I was a huge fan of Erica Gimpel as a singer and actress since her 1980's "Fame" (TV series) days where she took over top role from Irene Cara in the movie, so seeing her on B5 and performing was real treat. I was glued to the TV set with the same lost dumb joy expression on my face that Franklin had sitting in the audience. If I recall correctly, JMS wrote both songs and had Chris Franke come up with the tune rhythm to go with his words. I really enjoyed the whole plot angle of a wounded soul living her final days trying to bring joy to all the other lost souls down below.
One thing I noticed or thought watching this with Brent, in Medlab, I think once again its part of Franklin's growth. He's always made assumptions even before his addiction. He continued with assuming she took his card to get the drugs, he assumed she OD'd. Go ahead and buzz me, but it reminds me of Bashir on the first episode of DS9 being 'above' everyone and getting all giddy to practice 'frontier medicine' and making assumptions about the Bajorans. It took seasons really before Bashir kind of came down and became a normal person, I feel. Same with Franklin
This 18:13 is more about people who been diagnosed with incurable diseases & disorders that include chronic pain, how they are treated as drug-seeking by drs, and how pain medication is so expensive and inaccesible to people who need it (which precipitated the pain medicine boom [oxycontin], and chronic addiction) It was a problem then, it is still a problem now.
Ten years ago, I watched the whole series with my wife. It was the second time for me, first time for her. When we see the Vorlon ship arriving, she says, "oh, a new Kosh is arriving." I look at her funny. "Why do you say 'new Kosh' instead of 'new Vorlon ambassador'?" "No reason, she says. Why do you ask?" "You'll see"
I mean the weed analogy is certainly interesting, but I think the point about it being Franklin jumping to conclusion is probably closer to what its going for. Franklin projecting his own issues onto her, and Franklin being Franklin, one of his core traits since the beginning, thinking he knows whats right and acting righteously along those lines. I actually enjoy Franklin's arc during these episodes. On repeat viewings the layers to it become more apparent.
I feel like such a philistine every time Brent mentions laundry episodes because... I kinda do the laundry thing with the excellent episodes too (of shows I already watched, obviously) 😂. But I promise that when big moments come up I stop folding laundry or doing whatever house chore I was doing, at least to watch that moment/scene lol
We thought Walkabout was going to be part 2 of Avalon. "A late delivery from Down Under" with Mick Dundee mysteriously showing up on the station with his legendary knife and everyone wondering if it's really him or not.
Since Avalon starred Michael York, and Walkabout was clearly going to feature Jenny Agguter we could have had a Logan's Run connection. Alas, not Nic Roeg's Walkabout after all.
@@simongiles9749 I don't think we ought to start talking about Jenny Agutter's Walkabout and a shiny, killer Box . . . Played by Roscoe Lee-Brown IIRC.
The alliance defeating the shadows on their own for the first time... I would say that is better than a laundry episode :) I remember I was chearing the first time I saw that!
LOL! OMG! Your face during the song was hilarious! I've seen the series a dozen times and that's the face I make every time I suffer through this scene. (I think they wrote this song for the show. It's a shame. She should have picked a classic like Skylark or Someone to Watch Over Me or Love for Sale. Anything else)
Man, I like both songs. They are not mid 90s style, I think, rather they seem pretty timeless. Which is not an easy task for the writers. Anyway, a lot of stuff happened in the episode, I didn't even remember Kosh II arriving so soon.
I liked both songs as well. She has a great voice. And indeed those songs sound timeless, or rather, anyone could have made a song like this in the last 30 years, and it still seems reasonable. Especially since it's supposed to be a non-professional band and she's supposed to be a washed up professional singer. There will be one more bar music song in S4 that I also really like (if you know, you know). Christopher Franke did an amazing job with all the music of B5.
@@PetrosmanIf its the one I think you mean, it's kind if a PJ Harvey/Mark E Smith mash-up, and so is extremely 90s after that fashion but in a good way. One of my favourite B5 scenes.
Kosh. When lyta is in the corridor with kosh2 and he basically grabs her by the throat. The original Kosh I don't think would have ever done that to her.
On the second time I'm watching this episode through your reaction, I realized how funny Lyta saying she has a 'piece of Kosh' sounds. Like 'yo! cut me a piece! Vorlon with olives and pepperoni coming up lol I feel like Vorlons like it with crushed Shadow-black pepper sprinkled on top haha. Now I'm imagining a mental scene in my head. Kosh walks in to Morden's restaurant. Morden: What do you want? Kosh: Never ask that question! >leaves
Definitely not Jennifer from ds9 (buzz) lol, gonna take a major hit on that veteran Trek podcaster card on that one lmao. Also Brent...we don't all look alike Lol, just giving you crap, was definitely laugh worthy 😂😂
This was less about legalizing alt treatments like weed but a thing in the medical field were doctors will see a addict instead of someone in pain when they see a history of things like opioids and think people are faking real issues for the high rather than just being able to function as normal. Franklin was projecting his addiction to someone else who needed treatment not a lecture. Also this is the 90's so weed as therapeutic alt is not even on the radar anywhere but if it was made now it would probably be more suboxone treats pain and opioid addiction but is extremely regulated due to the addiction treatment which makes it hard for people who use it for pain without the high to get it and those that are pushing to receive it are seen as addicts.
My thoughts on the subject of Kosh was thst he pulled something a bit like Spock and Bones. Not a full on, "His Katra is in Sheridan", but not that far off that either.
The name Ulkesh is a mild spoiler. He was first named in a licensed novel which published after this episode aired but which JMS declared "fully canon".
@@davidblauyoutube It is no spoiler for the show, as the name is never mentioned. And even for the novels, it is no spoiling information that Kosh II is called Ulkesh.
@@NikiokoIt is a mild spoiler as it tells Jeff and Brent that he is never named on screen. Every time someone says, "This topic/character is expanded on in the novels," tells them they are unlikely to see that expanded upon in the episodes. A lot of the commenters here don't seem to rate the intelligence of Jeff and Brent. They are quite capable of putting the "cryptic" comments together and finding the underlying spoiler. That is why they ask us not to tell them about the story outside of what is in the episode. They'll probably appreciate the broader universe comments on the rewatch.
You guys are doing a great job so I’m sure however you approach it will be awesome, but in my opinion, after Walkabout, you should do both War Without End episodes in one week.
Brent didn't know how right he is when he refers to Franklin as Bashir especially when it comes to the ladies. He's achieving Kirk levels numbers of women across the earth alliance 😂
Maybe the Cailyn plot isn't about medical marijuana... maybe it's about US-style healthcare versus European-style healthcare? Here we have a patient (with a terminal condition no less!) who has to resort to crime to obtain the medicines that will help her manage her condition. There are certainly people who would argue that that shouldn't happen in a civilised society.
@@nbartlett6538 You'd take it over the most efficient, most advanced system in the world? Well, to each his own. Have fun waiting two years for that life-saving surgery. I wouldn't go back for anything.
At least American medical isn't telling patients to euthanize themselves over simple treatments. Yes life long problems are solved by shortening the life. So the government can save money. Great Canadian and European medical systems. I can hear it now "but it's freeeee". Until you look at the tax rate. Then not so "free". Socialised anything is great. Until you run out of other people's money to spend. Steal from the ones you can. To give to the ones that want it. Government policy worldwide.
@@kelaarin Not to mention, that many people with a really serious condition and lots of money move to murica for the quality of health care. Unless they need a new heart, and aren't picky about how many people die for them to get one that works. Then they would go to china, where if you pay enough, doctors will keep cutting out hearts from living people, until they get one that your body won't reject.
Now, see, I thought youd HATE this episode because half of it was focused on Franklin , but i had kinda forgotten the other half is actually pretty good . Im not a fan of the songs either, but i like Erica Gimpel as an actress. I was REALLY into the tv series Fame in the 80s ( before your time , so not surprised if you have not heard of it ) and she played coco in the series. I like her acting and she has a good voice....just not a fan of these songs . 😊
Her name is Erica Gimpel and if memory serves she's put out at least one or two albums. I've never been able to find a clean copy of this particular song though.
@@ryhanon7 there are clean versions of both songs on the Christopher Franke individual episode soundtrack for Walkabout. I don’t seem to be able to post links here but if you Google “Christopher Franke Walkabout” you’ll find it.
She was the guest star from a Worldwide Hit TV show about the top students (mostly singers. And a Cellist?) at the New York City High School for the Performing Arts, of course they're going to get her to sing a couple of songs in B5!
It's a song that won't be written for 200 years. Whereas humans in Trek produced no new culture after WW3 and just sponged off all the other civilisations for new experiences like the Centauri do, in B5 there was art and music and religion and literature that happened after the 1990s. 😅 It's why the Centauri contacted humans in the first place: we had all the new stuff they craved and couldn't create themselves anymore.
This episode is about an Americanized society. In a European society, your health insurance would pay for your meds. Such a situation could never exist. But in the US, each year, many people die because they can't pay for their medicines.
No in a European society the death council would decide your meds are too expensive to keep giving them to you and prescribe you a suicide drug. There are problems with the American system... namely the government regulations and web of laws that result in constant lawsuits and stifle competition which would otherwise allow for cheap healthcare. But giving government control over your health is never a good idea.
And just to add, that is definitely not a spoiler since it's never mentioned in the series, and has no effect on anything whatsoever. I watched B5 first time around, and only heard the name Ulkesh recently (Lorerunner's ruminations).
IMHO WWE 1&2 give Dr. Franklin an appreciable time to complete his Walkabout. I understand that JMS pushed WWE so the two parter wouldn't have a month between halves but I prefer it in the broadcast order.
In response to various speculations and conclusions you've made here... Ha Ha Nope. I wonder if some will change during the discussion for the main show.
To me this episode was a little downer, maybe bacause i se it in order, well Jeff and Brent need to tight their belts because in the next 2 weeks we going for a ride.
@@hornorsilk2901 If Brent & Jeff didn't like the songs in this episode I don't see them liking Neroon's Minbari-Techno War songs that I seem to remember featuring heavily in the next few episodes! 😲
Not even your review of Late Delivery of Avalon disappointed me as much as your take on this episode's music. Disappointed, I say. Like, "oh, child. There's so much for you to learn"-disappointed. I look at the locale like it's a "retro"-bar, which is why the music might seem more similar to music today, so I'm okay with that aspect. But Erica Gimpel was amazing and fantastic. I was very upset that Tubi wouldn't let me watch the credits and finish the last song. Don't worry, Jeff will let you know on Monday. :-P I have faith in Jeff.
Everyone will react however they will react. I treat it as an excuse for Franklin to examine his beliefs on addiction and move forward. Is it cringworthy? Sure.
The Vorlon Ambassador is called AlKash, the idea being the enlighted beings all being the same mind. Knowing whats going to happen next, youre in for a ride.
The A plot was weak and the music felt dated even in 1996, but the B plot is good as well as important to the war effort. One reason I prefer the aired order is that it took 3 weeks before we got The Search for Kosh aspect of the story.
@@robertdendooven7258 Yeah, the 90’s swing craze, as evidenced by bands like the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies. And let’s not forget the great ZIMA revival of 2258.
@@sdfried4877 LOL! ZIMA. Somebody trying to sell that old time drink that for some unknown reason fell out of favor to Humans for a bit of time. Spoilers (not really): Have you seen any of the JMS interviews from San Diego CC for The Road Home? I have avoided the one with spoilers, but it makes me want the next few weeks to go by faster.
@@robertdendooven7258 I saw a couple interviews where he said all the same things twice and there were no surprises. I’m hoping there are some goodies he’s not telling us about.
This is pretty much a palate cleanser episode with the plot moving forward a little bit. I enjoy the episode, and I love the actress's singing. P.S. for all intents and purposes the fandom calls the 2nd Kosh "Ulkesh", cause he said "we are all Kosh" or "we are Ulkesh" think of it as you want. If you have a different name for him, go for it, but I think Kosh 2.0 Electric Boogaloo is a bit of a mouthful.
@@Henrik_Holst hm, didn't know that. I thought that since "we are all Kosh" and Ulkesh sound similar, the fandom went with that. But makes sense. In the show everyone refers to him as he, or him or the Vorlon. Nobody calls him Kosh or Ulkesh. But it makes sense for a book to give him this name.
@Henrik_Holst ah, I read that book, but didn't catch that. Interesting. Good book though. More backstory about Marcus and we get info on what happened to Catherine Sakai.
I suspect it's not about the song, nor the singer, but the way the whole thing just temporarily grinds the episode to a stop - feels like going to a commercial (or shadow ship caught by a telepath). You don't need to play out the entire song to get the point across that Franklin likes what he sees and the singer takes notice. Sign of the times though. Shows used to do this all the time (and occasionally still do) to publicise professional singers. Get a famous band in for an episode, and let them take centre stage to play out a full song in the middle of the show, usually with a couple of the show characters meeting up to watch them, and maybe they might casually pass across some important plot information during an interlude in the performance. Some shows like "Charmed" would even incorporate a performance space into the standard set specifically to accommodate it.
Yes, not a banger of an episode; the best part is the Sheridan plot, with a few things going on to discuss there. Franklin's part has its value, but just not as gripping
@@Nikioko it's a palate cleanser. It's very soft, the main "important" plot is Sheridan and Lyta taking out 2 shadow vessels, but it's just an action sequence, which takes up most of that time. And I kinda hate that they skipped the double parter, because we see Ulkesh there for 1 second. But from now on there will only be 1 weak episode, everything else is just straight up bangers, so at least we can look forward to good reactions from Brent and good discussions.
1. You need to stop looking into hidden meanings behind episode titles. Back when this was broadcast, the first we saw of the titles was usually when they flashed up on screen after the intro credits. You’re setting yourself up for disappointment and then blaming the episode for it. 2. This episode is from 1996. Mainstream musical tastes have changed a lot since then.
This has already been discussed in the Interludes and Examinations show comment section. Walkabout was originally slated to be aired before WWE1 and WWE2. But, PTEN was going to have a 4-month break between episodes 17 and 18. So JMS put WWE 1 & 2 as eps 16 & 17 so that there would not be that long of a wait between parts 1 and 2 of the two-part WWE. Walkabout then became the 18th episode to air in season 3.
@@zarabada6125There are at least two, and while they may be easy to miss, neither is minor. (Can't say what they are here without spoilers). Hopefully, when they do B5 For The Second Time, they do these episodes in the correct order...
@@NathanielMillerI know what the errors are; I am very familiar with all 3 episodes. I say "minor," in the context that they don't force you to say, "This ruins everything. I can't even watch the episode now." Instead, they are along the lines of, "Oh. that was odd, perhaps I should have watched this episode first?" Yes, a fanatical purist will demand the episodes are watched in broadcast order. However, most viewers will note the small oddities and move on.
@@ogami7661 Sometimes individual stations would do that. Mine didn’t. Even in my iTunes as well as an old book which lists the B5 episodes in order both mention WWE pts 1&2 as episodes 16 & 17 and Walkabout as 18. Just FYI. No spoilers, but I recommend watching WWE 1&2 back to back if you can. It totally rocks. 👍
Back in Season 2, many people commented that "The Long Dark" was a character assassination of Franklin due to his creepy relationship with a patient. They said at the time that he never displayed similar behaviour again. This episode is the answer to that. Just as he became obsessed with the female patient the moment he saw her, he becomes fixated on the singer here, staring "lasers" into her. Now, many people will say, "This time she isn't his patient," but many of the same behaviours are on display. Even besides these two episodes, he is often shown as the human character with the "healthiest" appetite for "social interaction" (I say "human" as I think S1 G'Kar has him beat on that front). Do I think it is a part of his character that is worth fixating on? Not really. Do I think the defence of "The Long Dark" as a solitary instance of his behaviour holds up? No.
Heaven help a man actually finding a woman attractive. Gee, gosh! Gotta love these repressed modern times we live in. And actually what people always seem to conveniently forget when they trash Long Dark is there is a moment when Franklin clearly expresses it isn't professional to get close to her at that time. Also her attraction to him is never mentioned either - its all one-sided on Franklin. I have my theories why out of all the cast Franklin is always picked on and if I'm right that's much more disturbing.
@@tjtenser7828 He was very interested in an attractive singer, pretty much like any guy in a bar. What’s less believable is that she initiated the entire encounter without much work on Franklin’s part.
@@sdfried4877 Richard Biggs was an attractive man. I got to see him in person once. If you're a singer that doesn't have long to live and you see some hot guy that seems fascinated by you on stage, why WOULDN'T you go for it??
This should have been a great episode, but it's not. I love the actor for Franklin but not the character. Franklin is a good doctor but a very boring character and this episode highlights his flaws. And it succeeds by boring us to death. The shadow war becomes the B plot here and it comes across as boring too. There are many reactor theories that would make this episode more interesting, but unfortunately it's a Franklin episode where he is being his boring self. At least up to this point. Can't wait for the next
I was a huge fan of Erica Gimpel as a singer and actress since her 1980's "Fame" (TV series) days where she took over top role from Irene Cara in the movie, so seeing her on B5 and performing was real treat. I was glued to the TV set with the same lost dumb joy expression on my face that Franklin had sitting in the audience. If I recall correctly, JMS wrote both songs and had Chris Franke come up with the tune rhythm to go with his words. I really enjoyed the whole plot angle of a wounded soul living her final days trying to bring joy to all the other lost souls down below.
One thing I noticed or thought watching this with Brent, in Medlab, I think once again its part of Franklin's growth. He's always made assumptions even before his addiction. He continued with assuming she took his card to get the drugs, he assumed she OD'd. Go ahead and buzz me, but it reminds me of Bashir on the first episode of DS9 being 'above' everyone and getting all giddy to practice 'frontier medicine' and making assumptions about the Bajorans. It took seasons really before Bashir kind of came down and became a normal person, I feel. Same with Franklin
JMS wrote the songs, and the singer is Coco from Fame TV show. (Erica Gimpel)
ah, Kosh's last great line:
" AND SO IT BEGINS..."
Is somewhat amusing, how many 'and so it begins...' moments are in this show ;P
This 18:13 is more about people who been diagnosed with incurable diseases & disorders that include chronic pain, how they are treated as drug-seeking by drs, and how pain medication is so expensive and inaccesible to people who need it (which precipitated the pain medicine boom [oxycontin], and chronic addiction) It was a problem then, it is still a problem now.
Ten years ago, I watched the whole series with my wife. It was the second time for me, first time for her. When we see the Vorlon ship arriving, she says, "oh, a new Kosh is arriving."
I look at her funny. "Why do you say 'new Kosh' instead of 'new Vorlon ambassador'?"
"No reason, she says. Why do you ask?"
"You'll see"
I mean the weed analogy is certainly interesting, but I think the point about it being Franklin jumping to conclusion is probably closer to what its going for. Franklin projecting his own issues onto her, and Franklin being Franklin, one of his core traits since the beginning, thinking he knows whats right and acting righteously along those lines.
I actually enjoy Franklin's arc during these episodes. On repeat viewings the layers to it become more apparent.
I was so sure Brent was going to hate this episode... This was a good surprise.
Me too.
Maybe all the hate got sucked up by the song so he had nothing left.
I had that suspicion when I looked at the thumbnail. ;)
@@kevindean0000 Oh god, don't mention the song. I'd almost succesfully blocked it from my brain!
I feel like such a philistine every time Brent mentions laundry episodes because... I kinda do the laundry thing with the excellent episodes too (of shows I already watched, obviously) 😂. But I promise that when big moments come up I stop folding laundry or doing whatever house chore I was doing, at least to watch that moment/scene lol
We thought Walkabout was going to be part 2 of Avalon. "A late delivery from Down Under" with Mick Dundee mysteriously showing up on the station with his legendary knife and everyone wondering if it's really him or not.
Since Avalon starred Michael York, and Walkabout was clearly going to feature Jenny Agguter we could have had a Logan's Run connection.
Alas, not Nic Roeg's Walkabout after all.
Deep cut there with Jenny Aggutter, old timer. @@simongiles9749
@@simongiles9749 I don't think we ought to start talking about Jenny Agutter's Walkabout and a shiny, killer Box . . . Played by Roscoe Lee-Brown IIRC.
The alliance defeating the shadows on their own for the first time... I would say that is better than a laundry episode :) I remember I was chearing the first time I saw that!
The actress Erica Gimpel who played the singer co-wrote the main song in this episode. She also sang both songs. She is a very talented person.
LOL! OMG! Your face during the song was hilarious! I've seen the series a dozen times and that's the face I make every time I suffer through this scene.
(I think they wrote this song for the show. It's a shame. She should have picked a classic like Skylark or Someone to Watch Over Me or Love for Sale. Anything else)
Man, I like both songs. They are not mid 90s style, I think, rather they seem pretty timeless. Which is not an easy task for the writers.
Anyway, a lot of stuff happened in the episode, I didn't even remember Kosh II arriving so soon.
I liked both songs as well. She has a great voice. And indeed those songs sound timeless, or rather, anyone could have made a song like this in the last 30 years, and it still seems reasonable. Especially since it's supposed to be a non-professional band and she's supposed to be a washed up professional singer. There will be one more bar music song in S4 that I also really like (if you know, you know). Christopher Franke did an amazing job with all the music of B5.
I agree and it must be noted JMS wrote the lyrics to both songs. Coco from Fame the TV series portrays the singer Franklin likes a lot.
@@PetrosmanIf its the one I think you mean, it's kind if a PJ Harvey/Mark E Smith mash-up, and so is extremely 90s after that fashion but in a good way. One of my favourite B5 scenes.
That’s because he didn’t. He arrived a few episodes later.
@@simongiles9749 No, the song very similar to PJ Harvey’s “Hardly Wait” in the bar is from late Season 4.
I always thought the song was really good, for a song that was simply invented for a TV episode in the 90s
Kosh. When lyta is in the corridor with kosh2 and he basically grabs her by the throat. The original Kosh I don't think would have ever done that to her.
On the second time I'm watching this episode through your reaction, I realized how funny Lyta saying she has a 'piece of Kosh' sounds. Like 'yo! cut me a piece!
Vorlon with olives and pepperoni coming up lol
I feel like Vorlons like it with crushed Shadow-black pepper sprinkled on top haha.
Now I'm imagining a mental scene in my head. Kosh walks in to Morden's restaurant.
Morden: What do you want?
Kosh: Never ask that question!
>leaves
Lyta at 12:12 is the moment you realize its' monday, and next week is coming
The song oh my god "What is this??" LOL!!
I like how the Shadow ships "bleed" when they die.
Londo makes everything better.
I think there might be a few million Narns who would disagree with you!
@@timamherst-clark2699 Can't respond...
Hahaha that song was great Brent wtf (also, no - not Jennifer. The actress/singer is Erica Gimpel).
@@ogami7661 The song at the end of the episode sounded better to me.
Definitely not Jennifer from ds9 (buzz) lol, gonna take a major hit on that veteran Trek podcaster card on that one lmao. Also Brent...we don't all look alike Lol, just giving you crap, was definitely laugh worthy 😂😂
@@robertdendooven7258 yeah, the 2nd song is definitely better, which is probably why they continued it in the credits.
The words are meaningful, and sung with heart by a great voice and experienced performer. I wouldn't have minded an extended cut extra on the Blu-Ray!
Draal: I rather enjoyed the song.
Delenn: Don’t tell him.
Draal: You sure?
Delenn: Trust me.
Kosh 2 electric boogaloo.... funny on so many levels ROFLMAO!
Spoilers:
eventually, Kosh 2 does indeed get his electric boogaloo!
17:39 they do if your State’s AG threatens legal action if they don’t!
This was less about legalizing alt treatments like weed but a thing in the medical field were doctors will see a addict instead of someone in pain when they see a history of things like opioids and think people are faking real issues for the high rather than just being able to function as normal. Franklin was projecting his addiction to someone else who needed treatment not a lecture. Also this is the 90's so weed as therapeutic alt is not even on the radar anywhere but if it was made now it would probably be more suboxone treats pain and opioid addiction but is extremely regulated due to the addiction treatment which makes it hard for people who use it for pain without the high to get it and those that are pushing to receive it are seen as addicts.
My thoughts on the subject of Kosh was thst he pulled something a bit like Spock and Bones. Not a full on, "His Katra is in Sheridan", but not that far off that either.
yep, he was in Sheridans mind when he died so my take is that he left some trace of his mind behind
@@Henrik_Holst They're going to have to BUZZ a lot on Monday, in reference to Spock/McCoy and the Katra!!! Lol
@@TheButtonLady yeah 3 ain't gonna cut it 🙂
Unless it's more like 'Spock's Brain' (Bzzzzt!) and Sheridan does actually have a bit of Kosh's brain? (Paging Doctor Hfuhruhurr!) 😉
Whats with the trippy pre-show screen , you been doin LSD again Brent .
Blame UA-cam. It is one of their choices for a countdown screen.
Yeah, I didn't get to pick this one.
New Kosh is named Ulkesh, but this is never said onscreen.
Just like Naranek is never mentioned on screen. But use these two names to distinguish between the two Koshs.
The name Ulkesh is a mild spoiler. He was first named in a licensed novel which published after this episode aired but which JMS declared "fully canon".
@@Nikioko"Naranek" is mentioned in And Now For A Word.
@@davidblauyoutube It is no spoiler for the show, as the name is never mentioned. And even for the novels, it is no spoiling information that Kosh II is called Ulkesh.
@@NikiokoIt is a mild spoiler as it tells Jeff and Brent that he is never named on screen.
Every time someone says, "This topic/character is expanded on in the novels," tells them they are unlikely to see that expanded upon in the episodes.
A lot of the commenters here don't seem to rate the intelligence of Jeff and Brent. They are quite capable of putting the "cryptic" comments together and finding the underlying spoiler.
That is why they ask us not to tell them about the story outside of what is in the episode. They'll probably appreciate the broader universe comments on the rewatch.
How far ahead could Kosh see?
"AND SO IT BEGINS",
You guys are doing a great job so I’m sure however you approach it will be awesome, but in my opinion, after Walkabout, you should do both War Without End episodes in one week.
Brent didn't know how right he is when he refers to Franklin as Bashir especially when it comes to the ladies. He's achieving Kirk levels numbers of women across the earth alliance 😂
JMS wrote the song. 😂
Maybe the Cailyn plot isn't about medical marijuana... maybe it's about US-style healthcare versus European-style healthcare? Here we have a patient (with a terminal condition no less!) who has to resort to crime to obtain the medicines that will help her manage her condition. There are certainly people who would argue that that shouldn't happen in a civilised society.
You have no first-hand experience with "European-style healthcare", do you?
It's NOT anything to brag about.
@@kelaarin Yeah I live in Europe. I wouldn't brag about it, but I'd take it any day over the US system.
@@nbartlett6538 You'd take it over the most efficient, most advanced system in the world? Well, to each his own. Have fun waiting two years for that life-saving surgery. I wouldn't go back for anything.
At least American medical isn't telling patients to euthanize themselves over simple treatments. Yes life long problems are solved by shortening the life. So the government can save money. Great Canadian and European medical systems. I can hear it now "but it's freeeee". Until you look at the tax rate. Then not so "free".
Socialised anything is great. Until you run out of other people's money to spend. Steal from the ones you can. To give to the ones that want it. Government policy worldwide.
@@kelaarin Not to mention, that many people with a really serious condition and lots of money move to murica for the quality of health care. Unless they need a new heart, and aren't picky about how many people die for them to get one that works. Then they would go to china, where if you pay enough, doctors will keep cutting out hearts from living people, until they get one that your body won't reject.
Now, see, I thought youd HATE this episode because half of it was focused on Franklin , but i had kinda forgotten the other half is actually pretty good . Im not a fan of the songs either, but i like Erica Gimpel as an actress. I was REALLY into the tv series Fame in the 80s ( before your time , so not surprised if you have not heard of it ) and she played coco in the series. I like her acting and she has a good voice....just not a fan of these songs . 😊
But better than the one from the Casino singer in the original BSG.
Wear that crown Brent!
Both Brent and Jeff get one for this episode
Point of interest the songs that the singer sang where written for the episode by JMS and Christopher Franke
i mean the music wasnt so bad was it and i thought the lady singer was quite delightful and vulnerable
Plus the songs she sing where written for the episode
Her name is Erica Gimpel and if memory serves she's put out at least one or two albums. I've never been able to find a clean copy of this particular song though.
@@ryhanon7 there are clean versions of both songs on the Christopher Franke individual episode soundtrack for Walkabout.
I don’t seem to be able to post links here but if you Google “Christopher Franke Walkabout” you’ll find it.
@@ryhanon7She was a bit of a tv staple at the time. She’s been in a lot of stuff that I can’t remember.
@@sdfried4877 Fame tv show.
Yeah, I always thought the singing went on too long too
She was the guest star from a Worldwide Hit TV show about the top students (mostly singers. And a Cellist?) at the New York City High School for the Performing Arts, of course they're going to get her to sing a couple of songs in B5!
It's a song that won't be written for 200 years.
Whereas humans in Trek produced no new culture after WW3 and just sponged off all the other civilisations for new experiences like the Centauri do, in B5 there was art and music and religion and literature that happened after the 1990s.
😅
It's why the Centauri contacted humans in the first place: we had all the new stuff they craved and couldn't create themselves anymore.
This episode is about an Americanized society. In a European society, your health insurance would pay for your meds. Such a situation could never exist. But in the US, each year, many people die because they can't pay for their medicines.
No in a European society the death council would decide your meds are too expensive to keep giving them to you and prescribe you a suicide drug.
There are problems with the American system... namely the government regulations and web of laws that result in constant lawsuits and stifle competition which would otherwise allow for cheap healthcare.
But giving government control over your health is never a good idea.
@@MoOrion i'd say that's an american misunderstanding (or agenda by some) of how it actually works
@@JamesC1981Well, considering some of the things we've been hearing from Canada......
@@JamesC1981One could also add that the US medical system was much better 30 years ago. These days, it’s absolutely insane.
@@sdfried4877 30 years ago, was there mandatory healthcare insurance for everybody and prices for medicines and medical services fixed by regulations?
After all those great questions I only have one thing to say 🤷♂️🤷♂️ 😏
Ah, the other Vorlon, or angry Kosh as i'm gonna call him!
Purple Kosh.
According to JMS (and B5 Wiki), Kosh-2's actual name is Ulkesh.
And just to add, that is definitely not a spoiler since it's never mentioned in the series, and has no effect on anything whatsoever. I watched B5 first time around, and only heard the name Ulkesh recently (Lorerunner's ruminations).
@@stephenhillier3522 I think it was only mentioned in the tie-in novels that JMS approved.
"We are All Kosh," and "We are Ulkesh" do sound similar!
Still, you are spoiling it now, saying that his name will not be mentioned on screen.
@@MarvinNoFun Boo hoo, snowflake. Cry us a river.
IMHO WWE 1&2 give Dr. Franklin an appreciable time to complete his Walkabout. I understand that JMS pushed WWE so the two parter wouldn't have a month between halves but I prefer it in the broadcast order.
Wait- the walkabout isn't over? I thought it was...
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime Not even close
At the end of the episode we saw Franklin continue "walking". But we're really getting spoilery if we continue discussing ....
@@idea2goThere’s only one good reason why the original order doesn’t work too well but we can’t really get into it just yet.
Unlike Q, I would never describe the Vorlons as "Playfull" 😁
Ha, good luck resisting the binge
In response to various speculations and conclusions you've made here... Ha Ha Nope.
I wonder if some will change during the discussion for the main show.
To me this episode was a little downer, maybe bacause i se it in order, well Jeff and Brent need to tight their belts because in the next 2 weeks we going for a ride.
maybe they will find the 2-parter the worst thing this side of nuclear war; let's not predetermine what they will think of it for them
@@hornorsilk2901 If Brent & Jeff didn't like the songs in this episode I don't see them liking Neroon's Minbari-Techno War songs that I seem to remember featuring heavily in the next few episodes! 😲
@@timamherst-clark2699 well, it depends upon their reaction to Klingon opera; if they thought it was a bit wimpy, they might like what is to come
@@hornorsilk2901 Yes, but which is worse, Klingon Opera or Narn Opera? There's only one way to find out . . . FIGHT! (Thanks, Harry.)
Not even your review of Late Delivery of Avalon disappointed me as much as your take on this episode's music. Disappointed, I say. Like, "oh, child. There's so much for you to learn"-disappointed. I look at the locale like it's a "retro"-bar, which is why the music might seem more similar to music today, so I'm okay with that aspect. But Erica Gimpel was amazing and fantastic. I was very upset that Tubi wouldn't let me watch the credits and finish the last song.
Don't worry, Jeff will let you know on Monday. :-P I have faith in Jeff.
@@ogami7661 sigh. Well, his preference is prog, so not his style.
I may be the only B5 fan who absolutely hates the Franklin love interest subplot. The girl, the song, I hate them both.
only? no -- imo, it's ok for 5 mins, but that's it
Everyone will react however they will react. I treat it as an excuse for Franklin to examine his beliefs on addiction and move forward. Is it cringworthy? Sure.
@@loka7783 cringeworthy and eternal! That segment goes on and on and on...
I'm amazed how many people here like it. That face Brent had during the first song. That's me watching this episode too.
JMS has questionable music tastes at best. Squirrel Nut Zippers was his favorite band at one point in the nineties, when this show was filmed.
I liked their song Hell, but that was a quirky novelty at best, and not even very well produced.
Good ups.
As a dtar trek fan ....all I will say is KATRA.
The Vorlon Ambassador is called AlKash, the idea being the enlighted beings all being the same mind.
Knowing whats going to happen next, youre in for a ride.
65😊
65!
You disappointed me, Brent. Oh not with your reaction, it is good. I was looking forward to seeing your reaction to the two parter.
Coming soon!
The A plot was weak and the music felt dated even in 1996, but the B plot is good as well as important to the war effort.
One reason I prefer the aired order is that it took 3 weeks before we got The Search for Kosh aspect of the story.
I remember there was a bit of a pop-jazz revival in the mid 90's that didn't last that long. So why not a Jazz revival in the 23rd Century?
@@robertdendooven7258 Yeah, the 90’s swing craze, as evidenced by bands like the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies.
And let’s not forget the great ZIMA revival of 2258.
@@sdfried4877 LOL! ZIMA. Somebody trying to sell that old time drink that for some unknown reason fell out of favor to Humans for a bit of time.
Spoilers (not really):
Have you seen any of the JMS interviews from San Diego CC for The Road Home? I have avoided the one with spoilers, but it makes me want the next few weeks to go by faster.
@@robertdendooven7258 I saw a couple interviews where he said all the same things twice and there were no surprises. I’m hoping there are some goodies he’s not telling us about.
This is pretty much a palate cleanser episode with the plot moving forward a little bit. I enjoy the episode, and I love the actress's singing.
P.S. for all intents and purposes the fandom calls the 2nd Kosh "Ulkesh", cause he said "we are all Kosh" or "we are Ulkesh" think of it as you want. If you have a different name for him, go for it, but I think Kosh 2.0 Electric Boogaloo is a bit of a mouthful.
I call him evil kosh.
the fandom calls him Ulkesh due to him being named that in one of the novels
@@Henrik_Holst hm, didn't know that. I thought that since "we are all Kosh" and Ulkesh sound similar, the fandom went with that. But makes sense. In the show everyone refers to him as he, or him or the Vorlon. Nobody calls him Kosh or Ulkesh. But it makes sense for a book to give him this name.
@@Petrosman yeah I can see the logic, the book btw is To Dream in the City of Sorrows
@Henrik_Holst ah, I read that book, but didn't catch that. Interesting. Good book though. More backstory about Marcus and we get info on what happened to Catherine Sakai.
Ten TWENTY ONE? Don't like round numbers? 🐵
That P rating.
Ok this week we learn Brent has poor taste in music.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't know if you are serious or not. However the music in this episode sucks.
Meh everyone's taste is different. That and the Constitution guarantees everyone the right to be wrong. So take comfort in that.
I suspect it's not about the song, nor the singer, but the way the whole thing just temporarily grinds the episode to a stop - feels like going to a commercial (or shadow ship caught by a telepath). You don't need to play out the entire song to get the point across that Franklin likes what he sees and the singer takes notice.
Sign of the times though. Shows used to do this all the time (and occasionally still do) to publicise professional singers. Get a famous band in for an episode, and let them take centre stage to play out a full song in the middle of the show, usually with a couple of the show characters meeting up to watch them, and maybe they might casually pass across some important plot information during an interlude in the performance. Some shows like "Charmed" would even incorporate a performance space into the standard set specifically to accommodate it.
No he doesn't. The song is meh. I mean, musically it's kinda okay, but the lyrics is so generic. And the whole scene is just too darn long.
Yes, not a banger of an episode; the best part is the Sheridan plot, with a few things going on to discuss there. Franklin's part has its value, but just not as gripping
Neither a banger nor a bummer. Quite a mediocre episode.
@@Nikioko it's a palate cleanser. It's very soft, the main "important" plot is Sheridan and Lyta taking out 2 shadow vessels, but it's just an action sequence, which takes up most of that time. And I kinda hate that they skipped the double parter, because we see Ulkesh there for 1 second. But from now on there will only be 1 weak episode, everything else is just straight up bangers, so at least we can look forward to good reactions from Brent and good discussions.
I think it was a mistake to watch the episodes out of order.
Any Club 65 around?
65!
Club 65 forever!
65!
"We are all Club 65."
I'm UlClub65
👀
a transition episode ...
some episodes are transitions episodes, some are revelation episodes ...
what? me quoting jequan? don't be silly
G'Quan.
1. You need to stop looking into hidden meanings behind episode titles. Back when this was broadcast, the first we saw of the titles was usually when they flashed up on screen after the intro credits. You’re setting yourself up for disappointment and then blaming the episode for it.
2. This episode is from 1996. Mainstream musical tastes have changed a lot since then.
I've always preferred "Kosh Vader" for this one.
16 is supposed to be war without end, walkabout was 18
This has already been discussed in the Interludes and Examinations show comment section. Walkabout was originally slated to be aired before WWE1 and WWE2. But, PTEN was going to have a 4-month break between episodes 17 and 18. So JMS put WWE 1 & 2 as eps 16 & 17 so that there would not be that long of a wait between parts 1 and 2 of the two-part WWE. Walkabout then became the 18th episode to air in season 3.
@@robertdendooven7258And there's absolutely no reason i know of to change the order back..
@@Markus117dThere are a few minor chronological issues but they are minor.
@@zarabada6125There are at least two, and while they may be easy to miss, neither is minor. (Can't say what they are here without spoilers).
Hopefully, when they do B5 For The Second Time, they do these episodes in the correct order...
@@NathanielMillerI know what the errors are; I am very familiar with all 3 episodes.
I say "minor," in the context that they don't force you to say, "This ruins everything. I can't even watch the episode now."
Instead, they are along the lines of, "Oh. that was odd, perhaps I should have watched this episode first?"
Yes, a fanatical purist will demand the episodes are watched in broadcast order. However, most viewers will note the small oddities and move on.
I’m pretty sure legalising weed wasn’t on the radar in the 90s.
Er . . . I think it was probably on a LOT of people's radar in the 90s. Admittedly, most of them were probably too stoned to do much about it . . . 🤯
Not a fan of that musical genre, but the performance is tolerable-- in brevity...
...it was not brief, though.
When you get back in season order, I will come back and watch.
Wherever you’re watching B5, they’re broadcasting out of order. Episode 16 is War without Ebd.
They've already mentioned that previously.
@@ogami7661 Sometimes individual stations would do that. Mine didn’t. Even in my iTunes as well as an old book which lists the B5 episodes in order both mention WWE pts 1&2 as episodes 16 & 17 and Walkabout as 18. Just FYI. No spoilers, but I recommend watching WWE 1&2 back to back if you can. It totally rocks. 👍
I don't mind this order. It takes up where Kosh died, and continues that thought right away.
@@TheButtonLady It also picks up with Franklin straight away so it's a very smooth follow on from the previous one
@@ogami7661 The B5 expert is following the order recommended by JMS, at least in this instance. I hope that JMS is enough of an 'expert' for you...
Back in Season 2, many people commented that "The Long Dark" was a character assassination of Franklin due to his creepy relationship with a patient. They said at the time that he never displayed similar behaviour again.
This episode is the answer to that. Just as he became obsessed with the female patient the moment he saw her, he becomes fixated on the singer here, staring "lasers" into her. Now, many people will say, "This time she isn't his patient," but many of the same behaviours are on display.
Even besides these two episodes, he is often shown as the human character with the "healthiest" appetite for "social interaction" (I say "human" as I think S1 G'Kar has him beat on that front).
Do I think it is a part of his character that is worth fixating on? Not really.
Do I think the defence of "The Long Dark" as a solitary instance of his behaviour holds up? No.
Heaven help a man actually finding a woman attractive. Gee, gosh! Gotta love these repressed modern times we live in. And actually what people always seem to conveniently forget when they trash Long Dark is there is a moment when Franklin clearly expresses it isn't professional to get close to her at that time. Also her attraction to him is never mentioned either - its all one-sided on Franklin. I have my theories why out of all the cast Franklin is always picked on and if I'm right that's much more disturbing.
@@tjtenser7828 He was very interested in an attractive singer, pretty much like any guy in a bar. What’s less believable is that she initiated the entire encounter without much work on Franklin’s part.
@@sdfried4877 Richard Biggs was an attractive man. I got to see him in person once. If you're a singer that doesn't have long to live and you see some hot guy that seems fascinated by you on stage, why WOULDN'T you go for it??
@@TheMerovingienne Especially in down-below!
This should have been a great episode, but it's not. I love the actor for Franklin but not the character. Franklin is a good doctor but a very boring character and this episode highlights his flaws. And it succeeds by boring us to death. The shadow war becomes the B plot here and it comes across as boring too. There are many reactor theories that would make this episode more interesting, but unfortunately it's a Franklin episode where he is being his boring self. At least up to this point. Can't wait for the next