Awww love you and love GenSpec. A total lovefest for me. I also have a lot of funny views of Argentina via being an American studying abroad in Chile. Gotta love the neighborly rivalries and stereotypes!
This is a great discussion and the connection to cultism is very clear. The other thing not discussed is the effect of childhood trauma (not the AGPs as they have sexual paraphilias...)
I worked at a gender clinic in San Francisco for a decade, and I knew , deep down, that it wasn’t working. The people came out more miserable than they went in. They were in the most supportive environment on earth and yet they were so unhappy. We and they were told the only reason they were unhappy with the gender affirming hormones and surgery was due to social stigma. There was no social stigma in San Francisco. They were celebrated, not just accepted. So this didn’t make sense. Even then I still repeated the narrative, and when a friends son came out as a woman, I shamed her for not being ok with this immediately. It took me many years of being away from the community to finally realize how much my friend needed to be able to grieve her sons loss, and how much I had been indoctrinated into the cult despite even seeing with my own eyes how much it wasn’t possible to do what they claimed they were able to do.
The outcomes for trans people has always been bad. MtF trans have always had high rates of drug addiction, sex work, HIV, and domestic violence. There is a trans ethnic group in the US with a 50% HIV rate.
I'd like to have some opinions of the therapists who diagnosed adult, married men as "transsexuals" and did any of them do what my now ex-husband's therapist did? That is, did you tell the wife she needs to learn how to use various kink equipment and "watch special videos." Because she did that. In my data on 64 trans widows, that is a thing, a trend, this recommendation of "erotic, p-word" imagery to then imitate. They must admit and acknowledge they did this. And still do this. Because it is ritual manipulation and coercive control. Behind the Looking Glass at LIme Soda Films UA-cam channel. Genspect, please do a commentary on Behind the Looking Glass. There is a great deal of information to be derived from trans widows, because we know their modes.
I needed this video. I’m an atheist and l watch atheist UA-camrs who are extremely intelligent like Stephen Woodford and Aron Ra. I find them fascinating when it comes to dismantling religion and religious arguments. They see the cult like behavior in that. But they are blind to the way gender ideology, woke culture, and identity politics on the far left has essentially turned into one big cult. There are people are on the far left who are willing to completely cut off friends and family just for voting for Trump … and they can’t see how it’s the same thing as Religious people cutting people out/ex communicating them over whatever perceived slight or infraction that’s unacceptable for their religion/world view. It’s wild.
Yeah, watching the fracture of the atheist movement with atheism+ was wild, back then. You could see a video of someone pointing out all the classical fallacies used by religious people to defend their irrationality, then turn and use the exact same ones a second later to defend the most batshit feminism.
@@kbeetles I've never really heard a sensible definition of cult that would include all the things people frequently call cults but exclude every major religion - I think the best thing is what he said at 29:30, to accept 'cult' as a sliding scale that includes all sorts of social groups. Realistically though it seems to be just a word people use when they when they want to give a negative connotation to a group.
@@kbeetles But any ideology can have cultists pushing it, be it religious or secular. Because it is about how human nature is. We used to have religions as moral ideologies. Now we have secular moral systems. The ideologies changed...the human brain mechanisms when it comes to defending them have stayed pretty much the same.
Verrry interesting and informative. I'm almost 40 and female and in my young teens while going through puberty I suffered immensely. Not only of physical pain menstruating but such bad emotional pain that I could feel it physically. I wailed and cried at times and just, ugh... it's so hard and feeling like you're possessed by an evil spirit isn't an understatement. I grew up and went on antidepressants and got better but it wasn't easy. I also woke up to a lot of the corruption in things like the sugar industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the govt. industries, hollywood, etc. pre-covid and when I started seeing this Trans stuff popping up I knew exactly what it was but I couldn't place my finger on it exactly. I fought against it with my friends and family, mostly on social media and I kept saying "I went through this, this isn't how you deal with it!" They laughed at me for the most part because obviously I didn't actually go through it the way they are going through it now but I knew that the kids who are suffering aren't suffering with gender issues and DO NOT NEED gender re-assignment! This video does a good job of helping me understand why I was correct all those years ago.
As a man I might be way off but I feel like this stuff lifted the lid for me on how many different ways the medical industry has been trying to medicalize basically being female. It's led me to other areas like the downsides of the pill and issues with menopause medication as well as how women who become surrogates are subjected to a barrage of invasive procedures. It really worries me as someone who works in education what teen girls might be thinking about perfectly normal or manageable issues.
@@KonynXoXo My experience as a tangential man has been that in literally every case the pill was prescribed they told the girl/woman near nothing about it, it felt like they basically tricked her in order to prevent teen pregnancy, it had a negative impact on hormones/mood/libido and it resolved when they came off it. I also got the distinct impression they sneered at the idea of teaching girls/women about their bodies or dealing with puberty/life by being informed and finding other ways to go through natural processes. They made them feel stupid for asking questions that the "professional" often couldn't answer. Coincidentally your comment made me feel better about buying my fiancée a hot water bottle for her birthday. So thanks. I agree that we need to go back to common sense and natural measures. We are far too overmedicated as a society. Particularly in regards to natural processes.
My post-grad was in ritual and ceremony, and the psychological importance of marking various stages in the life trajectory. We have lost so much in such a short period of time, and our culture is the poorer for it.
The comment re anorexia by the audience member actually answered the question - anorexia is a great example of social contagion AS WELL AS being about trauma + body dysmorphia + trauma...much like trans...and also exorcism...and group s u i c i d e in youth...and cults...
The social contagions from my memory and time on this planet: Goth/Emo Anorexia/bulimia Cutting/self-harm Trans/Gender Only the Trans contagion is supposed and enforced by governments 😢
I was watching the latest Exorcist movie over Halloween. I don't find The Exorcist scary, basically because it seems like the worst the devil can do in those movies is possess some adolescent girls to terrorize their families. And then it became clear to me that all the demon possession movies were basically about the terror of raising girls going through puberty and I was laughing through the rest of the horror film because once I saw it I couldn't unsee it. I was later talking to my Roman Catholic husband who can not tolerate exorcism movies and was terrified of them and I explained the whole girls going through puberty angle to him and he said that I took all of the fear of them from him with that framing and even asked to watch The Exorcist with me. On that note, we do have a tween girls on the cusp of puberty... On a more serious note, I really think the counseling profession needs to start teaching students about social contagions, culture bound syndromes, and to try to be on the look out for the next one to prevent us from going down this path again. As Andrew so rightly points out you see this in different cultures over and over again.
Yes, it would be good for young people to be aware of social contagion, but at a more basic level they should be taught to think critically - as I was, in school, back in the 1970s. They should question everything - not in an arrogant or disruptive way, but by keeping in mind that teachers or preachers who sound very sure of themselves may in fact be wrong.
I used to describe myself as Reagen when I started going through puberty so seeing this comment makes a lot more sense!! The Exorcist is such a great film and it's disappointing how many people refuse to watch it when it's such an important film
Thanks again Andrew. I love your work. I grew up in a family cult (like a lot of kids). I was gaslit and programmed to not have needs, such as: not allowed to have feelings (different to my mother), not to be seen as a burden on my parents (by having an illness or emotional needs), and not being allowed to be or show confidence (as my mentally disabled sibling would shame me and get violent as that was seen as being "up yourself"). Being female was also a problem as my father was a minsogynst. Despite this and many other things like alcoholism, violence, financial abuse, parentification etc etc, I "wasn't allowed to leave" or say anything that might show that some of my parents decisions weren't the best. I always felt and knew that something was wrong...initially I thought it was all me. Then my low key chronic health problems became acute. Long story short. I woke up. I went no contact with all my family. It wasn't anything a therapist said to me as often they invalidating or downplayed my experiences anyway so I stopped going. Plain old physical health issues. I realised only I am responsible for my health...my parents weren't magically going to turn around and start to care. A massive shock. But after about 5 years of inner and outer work, and no contact, I am better, more aware, I see through gaslighting, and I am less panicky.
I've noticed humour is an important device for sounding out ideas. It's a gentle way of suggesting the way something is being perceived might not be quite right.
Well done all. This is why I like conferences like this, because they provide many different angles to look at things. It's not just a big affirmative echo. Superb, more of this please!
The idea that I have to wait for my son, who has congenital heart disease, and is technically very intelligent, and who was already taking hormones when he told us he was "trans," to gradually inch his way down from the "10" on the scale to something closer to zero not only scares the daylights out of me, but also fills me with sharp anger. Life, especially in this case, is not long enough.
It's more than just this idea of intervention. The most common story I've seen of people questioning their gender identity has been the result of a search for belonging - they're people who struggle to fit in with more typical peer groups, who discover ideas like gender transitioning through online fandom spaces, and try to redefine themselves so as to be able to belong to one of these spaces - that's why when you see a friend group made up of LGBT+ people, they're always getting along very well - their identities and their relationships are tied together. If you want to see fewer people interested in transitioning gender, the single best thing you can do is include them. Give them a welcoming community, one that doesn't have barriers to entry, or a purity culture, or a focus on tribalism. People who already feel like they belong in a supportive community don't feel any desire to search for a sense of belonging online.
I'm not sure that genuinely intelligent people are drawn to cults. It could be that our society rewards people with status if they accurately regurgitate what they have been taught. So the cult member may be an academic high achiever while lacking any meaningful insight.
Jolly Heretic Dutton argues that the midwit falls for it. A midwit isn't exactly of middle intelligence. Rather, they are a few IQ points above average, but wish to think they are elite.
I can't help but agree. One of the most infuriating things I've seen Stella and Sasha do is make claims about super intelligent kids getting drawn to this. I've listened to a bunch of these young people and they're naive and superficial at every turn. If I speak to these people online they struggle to write four coherent sentences and even "gender" the thing they obsess about is something the have an incredibly superficial understanding about. They often literally copy and paste instead of thinking for themselves.
Also, Stella’s remark about the loss of ritual reminded me of Yeats’s poem The Second Coming: ‘The blood dimm’d tide is loosed and all around The ceremony of innocence is drowned.’ I’m atheist but it’s such a powerful & universal metaphor.
Enjoyed this thank you🕊 Yes cults are very dangerous and really scary Especially when they are in charge of government’s We all need to aware who that are… Are we awake now🕊
Regarding the first question about whether belief is required in order to be influenced by these cultish beliefs and practices, Dina McMillian PhD s the person to have on this panel, as this is her area of expertise. She's written several books on the subject of manipulation as it intersects with abusive relationships. I believe she was interviewed by the Triggernometry podcast a few years ago.
Here’s a concise way to frame those thoughts for your friend: People often see groups that validate their feelings or offer hope as cult-like, especially when the group seems to adopt unorthodox or extreme positions. We’ve seen this with movements like MAGA, where loyalty to the group can outweigh individual interests. For trans people, it’s a bit different. Many of us grow up seeking acceptance and answers in a world that often misunderstands us. When someone-whether a professional or an ally-offers clarity or hope, it’s natural to embrace it. But that doesn’t make it a cult. Trans people are often highly introspective, grappling with our own understanding of who we are. To outsiders, steps like transitioning might seem like we’re going against our own interests, or subscribing to a “trans ideology.” But for us, these steps are about living authentically, not blindly following a movement. It’s important to separate the human experience of being trans from the broader cultural or political debates.
Love Andrew gold! We need to make you an American citizen come to the somewhat normal USA the Brit’s have seemed to completely gone off the deep end while we are finally slowly backing off of it
@Andrew Gold. It was Abigail Schrier in “Irreversible Damage” who first (?) made the connection with what was happening in previously unseen numbers with young women with ROGD to the anorexia social contagion in HongKong (corrected). At least, that’s where I first read about this lol
I’d like to hear other psychologists riff on the need for ritual, especially in young people. (The idea was introduced to me through the work of Joseph Campbell in “The Power of Myth”)
WPATH's SoC 8 was initially published with munimum ages for specific procedures. It was then withdrawn the ages removed and eunochs are a gender added. It seems there is a need to push and wxpand the extremities into absurdities. I believe the age limits were there because the surgeons were facing difficulties pwrforming radical surgical procedures on prepubescent penis'. But I can't help thinking, this was a case where the ideology was "stretching" its tenuous hold on reality too far such that even the surgeons were having trouble accepting it.
the eunuch chapter was in the initial publication. there was an ethics chapters and age suggestions also. Ethics chapter was removed along with ages.....
Age was removed because surgeons had already performed surgery on young children who fell below the minimum age recommendations and they didn't want that to be used in legal challenges.
What a great talk... Are the "trans allies" also part of the cult? Because if not, can we at least reach them? I'm trying to reach those people moreso, but they seem just as much in the cult as the ones who are actually transitioning... It seems hopeless that unless something directly happens to them that's bad that they'll wake up... which brings me to think women fighting against womens rights won't stop until something bad happens to them directly...
I don't find it surprising that 'intelligent' individuals are taken in by new concepts and ideas, even if they are clearly batshit crazy. Philosophy and social sciences are the academic disciplines that produce many ideas that can be developed to create a cultish like following. Indeed, this is how Socrates was seen, even though he wasn't the evil one. However, the powers that were in ancient Greece saw his growing influence over the youth as a 'cult' that represented a threat to the status quo. We should remember that most status quo are acceptable ones that do not require a revolution. The word "revolution" is the one word that can inspire cult followers to act badly, so the trans phenomenon is a perfect example. It makes doctors and psychiatrists to cause harm and young girls to self-mutilate.
Very dapper, sir 😊❤ Oh, you're so much more than the Haz 'n' Markle stuff. That's how I first heard about you (don't judge). This was very interesting.
While the perceived need for exorcisms can have a social-contagion element to them..... I found this presentation to be deeply disrespectful of indigenous cultures and animist folkways. Like....would anyone say that Christianity is a "social contagion"? Or that Buddhism is a "social contagion"?? The colonial attitude here is astounding. (I'm not necessarily endorsing this particular practice or sect that he's referring to.... but his overall attitude and dismissiveness of things like garlic, smudging, etc is what I am taking issue with)
"The colonial attitude here is astounding." What a dumb way of viewing the world. Exorcism is not indigenous to Argentina. Animist folkways were not even mentioned. You got offended by something you invented in your mind.
I know it'd be fairly easy to talk about patriarchy but in Argentina is kind of blatant. Especially regarding the se xualization of young women and girls.
The only person who is 100% correct on this subject is Kellie Jay Keen!!! Thes two do speak to these travestites, which is good, and arr respecrfull, which is also ok, but than they go allong with the narritive. And that is NOT ok!!!
@Engrave.Danger whats the difference? I mean maga is the cult that's my claim but if u voted for him I can't imagine ur much better. Most ppl who supported him are incapable of substantiating it with facts and reason, most of it is based on feelings and beliefs and that's exactly what this entire channel claims queer ppl are doing
This guys an OP. There's something fishy about how it's collecting and correlating different misinterpretations as if for a greater obfuscation and suppression. Seems too to be pulling the "expert" thing with "cults" while being not that accurate, but appealingly distant.
Andrew Gold needs to organize his thoughts! It goes in so many directions one can't follow. I'm surprised everybody didn't leave and make him a "lonely boy" (LOL) Genspect got Mia to approach the transgender issue from the medical scandal perspective and this guy to approach it from the cult perspective. Maybe Gold can talk MAGA out of not committing acts of violence.
@@unowen-nh9ov There was a famous singer named Andrew Gold who had a hit called "Lonely boy." Gold is big on cults and maybe he could analyze the MAGA movement and talk some people out of committing acts of violence like killing police officers that we saw 4 years ago on January 6th.
@@unowen-nh9ov Don't worry, this is a man who is obsessed about trying to look like a young boy. He literally tricked his way into getting the medical intervention he wanted and yet is arguing that there are too many hurdles.
Andrew Gold is trying his best on this. He strikes me as an amateur, with a very basic understanding of this issue. That’s ok, but I think you should platform more well informed people.
I really loved being at this event. Thanks for watching everyone.
Andrew!!!! Yaaaayyyyyyy
So awesome to see you at this
Love your work Andrew! so great to see you on here! Well done!
Awww love you and love GenSpec. A total lovefest for me. I also have a lot of funny views of Argentina via being an American studying abroad in Chile. Gotta love the neighborly rivalries and stereotypes!
Thank you for being there Andrew I was really excited to here that you’d joined Genspect.
This is a great discussion and the connection to cultism is very clear. The other thing not discussed is the effect of childhood trauma (not the AGPs as they have sexual paraphilias...)
I worked at a gender clinic in San Francisco for a decade, and I knew , deep down, that it wasn’t working. The people came out more miserable than they went in. They were in the most supportive environment on earth and yet they were so unhappy. We and they were told the only reason they were unhappy with the gender affirming hormones and surgery was due to social stigma. There was no social stigma in San Francisco. They were celebrated, not just accepted. So this didn’t make sense. Even then I still repeated the narrative, and when a friends son came out as a woman, I shamed her for not being ok with this immediately. It took me many years of being away from the community to finally realize how much my friend needed to be able to grieve her sons loss, and how much I had been indoctrinated into the cult despite even seeing with my own eyes how much it wasn’t possible to do what they claimed they were able to do.
Yes, how can anyone think cutting off healthy body parts will make the mental state better?
It's a brave thing to face your own mistakes. We should be encouraging more people to really examine their beliefs
oh my! that's so sad...thanks for your honesty here in relating this.
The outcomes for trans people has always been bad. MtF trans have always had high rates of drug addiction, sex work, HIV, and domestic violence. There is a trans ethnic group in the US with a 50% HIV rate.
So no one benefits from gender medicine? Will you get like Jordan Peterson and do birth control too?
I really enjoy Andrew’s unflappable, yet impassioned way of speaking. He is a great interviewer as well.
I follow his channel religiously, please forgive the pun.
I'd like to have some opinions of the therapists who diagnosed adult, married men as "transsexuals" and did any of them do what my now ex-husband's therapist did? That is, did you tell the wife she needs to learn how to use various kink equipment and "watch special videos." Because she did that. In my data on 64 trans widows, that is a thing, a trend, this recommendation of "erotic, p-word" imagery to then imitate. They must admit and acknowledge they did this. And still do this. Because it is ritual manipulation and coercive control. Behind the Looking Glass at LIme Soda Films UA-cam channel. Genspect, please do a commentary on Behind the Looking Glass. There is a great deal of information to be derived from trans widows, because we know their modes.
I needed this video. I’m an atheist and l watch atheist UA-camrs who are extremely intelligent like Stephen Woodford and Aron Ra. I find them fascinating when it comes to dismantling religion and religious arguments. They see the cult like behavior in that. But they are blind to the way gender ideology, woke culture, and identity politics on the far left has essentially turned into one big cult. There are people are on the far left who are willing to completely cut off friends and family just for voting for Trump … and they can’t see how it’s the same thing as Religious people cutting people out/ex communicating them over whatever perceived slight or infraction that’s unacceptable for their religion/world view. It’s wild.
Sorry to disappoint you but cult and religion are not the same.
Yeah, watching the fracture of the atheist movement with atheism+ was wild, back then. You could see a video of someone pointing out all the classical fallacies used by religious people to defend their irrationality, then turn and use the exact same ones a second later to defend the most batshit feminism.
@@kbeetles I've never really heard a sensible definition of cult that would include all the things people frequently call cults but exclude every major religion - I think the best thing is what he said at 29:30, to accept 'cult' as a sliding scale that includes all sorts of social groups. Realistically though it seems to be just a word people use when they when they want to give a negative connotation to a group.
@@kbeetles But any ideology can have cultists pushing it, be it religious or secular. Because it is about how human nature is. We used to have religions as moral ideologies. Now we have secular moral systems. The ideologies changed...the human brain mechanisms when it comes to defending them have stayed pretty much the same.
@@kbeetles they are extremely close really only very small differences
Thank you Stella and Andrew, another interesting conversation
Verrry interesting and informative. I'm almost 40 and female and in my young teens while going through puberty I suffered immensely. Not only of physical pain menstruating but such bad emotional pain that I could feel it physically. I wailed and cried at times and just, ugh... it's so hard and feeling like you're possessed by an evil spirit isn't an understatement.
I grew up and went on antidepressants and got better but it wasn't easy. I also woke up to a lot of the corruption in things like the sugar industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the govt. industries, hollywood, etc. pre-covid and when I started seeing this Trans stuff popping up I knew exactly what it was but I couldn't place my finger on it exactly. I fought against it with my friends and family, mostly on social media and I kept saying "I went through this, this isn't how you deal with it!" They laughed at me for the most part because obviously I didn't actually go through it the way they are going through it now but I knew that the kids who are suffering aren't suffering with gender issues and DO NOT NEED gender re-assignment! This video does a good job of helping me understand why I was correct all those years ago.
the goal is normalizing pee dough behavior - -
As a man I might be way off but I feel like this stuff lifted the lid for me on how many different ways the medical industry has been trying to medicalize basically being female. It's led me to other areas like the downsides of the pill and issues with menopause medication as well as how women who become surrogates are subjected to a barrage of invasive procedures. It really worries me as someone who works in education what teen girls might be thinking about perfectly normal or manageable issues.
Here's more of my story if you're curious for how you can help the teen girls in your classes. And thank you for caring about this issue!!!
@@KonynXoXo My experience as a tangential man has been that in literally every case the pill was prescribed they told the girl/woman near nothing about it, it felt like they basically tricked her in order to prevent teen pregnancy, it had a negative impact on hormones/mood/libido and it resolved when they came off it.
I also got the distinct impression they sneered at the idea of teaching girls/women about their bodies or dealing with puberty/life by being informed and finding other ways to go through natural processes. They made them feel stupid for asking questions that the "professional" often couldn't answer.
Coincidentally your comment made me feel better about buying my fiancée a hot water bottle for her birthday. So thanks. I agree that we need to go back to common sense and natural measures. We are far too overmedicated as a society. Particularly in regards to natural processes.
Well, when one's only ambition in life is to change their gender, yes, we have serious issues as a society.
Thank you everyone at Genspect and Andrew Gold ❤
My post-grad was in ritual and ceremony, and the psychological importance of marking various stages in the life trajectory. We have lost so much in such a short period of time, and our culture is the poorer for it.
The comment re anorexia by the audience member actually answered the question - anorexia is a great example of social contagion AS WELL AS being about trauma + body dysmorphia + trauma...much like trans...and also exorcism...and group s u i c i d e in youth...and cults...
The social contagions from my memory and time on this planet:
Goth/Emo
Anorexia/bulimia
Cutting/self-harm
Trans/Gender
Only the Trans contagion is supposed and enforced by governments 😢
I was watching the latest Exorcist movie over Halloween. I don't find The Exorcist scary, basically because it seems like the worst the devil can do in those movies is possess some adolescent girls to terrorize their families. And then it became clear to me that all the demon possession movies were basically about the terror of raising girls going through puberty and I was laughing through the rest of the horror film because once I saw it I couldn't unsee it. I was later talking to my Roman Catholic husband who can not tolerate exorcism movies and was terrified of them and I explained the whole girls going through puberty angle to him and he said that I took all of the fear of them from him with that framing and even asked to watch The Exorcist with me.
On that note, we do have a tween girls on the cusp of puberty...
On a more serious note, I really think the counseling profession needs to start teaching students about social contagions, culture bound syndromes, and to try to be on the look out for the next one to prevent us from going down this path again. As Andrew so rightly points out you see this in different cultures over and over again.
See also 'Carrie'.
Yes, it would be good for young people to be aware of social contagion, but at a more basic level they should be taught to think critically - as I was, in school, back in the 1970s. They should question everything - not in an arrogant or disruptive way, but by keeping in mind that teachers or preachers who sound very sure of themselves may in fact be wrong.
Psychology itself is not immune to believing and perpetrating cult like ideologies. Something to be aware of.
I used to describe myself as Reagen when I started going through puberty so seeing this comment makes a lot more sense!! The Exorcist is such a great film and it's disappointing how many people refuse to watch it when it's such an important film
Thanks again Andrew. I love your work. I grew up in a family cult (like a lot of kids). I was gaslit and programmed to not have needs, such as: not allowed to have feelings (different to my mother), not to be seen as a burden on my parents (by having an illness or emotional needs), and not being allowed to be or show confidence (as my mentally disabled sibling would shame me and get violent as that was seen as being "up yourself"). Being female was also a problem as my father was a minsogynst. Despite this and many other things like alcoholism, violence, financial abuse, parentification etc etc, I "wasn't allowed to leave" or say anything that might show that some of my parents decisions weren't the best. I always felt and knew that something was wrong...initially I thought it was all me. Then my low key chronic health problems became acute. Long story short. I woke up. I went no contact with all my family. It wasn't anything a therapist said to me as often they invalidating or downplayed my experiences anyway so I stopped going. Plain old physical health issues. I realised only I am responsible for my health...my parents weren't magically going to turn around and start to care. A massive shock. But after about 5 years of inner and outer work, and no contact, I am better, more aware, I see through gaslighting, and I am less panicky.
Ah yes good old fashioned "Family Values"(TM Pending). So sorry you experienced this.
I've noticed humour is an important device for sounding out ideas. It's a gentle way of suggesting the way something is being perceived might not be quite right.
Well done all. This is why I like conferences like this, because they provide many different angles to look at things. It's not just a big affirmative echo.
Superb, more of this please!
The idea that I have to wait for my son, who has congenital heart disease, and is technically very intelligent, and who was already taking hormones when he told us he was "trans," to gradually inch his way down from the "10" on the scale to something closer to zero not only scares the daylights out of me, but also fills me with sharp anger. Life, especially in this case, is not long enough.
🙏
Are you lucky enough to be in one of those cases where medicalisation is not already a reality?
And tell me to f off if it's too personal
Thank you Stella for everything you do
I LOVE the women of Genspect! I follow them on UA-cam and appreciate all the research and knowledge on the topic of gender.
and let me add, the whole psychoanalytic tradition... It's a tradition to be rescued because urgently relevant to current concerns.
Thank you Genspect, thank you Andrew gold, keep up the good
Great to see Andrew here...he's such a good guy...his heart is after truth..
And which conditions are characterised by free floating anxiety? ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder. BINGO!
OCD, cluster b personality disorders, etc
I love Stella. She’s a rock of sense and much respected here in Ireland.
It's true the word "palpably" COULD fit where and when he says it, but I really think his mind is searching for the word "patently".
Good to hear more about the cultish aspects of gender ideology
Beautiful dress, Stella. It makes you look really classy.
Stella's got legs! Ooow!
It's more than just this idea of intervention. The most common story I've seen of people questioning their gender identity has been the result of a search for belonging - they're people who struggle to fit in with more typical peer groups, who discover ideas like gender transitioning through online fandom spaces, and try to redefine themselves so as to be able to belong to one of these spaces - that's why when you see a friend group made up of LGBT+ people, they're always getting along very well - their identities and their relationships are tied together.
If you want to see fewer people interested in transitioning gender, the single best thing you can do is include them. Give them a welcoming community, one that doesn't have barriers to entry, or a purity culture, or a focus on tribalism. People who already feel like they belong in a supportive community don't feel any desire to search for a sense of belonging online.
I think about how I couldn't "Just believe in Jesus" because the Southern Baptist Convention tried to get me to. I couldn't not doubt it.
Great chat. The parallels are so clear
I'm not sure that genuinely intelligent people are drawn to cults. It could be that our society rewards people with status if they accurately regurgitate what they have been taught. So the cult member may be an academic high achiever while lacking any meaningful insight.
Jolly Heretic Dutton argues that the midwit falls for it. A midwit isn't exactly of middle intelligence. Rather, they are a few IQ points above average, but wish to think they are elite.
Precisely this!
I can't help but agree. One of the most infuriating things I've seen Stella and Sasha do is make claims about super intelligent kids getting drawn to this. I've listened to a bunch of these young people and they're naive and superficial at every turn. If I speak to these people online they struggle to write four coherent sentences and even "gender" the thing they obsess about is something the have an incredibly superficial understanding about. They often literally copy and paste instead of thinking for themselves.
Love Andrew - he’s insightful, fearless, funny & clever (but not too clever obviously 😉)
Great to see him at Genspect!
Also, Stella’s remark about the loss of ritual reminded me of Yeats’s poem The Second Coming:
‘The blood dimm’d tide is loosed and all around
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.’
I’m atheist but it’s such a powerful & universal metaphor.
Enjoyed this thank you🕊
Yes cults are very dangerous and really scary
Especially when they are in charge of government’s
We all need to aware who that are…
Are we awake now🕊
Stella and Andrew featuring a Helen Joyce cameo. Quite an interesting, pleasant conversation. Thanks a lot, guys.
Some of my favorite people in the trans critical space!
Regarding the first question about whether belief is required in order to be influenced by these cultish beliefs and practices, Dina McMillian PhD s the person to have on this panel, as this is her area of expertise. She's written several books on the subject of manipulation as it intersects with abusive relationships. I believe she was interviewed by the Triggernometry podcast a few years ago.
Here’s a concise way to frame those thoughts for your friend:
People often see groups that validate their feelings or offer hope as cult-like, especially when the group seems to adopt unorthodox or extreme positions. We’ve seen this with movements like MAGA, where loyalty to the group can outweigh individual interests.
For trans people, it’s a bit different. Many of us grow up seeking acceptance and answers in a world that often misunderstands us. When someone-whether a professional or an ally-offers clarity or hope, it’s natural to embrace it. But that doesn’t make it a cult.
Trans people are often highly introspective, grappling with our own understanding of who we are. To outsiders, steps like transitioning might seem like we’re going against our own interests, or subscribing to a “trans ideology.” But for us, these steps are about living authentically, not blindly following a movement. It’s important to separate the human experience of being trans from the broader cultural or political debates.
Love Andrew gold! We need to make you an American citizen come to the somewhat normal USA the Brit’s have seemed to completely gone off the deep end while we are finally slowly backing off of it
He and Kistin. They are welcome.I love Francis, too.
Way to go, Andrew. Great conversation.
@Andrew Gold. It was Abigail Schrier in “Irreversible Damage” who first (?) made the connection with what was happening in previously unseen numbers with young women with ROGD to the anorexia social contagion in HongKong (corrected). At least, that’s where I first read about this lol
She certainly was not the "first" to see this - many people did, and have been watching this for over twenty years.
I absolutely love your dress Stella, you look stunning.
I’m such a fan of these two beautiful humans. 🖤🫶
I’d like to hear other psychologists riff on the need for ritual, especially in young people. (The idea was introduced to me through the work of Joseph Campbell in “The Power of Myth”)
This is so great! What a great vibe.
WPATH's SoC 8 was initially published with munimum ages for specific procedures. It was then withdrawn the ages removed and eunochs are a gender added.
It seems there is a need to push and wxpand the extremities into absurdities.
I believe the age limits were there because the surgeons were facing difficulties pwrforming radical surgical procedures on prepubescent penis'.
But I can't help thinking, this was a case where the ideology was "stretching" its tenuous hold on reality too far such that even the surgeons were having trouble accepting it.
the eunuch chapter was in the initial publication. there was an ethics chapters and age suggestions also. Ethics chapter was removed along with ages.....
Age was removed because surgeons had already performed surgery on young children who fell below the minimum age recommendations and they didn't want that to be used in legal challenges.
Excellent talk!! Thank you 😊
Yey! Andrew Gold
Came here from X for the comment and like engagement. You'll beat Stella yet!
"It's Hong Kong!" is the new
"It's MA'AM!!"
What a great talk... Are the "trans allies" also part of the cult? Because if not, can we at least reach them? I'm trying to reach those people moreso, but they seem just as much in the cult as the ones who are actually transitioning... It seems hopeless that unless something directly happens to them that's bad that they'll wake up... which brings me to think women fighting against womens rights won't stop until something bad happens to them directly...
I don't find it surprising that 'intelligent' individuals are taken in by new concepts and ideas, even if they are clearly batshit crazy. Philosophy and social sciences are the academic disciplines that produce many ideas that can be developed to create a cultish like following. Indeed, this is how Socrates was seen, even though he wasn't the evil one. However, the powers that were in ancient Greece saw his growing influence over the youth as a 'cult' that represented a threat to the status quo. We should remember that most status quo are acceptable ones that do not require a revolution. The word "revolution" is the one word that can inspire cult followers to act badly, so the trans phenomenon is a perfect example. It makes doctors and psychiatrists to cause harm and young girls to self-mutilate.
i love this boy, God bless
Fascinating interview!
Appreciate ya. Thanks for sharing.
Love the suit Andrew! This was a very interesting concept. How people (girls) can be swayef so easily
This was very interesting.
Very dapper, sir 😊❤ Oh, you're so much more than the Haz 'n' Markle stuff. That's how I first heard about you (don't judge). This was very interesting.
Being born in to a cult is different
I like his stuff ta
While the perceived need for exorcisms can have a social-contagion element to them..... I found this presentation to be deeply disrespectful of indigenous cultures and animist folkways. Like....would anyone say that Christianity is a "social contagion"? Or that Buddhism is a "social contagion"?? The colonial attitude here is astounding. (I'm not necessarily endorsing this particular practice or sect that he's referring to.... but his overall attitude and dismissiveness of things like garlic, smudging, etc is what I am taking issue with)
"The colonial attitude here is astounding." What a dumb way of viewing the world.
Exorcism is not indigenous to Argentina.
Animist folkways were not even mentioned. You got offended by something you invented in your mind.
I know it'd be fairly easy to talk about patriarchy but in Argentina is kind of blatant. Especially regarding the se xualization of young women and girls.
This conversation could benefit a lot from studying Rene Girard.
I've never heard this name. Can you explain why you think he's useful/what he's known for?
The only person who is 100% correct on this subject is Kellie Jay Keen!!!
Thes two do speak to these travestites, which is good, and arr respecrfull, which is also ok, but than they go allong with the narritive. And that is NOT ok!!!
Yawn
Would love to see this guy talk about all types of cult beliefs like Maga
And the Woke cult that thought it would win with Kamala.
Are you talking about the far right, Trump supporters, or just everyone that voted for him in general?
What is a cult?
@Engrave.Danger whats the difference? I mean maga is the cult that's my claim but if u voted for him I can't imagine ur much better. Most ppl who supported him are incapable of substantiating it with facts and reason, most of it is based on feelings and beliefs and that's exactly what this entire channel claims queer ppl are doing
@ivydark9741 a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing
NOW, it makes sense to me. I knew where I've seen Andrew Gold before. ua-cam.com/video/9yc4qPJd-Ww/v-deo.html
No.
This guys an OP. There's something fishy about how it's collecting and correlating different misinterpretations as if for a greater obfuscation and suppression. Seems too to be pulling the "expert" thing with "cults" while being not that accurate, but appealingly distant.
OP?
Easy on the word salad sis.
Do you literally make videos as a man with a young anime girl as an avatar? Or just watch men who do?
Andrew Gold needs to organize his thoughts! It goes in so many directions one can't follow. I'm surprised everybody didn't leave and make him a "lonely boy" (LOL)
Genspect got Mia to approach the transgender issue from the medical scandal perspective and this guy to approach it from the cult perspective. Maybe Gold can talk MAGA out of not committing acts of violence.
Speaking of incoherent...
@@unowen-nh9ov There was a famous singer named Andrew Gold who had a hit called "Lonely boy."
Gold is big on cults and maybe he could analyze the MAGA movement and talk some people out of committing acts of violence like killing police officers that we saw 4 years ago on January 6th.
@@unowen-nh9ov Don't worry, this is a man who is obsessed about trying to look like a young boy. He literally tricked his way into getting the medical intervention he wanted and yet is arguing that there are too many hurdles.
Such fun to criticise the philosophy but we can never claim injustice against the medical profession?
Why aren't you?
ua-cam.com/users/liveoun5-ywB6A8?si=4YLGvmeZjpXz-ZZw
Why are you promoting private channel?
Andrew Gold is trying his best on this. He strikes me as an amateur, with a very basic understanding of this issue. That’s ok, but I think you should platform more well informed people.
Like yourself? Quelle surprise!
He seems quite well informed about cults, and he draws interesting parallels to trans ideology.