How to Record Heavy Drums - Dealing with Hat Bleed
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- Опубліковано 6 лис 2019
- Recording acoustic drums? The Hi Hat can be a real problem! Here's a few simple tips to minimize that horrible bleed.
With Bruno Valverde from ANGRA!
Grab the tracks used in this video & mix them yourself!
spectremedia.ca/download-free...
Earthworks Drum Mics: bit.ly/2oWHBuB
DM20: bit.ly/2CngWKv
SR25: bit.ly/36GpQ3D
SR20LS bit.ly/36JH684
1176 Compressor: bit.ly/2K0pon3
Reaper skin is "Fusion Beta"
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
Damn. Your show just got alot better. Great combination of moving cam around studio, steady cam adjusting and describing equipment, and just when i thought some computer screen time would help, bamm, minute 10:05
me at 5 am "im gonna go to bed"
youtube: how to record heavy drums
me: alright ill stay up
what about drummer bleed? we throw sharp things at him whenever he doesnt play in time and his blood gets all over the mics.
Aaron Devoy I have the same problem with drummer bleed !! Except throwing things is the only way to get him to stop !!! Over head mics and sandwich bags with twist ties over the end of the mics keeps the blood out . Also heavy weights on the bottom of boom extensions helps make them easier to set up again after I jump into the kit too beat him.
@@gilbertspader7974 how do you keep the sandwich bags from muffling the sound? I find that it kills the high end.
Our drummer is making funny sounds and sometimes even talking to himself. You can't eq that out...
@@xXValomatXx have you tried a ball gag?
Journey of Awesome Use a bright mic like the Lewitt instead of 57 and put mic in drum to help blood proof .
Holy hell, youve lost some weight. Keep it up man!
Damn, the kit sounds so nice, even without any processing
Nice to see Bruno in this vid! It makes me proud of being Brazilian.
Before I recorded in August, I watched your How To Record Heavy Drums tutorials religiously and I gotta say, even before they were mixed, they sounded much better than they ever had in the past! Thank you for your tutorials!
Happy to help!
Phenomenal drummer. He plays with great dynamics and does some tasty syncopations like Carter Beauford or John Blackwell. Love that mic combination too. Awesome content all around
More vids like this! detailed stuff about kicks, toms, overheads rooms etc. One of your best vids in the last year imo :D
Wow, great to see the limitations of the SM 57, I've been fighting the same dead sound you have. Thank you for the EQ suggestions!
Tutorials like this are why I watch your channel more than any other. Please Keep them coming!
I love when you do hands on practical stuff like this Glenn! 👍🏻
I’d love to see more videos on how to mix and record drums. I don’t really have access to a full drum set or even a set of mics for this purpose, so being shown good starting points and basic fundamentals is great.
I would have loved to see you EQ the close 57 to sound like the earthworks THEN compare the bleed between the two once the 57 had been eq'd...
“Why don’t we record in two weeks and you go home and practice your ass off” 🤣 Honest facts. And seriously.. sometimes you’re not ready for the part. You have to work for it. Love it.
On a side note, saw an older video of yours a while back, but the weight loss is really noticable man! Congrats!
Good to see the next installment in this series!
Excellent, Glenn. Always the eternal bugaboo with recording heavy music.
Thanks Glenn, this is the video i have been waiting for! You rock!
Yeah, the 76 on the snare catches every little snap from the drummer!
Most excellent vid! Mercy for the downloads!
You’re welcome!
Love this in-depth stuff Glenn!
I've seen Nollys post and was waiting for someone to try it out. This is absolutely sick
The drummer makes the most difference. Love it!
hey man i can tell your diet is going well! great vids as always thanks for the tips i still need to buy a sm57 for my snare i loved how it sounded
Great video! Your tips help out people not just in the metal genre because you've got a great ear.
Having Bruno on the show absolutely makes the episode without a doubt! And of course, very helpful and informative advice from the Engineering Maestro!
RC32 Bruno is just incredible to work with!
@@SpectreSoundStudios I perfectly agree!
Great video, Glenn.
Another great vid Glenn! Would love to know your approach to bottom miking snare drums. I think it would be an interesting addendum - cranking the top end vs blending in the bottom mic and the accompanying phase issues. Good shit as always bro!
Good point about the proximity effect on the snare mic. I've always had my snare sounding very dark when recording, going to try putting the mic a little farther away. Using the Lewitt drum mics btw, great stuff, and doesn't break the bank!
Not a producer at all but this video is just fascinating. Keep educating us Glenn!
Very impressed with the Lewitt kick mic.
Kick ass video Glenn!
Another great vid dude! much love from PEI canada
Also that earthworks on the snare with the 1176...... love it. The bleed is way more manageable and snare sounds great.
We’re just gonna pretended we didn’t see the line 6 spider 2 in the corner? Lol.
I hope you plan to give that the hammer of truth Glenn!!!
Hey, leave my amp alone! At least it's got tubes in it! :P
If that's an old Line 6 Spider Valve, then that's one of the GREATEST tube modeling amps ever made behind the Johnson Millennium.
Kill Everyone I was unaware the made a valve (and or tube) version.
@@nerdsforcardgames The "spidervalve" was the tube version. And it was one of the best "hybrid" tube amps ever made.
Kill Everyone I will check it out. Thanks for the info!
That expensive mike sounds great but I was nicely surprised by good´ol SM57! Great video Glenn and nice to see young rock drummer using traditional grip. Buddy would be pround, haha...
Metal drummer playing traditional grip. I've never seen this before.
Just out Jason Costa from ATR, monster metal drummer and he plays exclusively in traditional grip, blastbeats and all.
Nick Pierce (Unearth, ex-The Faceless) wonderful drummer who plays traditional grip. ua-cam.com/video/kErZRbPbwtY/v-deo.html
I started using traditional grip for metal after marching band, it took a while to get used to but it's a lot of fun to play!
Some bois just can't get enough of this sweet carpal tunnel syndrome eh
A really interesting video Glenn. Good examples of how to adjust the drums and recording process.
In my recordings, I don't see the problem with having hat bleed into the snare mic. Maybe my drummer doesn't play the hats too loud and I like the sound of real drums? I double mic my snare with a top and side, maybe that's a factor also... all the same, liked the presentation here.
FUCK YES GLENN! 🤟This is hands-down the most straightforward and helpful video for drum mic placement ever made. More like this please! 👍 👍
Wicked drummer! Nice one guys :) cheers
Really like that Earthworks Mic.
Have you tried the Granelli G5790? You can get a 57 in some really tight places and have the null of the mic aimed right at the hats with that mic. Great video Glenn!!
GREAT INFORMATION!!!! DRUMMER HAS SOME SERIOUS POCKET!!!! LOVE IT!
Nice drumming!
Perfect timing. I'm actually about to start recording my band's EP on Monday, and it will be my first time recording and mixing live drums, so you uploaded this video at the BEST time possible for me
Parallax Sound good luck!
Tell us how it goes
Damn, this is a good recording! I downloaded the files and played around with the mix in cubase. Sounds absolutely killer, no need to add samples or even noise gates. Can I send the mix somewhere to you so you can hear it and give me some tips? Maybe a future video idea.
I've run exactly into that high-hat bleed problem when mixing drums from a small punk duo who recorded in a practice room with minimalistic cheap equipment.
I cheated my way by using a transient designer to enhance the snare and overtake the cymbals bleed.
I'm still working on the song and haven't yet resorted to using samples...
Anyway, cool video !
Due to a skin-desease my skin is very fast in getting hurt and i didn't do rimshots till a couple of years ago as they put alot more pressure to the hands and fingers. I got told after a live gig "just try it out, it sounds better!" and so i did. And indeed, rimshots are the way to let the snare cut through a mix, wether it is live or in the (home) studio :)
Thanks for the good content and greetings from Germany!
Are baseball gloves an option?
@@SpectreSoundStudios Well, i manage to play drums without getting damaged that often (even by doing rimshots) it's just a practice thing. I tried drummer gloves for a while but it turned out it destroys the feel for me when i'm playing, i just can't get a tight enough grip on my drumsticks.
Anyway, thanks for the replie and hope you're doing well :)
Shout out to the drummer. Nice playing 👌
Love your show, mate! I noticed that when you had the SSL channel up on the snare, the red clip light was coming up sometimes. I have the same problem as I tend to use a parametric EQ plugin for subtractive EQ first, and then use the SSL channel to do preliminary dynamics and highlight the frequencies that I like. Because I am mostly adding EQ on the SSL, it tends to drive it into the red. Should I worry about this, or is there enough headroom to not worry about it?
BTW, great to see the success you're having on Keto. I lost about 30 pounds on it myself. You do know that you would lose another 5 pounds if you cut that hair...
There's definitely a trade off between the 57 and the Earthworks with the amount of brightness vs hat bleed. I've been having good luck with the Slate drum gate for removing a lot of cymbal bleed.
Great insight.
One trick I use is the hats themselves. I tried a set of Zildjian A 12" "Special Recording" hats. They would never cut across the room in live use, but in the studio, they are killer. Only 12", and thinner than Zildjain New Beats, so they aren't so bright, so when you do add some top end to the snare mic, the hats aren't biting your face off.
I've heard about that! Do you have an example somewhere we can listen to?
@@mckevrock I don't do a lot of metal (mostly soundtracks and background music), but this one is a little on the heavier side. soundcloud.com/mindshaft-music/on-the-run
great drummer!
I haven't tried it on my GH5s yet, but I'm told if you have your shutter speed set to 179 degrees instead of 180 degrees, the autofocus works insanely better. I'm also hearing that the next firmware update should be fixing it. I tend to do tripod recording, so I tend to use manual focus.
Just figured I'd throw it out there.
By the way, the placement of the hihat is important, as you mentioned in a past video. Upper is good, but setting it a bit farther away from the drummer also works (still making sure the rear side of the mic is pointing at those offending cymbals). I personally hate having the hat close to me.
Hey Glenn! Was curious about your experience with Woods of Ypres. They've been a favorite band of mine for about a year now, and wanted to know what albums you worked with them on and your overall opinion working with the band or any stories you'd like to tell. "The Pursuit of the Sun" is definitely my favorite and if you had a hand in that, good on you! Cheers from Florida!
Hey Glenn, would you recommend using a gate keyed to the hihat's fundamental frequency before or after the 1176 going into the console, on the snare's recording chain? Would that help eliminate some hihat bleed or would it be a bad tradeoff by cutting into the snare's natural sound? Thanks man.
hey glenn, i remember once i was assisting for an engineer friend of mine and he pulled out some sort of shield he just purchased that he applied near the snare mic clip (just like you would place a pop filter for instance), this shield covered the snare mic on the side between the snare and the hat, and i remember it working wonders, the hat bleed was pretty much gone. don't remember the exact model nor the brand, but have you ever seen/tried any of those?
Great demonstration Glenn!!!But what happenswhen the song has also along with the normal metal beats, Blastbeats...cos it's not possible to play rimshots on the blastbeats at 200bpm....what would you do then?Also if you hit that hard as those rimshots in the video, when the blast beats are gonna come,they will disapear.
You should get your hands on the sv33 vocal mic from earthworks and check it out on bass drum.
Going closer but flattening out the mic compensates for the low end boost proximity and you get the crack back
GLEEENNNN!!! About a decade ago, I tried to track an acoustic kit in my home studio... I used a Shure Beta 52 on kick, an SM 57 on snare, and because I only had 4 inputs at the time, a pair of Audio Technica ATM 63's for overheads. The drummer had a Trash China cymbal that he INSISTED on thrashing the hell out of, overloading every mic input. I tried everything I knew to solve the problem.. to no avail. The session was a disaster... ending before it started. I have steered clear of live drum kits ever since..... PLEASE!!!! How do you control wild drummers and their kits?? What did I miss..??
Aguante Bruno!!!
Hey Glen.
When you're recording in Harmony, do you use the large faders to monitor mix or do you just use the DAW?
I know this is just for tracking but that first EarthWorks mic, hit it with a gate with a -15db range, a light standard compressor, then “reamp” it with the 1176 and there you have the thick ghost notes and significantly less bleed.
God dammit! You nailed it Glenn! I couldn't articulate why exactly I preferred mixing from the drummer's perspective until today! SO I CAN PLAY AIR DRUMS!!!
Great info, very helpful. One thing you mentioned about mixing from the drummer's perspective. Do you usually pan the drums from the drummer's perspective or the audience?
Drummers perspective. Way more fun!
Would you use Drumatom 2 for bleed? Obviously better to get the sound nearest when tracking, but would like to know your opinion. BTW - I agree with other folks, this is another level, really want more of this sort of thing dude!
I'm not a famous engineer and I have no "street cred" when it comes to mixing. I've mixed a few things that I got complimented on in a professional environment but you've never heard anything I've mixed. That being said, after watching this video, my feeling is that you're sponsored by Earthworks. When you compare with the SM57, to my ear, I'd prefer the SM57 because what I hear from that mic would be easier to achieve the sound you're looking for than with the Earthworks mic. It damn near accomplishes rejecting the Hi Hat bleed in it's raw form, because of it's directional nature. You'll have to make a better argument in my mind. Everything Earthworks makes is phenomenal, but I'd choose the workhorse 57 if this were the scenario.
God I love that mic. Makes the 57 sound like a radio shack... (Looks up Earthworks kick mic price)............
I guess I love my SM57 again...😭
I barely know anyting about recording, just asking - I've seen people surround and isolate the snare drum mic with studio foam for I suppose less bleed from the surrounding instruments. Is that a bad idea? Is it comparable to having a blanket or something alike on the bass drum, while having it micd up under the blanket? Very interesting video with nice comparisons by the way!
Glenn, is there a reason why you don't face the back of the snare mic directly at the hihat for maximum rejection? If hihat bleed is your main concern then wouldn't that be the logical thing to do? Cheers from Czech Republic.
OnStage is the only brand I buy. Never had a problem with them and they're my first go-to if I'm looking for something. But then, I treat my gear with respect and handle it properly.
I actually use the HH bleed in the snare to get the hat some presence in the mix this way i can go for more snare sound in the Overheads
Have you tried a single-side addressed mic like an AudioTechnica ATM450 for both snare? Really thin to keep out of the way and lets the drummer keep the hats where they are comfortable playing. Then use a dynamic underneath?
Think I had a pair of those... not that great, unfortunately.
Any advice for miking the bottom of the snare? I use a C02 condenser, but I kinda just point it directly at the underside of the snare. Any nuance in how I'm positioning the mic that I should consider? Thanks!
Your making drumming interesting . Congratulations , very impressive so useful . Now how do you download tracks ????
Follow the link!
I need to get some good sounding hi-hats for my drum kit but don’t know much about cymbals and hats. The hats I have on there are clanky/ harsh / awful. Not looking for highest end possible, just some good sounding hats that will sound good for some rock music!! Any help is greatly appreciated!
grande Bruninho
SO lucky to have a great drummer that can HIT a drum consistently & on command. I'm constantly fighting lesser drummers that simply can NOT hit a snare the same way two times in a row.....
11:45 directly compared to the previous non-rimshot, it actually sounds like the opposite of one would expect. Suddenly all the high frequency fidelity of the snare is gone and it sounds like a plastic bucket being hit. Previously you heard the snare breathe a lot more, and with the rimshots that seemed to be completely gone. Well, at least that's one of the benefits of not playing cross handed but open handed and the hihat is way all over there on the other side :) What about just hitting the skin harder or closer to the rim? There is a lot of sound in a snare, but most seem to be just concentrating on the center, which also is the prime area for ringing.
I remember you mentioning you mic up the snare bottom too. Have you experimented with different mics down there as well? :) Last example with the Earthworks and the compressor sounds best to my ears, but that also has that excessive hat bleed... Yup, micing up live drums is it's own form of art :) I wonder though; would it be possible with a combination of microphone + placement that would give a desired snare sound AND the desired hi-hat sound? Also brings me to the thought that many drummers focus on their snare choices left, right and center, but the variety in hihat sounds and builds are often overlooked...
It’s more than just the snare mic, however. Grab the tracks & see what I mean.
@@SpectreSoundStudios I did! And I guess it just comes down to personal preferences, maybe? I needed to tame the 240hz resonant spike a lot more on the rimshot mic and I had to gently scoop out the 550Hz range to get rid of the "plastic" sound. I do prefer my snare to be snappy, almost whip like to cut through everything evently, but with a good amount of dense rattle to give it some character. That's why I tend to individually compress the bottom mic fairly heavily before it goes elsewhere. I either haven't had the right mic or mic placement to get a satisfying snare rattle that doesn't sound like shaking nails in a plastic box or it's just that some snare wires simply aren't to my liking. Anyway, for my tastes, the Earthworks beat the SM57 by comparison.
I have a question about the overhead and room mics: On one it sounds like the snare is coming more from the left and at the other more from the right. I suppose that is an intended effect to give everything a more enveloping character? When I solo them, they seem to be a little out of phase though. I feel this weird "pressure" in my ear ( or the absence of pressure? Hard to describe) when I listen to something that is misaligned in phase.
I wanted to do a video for you on that with an attempt to separate the stereo tracks and try to align them, but I first have to figure out how to grab audio out of Cubase while video recording without installing 2 to 3 extra programs or jumping through other seemingly unnecessary hoops...
Very useful video, and the mics are awesome. For €500 ish per unit, they have to be...
awesome glenn, sonnox gate may be killer on this, have you tried the demo
very curious about the 57 on top n sr20 on bott
looks like pro mark shira kashi oak sticks too, they are very diff on skins and metals regarding the minor details that comps drag up in the mix
I’ll check it out!
Did you use a noise gate pre recording on the track with the desired EQ gate frequency of the snare? I know I worded this a bit funny xD
Glenn, my band is going to record our EP next weekend. What can we do to make our engineers job a breeze? Any tips would help out.
And yes, guitars and kits are getting set up before we get to the studio and have been rehearsing our EP for the last couple of months! Cheers!
Jason C so obviously im not Glenn, but as an engineer who has done a few sessions with people who have sometimes not been quite as prepared as they should be, heres what i have to say...
1) make sure you have every detail of the song worked out and have at least recorded a demo to reflect on. Its all too common to hear something in the studio space and go 'thats not how you played it in the practice room?' Because the acoustics are better, and that will eat up a lot of time.
Are you recording to a click? Do you know the tempos and time signatures if so? It might be an idea to send all of this to the engineer so they can have it set up and ready to go before you step in the door (especially if you have changing tempos) (also make sure you can play at the tempo the song is in. Its all good saying its a 200bpm song, but if your drummer cant play the blastbeat section at 200bpm, you might want to rethink. Same for the key for your singer.)
Do you have your solos and harmonies already worked out? These things will always eat up time if they aren't prepared first.
2) please have paper copies of your lyrics. When that red light goes on, you loose 30% of your ability to perform and that might mean you forget what line comes next or the order of a verse, and you dont wanna ruin the golden take because you got confused and sung a hybrid of verse 1 and 3. Its also helpful for the engineer to have a copy to reference, and tick lines off as you nail them.
3) know what to expect. Im assuming the engineer has already had a conversation with you guys about how you want to record (ie live in a room, one at a time, etc) and if you want any production advice or just someone to record you guys. If not, decide whats gonna work better for you guys and let the engineer know what you want to do. If you dont want time alignment, or samples, or autotune, make sure you specify that. If you do, specify too. The fewer assumptions the engineer has to make, the closer the record will be to what you had in mind (probably)
4) trust the engineer. (Within reason)
If you guys are hiring a studio and engineer, trust his instincts and dont try to fight him at every turn. (Line 6 vs 5150 springs to mind) It will make the session go so much smoother and you will probably get a better result. (Providing the engineer understands what you are going for. It might be worth providing a few reference tracks to help him understand what your vision is for the ep.)
And of course (obviously), leave the rockstar egos, drink, drugs, girlfriends etc at the door. You're there to do a job, not be an arsehole! Dont do anything that you wouldn't do at your main job, and make sure you pay when you say you will (with real money)
Sorry if some of these seem really obvious
Hope this helps though, and that your session is awesome! Good luck!
Oh shit Bruno!!!!
How would you tackle a left-handed drummer? The hats on the right hand side and the snare mic pointing almost opposite to it. Would you mic up the snare differently?
With lefty drummers, you place everything mirrored, including the mics (except for the overheads and rooms, of course), so if you look at the part where he's moving the snare mic on a mirror, that's exactly how it should be done. In the end it doesn't make much of a difference from an engineering perspective whether the drummer is righty or lefty.
Would have been a good opportunity to show the effect of raising the hi hats even farther from the snare. There appeared to be another inch or two they could have been raised, assuming the stand wasn't already topped-out.
Hey Glen , would love to know how you go about gating your snare ?
Great video! But, I was expecting more information on how to deal with hi-hat bleed while mixing, & less of a mic shootout...
Nolly? He's always the man
So in conclusion to stop hihat bleed. Get a breath takenly expensive snare drum, get a extremely talented drummer, get a set of expensive microphones and finally put the whole lot through a very expensive compressor.... and yes I'm a massive knob. Great video.
What about microphone shields between the hithat and the snare mic?
One of the most essential tutorial videos on the internet! Bravo. Hi-hats have been making my life a misery for years. What do you think of using bits of foam to shield the snare mic from the hi hats? Are those products just snake oil? Thanks.
Oh and stop torturing us with how great the Earthworks mics are though. That’s a dick move for sure! Aren’t they like really really expensive?
Need to try the foam thing
great vid glen.ps he is a great drummer.live he most likely sounds amazing,
I know this may be a TAD outta your budget, but have y’all ever considered the May Internal Miking System???
Hey Glenn , how would one record drums by themselves. I just can't seem to figure it out logistically. I would love to record real drums but my DAW/control room is upstairs , my drums are downstairs. Running cables is not the issue. I just can't imagine running up and down stairs to hit start and stop on my DAW every time I fuck up. I really don't want to move my computer downstairs and I can't get a friend to run my DAW while I'm on the drum kit, because of my work schedule, I'm usually recording at 2 in the morning. Any thoughts/ideas would be great!!!
Cheers from Maine
If you have a Smartphone, you can use a software to control your PC remotely!
@@user-ii8od4wu5p what app would that be to control my PC ???.ive search but didn't see anything
Hey Glenn, I don’t have the space or the money to record acoustic drums so I use an electric set. Is an electric set going to be adequate? Is it better than a computer drummer?
Marshall Pjesky I tried this with my Roland TD-25 and the main problem is you end up with a single track. You can’t process anything independently unless you get Rolands flagship model which is super expensive. What I ended up doing was using the e-kit to record midi that triggers a sample library. Leaps and bounds better but I guess it depends on what e-kit you have
I dont know if you have tried this, But put 2 mics on the snare both on top. I put a sm57 and a sm81 right next to eachother and I am really surprised on the results.
Yes.
Dumb question here but what's wrong with hi hat bleed?