhat vague to me I was expecting a overview kind of video but ended up mentally playing connecting the dots luckily I used to have lots of old scrap metal of different kinds to make things with an learned about different types of corrosion or rust, dad was a boilermaker and pipefitter so I had some input from his experiences
We are dealing with two different processes here; Part 1 is to converting “Rust” into “Magnetite” that is Bluing. And Part 2 is creating the rust coating that is needed to do Part 1.
Part 1 is simple, converting “Rust” into “Magnetite” by either boiling the rusted steel directly in water or use the hot steaming created from boiling water. After 45 minutes of boiling or Hot steaming you card the metal.
Part 2 can be simple or complex depending on the out come you want. There are a lot of different ways to create a thin coat of rust on steel however, the thinner the better. Too thick of a rust coating will be hard to convert, can damage the steel by pitting and can cause coloration issues. Mark's method is quick and efficient but if time and quantity is not a concern then you can dispense with the cardboard box and all the components that go with it....... My tried and true method is clean the metal as Mark describes, apply the “Rust Blue” solution to the metal, hang the metal wait about 4 to 8 hours depending on the humidity level. I live in South Carolina so the rusting process can be a quick as 1 hour. Once I feel the rust has achieve the proper level I then do Part 1. I will repeat this process anywhere from 3 to 5 times in order to get the bluing thickness I desire.
Not surprised that a non-specialist engineer wrote the book on bluing, since it is not as if only guns needs protecting against the wrong chemical reactivity. Can't always just paint or oil your steel to keep it safe.
Man your channel is fantastic. It’s like having a cool uncle that fixes guns and explains everything. Thanks
I have a project I'm gonna be bluing just to experiment. It's not a firearm, but it is mild steel so it should work. I've seen the older episodes, but the timing on this is perfect.
I watched this whole video just to learn how to boil an axe head so it will blue. Thanks!
i striped a tomahawk to bare metal then boiledit in white vineger turnd out a dark gray i like it.
A bottle of Everclear always explains itself. At least that has been my experience.
What a badass. Also the music at the end of every video is just *chefs kiss*
This video might be my fault. Was a good part of heated discussions about this on gunboards a month or two ago...
It's an argument I'm fanning on purpose. "Patina" is "collectable" because the average "collector" doesn't know how to deal with it properly. I am threatening that concept. This threatens those who haven't done any research, and found out patina is just oiled RUST. Just sayin......
Pa and Tina had a daughter together and they called her, Patina.
It's not a vernacular, it's a derby! Nyuk nyuk nyuk!
Disorder in the Court
I’d like to thank both of you for the 3 videos on this. I ordered Bob’s American Rust Blue and I’m now bluing for the first time in the comfort of my garage. Fine work and many thanks gentlemen.
I finished a P14 .303 rifle using rust blueing, i even matched the original blueing parts that didn't need doing. My formula was Sal ammoniac which was used on Lee Enfield rifles at the turn of the century. The best part of the process was watching the grey silvery finish after 6 boilings turn blue black with oil just like magic.
I used to practice on old steel lawn mower blades. I refuse to experiment on good guns. I have my technique down pat before I get busy on a nice old rifle.
Great video.
I loved the “bullet points” in the summary at the end.
Julia Child wasn’t a frog, she was Scottish, lol
True, but her entire cooking carrier was French, no?
@@marknovak8255 I'd like to think she may have made a haggis or two, off camera...
BTW, I didn't know you had the time to respond to or even read comments, so let me just say, every video of yours has been absolutely fantastic. Great knowledge, production quality and content. Thanks! Every video a great opportunity to settle in and and adsorb.
I have a colt 1903 that needs to be conserved and was thinking. "I could do it myself" then I remembered how much of a bear those pistols are to assemble....😒 guess I'm in need of a gunsmith....
love the bullet points, on the summary
Mark, I cannot thank you enough for allowing us to come into your shop and see how and why metal transformations take place! You are a master, no doubt. With my cigar in hand I totally immerse myself into your subjects. Common sense and deliberate approaches to smithing is fascinating and I hope someone out there is learning your methods. BRAVO ZULÚ!
Thanks.
Mark, Amazon has that book both in digital and in hard copy formats, the digital cost me $13 and something cents. The hard copy costs like $24
Looks a lot like the Belgian blueing process I use. What is the part number for the carding wheel? I presume it's one from Brownells.
Alcohol is used in other hobbies to break the surface tension
Hey now! 🤑
Your points at the end would have been burned in our minds if only you had worn the jammies. Thanks for being you.