Thanks for posting this incredible interview. The band Bruford's music is some of the finest in my opinion, and definitely on my desert island list. I wonder why to this day why John Clark is still "unknown". Not anyone can just hop in there and replace Allan Holdsworth. Makes me wonder if he, like Allan, had a personality that does not jive with the whole showbiz scene, and shied away and went and got a job or something.
John was phenomenal and certainly did not disappear from music after Bruford. Quite the opposite, he became the guitarist, and later musical director, for a very famous British pop artist known as Cliff Richard. Essentially John stayed with Cliff until John chose to retire a few years ago. I tracked him down and via email learnt a lot of interesting information. He is another of those musical geniuses that was humble about his talent. And lest people forget, he did a stellar job of replacing Allan, and it is prescient to note that, in the booklet accompanying the recent Bruford box set, Jeff Berlin made it very clear that he did not feel there was any drop in quality or excitement for the audience by John stepping into Allan's shoes. I do wish John had done more fusion type music but he can't be criticized for maintaining his substantial gig with Cliff for the rest of his career.
Bill: Allan doesn't like to tour. A year or so later Allan is on a perpetual tour for the rest of his life. Bill: Don't call me jazz and I won't be working with Fripp. A couple years later he's back in King Crimson, then also his jazz band Earthworks. Well he was right that he would be around although now he's retired. I'm just glad I got to witness some of it live.
To be clear after many years as a sideman AH grew to not like being told how to play and what to do as far as creativity and pounding the gig pavement nite after nite. Having to play the same solos note for note as on the record. So the reasons for him not liking touring have to clarified in that it was the above and also the way the bands /tours were managed by the labels and also band 'leaders'. As for Bill well.... "never say never"
raw dope. BB is always on it. 1979, i was on the eve of my 1st show...yes. He was probably the strongest prog act in 78-9 along with yes. 77-9 was a real golden autumn of prog especially. The wine had aged. there was some corkage floating to be sifted, but an era was to end just as the psychedelic 60's turned into the earthy organic 70's. Bruford surfed it all as the percussion master. It is still to my ears - a half century old now, some of the very, very best.
but by 1979 'Fear of Music' was a real thing. the 80's was already birthed imo by Bowie/eno's low/heroes and talking heads/eno 78-9 work. even in review in 2019 nobody talks about the realities of the era than bb.
@@davidryan7386 I agree, and would add in the 3rd Gabriel album to that list. I've noticed a trend of new artists that are just repackaging the outfit's and eccentricities of Bowie/Eno/Roxy/Talking Heads/Gabriel almost wholesale but without anything new, and the fans really don't like being told their new hero is just rehashing 70s art rock in protools.
The very END is HILARIOUS! The interviewer complains about Bruford talking so much about the business.....and Bill puts him in place, HA! And ooooo, that's a withering line at the end about Billy Cobham, whoah! He was obviously pissed off. He had given this kid a great interview, a fascinating one for the ages.....and the kid didn't appreciate it. Great interview, with a shocking ending!
Whew! The ending of that interview was contentious! "That's WHY I talk about it like this.............................................. Time for a soundcheck?"
What Bill says about jazz at 23:35 and the music business at 28:20 is sobering. A typical non musician does not realize the grinding and often unrewarding realities that a musician deals with. And what with a whole generation being brought up on computer music and samples in today's times, it seems as if there is going to be no hope for the true aspiring musician in the future.
Great interview. He's totally spot-on about what was wrong with U.K., and I've heard as much from Terry Bozzio. Hilarious that within a year, he'd be back with Fripp, playing under the name King Crimson. But it's also great that that incarnation of Crimson was totally the sound of what would become the 80s, it definitely wasn't of the 70s.
I've always ragged on pop music and the like. It's not that none of it is artistic or of high quality. All music exists within certain parameters. If you venture outside of those parameters you run the risk of losing some of the general audience, but it's the nature of the beast. You can't have one without the existence of the other. It's probably the best scenario imaginable, this side of heaven, the good and the bad of it. Not that Bill, as he said, is complaining...it's just how it is. You persevere and gain the value that you're in it for. Some want the quick returns and some are willing to sacrifice or suffer longer in hopes of something of even deeper value. Bruford = deeper value.
True. Although, the seeds for MTV were all around. Midnight Special, Don Kirschner's Rock Show, Soul Train & yes, even American Bandstand.... Night Flight was regularly showing rock concerts on USA (Where I'd 1st seen Yessongs) and so on. I also remember a cable show called Video Concert Hall that was on weekdays around 4pm or so. All pre-MTV videos that would be on MTV in a year or so.... But MTV was a whole new proposition. I loved the early vids from Genesis (Turn it on Again, Follow You/Follow Me), The Pretenders (Tattooed Love Boys, Brass in Pocket), Tom Petty & The HB's (Refugee, Here Comes My Girl), Asia, Nazareth, The Who, J. Geils Band, and on & on. MTV's influence on me still shows in that my heart, to this day, throbs for one Chrissie Hynde. Jeez....she was smokin' !! 🚬😎
My very first internet post was in an AOL group around 1994, asking if The Unknown John Clark was really Allan Holdsworth. And if not, how can I hear more? I got into Allan back in the early 80's and I was sure, for the longest time that "The Unknown John Clark" was actually Allan. I thought that he must have been under some other contract and had to use a different name. It sounded like him, but not as exciting. But closer than anyone else I'd ever heard.
Big Bruford *and* Cobham fan here. I don't really know. Cobham had a string of solo albums on Columbia up to when this interview was made; B.C. didn't seem like a "sellout album," does it?
@@hubbsllc No, that's not it. He's suggesting that Cobham got himself into some serious financial trouble because he wasn't paying attention to the business side of things.
@@srb-ef3zs It did seem rather personal . I don’t think Bill always came across so well in interviews back then. He actually sounded a bit stressed out by the business and I don’t blame him for that. Also his passion was undeniable.
A bit of bloviating on Bill's part. I'm sure Bill has great respect for Cobham as an artist and a human being, but it seems Cobham didn't handle his career so intelligently at some point, apparently in a major way. I think it's notable that that interviewer had set Bill off with a less than thoughtful question, just prior, which moved Bill even to a bit of profanity, which you don't hear often from him. At that point I think Bill didn't like where the interview was taking him and saw a good reason to end it.
@@rembeadgc Perhaps but still a VERYYY foolish comment on the part of Bruford despite the reasons. Also, this reflects TERRIBLY on Bill any way you slice it because his insult is directed toward one of the most influential drummers of the past 50 years, Billy Cobham; way more influential than Bruford actually.
@@rembeadgc Mr. Bruford should keep a lid on that bloviating, especially when he's directing it a drummer who is much more innovative and important in the history of jazz and jazz/rock drumming than he.
@@rickvenlo1362 HMMM. Again, whether he had a point business wise or not, he was COMPLETELY out of line calling Cobham, a MUCH more accomplished drummer with the kind of jazz pedagogy Bruford WISHES he actually had, a moron. He ABSOLUTELY should have apologized. He caught his own uppity and condescending self and realize he should apologize. Still can't play jazz though, you don't swing Bill!!! Sorry, stick to progressive rock.
Thanks for posting this incredible interview. The band Bruford's music is some of the finest in my opinion, and definitely on my desert island list. I wonder why to this day why John Clark is still "unknown". Not anyone can just hop in there and replace Allan Holdsworth. Makes me wonder if he, like Allan, had a personality that does not jive with the whole showbiz scene, and shied away and went and got a job or something.
John was phenomenal and certainly did not disappear from music after Bruford. Quite the opposite, he became the guitarist, and later musical director, for a very famous British pop artist known as Cliff Richard. Essentially John stayed with Cliff until John chose to retire a few years ago. I tracked him down and via email learnt a lot of interesting information. He is another of those musical geniuses that was humble about his talent. And lest people forget, he did a stellar job of replacing Allan, and it is prescient to note that, in the booklet accompanying the recent Bruford box set, Jeff Berlin made it very clear that he did not feel there was any drop in quality or excitement for the audience by John stepping into Allan's shoes. I do wish John had done more fusion type music but he can't be criticized for maintaining his substantial gig with Cliff for the rest of his career.
GREAT interviews!
Wonderful
John Wetton must have listened to this.. "Cutting it Fine" sounds like a good idea for a song.. thanks Bill!!
Bill: Allan doesn't like to tour.
A year or so later Allan is on a perpetual tour for the rest of his life.
Bill: Don't call me jazz and I won't be working with Fripp.
A couple years later he's back in King Crimson, then also his jazz band Earthworks.
Well he was right that he would be around although now he's retired. I'm just glad I got to witness some of it live.
yes.
To be clear after many years as a sideman AH grew to not like being told how to play and what to do as far as creativity and pounding the gig pavement nite after nite. Having to play the same solos note for note as on the record. So the reasons for him not liking touring have to clarified in that it was the above and also the way the bands /tours were managed by the labels and also band 'leaders'. As for Bill well.... "never say never"
and he calls Cobham am imbecile...... pffft
raw dope. BB is always on it. 1979, i was on the eve of my 1st show...yes.
He was probably the strongest prog act in 78-9 along with yes. 77-9 was a real golden autumn of prog especially. The wine had aged. there was some corkage floating to be sifted, but an era was to end just as the psychedelic 60's turned into the earthy organic 70's.
Bruford surfed it all as the percussion master. It is still to my ears - a half century old now, some of the very, very best.
i'll add genesis in there too.
but by 1979 'Fear of Music' was a real thing. the 80's was already birthed imo by Bowie/eno's low/heroes and talking heads/eno 78-9 work.
even in review in 2019 nobody talks about the realities of the era than bb.
@@davidryan7386 I agree, and would add in the 3rd Gabriel album to that list.
I've noticed a trend of new artists that are just repackaging the outfit's and eccentricities of Bowie/Eno/Roxy/Talking Heads/Gabriel almost wholesale but without anything new, and the fans really don't like being told their new hero is just rehashing 70s art rock in protools.
The very END is HILARIOUS! The interviewer complains about Bruford talking so much about the business.....and Bill puts him in place, HA! And ooooo, that's a withering line at the end about Billy Cobham, whoah! He was obviously pissed off. He had given this kid a great interview, a fascinating one for the ages.....and the kid didn't appreciate it. Great interview, with a shocking ending!
Spot on - what a brilliant way of ending it - no nonsense.
Whew! The ending of that interview was contentious! "That's WHY I talk about it like this.............................................. Time for a soundcheck?"
One of a Kind is a perfect album. So is KC's Red.
Interesting views about King Crimson, Bruford, Hatfield and The North, Gong, Pierre Moerlen's Gong, National Health, Uk, Allan Holdsworth
A most profound interview.
Great interview
What Bill says about jazz at 23:35 and the music business at 28:20 is sobering. A typical non musician does not realize the grinding and often unrewarding realities that a musician deals with. And what with a whole generation being brought up on computer music and samples in today's times, it seems as if there is going to be no hope for the true aspiring musician in the future.
You must read his book !!
Great interview. He's totally spot-on about what was wrong with U.K., and I've heard as much from Terry Bozzio. Hilarious that within a year, he'd be back with Fripp, playing under the name King Crimson. But it's also great that that incarnation of Crimson was totally the sound of what would become the 80s, it definitely wasn't of the 70s.
“It’s time for sound check now” 😂
I've always ragged on pop music and the like. It's not that none of it is artistic or of high quality. All music exists within certain parameters. If you venture outside of those parameters you run the risk of losing some of the general audience, but it's the nature of the beast. You can't have one without the existence of the other. It's probably the best scenario imaginable, this side of heaven, the good and the bad of it. Not that Bill, as he said, is complaining...it's just how it is. You persevere and gain the value that you're in it for. Some want the quick returns and some are willing to sacrifice or suffer longer in hopes of something of even deeper value. Bruford = deeper value.
So Bill predicted MTV and the 80s.....
True. Although, the seeds for MTV were all around. Midnight Special, Don Kirschner's Rock Show, Soul Train & yes, even American Bandstand....
Night Flight was regularly showing rock concerts on USA (Where I'd 1st seen Yessongs) and so on. I also remember a cable show called Video Concert Hall that was on weekdays around 4pm or so. All pre-MTV videos that would be on MTV in a year or so....
But MTV was a whole new proposition. I loved the early vids from Genesis (Turn it on Again, Follow You/Follow Me), The Pretenders (Tattooed Love Boys, Brass in Pocket), Tom Petty & The HB's (Refugee, Here Comes My Girl), Asia, Nazareth, The Who, J. Geils Band, and on & on.
MTV's influence on me still shows in that my heart, to this day, throbs for one Chrissie Hynde.
Jeez....she was smokin' !!
🚬😎
My very first internet post was in an AOL group around 1994, asking if The Unknown John Clark was really Allan Holdsworth. And if not, how can I hear more? I got into Allan back in the early 80's and I was sure, for the longest time that "The Unknown John Clark" was actually Allan. I thought that he must have been under some other contract and had to use a different name. It sounded like him, but not as exciting. But closer than anyone else I'd ever heard.
Anyone know what billy cobham did that bill was talking about at the end when he called him out lol
Big Bruford *and* Cobham fan here. I don't really know. Cobham had a string of solo albums on Columbia up to when this interview was made; B.C. didn't seem like a "sellout album," does it?
hubbsllc yeah same here i have yet to really find out what he meant by that, maybe Bill had some misconception of Cobham at the time
@@hubbsllc No, that's not it. He's suggesting that Cobham got himself into some serious financial trouble because he wasn't paying attention to the business side of things.
@@Bawookles exactly. Was not a personal attack on BC per se.
@@srb-ef3zs It did seem rather personal . I don’t think Bill always came across so well in interviews back then. He actually sounded a bit stressed out by the business and I don’t blame him for that. Also his passion was undeniable.
miodzio
Commerce ruins music.
he called Cobham an IMBECILE at 29:22!!! Really?????? hmmmmmm.......
A bit of bloviating on Bill's part. I'm sure Bill has great respect for Cobham as an artist and a human being, but it seems Cobham didn't handle his career so intelligently at some point, apparently in a major way. I think it's notable that that interviewer had set Bill off with a less than thoughtful question, just prior, which moved Bill even to a bit of profanity, which you don't hear often from him. At that point I think Bill didn't like where the interview was taking him and saw a good reason to end it.
@@rembeadgc Perhaps but still a VERYYY foolish comment on the part of Bruford despite the reasons. Also, this reflects TERRIBLY on Bill any way you slice it because his insult is directed toward one of the most influential drummers of the past 50 years, Billy Cobham; way more influential than Bruford actually.
@@rembeadgc Mr. Bruford should keep a lid on that bloviating, especially when he's directing it a drummer who is much more innovative and important in the history of jazz and jazz/rock drumming than he.
@@vbassone hmmm 🤔
Bill later apologized for such harshness. His point was correct in its business basis though.
So many struggled
BC being one.
@@rickvenlo1362 HMMM. Again, whether he had a point business wise or not, he was COMPLETELY out of line calling Cobham, a MUCH more accomplished drummer with the kind of jazz pedagogy Bruford WISHES he actually had, a moron. He ABSOLUTELY should have apologized. He caught his own uppity and condescending self and realize he should apologize. Still can't play jazz though, you don't swing Bill!!! Sorry, stick to progressive rock.