Copying Other People's Playstyles Only Goes So Far
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 жов 2024
- streamed Jan. 10, 2023
Follow Sajam on Twitter & Twitch:
/ sajam
/ sajam
/ discord
If you're ever confused by some terminology try looking it up in the FG Glossary:
glossary.infil...
Clips Channel:
/ sajamclips
Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste:
/ magicmoste
#FGC #Sajam
This is why no one can ever be Kusoru. People see the things he does on screen, but don't understand the way he's playing, and how he knows when to go for the stupid stuff and when to go for the good stuff
2d RC 2d RC go crazy
@@NemSumeragi That's that moment when the opponent is like, "wait, he just spent all his bar?!" where the mental guard break happens and everything becomes unblockable.
Nobody knowing how to play i-no because of everyone looking up to Daru and going "damn he's way too good" and then just partying instead
Yeah, but "partying" IS how you play I-NO. :3
Same in every game. A few years back in csgo people were talking about s1mple vs dev1ce. dev1ce is fundamentally solid, while s1mple has the skills to back up some batshit insane decision making.
Yup, Elmapuddy's vid "You should AWP like Device, not s1mple" is this exactly
As long as you're AWPing like someone with a 1 in their name, that's the important part
Bruh. Never thought I would see S1mple name in a sajam comment section but here we are
@@valkyrieKNIGH7 I may be wrong but I remember watching sajam commenting about s1mple in a vid
@@Gabrol I wouldn't be surprised. He watches other esports scenes
When in doubt, Ctrl + C
But don't just Ctrl + V
Meanwhile Ino mains are studying Japanese flow charts
you can take this topic to every single competitive game and it would apply to some degree, even to a game like magic the gathering, where its not just the best performing deck or the best player that determines a winner, but the ability to read a tournament and pick a deck (or options in a deck) that competes well across what you feel the tournament is going to play that pushes the best players across that line into regular top tournament play.
i once saw a World's that was taken down by an $70 Basic Blue deck. That was amazing! Up against a *horrific* draw dependent "one hit wins" meta too. We thought it was gonna' be ugly and it was, just not the way we thought! You gotta' love those kind of Tournaments! :D
This was some of the best advice I could’ve got I just didn’t know how to articulate what my issue was .
I’m finally getting to the point that instead of copying my favorite player im understanding footsies and neutral little by little .i knew what he was doing I just couldn’t always explain why and I feel like knowing why is the most important part. It definitly helped me understand some things though by just doing it and over time i would figure out why it fits or works
I remember when I was grinding ranked in SFV there were so many Karins trying to play like Punk and pretending to know neutral in lower ranks,
they would just walk back and forth and press low foward somewhat randomly, not understanding the decision making process andtheir spacing.
What's funny about these guys is that they had really bad defense, and in SFV there's absolutely no reason for you to respect someone's ground game if they can't anti air you, and Karin has to play the ground game to really shine,
in high level competitive play, it's safe to assume that both players have good anti airs, so you'd play the ground game from the get go, but when you're in Bronze League *you have to set that up* in the opponent's mind, otherwise people will just jump at ya over and over, and I guess a lot of these Karins didn't figure that out since they just saw Punk comboing from his Low Foward at EVO and thought "huh, I can do that too!", without realizing the context of his gameplay.
Have to say that's pretty much the same for every character alltough not as obvious that you're doing something wrong. Getting out of bronze is an anti-air minigame.
It doesn't help them with their defense when Karin has no dedicated anti-air without meter. o.o Er, as God intended of course!
In my potempkin play, deciding not to play like FAB really improved my win rate. I started using jumps to hide my grab inputs like how I kind of naturally did with Broly and Zangief and started getting way more grabs in matches even though thats not how FAB or other popular Pots play.
Grounded PB, especially kara PB is necessary for putting the fear of god in your opponent as pot and I would encourage you to continue working on that even if you recognize that you have a better success rate with jump PB right now. Even if your kara pot buster execution is fantastic and you are just choosing to empty jump, recognize that you need to work deceptive grounded pot buster in your game as a key tool, even if the exact way you use that tool isn't identical to FAB.
@@semantik95 yeah I can grounded PB just fine and often make good use of it in a scramble and as a wake up tool to deal with rushdown characters trying to bulldog (dash push me into the corner after a knockdown) the issue is most players kind of know the grounded mix options for pb, while conditioning them to fear jS or jHS and then tossing in grabs is still effective on floor 8 and 9 where I'm usually playing.
For reference, I'm a celestial player with goldlewis and testament. That said, I don't play much ranked. I play almost every character, and pot is among my top 5 best characters. I'm 100% sure I could get celestial with Pot if I wanted to. I've been a tournament player since about 2010.
I will tell you my most common use cases for grounded PB in order of importance and maybe that will help you:
1) After establishing cl.S on your good knockdowns (close slide head, non max range 2D, combo into garuda). Once you establish meaty cl.S, PB or cl.S tick into kPB gets really good because they have to respect cl.S xx 2D. If you convert from cl.S when they are holding up or backdashing into a big combo, you will scare them into getting grabbed. One specific tip for this is that if you slightly delay cl.S, you can catch jump and backdash simultaneously cuz they will run out of invuln frames on backdash so you can convert into 2S for incredible damage (especially if you can do kara giganter). Until you establish scary close slash stuff, people will just belligerently backdash or hold up.
2) kPB after kara garuda. Kara Garuda should be your most common meaty since you don't always get knockdowns good enough for cl.S. Strive gives you 5f of grab invuln on wakeup and after blockstun. The guardcrush from garuda takes away that invuln in addition to removing opponent's ability to YRC so tick setups from garuda are particularly tight and punishing, especially if you establish 2D after blocked garuda.
3) Reversal PB. This is obvious and you said you're already doing it, but there are 3 major specific cases. The first is backdash a grab or a meaty normal in the corner (corner only cuz i know for a fact I'll still be in range to PB). This really screws them up cuz they are usually trying to cancel their meaty normal so when you make it whiff, they will get grabbed even if you are a little late cuz they aren't holding up.
The second case is after FD, the opponent will frequently want to microdash in to continue pressure, and if I read that they want to keep pressing after FD, PB works.
Also, if you have the hands for it, wakeup HPB RC PB is incredibly nasty and it only costs 50 meter if you do it right.
4) Hammerfall fast RC PB. I'm sure this is obvious and you already know about it, but its so good. Also one specific tip I have is to do out out of strings (blocked 5HS/5S/2D). You have to delay the hammerfall just a hair to make sure they aren't still ungrabbable after the blockstun, but its very effective.
5) kPB after blocked jumpin. The range is so ridiculous that it will work very often since people are used to blocking a normal after jumpin 90% of the time. You have to practice delaying the kpB to wait out the blockstun AND the 5f of grab invuln, but it works.
Most important way to make points 1 and 2 actually work for you is getting used to actively recognizing what your good knockdowns are and what your bad knockdowns are so you know when you can get cl.S and when you have to settle for kara garuda. Its hard at first, but if you keep it in mind, you will start to be able to eyeball the different ranges. it will make your Pot much scarier in general. Good luck.
But how can I win if I don’t copy lifejam’s gold burst setups
One of my favourite examples of differing playstyles was early on in SFV, with Fuudo and NuckleDu playing Mika.
I have never seen one character played so drastically differently than when watching those 2 do their thing, it was fascinating.
This is exactly how I felt today with the KOF XV release notes, basically they nerfed to the ground the "Stun Combo Install" from Ash and buffed all the other tools he has which I mainly use because I sux at that long combo since XIII and never go for it. I was like "Hell yeah! now my playstyle with Ash will be even better and the nerf on the install and stun combo doesn't affect me lol".
Also in Strive I was used to play Ram with the Rekkas because I love them but then suddenly they got buffed (and now nerfed again). There are plenty of ways to play a character, surely some will be "optimal" but that doesn't mean you should do the same if your gameplay gives you more fun and joy.
A clear example was MK with 10 and 11, you could use a lot of characters with different variations, and even if most people would use GrandMaster SubZero I would stick to Unbreakable because I love to play it like that way more, or my friend with Jacquie abusing the napalm shots...
The issue is that people seem to play "FOR THE WIN" like their life depends on it, and 90% of them are scrubs, so they try to scratch a win even by playing with a character or style they don't even enjoy because the win is more fulfilling for them still while it gives nothing more than a statistic number in their avatar. Every single time I make a combo or a play I like it puts a smile on my face while still I would lose that match, because obviously I want to win as will but I enjoy the game overall and the style is what makes me like it even more.
Sometimes it is nice to find people playing the same character with a different style since you can then get a new point of view and even adapt some of that gameplay intou your if it works or appeals to you, I remember not understanding some moves and then watching others use in different situations while getting a mindblow about it and understanding a lot of things better but never going "copy/paste".
This was definitely me watching mocchi play sol and then getting my ass beat trying to copy EVERYTHING he did. The way i play sol is super grounded and my strenghts as a player, at least in my opinion are spacing and feinting approaches on the ground. Trying to play so much in the air like mocchi got me counter-hit so many times because i just didn't know what i was doing. But even after realizing that, it wasn't for nothing because even if my playstyle is more grounded i still use a lot of tech from him when i'm trying to establish my offense.
Today I learned that the picture of the anime girl going around wasnt a meme and is in fact a new KOF character coming. Thank you Sajam.
I love trying out Gobou's insane BRC setups with Goldlewis. I always lab them out to see what they beat and lose to though, which I would encourage anyone to do before adding random tactics into your repertoire.
It's with everything
That's how I plateau 'd when I still did martial arts. I tried playing like my coach. I just got better significantly when I figured out my own gameplan that works for me.
Doe people will always try to mimick the style of someone better and that's fine for learning. Then just evolve it into solely your own. That's what I am currently trying to do with singing.
Fame and Hotashi both inspired my Nago playstyle, I had to adapt them both quite a bit since I don't have the ham bone hotashi has and I'm not as slick or technical as Fame
Ham bone sounds like a good name for an evolved Hitbox. It beats Cross-Up. There hasn't been a name THAT on the nose since "Objectivism." xD
definitely. One example, people saying 'thats a bad move' rather than perfect situation to use it, thinking about all metrics. It's unfortunate.
The right way to play a character is determined by what gives you the most fun or wins the match you are currently in, not by what top players are doing or even what is the most consistent option for a given situation. As Mang0 once said, if you do the best option every time it stops being the best option because you can counter it. Not to say you shouldn't learn your characters strongest tools, but if you can have fun without using them go ahead.
Playing with both Sol and Axl in strive have me thinking more about about spacing with one and rushing in with the other. Axl is the one I'm running in btw.
And the thing about using a character's crutches to their fullest is very real when changing between both, 5K is biggest offender for me because while Axl can just 5K someone crouching, Sol sometimes misses if not quite in range.
Once I get a proper hang on charge I might fool around with Pot to see how much I depend on dashes.
I play Ky as a wiff punish character. I wasn't able to find a player to copy in Strive, so here I am, a wiff punish Ky main.
sajamcels be seething over vtubechads
Yep thank you Redditto, SQ, Solstice and Zando for the goated Ram gameplays
I know I don't copy anyone's playstyles, because I do some stuff so incomprehensible it can't be summarized by comparing what I do to [insert top player]
I for sure had to adjust the mocchi playstyle to fine tune it for myself and what I do when I play. Full on copying just doesn't work lol
I went through this exact thing with Sol IAD back jS
It only actually started working once I thought about why it worked when I saw it, shit got me killed so much before then when I tried it
Great video Sajam! If they won't let you teach, ya' may as well preach yeah? xD Is it *really* RPS though? i admit to being inexperienced with Guilty Gear and the Roman Cancel and Faultless Defense/BURST systems specifically, but for me it's more of a Rock, Paper, Shotgun, Bit of a Samich, Old Comic Book affair..... :3 Is that just my inexperience telling me i have more options than i really think i do or am i right in thinking that if i threaten them with a Bit of a Samich is it true that they'll never see Old Comic Book comin'? Especially if they are focussed on Rock, Paper an' o.o What the hell are "Scissors?"
Joke's on you, I don't even know if I'm copying someone since I wouldn't know how to answer confidently when asked "how would you describe your playstyle?"
I think only someone more brainiac could describe it once seeing me in action.
Even during Mew2King's reign as a top Marth player, other players didn't play Marth because his play style was so hard to learn from/ replicate. Only when Zain, a more fundamental Marth player, started to succeed did Marth become as popular as he is today.
I honestly don’t know how to identify my own playstyle and gameplan I’ve tried to think more about it even taking notes but I still feel like I’m missing something 😅
It takes time to develop your own style through creativity and experimentation. Don't sleep on how much your own creativity and style can help your growth.
It's just a matter of trying things and seeing what works for you... and being careful not to rely on things that only work because of the rank you're in. Style will develop naturally, don't try to force it.
don't think about it. Just keep playing.
@@kevingriffith6011 How is someone supposed to know if something is only working "because of their rank" though? *Especially* if it's a new idea!
@@mikejonesnoreally If you think a potential mixup is good, try it on yourself. Record a bot doing your tactic against you along with a few other similar moves and see if you can respond to it yourself. Some times you'll find that what sounded good on paper just isn't great in practice.
Sometimes the only way to know is to keep trying it on different people of your rank until it stops working.
To give you an example on my main, Blanka: I thought I was really clever in bronze doing command dash -> throw on people in neutral. At about super silver, though, basically everyone was jabbing me out of it, because they had essentially over 30 frames to react to it.
You'll want to keep in mind what is reactable (~17-19 frames if they're actively looking for it), and how the tactic works on someone who just blocks, or just mashes. or delay techs. I wish I could explain the whole business without writing a complete novel, but it kind of varies from character to character.
I know I'm simplifying a lot here but when I think about combos, I never try to play with the character and discover cancels and links and scaling by myself, I always looks for someone else optimal combo because I'm too lazy to waste a few hours only to realize my combo is not optimal lol
But it's not the same in gameplan, I try to improve myself instead of just copying what I see other people doing (tho other people may influence how I play)
Also, how do I find out what my playstyle is?
If I know almost exactly what you're going to attack me with due to having an understanting of your character and what's "optimal", than how is that actually an optimal outcome?
@@mikejonesnoreally sorry I didn't understand your question, are you talking about neutral?
@@Gabrol i apologize, what i mean is that if i know what your best stuff is and the angle of it's attack, how is that good in such a counter heavy game? (No the meta isn't counter heavy....YET) If i can get a read on even 50% of your moves, i just pick Baiken and win right? Other characters force RPS, Baiken turns RPS into a single question: "Are you gonna' do it or not?"
@@mikejonesnoreally I'm not sure I'm understanding your point yet, or what does that have to do with my original message.
But afaik you can't counter everything with a single action, even when baiken's parry comes to play you can choose to use a delayed attack, or an attack with a slow startup
@@Gabrol i was specifically responding to your idea that it's best to learn a Character's *optimal* tactics. i though you said it as if it were the *most* important thing, maybe i misunderstood? Also, do you know how long Baiken's parry is active? i didn't say it was the only option, just that it turns RPS into a Coin Flip. i think it's even better than that because it covers all angles except an overhead.
Ah yes... just like copying someone homework without even editing with your own answer in case of someone homework had the wrong answer in it
"The only player you should mimick is yourself!"-Me 2023
I'm 14 and this is deep, said to Michael Jackson
You gotta thank her for the free content you silly meat-tuber.
moba players need this video they are wack
I would agree for most games, but for Strive I just don't see it. Everyone has the same tools, and more to the point, the same small movesets.
I truly don't see his explanation in any sort of difference in playstyles between two GL or Nago players. They're still gonna Typhoon, they're still gonna beyblade, they're still going to do the same pressure strings.
In something like SF I could see where two Ryu players would play differently, but in a game like Strive, everything is too same-y to get that same feeling.