Have a mullet setup now (eagle w/10-50 in back, force 1x axs in front) and love it. Performs amazingly well. The reviewer seems very concerned about looks. I'm more concerned about performance, adjustability and reliability.
We appreciate there are a lot of numbers here. This video will be featured in an article on BikeRadar.com, with all the numbers and detail, in the future. We'll provide a link to that once it's live. For future groupset tests we will try our best to provide the numbers in a table. Thanks for watching!
I agree..graphics would have helped. I was shocked that you looked to have all the data committed to memory! I will read the article when available. Thank you for covering this topic. I am very keen to learn all I can about the Rival options and how they stack up wrt to performance, reliability , serviceability, and long term cost. Great Review👍👍
on such a data heavy video, it would be good to see the weight / cost etc in a table instead of the same old clips of Warren shredding some Gnar on that outrageous bit of X-treme off-roading. I liked the video though and interesting to see the conclusion of the mix-and-match approach. I guess it's a shame it would be very expensive to buy bits individually instead of the whole groupset when they're 50% off on whatever your online retailer of choice is
Thanks for the feedback! We'll do our best to include the information in a visual way for future groupset tests. Thanks for watching, from all at BikeRadar!
I’ve built a gravel travel/bikepacking bike using a Ritchey Outback Breakaway frame. I have a Force AXS Wide groupset on it. I’m using mechanical disc calipers however (Paul Components calipers), because I need to split the rear cable to break down the frame for travel. I need the wireless feature to make breaking down the bike simple, so Di2 would not work for me. Right now I am a little past midway of my initial trip with the bike. I flew from Montana USA to begin riding in Thessaloniki Greece to Barcelona Spain. Now I’m in Torino Italy. I love the Force AXS. Shifting is perfect! The brake levers have gotten dinged up due to the rigors of travel. The rear mech has taken a beating too. I went down at slow speed to the limestone road in Zadar Croatia when I missed seeing a slight curb. After that my third cog wouldn’t work correctly, but an easy micro adjustment got everything back good or better than new. I’ve recharged the front battery once and the rear twice on this trip, and I always have a fully charged third battery on board. Picking between Force and Rival is a tiny issue to me. The bigger thing is that most people are still using cable actuated transmissions. AXS is better. Far better. In practice it takes a beating, it holds adjustment, it shifts crisply, and it does so wirelessly. AXS has also won me over from Shimano. I have had several Shimano and Campagnolo drivetrains, but i have become a SRAM loyalist.
It’s not a clutch on the Sram force derailleur but they call it fluid drive. I’ve owned over 40 bikes in my years and Sram IMO has leaped far ahead of Shimano. I still like Shimano chains, brakes and bottom brackets. I recently built a Sram Axs 12 speed 1X12 road bike and it is awesome. I had a di2 bike and sometimes a pain in the rear charging it. Especially when the battery is older. Sram batteries are cheap and I can keep a spare in my bike bag. I don’t really buy a group set. I just use the best parts available when I build a bike.
Incidentally, I just ordered a mixed Force/Rival groupset as an upgrade for my mechanical Gravelbike and went for almost the exact same mix as the one you suggested for the exact same reasons - Rival crankset and front mech for their better looks/accessability and Force for the rest due to the slightly better funtionality (fluid dampener on the rear mech, blip ports on the shifters. Thanks for this video since it assures me in my buying decisions! :D
A table would be nice! Overall weight, price...and how realistic is mixing it up, given groupsets are sold as a whole package? Well done to Warren for remembering the numbers, tho'!
I own the Rival AXS groupset and I personally think I would like to get keep everything Rival except the crankset. Having said this I would rather upgrade to the Red crankset/power meter. I think the Red crankset is a work of art and would save a significant amount of weight in the process. That's my only disappointment with Rival is the cast aluminum crankset. It looks nice enough when new but starts to get blemished easily with the shiny aluminum under the thin black paint. At least carbon cranks would just show a small rub mark. Outside of the crank I personally love the Rival groupset. Shifting is just as fast as anything else I've tried and the hood shape fits my hands extremely well. My brake calipers have never rubbed and are as responsive as I can expect out of disc brakes.
At this point you could probably wait a bit and see if Shimano come up with en electronic 105 groupset... You will keep the bottom bracket, and might be able to keep the chainset and brakes, depending on the new configuration.
You will need a new wheelset then. 12 gear Cassette is wider than an 11 gear cassette and it is unlikely the dishing of the wheel will accommodate a 12 gear cassette. You will also need a new freehub. I looked at converting my bike to DI2 but couldn't without drilling holes in the frame so looked at SRAM as it is wireless but then I hit the problem with needing new wheels (or rather a new rear wheel). Decided after looking at the cost that a new bike would be a better investment
@@daveoram7249 I've already purchased the group. All that was needed was an XDR freehub, $100 and done. I'll find some grommets to plug the holes for the old derailleur frame openings. It depends on what you already have. If your rear wheel can take a different freehub, it should be an easy conversion.
@@daveoram7249 I don't think needing a new wheelset is true. I am by no means a bike mechanic but was under the impression that freehub bodies would accommodate the 12 speed cassettes. It's not until you get down into 8 speed territory that your freehub body might not be long enough depending on how old the bike/wheelset is. Typically the smaller cassettes use bushings and just removing/adding the necessary bushing will enable you to run 12 speed groupsets.
Lol I run mix and match of Shimano alivio, Altus, and acera on my bike. Works great. Mix and match with group sets is a great idea as you can get essentially the same performance of a full higher end groupset at a lower cost. If the components come from the same manufacturer and are same number of speeds you shouldn’t run into many issues.
For affordability and usability, it has to be Rival AXS. Blips are fine when you're chewing the bar tape on MV or Ad'H, but not many get to do that in their lifetime. The ride differences must be negligible, but the savings are greater. Oh, and I AM A SRAM FAN.
On a recent build, I went with full Rival AXS but swapped in a Force crank and Force/Quarq PM spider. There's really no functional difference between Force and Rival and the Force crank is much nicer looking, significantly lighter and offers true double-sided power.
I have Ultegra mechanical on my daily road bike and had the chance to rent and ride across a few days and a few hundred kms a Force Axs equipped bike. Although of course the shifting performance and practicality is brilliant I didn’t find any massive gain compared to mechanical. However my next bike may be electric group set equipped just for the sake of bling 🤑
Having both mechanical and electronic and both Shimano and SRAM I'd pick Shimano mechanical. SRAM derraileurs shifting degrades over time and I've yet to find a real advantage of electronic.
@@edrcozonoking I just got a rival etap coming from an old ultegra mech... Using the etap is a bliss shifts softly and very fast and accurate... the ultegra works but needs alot of tune up since it is old and mechanical. So I dont see your point in saying deralleurs degrade because even mech degrades and I will argue it will degrade faster than electronic. At least I dont have to always tune up the electronic one
I am amazed, the first time I used the Rival eTap AXS, I was amazed. The best ist the fast switching of 3-4 gears with one click. It is much faster and smoother than any Dura Ace I have ridden before.
I totally agree..I have mechanical ultegra on my 2020 sl6 tarmac and my 2021 cervelo caledonia..I've road my friends bike w sram force etap for 2 weeks and i didn't see or feel any gains..I eventually went with shimano di2 on my 2021 S-works sl7 and haven't had a problem so far..I guess it comes down to preference..
Sram 12 speed barely seems to wear at all. I did 7500 miles on a sram red axs chain and it wasn’t even at .5 wear. I ended up changing it anyway! But it definitely had a tonne of life left
We think it's almost impossible to tell between brands. Choosing the right chain lubricant and checking your gearing is setup correctly on a regular basis will definitely help no matter what brand you are using. Thanks for watching!
What direction other than wireless? If any, Shimano may lose a few points in market share, but they're so big, especially with low-budget components that it won't hurt them. Sram even gve up on gear hubs, handing the monopoly to Shimano. And Campagnolo, no matter how beautiful and functional their components are, are too small anyway to compete, they will stay a boutique brand with no footing in the OEM market.
My latest Bike is only available with Shimano or SRAM. At the time of purchase I really weighted the pros and cons of going with another brand than the one I’m used to (Campag). At the time I also wasn’t ready to spend an absurd amount of money on Campag EPS (since it exists only on SR form), so I decided to go SRAM Force. Big mistake! As the old saying states: “buy cheap buy twice!”. I really didn’t come to an understanding on how cheap feeling that groupset was. Noisy, clunky, slow, and “plasticky” are some adjectives that come to mind. Fortunately for me it seems that are plenty of people who don’t agree with me and I sold it very easily.
This is the best comparison I ever seen. Im on a tight choice between cheaper ( although nicer) bike with Rival and one with Force. Force equipped will cost 900 euro more, 700 gr lighter and has integrated cockpit. Really don't know.
I don't see a 10-33 rival cassette option on the sram website (or any local retailers). The sram site only lists a 10-30 and 10-36 option in rival and force has no 10-30 option but a 10-33 option. Is this an error in the video or have sram not listed the full amount on their site?
It's the second video with b-roll shots of Rival having the hood rubber not all the way on. Grinds me' gears more than it should really. And it's a shame that with Rival there are separate crank options for 1x and 2x - I can't see this as a saving, neither for manufacturer nor the customer.
Sram is about generating profit and nothing else. If shimano comes out with di2 105 then its game over for sram. All sram parts are basically more expensive than shimano.
Thinking of getting a Sram electronic 1X on my Marin Headlands frameset, curious about 1 thing, Can you use the Standard manual Force 1 chainring 11 speed on a 12 speed as???? I just think the Force 1 chainring looks better..
2:35 yeah on paper, but in the real world it's pretty much unusable on force. Even with the most aggressive contact point adjustment you can maybe get the reach adjustment 10% in, after that you bottom out the lever on your handlebar because of the fat shifter buttons. Absolute rubbish for smaller fingers.
@@matthewlewis2072 actually rim brakes were a thing until 2018, then the bike industry realized that people are willing to buy anything marketed well so they introduced disc brakes.
@@bikeradar So you're running tubeless on that Boardman? With the same tyres that come mounted when the general public buy it? Or did you swap the tyres to go Tubeless? I ask as mine arrives Friday and want to go Tubeless straight away, but unsure if the tyres are TLR.....
Would you mix your groupsets? Let us know what components you'd pick if you had the chance in the comments!
Have a mullet setup now (eagle w/10-50 in back, force 1x axs in front) and love it. Performs amazingly well. The reviewer seems very concerned about looks. I'm more concerned about performance, adjustability and reliability.
@@cbenson513 reviewer is concerned with looks becouse they're almost the only thing that changes other than weight and price
All rival, force chain, red crankset. Done
Rival shifters and crankset, eagle rear derailleur and 10-52 cassette.
As a triathlete I would get the Rival front and rear mech and force tt shifters and blips. Can you do that?
So many numbers. Only if there was a possibility to see them for visual comparison.
We appreciate there are a lot of numbers here. This video will be featured in an article on BikeRadar.com, with all the numbers and detail, in the future. We'll provide a link to that once it's live.
For future groupset tests we will try our best to provide the numbers in a table. Thanks for watching!
I agree..graphics would have helped. I was shocked that you looked to have all the data committed to memory! I will read the article when available. Thank you for covering this topic. I am very keen to learn all I can about the Rival options and how they stack up wrt to performance, reliability , serviceability, and long term cost. Great Review👍👍
This!
Put it in a table, rather than rattling off numbers at an incoherent pace
That Boardman looks very tempting. Also another Bikeradar video with Mr Rossiter “ripping it”
Yeah I guess we are to see him riding a patch of dirt many more times. Rowdy.
C+ BOTY. £2900 I think. Good looking (the bike, not Warren)
Helpful, it gave me the confidence to mix components - thank you.
on such a data heavy video, it would be good to see the weight / cost etc in a table instead of the same old clips of Warren shredding some Gnar on that outrageous bit of X-treme off-roading.
I liked the video though and interesting to see the conclusion of the mix-and-match approach. I guess it's a shame it would be very expensive to buy bits individually instead of the whole groupset when they're 50% off on whatever your online retailer of choice is
Thanks for the feedback! We'll do our best to include the information in a visual way for future groupset tests. Thanks for watching, from all at BikeRadar!
I’ve built a gravel travel/bikepacking bike using a Ritchey Outback Breakaway frame. I have a Force AXS Wide groupset on it. I’m using mechanical disc calipers however (Paul Components calipers), because I need to split the rear cable to break down the frame for travel. I need the wireless feature to make breaking down the bike simple, so Di2 would not work for me.
Right now I am a little past midway of my initial trip with the bike. I flew from Montana USA to begin riding in Thessaloniki Greece to Barcelona Spain. Now I’m in Torino Italy.
I love the Force AXS. Shifting is perfect! The brake levers have gotten dinged up due to the rigors of travel. The rear mech has taken a beating too. I went down at slow speed to the limestone road in Zadar Croatia when I missed seeing a slight curb. After that my third cog wouldn’t work correctly, but an easy micro adjustment got everything back good or better than new. I’ve recharged the front battery once and the rear twice on this trip, and I always have a fully charged third battery on board.
Picking between Force and Rival is a tiny issue to me. The bigger thing is that most people are still using cable actuated transmissions. AXS is better. Far better. In practice it takes a beating, it holds adjustment, it shifts crisply, and it does so wirelessly. AXS has also won me over from Shimano. I have had several Shimano and Campagnolo drivetrains, but i have become a SRAM loyalist.
It’s not a clutch on the Sram force derailleur but they call it fluid drive. I’ve owned over 40 bikes in my years and Sram IMO has leaped far ahead of Shimano. I still like Shimano chains, brakes and bottom brackets. I recently built a Sram Axs 12 speed 1X12 road bike and it is awesome. I had a di2 bike and sometimes a pain in the rear charging it. Especially when the battery is older. Sram batteries are cheap and I can keep a spare in my bike bag. I don’t really buy a group set. I just use the best parts available when I build a bike.
Incidentally, I just ordered a mixed Force/Rival groupset as an upgrade for my mechanical Gravelbike and went for almost the exact same mix as the one you suggested for the exact same reasons - Rival crankset and front mech for their better looks/accessability and Force for the rest due to the slightly better funtionality (fluid dampener on the rear mech, blip ports on the shifters. Thanks for this video since it assures me in my buying decisions! :D
What's a cheap way to drop some weight from my full Rival groupset? Maybe Force cassette and chain?
A table would be nice! Overall weight, price...and how realistic is mixing it up, given groupsets are sold as a whole package? Well done to Warren for remembering the numbers, tho'!
The advantave of the Force crankset is that it is modular and you only need to replace what you need, not the whole thing swapping 2x to 1x or power.
Great review - fantastic detail. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Great review! Really good insight into the system!
lmao, love the shade thrown at Campy there at the end.
Odd, because Warren used to be a massive Campagnolo fan. But they need to catch up, quick.
Force owner here. Would take it any day over all other options.
You’ve got the best frame color in the game.
Awesome video, you helped me so much! Thank you! =)
I own the Rival AXS groupset and I personally think I would like to get keep everything Rival except the crankset. Having said this I would rather upgrade to the Red crankset/power meter. I think the Red crankset is a work of art and would save a significant amount of weight in the process. That's my only disappointment with Rival is the cast aluminum crankset. It looks nice enough when new but starts to get blemished easily with the shiny aluminum under the thin black paint. At least carbon cranks would just show a small rub mark. Outside of the crank I personally love the Rival groupset. Shifting is just as fast as anything else I've tried and the hood shape fits my hands extremely well. My brake calipers have never rubbed and are as responsive as I can expect out of disc brakes.
For touching up your cranks, some sticky vinyl cut to size can refresh their appearance quite nicely
totally agree! I don't like the rival crankset at all, as soon as I get the chance I'll take a force crankset
I'm seriously considering upgrading from 105 to Rival eTap. 🤔
At this point you could probably wait a bit and see if Shimano come up with en electronic 105 groupset... You will keep the bottom bracket, and might be able to keep the chainset and brakes, depending on the new configuration.
@@GeorgeD1 that's true. But id rather change the bottom bracket versus trying to re-run cables Di2 through my integrated cockpit.
You will need a new wheelset then. 12 gear Cassette is wider than an 11 gear cassette and it is unlikely the dishing of the wheel will accommodate a 12 gear cassette. You will also need a new freehub. I looked at converting my bike to DI2 but couldn't without drilling holes in the frame so looked at SRAM as it is wireless but then I hit the problem with needing new wheels (or rather a new rear wheel). Decided after looking at the cost that a new bike would be a better investment
@@daveoram7249 I've already purchased the group. All that was needed was an XDR freehub, $100 and done. I'll find some grommets to plug the holes for the old derailleur frame openings. It depends on what you already have. If your rear wheel can take a different freehub, it should be an easy conversion.
@@daveoram7249 I don't think needing a new wheelset is true. I am by no means a bike mechanic but was under the impression that freehub bodies would accommodate the 12 speed cassettes. It's not until you get down into 8 speed territory that your freehub body might not be long enough depending on how old the bike/wheelset is. Typically the smaller cassettes use bushings and just removing/adding the necessary bushing will enable you to run 12 speed groupsets.
Love the costs and the thought of mixing the best with budget sounds great too. Now do I add a new bike to my new Rival groupset😉🤙
It would be so much less frustrating if prices and weights were listed on the screen. Cheers!
Had sram force axs on my previous steed, now full sram red axs. Great groupset.
Lol I run mix and match of Shimano alivio, Altus, and acera on my bike. Works great. Mix and match with group sets is a great idea as you can get essentially the same performance of a full higher end groupset at a lower cost. If the components come from the same manufacturer and are same number of speeds you shouldn’t run into many issues.
Great review. Please put all numbers being read out in a table for easy visual assistance.
If I went wireless I'd be using an eagle rear derailleur and an e*thirteen 9-50 for a Good mullet build
For affordability and usability, it has to be Rival AXS. Blips are fine when you're chewing the bar tape on MV or Ad'H, but not many get to do that in their lifetime. The ride differences must be negligible, but the savings are greater. Oh, and I AM A SRAM FAN.
On a recent build, I went with full Rival AXS but swapped in a Force crank and Force/Quarq PM spider. There's really no functional difference between Force and Rival and the Force crank is much nicer looking, significantly lighter and offers true double-sided power.
Doing the same on my new Aethos
They dont make force in 160 mm..I would go for rival for that. More weight would translate to not flexing
I have Ultegra mechanical on my daily road bike and had the chance to rent and ride across a few days and a few hundred kms a Force Axs equipped bike. Although of course the shifting performance and practicality is brilliant I didn’t find any massive gain compared to mechanical. However my next bike may be electric group set equipped just for the sake of bling 🤑
Having both mechanical and electronic and both Shimano and SRAM I'd pick Shimano mechanical. SRAM derraileurs shifting degrades over time and I've yet to find a real advantage of electronic.
@@edrcozonoking I just got a rival etap coming from an old ultegra mech... Using the etap is a bliss shifts softly and very fast and accurate... the ultegra works but needs alot of tune up since it is old and mechanical. So I dont see your point in saying deralleurs degrade because even mech degrades and I will argue it will degrade faster than electronic. At least I dont have to always tune up the electronic one
I am amazed, the first time I used the Rival eTap AXS, I was amazed. The best ist the fast switching of 3-4 gears with one click. It is much faster and smoother than any Dura Ace I have ridden before.
I totally agree..I have mechanical ultegra on my 2020 sl6 tarmac and my 2021 cervelo caledonia..I've road my friends bike w sram force etap for 2 weeks and i didn't see or feel any gains..I eventually went with shimano di2 on my 2021 S-works sl7 and haven't had a problem so far..I guess it comes down to preference..
I would have to go with force shifters as I want to add shifters to my aero clip on bars.
Sram 12 speed barely seems to wear at all. I did 7500 miles on a sram red axs chain and it wasn’t even at .5 wear. I ended up changing it anyway! But it definitely had a tonne of life left
Is there a difference in noise level between the two? Thanks for the detail review!
The thing that's kept my preference for Shimano is the belief that the drive train is more quiet. Does my belief have some truth?
Curious about that, as ultegra start to be a bit "old" compared to these sram axs, if it's only a legend or if sram is really louder/less fluid.
We think it's almost impossible to tell between brands. Choosing the right chain lubricant and checking your gearing is setup correctly on a regular basis will definitely help no matter what brand you are using. Thanks for watching!
Obviously if the rival is a lower tier than force how would it be better. Also force is more compatible crank wise
If Shimano or Campa don't follow suit in this direction soon, things will be tight and SRAM will become more and more. Thanks for the video.
And thanks for watching!
What direction other than wireless? If any, Shimano may lose a few points in market share, but they're so big, especially with low-budget components that it won't hurt them. Sram even gve up on gear hubs, handing the monopoly to Shimano. And Campagnolo, no matter how beautiful and functional their components are, are too small anyway to compete, they will stay a boutique brand with no footing in the OEM market.
My latest Bike is only available with Shimano or SRAM. At the time of purchase I really weighted the pros and cons of going with another brand than the one I’m used to (Campag). At the time I also wasn’t ready to spend an absurd amount of money on Campag EPS (since it exists only on SR form), so I decided to go SRAM Force.
Big mistake! As the old saying states: “buy cheap buy twice!”. I really didn’t come to an understanding on how cheap feeling that groupset was. Noisy, clunky, slow, and “plasticky” are some adjectives that come to mind.
Fortunately for me it seems that are plenty of people who don’t agree with me and I sold it very easily.
Usually cheaper to get a whole groupset than bits and pieces ? Unless you're shopping bit by bit and waiting for sales ?
Those are statements, not questions.
Great and detailed comparison. How did u record all those numbers? :)
Warren's brain has an incredible capacity for anything bike related!
This is the best comparison I ever seen. Im on a tight choice between cheaper ( although nicer) bike with Rival and one with Force. Force equipped will cost 900 euro more, 700 gr lighter and has integrated cockpit. Really don't know.
I don't see a 10-33 rival cassette option on the sram website (or any local retailers). The sram site only lists a 10-30 and 10-36 option in rival and force has no 10-30 option but a 10-33 option. Is this an error in the video or have sram not listed the full amount on their site?
From what I have read there is no Rival 10-33 cassette and assume he meant the 10-30 one.
Rival it is 👌
It's the second video with b-roll shots of Rival having the hood rubber not all the way on. Grinds me' gears more than it should really. And it's a shame that with Rival there are separate crank options for 1x and 2x - I can't see this as a saving, neither for manufacturer nor the customer.
Sram is about generating profit and nothing else. If shimano comes out with di2 105 then its game over for sram. All sram parts are basically more expensive than shimano.
Works.
I have Force eTap AXS without crankset...i plan to buy Rivel Crankset AXS w/power meter...It will work?
Rival with Force casette here
Thinking of getting a Sram electronic 1X on my Marin Headlands frameset, curious about 1 thing,
Can you use the Standard manual Force 1 chainring 11 speed on a 12 speed as????
I just think the Force 1 chainring looks better..
If it comes to brakes, can I use Force or Rival Axs shifters with Apex 1 calipers?
Rival AXS with SRAM RED Carbon cranks . Thoughts ?
Red are easily the ugliest cranks Sram has ever made.
im running force AXS and the bite point adjustment is pretty much useless.
Ultegra mech ofc
2:35 yeah on paper, but in the real world it's pretty much unusable on force. Even with the most aggressive contact point adjustment you can maybe get the reach adjustment 10% in, after that you bottom out the lever on your handlebar because of the fat shifter buttons. Absolute rubbish for smaller fingers.
Too many numbers, why don't you put a taller that we can pause to check all the data?
Force and it’s not even close
how reset a group
should have made a rim brake model. i feel left out
Have you got down-tube shifters, too? 🤣
@@matthewlewis2072 actually rim brakes were a thing until 2018, then the bike industry realized that people are willing to buy anything marketed well so they introduced disc brakes.
SWorks deserves red
... but then Specialized would think they "deserve" over 12,000 $/£ for such a bike😉.
Just realize it, 3.2kilos - 1300$
I guess your running tubeless, anyway ffor all the video I was so concerned about your rear tyre! It looks a lot underinflated!
We really rate using tubeless tyres as it allows for lower pressures and more comfort for our pot holed roads!
... you're* running ...
@@bikeradar So you're running tubeless on that Boardman? With the same tyres that come mounted when the general public buy it?
Or did you swap the tyres to go Tubeless?
I ask as mine arrives Friday and want to go Tubeless straight away, but unsure if the tyres are TLR.....
The weight, particularly on the Rival group is truly laughable.
Especially compared to 105 Di2...oh
As if Sram's cranks weren't already ugly enough, they had to copy Rotor cranks to make them even uglier.
Those hoods are really awful 🤮
so many numbers and such fast talking - you just zone out watching
i really hate how sram market their mtb 12 speed as Eagle and their road 12 speed as AXS
Who cares when they’re both SRAM?