You said a small line, "someone could be static on their gender for years and years and still be genderfluid." That line meant a lot to me. I shift maybe once or twice a month, and oftentimes I struggle with impostor syndrome on whether or not I'm genderfluid. So thank you :)
LoL real funny but the Rainbow Bridge isn't a Gay Symbol. Neither is anything rainbow related in Mythology because Mythology is shaped by the Mystical Significance of Something and in many cultures Rainbows have huge mystical significance.
@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme yeah, but in the Modern Era the Rainbow is a symbol that represents us, so by proxy the LGBTQ+ Community have claimed Asgard. Sorry I don't make the rules.
The loki from the main MCU canon is only revealed as “Sex-fluid” due to his transformation abilities. The straightening-up of Loki’s aesthetics by putting him in Khakis, and pairing him with an alternative timeline version of himself as a girl is really a disservice to queer and trans representation it seems. I just really wish we’d get more than just the tacit deniability of queer representation, queer baiting, and queer coding we are oh so used to by DisneyTM…
@@queer-ios3155 I've been following this because I'm a trashy shipper, but the director only said this after the release of episode 3 when people were apparently weirded out by the dynamic, and then reversed course after episode 4. It's been more or less confirmed by the director and the head writer, Michael Waldron. We'll see what the last episode will bring us, I guess.
And lets not even talk how it was confirmed, in-show, that Sylvie being a female Loki is apparently so unique that not a single variant Loki has seen one before. Loki (tragically) ain't genderfluid in the MCU and it's been made undeniable now.
@@andie.3632 That's not even remotely the case. Just because three characters (who speak mammalian) in a room haven't experienced it, in no way indicates that their POVs are more generally true. Even if that's what the writers intended, there isn't anything "undeniable" about it.
I think it's also important to note that the show established that Loki was gender-fluid and bisexual and this was natural to his Loki-ness, and also that he is the kind of guy to fall in love with a variant of himself partially because his narcissism. But then they introduce a whole void of several new Loki characters, all apparently cisgender men, and there wasn't an ounce of romantic or sexual tension between any of these characters. They establish he's bisexual and would love himself, and then they have many versions of him but he only loves the female version. Their heteronormativity is overwhelming in this show. I honestly think they just didn't make that connection, they made him bi, gender-fluid, and self-loving but didn't think any further about the implications of it, so when he meets other male versions of himself he doesn't flirt with them (and they don't flirt or have apparent relations with each other, in case anyone uses the argument that out Loki was already taken with Sylvie). Also, the other male Loki characters are openly disturbed by the idea that there may be a feminine Loki, which negates the gender-fluidity and further makes the idea that Sylvie is a woman or Loki is gender-fluid is not normative of a Loki (also he honestly probably should have been offended by that in some capacity, they basically were openly disgusted by non-cisnormative male Lokis and he was just okay with that). Furthermore, it feels weird that there are basically zero intersectional Lokis. Imagine you're a poc and you're brought into a multiverse full of other versions of you and they all have a gimmick compared to one another, but you're the ONLY version of yourself that is a person of colour, and the rest are all white. There's old white you, white you, young white you, female white you, president white you, hippie white you, and bunch more wacky yous that are all white, and you're apparently the only version of yourself that's a person of colour, that's your variation, your deviation. The conclusion of that would be that you're originally, inherently, or supposed to be white. That would really fuck with you. There's no poc hippy you, no poc female you, not even a you from any other race besides white, you're biggest defining feature to separate you from other yous is that your the one that isn't white. Same for if your a woman and your turn up and all the other yous are male, even the crocodile version of you goes by he/him, your womanhood is not supposed to have happened. That's kinda really fucked.
So I 100% agree with your point about there being no sexual tension between any of the other Loki variants in the Void, and I'd just chalk that one up to the suits at Disney being stupid, greedy mollusks who care too much about the bizarre hang-ups of the MCU's more conservative fans, even though those people are already pissed off about the absolute-bare-minimum representation we LGBTQ+ people now have in the franchise (just like when conservative Star Trek fans got mad about Jadzia kissing a woman, apparently totally unaware that there would have been a full-on gay romance in DS9 if not for studio interference). Seems to me like we need to shift the Overton window on this issue. Let's all start demanding a graphic gay sex scene in the next Pixar movie! As for your second point, I'd like to offer a lukewarm defense based on the fact that the "Sacred Timeline" protected by the TVA is one in which Loki is an adult cis white male, so it's probably statistically less likely for there to be variants who are too different from that, since the TVA would be doing everything in its power to prune timelines where the conditions allowed for other Lokis to be born. Thus we get an adult cis white female variant, an adult cis black male, a young cis white male, etc., each with only one or two attributes changed at a time. That being said, the very existence of alligator Loki does indicate that the TVA sometimes misses fairly significant branches (Were they ALL alligators in that timeline?!), which is why this is only a lukewarm defense and it probably all traces back to the whole stupid, greedy mollusks thing.
I actually think the reason Loki didn't flirt with any of his other variants is because he hadn't really bonded with them. He didn't start flirting with Sylvie until he had chased her, fought her twice, argued with her, tried to trick her, had a laugh at her expense, and then managed to pull off a "plan" with her and then had some friendly banter. I would argue that you don't see the other Loki's having relationships with each other because the 4 we have any time to get to know are: 1. A child (off the table for the adults and unlikely to crush on men in their 40s) 2. An alligator who is also a child based on the size 3. A person who spend thousands of years in self imposed isolation and meditation after trying his hand at heroism to disastrous results. While lonely, pessimistic, and self loathing, he seems to have gotten rid of most of his narcissism 4. A braggart who is a Loki who is at a spot in his life where he is super narcissistic possibly to the point of really not considering even other Loki's worthy of his regard and was biding his time to betray the group he was with. Note that originally the Loki we follow basically regards other possible versions of himself as inferior by default. It actually takes a lot of character growth to get that Loki to a spot where he allows himself to develop respect for other people including Sylvie and by being able to respect her to actually respect himself. I did think I saw a woman variant in President Loki's crew as well as an Asian variant. But really, what it might mean that there aren't that many non white non male presenting Loki variants could be that on the sacred timeline Loki spends the most time feeling comfortable in that body format or the sacred timeline is curated to give Loki a complex that makes them feel uncomfortable changing forms to other skin tones or genders frequently or for long periods of time. Less time in other forms means less chances to step off the predetermined path. So it is entirely likely that the Loki we follow spent some years as a little girl and Sylvie's nexus event was actually her coming to terms with being more comfortable in how she was different from others over time after her parents told her she was adopted. Or maybe her nexus event was she decided she was going to be primarily female in order to pursue being a Valkyrie. I am, however, disappointed in the lack of Shape shifting from any of the Loki Variants. But Disney isn't anyone's friends, they are a giant soulless corporation that pretends to have a soul because that is part of their brand that makes them money. I knew going in, that there was a large chance they would straight out ignore all of Loki's queerness. I see Sylvie as an explicit confirmation of Loki's gender fluidity since they are literally the same person with just a nexus event along the same timeline sometime after they were born but before they hit puberty.
Well written. But I must refute you on calling Loki gender fluid, bisexual or even pan sexual. For Loki is just sexual period. Be it in comic or actual Norse lore. If it moves and Loki like it. Loki is gonna fuck it. Loki has no sexual identity because Loki is "Sex". Loki see sexual preferences on an application, writes out all of his fetishes and brands of bondage gear lol.
I don't have disney plus but I've been watching that clip of loki saying he's bi a bunch and it's making my former teen baby gay comic book nerd heart so freakin happy
Okay, but we're talking about the literal God of Trickery, Mischief, and Lies. You have to admit, he has a literally magical gift for telling you what you want to hear.
@@limburgishmapping7166 no, it was also in the episode itself: the file is shown during the episode :) He is also written as Loki Laufney's son and not Loki Odin's son (icelandic naming convention), yet he knowingly called himself Odinson before he died to save Thor 😭 Similarly, Sylvie is named Laufney's daughter, so that is a really cool detail.
I recently started reading the Loki: Agent of Asgard run, and my absolute favorite scene was Loki describing his ability to shapeshift, taking her feminine form in the next panel and saying "I can always turn into me." Followed by Odin later referring to his children as, "my son, my daughter, my child who is both. I love you all, and am deeply proud." As a recently out nonbinary person with a very supportive mother, I felt amazing reading it. Edit: I was like ten minutes into the video when I initially commented
@@saranaila5905 unfortunately, not really. Which is honestly the worst thing about comics in general. Though I'm several chapters in and I'm still enjoying it a lot despite the occasional confusion.
@@billciphergirl6049 Hard to say, I didn't catch up, myself. At least the Axis event, where the heroes and villains swap morals. But that only matters a few issues in and I never read the event. That's where I left the run, because Comixology changed to become unusable
LOL... He's trans (when he shapeshifts), gender-fluid, and bisexual. It was even referenced in the first episode when someone called him "ma'am" and another person called him "sir", and he was quite nonchalant about both. 😌
Just remember, loki is pansexual, gender fluid, and got knocked up by a horse, and birthed a horse with 8 legs. Can’t imagine why they left that out of the comics
That lucky horseshoe ain't for nothin', I guess! Hahaha! -- There had to have been Norse Horse humor there. Uh, a horse would be too big for, uh...either way...uh...yeah, never mind.... So I'm guessing there were a lot of Norse horsemen with a weird sense of humor, there. Or else they were very, very lonely. I mean, it does get cold up north, so.... Hahaha.
What goat? Now I have to find out. Are we talking Pan getting frisky with Loki? Or that naughty Billy Goat who was hassled by the Troll under the bridge? Or did he just get his goat on? ...Yup, cold and lonesome that far up north, sounds like.
So Loki has 6++ children with two women, human men, one horse and a witch's heart. The children include humans, gods, jotunn, animals and monsters. Loki (male) + Sigyn (his wife) -> Vali & Narfi Loki (male) + Angrboða (a giantess) -> Hel, Fenrir, and Jörmungandr. Loki (female) + Svaðilfari (the horse) -> Sleipnir Loki's 8 years of human adventures (female) -> unknown kids Loki (female) + witch's heart -> monsters. Wonderful video as always!
It's probably intentional but the fact that he lost his queer coded garments when he is forced to join a fascist group is very revealing too me. Like if he was forced to hide his identity even his power which help the queer coding has been taken away from him. And it's only when he take them back that he is able to survive and go forward
I wonder if there would've been a possibility for him to change back into his familiar Loki garments once he escaped the TVA and had his magic back. I'm just not entirely sure about how his magic works. We've seen him cast illusions, and some of them seem to imply that there's a physical reality to him and his clothes, and that all else is just a visual, non-material illusion, like his cell in Thor: The Dark World. However, his magic seems to be able to produce a physical effect too, like drying his clothes in Roxxcart and producing a warming blanket in the Void that seemed to provide actual warmth. His outfit was destroyed in the first episode, but if he's able to conjure something physical like the blanket, he could theoretically change into some robes after escaping the TVA. Even if it were just an illusion, it would be a character development thing. It would've helped me personally to tie this Loki to his portrayals in the rest of the MCU, because now because of the non-Asgard, 'mundane' outfit, he somehow feels more like Tom Hiddleston playing a human than as the same Loki as the one in chains stealing the Tesseract. Visually though, this does make the season more consistent, and I can understand that from a production perspective.
Oh, for a little helmet tip there: if it hurts cause it's pressing on particular places, you may do better to stick some thin padding to places *next* to where it hurts rather than on the hurtey spots. To kind of spread the weight around without making the helmet actually smaller on your head. Those little self-adhesive Dr. Scholl's pads they sell mostly for old people's shoes/bunions could be about right, really. :)
as a genderfluid disaster myself i think the reason i've fixated on loki so deeply is because he is SO QUEER and SO TRANS. like the first time i ever saw genderfluid rep was alex fierro, loki's amazing transfemme child in magnus chase. i really hope that trough characters like the mcu's loki we can finally have some good queer and especially genderfluid representation.
I dunno if I'm giving you too much hope, but Rick Riordan and Disney or Netflix might team up together to do his other series, including Magnus Chase if Percy Jackson the tv series does good.
It would be interesting to do a deep dive into parenthood in contemporary media. One of the things that really bugged me about what they did to Black Widow in Ultron was state that she felt she was broken because she can't have kids. It seems like there can't be a female character who doesn't have a deep burning desire for children. At the same time, we have lots of superheroes with highly flawed or absent parents, the orphan obsession that pervades folk stories, both western and from other parts of the world. I want a female lead who says 'hell no' to parenthood without it being an overly defensive cover for an underlying desire she can't fulfill. There are so many gender roles that are forced on female characters because how could the character have a 'happy ending' without them.
I would pay to have at least one female character in a big movie that goes "so they took out my uterus but like, hey, i can have sex now all i want, i never wanted kids anyway" But no, the christianity is strong in hollywood, how dare a woman not want kids! How dare imply a woman could like sex! It's like "oh, woes me, i am such a monster for i cannot have kids" is the only idea white straight men in hollywood have. (Age of Ultron was written and directed by Joss Wheadon) You wanna know which marvel movie has groundbreaking parenthood? Ant-Man. Interactions between a girl's biological dad and adopted dad where they aren't antagonists was AMAZING. Not just parenthood, family in general. Nuclear families are such a staple in america, but there's so much more to it, extended families, adopted families, stepsiblings...
@@chadfalardeau5396may I raise you Zeus in swan form knocking up a human woman? Though in that case, technically at least one of the resultant children was heavily involved in the downfall of a kingdom, so suppose some of the parallels are still there
@@chadfalardeau5396 yes, I studied Norse and Germanic myths and legends. At least Hel, Sleipnir, Fenrir, and Jormungandr were all treated (albeit crappily) at a diety/godlike level, rather than being something humans directly could be ambushed by (I've been near swans, and bulls, but never giant wolves, sea serpents, or eight legged horses...)
Sylvie is such an important character to me because I'm a bi woman who is dating a man, and actually seeing that in Marvel, in this character that I already thought was super cool and fun...dang that made me so freaking happy
Okay, Icelander here, I've been hearing the norse mythology stories since kindergarten, and your rendition is by far the best one that I have heard. Hats off, girl 💙
That's what happens when the creator is in a poligomas kinky relationship. He also is involved in the creation of the lie dector. What I'm saying his he put a lot of his beliefs and self into this comic he was given to give girls their own superman like figure.
Hi! I'm a Norse Heathen who specifically follows Loki, and while I know this isn't a huge deal, you absolutely nailed the mythology aspect of Loki. NAILED. Have a great day!
Can we have Thor in the MCU being the very supportive brother who uses the pronouns Loki identities with at any given time. I saw such a wholesome fancomic of that and I just love the idea of Thor being his himbo self while loving/caring for his sibling
The Comics Code Authority thing really puts into perspective the irony of people who defend "the way comics were" while also crying about video game "censorship"
Regarding the so called Anti-SJWs: Everyone is a Social Justice Warrior, some people just shamefully limit their social justice advocacy to the smallest circle that includes them.
The thing about Loki is that I don’t even relate to him that much personality-wise (I mean, I love him, but we’re nothing alike) but I still cling to him as one of the only genderfluid characters I’ve ever been able to find. Whenever I get really dysphoric I find myself reaching for Loki stories. Not even just the Marvel version, but Marvel is one of the queerest representations of him (especially the comics). I didn’t ever really want to hope for explicitly genderqueer rep even in his own show because I know Disney doesn’t usually go there and I sometimes think the breadcrumbs we were actually given are worse than nothing. But I love Sylvie so 🤷🏼 (I just really hope they end up as friends and go bother Thor in Love and Thunder so he has two siblings.)
Maybe I'm weird, but I never assume that anyone has a fixed gender. Even in most media, if you think about it, hardly anyone explicitly declares their own gender. It's typically just inferred through what other characters say.
Hello from the Hallowoods (a podcast) has a gender fluid witch! It’s an ensamble story so they don’t get that much time as if they were the only mc. And there are also some other nb main characters
Oh, I've been waiting for this, it's such a nice way for me to end this week. I love how you point out Loki's villain queer-coding in how he dresses (most of his nemeses are also women, which I think also plays into it). In addition, I had never thought about how they sort of erased his flamboyance by putting him in his khakis and button-down (I'm straight and I guess I was blinded by how good Hiddleston looked in his button-down lol). Now that you mention it, this sartorial queer-coding is also mixed with some classism that I hadn't noticed before. While I had already noticed that he was depicted as a theatrical "upper-class dandy" when he's in human disguises on Earth, especially comparated to his "traditionally masculine" brother Thor, it became really obvious, in hindsight, in Thor Ragnarok in the scene where Thor and Loki go to New York to pick Odin up from the old folks home. Loki is dressed in a head-to-toe black suit ensemble and looked like he walked out of a magazine, while Thor is in a "working class" tatty jean jacket over a faded hoodie, looking like he walked off a construction site. And now, to make Loki a hero in this show, they not only remove remove his queer flamboyance, but also bring him down a peg in the socio-economic ladder by dressing him up as a white-collar worker, more of a middle-class signifier than the upper-class snob he liked to dress himself up as before... Anyway, I think I've veered off-topic, but I loved this analysis! Thank you for this video, Jessie!
This might be giving disney too much credit but.... what if that's intentional, not as in Disney doing that to "straighten up" Loki but the TVA doing it instead. Think about it, they're super gender conforming time fascists, they're literally hunting down a gender divergent variant of Loki by any means necessary including bringing in a more conventional Loki and even then putting him in khakis and a tie instead of his usual androgynous long cut clothes with the occasional scarf. It may be looking too far into it and some wishful thinking but if we're gonna do the queer over analyzing thing I'm gonna go all in. And even then his straight washing khaki outfit has variant written on the back and in response to asking why hes told "so everyone knows what you are". I get that its main text because hes a variant but it sounds a lot like something someone would say to a trans or gay person being forced to stay in the closet, or being outed specifically to be ostracized
@@fangsabre I agree. I don't think Disney gets the credit though. The creative minds working on Loki do. Everything about the TVA design was made to be as much as a soul crushing bureaucracy that limits as much individuality and expression as possible. The only people who got a unique outfit there was the top judge. All of the rest of the analysts were in drab middle class clothing that was nearly all the same and the hunters and minutemen were indistinguishable and didn't even get NAMES. Just numbers. It's entirely thematic to the idea that no one is allowed to make their own choices outside of the sacred timeline and everything is conforming, regimented, and labeled clearly as to their place on the hierarchy.
Loki is such a complex and misunderstood character, and he/they is very relatable. In Norse Mythology he acted like the lawyer of the AESIR, however due to his chaotic nature, some of his deals would backfire on the AESIR. It was notable that in most pagan mythologies the Gods were not bound by male/female categories when it comes to reproduction. Being able to create monsters and transform into forces of nature and animals to impregnate humans and other beings. Athena for example is the "brain daughter" of Zeus, and she's literally a brain daughter cause she's is born from Zeus head, after consuming another goddess. However, after certain monotheistic religions took over, the whole range of what it was possible sexually and in the gender department was reduced. The whole rage of sexual orientation and gender expression was limited to the heteronormative model. So, this obviously followed the demonization of the pagans mythology. And completely forgot the fact, that before the monotheistic religions took over, people where not that close off to the idea of sexual diversity. Loki ends up being so relatable, because even before the transition from pagan to monotheistic, he is an outcast. His male counterparts would also engage into shape shifting foreplay, however Odin is not viewed as gender fluid cause he is supposed to be a warrior, wise, strong and male. his transformations are not being viewed as corrosive to the patriarchy cause he does it to gather knowledge and from ancient times the search from knowledge has been relegated to men, and practicing female magic , it is just for science lol. The same happens with Zeus, giving birth to Athena was just a result to eating too much knowledge, just as if this was just an ancient "no homo". So, the difference with Loki, is something so shallow, as the fact that he liked liked getting into a female dress and not just dabble into gender fluidity, it wasn't just an experiment with him, but part of his nature. It also didn't help that he bother the other AESIR so much, thus he crave attention, and that's why the other deities didn't like him so much. At the end of his life, he feels rejected by his family and also betrayed, and instead of trying to reason with him, his story ends up in tragedy. However, he is not a regular bad guy, he is pretty much a god that dabbles with both good and evil, and I am glad that at least MCU has done that right, and Hiddleston plays him really well, despite being just a fraction of what the original Norse character was.
One of the main problems I have with the Sylvie and Loki ship is the fact that it technically is the same person twice. I mean they have a different personality but it doesn't change the fact that they are Loki variants. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to think that this might be some form of incest or selfcest which isn't something I want to have to think about when it comes to ships.
Disney+ isn’t even being marketed towards China or other anti-gay censorship country. By them stammering and failing to go forth with proper lgbtq+ representation, they are making a clear stance here when it comes to Loki in the MCU, and it doesn’t seem like a good one…
@@joelvoon7697 Point taken. But this enterprise still shouldn’t have to gear itself towards international audiences in the same way cinematic releases often do, due to it being a streaming platform that is massively popular amongst more inclusive demographics. Straight washing, or at the very least seemingly “straightening up” a historically queer character should not be seen as acceptable.
Not to mention Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, Daredevil and such were all once MCU canon, that didn't exactly end well. If Disney really wants to own the so called badge of inclusion then let's see it on a real movie screen, not on a streaming service.
it's certainly a hell of a dress P.S. When me and my friend, both aro ace, discussed loki, we came to the common headcanon of him being bi aro but not ace. But honestly, taking just the quote from the episode, he could be bi/pan asexual, not necessarily bisexual or pansexual. Yeah, like they'd give us bi ace rep in Loki&Hiddleston... *sighs* Still, could be ace.
As Grey-A i'm running with that idea too. I flip between seeing him as biromantic ace and bisexual aro (which may or may not be a result of my personal orientation) but the point is there is still room for it on screen, and in this whatever one he isn't Sylvie is because that scene heavily implied that bi-ness applies to both of them wether or not you see them as technically the same individual.
I feel like Jessie-Loki is trying to bring out the creep commenter in me. But I resist you this time as well. Anyway the twins are looking nice… well shit
This was a fascinating deep dive into Loki's presentation. It's interesting when specific characters through the decades attract LGBT+ audiences despite differences in their portrayals (also wow your outfits in this are incredible. You really pull off every style)
i haven't read much old wonder woman but i have seen professor marston and the wonder women and i agree that there probably was plenty of bondage in wonder woman.
Yes absolutely please do more deep dives like this! I love how you've used the lens of the different incarnations to quickly introduce a lot of the restrictions on queer stories over time, which is a contextual element that's easy to forget.
"As a young pre out trans kid I did the exact same thing" I just got the greatest image of baby Jessie at the wedding looking absolutely radiant while MCU Thor flies around murdering people.
I'm gonna say Pansexual. Which isn't to say he has had sex with Pan, or impersonating Pan to play slap, and tickle with Nymphs, but I wouldn't rule it out, either.
"Pan entered from the back door, as Greeks are wont to do. [recalled from memory]" from. "Jitterbug Perfume" Tom Robbins, his best book IMHO. Pansexuality means resembling the sexuality of Pan, the god of back doors. And you got the etymology of satyre right too!
Does No One Else Think It's Weird That To "Straighten" Loki Out, The Straights Decided To Pair Him With Sylvie Who Is A Different Version Of Him-??? Sylvie is such a good character but i think their love is a bit... strange. If he was learning to love himself by finally having a friend would be one thing... but this seems different...
An interesting thing about these anti sjw dudebros who are mad about this iteration of Loki having aspects to him they don’t favour and you bringing up if they’ve read Norse mythology since these aspects are also present there, it’s like ... they probably haven’t and don’t care because they already have a certain image of Norse mythology in their head. I know a lot of white supremacist in the US really idealise viking culture because of its often simplified aggressive and masculine nature (not saying all anti sjw ppl are white supremacists, but you know, there’s a pipeline). I am from Denmark and it’s so weird for me to see because I don’t see any white supremacist idealising vikings here (not saying it doesn’t exist, I just haven’t seen them do it in the same way as in the US. In high school in social studies we discussed how white supremacists in the US idealise viking culture like it’s so prevalent amongst the US crowd that we are becoming this aware of it over here). I think the reason I don’t see it as often is because we study the vikings in history class here and read Norse mythology in religion class from when we are children. Thus, we generally know the gender dynamics in the viking culture as well as in Norse mythology were much more complicated and nuanced. That’s why I think this whole Loki situation has so many anti sjw people riled up. It doesn’t fit their perception of “the old days” they’ve idealised in their head and it doesn’t fit their romanticised image of the vikings they want back, so they feel threatened. The thing is, the image they have in their heads is not accurate to begin with. They’re mad for nothing. You highlighted some really good aspects of the mythology to support this argument and I think paired with the fact that these people are likely into superheroes because they also fall into displaying aggressive and toxic masculinity like this past where “men were men” and “women were women” that they so idealise (even though as you said people thought superheroes were “too gay” before anyway akdkekdj) it makes for a very exhausting cocktail
White supremacists idealizing "viking" and greek culture is ridiculous and hilarious (and awful and pathetic). Vikings had nice gender equality, traded and accepted african sailors, had poetry picnics and had sexual acceptance While Greeks, specifically Spartans were all gay and NOT WHITE and women had rights for that time period. It's similar with nazis in america and germany. Germany actually teaches history and what happened while america's "education" system is trash.
I'm Swedish and I know of both Swedish and Norwegian white supremacists who cling to Norse mythology as being "manly" and "the good old days", but they are the kind of people who have been living inside a bubble and did not pay attention in school. They have probably been consuming too much American media/propaganda.
@@EasterWitch European white supremacists who are influenced by american white supremacist media that appropriates european (and other foreign) cultures. And all these americans are descendants of europeans if you go even farther. what a back and forth lol
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Greeks and spartans where europeans. I dont know what your definiton of white is but they are definetely a part of the european people groups.
I collected X-Men as a kid, but even I knew about Loki's queer gender/sexuality. As soon as Loki was introduced into the MCU, I loved him. Hiddleston has done him so much justice and many of the best scenes in all the movies involve him. I'm loving the show and will be sad when it's over.
Mid way through latest episode of Loki I was screaming hug!!! At end when everyone finally hugged I cheered. Sylvie talking about being alone and not knowing how to react/act. Omg. The feels. I cried I felt so seen. I know so very totally off topic but man. It all was so good. She is my hero
God of War is surprisingly accurate to actual mythology. Loki's father in norse mythology is very unknown. He is a giant named Fárbauti (meaning dangerous striker/angry striker/hostile/dangerous), and if that doesn't fit Kratos I don't know what does.
Several positive points about the series I feel were missed: Möbius tells Loki that he can be anything he wants to be in case anyone has told him different. The Loki Sylvie “love affair” could also be framed as self love hinted at by denials of it being a romance. (Loki literally says she’s awesome before the extreme branch event, and Sylvie tells Loki he has the power of enchantment because they are the same, and Loki says “we are more powerful than we imagine” after witnessing Classic Loki’s display of power). Many speculate Sylvie is plucked as a variant from the timeline is because she dared to dream of herself a hero, and might have and may still yet succeed. There’s also a general theme of striving toward change of self and tearing a system of oppression down. If Möbius isn’t Loki’s shipmate, at least he’ll help “burn it all down” and he thanks Loki for the spark. Maybe I’d like to see the glass as half full as far as the show being a metaphor for grappling toward better representation and acceptance. I wasn’t put off by Loki’s costuming. The TVA imagery is fascist, militant, plus noir detective and hence the costuming is masculine. There are numerous female characters in powerful positions, and I don’t recall any in a dress. (Renslayer’s jacket is femininely tailored and the female hunters have feminized breast plates, but this is subtle). Hunter B-15’s role was written as male, but they cast a women to great effect. Seems a fairly feminist representation and gender and queer neutral given these are uniforms within a don’t ask don’t tell framework. They may still fall on their face depending on who’s the true hero or villain of the series, but I have to appreciate Disney’s Loki-like attempt- even if it fails in the end.
I loved this. Loki had been my favourite character since the first Thor movie came out. Not only was he a queercoded villain but his story in the movie is fundamentally a queer one. Despite his status he struggles to fit in and is always a bit of an outsider despite living in Asgard all his life. Then he discovers something about himself that the surrounding society views as monstrous and is unable to accept it. You can't convince me that is not a fundamentally queer experience.
it could be argued that when these myths were first spoken that our medical gender reassignment surgery would seem like magic to them. To me as a cis man it still also seems kinda magical that people can change who they are on the outside to fit their true self even today
Neat video. There is definitely something wider to be said about tricksters in mythology as often playing with concepts of gender and the role of such stories in our understanding of concepts etc.
makes me wonder about medieval court jesters (or even today's stand up comedians) who were allowed to make criticisms of the king and society that no one else could, because they "played the fool."
31:40 i feel like a trans woman presenting masculine and saying she enjous it is the ultimate power move. Such a flex. Jessie has single handedly destroyed the gender binary, everyone go home.
I remember reading Agent of Asgard (I began paying attention to Loki after discovering Angela) and seeing Loki change into Lady Loki, a fox and his male form and saying "It's still me" that along with the heartfelt way Odin refers to his children was my first introduction to the concept of non-binary or gender-fluid; I read the comic easily understood what they were talking about and moved on...then discovered the whole "discourse" in the real world...
I would absolutely love more history/fiction fusion videos! I'm not even watching the Loki show (yet?) but I loved seeing the different iterations go from mythology -> comics -> movies -> TV, bringing in various cultural norms along the way.
This was wonderfully done and really fascinating. I adore mythology and this was both informative and entertaining. You also made a great point about magic typically being associated with the divine feminine across cultures and mythologies.
Super wonderful video! Although I've never watched the show, I've heard a lot about it and I think my personal theory on why people (including me) dislike Loki x Sylvie is mainly due to the weird aspect of them both being a "Loki," rather than bi-erasure, but it could also definitely be unintentional (or even intentional) bi-erasure. Also the fact that I think Mobius and Loki have better chemistry imo. That's just my thoughts on it though!
MCU: "Look at us being so LGBTQ friendly. We've got the gay guy in Endgame, and Loki, and, um, Valkyrie. Once Love & Thunder comes out." Arrowverse: *glares in Mister Terrific, Nia Nal. Capt. Singh, Citizen Cold, XS, Pied Piper, Constantine, Sara Lance, Ava Sharpe, 2 Batwomen, The Ray, Alex Danvers, Julia Pennyworth, Maggie Sawyer, and Kelly Olsen.*
People getting of worked up about Loki getting a ( supposedly) more masc/straight-ish costume with the suit and tie: You did notice, did you not, that they had him literally naked and in a collar, right? How much more queer do you want?!?
@@chadfalardeau5396 not really. He's always been the cartoon villain but now he is an anti-villain at the moment. He may become an anti-hero but hasn't yet.
Oh, myyyy! Seems your Loki cosplay owes a bit of inspiration to Elvira, Mistress of the Dark...talk about "burdened with glorious purpose" ! 😍🥰 Also: Loki may be a switch, but he leans more heavily towards brat!
Thankfully, Loki is still my favorite character/real mythology from the past 10 years. Even though I’ve been researching him for the past couple of years, I’m happy that he is Pansexual or bisexual. Since, there are still some of us that still questioning our sexuality, I definitely don’t mind being neither straight or bi. With Loki, it made me really ease out on what my own sexuality is, and just accept myself. Hence on why I still love Loki, as a whole no matter what.
I'm so torn between being mad that Loki doesn't pair himself with Mobius or any other character that would break the Disney mold and at the same time thinking it's actually perfectly Loki for him to pick what is essentially himself as a romantic interest.
I recently came out as genderfluid, and it would be so nice to have explicit representation of a genderfluid character like, experiencing changes in gender identity? Even if it isn't deeply explored, and just the character changes gender presentation and pronouns several times and looks amazing while doing so, it would be nice to have a character to relate to. I just watched Loki because "yay genderfluid representation," but the fact that it was written on a form that Loki's sex is fluid isn't really representation...
On the Loki show attire for the main Loki variant, I started to raise my hand to say, but wait the the TVA took Loki’s chosen attire and made him dress in that hideous shirt and tie because they’re making them conform. But then I lowered my hand because when Loki had a choice in the Void, the shirt and tie stayed. Missed opportunity. Hand back down. Great vid to do some reflection on. Thanks for all this awesome work!
your outfits (especially the 2nd one) are all amazing, i loved the outro/credits, and "divergent of neuro" had me cackling!! also, as someone who's genderqueer, this whole video was awesome and it made me feel less alone 💖💕
Brilliant explication of Loki in the sagas (from what little we have!) and Loki in comics and film❣️ it is frustrating how Disney ( and Hollywood) hesitate to acknowledge the LGBTQ community while using all the talent they can!! Great job Jessie🥰
41:48 THIS. I was downvoted to hell for bringing this up on reddit. I, as a bisexual myself, just wanna clarify that bisexuals in heterosexual relationships are valid. All kinds bisexuals are valid no matter who your preference is and deserve all the love and support from the lgbtq+ community. But this is DISNEY we're talking about. I was so glad to hear Loki being confirmed to be bi only for the Sylki relationship to be pushed more in the recent episodes (yeah yeah i get that its in-character for him but cmon he has chemistry with both Mobi and Sylvie). I'm gonna be honest i was more okay with Loki (the show) not having any romantic subplot at all but then they introduced the idea of love and shit halfway through the show so it made me think, "well shit i wonder how are they gonna deal with this" and then ep 4 came which made me feel like that one line was just made for headlines. I think it's my bad as an audience member for getting my hopes up since that revelation. Of course its Disney, did i seriously think id get explicit queer representation in their property. Not saying that it ruined the show for me, all the marvel series so far are entertaining. But i do hope it doesn't fall for the mediocre/disappointing finale curse because from all the reviews ive seen, its kinda becoming a pattern. those are my thoughts so far, im sorry if it seems like a jumbled mess to read
Why do they call him Laufeyson when Laufey in mythology was the "mom", right? edit, ok, just looked it up on wikipedia, that Loki is sometimes called by a matronymic instead of by the usual patronymic name
@@juliusroman8616 last names came about as way to identify one "John" or "Mary" from another as villages got bigger. The original last names came from job titles and who the parents were. So John the baker became John Baker, and Jack, Jame's son became Jack Jameson. Loki being having the last name he does is completely within how last names developed.
What I'd seen about last names for Norse, Norwegian, Swedish, maybe Danish and Icelandic: It's common to give a last name as (father's name) + (-son or -daughter), so you could be Olafsson or Olafsdaughter (the native language form of son or daughter, not English, of course). -- But I would guess that if the father was not known or the mother was more famous / important, a child might get the mother's name + son or daughter as their last name. Not sure if this is usual custom there, but works for head-canon, it makes sense. However,there's be a big difference in being named because your mother was famous, important, versus the father was not known or his name had to be hidden because of inconvenient, scandalous reasons. There ya go, overthinking it. ;)
Loki's mom Laufey is a goddess and his father is a frost giant. She outranks him therefore her name can get passed on. In Norse cultures there was equality and you could totally do that. When they made the marvel version they made Laufey male because a woman outranking a man wouldn't work. Thank you western cultures.
What makes this even better is that he is a bi person who goes by he pronouns and sometimes identifies as a man. Bi people (especially those identifying as men/he or non-binary) are extremely few compared to other LGBTQ+ identities. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to find one bi boy icon in fiction as a non-binary person myself. This is something that can't be overlooked or ignored. I'm grateful myself because Loki is one of my favorite characters. I only hope that his bisexuality doesn't go ignored or erased. Not just by Disney but by the public themselves.
I kept wondering though throughout this: is the entire tv arc a meta narrative of breaking the Queer punishment concept itself? The central idea seems to be that some central power in the universe thinks Loki must die because of who Loki *is* and yet the central aspect of Loki's is that Loki's are survivors. Kid Loki literally said it, "Anytime one of us tries to improve themselves we're sent here to die." Seems very reminiscent of pushback against queer rights and narratives today.
For all the discussion of orientation and gender, we still have jack all in the way of mainstream discourse of interest in more or less than one other person.
That anti sjw saying "what's the point of that" after the horse thing made me scream laugh. IDK what's the point of any myth. What's the point of religion. What's the point of having children. What's the point of a horse. Like i don't know what specifically he's asking but none of it can be answered quickly in a little livestream convo with your friends who clearly don't have tons of knowledge on any of these subjects
That black dress is stunning on you and I need to find it!!! As a side note, I absolutely adore that you highlighted how the queer coding shiften to more cis-het the moment Loki became the main character. There would be some painful stuff to unpack about how Loki entered the fantasies of the masses just after Joss Whedon, as the abuser he is, coded him like he did with Spike with the "mewling quim" which led to Comicon 2013 and the perpetration of the trope "I can change my beloved" cause "all girls love bad boys". It saddens me we don't talk about these tropes the way we internalised them as "romantic" cause the patriarchy always had an interest making abuse and darkness pass for such. Loki is such a quintessential exemplification of that especially looking at how the fandom basically molded him into its own thing.
As a Pagan and queer I feel that the myths aren't static and modern interpretations of mythology are valid and keep the stories and relationships with the Gods alive.
I have a project that I have been trying to work through for months now. Everytime I play this video in the backgound I end up trying to work on some other more mundane housework. I cannot tell you how many times you've just saved us, sharing beauty to the powerless that you so kindly invite to help. Thank you for helping me find inner peace...roasty as it might be; You know how to calm us all down.
As a fluid person myself, Loki as a character from mythology helped me realise just how real that option was, to which I only got through Loki the MCU character (also Loki: Agent of Asgard seems to be an unknown with most people I talk comics with so THANK YOU for including it here) so it's always probably going to be my favourite, but yeah, at this point I wasn't even sure it's worth it to pirate the episodes as to avoid disappointment. I might actually check it out after this video, though, so thank you for that :3
Fantastic exploration both in topic and costume choices!! Can tell you've stepped up your editing game too!! Thank you for all you do, for being a bright light in this crazy world!! LOVE!!!🌈😄⭐🖖🏼🎶🙏🏼🤟🏼💥
and did some of his greatest feats with it. Of course there's no one Norse belief and views on that fact have varied through out the history. There's a later myth of Loki getting in an insult fight with... well everyone and had the balls to bring that up that "shame" himself. Odin tried to shame Loki for committing ergi (unmanliness) and giving birth *as a woman* .Loki turned that around and brought up Odin learning drumming from witches and being dressed as one. practicing seidh was basically synomous with ergi during middle ages but Loki also explicitly accused Odin of ergi right back at him. Unmanliness being one of the insults you could kill someone over. The history of manliness and queerness of the norse is all very interesting
The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/jessiegender07211
loved your video as always.
@@oliviawolcott8351 thank you!
You said a small line, "someone could be static on their gender for years and years and still be genderfluid." That line meant a lot to me. I shift maybe once or twice a month, and oftentimes I struggle with impostor syndrome on whether or not I'm genderfluid. So thank you :)
Off topic, but thank you for reminding me to watch The Celluloid Closet again :)
Did you actually stab your foot? Tell me there was a table there lol
Asgard had a Rainbow Bridge, even after June.
OMG yes haha. The pride bridge.
The iconic bi frost. 💜💙💖
@@JessieGender1 that’s not the name at all. How dare y’all insult light thru water
LoL real funny but the Rainbow Bridge isn't a Gay Symbol. Neither is anything rainbow related in Mythology because Mythology is shaped by the Mystical Significance of Something and in many cultures Rainbows have huge mystical significance.
@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme yeah, but in the Modern Era the Rainbow is a symbol that represents us, so by proxy the LGBTQ+ Community have claimed Asgard. Sorry I don't make the rules.
The loki from the main MCU canon is only revealed as “Sex-fluid” due to his transformation abilities. The straightening-up of Loki’s aesthetics by putting him in Khakis, and pairing him with an alternative timeline version of himself as a girl is really a disservice to queer and trans representation it seems. I just really wish we’d get more than just the tacit deniability of queer representation, queer baiting, and queer coding we are oh so used to by DisneyTM…
Is selfcest ok? Disney says yes
Didn't the director say it wasn't romantic though?
@@queer-ios3155 I've been following this because I'm a trashy shipper, but the director only said this after the release of episode 3 when people were apparently weirded out by the dynamic, and then reversed course after episode 4. It's been more or less confirmed by the director and the head writer, Michael Waldron. We'll see what the last episode will bring us, I guess.
And lets not even talk how it was confirmed, in-show, that Sylvie being a female Loki is apparently so unique that not a single variant Loki has seen one before. Loki (tragically) ain't genderfluid in the MCU and it's been made undeniable now.
@@andie.3632 That's not even remotely the case. Just because three characters (who speak mammalian) in a room haven't experienced it, in no way indicates that their POVs are more generally true. Even if that's what the writers intended, there isn't anything "undeniable" about it.
I think it's also important to note that the show established that Loki was gender-fluid and bisexual and this was natural to his Loki-ness, and also that he is the kind of guy to fall in love with a variant of himself partially because his narcissism.
But then they introduce a whole void of several new Loki characters, all apparently cisgender men, and there wasn't an ounce of romantic or sexual tension between any of these characters. They establish he's bisexual and would love himself, and then they have many versions of him but he only loves the female version. Their heteronormativity is overwhelming in this show.
I honestly think they just didn't make that connection, they made him bi, gender-fluid, and self-loving but didn't think any further about the implications of it, so when he meets other male versions of himself he doesn't flirt with them (and they don't flirt or have apparent relations with each other, in case anyone uses the argument that out Loki was already taken with Sylvie). Also, the other male Loki characters are openly disturbed by the idea that there may be a feminine Loki, which negates the gender-fluidity and further makes the idea that Sylvie is a woman or Loki is gender-fluid is not normative of a Loki (also he honestly probably should have been offended by that in some capacity, they basically were openly disgusted by non-cisnormative male Lokis and he was just okay with that).
Furthermore, it feels weird that there are basically zero intersectional Lokis.
Imagine you're a poc and you're brought into a multiverse full of other versions of you and they all have a gimmick compared to one another, but you're the ONLY version of yourself that is a person of colour, and the rest are all white. There's old white you, white you, young white you, female white you, president white you, hippie white you, and bunch more wacky yous that are all white, and you're apparently the only version of yourself that's a person of colour, that's your variation, your deviation. The conclusion of that would be that you're originally, inherently, or supposed to be white. That would really fuck with you. There's no poc hippy you, no poc female you, not even a you from any other race besides white, you're biggest defining feature to separate you from other yous is that your the one that isn't white. Same for if your a woman and your turn up and all the other yous are male, even the crocodile version of you goes by he/him, your womanhood is not supposed to have happened. That's kinda really fucked.
So I 100% agree with your point about there being no sexual tension between any of the other Loki variants in the Void, and I'd just chalk that one up to the suits at Disney being stupid, greedy mollusks who care too much about the bizarre hang-ups of the MCU's more conservative fans, even though those people are already pissed off about the absolute-bare-minimum representation we LGBTQ+ people now have in the franchise (just like when conservative Star Trek fans got mad about Jadzia kissing a woman, apparently totally unaware that there would have been a full-on gay romance in DS9 if not for studio interference). Seems to me like we need to shift the Overton window on this issue. Let's all start demanding a graphic gay sex scene in the next Pixar movie!
As for your second point, I'd like to offer a lukewarm defense based on the fact that the "Sacred Timeline" protected by the TVA is one in which Loki is an adult cis white male, so it's probably statistically less likely for there to be variants who are too different from that, since the TVA would be doing everything in its power to prune timelines where the conditions allowed for other Lokis to be born. Thus we get an adult cis white female variant, an adult cis black male, a young cis white male, etc., each with only one or two attributes changed at a time. That being said, the very existence of alligator Loki does indicate that the TVA sometimes misses fairly significant branches (Were they ALL alligators in that timeline?!), which is why this is only a lukewarm defense and it probably all traces back to the whole stupid, greedy mollusks thing.
This is really well said.
I actually think the reason Loki didn't flirt with any of his other variants is because he hadn't really bonded with them. He didn't start flirting with Sylvie until he had chased her, fought her twice, argued with her, tried to trick her, had a laugh at her expense, and then managed to pull off a "plan" with her and then had some friendly banter.
I would argue that you don't see the other Loki's having relationships with each other because the 4 we have any time to get to know are:
1. A child (off the table for the adults and unlikely to crush on men in their 40s)
2. An alligator who is also a child based on the size
3. A person who spend thousands of years in self imposed isolation and meditation after trying his hand at heroism to disastrous results. While lonely, pessimistic, and self loathing, he seems to have gotten rid of most of his narcissism
4. A braggart who is a Loki who is at a spot in his life where he is super narcissistic possibly to the point of really not considering even other Loki's worthy of his regard and was biding his time to betray the group he was with.
Note that originally the Loki we follow basically regards other possible versions of himself as inferior by default. It actually takes a lot of character growth to get that Loki to a spot where he allows himself to develop respect for other people including Sylvie and by being able to respect her to actually respect himself.
I did think I saw a woman variant in President Loki's crew as well as an Asian variant. But really, what it might mean that there aren't that many non white non male presenting Loki variants could be that on the sacred timeline Loki spends the most time feeling comfortable in that body format or the sacred timeline is curated to give Loki a complex that makes them feel uncomfortable changing forms to other skin tones or genders frequently or for long periods of time. Less time in other forms means less chances to step off the predetermined path. So it is entirely likely that the Loki we follow spent some years as a little girl and Sylvie's nexus event was actually her coming to terms with being more comfortable in how she was different from others over time after her parents told her she was adopted. Or maybe her nexus event was she decided she was going to be primarily female in order to pursue being a Valkyrie.
I am, however, disappointed in the lack of Shape shifting from any of the Loki Variants. But Disney isn't anyone's friends, they are a giant soulless corporation that pretends to have a soul because that is part of their brand that makes them money. I knew going in, that there was a large chance they would straight out ignore all of Loki's queerness. I see Sylvie as an explicit confirmation of Loki's gender fluidity since they are literally the same person with just a nexus event along the same timeline sometime after they were born but before they hit puberty.
Well written. But I must refute you on calling Loki gender fluid, bisexual or even pan sexual.
For Loki is just sexual period. Be it in comic or actual Norse lore. If it moves and Loki like it. Loki is gonna fuck it. Loki has no sexual identity because Loki is "Sex".
Loki see sexual preferences on an application, writes out all of his fetishes and brands of bondage gear lol.
@@LC-sc3en Nah...Loki would definitely do himself regardless of the prefaces lol. But it's Disney, and they can't let that happen lol.
I don't have disney plus but I've been watching that clip of loki saying he's bi a bunch and it's making my former teen baby gay comic book nerd heart so freakin happy
He has also been confirmed as genderfluid in the TVA files of the series Loki.
Okay, but we're talking about the literal God of Trickery, Mischief, and Lies. You have to admit, he has a literally magical gift for telling you what you want to hear.
I suggest getting it, if you can. Mandalorian, WandaVision, and Loki are all fantastically phenomenal TV shows.
@@limburgishmapping7166 no, it was also in the episode itself: the file is shown during the episode :) He is also written as Loki Laufney's son and not Loki Odin's son (icelandic naming convention), yet he knowingly called himself Odinson before he died to save Thor 😭
Similarly, Sylvie is named Laufney's daughter, so that is a really cool detail.
@@Call-me-Al I've edited my comment.
I recently started reading the Loki: Agent of Asgard run, and my absolute favorite scene was Loki describing his ability to shapeshift, taking her feminine form in the next panel and saying "I can always turn into me." Followed by Odin later referring to his children as, "my son, my daughter, my child who is both. I love you all, and am deeply proud." As a recently out nonbinary person with a very supportive mother, I felt amazing reading it.
Edit: I was like ten minutes into the video when I initially commented
Can I read loki :agent of asgard without reading anything before it?
@@saranaila5905 unfortunately, not really. Which is honestly the worst thing about comics in general. Though I'm several chapters in and I'm still enjoying it a lot despite the occasional confusion.
the last part is perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
@@Dracosfire14 what do you have to read before it? I'm trying to get into the marvel comics but I I ok not know where to start
@@billciphergirl6049 Hard to say, I didn't catch up, myself. At least the Axis event, where the heroes and villains swap morals. But that only matters a few issues in and I never read the event. That's where I left the run, because Comixology changed to become unusable
to quote other youtube commentators:
Loki:
sex: yes
gender: yes
sexual orientation: yes
haaha yes.
LOL... He's trans (when he shapeshifts), gender-fluid, and bisexual.
It was even referenced in the first episode when someone called him "ma'am" and another person called him "sir", and he was quite nonchalant about both. 😌
The meme I saw suggested Loki's gender is mischief, which also works :P
@Steamed Hams LOL... appropriate.
Spiecies? Yes, that too.......
Just remember, loki is pansexual, gender fluid, and got knocked up by a horse, and birthed a horse with 8 legs.
Can’t imagine why they left that out of the comics
Or the thing with the goat.
That lucky horseshoe ain't for nothin', I guess! Hahaha! -- There had to have been Norse Horse humor there. Uh, a horse would be too big for, uh...either way...uh...yeah, never mind.... So I'm guessing there were a lot of Norse horsemen with a weird sense of humor, there. Or else they were very, very lonely. I mean, it does get cold up north, so.... Hahaha.
@@scouttyra "Thing with the goat?" _quick check_ "Oh. _that_ thing with the goat. How do I keep forgetting about that goat?"
What goat? Now I have to find out. Are we talking Pan getting frisky with Loki? Or that naughty Billy Goat who was hassled by the Troll under the bridge? Or did he just get his goat on? ...Yup, cold and lonesome that far up north, sounds like.
@@benw9949 Pretty sure it's the time he made Skadi laugh.
So Loki has 6++ children with two women, human men, one horse and a witch's heart. The children include humans, gods, jotunn, animals and monsters.
Loki (male) + Sigyn (his wife) -> Vali & Narfi
Loki (male) + Angrboða (a giantess) -> Hel, Fenrir, and Jörmungandr.
Loki (female) + Svaðilfari (the horse) -> Sleipnir
Loki's 8 years of human adventures (female) -> unknown kids
Loki (female) + witch's heart -> monsters.
Wonderful video as always!
I know they are probably really serious names, but come on.... Narfi? NARFi? LOL Who let Pinky name the child!
@@lorenzwinterhoff8049 it's also written as Narvi
The name is only funny until the moment he is dissembowled by his brother because of Odin so his intestines can be used to chain his father.
@@erikrungemadsen2081 Fair.
@@lorenzwinterhoff8049 There's thousands of languages on the planet, there's million of words, there's going to be overlap. :P
Jessie is a Loki variant?
Can't say i'm suprised
Hehehe
I did not see that one coming, but it makes senses now 😜
TVA incoming!
[Gender-Gator Noises Intensify]
is now a head cannon of mine, truly
It's probably intentional but the fact that he lost his queer coded garments when he is forced to join a fascist group is very revealing too me. Like if he was forced to hide his identity even his power which help the queer coding has been taken away from him. And it's only when he take them back that he is able to survive and go forward
I like this interpretation! I really hope we get to see more shapeshifting and different clothes in the next season.
I wonder if there would've been a possibility for him to change back into his familiar Loki garments once he escaped the TVA and had his magic back. I'm just not entirely sure about how his magic works.
We've seen him cast illusions, and some of them seem to imply that there's a physical reality to him and his clothes, and that all else is just a visual, non-material illusion, like his cell in Thor: The Dark World. However, his magic seems to be able to produce a physical effect too, like drying his clothes in Roxxcart and producing a warming blanket in the Void that seemed to provide actual warmth.
His outfit was destroyed in the first episode, but if he's able to conjure something physical like the blanket, he could theoretically change into some robes after escaping the TVA. Even if it were just an illusion, it would be a character development thing.
It would've helped me personally to tie this Loki to his portrayals in the rest of the MCU, because now because of the non-Asgard, 'mundane' outfit, he somehow feels more like Tom Hiddleston playing a human than as the same Loki as the one in chains stealing the Tesseract.
Visually though, this does make the season more consistent, and I can understand that from a production perspective.
"This is dangerous! I shouldn't do this!" She said as she swung the knife madly like a crazy woman constantly.
I only stabbed myself 3 times (she says holding up her two remaining fingers)
Jessie: *Holds Knife.*
Me: ANXIETY RISING! :P ;)
Yeah, I confess I started scanning her skin for wounds when the knife came out 🤣 Glad you're (mostly) unscathed Jessie!
Oh, for a little helmet tip there: if it hurts cause it's pressing on particular places, you may do better to stick some thin padding to places *next* to where it hurts rather than on the hurtey spots. To kind of spread the weight around without making the helmet actually smaller on your head. Those little self-adhesive Dr. Scholl's pads they sell mostly for old people's shoes/bunions could be about right, really. :)
Lamb’s wool that is marketed for foot care also really helps. It’s also marvelous for absorbing sweat when wearing a heavier costume.
as a genderfluid disaster myself i think the reason i've fixated on loki so deeply is because he is SO QUEER and SO TRANS. like the first time i ever saw genderfluid rep was alex fierro, loki's amazing transfemme child in magnus chase. i really hope that trough characters like the mcu's loki we can finally have some good queer and especially genderfluid representation.
oh i love Alex they were such a cool character
Magnus Chase?
I dunno if I'm giving you too much hope, but Rick Riordan and Disney or Netflix might team up together to do his other series, including Magnus Chase if Percy Jackson the tv series does good.
Please don't use the G word and the Q word as synonymous. Only the Q word applies here.
@@oliviawolcott8351 Books written by Rick Riordan.
It would be interesting to do a deep dive into parenthood in contemporary media. One of the things that really bugged me about what they did to Black Widow in Ultron was state that she felt she was broken because she can't have kids. It seems like there can't be a female character who doesn't have a deep burning desire for children. At the same time, we have lots of superheroes with highly flawed or absent parents, the orphan obsession that pervades folk stories, both western and from other parts of the world. I want a female lead who says 'hell no' to parenthood without it being an overly defensive cover for an underlying desire she can't fulfill. There are so many gender roles that are forced on female characters because how could the character have a 'happy ending' without them.
I would pay to have at least one female character in a big movie that goes "so they took out my uterus but like, hey, i can have sex now all i want, i never wanted kids anyway"
But no, the christianity is strong in hollywood, how dare a woman not want kids! How dare imply a woman could like sex!
It's like "oh, woes me, i am such a monster for i cannot have kids" is the only idea white straight men in hollywood have. (Age of Ultron was written and directed by Joss Wheadon)
You wanna know which marvel movie has groundbreaking parenthood? Ant-Man. Interactions between a girl's biological dad and adopted dad where they aren't antagonists was AMAZING.
Not just parenthood, family in general. Nuclear families are such a staple in america, but there's so much more to it, extended families, adopted families, stepsiblings...
YES!!
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 I think Yelena said a variation of that in Black Widow (2021)
"Odin rides what is essentially his nephew into battle"
...I... Have never really thought about it that way. Thanks. I think?
Mythology is weird, man
Norse mythology is more messed up than Greco-Roman
@@chadfalardeau5396may I raise you Zeus in swan form knocking up a human woman? Though in that case, technically at least one of the resultant children was heavily involved in the downfall of a kingdom, so suppose some of the parallels are still there
@@bellablue5285 Loki gave birth to an 8 legged horse, a giant wolf and a giant sea serpent
@@chadfalardeau5396 yes, I studied Norse and Germanic myths and legends. At least Hel, Sleipnir, Fenrir, and Jormungandr were all treated (albeit crappily) at a diety/godlike level, rather than being something humans directly could be ambushed by (I've been near swans, and bulls, but never giant wolves, sea serpents, or eight legged horses...)
Sylvie is such an important character to me because I'm a bi woman who is dating a man, and actually seeing that in Marvel, in this character that I already thought was super cool and fun...dang that made me so freaking happy
Okay, Icelander here, I've been hearing the norse mythology stories since kindergarten, and your rendition is by far the best one that I have heard. Hats off, girl 💙
"Did you see the comic? The bondage was very much text."
LOL
That's what happens when the creator is in a poligomas kinky relationship. He also is involved in the creation of the lie dector. What I'm saying his he put a lot of his beliefs and self into this comic he was given to give girls their own superman like figure.
A huge part of MCU Loki's appeal is Tom Huddleston's charisma and charm
Hi! I'm a Norse Heathen who specifically follows Loki, and while I know this isn't a huge deal, you absolutely nailed the mythology aspect of Loki. NAILED. Have a great day!
Can we have Thor in the MCU being the very supportive brother who uses the pronouns Loki identities with at any given time. I saw such a wholesome fancomic of that and I just love the idea of Thor being his himbo self while loving/caring for his sibling
The Comics Code Authority thing really puts into perspective the irony of people who defend "the way comics were" while also crying about video game "censorship"
Regarding the so called Anti-SJWs: Everyone is a Social Justice Warrior, some people just shamefully limit their social justice advocacy to the smallest circle that includes them.
I'm more of a Social Justice Cleric, I work best as support.
The thing about Loki is that I don’t even relate to him that much personality-wise (I mean, I love him, but we’re nothing alike) but I still cling to him as one of the only genderfluid characters I’ve ever been able to find. Whenever I get really dysphoric I find myself reaching for Loki stories. Not even just the Marvel version, but Marvel is one of the queerest representations of him (especially the comics). I didn’t ever really want to hope for explicitly genderqueer rep even in his own show because I know Disney doesn’t usually go there and I sometimes think the breadcrumbs we were actually given are worse than nothing. But I love Sylvie so 🤷🏼 (I just really hope they end up as friends and go bother Thor in Love and Thunder so he has two siblings.)
Maybe I'm weird, but I never assume that anyone has a fixed gender. Even in most media, if you think about it, hardly anyone explicitly declares their own gender. It's typically just inferred through what other characters say.
I think that BMO from Adventure Time is also genderfluid
Hello from the Hallowoods (a podcast) has a gender fluid witch! It’s an ensamble story so they don’t get that much time as if they were the only mc. And there are also some other nb main characters
Same
Oh, I've been waiting for this, it's such a nice way for me to end this week.
I love how you point out Loki's villain queer-coding in how he dresses (most of his nemeses are also women, which I think also plays into it). In addition, I had never thought about how they sort of erased his flamboyance by putting him in his khakis and button-down (I'm straight and I guess I was blinded by how good Hiddleston looked in his button-down lol).
Now that you mention it, this sartorial queer-coding is also mixed with some classism that I hadn't noticed before. While I had already noticed that he was depicted as a theatrical "upper-class dandy" when he's in human disguises on Earth, especially comparated to his "traditionally masculine" brother Thor, it became really obvious, in hindsight, in Thor Ragnarok in the scene where Thor and Loki go to New York to pick Odin up from the old folks home. Loki is dressed in a head-to-toe black suit ensemble and looked like he walked out of a magazine, while Thor is in a "working class" tatty jean jacket over a faded hoodie, looking like he walked off a construction site.
And now, to make Loki a hero in this show, they not only remove remove his queer flamboyance, but also bring him down a peg in the socio-economic ladder by dressing him up as a white-collar worker, more of a middle-class signifier than the upper-class snob he liked to dress himself up as before...
Anyway, I think I've veered off-topic, but I loved this analysis! Thank you for this video, Jessie!
This might be giving disney too much credit but.... what if that's intentional, not as in Disney doing that to "straighten up" Loki but the TVA doing it instead. Think about it, they're super gender conforming time fascists, they're literally hunting down a gender divergent variant of Loki by any means necessary including bringing in a more conventional Loki and even then putting him in khakis and a tie instead of his usual androgynous long cut clothes with the occasional scarf. It may be looking too far into it and some wishful thinking but if we're gonna do the queer over analyzing thing I'm gonna go all in. And even then his straight washing khaki outfit has variant written on the back and in response to asking why hes told "so everyone knows what you are". I get that its main text because hes a variant but it sounds a lot like something someone would say to a trans or gay person being forced to stay in the closet, or being outed specifically to be ostracized
@@fangsabre I agree. I don't think Disney gets the credit though. The creative minds working on Loki do. Everything about the TVA design was made to be as much as a soul crushing bureaucracy that limits as much individuality and expression as possible. The only people who got a unique outfit there was the top judge. All of the rest of the analysts were in drab middle class clothing that was nearly all the same and the hunters and minutemen were indistinguishable and didn't even get NAMES. Just numbers. It's entirely thematic to the idea that no one is allowed to make their own choices outside of the sacred timeline and everything is conforming, regimented, and labeled clearly as to their place on the hierarchy.
Loki is such a complex and misunderstood character, and he/they is very relatable. In Norse Mythology he acted like the lawyer of the AESIR, however due to his chaotic nature, some of his deals would backfire on the AESIR.
It was notable that in most pagan mythologies the Gods were not bound by male/female categories when it comes to reproduction. Being able to create monsters and transform into forces of nature and animals to impregnate humans and other beings. Athena for example is the "brain daughter" of Zeus, and she's literally a brain daughter cause she's is born from Zeus head, after consuming another goddess.
However, after certain monotheistic religions took over, the whole range of what it was possible sexually and in the gender department was reduced. The whole rage of sexual orientation and gender expression was limited to the heteronormative model. So, this obviously followed the demonization of the pagans mythology. And completely forgot the fact, that before the monotheistic religions took over, people where not that close off to the idea of sexual diversity.
Loki ends up being so relatable, because even before the transition from pagan to monotheistic, he is an outcast. His male counterparts would also engage into shape shifting foreplay, however Odin is not viewed as gender fluid cause he is supposed to be a warrior, wise, strong and male. his transformations are not being viewed as corrosive to the patriarchy cause he does it to gather knowledge and from ancient times the search from knowledge has been relegated to men, and practicing female magic , it is just for science lol. The same happens with Zeus, giving birth to Athena was just a result to eating too much knowledge, just as if this was just an ancient "no homo".
So, the difference with Loki, is something so shallow, as the fact that he liked liked getting into a female dress and not just dabble into gender fluidity, it wasn't just an experiment with him, but part of his nature. It also didn't help that he bother the other AESIR so much, thus he crave attention, and that's why the other deities didn't like him so much.
At the end of his life, he feels rejected by his family and also betrayed, and instead of trying to reason with him, his story ends up in tragedy.
However, he is not a regular bad guy, he is pretty much a god that dabbles with both good and evil, and I am glad that at least MCU has done that right, and Hiddleston plays him really well, despite being just a fraction of what the original Norse character was.
One of the main problems I have with the Sylvie and Loki ship is the fact that it technically is the same person twice. I mean they have a different personality but it doesn't change the fact that they are Loki variants. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to think that this might be some form of incest or selfcest which isn't something I want to have to think about when it comes to ships.
I see it more as self-love
"Bearer of anxiety
Divergent of neuro"
I'm putting that in my bio
Disney+ isn’t even being marketed towards China or other anti-gay censorship country. By them stammering and failing to go forth with proper lgbtq+ representation, they are making a clear stance here when it comes to Loki in the MCU, and it doesn’t seem like a good one…
Disney+ is available in Malaysia,Indonesia,Singapore,Hong Kong and Macau(2021)
@@joelvoon7697 Point taken. But this enterprise still shouldn’t have to gear itself towards international audiences in the same way cinematic releases often do, due to it being a streaming platform that is massively popular amongst more inclusive demographics. Straight washing, or at the very least seemingly “straightening up” a historically queer character should not be seen as acceptable.
Not to mention Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, Daredevil and such were all once MCU canon, that didn't exactly end well. If Disney really wants to own the so called badge of inclusion then let's see it on a real movie screen, not on a streaming service.
unless he gets with möbius, but i doubt that, he can at last get to ride in the sunset with him abivalent.
Maybe they just didnt view the series as a sole medium for lgbt representation. Maybe they just wanted to tell a story.
it's certainly a hell of a dress
P.S. When me and my friend, both aro ace, discussed loki, we came to the common headcanon of him being bi aro but not ace. But honestly, taking just the quote from the episode, he could be bi/pan asexual, not necessarily bisexual or pansexual.
Yeah, like they'd give us bi ace rep in Loki&Hiddleston... *sighs* Still, could be ace.
If he was bi aro that would make me so happy
As Grey-A i'm running with that idea too. I flip between seeing him as biromantic ace and bisexual aro (which may or may not be a result of my personal orientation) but the point is there is still room for it on screen, and in this whatever one he isn't Sylvie is because that scene heavily implied that bi-ness applies to both of them wether or not you see them as technically the same individual.
I feel like Jessie-Loki is trying to bring out the creep commenter in me. But I resist you this time as well.
Anyway the twins are looking nice… well shit
haha I will always appreciate the creep commenter
Mine are taking much too long. 😭
The loooooooks!
This was a fascinating deep dive into Loki's presentation. It's interesting when specific characters through the decades attract LGBT+ audiences despite differences in their portrayals (also wow your outfits in this are incredible. You really pull off every style)
i haven't read much old wonder woman but i have seen professor marston and the wonder women and i agree that there probably was plenty of bondage in wonder woman.
It was barely even subtext. Practically text
In the early Wonder Woman comics, her weakness was that she'd lose her powers if she allowed herself to be tied up by a man. So, yeah...
I'm a rope person and the first time I sea the old comics Made me go " they know what they are doing " and the the sabmision speches
Hearing the name Snorre as a Swedish kid was gold. Remember getting my teacher to repeat it as much as possible x)
bra jobbat! ;) du får guldstjärna får hårt och välförtjänt arbete!
Ohh the Edda! Glad to see more folks who have (very likely?) read them.. :))
Yes absolutely please do more deep dives like this! I love how you've used the lens of the different incarnations to quickly introduce a lot of the restrictions on queer stories over time, which is a contextual element that's easy to forget.
I can finish the PhilosophyTube video and come right here! Glorious
licherally SAME
omg same
Same
"As a young pre out trans kid I did the exact same thing" I just got the greatest image of baby Jessie at the wedding looking absolutely radiant while MCU Thor flies around murdering people.
Let it be known that your Loki cosplay has inspired me to continue working on my Loki cosplay, so thank you for that
Yasss the more cosplay the better
I'm gonna say Pansexual. Which isn't to say he has had sex with Pan, or impersonating Pan to play slap, and tickle with Nymphs, but I wouldn't rule it out, either.
As a person called Pan, yeah, sadly that's not been the case, so far.
@@Pan-optic As a Nympho, that hasn't happened to me, either.
A different perspective on pansexuality unknown to the masses. Makes sense, the Pansexual said.
@@charisma-hornum-fries Well, it was a Satryical take.
"Pan entered from the back door, as Greeks are wont to do. [recalled from memory]" from. "Jitterbug Perfume" Tom Robbins, his best book IMHO.
Pansexuality means resembling the sexuality of Pan, the god of back doors. And you got the etymology of satyre right too!
Does No One Else Think It's Weird That To "Straighten" Loki Out, The Straights Decided To Pair Him With Sylvie Who Is A Different Version Of Him-??? Sylvie is such a good character but i think their love is a bit... strange. If he was learning to love himself by finally having a friend would be one thing... but this seems different...
“I think we’re stronger than we realize.” -Loki to Sylvie. Also i would love to see more deep dives this video was great.
An interesting thing about these anti sjw dudebros who are mad about this iteration of Loki having aspects to him they don’t favour and you bringing up if they’ve read Norse mythology since these aspects are also present there, it’s like ... they probably haven’t and don’t care because they already have a certain image of Norse mythology in their head. I know a lot of white supremacist in the US really idealise viking culture because of its often simplified aggressive and masculine nature (not saying all anti sjw ppl are white supremacists, but you know, there’s a pipeline). I am from Denmark and it’s so weird for me to see because I don’t see any white supremacist idealising vikings here (not saying it doesn’t exist, I just haven’t seen them do it in the same way as in the US. In high school in social studies we discussed how white supremacists in the US idealise viking culture like it’s so prevalent amongst the US crowd that we are becoming this aware of it over here). I think the reason I don’t see it as often is because we study the vikings in history class here and read Norse mythology in religion class from when we are children.
Thus, we generally know the gender dynamics in the viking culture as well as in Norse mythology were much more complicated and nuanced. That’s why I think this whole Loki situation has so many anti sjw people riled up. It doesn’t fit their perception of “the old days” they’ve idealised in their head and it doesn’t fit their romanticised image of the vikings they want back, so they feel threatened. The thing is, the image they have in their heads is not accurate to begin with. They’re mad for nothing. You highlighted some really good aspects of the mythology to support this argument and I think paired with the fact that these people are likely into superheroes because they also fall into displaying aggressive and toxic masculinity like this past where “men were men” and “women were women” that they so idealise (even though as you said people thought superheroes were “too gay” before anyway akdkekdj) it makes for a very exhausting cocktail
White supremacists idealizing "viking" and greek culture is ridiculous and hilarious (and awful and pathetic). Vikings had nice gender equality, traded and accepted african sailors, had poetry picnics and had sexual acceptance While Greeks, specifically Spartans were all gay and NOT WHITE and women had rights for that time period.
It's similar with nazis in america and germany. Germany actually teaches history and what happened while america's "education" system is trash.
I'm Swedish and I know of both Swedish and Norwegian white supremacists who cling to Norse mythology as being "manly" and "the good old days", but they are the kind of people who have been living inside a bubble and did not pay attention in school. They have probably been consuming too much American media/propaganda.
@@EasterWitch European white supremacists who are influenced by american white supremacist media that appropriates european (and other foreign) cultures. And all these americans are descendants of europeans if you go even farther. what a back and forth lol
I was hoping someone would bring this up. Underrated comment. 👍
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Greeks and spartans where europeans. I dont know what your definiton of white is but they are definetely a part of the european people groups.
I collected X-Men as a kid, but even I knew about Loki's queer gender/sexuality.
As soon as Loki was introduced into the MCU, I loved him. Hiddleston has done him so much justice and many of the best scenes in all the movies involve him. I'm loving the show and will be sad when it's over.
Mid way through latest episode of Loki I was screaming hug!!! At end when everyone finally hugged I cheered. Sylvie talking about being alone and not knowing how to react/act. Omg. The feels. I cried I felt so seen. I know so very totally off topic but man. It all was so good. She is my hero
Loki being the offspring of a Greek God would be such a Loki-Thing, I'm intrigue where God of War will take it.
God of War is surprisingly accurate to actual mythology. Loki's father in norse mythology is very unknown. He is a giant named Fárbauti (meaning dangerous striker/angry striker/hostile/dangerous), and if that doesn't fit Kratos I don't know what does.
Several positive points about the series I feel were missed: Möbius tells Loki that he can be anything he wants to be in case anyone has told him different. The Loki Sylvie “love affair” could also be framed as self love hinted at by denials of it being a romance. (Loki literally says she’s awesome before the extreme branch event, and Sylvie tells Loki he has the power of enchantment because they are the same, and Loki says “we are more powerful than we imagine” after witnessing Classic Loki’s display of power). Many speculate Sylvie is plucked as a variant from the timeline is because she dared to dream of herself a hero, and might have and may still yet succeed. There’s also a general theme of striving toward change of self and tearing a system of oppression down. If Möbius isn’t Loki’s shipmate, at least he’ll help “burn it all down” and he thanks Loki for the spark. Maybe I’d like to see the glass as half full as far as the show being a metaphor for grappling toward better representation and acceptance.
I wasn’t put off by Loki’s costuming. The TVA imagery is fascist, militant, plus noir detective and hence the costuming is masculine. There are numerous female characters in powerful positions, and I don’t recall any in a dress. (Renslayer’s jacket is femininely tailored and the female hunters have feminized breast plates, but this is subtle). Hunter B-15’s role was written as male, but they cast a women to great effect. Seems a fairly feminist representation and gender and queer neutral given these are uniforms within a don’t ask don’t tell framework.
They may still fall on their face depending on who’s the true hero or villain of the series, but I have to appreciate Disney’s Loki-like attempt- even if it fails in the end.
I loved this. Loki had been my favourite character since the first Thor movie came out. Not only was he a queercoded villain but his story in the movie is fundamentally a queer one. Despite his status he struggles to fit in and is always a bit of an outsider despite living in Asgard all his life. Then he discovers something about himself that the surrounding society views as monstrous and is unable to accept it. You can't convince me that is not a fundamentally queer experience.
it could be argued that when these myths were first spoken that our medical gender reassignment surgery would seem like magic to them. To me as a cis man it still also seems kinda magical that people can change who they are on the outside to fit their true self even today
Neat video. There is definitely something wider to be said about tricksters in mythology as often playing with concepts of gender and the role of such stories in our understanding of concepts etc.
Oh indeed, there is def a video worth doing on tricksters at some point
makes me wonder about medieval court jesters (or even today's stand up comedians) who were allowed to make criticisms of the king and society that no one else could, because they "played the fool."
31:40 i feel like a trans woman presenting masculine and saying she enjous it is the ultimate power move. Such a flex. Jessie has single handedly destroyed the gender binary, everyone go home.
Seconded! :)
I remember reading Agent of Asgard (I began paying attention to Loki after discovering Angela) and seeing Loki change into Lady Loki, a fox and his male form and saying "It's still me" that along with the heartfelt way Odin refers to his children was my first introduction to the concept of non-binary or gender-fluid; I read the comic easily understood what they were talking about and moved on...then discovered the whole "discourse" in the real world...
I got an ad for the Swedish History Museum about what I think is an exhibition about the Viking world. Very fitting.
I would absolutely love more history/fiction fusion videos! I'm not even watching the Loki show (yet?) but I loved seeing the different iterations go from mythology -> comics -> movies -> TV, bringing in various cultural norms along the way.
This was wonderfully done and really fascinating. I adore mythology and this was both informative and entertaining. You also made a great point about magic typically being associated with the divine feminine across cultures and mythologies.
Thank you so much!
Same
"Our favorite trickster god"
Huh, weird, you didn't mention Anansi anywhere in this video 🤔
But no, really, great video : p
Best horse mom(if odin is a terrible uncle)
And never forgett, thor in drag (with loki, its not drag, because he/she is loki)
And good liki look
Super wonderful video! Although I've never watched the show, I've heard a lot about it and I think my personal theory on why people (including me) dislike Loki x Sylvie is mainly due to the weird aspect of them both being a "Loki," rather than bi-erasure, but it could also definitely be unintentional (or even intentional) bi-erasure. Also the fact that I think Mobius and Loki have better chemistry imo. That's just my thoughts on it though!
MCU: "Look at us being so LGBTQ friendly. We've got the gay guy in Endgame, and Loki, and, um, Valkyrie. Once Love & Thunder comes out."
Arrowverse: *glares in Mister Terrific, Nia Nal. Capt. Singh, Citizen Cold, XS, Pied Piper, Constantine, Sara Lance, Ava Sharpe, 2 Batwomen, The Ray, Alex Danvers, Julia Pennyworth, Maggie Sawyer, and Kelly Olsen.*
People getting of worked up about Loki getting a ( supposedly) more masc/straight-ish costume with the suit and tie: You did notice, did you not, that they had him literally naked and in a collar, right? How much more queer do you want?!?
Loki is not an anti-hero he becomes an anti-villain.
In the tv show it's the other way around.
He's pure chaos
@@chadfalardeau5396 not really. He's always been the cartoon villain but now he is an anti-villain at the moment. He may become an anti-hero but hasn't yet.
Oh, myyyy! Seems your Loki cosplay owes a bit of inspiration to Elvira, Mistress of the Dark...talk about "burdened with glorious purpose" ! 😍🥰 Also: Loki may be a switch, but he leans more heavily towards brat!
That intro was pure fire
It's the first video from this channel I'm seeing, and it's SO COOL
I guess I'll need all my free time to watch this channel
Welcome to the community!
I'm truly gonna go down with this ship, I'm not gonna give up on it until there's nothing left to hope for. this is what lockdown has done to me
Thankfully, Loki is still my favorite character/real mythology from the past 10 years. Even though I’ve been researching him for the past couple of years, I’m happy that he is Pansexual or bisexual. Since, there are still some of us that still questioning our sexuality, I definitely don’t mind being neither straight or bi. With Loki, it made me really ease out on what my own sexuality is, and just accept myself. Hence on why I still love Loki, as a whole no matter what.
I'm so torn between being mad that Loki doesn't pair himself with Mobius or any other character that would break the Disney mold and at the same time thinking it's actually perfectly Loki for him to pick what is essentially himself as a romantic interest.
I recently came out as genderfluid, and it would be so nice to have explicit representation of a genderfluid character like, experiencing changes in gender identity? Even if it isn't deeply explored, and just the character changes gender presentation and pronouns several times and looks amazing while doing so, it would be nice to have a character to relate to. I just watched Loki because "yay genderfluid representation," but the fact that it was written on a form that Loki's sex is fluid isn't really representation...
On the Loki show attire for the main Loki variant, I started to raise my hand to say, but wait the the TVA took Loki’s chosen attire and made him dress in that hideous shirt and tie because they’re making them conform. But then I lowered my hand because when Loki had a choice in the Void, the shirt and tie stayed. Missed opportunity. Hand back down. Great vid to do some reflection on. Thanks for all this awesome work!
Always love your sense of humor. And YES! MORE OF THIS!!!
Thank you so much!
your outfits (especially the 2nd one) are all amazing, i loved the outro/credits, and "divergent of neuro" had me cackling!! also, as someone who's genderqueer, this whole video was awesome and it made me feel less alone 💖💕
46:43 THE LEVEL OF FRAGILE MASCULINITY
My very thoughts
I just wrote a tumblr post about this, Loki is just so relatable
What’s your tumblr? I wanna read it 👉👈
Brilliant explication of Loki in the sagas (from what little we have!) and Loki in comics and film❣️ it is frustrating how Disney ( and Hollywood) hesitate to acknowledge the LGBTQ community while using all the talent they can!!
Great job Jessie🥰
Loki being genderfluid holds true to the ORIGINAL Norse mythology. Loki is gender, sexual and (sometimes) species fluid.
YAY!!! The Loki video is the first video where my name is in the Patreon Thank you list! Loved the little closing credits graphical montage Jessie!
and I get to see my name displayed in Original Series Trek Font! DOUBLE BONUS!!! (my nerdy heart overfloweth!)
41:48 THIS. I was downvoted to hell for bringing this up on reddit.
I, as a bisexual myself, just wanna clarify that bisexuals in heterosexual relationships are valid. All kinds bisexuals are valid no matter who your preference is and deserve all the love and support from the lgbtq+ community.
But this is DISNEY we're talking about. I was so glad to hear Loki being confirmed to be bi only for the Sylki relationship to be pushed more in the recent episodes (yeah yeah i get that its in-character for him but cmon he has chemistry with both Mobi and Sylvie). I'm gonna be honest i was more okay with Loki (the show) not having any romantic subplot at all but then they introduced the idea of love and shit halfway through the show so it made me think, "well shit i wonder how are they gonna deal with this" and then ep 4 came which made me feel like that one line was just made for headlines.
I think it's my bad as an audience member for getting my hopes up since that revelation. Of course its Disney, did i seriously think id get explicit queer representation in their property.
Not saying that it ruined the show for me, all the marvel series so far are entertaining. But i do hope it doesn't fall for the mediocre/disappointing finale curse because from all the reviews ive seen, its kinda becoming a pattern.
those are my thoughts so far, im sorry if it seems like a jumbled mess to read
Why do they call him Laufeyson when Laufey in mythology was the "mom", right? edit, ok, just looked it up on wikipedia, that Loki is sometimes called by a matronymic instead of by the usual patronymic name
Yeah, we talk about it a bit in the video
@@JessieGender1 Do they do it because he doesn't have a last name?
@@juliusroman8616 last names came about as way to identify one "John" or "Mary" from another as villages got bigger. The original last names came from job titles and who the parents were. So John the baker became John Baker, and Jack, Jame's son became Jack Jameson. Loki being having the last name he does is completely within how last names developed.
What I'd seen about last names for Norse, Norwegian, Swedish, maybe Danish and Icelandic: It's common to give a last name as (father's name) + (-son or -daughter), so you could be Olafsson or Olafsdaughter (the native language form of son or daughter, not English, of course). -- But I would guess that if the father was not known or the mother was more famous / important, a child might get the mother's name + son or daughter as their last name. Not sure if this is usual custom there, but works for head-canon, it makes sense. However,there's be a big difference in being named because your mother was famous, important, versus the father was not known or his name had to be hidden because of inconvenient, scandalous reasons. There ya go, overthinking it. ;)
Loki's mom Laufey is a goddess and his father is a frost giant. She outranks him therefore her name can get passed on. In Norse cultures there was equality and you could totally do that.
When they made the marvel version they made Laufey male because a woman outranking a man wouldn't work. Thank you western cultures.
What makes this even better is that he is a bi person who goes by he pronouns and sometimes identifies as a man. Bi people (especially those identifying as men/he or non-binary) are extremely few compared to other LGBTQ+ identities. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to find one bi boy icon in fiction as a non-binary person myself. This is something that can't be overlooked or ignored. I'm grateful myself because Loki is one of my favorite characters. I only hope that his bisexuality doesn't go ignored or erased. Not just by Disney but by the public themselves.
I kept wondering though throughout this: is the entire tv arc a meta narrative of breaking the Queer punishment concept itself? The central idea seems to be that some central power in the universe thinks Loki must die because of who Loki *is* and yet the central aspect of Loki's is that Loki's are survivors. Kid Loki literally said it, "Anytime one of us tries to improve themselves we're sent here to die." Seems very reminiscent of pushback against queer rights and narratives today.
Excellent video, Jessie! I learned a lot about Norse mythology! Glad I caught the premier.
Thank you so much Don
On the bi erasure, the solution is clearly to have both Mobius and Sylvie get to make out with him in the finale.
For all the discussion of orientation and gender, we still have jack all in the way of mainstream discourse of interest in more or less than one other person.
That anti sjw saying "what's the point of that" after the horse thing made me scream laugh. IDK what's the point of any myth. What's the point of religion. What's the point of having children. What's the point of a horse. Like i don't know what specifically he's asking but none of it can be answered quickly in a little livestream convo with your friends who clearly don't have tons of knowledge on any of these subjects
tbh the point of most myths is to explain why stuff in the sky moves the way it does
that was really cool, fun, and informative
the quality of this video is quite top notch ma'am
25:17 Did a double-take when I heard that one, guess it slipped through editing :)
That black dress is stunning on you and I need to find it!!!
As a side note, I absolutely adore that you highlighted how the queer coding shiften to more cis-het the moment Loki became the main character. There would be some painful stuff to unpack about how Loki entered the fantasies of the masses just after Joss Whedon, as the abuser he is, coded him like he did with Spike with the "mewling quim" which led to Comicon 2013 and the perpetration of the trope "I can change my beloved" cause "all girls love bad boys". It saddens me we don't talk about these tropes the way we internalised them as "romantic" cause the patriarchy always had an interest making abuse and darkness pass for such. Loki is such a quintessential exemplification of that especially looking at how the fandom basically molded him into its own thing.
Honestly my shipping endgame is now Sylvie/Loki/Mobius.
I appreciate the work you put into this even if UA-cam doesn't. Great information, great props, great costumes, and great analysis!
“Lover of beards and Garrus” 😍
As a Pagan and queer I feel that the myths aren't static and modern interpretations of mythology are valid and keep the stories and relationships with the Gods alive.
Beautiful work, as usual. I am inspired and taking notes from all my favorite UA-cam creators. Thank you so much for being you.
Thank you for being here and being you ❤️
I have a project that I have been trying to work through for months now.
Everytime I play this video in the backgound I end up trying to work on some other more mundane housework.
I cannot tell you how many times you've just saved us, sharing beauty to the powerless that you so kindly invite to help.
Thank you for helping me find inner peace...roasty as it might be;
You know how to calm us all down.
Thiiis is gonna be about Sleipnir, innit.
Only partially haha
@@JessieGender1 oh, so that one goat, too?
As a fluid person myself, Loki as a character from mythology helped me realise just how real that option was, to which I only got through Loki the MCU character (also Loki: Agent of Asgard seems to be an unknown with most people I talk comics with so THANK YOU for including it here) so it's always probably going to be my favourite, but yeah, at this point I wasn't even sure it's worth it to pirate the episodes as to avoid disappointment. I might actually check it out after this video, though, so thank you for that :3
I miss Verity.
Fantastic exploration both in topic and costume choices!! Can tell you've stepped up your editing game too!! Thank you for all you do, for being a bright light in this crazy world!! LOVE!!!🌈😄⭐🖖🏼🎶🙏🏼🤟🏼💥
Gods are gonna God, n Jessie is gonna Jessie and I'm so glad!!!
the thumbnail made me feel things. another amazing video!!!
Odin learned Seidh. (Women's magic)
and did some of his greatest feats with it. Of course there's no one Norse belief and views on that fact have varied through out the history. There's a later myth of Loki getting in an insult fight with... well everyone and had the balls to bring that up that "shame" himself. Odin tried to shame Loki for committing ergi (unmanliness) and giving birth *as a woman* .Loki turned that around and brought up Odin learning drumming from witches and being dressed as one. practicing seidh was basically synomous with ergi during middle ages but Loki also explicitly accused Odin of ergi right back at him. Unmanliness being one of the insults you could kill someone over.
The history of manliness and queerness of the norse is all very interesting
...this is what i get for commenting before watching the video
Lord how am i supposed to focus on this video 😳
I feel you
I'm comforted by the fact that I wasn't the only one to read Sylvie as a transwoman. I felt like I was projecting