How about that? A nice and lively discussion here about wiring, with a lot of experiences and contributions and insights! It's nice to see that so many of us share a passion about our common, beautiful hobby, isn't it? After more than three decades of taking care for bonsaï and experimenting a lot, now I think there are more ways than one, depending on many things and circumstances. At the moment, I think you should do what works for you. And, about wiring, I think that wiring has to do its job, it's as simple as that for me. And I'm happy with my alu wiring, and unwinding an re-using it. Good luck to everybody!
Unfortunately, this video is well intended, but it is showing bad techniques! Wire, especially the thin wire should be unspun rather than cut off. When wire is applied, at the end, there should be a little hook with the end of the wire turned up and back. It’s easy to grab that with the Jin pliers, and unspin it back to the anchor point. Then find the other end, and unspin it. The entire wire can then be pulled out of the tree. Do the small wires first, then do the larger wires. Why not cut it off? It’s easy to accidentally cut a small twig when trying to get those blunt wire cutters into position. Also, if the wire HAS cut in, the wire is embedded into the branch. It’s impossible to cut thru the wire without also cutting into the branch on either side of the wire. If you unspin the wire, you can lift it straight out of the groove the wire has made. Sure, there’s wire scar, but at least you didn’t make it worse by also cutting the branch wood on either side of the wire! JBP should be wired with copper rather than aluminum, but unwiring the same technique is used. Really heavy copper (gauge 10 or larger) might be too stiff to unspin, so that might have to be cut. But large wire usually doesn’t cut in as badly as the small wire on small branches does. Another bad technique: he says he’s taking the wire off in the fall, but is going to wait until spring to rewire. Fall is the BEST time to wire JBP. In the spring, you have new shoots extending and it’s easier to damage the shoots. In the fall, the tree is getting ready for winter, and isn’t growing, so the wood is stronger, and better able to tolerate the stress of wiring. Another reason for unspinning and removing whole pieces of wire is when you cut it into chunks, it’s easy to miss some wire, and leave some in the tree. I have found chunks of wire stuck in the crotches of branches from where other people have cut wires, but didn’t remove all the chunks. When I unwire a tree, I usually never have to use wire cutters at all. I use the Jin pliers to grab the wire, and unspin it. It was awkward at first, but I’ve learned how to do it with both hands, and can unspin in either direction. once you get the hang of it, it’s faster, too. And safer for the tree. His advice of removing wire just before it starts to cut in is correct. He was also correct in saying to remove the wire in the opposite sequence of applying it. That is, start at the top, remove the small wire on a branch, then remove the medium wire on the branch, then remove the large wire from that branch. Then go on to the next branch. Start at the top, and work your way down. That little tree would only take about 1/2 hour to unwind. He had to take care not to cut any branches. If you just unspin, you won’t cut any! Much safer, and faster.
By the way, did you notice the crossed wires? That shows that whoever applied the wire didn’t have good technique either. Generally speaking, wires should not be crossed over. It creates a “hot spot” on the branch when you do that, and it’s just unsightly. If you MUST cross a wire, do it so that it doesn’t show.
I totally agree ... use copper for the right tree, do not cross and unspin the wire when possible. Except: big copper wire cannot be unspun without using a lot of force and that could be risky.
I couldn't agree more! I use a ferm, older table leg (from my working table). I even use most of my wire several times; no problem at all. The reason we all might know: it's pretty costly to use new wire all the time! And it's not necessary.
Copper will loose its tension, if you straighten it again. It will be only useful for guy wire after the first use. Alu will break, if you straighten it more than one or two times.
@@bonsai-zone Thank you for responding. However, I cannot agree. First: I do not use copper wire (because I don't need to and because it's expensive). Second: your comment about alu. That means, you say that it can be at least re-used one or two times (that already would save quite a lot of money...)? I agree that one should be careful with 1 millimeter. But thicker, up to 3,5 millimeter, it's no problem at all to use it more often after straightening. I'm doing it for many years now. Like I said: I use a firm and steady, wooden table leg and take a firm grip on both sides of the wire. Than, slowly but with some force, rub it a few times along the (in my case) wood. Really works perfectly and you can use those pieces of wire far more than one or two times. Believe me, as I said, I'm doing it for years already...
You can predict when it has to come off ... simply by deciding when you put it on. Let me explain. There are two reasons why a branch will start to stay in position and will not need wire anymore. *First: growth.* When a tree is heavily growing and producing lengthy new branches, existing branches are thickening their live parts running more water and nutrians through the tree and it is time to take the wire off to prevent it from cutting in. They are NOT producing wood to support their structure during that time neither they do that while flushing or shooting new leaves and needles. Trees start to harden their branches right AFTER the lengthy growth has finished. *Second: dormation.* The tree stopped most of the growth and was in dormation for some time, like in winter. Trees are hardening their branches in winter and will not get any harder until after the next lengthy growth ... see "First". So: a good time to put the wire on is before dormation, a risky time would be before lengthy growth, f.e. after first or second flush. Keeping that in mind, you can wire a tree really tight before winter or any time after lengthy growth. And you should take the wire off before any length growth that will thickening the branches. _But now you are asking: what is wiring during the start of the season good for, if the branches are not hardening ?_ The easy answer is: it's pretty useless. People wire their trees at the start of the season to have them look nice, not to keep them in the intended position. The better answer is: do not wire your trees during the start of the season, it's pretty useless. Use guy wires with protection instead to put branches in mostly the right position and leave those on for the whole season. Wire them tight before winter. And another answer is: put guy wire on during the whole season, wire them tight after lengthy growth and before winter ... AND during lengthy growth if needed, but wire them pretty loose during lengthy growth ... but that is for experts only.
Never wire “tight”. I wire with the wire barely touching. Fall wiring is ideal for pines. Why? Because all new shoots that grew out last spring and summer grew straight up. We need to now direct the growth of those new shoots to grow out horizontal. All the new shoots need to get “laid down”. Next spring, the new shoots will grow up, once again. For pines, wire generally stays on for two years before I have to remove it. But, I have more mature trees in refinement, not rapidly growing trees. Rapidly growing young trees often don’t get detail wiring because what we’re concerned with is structure, not ramification.
@@adairmartin That it's simply wrong, when we are talking about wiring a complete tree, what is the most often procedure. If you wire a whole tree loose, you have to wait until the branches gets thicker before you could make real bends ... instead of curves. Curves look unnatural. If you wire loose in fall, you will have to wait until around next June until the wiring will be useful for bending. You are right, if you are wiring fresh shoots from this year, wire them loose, they are delicate. But that is a very special and rare case.
@@bonsai-zone you misunderstood me. I never wire “loose”. Kathy Shaner used to advocate wiring “loose” where the wire didn’t touch. I’m not saying that. When I wire, the wire just barely touches. There should be no visible gap between wire and branch. But, I also don’t apply pressure so that the wire is pressing onto the bark. As for curves and bends… I generally don’t apply wire and then bend the branch into position. If you do, you will create gaps in the wire where it doesn’t touch. Instead, I bend the branch AS I wire. Then, when the wire is applied, the branch is where you want it, with the wire evenly lightly touching. I learned this technique by watching Daisaku Nomoto wire. I had a major epiphany watching him!
How about that? A nice and lively discussion here about wiring, with a lot of experiences and contributions and insights! It's nice to see that so many of us share a passion about our common, beautiful hobby, isn't it? After more than three decades of taking care for bonsaï and experimenting a lot, now I think there are more ways than one, depending on many things and circumstances. At the moment, I think you should do what works for you. And, about wiring, I think that wiring has to do its job, it's as simple as that for me. And I'm happy with my alu wiring, and unwinding an re-using it. Good luck to everybody!
Unfortunately, this video is well intended, but it is showing bad techniques! Wire, especially the thin wire should be unspun rather than cut off. When wire is applied, at the end, there should be a little hook with the end of the wire turned up and back. It’s easy to grab that with the Jin pliers, and unspin it back to the anchor point. Then find the other end, and unspin it. The entire wire can then be pulled out of the tree. Do the small wires first, then do the larger wires.
Why not cut it off? It’s easy to accidentally cut a small twig when trying to get those blunt wire cutters into position. Also, if the wire HAS cut in, the wire is embedded into the branch. It’s impossible to cut thru the wire without also cutting into the branch on either side of the wire. If you unspin the wire, you can lift it straight out of the groove the wire has made. Sure, there’s wire scar, but at least you didn’t make it worse by also cutting the branch wood on either side of the wire!
JBP should be wired with copper rather than aluminum, but unwiring the same technique is used. Really heavy copper (gauge 10 or larger) might be too stiff to unspin, so that might have to be cut. But large wire usually doesn’t cut in as badly as the small wire on small branches does.
Another bad technique: he says he’s taking the wire off in the fall, but is going to wait until spring to rewire. Fall is the BEST time to wire JBP. In the spring, you have new shoots extending and it’s easier to damage the shoots. In the fall, the tree is getting ready for winter, and isn’t growing, so the wood is stronger, and better able to tolerate the stress of wiring.
Another reason for unspinning and removing whole pieces of wire is when you cut it into chunks, it’s easy to miss some wire, and leave some in the tree. I have found chunks of wire stuck in the crotches of branches from where other people have cut wires, but didn’t remove all the chunks.
When I unwire a tree, I usually never have to use wire cutters at all. I use the Jin pliers to grab the wire, and unspin it. It was awkward at first, but I’ve learned how to do it with both hands, and can unspin in either direction. once you get the hang of it, it’s faster, too. And safer for the tree.
His advice of removing wire just before it starts to cut in is correct.
He was also correct in saying to remove the wire in the opposite sequence of applying it. That is, start at the top, remove the small wire on a branch, then remove the medium wire on the branch, then remove the large wire from that branch. Then go on to the next branch. Start at the top, and work your way down.
That little tree would only take about 1/2 hour to unwind. He had to take care not to cut any branches. If you just unspin, you won’t cut any! Much safer, and faster.
By the way, did you notice the crossed wires? That shows that whoever applied the wire didn’t have good technique either. Generally speaking, wires should not be crossed over. It creates a “hot spot” on the branch when you do that, and it’s just unsightly. If you MUST cross a wire, do it so that it doesn’t show.
I totally agree ... use copper for the right tree, do not cross and unspin the wire when possible.
Except: big copper wire cannot be unspun without using a lot of force and that could be risky.
I reuse all my wire if you rub your wire against a metal chair it straightens it out like it’s brand new
I couldn't agree more! I use a ferm, older table leg (from my working table). I even use most of my wire several times; no problem at all. The reason we all might know: it's pretty costly to use new wire all the time! And it's not necessary.
Copper will loose its tension, if you straighten it again. It will be only useful for guy wire after the first use.
Alu will break, if you straighten it more than one or two times.
@bonsai-zone not if you put it in a fire for awhile and let it cool slowly
@@jameswalker3416 True, for copper wire.
@@bonsai-zone Thank you for responding. However, I cannot agree. First: I do not use copper wire (because I don't need to and because it's expensive). Second: your comment about alu. That means, you say that it can be at least re-used one or two times (that already would save quite a lot of money...)? I agree that one should be careful with 1 millimeter. But thicker, up to 3,5 millimeter, it's no problem at all to use it more often after straightening. I'm doing it for many years now. Like I said: I use a firm and steady, wooden table leg and take a firm grip on both sides of the wire. Than, slowly but with some force, rub it a few times along the (in my case) wood. Really works perfectly and you can use those pieces of wire far more than one or two times. Believe me, as I said, I'm doing it for years already...
You can predict when it has to come off ... simply by deciding when you put it on. Let me explain. There are two reasons why a branch will start to stay in position and will not need wire anymore.
*First: growth.* When a tree is heavily growing and producing lengthy new branches, existing branches are thickening their live parts running more water and nutrians through the tree and it is time to take the wire off to prevent it from cutting in. They are NOT producing wood to support their structure during that time neither they do that while flushing or shooting new leaves and needles. Trees start to harden their branches right AFTER the lengthy growth has finished.
*Second: dormation.* The tree stopped most of the growth and was in dormation for some time, like in winter. Trees are hardening their branches in winter and will not get any harder until after the next lengthy growth ... see "First".
So: a good time to put the wire on is before dormation, a risky time would be before lengthy growth, f.e. after first or second flush.
Keeping that in mind, you can wire a tree really tight before winter or any time after lengthy growth.
And you should take the wire off before any length growth that will thickening the branches.
_But now you are asking: what is wiring during the start of the season good for, if the branches are not hardening ?_
The easy answer is: it's pretty useless. People wire their trees at the start of the season to have them look nice, not to keep them in the intended position.
The better answer is: do not wire your trees during the start of the season, it's pretty useless. Use guy wires with protection instead to put branches in mostly the right position and leave those on for the whole season. Wire them tight before winter.
And another answer is: put guy wire on during the whole season, wire them tight after lengthy growth and before winter ... AND during lengthy growth if needed, but wire them pretty loose during lengthy growth ... but that is for experts only.
Never wire “tight”. I wire with the wire barely touching. Fall wiring is ideal for pines. Why? Because all new shoots that grew out last spring and summer grew straight up. We need to now direct the growth of those new shoots to grow out horizontal. All the new shoots need to get “laid down”. Next spring, the new shoots will grow up, once again. For pines, wire generally stays on for two years before I have to remove it. But, I have more mature trees in refinement, not rapidly growing trees. Rapidly growing young trees often don’t get detail wiring because what we’re concerned with is structure, not ramification.
@@adairmartin That it's simply wrong, when we are talking about wiring a complete tree, what is the most often procedure. If you wire a whole tree loose, you have to wait until the branches gets thicker before you could make real bends ... instead of curves. Curves look unnatural. If you wire loose in fall, you will have to wait until around next June until the wiring will be useful for bending.
You are right, if you are wiring fresh shoots from this year, wire them loose, they are delicate. But that is a very special and rare case.
@@bonsai-zone you misunderstood me. I never wire “loose”. Kathy Shaner used to advocate wiring “loose” where the wire didn’t touch. I’m not saying that. When I wire, the wire just barely touches. There should be no visible gap between wire and branch. But, I also don’t apply pressure so that the wire is pressing onto the bark.
As for curves and bends… I generally don’t apply wire and then bend the branch into position. If you do, you will create gaps in the wire where it doesn’t touch. Instead, I bend the branch AS I wire. Then, when the wire is applied, the branch is where you want it, with the wire evenly lightly touching. I learned this technique by watching Daisaku Nomoto wire. I had a major epiphany watching him!
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Why wasting good material?