1930s Judo VS multiple attackers & randori
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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British Pathe footage:
• Judo Championships (1938)
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#Judo #MultipleAttackers #Randori #NoguchiSenryuken #BJJ #Sambo #Wrestling #GrandPrix #GrandSlam #Olympics #OlympicGames #MMA #UFC #Grappling #柔道 #講道館 #公益財団法人講道館 #嘉納治五郎 #高專柔道 #三角固 #бөх #講道館柔道 #Kodokan #KodokanJudo #柔術 #禁止技 #投の形
Judo is great self defence , wrestling too , having great throws is a huge part of combat , striking , stand up wrestling and groundwork is something everyone sould learn to be complete .
Love sparring with my wrestling brothers
Back in the day amateur boxing and a back belt in judo was solid mix, and still is.
@@EthanNoble right on!
@@huntermosely7420 Nice! Yeah we also do BJJ andkickboxing at my Dojo to be well rounded. Love it all. Grappling is king when it comes to fighting.
@@EthanNoble The world champion kickboxer has won MMA fights by submission and according to him boxing is enough for self-defense. He says he has had to defend himself a couple times and he only used his fists. Not bashing grappling but nothing is simpler and faster than a punch and nothing will kill you faster if you don't see it coming. You can muscle your way out of any hold or have ample time to call for help if someone grabs you but a strike happens in an instant.
Absolutely beautiful historical comparison of Judo from yesterday and today! Your ability to compare the evolution of Judo, Daitō-ryū, Aikido, and BJJ is second to none. You are a true professor of Jūjutsu! Keep the videos coming. You should have more subscribers!
Thank you 🙏🏻
Nowadays, both Judo and Aikido are taught as art forms. Judo usually emphasizes the sports/competitive aspect according to contest regulations.
Possibly a de-volution? Judo was never intended by Kano to be a competition sport but remain self defence. While modern Judokas are fighting for grip a boxer in a street situation would have landed a dozen punches!
Excellent episode. I first studied judo in the early 1960s. Watching the last summer olympics, I was struck by the emphasis on approach and grips as opposed to going in immediately for a standard arm/lapel grip followed by attempts at throw and a lot of ground work. This explains that. Also, we had a lot of emphasis on self defense (maybe because it was in NYC!!), even with multiple attackers. Thanks!!
Do you know why judokas don't use mouth guards
@@oscar-wi3tj So it is easier to scream when you break your collar bone!!!
@@arnoldcohen1250 ah makes sense
@@arnoldcohen1250 🤭🤭🤭
@@oscar-wi3tj Because there are no punches to the face like in Boxing!
man, those demonstrations and exhibitions from the past were WAAAYYY better than the modern ones you see. alot more realistic. good vid
That's the old style Judo as founded by Dr Jigoro Kano.
Really informative video. I initially started in bjj but doing judo now with my son. Really enjoying it but do get frustrated with the odd rules in judo about grips and leg grabs etc. Can say the same in bjj with the lack of standing fighting.
A hybrid of the 2, much like the judo you showed here, would be great to take part in.
Fantastic content.
Just want to add I would be very interested if you did a video about the influence and application of judo in sambo
I enjoy the video. But to reply to Ryan question standing fighting. I have been doing judo since elementary school up to high school. Love it but it wasn’t until I joined traditional Jitsu school did I feel I had a complete art. 1. Blocking 2.striking 3.Escaping ( breaking out wrestling holds) 4.pins ( submissions) 5. Entering throws (Aikido) 6. Throwing with fulcrum (judo). Now I’m combat ready. So find a school that offers the items listed above.
Same experience and idea. ;)
That 1912 demonstration is surprisingly impressive! Definitely the kind of Judo I've been wanting to learn. Classic, realistic, and straight from the mind of Kano. He had practical goals in mind when he created the art, not exploiting cage fighting rules, or whatever nonsense the Olympics have been doing. Have you considered teaching classic Judo online? I'm new to your channel but loving the content.
Judo in the 1930s was very similar to Jujitsu! Nowadays, Judo is taught strictly as a sport. For practical self defence, we need to adapt the techniques and include Atemi i.e. kicks and strikes to the vital points! Atemi is 70% of Judo, Jujitsu, Aikijitsu and old style Aikido.
I train martial arts for 4 reasons, 1 I love it, 2 self defense, 3 to compete hopefully and 4 to get in shape.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
I like how you put "I love it" as the 1st point!
Same here.
Ditto. Its a shame combat sports too often seem to get so watered down and bogged down by rules and red tape that they loose the combat side of the sport
Beautiful dissertation Chadi. Thank you.
Trying to hit someone who is throwing your friend is actually pretty difficult. When you apply this judo throws from strikes (like we do in jujitsu) the throws come swiftly and flow well.
I train both trad JJ and Judo. Even though modern Judo is designed for competition its still useful to have to apply throws dynamically from a resisting opponent
When I first learned Judo we focused on kata and gokyo. I think it made it safe and well rounded for children. I think Modern Judo is myopic and over specialized just as Modern Karate that many just understand what it as a sport not a valid means for self defense and martial arts.
Do you know why judokas don't use mouth guards?
@@oscar-wi3tj getting hit in the mouth or damaging teeth is rare in Judo and other wrestling/grappling arts. I didn't use them until highschool because I had dental braces. More important than a mouth guard or groin protector is headgear or scrum cap because a person is more likely to damage ears than mouth or groin.
So hold up a minute. You mean to tell me Helio Gracie just stole old school judo ????
Thank you for this video, Chadi. I've been learning the arm bar in premium training so much and it feels great learning submission since I'm currently learning BJJ and Combat Submission Wrestling in premium training and this coming Thursday the 17th, i'm gonna learn another level in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Combat Submission Wrestling, Chadi.
I took BJJ for a long time. Then one night I was at a bar and a guy got out of line with my gf. I told him to knock it off and he wanted to fight. So we went outside....I immediately got on my knees out of force of habit. He kicked me in the face and that's the last thing I remember. Seriously BJJ has real problem with starting on the feet
@@joereidy5732 that's why I'm mainly a striker in my class because my class teaches other arts in premium training. In regular class such as basic, intermediate and advance level, it's Jeet Kune Do/Jun Fan Kickboxing. In premium training, you get to learn other arts for a month like for example when I first officially joined premium training in the month of August, I was learning Savate. Then the next month in September, which I tested for a purple belt, I was learning double stick closed chamber which is Kali and then October I was learning Silat by fighting from the ground and doing takedowns from the ground in Silat. Then November I was learning Kali again which was stick and dagger, then December it was Panantukan and last month was single stick. When I go back to class this Tuesday, I'm gonna find out what I'm going to be learning in March. I'm also testing for a green belt in MMA on the 15th of March and I'm supposed to have an amateur debut on the 19th.
@@bryanreyes7382 Good move friend. BJJ is actually quite limited
@@joereidy5732 yep. That's why I'm mainly striker due to JKD, Savate, Kali and Silat. So far I haven't learned Wing Chun, Capoeira and Muay Thai yet. And yes my class teaches Muay Thai, Wing Chun and Capoeira. I'm currently trying to find an MMA coach that's connected to the amateur promotion here in Melbourne, Florida called MoMuscle Fighting Championship and the thing is my class doesn't have MMA coaches and I'm suppose to debut on March 19 and they already picked out an opponent for me
Just found your channel, great stuff! Never seen that old judo footage, thanks for showing! I'm subbing!
You're so right about how people want practical self defense and confidence, not tournament style throwing techniques and impractical rules. The over emphasis today on grips and on avoiding leg grabs is just ridiculous. Olympic style practice is ruining the customer base for Judo. You'd think Judo promoters worldwide would have realized by now, after the Gracies repackaged Judo as BJJ, that Judo is dying out and BJJ and submission fighting is growing and spreading.
I found a lot of these videos a few months back, it's great that your putting a spot light on them!
It's fascinating watching how randori was done back then and especially ground work.
There's a video from the 30s, that I think you showed a bit of but I'm not sure, of a dojo in New York that has a lot of randori between students. The pathe videos are cool but pretty short clips, this NY dojo ad(?) has some longer clips.
awesome work Chadi! you are starting to be a hugely important to a lot of us nerdier martial artists I think :)
Judo has been overoptimized since it became an olympic sport. It lost its base purpose.
My favourite era ( though I was not born then) would be the late 1940s to mid 50s when my father used to attend the London Budokwai. His stories of Koizumi and Trevor Leggett’s ‘special class inspired me to take up judo too. Though his era seemed to have a special magic.
Thank you again. Unfortunately, the covid pandemic and your accurate assessment of current judo means the future is limited for this style of sport and martial art. Please continue your interesting commentary. We look forward to all of them.
I had a modest grappling background; had trained BJJ and catch wrestling for a couple years with Erik Paulson. Over the next three decades I trained BJJ once in awhwile for a few weeks. Finally joined a Judo Dojo. Got smashed trying to do throws with them,but on the ground I was killing Black belts. The complaint I got most often was that what I was doing was against the rules. I stopped training there. Any art that limits itself in such a way is problematic. The throws however are definitely worth learning.
In Daito ryu, these techniques against several attackers are designed only for Embu, not for combat. And none of the masters has ever taught that these techniques of simultaneous neutralization of attackers are really applicable in combat. Only for advertising.
The sacrifice throw at 1:46 would be fraught with potential self-injury on the street for the older red belt. He’d break his own hip. Assuming they were even used, sacrifice throws might work in old Japan because they were landing on dirt or grass or they were wearing armor not street clothes.
In my club we never trained for self defense but a woman who trained there became a border guard in Israel and some guy screamed AllaAkhbar and tried to stab her. She used Judo and neutralized him. She said it was automatic.
A high level competetive throw is so fast and so precise it will against most opponents.
The older judo matches basically resemble BJJ more than contemporary Judo.
I think multiple attacks in Martial arts in general has been lost dues to sport competition.
in the famous words of David Lee Roth "he's just a Jigaro"
I totally agree with your video. Thanks!
Great video as usual Chadi 👍
Unfortunately, sport based martial arts are not the best for self defense. You need a system that also deals with,
•Multiple attackers
•Defending against weapons
•If legal in your country, learn how to use weapons
•Scenario training
•De-escalation skills
•Awareness training
•The pre and post fight
•Have some understanding about your country's self defense law, just incase you have to justify your actions in court,
There's a lot more to self defense than simply sparring.
I love judo and if you mix it with boxing or karate you’re all set man . But against multiple attackers it’s vulnerable.
A Judo Black Belt from Cuba got attacked at a baseball game by 2 Brothers and their friend over a trivial dispute. He threw them in sequence as they attacked him with I believe O Goshi multiple times each. Judo is very applicable to multiple attackers if you own your moves/throws
I am amazed at the training that that era and previous ones. So scientific. Great
That’s fantastic at about the 5:00 mark when he chucks one guy at the other 😂
Indeed
Judo is great for timing and balance on your feet. It is the only grappling martial art that focuses on this issue. It makes you a better fighter and should be taught as foundation before any other grappling martial art. However, for self-defense, judo taught today is not evolve enough, it has devolved itself in name of rules, and because of that I would not recommend it as self-defense. However, if you truly want to be a great fighter, you should learn judo. Being a fighter and knowing self-defense are two different things. And that is the quagmire of judo.
Found you through Rokas’ MA Journey- subbed!
🙇🏻♂️
I absolutely agree with your position on Judo's current state. We need to bring it back to the center.
Merci bcp mon ami, je adore votre videos ❤️🥋
Great video and commentary.
Yes, there are no rules in a street fight!
His 1912(?) multiple attack demonstration is very very similar to “original” Hapkido as taught private by the founder Young Sol Choi, who was teaching a modified form of akijujitsu with additional punches and low kicks to set up the hold or throw. Very similar, at least based upon Hapkido as originally taught by Young Sol Choi’s direct and private student Dr. Jung Hwan Park 9th Dan in NY and Florida in the 1970’s. It is obvious that training to the level demonstrated must have been very very similar.
IN THE MID 70S, I WAS STATIONED AT MINOT AFB, ND. WHEN YOU ARE A OLYMPIC QUALITY PLAYER, YOU GET WAIVERS LIKE WEIGHT WAIVERS. OUR NCIOC OF THE GYM WAS OLYMPIC WORLD QUALIFIED JUDOKA, HE MUST HAVE WEIGHED OVER 350LBS!!
I had a question for you have you ever thought about doing a video where someone analyzed both Brazilian jiu-jitsu and capoeira? Because I've always thought if you use a combination of both it is an extremely effective way of combat.
I only ask because there is a scene in Undisputed 3 where Lateef Crowder used striking and kicks but he lost by a grappling submission I feel like he would have won the match if he actually knew Brazilian jiu-jitsu... and yes I know it was a film but can you imagine the level of skill with capoeira and BJJ?
Got love old timey news reels.
Love these videos!
Great video my friend. For sure for the reason of self defense.
Thanks for the History lesson It's great to see u demonstrate how JUdo has evolved It would be great if the old self defense methods Were taught again Maybe because of your showing the history Maybe it will make a come back
Technique
Speed
This is fantastic
3:08 That wasn't a de la riva hook. It looked like he was trying to do a scissor sweep
In a lot of ways I think people were just a lot tougher back then than they are now🤷♂️
BRAVO!!!☀☀☀
What county are you from Chadi?
Aki-jujitsu came before Judo. Now, that being said, both Judo and Aki-jujitsu have been watered down in modern times. Daito ryu is very aggressive if applied as it was intended. Judo is a modern interpretation of Kano’s family jujitsu.
Standard American folk style wrestling is all about hand fighting to set up a takedown or an escape or switch (reversal) or to effect a tilt or cradle or some other turning maneuver from top position for back points or fall. But obviously wrestlers can’t grab the singlet uniform.
You have to check out Valente Brothers jiu jitsu
Do you have any schools in the DMV area.
@0:33 does anyone know what this is called & if it's practical in a modern BJJ setting?
Respect.
"...For the more widely known term, "jiu-jitsu"" This explains a lot and is commonly ignored by modern judoka when criticizing "Gracie jiu-jitsu".
What's your take on doing multiple attackers drills like what aikido has in their "randori" and jiyu waza?
We sort of do this already with the throwing drill where you have tori in the center and runs to either end of a line to throw uke then goes to the other uke.
Do you have the original clip at 4:59 anywhere
Chadi i would love to teach you some of my understanding of body, mind and soul especially different training methods to train the 3 basic layers (body, mind, spirit) more specific. Btw Judo was one of my fist Arts ^^
I think soon I'm at the point to be able to formulate my own way ; )
I think aikido and judo can be support each other. Because some it still have weakness.
I want a short sleeve gi..man that looks good, for hot summer training.
Chadi, your view of martial arts is always refreshing, and the videos are very instructive, but I am not sure if I can agree with you when you call Olympic Judo an evolution, yes is different, but far from evolution, IJF is destroying Judo to attend demands from the International Olympic Committee and to promote its competition agenda. As you well put at the end of the video Judo is much more than Olympic Judo can offer.
A jack reacher study would be good... comparing his books to movies ... he's a Judoka
Chadi, go to Danzan Ryu Ju jitsu
You should do a video on judo throws in Star Trek original series or other films
Chadi you're starting to get pilled against stupid rules that destroyed judo out in place by organisations like the FFJDA or IJF.... It's nice to see 🤣. They don't do judo they do some form of wrestling. There are many other federations that don't practice this fake form of Judo including one in France which Hirano (who the FFJDA at the time forced to leave for Belgium by pressuring a minister to revoke his visa) and kawashi had a big influence on, that still exists today has a few thousands members. There is a lot of interests and a lot of money in organisations like the FFJDA and the IJF.
Aiki jujutsu and judo early 20th century are very similar
Does anyone teach old school judo any more?? Im here in southern California
The song is driving me insane
What's the name
4:58 Geez, can you imagine some thugs who don't know how to fall hitting a concrete sidewalk?
Namaste🙏
What is the best way to personally devolve modern Judo to self defence Judo, is there a source of lost techniques?
Judo is so rich... If I would go back in time I should have done more Judo ....
👍🏼👍🏼
Nombre de la canción
I agree they diluted it more making it into a sport versus keeping the self defense aspect of it! Don't grab my hand like this don't do that!
Does Gracie's or BJJ have anything for Multiple Attacks? Or is that for streets only?????
run....
@Paulo Jonatas only in some cases we can run not all cases
Unless there is a WIDE skill or size disparity, one person is not going to outfight multiple attackers, the best they can do is escape. Martial arts that behave that one person can beat many indulge in a dangerous fantasy that might get their followers seriously injured. Like Renzo Gracie says, the best technique against multiples is shoe-jitsu.
Y'all Listen I take this topic very serious this is not a joke because I been jumped before you can't take this shit is not a laughing matter 😠😠😠😠🤐😤😤😤 you some people don't live in the Hood where Pressure testing is everyday if it wasn't for kokikkai Ryu Aikido and some boxing I wouldn't be here today
Why do judokas not wear mouth guards
OSS!
Today Judo is shite. There are too many restrictions.
Hello Chady thank you for posting they are very interesting state. If you think what to release next then i will help you. New releases: Aikido vs Real Aikido style deference, Gojo Shioda vs Morihey Ueshiba masters Aikido, Samurai vs ninja ninjutsu vs aikijujutsu.
OSS!!!!!
4:53 Isn't the problem with Aikido that they tend to be thrown around and by that never develop the ability hold or keep the frame?!
To be honest i just imagine a Aikido guy trying to throw me as i just frame and smash his head to peaces. Do Aikido guys even train sometimes with real resistance?!
No, most schools don't use real resistance
I took a lot of Hapkido(Korean version), so maybe I can answer. The training partners do resist, because resistance is what makes the techniques work. It's more difficult if the guy is totally relaxed. What you see as allowing them to be thrown around is actually them going with the flow. Also, the demonstrations are indicators of how far the body mechanics and be manipulated. Kinda like a real life cop and robber car chase is different than a NASCAR demonstration for the crowd.
You never see them do demonstrations on outside people because of two reasons. First, you're always gonna have someone try to make a name for himself and that will put you in a position to accidently hurt him or let him go, and let him heckle you in front of everybody. It's a no win scenario. You cannot win either way.
And second, you have to do a demonstration on someone you know and trust because if he doesn't know how to roll with the technique, he can end up with a dislocated shoulder, broken wrist, and so on. I never demonstrate on anyone whose skill I do not know or trust.
Combat Aikido is different than what you see in demonstrations. Combat Aikido are all the joint locks that cops use on thugs.
I hope this helped.
Cf. Tomiki Aikido. We train multiple attacker randori regularly. See also Goshin Jutsu ua-cam.com/video/62PFm5hVArA/v-deo.html. Looks like Tomiki Aikido to me.
This is what prison rape looks like
This is lie, BJJ isn't Judo🤣🤣🤣
ᴘʀᴏᴍᴏsᴍ
The narrator has an annoying voice.
Sorry but japanese judokas only use basic grip an they are still the best, judo has become a fight for grig and there is not much real judo
What kind of "judokas" are you talking about ..?