@AdaBlack-w7l i don't believe in the concept of white tbh. there are so many different cultures from people considered white and they're each vastly different from the other. It's honestly derogatory to call someone white. It takes away from the deep and intricate cultures of Europe.
@@PrairieSundogLmao. They died for a Trojan Horse ideology which emerged from the slums of Rome with the intention of destroying the European peoples & taking over the world. It’s younger and more aggressive mutation; Islam is here to finish us off.
Goth music Woman here , I have not washed my hair in days , I've been listening to the same darkwave cassette mix and switching it up to roxy music for some spice for 3 days, Do not send help. sincerely graduated in 1993. The roman empire with tik tok would be terrifying .
As a grim reaper, all our times have come; here but now they're gone; seasons Dont fear nor do the wind, the sun and the rain we can be like they are... take my hand, we'll be able to fly, im your fan. 40,000 men and women everyday. (hint- agents of fortune, album)
As a rare goth-the fetishisation of goth has made going out and about quite scary. I’m just a guy who likes synth and crunchy bass. The things people have said to me in real life are WILD
This is how I feel. Goth has been fetishized and misrepresented by the masses. That the true goths are made to be seen as some type of page category, or amusement park ride.
@@KaylaSalasidisits kinda funny how every big or small problem that exists in society today is caused by capitalism Yea its a cliché at this point but fr it is always capitalism
I hope you didn't ever want to hear it in the first place, because that would be really embarrassing. Is your circle really into baby talk? I had no idea.
My Thuidans does NOT let me reinstall it since I spent the whole time at the Catalunian plains looking at it on my parchment. Didn't even notice when the huns were routed.
You're completely wrong about corsets. They were not made to sexualize women, and they did not harm women in any way. They were the precursor to the brassiere and were loved by women for being incredibly helpful and stylish. Women began using corsets of different designs for self-expression and men at the time didn't like that women were enjoying something in general. So, they spread misinformation about corsets in form of articles, cartoons and general propaganda to sway public opinion about them. Mostly towards other men since women didn't get a say in pretty much anything around that time. Anyone that says that corsets hurt are wearing ones that are many sizes too small on purpose. That are supposed to be no more constricting than a fitted shirt. They are not meant to make you look thinner. They are not meant to make you look sexy. They are meant to alleviate back pain by supporting breasts. A lot of the photos that were shown were rare examples of higher class women wearing corsets incorrectly on purpose to get a result that was not intended. Wearing them tight-laced was never advised. I love your videos. It's just that this time you accidentally spread misinformation. Not your fault, really. The origins of the corset are so muddied that even some major historians and commentators don't know what fact is and what is fiction. Little extra bonus: Vampires are based on an actual group of disorders called Porphyria that makes you pale, have more prominent or pointed teeth and need to stay out of the sunlight. Among other, much worse symptoms. So, comparing them to a Victorian child stricken with illness is likely more accurate than you may have thought. haha Edit: Also, I was a goth from like 13 to 19. When kid was born, I just naturally started dressing more like a normal dad. But I have a really cool beard. So, it's cool.
It's just modern 3rd wave intersectional-feminism: "As long as woman does something by her own choice, it's feminism and thus automatically good. But if I don't like it and that other women shouldn't like it, it's internalized misogyny and oppressive."
As someone who has been going to goth clubs since the 90s, and in a city with a thriving industrial and post-punk scene, I can say those in the scene here do sometimes put in a lot of effort in outfits/makeup, but depends on the event/night. Basement post-punk show? Some makeup, more casual dress (band t-shirts, etc). Bigger touring band? More likely to see high fashion goth. Sometimes it's the same people. And I'm guilty of that too (though I was never really high-fashion); I'm more likely to dress up if I'm playing a show than going to one. But the point I want to make, is all the goth girls I know, and have known for 20+ years do still sometimes "look the part" and most of us don't really care what the pop culture perception is.
@@ViViVex well, sure, in the context of sharing relevant experience, but on the other hand, I've been doing this for far too many years to feel guilty about that!
I wouldn't call myself gothic. I am more into anime and stuff, but it feels like within this culture there are a ton of overlap between us and many other sub cultures. So I feel like I know a bit between the cultures. I think the main factor for most of these cultures is not really caring what other people think of you. Well it was like that in the past, not sure now because anime is going mainstream. Mostly due to the sorry state US entertainment is kind of in right now, so people are looking elsewhere. Feels like the era around 2016 was a nice sweet spot where it wasn't really mainstream, but there was a good amount of money in the industry. I don't really like when hobbies go mainstream because it becomes harder to find what you like, since it kind of stops being made for you. I think the reason why I always had some affinity for Goth, aside from liking darker colored clothes and such was the characters seemed to always portrayed as being more down to earth. I think Punk is more of an active rejection of mainstream culture. Which is ironic because some of the bands kind of became villains for the establishment. The Japanese have similar subcultures one being Ganguro, which feels more Punkish. Punk because they reject common Japanese fashion, but are otherwise normal. The fashion used to be much more extreme. I know Japan also has a Goth scene as well.
As another goth (kinda) I don't know why anyone would be offended by it, like most the video's comment chains come off sort of trashy, imho. A lot of people spent the last decade maybe rightly hating on various aesthetics, now young people want to emulate styles that we find cool, and we're still not happy. All I can think of is people dislike the popularity or not getting funny looks in public, but at that point I've gotta be frank - they ought to reevaluate who the poser really is if they care so much about being the main character. That's all I'll say since the comment is getting a bit long and off topic. Also, the comment above mine is a cool tidbit.
@kosmosXcannon I'm gith and love anime so I do include things from that into my style. As well as a few other sun genres so I ain't just goth style all the time. So I have this unique style with a mixture of feminine and tomboy.
The representation is fetishized. And I hate that. I began to listen to dark wave and post punk because my goth friend didn't have a friend to talk spooky stuff too. And now I am in the scene lol. Bht what I hate is the mass misrepresentation of goths. Labeling them as Gothic punky bimbo, or the sacrificial spitfire. It's disgusting.
@Christcorepunkfan it was funny back in like 2018 or 17. Idk when the big tiddy goth gf meme became a thing. But it just kind of stuck. And that's what people think it is.
99% of real goth girls i talk to hate the goth gf meme. Don't blame them, but 10/10 most dudes really mean e girl instead of an actual goth. Edit: so about corsets, the corset was actually like a bra of sorts. It helped give the dress shape and support. Wasn't just 'make wamen more smexy.'
it's quite similar to the modern bra in that it can both be used for sex appeal and functionality. like you wear a bra for support, but you can also wear one to give you better cleavage. the same way you can wear a corset for support, or to give you a more hourglass silhouette.
Goth girls may be tempting... but my heart continues to lie with the empire through pleasantries and bright days and through unpleasantries and dark storms, through to the end of time and even beyond the death of Zeus himself. Viva Roma
The micromanaged, socially isolated, autistic, shy, pampered, well-mannered, meek, soft-spoken, underweight, lonely, depressed, fragile, emotionally sensitive only daughter of a rich, arrogant, overbearing, imperious, ruthless, strategical, widowed old colonial English Lord, landowner of 10,000 square kilometers of tea plantations in India, who sees his daughter like twice a year, whose secretly obsessed with the occult and secretly plotting to overthrow the king.
Tik Tok really ruined the internet. I don't use it, neither Shorts or Reels, but everywhere somehow it's mentioned constantly and it's always because something bad happened
2020 is when it started getting its hooks into everything and slowly poisoning and changing a lot of things. Although the app has connected the world and gives easy access to info and ppl, it's done a lot of harm
My only fear is getting too old to discern right from wrong, ceding into my most primal desires, eventually losing all my life savings to a goth girl that would very easily outsmart me. That scares me no cap.
@@closcer3950 honestly there isn’t an explanation but if you look it up you can see it has no connection to it. There are only theories why it’s called that
@@closcer3950Because somebody called it that. Look it up. Literally the first sentence to the origin of it in Wikipedia states: "Although the origin of the fashion is unclear, at the end of the 1970s a new movement known as Otome (乙女) was founded, which slightly influenced Lolita fashion since Otome means maiden and maiden style looks like a less elaborated Lolita style" And "The term 'Lolita' first appeared in the fashion magazine Ryukou Tsushin in the September 1987 issue." So basically it's called that because somebody called it that
@sunstar-r7e an art movement born around XVIII century that was based of classic works of art ie Greek sculpture painting and philosophy. Basically people from the XVIII imitating the style of the old Greeks.
I'm a black Goth and I've been a Goth and a Metalhead for 16 years. I love She Past Away and Bauhaus which are my favorite Goth bands, also.. The Cure released a new album!!
@ Molchat Doma slaps and I'll look into Skinny Puppy! Some of my other fave bands are Siouxsie and The Banshees, Echo and the Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, Sisters of Mercy, and 0rgy (censored/misspelled for obv reason lol)
Corsets did not destroy women’s rib cage that’s a myth. It’s what was used to support women’s breast before the bra. Although there’s evidence that bras were used before the Victorian era
I had a haitian coworker ask me hesitantly: "are you a goff?" because he didn't know why I wore a red mowhawk, studded + patched denim, and 16 eyed combat boots. Poor guy. I tried to explain it to him using music videos and he said it was all the same thing to him. The reality is that we're just autistic and making up words.
Genres and the associated aesthetic pretty much were invented by a government think tank and a board of military psychologists. They call it “culture creation” Bobbi socks and greasers, laurel canyon, androgyny, hip hop, punk rock, all of it. Take from that what you will
I got called emo once and I said no this is called goth the difference in the music. The different music inspired the styles. My brothers friend learnt something that day.
I think that one's regional, it seems like some parts of the world call anything dark "goth" and some "emo." where I'm from it's emo... I risk getting "I fell in love with an emo girl!" sung at me every time I am in public.
Time-traveling goth girl wouldn't be able to converse with ANYONE, but she'd be an aspirational thirst trap for the Goth warriors who'd take Roman "war brides" and force them into modern goth fashion.
I was a goth girl in the turn of 80's-90's. And it was nothing like these visuals of 'goth girls' I see in this video. What I see here seems artificial and made for the show, a cameo, pure tiktok. You went through Steampunk and Loli and what there is, but it all looks the same to me., the same girl in every photo. Goth scene back then was individual and creative. Goth music was not available to everyone so we went through trouble to achieve it, and in the lack of it just listened to classical music. Colourful hair dyes and contact lenses were hard to come by, and corsets way too expensive for everyone. We did goth on another, less materialistic level. We expressed ourselves through cultural knowledge and tastes. Many read history and poetry and practised arts to feed and express our inner selves. We stood out more with our thoughts and expression and how we carried ourselves, and back then it was easy to be weird and different, believe me. One strategic piercing, or merely an earring in one ear only was enough to spot another of the kin. Don't get me wrong, we still looked the part too, but in a unique way and often in more subtle ways - after all we actualyl had to function with other people too. We did not have online shopping, but we had second hand stores and our grandmother's real vintage funeral dress, and a sowing machine. And we made our selfies into art back then.
Most supposed, modern day Goth Girls aren't Goth at all, it's strictly an image. The majority of them listen to Hip Hop and Girly Pop. I'm 52 years old by the way and remember when Goths truly were Goths.
@AdaBlack-w7l What are you talking about? Goth was never about sex, lol. You're either Goth or you aren't and like it or not, the music played a major role in it and still does to real Goths. You either get it or you don't, there's no in-between. Sorry.
@@AdaBlack-w7l "Goth" is a musical subgenre. This is easily defeated by saying that someone who dresses like a metalhead is a metalhead. In reality, you have to enjoy the music.
@AdaBlack-w7l You've made it very clear that in your opinion, Goth music is irrelevant to the Goth scene and that the image is the only important aspect. Just give it up already.
@AdaBlack-w7l I'm sure you already noticed that at no point did I claim to be a Goth and that's for one simple reason, i'm not. My favorite genre of music is Psychedelic music. You on the other hand claim to be a Goth and the true irony here is that as you've already noticed from my playlists, I do indeed actually listen to Goth music, unlike yourself who just simply dismisses Goth music as "irrelevant." Have a wonderful day, mmmkay?
This whole goth fashion aesthetic divorced itself from the music waaay before Tiktok. The two aesthetics have been completely independent from one another as far back as I recall first getting into metal, so 25 years ago. It was confusing at first, then disappointing, but that's the way it goes until they enforce the fashion police
There definitely is, just not nearly as much as there is for the girls. Girls dominate attraction and beauty related stuff guys dominate sports and physical activity stuff.
@@colorblockpoprocks6973 You'd be surprised. Women send unwanted nudes, get touchy-feely, flirty, just as sexually aggressive, and just as depraved as men with guys They find really attractive. I had one woman tell Me she wants to rip My dick off and use it as a dildo. The thing is most women don't find most men even slightly attractive let alone really attractive so lots of men never get to see this side of women meanwhile a woman just has to put a picture of herself online to have her DMs swarmed. They're not necessarily more respectful just more picky on who They treat that way.
We're still keeping to ourselves in the underground ignoring all this BS the best we can, still attending all the gigs. Going to all the clubs and events. It's annoying getting shouted UwU by passer-by's though.
1:07 there is actualy very interesting history of underground, post-punk and punk music scene coming from 80s sssr that inspired theese trending synthwave bands like Molchat Doma, Ploho, Nurnberg etc. If you are interested, I suggest you to do some research. There are even few nice videos on this topic in english.
the aestheticization of the goth girl is exactly why i dont dress in that "modern trad goth" style and i dont introduce myself as goth/punk. Ive grown to dislike alot of people in the online goth or in general alternative community because they only care about how they look and are very pro consumerism and promote brands like shein, punkrave, killstar... Because most people dont understand the core values that actually are goth like the deep love and genuine interest for the music and understanding of the punk roots and with that not having prejudice but understanding against people for actually behaving or having physical looks that go against the norm, believing in the the same rights for every human, also a love for animal live The music that u are interested in and the way that you shape your world views are what you would have to be considering to change if you are genuinely interested in what goth is
btw Hong Kong Garden was anti- racist ! Siouxsie wrote it because she was upset with the racist treatment she witnessed at a restaurant named Hong Kong Gardens. dear Collea please correct that comment.
After watching the while video it all comes down to fetishizing.. you think one thing from the way someone presents themselves....... and forget they're people.... like if you look at someone and think thing you know them by their appearance you'll always play the fool
Uh, the black clothing dark themed music thing happened here in the U.S. simultaneously and independently from the European scene. They were called Death Rockers. Check the 1981 compilation album "Hell Comes To Your House". I never heard the word "Goth" until the mid 80s.
i always loved goth music from Bauhaus, siouxsie sue, the Cure, Joy Division, etc , but i was never cool enough to go all black, as in hair, nails, clothes etc.. this vid is more thorough than many of us expected.
I do think it’s important to remember that early representation in film was not able to include music, so it would only be assumed, but of course, for people were first introduced through a film than the music element would be lost on them
people have been dour and morbid since before commercialized music would be "supporting the goth movement", so i really dont know if goths should only be graded by music tastes. what if a goth is hard of hearing? lol
The memes and internet culture as well as being stuck in the midwest has made it hard to find a woman into actual goth music. I just wanna listen to music in a dark room with a woman that loves the music as much as i do.
I really really liked your summary of the history :) Honestly nowadays if you wanna enjoy anything literally ANYTHING you have to do it offline. The internet as a means of connection has gotten so toxic its just better not use it. search your area for local punk concert, gothic rave nights, join subculture in real places. And one thing i do gotta say about the sexualization you talk about from 25:20. the connection between "people who dress alternative" and "people who probably like to get choked" or are just more open about sexuality is one that is actually real. And it also a factor in why the whole subculture (in the mainstream) is now more sexualized. But also because the fashion of the goths just outdid their ideology. Punk is still punk, because the ideology of Punk is so much more clear and known. Punk is anti establishment, anti-right, anti capitalism. Goth is ??? dark? moody? macabre(most people wouldn't even know that word) so its clear which of these can get easierly absorded into the mainstream. and its all just internet bla bla in the end.
This is a very nice introduction into goth history. A bit of the information is presented in a cheeky way and some of it is factually incorrect. Corsets did not misshape women or break bones. There was a minority of women who tight laced and that can present issues. This is improper use of an item. Corsets lifted the bust, supported the back and distributed garment weight. Much of the information about harm done to women was published by groups who were casting judgement on women being active. Before corsets there were stays and after there were maternity styles, flexible fabrics and sporting models. Today corsetscan be used for fashion or as a medical device for certain spinal conditions. If one wishes to wear a functional corset, get your measurements properly done. The corset will be that size. Also be aware that the reason women's waist looked so small is because they put padding in their clothing to make the hips and bust look more defined on top of shading film negatives aka old timey photoshop. Gothic lolita did not develop from the western gothic subculture. The roots of the fashion started in the seventies with general girly/"otome" and prairie inspired clothes. Some of the more established labels shared store space in the 80's and opened independently in the 90's, like pretty (now angelic pretty) or milk. There are also far more ties to VK and Japanese punk than western goth. The name lolita may have been developed in the 90's but the fashion is older. Most of the images used in this section are from the 2000's and some aren't lolita. Not touched on at all in this video is economic impact and multiple tragedies in the 90's. These things shaped a lot of functions, get togethers and magazines. Subcultural groups came together to afford and host events. This meant sharing space and mixing elements. This partially lead to people mistaking fetish models for goth but also fashion exchanges. Once this bled onto the net and outsiders saw it there was more confusion. People mistaking the labels gothic for goth has also muddied the waters. This video is very fun and a good jumping off point if people find something of interest. Fact check things and remember goth is a music based subculture.
@cranburrey at some point those 00 pop punk bands turned in their cardigans and Ked sneakers for black jeans and black hair dye. What a weird transformation.
dressing in dark alternative clothes does not make someone goth Listening to the music is What makes someone goth And personally, I'm going to to dress how the hell i want to prove people wrong that its not fasion that makes you goth People will tell me "you dont look goth" and cry about it But i will still be goth because im a fan of the music and subculture lol
Though this video is good I heavily disagree with your take in goth fashion. Goth has ALWAYS been people who just wear black and maybe have a somewhat punk-ish touch to it. This whole idea of goth fashion being so incredibly exaggerated and intricate comes from deathrock, which formed at the same time as goth but in American and wasn’t even considered goth for awhile. Even in that scene, people were not that crazy looking. Also, this video completely ignores the fact that real goth is in fact growing. I would argue it’s bigger right now than it ever was in the 70s and 80s at its conception. If you go to an actual show, really for ANY subgenre of goth but especially darkwave, there are tons of people in the subculture and these artists are doing insanely well. This video is basically just kind of incorrect and pessimistic.
Great summary of the history. I think you've made a great foundation to launch into a larger discussion of art, consumption, capital, and connectivity. Mark Fisher has written about the post-punks and there's a couple good video essays on it.
I appreciate you mentioning the origin of many of the more overtly sexual elements of gothic fashion. I understand why people hate the big tiddy goth gf meme but I have seen it veer into historical revisionism and slut shaming far too often.
“De origine actibusque Getarum (The Origin and Deeds of the Getae[n 1]),[1][2][3] commonly abbreviated Getica,[4] written in Late Latin by Jordanes in or shortly after 551 AD,[5][6] claims to be a summary of a voluminous account by Cassiodorus of the origin and history of the Gothic people, which is now lost.[7] However, the extent to which Jordanes actually used the work of Cassiodorus is unknown. It is significant as the only remaining contemporaneous resource that gives an extended account of the origin and history of the Goths, although to what extent it should be considered history or origin mythology is a matter of dispute.” - taken from Wikipedia. I’ve got a copy of the book myself & ever since reading it I’ve had a much deeper love of my ancestry and a much more divinely-rooted appreciation of Gothic architecture and Gothic jewellery.
"One of the groups coming up at the same time as Southern Death Cult was Sex Gang Children, and Andi - he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Édith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin and his followers were Goths. That's where goth came from. - Ian Astbury of the Cult, (Alternative Press, November 1994)."
Holy shit he's actually breaking down the history of the Goths
@@AdaBlack-w7lare you an Ostrogoth or a Visigoth girl
@@AdaBlack-w7ldont trip lol
@ white is a term to dilute culture.
I rather be a Hun. 😉
@AdaBlack-w7l i don't believe in the concept of white tbh. there are so many different cultures from people considered white and they're each vastly different from the other. It's honestly derogatory to call someone white. It takes away from the deep and intricate cultures of Europe.
Visigoths didn’t die for this ... 😭😭
visigoths just molded into what we now know as spanish.
You're right, they died for Christianity. God bless them for converting.
@@Soundeagle3456visgoths took over Europe. Their last line was in Italy iirc
@StoicDivinity they helped stage the reconquista from the mountains of asturias. That area attracted christians from all over the peninsula
@@PrairieSundogLmao. They died for a Trojan Horse ideology which emerged from the slums of Rome with the intention of destroying the European peoples & taking over the world. It’s younger and more aggressive mutation; Islam is here to finish us off.
did you.. did you just trick me into learning history
Everything you see, in some way is connected to history. Everything is connected
It’s almost like you’re living in history unveiling itself 😱
We call it post nut clarity
Goth music Woman here , I have not washed my hair in days , I've been listening to the same darkwave cassette mix and switching it up to roxy music for some spice for 3 days, Do not send help. sincerely graduated in 1993. The roman empire with tik tok would be terrifying .
As a fellow Roman Empire Soldier with a Spear and Sheild. Your days are numbered!! (*Joking*)
Unrelated but I love the pfp lol
As a grim reaper, all our times have come; here but now they're gone; seasons Dont fear nor do the wind, the sun and the rain we can be like they are... take my hand, we'll be able to fly, im your fan. 40,000 men and women everyday. (hint- agents of fortune, album)
I don't understand how Roxy never got big in America they are a fantastic band!
@@Running9750 same but not jokingly
TikTok ruined the word goth for me… like yes you dress alternative but if you don’t listen to goth music you’re NOT goth
Cook
I honestly agree, exactly why I went back to dressing basic and listening to goth in the low-key lmao
🤓
This.
I call all these people alt or alternative, regardless if we talk about metalheads, punks, juggalos, nu metalhead/mall goths etc
As a rare goth-the fetishisation of goth has made going out and about quite scary. I’m just a guy who likes synth and crunchy bass. The things people have said to me in real life are WILD
This is how I feel. Goth has been fetishized and misrepresented by the masses. That the true goths are made to be seen as some type of page category, or amusement park ride.
I've had people straight up tell me I'm not goth bc I don't dress like a tiktok uwu-girlie, they don't even know anything about music
Nobody gaf about you bro 😂
@@crimsonlake-x9zyour pfp goes hard 🫡
I like synth and crunchy bass.
I blame shein for half of this and tiktok for the other half.
Listen zoomers. It was ruined long before tiktok
@@Иблис96 hot topic and nu metal did this way before
@@pl9nningforburialbasically just capitalism and corporate rock ( so just capitalism😭 )
@@KaylaSalasidis evil doesn’t die it reinvents itself
@@KaylaSalasidisits kinda funny how every big or small problem that exists in society today is caused by capitalism
Yea its a cliché at this point but fr it is always capitalism
Goth and Emo have become so overused that they are now interchangeable used to describe anything that’s slightly dark or edgy
just a sex part of it is used. even 2nd wave emo was a suburban dating system + shit music. myspace was a wmd pointed towards alternative music scene.
I never want to hear “goth dommy mommy” again in my life
How about big tiddy goth gf instead?
how about gicky gackers?
@@metalbombr glitzy glizzers ?
I hope you didn't ever want to hear it in the first place, because that would be really embarrassing. Is your circle really into baby talk? I had no idea.
Good, more for the rest of us.
As an Ostrogoth myself, i am glad that i never installed tiktok on my tablet
My Thuidans does NOT let me reinstall it since I spent the whole time at the Catalunian plains looking at it on my parchment. Didn't even notice when the huns were routed.
Least unusual day in transalpine gaul
Tabulet*
Came here thirsting for goth girls and left with knowledge about the Roman empire.
you dirty dog
I brake for 21+ yr old goth girls.
Full of knowledge but still thirsting for goth girls
@ please dont type that ever again
Yeah same cool lore
"Let's go all the way back to 300 AD"
21st century goth girl aesthetic:🤢
16th century Germanic gothic plate armor: 🥵
Based
armor goals
😂
BASED
This guy gets it
You're completely wrong about corsets. They were not made to sexualize women, and they did not harm women in any way. They were the precursor to the brassiere and were loved by women for being incredibly helpful and stylish. Women began using corsets of different designs for self-expression and men at the time didn't like that women were enjoying something in general. So, they spread misinformation about corsets in form of articles, cartoons and general propaganda to sway public opinion about them. Mostly towards other men since women didn't get a say in pretty much anything around that time.
Anyone that says that corsets hurt are wearing ones that are many sizes too small on purpose. That are supposed to be no more constricting than a fitted shirt. They are not meant to make you look thinner. They are not meant to make you look sexy. They are meant to alleviate back pain by supporting breasts. A lot of the photos that were shown were rare examples of higher class women wearing corsets incorrectly on purpose to get a result that was not intended. Wearing them tight-laced was never advised.
I love your videos. It's just that this time you accidentally spread misinformation. Not your fault, really. The origins of the corset are so muddied that even some major historians and commentators don't know what fact is and what is fiction.
Little extra bonus: Vampires are based on an actual group of disorders called Porphyria that makes you pale, have more prominent or pointed teeth and need to stay out of the sunlight. Among other, much worse symptoms. So, comparing them to a Victorian child stricken with illness is likely more accurate than you may have thought. haha
Edit: Also, I was a goth from like 13 to 19. When kid was born, I just naturally started dressing more like a normal dad. But I have a really cool beard. So, it's cool.
I think it's just the media being dumb, you can find many historical inaccuracies like these, not men spreading lies or purpose
THANK you
@@MrsMorel Any time.
It's just modern 3rd wave intersectional-feminism:
"As long as woman does something by her own choice, it's feminism and thus automatically good.
But if I don't like it and that other women shouldn't like it, it's internalized misogyny and oppressive."
@jesustyronechrist2330 I thought it was the 4th wave that ruined it and get upset over stuff like that
As someone who has been going to goth clubs since the 90s, and in a city with a thriving industrial and post-punk scene, I can say those in the scene here do sometimes put in a lot of effort in outfits/makeup, but depends on the event/night. Basement post-punk show? Some makeup, more casual dress (band t-shirts, etc). Bigger touring band? More likely to see high fashion goth. Sometimes it's the same people. And I'm guilty of that too (though I was never really high-fashion); I'm more likely to dress up if I'm playing a show than going to one.
But the point I want to make, is all the goth girls I know, and have known for 20+ years do still sometimes "look the part" and most of us don't really care what the pop culture perception is.
Band advertisement brought to you by
- Doors In The Labyrinth
@@ViViVex well, sure, in the context of sharing relevant experience, but on the other hand, I've been doing this for far too many years to feel guilty about that!
I wouldn't call myself gothic. I am more into anime and stuff, but it feels like within this culture there are a ton of overlap between us and many other sub cultures. So I feel like I know a bit between the cultures. I think the main factor for most of these cultures is not really caring what other people think of you.
Well it was like that in the past, not sure now because anime is going mainstream. Mostly due to the sorry state US entertainment is kind of in right now, so people are looking elsewhere. Feels like the era around 2016 was a nice sweet spot where it wasn't really mainstream, but there was a good amount of money in the industry. I don't really like when hobbies go mainstream because it becomes harder to find what you like, since it kind of stops being made for you.
I think the reason why I always had some affinity for Goth, aside from liking darker colored clothes and such was the characters seemed to always portrayed as being more down to earth. I think Punk is more of an active rejection of mainstream culture. Which is ironic because some of the bands kind of became villains for the establishment.
The Japanese have similar subcultures one being Ganguro, which feels more Punkish. Punk because they reject common Japanese fashion, but are otherwise normal. The fashion used to be much more extreme. I know Japan also has a Goth scene as well.
As another goth (kinda) I don't know why anyone would be offended by it, like most the video's comment chains come off sort of trashy, imho. A lot of people spent the last decade maybe rightly hating on various aesthetics, now young people want to emulate styles that we find cool, and we're still not happy.
All I can think of is people dislike the popularity or not getting funny looks in public, but at that point I've gotta be frank - they ought to reevaluate who the poser really is if they care so much about being the main character.
That's all I'll say since the comment is getting a bit long and off topic. Also, the comment above mine is a cool tidbit.
@kosmosXcannon I'm gith and love anime so I do include things from that into my style. As well as a few other sun genres so I ain't just goth style all the time. So I have this unique style with a mixture of feminine and tomboy.
"Let's talk about goths. BAM! ROMAN HISTORY LESSON!" - Coolea doing UA-cam kungfu.
As a goth woman, the "representation" on the internet is just very frustrating
Cry about it
The representation is fetishized. And I hate that. I began to listen to dark wave and post punk because my goth friend didn't have a friend to talk spooky stuff too. And now I am in the scene lol.
Bht what I hate is the mass misrepresentation of goths. Labeling them as Gothic punky bimbo, or the sacrificial spitfire. It's disgusting.
Its pretty funny tbh…
@Christcorepunkfan it was funny back in like 2018 or 17. Idk when the big tiddy goth gf meme became a thing. But it just kind of stuck. And that's what people think it is.
Notice how we call ourselves Goth women or mostly simply just Goth and all the degenerates here use the term "Goth girl"
the industrial revolution and its consequences
tiktokification and its consequences
has been a disaster for the human race 💯💯
Yeah whatever that one guy said
Booba-Bomber
ted was right
I want a goth girl wife, no not a 2020s goth girl, but a 1020s goth girl!
Reject gothic modernity, return to gothic tradition!
99% of real goth girls i talk to hate the goth gf meme. Don't blame them, but 10/10 most dudes really mean e girl instead of an actual goth.
Edit: so about corsets, the corset was actually like a bra of sorts. It helped give the dress shape and support. Wasn't just 'make wamen more smexy.'
It helped give the dress shape and support to make wamen more smexy.
it's quite similar to the modern bra in that it can both be used for sex appeal and functionality. like you wear a bra for support, but you can also wear one to give you better cleavage. the same way you can wear a corset for support, or to give you a more hourglass silhouette.
Goth girls may be tempting... but my heart continues to lie with the empire through pleasantries and bright days and through unpleasantries and dark storms, through to the end of time and even beyond the death of Zeus himself.
Viva Roma
Zeus is Greek dawg
U mean Jupiter
>Zeus
Non-Roman detected, legions deployed.
BAILIFF WHACK HIS BALLS
Zeus is for losers. HAIL, SOL INVICTUS. IMPERIUM AETERNA
Missed the victorian era's focus on pale, frail, and sickly women. And their obsession with death. Would have fit well in this video
I was so despondent over that I collapsed onto my fainting couch 😩😵
I love a pale, frail, and sickly woman. Just my type.
The micromanaged, socially isolated, autistic, shy, pampered, well-mannered, meek, soft-spoken, underweight, lonely, depressed, fragile, emotionally sensitive only daughter of a rich, arrogant, overbearing, imperious, ruthless, strategical, widowed old colonial English Lord, landowner of 10,000 square kilometers of tea plantations in India, who sees his daughter like twice a year, whose secretly obsessed with the occult and secretly plotting to overthrow the king.
Tik Tok really ruined the internet. I don't use it, neither Shorts or Reels, but everywhere somehow it's mentioned constantly and it's always because something bad happened
China 🇨🇳
2020 is when it started getting its hooks into everything and slowly poisoning and changing a lot of things. Although the app has connected the world and gives easy access to info and ppl, it's done a lot of harm
So like...every other social media website/app?
tiktok definitely didn't help but this has been boiling up since the late 2010s at least from my observations
The world is post music. It's a society of profiles and spectacles.
can't believe there wasn't a single image of Raven from Teen Titans. she's the key to all of this
Hex girls definitely helped push me to the dark side 😂
Raven's my waifu for life, not gonna lie
Im tired of being sexualzied, and having goth culture being watered down
nobody forced you to put the fishnets on, you're sexualising yourself.
I Like Being Sexualized' All Over',,, ha, but I don't think that's what you were thinking 'Sorry micky.
Me too kid
Who cares. Its low key funny sometimes😭🙏
@Christcorepunkfanno it isn't lol it's pretty unpleasant
My only fear is getting too old to discern right from wrong, ceding into my most primal desires, eventually losing all my life savings to a goth girl that would very easily outsmart me. That scares me no cap.
Corsets were not breaking any bones and the fashion style of Lolita, the japanese one, has nothing to do with pedos
It's literally called lolita lad. Look it up, famous book. Hahahaha
@ look up j fashion Lolita, super popular in Japan has NOTHING to do with the book
@@Luna.Lupa. then why is it literally named after the book?
@@closcer3950 honestly there isn’t an explanation but if you look it up you can see it has no connection to it. There are only theories why it’s called that
@@closcer3950Because somebody called it that. Look it up. Literally the first sentence to the origin of it in Wikipedia states: "Although the origin of the fashion is unclear, at the end of the 1970s a new movement known as Otome (乙女) was founded, which slightly influenced Lolita fashion since Otome means maiden and maiden style looks like a less elaborated Lolita style"
And "The term 'Lolita' first appeared in the fashion magazine Ryukou Tsushin in the September 1987 issue."
So basically it's called that because somebody called it that
The Banshees are The Goat of Goth!
💅
bro explained neoclassicism and romanticism
What’s neoclassicism?
@sunstar-r7e an art movement born around XVIII century that was based of classic works of art ie Greek sculpture painting and philosophy. Basically people from the XVIII imitating the style of the old Greeks.
I fw the architecture and music, it’s so cool
I'm a black Goth and I've been a Goth and a Metalhead for 16 years. I love She Past Away and Bauhaus which are my favorite Goth bands, also.. The Cure released a new album!!
U like skinny puppy
Fellow black goth 🤘🏾 love The Cure
@goddessofchaos7754 no skinny puppy people dont tall about goth industrial also molchat doma sounds very very goth
@ Molchat Doma slaps and I'll look into Skinny Puppy! Some of my other fave bands are Siouxsie and The Banshees, Echo and the Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, Sisters of Mercy, and 0rgy (censored/misspelled for obv reason lol)
Yay!!! Went to see the cure in 2022, was breathtaking 🖤🖤🖤
As a big history fan, this video was a pleasant surprise.
Now I want a time travelling buddy movie where a visigoth and a mall goth team up to defeat the jocks and win homecoming
Corsets did not destroy women’s rib cage that’s a myth. It’s what was used to support women’s breast before the bra. Although there’s evidence that bras were used before the Victorian era
I usually only hear people call alternative people emo, even like proper goths get called emo, people just don’t know what these terms mean
I had a haitian coworker ask me hesitantly: "are you a goff?" because he didn't know why I wore a red mowhawk, studded + patched denim, and 16 eyed combat boots. Poor guy. I tried to explain it to him using music videos and he said it was all the same thing to him. The reality is that we're just autistic and making up words.
Genres and the associated aesthetic pretty much were invented by a government think tank and a board of military psychologists. They call it “culture creation” Bobbi socks and greasers, laurel canyon, androgyny, hip hop, punk rock, all of it. Take from that what you will
I got called emo once and I said no this is called goth the difference in the music. The different music inspired the styles. My brothers friend learnt something that day.
I think that one's regional, it seems like some parts of the world call anything dark "goth" and some "emo." where I'm from it's emo... I risk getting "I fell in love with an emo girl!" sung at me every time I am in public.
most "goth girls" are just prep girls that think they are goth lmao.
This comment is accurate, but I wish that it wasn't. I'd genuinely be shocked to meet someone who dresses "goth" nowadays and they actually were one.
Time-traveling goth girl wouldn't be able to converse with ANYONE, but she'd be an aspirational thirst trap for the Goth warriors who'd take Roman "war brides" and force them into modern goth fashion.
Cannot BELIEVE you would slander gothic lolita like this. Next you're gonna tell me BAND MAID doesn't have the hardest drip.
As someone who frequented a goth club in the 2000s, my impression was that it was always much more about the fashion than about the music.
I've been tricked into learning about the Roman Empire
Never underestimate the impact of Elvira.
Or The Crow
The editing and sheer amount of memes in this video is awe inspiring
I was a goth girl in the turn of 80's-90's. And it was nothing like these visuals of 'goth girls' I see in this video. What I see here seems artificial and made for the show, a cameo, pure tiktok. You went through Steampunk and Loli and what there is, but it all looks the same to me., the same girl in every photo. Goth scene back then was individual and creative. Goth music was not available to everyone so we went through trouble to achieve it, and in the lack of it just listened to classical music. Colourful hair dyes and contact lenses were hard to come by, and corsets way too expensive for everyone. We did goth on another, less materialistic level. We expressed ourselves through cultural knowledge and tastes. Many read history and poetry and practised arts to feed and express our inner selves. We stood out more with our thoughts and expression and how we carried ourselves, and back then it was easy to be weird and different, believe me. One strategic piercing, or merely an earring in one ear only was enough to spot another of the kin. Don't get me wrong, we still looked the part too, but in a unique way and often in more subtle ways - after all we actualyl had to function with other people too. We did not have online shopping, but we had second hand stores and our grandmother's real vintage funeral dress, and a sowing machine. And we made our selfies into art back then.
Still waiting for the screamo video
we need it
yooo based
Aye
We are not in 2008 anymore
plzzzz i beg feed me skramz
TLDR: Get out of the internet, theres problaby a goth gathering in some oldass building somewhere. Go make friends.
Most supposed, modern day Goth Girls aren't Goth at all, it's strictly an image. The majority of them listen to Hip Hop and Girly Pop.
I'm 52 years old by the way and remember when Goths truly were Goths.
@AdaBlack-w7l What are you talking about? Goth was never about sex, lol. You're either Goth or you aren't and like it or not, the music played a major role in it and still does to real Goths.
You either get it or you don't, there's no in-between. Sorry.
@@AdaBlack-w7l "Goth" is a musical subgenre. This is easily defeated by saying that someone who dresses like a metalhead is a metalhead. In reality, you have to enjoy the music.
@AdaBlack-w7l You've made it very clear that in your opinion, Goth music is irrelevant to the Goth scene and that the image is the only important aspect. Just give it up already.
@AdaBlack-w7l I'm sure you already noticed that at no point did I claim to be a Goth and that's for one simple reason, i'm not. My favorite genre of music is Psychedelic music. You on the other hand claim to be a Goth and the true irony here is that as you've already noticed from my playlists, I do indeed actually listen to Goth music, unlike yourself who just simply dismisses Goth music as "irrelevant."
Have a wonderful day, mmmkay?
Agreed! Make Goths Goth Again.
coolea history class goes hard
As a dude from eastern europe who's been into post punk and goth for over 10 years this hit my funny bone.
This whole goth fashion aesthetic divorced itself from the music waaay before Tiktok. The two aesthetics have been completely independent from one another as far back as I recall first getting into metal, so 25 years ago. It was confusing at first, then disappointing, but that's the way it goes until they enforce the fashion police
you should consider making more ancient history videos, they're actually sick and you're really good at them.
It’s too bad there isn’t a love for goth guys. Why don’t I get objectified for my sisters of mercy shirt.
you are a penis
Because objectification is mostly done by men. And it doesn't feel nice.
There definitely is, just not nearly as much as there is for the girls. Girls dominate attraction and beauty related stuff guys dominate sports and physical activity stuff.
you do get sexualized, but women are more respectful about thirst ig lol
@@colorblockpoprocks6973 You'd be surprised. Women send unwanted nudes, get touchy-feely, flirty, just as sexually aggressive, and just as depraved as men with guys They find really attractive. I had one woman tell Me she wants to rip My dick off and use it as a dildo. The thing is most women don't find most men even slightly attractive let alone really attractive so lots of men never get to see this side of women meanwhile a woman just has to put a picture of herself online to have her DMs swarmed.
They're not necessarily more respectful just more picky on who They treat that way.
We're still keeping to ourselves in the underground ignoring all this BS the best we can, still attending all the gigs. Going to all the clubs and events.
It's annoying getting shouted UwU by passer-by's though.
1:07 there is actualy very interesting history of underground, post-punk and punk music scene coming from 80s sssr that inspired theese trending synthwave bands like Molchat Doma, Ploho, Nurnberg etc. If you are interested, I suggest you to do some research. There are even few nice videos on this topic in english.
Brilliant work, my dude. This was well researched and hilarious. Killer editing.
props for the excellent pronounciation of "Das Kabinett des Dr. Caligari" ;) Greetings from Bavaria!
Humorous and informative. I tried to keep track of the number of meme gifs while learning about history. Very nice.
I didn't expect an ancient history lesson from the goblin lord, ngl
I like how there is no slow moment in your editing and montage, i feel like a baby watching colorful slop
the aestheticization of the goth girl is exactly why i dont dress in that "modern trad goth" style and i dont introduce myself as goth/punk. Ive grown to dislike alot of people in the online goth or in general alternative community because they only care about how they look and are very pro consumerism and promote brands like shein, punkrave, killstar...
Because most people dont understand the core values that actually are goth
like the deep love and genuine interest for the music and understanding of the punk roots and with that not having prejudice but understanding against people for actually behaving or having physical looks that go against the norm, believing in the the same rights for every human, also a love for animal live
The music that u are interested in and the way that you shape your world views are what you would have to be considering to change if you are genuinely interested in what goth is
btw Hong Kong Garden was anti- racist ! Siouxsie wrote it because she was upset with the racist treatment she witnessed at a restaurant named Hong Kong Gardens. dear Collea please correct that comment.
Visigoths .... this video went a way different direction then I thott it would....and i love it
After watching the while video it all comes down to fetishizing.. you think one thing from the way someone presents themselves....... and forget they're people.... like if you look at someone and think thing you know them by their appearance you'll always play the fool
@@naganeen0 fr
This may be your finest work yet
as an eastern European goth-girl this video infuriates me/j
love your content was waiting for when you were gonna touch on the goth subculture!!
your not eastern european
everyone needs to watch this video😭
Vid starts at 29:35
I’m 49 & been goth & in love with Robert Smith for 36 years 🖤🖤🖤🖤🐀
Thank you, for catering to my needs, in this video, as a lover of history and architecture.
Uh, the black clothing dark themed music thing happened here in the U.S. simultaneously and independently from the European scene. They were called Death Rockers. Check the 1981 compilation album "Hell Comes To Your House". I never heard the word "Goth" until the mid 80s.
21:54 Guy with a giant sombrero - I'm dying! *wheeze!*
i like how hank covered me in particular in the second video
i always loved goth music from Bauhaus, siouxsie sue, the Cure, Joy Division, etc , but i was never cool enough to go all black, as in hair, nails, clothes etc.. this vid is more thorough than many of us expected.
I do think it’s important to remember that early representation in film was not able to include music, so it would only be assumed, but of course, for people were first introduced through a film than the music element would be lost on them
people have been dour and morbid since before commercialized music would be "supporting the goth movement", so i really dont know if goths should only be graded by music tastes. what if a goth is hard of hearing? lol
Yap yap yap approach a goth girl and start barking, got it. Subscribed
The memes and internet culture as well as being stuck in the midwest has made it hard to find a woman into actual goth music. I just wanna listen to music in a dark room with a woman that loves the music as much as i do.
Learned alot from this video 🔥 easy sub
we aint making it out of the western roman empire with this one ☠☠
I really really liked your summary of the history :)
Honestly nowadays if you wanna enjoy anything
literally ANYTHING
you have to do it offline. The internet as a means of connection has gotten so toxic its just better not use it.
search your area for local punk concert, gothic rave nights, join subculture in real places.
And one thing i do gotta say about the sexualization you talk about from 25:20. the connection between "people who dress alternative" and "people who probably like to get choked" or are just more open about sexuality is one that is actually real.
And it also a factor in why the whole subculture (in the mainstream) is now more sexualized. But also because the fashion of the goths just outdid their ideology. Punk is still punk, because the ideology of Punk is so much more clear and known. Punk is anti establishment, anti-right, anti capitalism.
Goth is ??? dark? moody? macabre(most people wouldn't even know that word)
so its clear which of these can get easierly absorded into the mainstream.
and its all just internet bla bla in the end.
As goth who makes goth music-I appreciate ya for making this video
Coolea visually speaking, oozes stoner metal
Candlemass FTW
Uh, No, more like Rehashcore
Maaaannn that dude was laying it DOWN on that cop car 😂😂😂😂😂
Really good video. Educational bits were really cool
This is a very nice introduction into goth history. A bit of the information is presented in a cheeky way and some of it is factually incorrect.
Corsets did not misshape women or break bones. There was a minority of women who tight laced and that can present issues. This is improper use of an item. Corsets lifted the bust, supported the back and distributed garment weight. Much of the information about harm done to women was published by groups who were casting judgement on women being active. Before corsets there were stays and after there were maternity styles, flexible fabrics and sporting models. Today corsetscan be used for fashion or as a medical device for certain spinal conditions. If one wishes to wear a functional corset, get your measurements properly done. The corset will be that size. Also be aware that the reason women's waist looked so small is because they put padding in their clothing to make the hips and bust look more defined on top of shading film negatives aka old timey photoshop.
Gothic lolita did not develop from the western gothic subculture. The roots of the fashion started in the seventies with general girly/"otome" and prairie inspired clothes. Some of the more established labels shared store space in the 80's and opened independently in the 90's, like pretty (now angelic pretty) or milk. There are also far more ties to VK and Japanese punk than western goth. The name lolita may have been developed in the 90's but the fashion is older. Most of the images used in this section are from the 2000's and some aren't lolita.
Not touched on at all in this video is economic impact and multiple tragedies in the 90's. These things shaped a lot of functions, get togethers and magazines. Subcultural groups came together to afford and host events. This meant sharing space and mixing elements. This partially lead to people mistaking fetish models for goth but also fashion exchanges. Once this bled onto the net and outsiders saw it there was more confusion. People mistaking the labels gothic for goth has also muddied the waters.
This video is very fun and a good jumping off point if people find something of interest. Fact check things and remember goth is a music based subculture.
best history lesson I've had since watching troy and 300
2000s: I’m not emo I’m goth!
2020s: I’m not goth I’m emo!
Sigma??
It's almost like they're two different subcultures
@ that’s the entire point of said comment.
to put it in layman’s terms: huzz skibidi, Ohio rizz.
I hope you understand now
@cranburrey at some point those 00 pop punk bands turned in their cardigans and Ked sneakers for black jeans and black hair dye.
What a weird transformation.
Been waiting in the video for your goth goblin hehehe 🖤
dressing in dark alternative clothes does not make someone goth
Listening to the music is What makes someone goth
And personally, I'm going to to dress how the hell i want to prove people wrong that its not fasion that makes you goth
People will tell me "you dont look goth" and cry about it
But i will still be goth because im a fan of the music and subculture lol
26:31 "Traditional subculture" just sounds so funny to me
Great stuff, scratching my Rome nerd and music nerd tendencies in one video...
Love this channel. 🖤
Though this video is good I heavily disagree with your take in goth fashion. Goth has ALWAYS been people who just wear black and maybe have a somewhat punk-ish touch to it. This whole idea of goth fashion being so incredibly exaggerated and intricate comes from deathrock, which formed at the same time as goth but in American and wasn’t even considered goth for awhile. Even in that scene, people were not that crazy looking. Also, this video completely ignores the fact that real goth is in fact growing. I would argue it’s bigger right now than it ever was in the 70s and 80s at its conception. If you go to an actual show, really for ANY subgenre of goth but especially darkwave, there are tons of people in the subculture and these artists are doing insanely well. This video is basically just kind of incorrect and pessimistic.
Great summary of the history. I think you've made a great foundation to launch into a larger discussion of art, consumption, capital, and connectivity. Mark Fisher has written about the post-punks and there's a couple good video essays on it.
There's just something about the goth girl look that's bizarrely sexy. Like, not bizarre and sexy at the same time, but so sexy that it's bizarre.
Best vid so far.
I appreciate you mentioning the origin of many of the more overtly sexual elements of gothic fashion. I understand why people hate the big tiddy goth gf meme but I have seen it veer into historical revisionism and slut shaming far too often.
“De origine actibusque Getarum (The Origin and Deeds of the Getae[n 1]),[1][2][3] commonly abbreviated Getica,[4] written in Late Latin by Jordanes in or shortly after 551 AD,[5][6] claims to be a summary of a voluminous account by Cassiodorus of the origin and history of the Gothic people, which is now lost.[7] However, the extent to which Jordanes actually used the work of Cassiodorus is unknown. It is significant as the only remaining contemporaneous resource that gives an extended account of the origin and history of the Goths, although to what extent it should be considered history or origin mythology is a matter of dispute.”
- taken from Wikipedia. I’ve got a copy of the book myself & ever since reading it I’ve had a much deeper love of my ancestry and a much more divinely-rooted appreciation of Gothic architecture and Gothic jewellery.
luv u Coolea
"One of the groups coming up at the same time as Southern Death Cult was Sex Gang Children, and Andi - he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Édith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin and his followers were Goths. That's where goth came from.
- Ian Astbury of the Cult, (Alternative Press, November 1994)."
THE SMITHS MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣
Goth is the sublime embodied in people, places and ideas.
bring back goth style music, I love it so much