Major takeaways: 1. Get metabolically healthy before consuming lots of fruit. 2. Careful with that high-fructose bred fruit! 3. Fiber doesn't make your poops better. 4. Fruit & honey probably wasn't the cause of metabolic dysfunction. 5. NEVER eat seed oils.
@@juntjoonunya9216 seed oils aka vegetable oils have an unfavorable fatty acid profile as they are high in linoleic and low in stearic acid. That means they get rancid super quickly which can lead to inflammation. In addition to that they are very highly processed. Solvents are used to get them out of the seed and then they might be bleached to neutralize the taste. These include but are not limited to: canola, grape seed, peanut, corn,..... Fruit oils like avocado, olive and coconut are better options because theyre not as processed. And butter, ghee, tallow have more favorable fatty acid profiles depending on the animal it came from.
A noticeable difference between Paul and Gundry is Gundry is concluded, certain with finality, about everything he says. He has no need to learn because he knows everything. Certainty is his brand which instills allegiance in his followers. Conversely Paul is a discovering machine, excited to learn anything new. Exploration is his brand.
Very true I've noticed this, I've been following Paul for a while and I've seen him go from pure carnivore to defending fruits. Some might say thats hypocritical but I think that shows open mindedness and ability to evolve his paradigm to be more inclusive of other dietary intakes. Gundry does seem like he's done all the learning hes need to do. But both were respectful and friendly and knowledgable
@@geekspeak1066 As someone who's both coaching people through various stages of illness and who's doing a PhD in anthropology related to pre-agriculture diets, I would question whether we know what's "fundamentally wrong" and what's not. I'm sympathetic to the carnivore approach - I've used it with my clients and I've done it myself for about a year or so. But I think we'd be foolish to say anyone of us has it all figured out. if we only listen to people with whom we already agree, we're wasting our time. Paul has changed his opinions on fruit and on honey and I think that's a good example for all of us to remember that we don't have it all figured out (because no one does).
@@MeatHeals not saying we have it all figured out. But it’s pretty clear that humans thrive on a meat not plant based diets. And while we can eat plants they are incomplete for our body. Even Saladino has evolve on this a bit by now including fruit based carbs. This makes a huge difference on hormone management I’ve tried every diet under the sun but Carnivore is the only one which has shown long term health benefits. I’ve been able to drop the 10 pounds I’ve been holding on to for decades. I have buried my pre-diabetes into the group. My fasting insulin was 14 it’s now 3. My HA1C dropped several points and the small amount of build up I had in my heart is completely done 15months in. My cardiologist said he has never heard of this. It has also greatly enhanced my mood. People can eat whatever they want but I’m sticking to the diet that has improved all my markers of metabolic health.
My diet will always be between Saldino and Gundry. Good chat. And I am glad you ended it with a discussion on fasting because no matter who is right or wrong, fasting can reverse damage from any bad diet.
I followed a zero fiber diet for almost two years and did pretty well, but I did have hard and sometimes painful bowl movements, I tried tweaking my diet many times, adding more fat, organs, or whatever. The only thing that finally fixed it was adding fiber back by eating avocado, squash, and pistachios mainly. Now I have normal and painless movements. So at least some people need some fiber I guess
@@martagoralewicz8914 Wouldn’t the OP get adequate amount of absorbable Mg assuming that he ate red meat majority speaking. But, yeah, in terms of insufficient/sufficient electrolytes, maybe that could have been an issue.
I had the exact (well, almost) opposite situation, where I was consuming mainly meat with avocadoes and had pretty rough constipation. I have removed the fiber and my bowel is amazing. It feels like it's working like it's supposed to and it definitely is a smooth experience overall. I do want to add that the other day I had to eat 2 apples and bananas out of necessity due to forgetting my lunch at work. I did not cause constipation but did make me poop and I got some very mild gas. It also could be that I feel it a lot more these days due to being used to no bloating, gas or anything funky down there.
Thats gret you both were able to resolve yourselves rather than relying on a doc to write a script. What ever the issue was I say do what works for you, be your own experiment be your own doctor. If something needs tweaking be open to other ideas (as long as its not the vegan route lol) around animal based for optimal health.
Yay, so proud of both of these doctors for reviewing each other's work and asking questions. Keep it up! I respect and listen to both of them even though they come to some very different conclusions. I like that they are willing to get together again on each other's podcasts/youtube. I am sure some good discoveries will come out of this ongoing dialogue between them!
The format of two, intelligent, educated, curious, thinking people agreeing, disagreeing, and discussing these topics so stimulates my own curiosity and desire to learn more. Thanks to you both!
I’ve had severe, debilitating IBS for my whole life until I switched to a carnivore-ish diet with extremely low fiber two years ago. Now the only time I ever have issues is when I stupidly eat too many veggies and fruits. Also, I have barely ever had constipation since the switch. This guy needs to listen to Paul Mason’s videos about fiber, since he is parroting outdated myths.
Same for me! I had gut problems all my adult life, being constantly told to eat more fibre. My daughter told me that I was the least healthiest person she knew who ate the ‘healthiest’ diet EVER! I’ve been meat based for over 2 years and can finally eat without resultant crippling gas/wind. I found Paul and Jason Fung on you tube and have leart the truth.
I mistakenly thought I'd add back in a salad everyday. My IBS is back. Stomach pain is not worth it. I do ok with small amounts of saurkraut or pickles. Salad tastes yummy but I need to pass.
LOL, me too! I'm mostly carnivore with great gut health. Wild blackberries are growing around me at the moment and I ate a few too many the other day, wow, what a difference to my guts!
@@annettestephens5337 I can totally identify with the "unhealthiest person eating the healthiest diet ever"! That totally described me as well! I've been carnivore for 2 years and am in the best health of my entire life! I'm so thankful I gave this diet a try because my health was going downhill fast before that.
Gundry is a hack charlatan. I read his book The Plant Paradox after reading Sally K Norton's Toxic Superfoods. He tells you that you can eat as many green leafy foods as you want, like Spinach and Kale and he never once mentions Oxalates. So if you do what he says and eat as much Spinach and Kale as you want as Sally K Norton mentions in her book, all those Oxalates can kill you. Gunrdy is an idiot.
If fruit is eaten at all it should be the fruit that naturally grows in the geographic region that you live in, and eaten only in season, as Steven said, to put on fat for the coming food shortages of winter. Seasonal for the Hadza’s is fruit that grows year round, that’s why the Hadza people can eat fruit year round (not to mention that they have a higher activity level than us Canadians)
Coming here from the Joel Fuhrman one, there is such a vast difference in the quality of the conversation. Could listed to you guys speaking together for hours
It was very interesting debate just hoping the host shows more respectful attitude if he knows the guest taking the heat for too long while waiting for releasing time for him to say something. I really like the attitude of the host being curious and eager to study though.
This was MUCH better, less stress and more fun of a debate compared to Joel F. He was pretty horrible and nasty. Gundry was extremely respectful and kind!! Wow what a difference with interviews and made me think more highly of Gundry!!!
If You want to understand Dr. Gundry’s diet YOU HAVE TO READ (or listen to) HIS BOOKS. Because his diet is a TREATMENT SYSTEM! It’s not a certain diet proposal.
This was fascinating, I have disliked SG just about every time I've listened to him, but here I actually enjoyed his arguments. Even Paul is constantly changing his mind on what we should or shouldn't eat so dogma about whether individual foods are or aren't healthy is often pointless as we're fighting over nuance and individual microbiomes. It's clear that we should all eat seasonal, local, unprocessed (and as close to heritage as possible) whole foods with time restricted eating. Let's all agree on that!
I read his entire PP book- it is genius. I like both of these fine doctors. Diets do not have to be mutually exclusive. If you eat WHOLE FOODS- get out and run, lift weights, enjoy some sun and good friends, and take care of your liver and gut, you can live a long time. As. Dr. G. says in his book- the goal is to DIE YOUNG...at a ripe old age.
you can tell both have their feet planted without any intention of budging but they do a good job of keeping it respectful despite strong disagreements
Even if its normal and healthy for the Hadza to eat honey everyday because their ancestors evolved in that part of the world, surely its different for someone of eg European descent who's ancestors probably were not eating honey as often
I think Paul is mistaken that honey is available year-round in Tanzania. The entire purpose of storing honey is to feed the larva when nectar is scarce. When nectar is scarce the bees deplete the honey stores until next season. Every ecosystem has its seasons, its times of plenty and times of scarcity. I only eat honey/fruit/berries in the summer and fall. Winter and spring I am strict carnivore. I think this is good for both metabolic and gut health.
one thing i'm still curious about is that, i've seen the values for omega 3s and 6s in sesame oil, as well as in many other sources of fats, vary quite a bit in measurement. i've even read some claims that sesame oil has equal omega 3 and 6. so i am curious if there are still a few variables in the data we are missing, such as where the seeds are being sourced from. quality of food you feed to an animal change the quality of the meat it produces and the same generalyy goes for plants as well. if put through the proper processing of growing, harvesting, etcetera, i wonder if certain plant foods could be actually healthy instead of their current detrimental forms
@@LucasTigy2 A lot of this comes down to previous gut damage and insulin sensitivity. My current self needs to stick to fairly strict carnivore; my hunter-gatherer/healthy gut and gut biome probably not so much.
@@RobertWadlow292 Fair enough, I wasn't precise. What I mean is that in the name of forced civility neither of them is man enough to drive a point home (this applies 80% to Saladino, 20% to Gundry who has fewer valid points). I say forced civility because on one had they make it look like they let each other save face yet they jump an opportunity for a "gotcha!" whenever it presents itself (here Gundry 80%, Saladino 20%).
Good debate. Powerhouses. Need this rather than just accepting one voice with no challenge.. Both have a lot to offer here and they did find lots of common ground.
Dr Paul excellent discussion. Both you and gundry are just a few out there who aren't always trashing other doctors' views and philosophies. Also I have listened to both you and gundry dating years back to now and you are both humble in saying that you've changed your point of view based on experience and new data. I really like both of your styles, making the content easily received and digestible. It's refreshing to see two giants in different camps with professional respect for one another. I have benefited from the insights and inputs from both of you, we are all biochemically different and have to draw from the council of a few wise men to put together our own Paths of healing
That was a very good debate, I love how Paul gets down to the chemical level, which is what makes it so difficult to out smart him. That being said, Dr. Gundry, did bring up some good points to sort of counter Dr. Saladino. However, I think Dr. Saladino was a bit more convincing.
Except main question is still uknown.. why are we cellulose intolerant... If we evolved eating "fibers" why cant we absorb them... thats the question no FIBER proponent has given answer too... we cant cuz we didnt evolve with them.. there is nothing fiber gives us that "fasting and meat" doestn... simple.. Thats where im comming from... If we had evolve eating fibres, its natural that it additional all the "benefits" the Gundy claims, they would aditionaly also give us Energy... not convinced...
@@rijokripto3633 I agree 100% with you. FIBER is BS. Since I discovered Dr. Paul, I haven't ate any vegetables (except once in a blue I'll have some asparagus with my steak, but not in my house, just in a restaurant). What keeps my bowls normal is the fat. When I cut to look leaner. I remove some fat from my diet, but I came keep it up for too long, I will get constipated. The minute I add fat back in, wala, all is well. I did eat fruits though. I would love Dr. Paul to discuss in depth the importance of structured water, unless he already had and I missed it.
Gundry is a moron. He tells you to avoid lectins but tells you to eat foods like Spinach and Kale which are high in Oxalates and can kill you in high enough amounts.
Dr Paul, kudos for attempting these conversations but please let your guests speak more. Yes we know you have loads of information to share which is great, but you're running it like a one man show with a guest who you're treating basically as a prop and launching point for your own diatribes. It would be nice to see more back and forth
I also found the Keto Diet reviewing Mr. Gundry’s work. My Dad died at age 74 believing Mr.Gundry was right. NO WAY Whole Food Plant Based will give long term health. There has to be a proper amounts of Healthy Fats.
Love these respectable debates Paul. I have tried keto, plant based and am aware of research from both sides but it’s confusing at times. As a nutritional psychologist I counsel clients and am hesitant as to what exactly is best so recommend getting rid of sugar, processed food, oils, etc and suggest they do experiments letting them know about carnivore, plant based, etc. Thanks for the educational and thought provoking discussions!
Never heard of a nutritional psychologist. Interesting. Your advice sounds pretty good. I have tried, but found most people simply won't change until they have a serious wake up call.
1. Fruit is mostly seasonal (Gundry is correct) but around 5g fructose is removed by the gut when part of a fibre matrix to it’s not a problem in equatorial regions 2. Eating Fish helped the expansion of the human brain (Gundry was correct) when eating meat the brain was eaten which gave omega3
@thelion2087 I've read his book he's an idiot. He gets so much wrong. Like "eat as many green leafy vegetables as you want. I won't mention that Spinach is high in oxalates and can kill you in high enough amounts. He also completely lies about farming suggesting that all farming is like Factory farming and all animals are fed corn and soy diets to fatten them up. I live on a farm. We do not grow corn or soy. Our cattle are 100% grass fed. Our turkeys and chickens are free range so they can forge for bugs in the yard. Just like all the other farms in my community. But according to Gundry such farms don't exist so you need to be vegan.
Paul buddy your getting way aggressive in your debate with Steven. I'm eating mostly carnivore so I'm in your camp on the diet but ease up on the all knowing attitude. You cut Steven off several times talking over him telling him he was wrong. You're a smart dude but you don't know if all. I was wanting to hear more of Steven's commentary on the Hunza diet but you shouted him down. Two weeks with them doesn't make you an expert on them. I do listen to most of your stuff so this is a critique from a regular listener. Peace
I think Paul is still calibrating his approach to debates, it's not his specialty, and I've seen him be too polite in previous debates, so I think he's trying to find a balance so as to assert himself respectfully, and I don't think that's easy to do. I agree with you that he could have eased of the peddle a bit, but he did not miss the mark by much. Besides, he does provide a lot more science backed points than those that he debates, so why not be a little aggressive if you know your right based on rigorous analysis of scientific studies.
I felt the same way. Dr Gundry is a guest on his show for us to learn, Paul acts like he knows everything. We know what Paul likes, now let’s hear someone else talk
@@JamesTateWilson I don't think Paul is arrogant. I think he feels an obligation to point out flaws that agree hidden in the fine detail. For example, if your going to cite a study that contains fat, it is very important what type of fat is being used. Paul is open to being wrong, and he well adjust his perspective, but it had to be backed up. Look, he's gone from full carnivore to quasi, because he admits carbs can be use for good in the body, provided they are in the right amounts, and evolutionary consistent.
Amazing debate! I want to hear more of these debates with other respected doctors, scientists and pioneers who hold opposing opinions. Mark Hyman would be an amazing guest! Ive been following him since the start of my journey back in 2012
The thing I’ve always loved about Gundrys teaching is that everything always goes right along with the scriptures. I have benefited so much from following his recommendations including healing myself from arthritis and IBS.
Nice friendly debate. Main difference: Gundry is patient-facing. He has witnessed many patients heal. Paul goes off his own health. I agree with Gundry on fruit. It can be pretty terrible for autoimmune disease. Paul is also unusually active. He surfs four plus hours a day. His caloric needs are very different. He’s also eating native fruit that isnt sprayed down to survive the transport and selling in US.
I thought Saladino was being an ass and trying to do a hit job on Gundry’s work. Saladino seemed more interested in arguing with Gundry about minor points than allowing Gundry to share the premise of his book. Didn’t learn anything about Gundry’s book or thoughts because Saladino was not interested in having Gundry share his knowledge with the audience. Saladino was just trying to do a hit job.
No olive oil in the U.K and its cetainly not in nature everywhere all year round??? Please state what the evidence of your wildly inaccurate claims are given the limited grow zones with adequate grow days per year that olives require.
@@blackbirdsinging6264 lol. Gundry's diet is a olive oil centered diet but he is constantly talking about "fruits in season". Many contradictions in his advices...
Dear Paul and Steven, Thank you so much for showing the ability to have a discussion with different opinions. Paul, because it is a very rare occasion to find a high level discussion between a carnivore and omnivore, please include the main discussion points between carnivores and vegetarians/vegans like TMAO, mTOR, origins of insulin resistance and progression of cardiovascular disease in relation to diet. This would be very helpful in my own quest to find the proper allocation between animal and plant based nutrition.
He is not a strict Carnivore anymore, despite his channel name- he is Animal Based so honey, fruit, raw dairy are all fair game- no pun intended. Two your inquiry, clearly it is processed food and sugar that are the root cause of most metabolic issues.
It's interesting because I don't agree with nearly anything Gundry said in the beginning of this podcast, but he was spitting fire in Dr Mercola's podcast. Strange disconnect here.
Wish Paul had allowed Dr Gundry to talk more - I thought Dr Gundry was doing a good job of explaining his experience and knowledge when allowed to. The question of did eating sea food give us our intelligence or meat is one I wish they talked more on.
Awesome podcast. Great to hear two people disagree on many topics but still remain respectful. Speaking of such, when are you and Layne Norton going to have another go?😉
Man that was a vastly different podcast than Dr Gundrys podcast. He hardly, if ever interrupted you. He allowed you to share your opinion, treated you respectfully nor did he tell you that you were wrong, where as you seemed intent (based on the fact you went to Africa to get as much information on the Sudsa) telling him how wrong he was and how better your way of eating is better than his, not even giving your guest the last word. Not cool.
Mr Paul my friend. I’m 55 years old over weight from an American standard diet. all my life I hear is studies, studies ( a lot of BS and money making result studies) I’m all in a you! You’re discovering true healthy results. God bless you and may Jesus be with and protect you through this journey
Hello Dr. Paul, I have been steering towards a full carnivore diet over the past few months. I think it would be great if you could put together a list of YES and NO foods based of the combination of knowledge from both you and Dr. Gundry. Pick the foods both of you agree on and put together a list of foods you both agree are good for us. This would likely produce a diet that is easier to adhere to than going hard core in either direction. Thanks for the great videos and great information.
I love both these guys. They are working towards the truth. There will be some loses but that’s where they say you have to see how you feel and check your numbers and exclude until they are right. Then reintroduce to find your specific triggers.
I loved that you had opposing views for the doctor. I just wish you plan to go back to the same tribe or even maybe a different tribe at different seasons to see if their diets change. I appreciate that you even went to do this. No one can push back on your experience because you were actually there. So to make your points seal tight, it would be great to experience all seasons to make that complete. P.s.stay a little longer as well maybe two weeks instead. It's a larger sample size. Great job though! Love your work!!
It is ironic that Carnivore MD cites a paper in which increased consumption of FRUITS and VEGETABLES leads to lower waist circumference, lower inflammation, and lower systolic blood pressure. I thought plants were bad Saladino...
I find the reasoning for seasonal dietary "restrictions" logical, but let's not forget that honey for instance, has possibly the best shelf life of any whole food. Also, What about our ancestors living in the inhospitable North or South where the seasons are extreme? My ancestors are Icelanders and Scandinavian where nothing green grows for up to 9 months out of the year. All our traditions celebrate meat and fat. Mainly from lamb nose to tail.
Always a fantastic point. People forget this that green stuff is seasonal and very limited. That's why today's people don't know what we are supposed to eat because they think plants magically grow in the produce department of whole foods :) Think of the long distance transportation costs to get all those tropical fruits to far north latitudes.
Lovely debate. Defenetely both of the doctors here are contributing to the advancement of medicine (unlike vast majority just write prescription for their living).
Around 24:15 Dr Gundry mentioned that the only larged brained animals are either aquatic or humans, implying that meat didn't make the lions grow big brains. My personal theory on this is that humans having big brains was mostly made possible by our upright gait which allows our heavy heads to be supported above the centre of mass of the body. Lions would need an unreasonably strong neck to support a large skull. Dolphins om the other hand can afford big brains since their necks are thick and continuous with their torsos so that they are aerodynamic, besides their weight is mostly supported by the water.
I used to follow the Plant Paradox but was still bloated and developed some muscle mass loss, after Dr Gundry interviewed Paul about the carnivore diet, and I realized I wasn't eating near enough protein and fiber was causing my bloating, I switched. So happy I did. These Drs agree on lots of things.
I had a similar experience- found my balance now and I am happy. I.F. is very important especially if you need to lose weight. If not, and you are eating whole foods, less important...just some 18:6 is fine. Keeping the feeding window short is very clearly great advise for anyone. Even my surgeon told me that, just before he removed my gallbladder. He said we must allow our digestive systems time every day to rest.
Sally Fallon, Weston Price Foundation board member, wrote a book, "Nourishing Diet" that does a fabulous job of discounting the conclusions drawn by the investigators of the Blue Zone theory.
Two big brains in one interview- great! Loved when they kept referring to each other by their first names in a mildly passive aggressive way. Good, passionate debate. They both made a lot of sense. Dr. Gundry is a wealth of experience. Dr. Paul raises some interesting points. Many are from his personal experience whereas Dr. G. has tested on 10's of thousands of patients and has seen the patterns. What Dr. G. said about fruit makes sense and supports what Dr. Lustig also believes. I get that Dr. Paul is metabolically healthy however most Americans are not. I think for most, limiting whole fruits is a best practice. I still eat berries and avocados and fruits disguised as plants...as well as grass finished meats. I am an omnivore. I read and really liked The Plant Paradox. I want to read The Canivore Code when I have time. Usually the truth lies someone in between.
@@thelion2087 What are you saying? I read his book. He does know a lot. He leans a little more on the plant side. I lean a little more on the meat side. I just feel better when I eat it- has by far more nutrients. From your thumbnail I think you are a carnivore and you hate Gundry. You think he is all about plants but that is not all true. His book is Plant PARADOX- it is not what you think. He states people should actually avoid many plants- that they have chemical defense systems. You should read his book. Don't be too quick to judge.
Interesting debate. Perhaps simply stating that we agree that humans eating non grain foods, having never eaten processed foods, in a primitive setting can eat just about anything and be in good health.
Great debate your giving a lot of people good information about diet and health ,there’s no one diet fits all ,get all vit and minerals in all natural food source.
Me too. I lost weight and felt good but after a while, being mostly plant based I felt like I was getting deficient. I was working out pretty hard too. I have reintroduced some meat and my life force has returned. I really wanted to be plant based or vegan for ethical reasons but it just wasn't working for me. How about you?
short term carnivore is great. Long term it will destroy your liver and gut. Your liver will no longer break down the iron and keep in mind ammonia poisoning.
Paul says you can't promulgate the notion that the Hadza ate so much fiber, but then admits he was only there for a week--then still tries to claim he knows how much baobab fruit they eat. Then he tries to extrapolate his small sample size of the days he ate honey with them to the entire year. Paul is just as guilty as he claims others are when it comes to cherry picking data.
I wonder if Dr. Gundry knew this guy was gonna be busting his chops. Not fair without warning. Obviously He, Paul did plan it. Not fair w/o a heads up. You Paul plan your strategy but dont give Gundry the same chance to prepare? Not cool. Blind siding is like a sucker punch. Dr. Gundry does well though in spite of being blindsided. Dr Gundry knows the science.
Exactly. Dr. Gundry is seeing patients 6 days/week and knows his stuff well. I reversed my Crohn's on his program, and while I eat lots of plant material, I still include plenty of pasture-raised meats in my diet. I'm really curious to know what Paul is doing all day in Costa Rica when he isn't surfing and working with heartandsoil. I strongly doubt he's working with patients to the extent of dr.gundry
Sorry Paul not convinced on the fructose - fructose of any source (including fruit and raw honey ) always makes me feel terrible ( that’s after healing my gut with animal foods ) maybe I’m more like the Maasai ( and you’d have to say they are more robust, taller and stronger facial structures compared to Hazda. Also they have less cavities…. So 🤔 but I do agree I feel better with some carbs I like the raw milk 🥛 Thanks for the friendly debate ✌️
There are so many podcasts out there on nutrition. The ones that are most helpful to me as a non expert trying to make his way in the confusion are where there are people from different perspectives. At least this way one hears the argument from both sides and can make up one's own mind about what to do. The less helpful podcasts etc, albeit still informative, are the ones where you have people who have the same perspective as there is so much confirmation bias coming into play. So I appreciate that PS reaches out to people with different perspectives than his to debate. It's not surprising it's hard to get guests sometimes as these are not easy debates to have. It's never going to be easy for someone to hold on to their beliefs, body of work, research, personal experience, business interests etc lightly enough to allow in divergent/contradictory information (PS included!). However, this is science, isn't it, and it's the only way nutritional science will ever get any clearer to the average man/woman on the street. Big thumbs up. I admire the vitality that Saladino shows in his work.
Have you done a teaching on gut biome health? Other people are saying you need plant fiber especially as it concerns cancer treatments and the body responding to said treatments.
For me, I need a simple answer, but this video didn’t provide that answer. After all of my Army years as a runner with five of those years as a vegetarian, it was not until this year (in retirement) that my weight came down effortlessly along with my blood pressure by eating KETO (almost Carnivore) and practicing intermittent fasting. Now, I’m trying to build confidence that Carnivore is NOT going to bring forth a heart attack because by not consuming “sugar” - in all its forms - I am not causing oxidation of LDL’s, thus keeping them from tearing into my artery walls and building plaque. I’m not a doctor or medical scientist, so I didn’t get support (if it was in this discussion) for my dietary method by listening to this discussion! Dr Gundry, like Dr Perlmutter, has changed course with they’re recommendations over the last several years, but they have not convinced me that they’re changes are correct. My fear is that if I start including fruit and vegetables that are high in sugar, I’m going set the stage for plaque formation. Terry
Major takeaways:
1. Get metabolically healthy before consuming lots of fruit.
2. Careful with that high-fructose bred fruit!
3. Fiber doesn't make your poops better.
4. Fruit & honey probably wasn't the cause of metabolic dysfunction.
5. NEVER eat seed oils.
Thank you 👍
What do you mean high-fructose bred fruit?
6. Time restricted eating for the win
So never eat seeds? Or is their natural oil content small enough? Sorry if it's obvious in the video as I haven't listened yet...
@@juntjoonunya9216 seed oils aka vegetable oils have an unfavorable fatty acid profile as they are high in linoleic and low in stearic acid. That means they get rancid super quickly which can lead to inflammation. In addition to that they are very highly processed. Solvents are used to get them out of the seed and then they might be bleached to neutralize the taste.
These include but are not limited to: canola, grape seed, peanut, corn,.....
Fruit oils like avocado, olive and coconut are better options because theyre not as processed. And butter, ghee, tallow have more favorable fatty acid profiles depending on the animal it came from.
A noticeable difference between Paul and Gundry is Gundry is concluded, certain with finality, about everything he says. He has no need to learn because he knows everything. Certainty is his brand which instills allegiance in his followers. Conversely Paul is a discovering machine, excited to learn anything new. Exploration is his brand.
Very true I've noticed this, I've been following Paul for a while and I've seen him go from pure carnivore to defending fruits. Some might say thats hypocritical but I think that shows open mindedness and ability to evolve his paradigm to be more inclusive of other dietary intakes. Gundry does seem like he's done all the learning hes need to do. But both were respectful and friendly and knowledgable
Agreed! Love your comment
you are spot on!
Paul also comes off as not very open to any of Gundry's ideas...Depends on your bias
@@stevengeller765 well I mean it's a debate so there has to be a stance both have to take otherwise its just a discussion.
Love that Gundry is willing to debate intelligently and rationally! A great discussion! 👍👍🙏
It really was so much better than Joel F debate which was just stressful lol
Yes both these guys are extremely clear headed and articulate. Obviously their respective diets are serving them well
Lovely stuff Paul. More friendly debates with intelligent people who disagree with you please!
It’s hard to find people who are fundamentally wrong who will defend their ideas and are will to die on that hill. It’s easier to just avoid it.
@@geekspeak1066 As someone who's both coaching people through various stages of illness and who's doing a PhD in anthropology related to pre-agriculture diets, I would question whether we know what's "fundamentally wrong" and what's not. I'm sympathetic to the carnivore approach - I've used it with my clients and I've done it myself for about a year or so. But I think we'd be foolish to say anyone of us has it all figured out. if we only listen to people with whom we already agree, we're wasting our time. Paul has changed his opinions on fruit and on honey and I think that's a good example for all of us to remember that we don't have it all figured out (because no one does).
@@MeatHeals not saying we have it all figured out. But it’s pretty clear that humans thrive on a meat not plant based diets. And while we can eat plants they are incomplete for our body. Even Saladino has evolve on this a bit by now including fruit based carbs. This makes a huge difference on hormone management I’ve tried every diet under the sun but Carnivore is the only one which has shown long term health benefits. I’ve been able to drop the 10 pounds I’ve been holding on to for decades. I have buried my pre-diabetes into the group. My fasting insulin was 14 it’s now 3. My HA1C dropped several points and the small amount of build up I had in my heart is completely done 15months in. My cardiologist said he has never heard of this. It has also greatly enhanced my mood. People can eat whatever they want but I’m sticking to the diet that has improved all my markers of metabolic health.
I would suggest Dave Aspry as one.
And... Please Paul, let them talk.
My diet will always be between Saldino and Gundry. Good chat. And I am glad you ended it with a discussion on fasting because no matter who is right or wrong, fasting can reverse damage from any bad diet.
Yeah its pretty insane how effective fasting is for almost everyone regardless of activity or diet.
Hats off to these guys for willingness to debate these topics.
Great discourse between two knowledgeable doctors. I love the respect each of you gave each other.
@J Rose oh I do!!
Paul I love your podcasts but please turn down the volume of your intro and exit music, it's so loud.
I followed a zero fiber diet for almost two years and did pretty well, but I did have hard and sometimes painful bowl movements, I tried tweaking my diet many times, adding more fat, organs, or whatever. The only thing that finally fixed it was adding fiber back by eating avocado, squash, and pistachios mainly. Now I have normal and painless movements. So at least some people need some fiber I guess
Or rather adding carbs you added magnesium which absorb water into your poop and make it soft and painless
I thing its about minerals not fiber cuz many people manipulate it with minerals without adding fiber or carbs
@@martagoralewicz8914 Wouldn’t the OP get adequate amount of absorbable Mg assuming that he ate red meat majority speaking. But, yeah, in terms of insufficient/sufficient electrolytes, maybe that could have been an issue.
I had the exact (well, almost) opposite situation, where I was consuming mainly meat with avocadoes and had pretty rough constipation. I have removed the fiber and my bowel is amazing. It feels like it's working like it's supposed to and it definitely is a smooth experience overall. I do want to add that the other day I had to eat 2 apples and bananas out of necessity due to forgetting my lunch at work. I did not cause constipation but did make me poop and I got some very mild gas. It also could be that I feel it a lot more these days due to being used to no bloating, gas or anything funky down there.
Thats gret you both were able to resolve yourselves rather than relying on a doc to write a script. What ever the issue was I say do what works for you, be your own experiment be your own doctor. If something needs tweaking be open to other ideas (as long as its not the vegan route lol) around animal based for optimal health.
Yay, so proud of both of these doctors for reviewing each other's work and asking questions. Keep it up! I respect and listen to both of them even though they come to some very different conclusions. I like that they are willing to get together again on each other's podcasts/youtube. I am sure some good discoveries will come out of this ongoing dialogue between them!
I felt they generally agreed more than they disagreed. Both are about as bright as they come.
i agree a lot with what pauls saying but, this felt more like paul preaching rather then a conversation.
The format of two, intelligent, educated, curious, thinking people agreeing, disagreeing, and discussing these topics so stimulates my own curiosity and desire to learn more. Thanks to you both!
I’ve had severe, debilitating IBS for my whole life until I switched to a carnivore-ish diet with extremely low fiber two years ago. Now the only time I ever have issues is when I stupidly eat too many veggies and fruits. Also, I have barely ever had constipation since the switch. This guy needs to listen to Paul Mason’s videos about fiber, since he is parroting outdated myths.
Same for me! I had gut problems all my adult life, being constantly told to eat more fibre. My daughter told me that I was the least healthiest person she knew who ate the ‘healthiest’ diet EVER! I’ve been meat based for over 2 years and can finally eat without resultant crippling gas/wind. I found Paul and Jason Fung on you tube and have leart the truth.
I mistakenly thought I'd add back in a salad everyday. My IBS is back. Stomach pain is not worth it. I do ok with small amounts of saurkraut or pickles. Salad tastes yummy but I need to pass.
LOL, me too! I'm mostly carnivore with great gut health. Wild blackberries are growing around me at the moment and I ate a few too many the other day, wow, what a difference to my guts!
Exactly the same for me.
@@annettestephens5337 I can totally identify with the "unhealthiest person eating the healthiest diet ever"! That totally described me as well! I've been carnivore for 2 years and am in the best health of my entire life! I'm so thankful I gave this diet a try because my health was going downhill fast before that.
The most important things that I take from this podcast are the many things these knowledgeable doctors agree upon.
yes
Gundry was my first love in the nutrition space. Thank you Dr. Gundry. You rock.
Gundry is a hack charlatan. I read his book The Plant Paradox after reading Sally K Norton's Toxic Superfoods. He tells you that you can eat as many green leafy foods as you want, like Spinach and Kale and he never once mentions Oxalates. So if you do what he says and eat as much Spinach and Kale as you want as Sally K Norton mentions in her book, all those Oxalates can kill you. Gunrdy is an idiot.
If fruit is eaten at all it should be the fruit that naturally grows in the geographic region that you live in, and eaten only in season, as Steven said, to put on fat for the coming food shortages of winter.
Seasonal for the Hadza’s is fruit that grows year round, that’s why the Hadza people can eat fruit year round (not to mention that they have a higher activity level than us Canadians)
Spot on.
Coming here from the Joel Fuhrman one, there is such a vast difference in the quality of the conversation. Could listed to you guys speaking together for hours
Same here!! Just listened to the Joel's one and landed on this one. Such a difference! Both parties are friendly and respectful.
It was very interesting debate just hoping the host shows more respectful attitude if he knows the guest taking the heat for too long while waiting for releasing time for him to say something. I really like the attitude of the host being curious and eager to study though.
To be honestly it was pretty ok until reach the last 10 minutes plus or so. Thanks for interesting factual contents.
This was MUCH better, less stress and more fun of a debate compared to Joel F. He was pretty horrible and nasty. Gundry was extremely respectful and kind!! Wow what a difference with interviews and made me think more highly of Gundry!!!
If You want to understand Dr. Gundry’s diet YOU HAVE TO READ (or listen to) HIS BOOKS. Because his diet is a TREATMENT SYSTEM!
It’s not a certain diet proposal.
There's no way he's going to agree with your statements, Paul. It challenges parts of his new book and all the work he's put into it.
Keep in mind, there's more to health than just food. Air/Water/Sleep/Movement/Family/Community/Circadian Rhythm/Connection to Earth/etc.
the best part was the back and forth by two who are worthy. astonishingly good job, paul.
Gundry did a lot better than I was expecting
He was nice about it too
@@sarah29880 u look nice lol
This was fascinating, I have disliked SG just about every time I've listened to him, but here I actually enjoyed his arguments. Even Paul is constantly changing his mind on what we should or shouldn't eat so dogma about whether individual foods are or aren't healthy is often pointless as we're fighting over nuance and individual microbiomes. It's clear that we should all eat seasonal, local, unprocessed (and as close to heritage as possible) whole foods with time restricted eating. Let's all agree on that!
I read his entire PP book- it is genius. I like both of these fine doctors. Diets do not have to be mutually exclusive. If you eat WHOLE FOODS- get out and run, lift weights, enjoy some sun and good friends, and take care of your liver and gut, you can live a long time. As. Dr. G. says in his book- the goal is to DIE YOUNG...at a ripe old age.
you can tell both have their feet planted without any intention of budging but they do a good job of keeping it respectful despite strong disagreements
Thank you for doing this conversation Dr Gundy.... its appreciated
Even if its normal and healthy for the Hadza to eat honey everyday because their ancestors evolved in that part of the world, surely its different for someone of eg European descent who's ancestors probably were not eating honey as often
I think Paul is mistaken that honey is available year-round in Tanzania. The entire purpose of storing honey is to feed the larva when nectar is scarce. When nectar is scarce the bees deplete the honey stores until next season. Every ecosystem has its seasons, its times of plenty and times of scarcity. I only eat honey/fruit/berries in the summer and fall. Winter and spring I am strict carnivore. I think this is good for both metabolic and gut health.
As my father used to say. “You’re both in the same church but different pews” Enjoyed. Have a part 2 to follow up!
Good talk... I liked how you challenged him on the seed oil in his practice
one thing i'm still curious about is that, i've seen the values for omega 3s and 6s in sesame oil, as well as in many other sources of fats, vary quite a bit in measurement. i've even read some claims that sesame oil has equal omega 3 and 6. so i am curious if there are still a few variables in the data we are missing, such as where the seeds are being sourced from. quality of food you feed to an animal change the quality of the meat it produces and the same generalyy goes for plants as well. if put through the proper processing of growing, harvesting, etcetera, i wonder if certain plant foods could be actually healthy instead of their current detrimental forms
@@LucasTigy2 A lot of this comes down to previous gut damage and insulin sensitivity. My current self needs to stick to fairly strict carnivore; my hunter-gatherer/healthy gut and gut biome probably not so much.
I appreciate that you guys had a respectful discourse but awkwardness level in this video is 8.7/10. Past awkwardness, very informative.
I had to stop it due to it being awkward. I have to continue it somehow/way.😂😂
What's awkward about it? "Awkward" is a dumb teeny bopper term
@@RobertWadlow292 your "dumb teeny bopper term" sounds like you haven't grown out of your teeny bopper days 😂😂
@@Thebigsauce35 Good one
@@RobertWadlow292 Fair enough, I wasn't precise. What I mean is that in the name of forced civility neither of them is man enough to drive a point home (this applies 80% to Saladino, 20% to Gundry who has fewer valid points). I say forced civility because on one had they make it look like they let each other save face yet they jump an opportunity for a "gotcha!" whenever it presents itself (here Gundry 80%, Saladino 20%).
Good debate. Powerhouses. Need this rather than just accepting one voice with no challenge.. Both have a lot to offer here and they did find lots of common ground.
Dr Paul excellent discussion. Both you and gundry are just a few out there who aren't always trashing other doctors' views and philosophies. Also I have listened to both you and gundry dating years back to now and you are both humble in saying that you've changed your point of view based on experience and new data. I really like both of your styles, making the content easily received and digestible. It's refreshing to see two giants in different camps with professional respect for one another. I have benefited from the insights and inputs from both of you, we are all biochemically different and have to draw from the council of a few wise men to put together our own Paths of healing
That was a very good debate, I love how Paul gets down to the chemical level, which is what makes it so difficult to out smart him. That being said, Dr. Gundry, did bring up some good points to sort of counter Dr. Saladino. However, I think Dr. Saladino was a bit more convincing.
Except main question is still uknown.. why are we cellulose intolerant... If we evolved eating "fibers" why cant we absorb them... thats the question no FIBER proponent has given answer too... we cant cuz we didnt evolve with them.. there is nothing fiber gives us that "fasting and meat" doestn... simple.. Thats where im comming from... If we had evolve eating fibres, its natural that it additional all the "benefits" the Gundy claims, they would aditionaly also give us Energy... not convinced...
@@rijokripto3633 I agree 100% with you. FIBER is BS. Since I discovered Dr. Paul, I haven't ate any vegetables (except once in a blue I'll have some asparagus with my steak, but not in my house, just in a restaurant). What keeps my bowls normal is the fat. When I cut to look leaner. I remove some fat from my diet, but I came keep it up for too long, I will get constipated. The minute I add fat back in, wala, all is well. I did eat fruits though. I would love Dr. Paul to discuss in depth the importance of structured water, unless he already had and I missed it.
If every doctor were open to debate like Gundry, wouldn't the world be a better place?
I really enjoyed this discussion. Paul you are certainly a good debater and Dr Gundry certainly held his own. Well done
Both are geniuses. I like how joyful Dr. Saladino is and how he enjoys fruits and honey not just meats
fruits nowadays are enhanced and selected already
Gundry is a moron. He tells you to avoid lectins but tells you to eat foods like Spinach and Kale which are high in Oxalates and can kill you in high enough amounts.
Obviously the Plant Paradox and Carnivore diet have more things in common than differences. Interesting podcast
Yes- WHOLE FOODS. No processed Foods. Exercise. Get some sun and rest well. Most everything in moderation. Avoid Sugar=winning!
Loved this debate! Very civil! More content pleaseeeee!!!! Also I would love to see Dr Berg and Dr Gundry together as well.
Dr Paul, kudos for attempting these conversations but please let your guests speak more. Yes we know you have loads of information to share which is great, but you're running it like a one man show with a guest who you're treating basically as a prop and launching point for your own diatribes. It would be nice to see more back and forth
I have been waiting for this since the last friendly exchange.
I found the carnivore diet via the Gundry route. Glad I did.
I also found the Keto Diet reviewing Mr. Gundry’s work. My Dad died at age 74 believing Mr.Gundry was right. NO WAY Whole Food Plant Based will give long term health. There has to be a proper amounts of Healthy Fats.
Me too
Love these respectable debates Paul. I have tried keto, plant based and am aware of research from both sides but it’s confusing at times. As a nutritional psychologist I counsel clients and am hesitant as to what exactly is best so recommend getting rid of sugar, processed food, oils, etc and suggest they do experiments letting them know about carnivore, plant based, etc. Thanks for the educational and thought provoking discussions!
Never heard of a nutritional psychologist. Interesting. Your advice sounds pretty good. I have tried, but found most people simply won't change until they have a serious wake up call.
I think removing sugar, processed food, and seed oils is key, and health will improve doing this regardless if your vegan, carnivore, etc.
@@chriswhitehouse8982 You are right and a 2 years study said just that. Fresh, whole foods. Eat less, move more; drink water and good things happen.
1. Fruit is mostly seasonal (Gundry is correct) but around 5g fructose is removed by the gut when part of a fibre matrix to it’s not a problem in equatorial regions
2. Eating Fish helped the expansion of the human brain (Gundry was correct) when eating meat the brain was eaten which gave omega3
Isn't a large part of the world either tropical or semi-tropical where many kinds of fruit are available year round?
I ❤️ Dr Gundry. Smart, charismatic, bubbly.
and nearly twice the other guys age...still sharp as a tack.
Dr gundry is a genius. He’s been a cardiologist for over 50 years.
@thelion2087 I've read his book he's an idiot. He gets so much wrong. Like "eat as many green leafy vegetables as you want. I won't mention that Spinach is high in oxalates and can kill you in high enough amounts. He also completely lies about farming suggesting that all farming is like Factory farming and all animals are fed corn and soy diets to fatten them up. I live on a farm. We do not grow corn or soy. Our cattle are 100% grass fed. Our turkeys and chickens are free range so they can forge for bugs in the yard. Just like all the other farms in my community. But according to Gundry such farms don't exist so you need to be vegan.
To show how obsessed I am, I almost understand everything they're talking about...ALMOST...
bullshit
Paul buddy your getting way aggressive in your debate with Steven. I'm eating mostly carnivore so I'm in your camp on the diet but ease up on the all knowing attitude. You cut Steven off several times talking over him telling him he was wrong. You're a smart dude but you don't know if all. I was wanting to hear more of Steven's commentary on the Hunza diet but you shouted him down. Two weeks with them doesn't make you an expert on them. I do listen to most of your stuff so this is a critique from a regular listener. Peace
I think Paul is still calibrating his approach to debates, it's not his specialty, and I've seen him be too polite in previous debates, so I think he's trying to find a balance so as to assert himself respectfully, and I don't think that's easy to do. I agree with you that he could have eased of the peddle a bit, but he did not miss the mark by much. Besides, he does provide a lot more science backed points than those that he debates, so why not be a little aggressive if you know your right based on rigorous analysis of scientific studies.
I felt the same way. Dr Gundry is a guest on his show for us to learn, Paul acts like he knows everything. We know what Paul likes, now let’s hear someone else talk
@@JamesTateWilson I don't think Paul is arrogant. I think he feels an obligation to point out flaws that agree hidden in the fine detail. For example, if your going to cite a study that contains fat, it is very important what type of fat is being used. Paul is open to being wrong, and he well adjust his perspective, but it had to be backed up. Look, he's gone from full carnivore to quasi, because he admits carbs can be use for good in the body, provided they are in the right amounts, and evolutionary consistent.
What the fruitarians that only eat fruit and are skin and bones. I don't see any fat on them
Agree
"Now you're interrupting me."
- Paul Saladino
lmao. you didn't let the man speak unless it was a point he agreed with you on.
Amazing debate! I want to hear more of these debates with other respected doctors, scientists and pioneers who hold opposing opinions. Mark Hyman would be an amazing guest! Ive been following him since the start of my journey back in 2012
Mark is great- read his FOOD book cover to cover.
The thing I’ve always loved about Gundrys teaching is that everything always goes right along with the scriptures. I have benefited so much from following his recommendations including healing myself from arthritis and IBS.
I think he is a 7 day Adventist. Most from Loma Linda CA are- it is a very healthy area. They love their plants.
Nice friendly debate. Main difference: Gundry is patient-facing. He has witnessed many patients heal. Paul goes off his own health. I agree with Gundry on fruit. It can be pretty terrible for autoimmune disease. Paul is also unusually active. He surfs four plus hours a day. His caloric needs are very different. He’s also eating native fruit that isnt sprayed down to survive the transport and selling in US.
A moderator would help on the next debate. It would be nice for someone to make sure each person talks an equal amount of time.
I thought Saladino was being an ass and trying to do a hit job on Gundry’s work. Saladino seemed more interested in arguing with Gundry about minor points than allowing Gundry to share the premise of his book.
Didn’t learn anything about Gundry’s book or thoughts because Saladino was not interested in having Gundry share his knowledge with the audience. Saladino was just trying to do a hit job.
I cant imagine how exhausting it is for Paul though...
Don't forget: There is plenty of olive oil in nature everywhere year round.
No olive oil in the U.K and its cetainly not in nature everywhere all year round??? Please state what the evidence of your wildly inaccurate claims are given the limited grow zones with adequate grow days per year that olives require.
@@blackbirdsinging6264 lol. Gundry's diet is a olive oil centered diet but he is constantly talking about "fruits in season". Many contradictions in his advices...
Dear Paul and Steven, Thank you so much for showing the ability to have a discussion with different opinions. Paul, because it is a very rare occasion to find a high level discussion between a carnivore and omnivore, please include the main discussion points between carnivores and vegetarians/vegans like TMAO, mTOR, origins of insulin resistance and progression of cardiovascular disease in relation to diet. This would be very helpful in my own quest to find the proper allocation between animal and plant based nutrition.
He is not a strict Carnivore anymore, despite his channel name- he is Animal Based so honey, fruit, raw dairy are all fair game- no pun intended.
Two your inquiry, clearly it is processed food and sugar that are the root cause of most metabolic issues.
Great JOB PAUL!! U held your own!! and great Gundry is willing to talk to you!! NO one talked about Oxalates !!! That is a problem also !!
Saw Dr G on Mercola last week....he mentioned you Paul a couple times. Can’t wait to listen.... looking for that LA debate
It's interesting because I don't agree with nearly anything Gundry said in the beginning of this podcast, but he was spitting fire in Dr Mercola's podcast. Strange disconnect here.
Wish Paul had allowed Dr Gundry to talk more - I thought Dr Gundry was doing a good job of explaining his experience and knowledge when allowed to. The question of did eating sea food give us our intelligence or meat is one I wish they talked more on.
It's the Omega 3, either from brains or fish.
superb debate. when these guys try to prove each other wrong, we all benefit.
I like what he said at the end that time restricted eating will help you get away with things you usually wouldn't.
Maaaan o maan i was waiting on this debate!
are mice even carnivores? why do a study on feeding them fats then use it as some sort of proof of how it behaves in humans? good grief
Mice are carnivores, actually omnivores. I’ve emptied lots of box traps and see partial mice that were eaten by their cell mates!
We have cured many diseases in mice, unfortunately it hasn't translated to humans every time
Mice are omnivores but they mostly eat insects in the wild and are a completely different species lol
great interview Paul! Nice to see two great minds debating and not afraid to do it.
Awesome podcast. Great to hear two people disagree on many topics but still remain respectful. Speaking of such, when are you and Layne Norton going to have another go?😉
Maybe actual punches will be thrown this time!😁
Loved the debate... Two of my favorite source of knowledge.. million thanks
Fabulous! Both men a wealth of knowledge and agreed with way more than disagreed! Thanks so much. 🎉
Man that was a vastly different podcast than Dr Gundrys podcast.
He hardly, if ever interrupted you. He allowed you to share your opinion, treated you respectfully nor did he tell you that you were wrong, where as you seemed intent (based on the fact you went to Africa to get as much information on the Sudsa) telling him how wrong he was and how better your way of eating is better than his, not even giving your guest the last word.
Not cool.
Mr Paul my friend. I’m 55 years old over weight from an American standard diet. all my life I hear is studies, studies ( a lot of BS and money making result studies) I’m all in a you! You’re discovering true healthy results. God bless you and may Jesus be with and protect you through this journey
Hello Dr. Paul, I have been steering towards a full carnivore diet over the past few months. I think it would be great if you could put together a list of YES and NO foods based of the combination of knowledge from both you and Dr. Gundry. Pick the foods both of you agree on and put together a list of foods you both agree are good for us. This would likely produce a diet that is easier to adhere to than going hard core in either direction. Thanks for the great videos and great information.
I love both these guys. They are working towards the truth. There will be some loses but that’s where they say you have to see how you feel and check your numbers and exclude until they are right. Then reintroduce to find your specific triggers.
I loved that you had opposing views for the doctor. I just wish you plan to go back to the same tribe or even maybe a different tribe at different seasons to see if their diets change. I appreciate that you even went to do this. No one can push back on your experience because you were actually there. So to make your points seal tight, it would be great to experience all seasons to make that complete. P.s.stay a little longer as well maybe two weeks instead. It's a larger sample size. Great job though! Love your work!!
Their diet does not change much- he even said that. They eat fruit and honey pretty much all the time.
Respect to both of you.
Kudos to Gundry...a brave man.
Not brave at all- smart and confident. He did not stutter.
It is ironic that Carnivore MD cites a paper in which increased consumption of FRUITS and VEGETABLES leads to lower waist circumference, lower inflammation, and lower systolic blood pressure. I thought plants were bad Saladino...
Thank you! Lively debate, so needed.
Two very strong personalities that have very strong opinions.
I find the reasoning for seasonal dietary "restrictions" logical, but let's not forget that honey for instance, has possibly the best shelf life of any whole food.
Also, What about our ancestors living in the inhospitable North or South where the seasons are extreme? My ancestors are Icelanders and Scandinavian where nothing green grows for up to 9 months out of the year. All our traditions celebrate meat and fat. Mainly from lamb nose to tail.
Always a fantastic point. People forget this that green stuff is seasonal and very limited. That's why today's people don't know what we are supposed to eat because they think plants magically grow in the produce department of whole foods :) Think of the long distance transportation costs to get all those tropical fruits to far north latitudes.
Lovely debate. Defenetely both of the doctors here are contributing to the advancement of medicine (unlike vast majority just write prescription for their living).
Thanks both of you !
Additionally quick tip on papaya. Make sure that when you eat them they are fully ripened. I wrecked my guts for 48 hours eating underripe recently.
Same with banana. Had a rough night!
these podcasts are the best! keep them coming dr. Paul!
Around 24:15 Dr Gundry mentioned that the only larged brained animals are either aquatic or humans, implying that meat didn't make the lions grow big brains.
My personal theory on this is that humans having big brains was mostly made possible by our upright gait which allows our heavy heads to be supported above the centre of mass of the body. Lions would need an unreasonably strong neck to support a large skull. Dolphins om the other hand can afford big brains since their necks are thick and continuous with their torsos so that they are aerodynamic, besides their weight is mostly supported by the water.
So grateful for this segment - could you imagine sitting down and sharing a papaya with these Doctors? 🙏🏼☺️
Love gardening but had to remove my beautifully grown spinach and chard plants from my garden 😥
Spinach are great...to Poison insects that are eating your garden 😆
Super interesting. Please do this again! Love the both of you!
I used to follow the Plant Paradox but was still bloated and developed some muscle mass loss, after Dr Gundry interviewed Paul about the carnivore diet, and I realized I wasn't eating near enough protein and fiber was causing my bloating, I switched.
So happy I did.
These Drs agree on lots of things.
I had a similar experience- found my balance now and I am happy. I.F. is very important especially if you need to lose weight. If not, and you are eating whole foods, less important...just some 18:6 is fine. Keeping the feeding window short is very clearly great advise for anyone. Even my surgeon told me that, just before he removed my gallbladder. He said we must allow our digestive systems time every day to rest.
If you want to piss off Paul the most: refer to Blue zones, say fibre is very important and a lot of it....
He debunked that whole mythical idea in his book. It doesn't piss him off at all.
Sally Fallon, Weston Price Foundation board member, wrote a book, "Nourishing Diet" that does a fabulous job of discounting the conclusions drawn by the investigators of the Blue Zone theory.
Two big brains in one interview- great! Loved when they kept referring to each other by their first names in a mildly passive aggressive way. Good, passionate debate. They both made a lot of sense. Dr. Gundry is a wealth of experience. Dr. Paul raises some interesting points. Many are from his personal experience whereas Dr. G. has tested on 10's of thousands of patients and has seen the patterns. What Dr. G. said about fruit makes sense and supports what Dr. Lustig also believes. I get that Dr. Paul is metabolically healthy however most Americans are not. I think for most, limiting whole fruits is a best practice. I still eat berries and avocados and fruits disguised as plants...as well as grass finished meats. I am an omnivore. I read and really liked The Plant Paradox. I want to read The Canivore Code when I have time. Usually the truth lies someone in between.
Dr gundry is a genius. He has 50 years of cardiac surgery experience
@@thelion2087 What are you saying? I read his book. He does know a lot. He leans a little more on the plant side. I lean a little more on the meat side. I just feel better when I eat it- has by far more nutrients. From your thumbnail I think you are a carnivore and you hate Gundry. You think he is all about plants but that is not all true. His book is Plant PARADOX- it is not what you think. He states people should actually avoid many plants- that they have chemical defense systems. You should read his book. Don't be too quick to judge.
Interesting debate. Perhaps simply stating that we agree that humans eating non grain foods, having never eaten processed foods, in a primitive setting can eat just about anything and be in good health.
Great debate your giving a lot of people good information about diet and health ,there’s no one diet fits all ,get all vit and minerals in all natural food source.
I’ve done the plant paradox diet. I’m feeling so much better. I’m very interested in carnivore though so this debate is awesome.
Me too. I lost weight and felt good but after a while, being mostly plant based I felt like I was getting deficient. I was working out pretty hard too. I have reintroduced some meat and my life force has returned. I really wanted to be plant based or vegan for ethical reasons but it just wasn't working for me. How about you?
short term carnivore is great. Long term it will destroy your liver and gut. Your liver will no longer break down the iron and keep in mind ammonia poisoning.
Paul says you can't promulgate the notion that the Hadza ate so much fiber, but then admits he was only there for a week--then still tries to claim he knows how much baobab fruit they eat. Then he tries to extrapolate his small sample size of the days he ate honey with them to the entire year. Paul is just as guilty as he claims others are when it comes to cherry picking data.
Love this conversation.
I follow you both + Mercola + Asprey and been trying to find a my way as you agree on lots but then again disagree on many :)
I wonder if Dr. Gundry knew this guy was gonna be busting his chops. Not fair without warning. Obviously He, Paul did plan it. Not fair w/o a heads up. You Paul plan your strategy but dont give Gundry the same chance to prepare? Not cool. Blind siding is like a sucker punch. Dr. Gundry does well though in spite of being blindsided. Dr Gundry knows the science.
Exactly. Dr. Gundry is seeing patients 6 days/week and knows his stuff well. I reversed my Crohn's on his program, and while I eat lots of plant material, I still include plenty of pasture-raised meats in my diet. I'm really curious to know what Paul is doing all day in Costa Rica when he isn't surfing and working with heartandsoil. I strongly doubt he's working with patients to the extent of dr.gundry
Sorry Paul not convinced on the fructose - fructose of any source (including fruit and raw honey ) always makes me feel terrible ( that’s after healing my gut with animal foods ) maybe I’m more like the Maasai ( and you’d have to say they are more robust, taller and stronger facial structures compared to Hazda. Also they have less cavities…. So 🤔 but I do agree I feel better with some carbs I like the raw milk 🥛 Thanks for the friendly debate ✌️
There are so many podcasts out there on nutrition. The ones that are most helpful to me as a non expert trying to make his way in the confusion are where there are people from different perspectives. At least this way one hears the argument from both sides and can make up one's own mind about what to do. The less helpful podcasts etc, albeit still informative, are the ones where you have people who have the same perspective as there is so much confirmation bias coming into play. So I appreciate that PS reaches out to people with different perspectives than his to debate. It's not surprising it's hard to get guests sometimes as these are not easy debates to have. It's never going to be easy for someone to hold on to their beliefs, body of work, research, personal experience, business interests etc lightly enough to allow in divergent/contradictory information (PS included!). However, this is science, isn't it, and it's the only way nutritional science will ever get any clearer to the average man/woman on the street. Big thumbs up. I admire the vitality that Saladino shows in his work.
Have you done a teaching on gut biome health? Other people are saying you need plant fiber especially as it concerns cancer treatments and the body responding to said treatments.
For me, I need a simple answer, but this video didn’t provide that answer. After all of my Army years as a runner with five of those years as a vegetarian, it was not until this year (in retirement) that my weight came down effortlessly along with my blood pressure by eating KETO (almost Carnivore) and practicing intermittent fasting. Now, I’m trying to build confidence that Carnivore is NOT going to bring forth a heart attack because by not consuming “sugar” - in all its forms - I am not causing oxidation of LDL’s, thus keeping them from tearing into my artery walls and building plaque. I’m not a doctor or medical scientist, so I didn’t get support (if it was in this discussion) for my dietary method by listening to this discussion! Dr Gundry, like Dr Perlmutter, has changed course with they’re recommendations over the last several years, but they have not convinced me that they’re changes are correct. My fear is that if I start including fruit and vegetables that are high in sugar, I’m going set the stage for plaque formation.
Terry
I wish my nutrition classes were this captivating and interesting!
Love the debate . Need another one.😊
“...but you can disagree with me if you hav literature to collaborate your position”
that's how it's done!