Why are the WET tyres in F1 NEVER used?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2022
- Explaining the reasons behind hardly ever seeing the wet weather tyre during F1 Grand Prix weekends...
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I always love hearing Martin Brundle say "Let them race already. They're the 20 best drivers in the world. Let them figure it out".
Meanwhile Latifi: 🏎️🔄🔃↩️↪️🔥
Everyone else: 🤦♂️
@@metro3313 goatifi only uses 0.01% of his power so others can have a chance.
The drivers themselves supported the decision to delay the start of the race. It's a circuit full of blind corners, close walls and being a night race you can add the glare. Having a race full of SC's and VSC's (not to mention red flags) would be super frustrating.
@@soundscape26 the race was full of SCs and VSCs
The 19 best and Latifi
F1 when missiles strike: 😃
F1 when it's raining: 🤬
so for Japanese GP we need north korea to nuke japan or what?
True ✌️
F1: WHAT mi$$iles??? We didn't $ee any mi$$iles!
@@gpapazac uhh i think your s broke
@@ricofabian1874 you didn't get it, admit it
Yeah we were robbed of unpredictable and exciting races TWICE now this season, because race control decided to wait for an eternity until it is dry enough.
It is also extremely unfair towards the smaller teams, because they don't have a chance to benefit from chaotic circumstances.
The race was somewhat unpredictable with all the SC's and VSC's... the problem is that it's borderline impossible to overtake in Singapore without DRS (and even with it it's quite hard) so trains will form.
Problem with Monaco: power outage
Problem with Singapore: new tarmac in Sector 3. Do you really want Nürburgring 2007 to happen again?
@@soundscape26 Redbull Ferrari Ferrari. Wow so unpredictable. Who could've seen that coming.
@@soundscape26 I was at the Singapore GP. The conditions were way too bad for wet tires, not to mention there was some serious lightning for some of the delay.
@@neilgoro9609 It had mostly stopped raining 20 minutes before the original start time. While a delay was pretty inevitable, they could have got going long before the actual start. If there is going to be a significant delay why do we need all the usual preamble when its finally time to get going? Why can't the teams do what they usually do on the grid but from the garages then send all the cars out for the formation lap from the pits?
Here after KMag used the wets to go from P14 to P5 in 3 laps (and then up to P4 a few laps later)
I really didn't understand why they delayed Singapore. Still today, I can't find an answer. WET tyres were ideal for such conditions and I think it would've made for crazy pitstop strats for inters and then dry tyres
Cause the track is already unsafe and unfit for F1 even dry.
19 best drivers in the world. Plus Goatifi or Mazepin
Poor visibility and close walls for the most part. It's a very peculiar track where almost every retirement forces a SC or a VSC.
Visibility, the track is iluminated with thousands of lamps that reflect light at various angles, water spray in the air make this reflections spread out and lower visiblity much much more than if it was at day light.
Street tracks get super greasy when wet compared to a dedicated race track with a clean surface
It was amusing watching the MotoGP races in Thailand the same weekend. There was so much rain (especially during Moto2) that there was effectively a river across the tarmac. Despite running on 2 tires, instead of 4, they still ventured out on their wet tyres. If MotoGP can race in the wet, then F1 should certainly be able to as well.
What I heard from it is that riders weren’t happy with that decision. So expect that not to happen again.
@@imrandarr1094 It seemed mixed. Aleix Espargaro strongly voiced concerns so the directors went around the grid to ask each rider for their opinion. As far as I could tell, there were enough riders who didn't mind the wet that they decide to go ahead and start.
@@NiSE_Rafter especially Miguel, we all know what he can do in the wets
I still can’t get my head around how the bike doesn’t slip away from under them when they go through corners in the wet, it just seems like it defies physics
@@sjoerd7512 Contact patch is way smaller so aquaplanning is less of an issue
The fact that F1 use to race in full wets when I was growing up watching it, makes me sad 😫 but yes, there's no point having wet tyres nowadays as if it's "too wet", then there's no race at all and those tyres aren't used... 🙄
I remember watching F1 like 6/7 years ago and they used wets all the time. I miss the blue stripes showing up on track 😢
@@gadgetguy1379 same here! It's a shame especially as the cars are MUCH safer now than when they actually did race in full wet 🤔 so that confuses me a bit...
The problem is most likely the standing water that caused aquaplanning. Heavy rain would cause lots of standing water.
Well since the tyres are bigger this year, we see its not very safe now....
@@mahiru20ten then you have the answer: full wet tyres
Spa 2021 was a weird day. There was a dense fog in the air and the mist from cars made visibility very bad. But the Singapore GP this year could have started at the proper time and it would have been fine.
the support races ran though
I remember a time when there were 3 types of wet weather tyres: Intermediates, Full Wets and the Monsoon Tyre (I believe that‘s what it was called). So it is just a form of natural progression that the full wets aren’t used anymore. In 20 years the inter gets the axe.
What, so no more wet racing?
@@hdr_diamondz The way its going it would not surprise me, the race will get cancelled if its lightly raining lol
We’ve already been through period that before the useless Monsoon tires. First gen Inters were pointless and avoided
NASCAR even races in the wets sometimes nowadays, with cars that basically don't have breaks....
@@Chase92488 Honestly at this point F1 might as well invest in giant track blowers and dryers like Nascar to just blow off water on the tracks if this is how things are goin
Back in the 1990s I remember a race at Spa where Jordan changed to Goodyear full wets during a pit stop and I remember pit lane reporter for RTE (Irish television) Declan Quigley saying "they've gone onto the full quatro wets, soft option". Now that suggests to me that they not only had full wets but different compound options of full wet tyres!
They did. I remember this time very well.
They had intermediates, full wets and moonsoon tires
Full wets are soft compound only. The different tread patterns determine the type.
Remember the Bridgestone inters? They could run at a window that covers the current Pirelli full wets up to a bone dry track and still go strong.
I think an ideal solution would be to develop a truly slick intermediate like Toyota used in their LMP1 program to huge success, or maybe groove then slightly on the shoulders like some inters, (probably unpopular opinion coming up) make the inter a 'wet' tire slightly more optimized for conditions wetter than a drying track, and then redevelop the wet tire to not suck and have it as a monsoon wet.
Edit: what I'm really saying is bring back a dang tire war.
That would involve F1 learning from other series though so it's simply not possible.
@@BiggieTrismegistus 💀💀
Like Bridgestone tires? 👀🤣🤡
Why isn't anyone asking Pirelli why their wet weather tyres are so bad in the wet? Why can't they produce a better wet weather tyre that the drivers and teams will actually use. The comment by Seb only goes to show that neither the teams nor drivers want to use the current wet weather tyres, so make them better.
pirelli are probably going to try out new wet compounds for next year, I really doubt they don't see the issues with the current wets, same as they see the issue with the tyres having too much rear balance
This gave me Karen vibes
No need to invest too much in a tire that gets used maybe once or twice in the calendar
Maybe the drivers should get better
I mean it’s an equally shit tire for everyone. I don’t see a problem. Like the comment above me. Maybe they need to get good.
In the early days of me watching F1 back in 2005, hearing that rain was expected was exciting!
Now, hearing rain is expected is a sign that i can wait half an hour or even an hour to tune in...
an hour? you can even wait until the race ended, im talking to you Spa
Well this aged perfectly. It was like 2 laps of wet tires 😂
Man, you nailed the timing on this video...
If the full wets are too hard to be usable (per Seb’s comment) then Pirelli should soften the compound or otherwise improve them so that they can be used. Or make a tire in between the full wets and inters and ditch the full wets, no one ever uses them anyway
Yeah, rain nowadays means boring race and a possibility of no race at all… wet racing used to be fun, now it’s something I dread
I was so happy when I saw it was raining last Sunday. ‘Oh this is gunna be good!’ Nope.
this, like the past five wtf1 videos i’ve watched, does not on any way answer the question posed by the title, nor provide any information or analysis i couldn’t find anywhere (everywhere) else. keep doing what you’re doing lads, what a hustle you’ve got going
The problem is the FIA. When Masi was with the FIA, he was more daring. He let drivers race in torrential conditions, like the Start of Germany 2019 GP and Q3 in Belgium GP Qualifying. Those were wet weather conditions. I think the current FIA do not like to race in conditions like these because of what happens at Belgium in 2021. They care about safety. The problem is, if we keep waiting for the rain to clear for intermediates, when the weather is perfectly fine for wets, then we never get any race time.
Masi also oversaw that abortion at Spa 2021...
@paper plane I agree on not racing.
The safety car parade, however, was an abortion so F1 didn't need to refund anything.
@@hotshtsr20 buddy, there was fog and then rain during the Spa 2021, combined that with the spray these cars create, making the visibility even worse. Now compare that with this recent Singapore 2022 GP, there was no fog, just rain.
@@just_some_bigfoot_hacking_you Don’t call me buddy, pal. :)
I’m talking about the farce that was a “race” more than go/no go on racing.
this video aged well after the japanese GP
There used to be a Super Hard tyre in 2018 and it never got used
the orange ones? yea I remember that xD for the dry condition tyres I like that season a lot. but I would love to see more rain starts and stuff when there is an opportunity
Wasn't they called monsoon tyres
ah, back when there were 7 dry compounds, weird times
@@mangoofmagic4305 no, only 5 dry...
@@matthiasehling6763 No they actually had 7 dry tyres in 2018 with the hypersoft, ultrasoft, supersoft, soft, medium, hard and superhard
I’ve been following F1 for as long as I can remember because my family have been following it since before I was born but I was never really Into It, like I’d watch it with the family if it was on and laugh at one of the driver’s names being shortened to “Ham” (still quite amusing) and that was it. Until, lockdown 2020 when the weekly race weekends were a real comfort and thus began my descent into The Car Fandom. Really got into it this year and pages like your guys’ are really nice and comforting as a new(ish) fan and it’s fun to be able to hear and learn stuff like this and not feel intimidated :-) Even put your podcast on to keep me company during late night exam cramming haha. WTF1 you guys are so cool!
Totally agree. If Sainz aquaplaned in Suzuka on the wets like he did on the inters i would not be angry at the pause, like Malaysia 2009
You jinxed it mate!😅
Completely agree.
What's the point of having a wet weather tire if you're not going to start the race until it's dry?
They're for clearing the water behind safety car and then you start racing on the intermediate.
The most important element of comedy? Timing.
The problem is exactly the innovation introduced this year: Ground effect aero. The kind of puddles and rivers that forms on the track will easily disrupt the work of underbody aero devices, causing unpredictable amount of grips they can generate. I don't think the FIA will allow anymore drenched wet race until they and the teams understand the behaviour of these cars on wet conditions better.
Source: trust me bro.
I've wondered the same and the ground effect may be a bigger challenge in those conditions, but a wet clause in the regulations could allow them to adjust ride height to manage that in the wet, similar to how tyre requirements during wet races changes.
Cars also don't always have to be driven at full speed, something which F1 seems to forget a lot these days. The drivers will find the limit regardless of conditions, if that is 60mph they'll do that until they can try for 61.
While is technically true the recent mandatory 15mm ride height imcrease has incidentally negated that risk.
Gets used in Japan Grand Prix 2 days later
Great point about the (possible) crossover between wets and intermediates. That is why they should be used!
a artificial wet race could be interesting where the track is kept wet all the way though
Bernie is that you?
its funny they suggested doing that and now it even couldnt be done... or i guess they could spray like 0.1mm layer of water on the road and then spread it even
As FIA has great confidance in the Tyre makers.. wet Tyre will never be used
Who's watching this video now after the tires get used at Japan GP?
I think it's most likely to do with the combination street circuit + full wets. I can imagine the race would've started on a proper circuit with proper run off area
Suzuka is not a proper circuit ❌😵💫🤔🤭😹
Try again
@@MsZeeZed yeah my comment didnt age well now did it 😂
@@kevinsmits1196 No-one’s about F1 ever do 😹
Hear hear! Great editing too as always.
Assuming the wet tyre is actually useful, I am okay with delaying a race start with drivers safety in mind. Especially the start can be dangerous under wet conditions.
But maybe use them, when rain is getting stronger later in the race?
Personally I'd rather have a rolling start and a wet race than waiting for the track to dry and having a standing start.
This aged well 😂
Who's watching these during the Red flag?
me, fia sucks
This aged well.
Instead of removing the wets, knowing f1, they will remove one of the dry tyres lol
never say never - Haas 2024 Canadian F1 Grand Prix
So who's here in between the Japanese grand prix? Or rather the lack of one?
Love that image of the car aquaplaning! That's a classic!!!
I remembered watching the race in Sepang back in 2009. It was an insane event. The race had to stop not even halfway due to how heavy the rain went on. Lots of cars aquaplaned and spun out. But that also showed how each team really skimp on making the car perform even when it comes to wet condition. U would expect the most prestigious racing event should have a car that works on most conditions but nah. Vapour trails coming out of the wing, massive water being diverted by the tyres. Shame we never get to see a race like that anymore.
well there's still that chance for singapore... but then "play it safe" *mr bean shaky palm wave.gif*
who’s here after Suzuka
And then suddenly rain tyres did get used, something about Murphy...
for about a lap or 3
They should make a tire between intermediate and slicks, that way it would force more strategy to happen while also allowing the F1 to keep the focus on delaying starts for safety
you showed a gif of a Mariners game, well timed.
This did not age well.
They were literally used today
yea after 1 hour delay
because they were forced to use them... they changed to intermediates as soon as possible
I agree so much with letting races start on wet conditions- it's so damn fun to see teams and drivers nervously scramble and decide whether they should stick to wets or make the gamble and follow the herd to switch to intermediates.
This week I rewatched 1982 monaco gp, to know there was a car on track half the race without being removed was weird, looking how far it has gone
Wet tyres: exist
Ayrton Senna: I don't understand.
They need to go back to only having slicks and a 'wet' option that sits halfway between the current intermediate and the wet tyres. I think it was Bridgestone who introduced the inter tyre, outfoxing Goodyear. Just change the options as if the cars are never going to race in full wet conditions then there's no point having the tyres that can do so.
This was the perfect timing to post this video xD
I like the term interslicks. As they start in the intermediate then wear to slicks
The problem is the wider tyres nowadays it gives off too much spray for safety. (I guess...)
The 85lt water displacement is just too much for current safety regulations apparently, so make the full wets displace like 55 lt (or make a 3rd compound between inters and full wets) couse the gap from 85lt to 30lt is kinda big..
Ps I call them "Interslicks" 😉
My opinion is that FIA didn't want to start the race as you guys mentioned the New Wets are a horrendous compound and not liked by drivers so they thought Street courses are more dangerous and likelihood of someone crashing in wet is high, so the red flag for the damage repair would cost them roughly the same amount of time as a delayed start would and when you take into account the prediction was for the rain to blow away FIA decided to wait.
Both times delays happened at Street circuits. My guess is as Suzuka is a classical track they won't do that again especially after the criticism they've faced by the fans.
The shadow of Jules Bianchi still looms over Suzuka. They won't risk any wet running there.
@@tomhutchins7495 I'm not quite certain but they had a wet qualifying in 2016 or 2017 but yeah even if that was true I think you're right FIA has gotten a bit too prudent post Abu Dhabi 21.
Wet tyres at Suzuka: Is this the day? Is this the day?
2022 Japanese GP: Yes, unfortunately...
Lol love the intro with the wet tyres waiting
Funny how right after this came out, they use wets
Seems like the big issue is visibility with the amount of spray produced by the wet weather tires.
I somehow managed to simulate a difference between wet and inters by accident. I was playing F1 22 MyTeam Career mode, when it was heavy rain at Spa. with like 7 laps to go, the rain backed off to inter conditions. I made the call to go in for inters, and the pit stop sent me from 7th to 21st (would have been 22nd but KMAG exploded). Gasly had somehow made a 16 car DRS train without DRS being active, so I managed to get my way all the way up to 4th place in the span of 5 laps, despite my car being 9th in performance
I think if they started earlier it would have been only wets to inter. still would have been a nice change. but I think in the future there will be dry compounds and 1 wet compound (the intermediate we have now).
As a pre-slicks watcher (modern era) we need to see wet tyres used more, the pace doesn't matter, is the race! I'd bet red bull would win because it would be a strategy race 👌 sorry Charles
I mean it's simple, the FIA sucks at their job and doesn't understand racing in the rain is possible and cancel or delay the race when it rains. Rain is when true driver skill comes out so only ever using inters means the drivers are never truly tested in the wet. FIA needs to stop being so scared.... of racing.
The FIA is a completely pointless organization and racing series should just tell it to piss off. All the FIA does is make everything worse with their bureaucratic, overly complicated nonsense.
just wanna say that thumbnail is absolutely fantastic
A nice soft compound that can hold a little more heat and wear in quite fast would give the tires more of a chance at being chosen over the inters. Meaning they would grip way better than the inters but wouldn't last as long to balance out both types at the end of a long run. You have to give the teams options on both sides so they can work different strategies instead of everyone doing the same thing at the same time. Let a wet specialist slap on a set of wets and go gun-ho for enough laps to get a cushion before hitting the inters with everyone else.
yeah the wets need to be softer, maybe split to 2 grades of Wet. they don't heat up and slidey bcs of that even tho they channel the water away well, but inters do that 90% as well. Or maybe they can just make inters the new wet tyre, but split it into hard and soft grades
Important fact that you forgot to mention is the new car design which lifts the air up at the back of the car so overtaking will be easier. However during rainy wheter it causis a fog effect, reducing visibility massively.
Love the vids mate! As an insider, I can assure you that one of the many reasons wets weren’t use was because of the street circuit and it’s proximity from track to wall. Yes Monaco is also a street circuit and wets were use but only because high profile names were at the event and they were getting extremely disappointed with the outcome of waiting, it was Also lower speeds and shorter track. Can you imagine the disaster it would have been to see a wet race in Singapore, if 1/5 of the cars dnf due to drivers mistakes from track conditions or mechanical failure also cause by track conditions it was a sure guarantee double the cars would have on wets. That means more spending on the teams and more controversy over the budget cap. Ultimately it came down to will cars crash and will they exceed the budget cap.
I'm not an insider and this was obvious to me... they tried to avoid a chaotic race given the characteristics of the track. Basides the obvious safety of the drivers there's also the potential cost of crashed cars.
They don't want New York E prix happening again. And I dunno why everyone can't see this
at @2:41
IM NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!??? 😯THANK YOU!! i really thought i was alone on this xD
1:39 In the Spanish broadcast they call them "interslicks"
This hasn’t aged well…… Suzuka says hold my beer.
This video didn't age well.
I think if the full wets are necessary so they don’t delay a session also they should add the slinnermidets as a cyan color and it be a medium but work in the cold this would be helpful for the one dry lane
There's a huge difference between using full wets at real circuits and at a street circuit. The streets have high barriers either side (or buildings), and the water that gets thrown up in the air has nowhere to go but back down on the track. In Japan, Brazil and Silverstone, three often wet races, the full wets can clear the track of standing water in a matter of laps, assuming nothing else is adding water to the puddling.
Spa and Monza have trees which can keep the moisture in the air until the cars generate enough particles into the air where they combine with the mist thrown up. That can make it even _worse_ than at the three mentioned above. Actually Melbourne is pretty good at shifting the heavier rain because of its layout.
I'll be honest, I don't mind if the race starts behind the safety car. In the wetter conditions, standing starts can be asking for trouble, and I don't know about you, but I have seen far too many crashes in the wet that didn't need to happen if only they'd waited an hour...
If it's wet at Suzuka, assuming that it's not as insane as Spa last year, they could well use the full wets.
Even at 2021 Belgium i thought the FIA were too cautious. Look at Canada 2011 and Malaysia 2012. Sectors like lakes.. that's what we want to see
So you want to see drivers injured I guess?
Suzuka *cough.
Spa 2021 was my first F1 race lol
They’re just afraid.
I used to be hyped up when i heard there was rain on the horizon, now they aren’t going to race in it anyways and wait until it’s bone dry. It’s such a shame because wet weather races used to be fun.
The wet tyres are actually very useful in their tears 😭
here during 2022 japanese gran prix red flag
Literally talked this thing with my sister when we watched Singapore GP. WTF1 you read our minds
Hey Matt it's used in JpGp
Although it's not team decision
uoooh wet tire 😭😭
Japanese gp take notes
personally i think they should have different wet tire compounds like they did in the past, if the tires are too hard in the current state it makes sense why no drive actively want to use them, it also makes sense why the intermediate tires are used so much because they are softer and can almost perform like a slick tire in the right conditions.
Say what you will about Masi, but he did give us some great spectacles
He even tried to start Spa, which everyone knew was impossible
The current race direction will postpone a race start if the humidity is too high
I think one of the reasons why we no longer have wet races is that cars are too heavy. Once you lose control, it’s over.
Well, this aged poorly
I remember growing up seeing rain was so exciting and now it’s like nascar where we just have to wait and instead of an exciting race with the best of the best having to navigate the conditions it’s predictable and sometimes not even a full race…
Love how right after watching this video I turn on for the Japanese GP free practice 2 and they are running full wets
Thanks now I now it actually exists 😅
This aged like milk
Totally agree with you! What’s the point of wet tyres if never used. Get them on and get racing
It's a direct line from the Bianchi accident to where we are. F1 has been terrified of wet weather since that tragic day in Japan.
Yes, that was indeed a tragic and unnecessary accident, but let's not forget the fact that Jules was driving waay to fast, under double yellows in a complete downpour with poor visibility. He didn't even slow down when entering the same corner where Sutil already HAD aquaplaned off the track. So bearing that fact in mind, combined with the introduction of VSC, Halo and so forth, that likely won't happen again. Well...unless you look at Suzuka last weekend when some imbecil once again let out a tractor on track while Gasly was still drivning in zero visibility conditions. The full wets are there to be used, and no tire whatsoever will save you if you hit a tractor head on. If you cannot get the grip you need - slow down or go off. They should be racing instead of waiting for it to dry up.
@@hedge58 Gasly is entirely to blame for his close encounter with the crane; safety car was out, he was aware of the position of the crash, and yet he was speeding around the track like he was in dry conditions. Safety car means slow the hell down and be ready to stop because there are things out on the track (whether that's a vehicle, debris, or marshalls). The entire grid slowly went past the crane with the safety car before Gasly got there.
0:04 List of useless things in this Universe:
-WET Tyres
That's it.
And your appendix. Don’t forget that!
bring back hypersofts
?
Wet weather races would be great, but some of the circuits like Singapore are just too tight for it to really make sense.
Wet weather races make a whole lot more sense on tracks with a lot more runoff, gravel and open area beyond the track limits in general.
As it is, I don't want another Jules Bianchi situation where the conditions led to a truly awful death for a promising young racer.
We can't expect all of the best drivers to be like Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna where they were able to lap their rivals in hurricane conditions.
They need to make inters more like slicks, and wets need to be much more durable to turn into current inters. Maybe put Wet tread on top of the current inters, so the wets turn into inters. And put the inter tread onto slicks and make the inters less able to handle water. Point being, you can have your current inters, but you have to burn through the full wet treat to get there. And the new inters will basically be slicks with a temporary "used inter" tread. Suddenly the full wets will be better since you just need to burn through the tread to get to current inters. And the inters will be for the cross over time to turn into slicks as the track dries out. But not too early lest they become slicks too early. Basically, the tire wear changes with track evolution at about the same rate. Say 5 laps of full wets to get rid of rivers, then the tires turn into inters. Inters last for 5 laps before they turn into slicks.