Excellent video. No other gun channel on youtube that I'm aware of supplies this quality of information AND with demonstrations of the points being made. The channel is a great resource. Much appreciated!
I am a long time client of Charley Robertson / Score High Gunsmithing. I have purchased and installed many of his micro adjust pillars and his bedding compound. He taught me the importance of ZERO stress on ALL components! This of course includes the scope so of course scope rings. I also just discovered your channel. This was an excellent explanation of lapping and I just ordered the less expensive alignment tool but will upgrade when I have a bit more extra $ . Big Thank you sir !
Desert Dog, thank you again for this scope series. I’ve never lapped rings but will now look into it. I also went from not considering anything other than Leupold to now seriously looking into Trijicon. Once you look into all of their lines of scopes including Accupoint, Huron, Credo and Credo HX they have a lot to offer hunters. I actually called them and asked about the difference in the Credo and Credo HX. They said that all of those scope lines are built with the same housings and same glass, go through the same testing. The weights of the scopes and price differences just reflect different features like reticles, parallax adjustment capabilities, illumination or lack there of, etc etc. None of them are really “budget” scopes. The Huron has some excellent options if someone doesn’t care to have illumination. I’m going to try one of their scopes but don’t know how I’m ever going to decide which one.
What do you think of the Optilock system, with the plastic inserts? Sako claims, those rings do not need to be lapped because of those sleeves. Thanks, great video as always!
I’m still waiting for Desert Dogs answer to your question. Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts are very similar. I know DD won’t consider them because the current ones are made in China. How about using only the older US made rings?
Thank you. Very helpful, esp. on which alignment tool is best and expensive rings not always equating to perfect alignment. But darn, now I have to check to see if my rings need lapping!
The slide alignment tool is genius! It looks expensive too. Judging by how many examples here needed lapping plus the two piece mounts being an almost guarantee, my take is if you're on a budget, get the lapping gear and simply go straight to it.
DD, you’ve opened up another door that I’ll need to explore. Over the past few years, I’ve seen more things on your channel that I’ve later bought and learned how to use… Looks like lapping tools will be on my list after the holidays, lol! Take care and be well. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Great informative video DD, I am now gonna start paying better attention to my rings.. You have a real talent making these informative videos, keep up the great work!! The whole reason i looked this topic up was i was noticing a light gap underneath one of my talley lightweight rings while mounting a Zeiss V4 conquest 4-16x50..
The gun builder I've used the most always laps the bottom portion of the rings but not the top rings. When I contacted Talley, the man there stated to me he never laps his rings because they are precision cut and to a tight tolerance that if you lap them, you're opening up the ring inner diameter and you may get scope jump during recoil. Lapping also potentially changes ring torque recommendations. I bought the Wheeler ring lap kit and sure enough noticed uneven wear while in the process of lapping some rings so that told me it's necessary. However, with my most recent builds and using Nightforce ultralite rings, I didn't lap, just lazy. But I haven't noticed any adverse issue. Over the years when I've talked to a few ring manufacturers, none recommended lapping. When I spoke to some reps at Zeiss, Swarovski, Leupold, Leica, and NF, none told me that lapping was necessary if using quality rings. Another issue, like you mentioned, is changing pic rails and or actions. In recent years, I've decided to use pic rails on all my rifles and buy fewer scopes. So, I use the NF ultralite rings and just switch the scope out on rifles. So, even if the rings are lapped but there's a flaw in a different action or its pic rail, I'm still running into an issue. 'Ultimately, I think it's a good idea to lap
Manufactures are in CYA mode when it comes to lapping. Leupold says their rings don't need lapping, but I know a management employee and he laps every set of rings. Every gunsmith I've ever encountered laps rings. Years ago, every top competition shooter lapped or bedded rings; but now with custom actions, precision rails, and precise 1-piece mounts - many of those guys no longer bed. A factory hunting rifle with Tally rings will almost always need to be lapped if you WANT a stress-free scope installation. Even if you had a 100% perfectly machined set of rings with no flaws, you are still at the mercy of the rifle receiver and bases/rail.
That’s why I use Dnz one piece system only. I’ve yet to put my alignment tool in them and show the need to lap. Perhaps just lucky. Rugers proprietary rings are cast….they are poureous to some extent…. They always show the need for it….. I hate them. But if you got an m77 you’re stuck with them ….
First 5 minutos and deserves my comment, I never saw any gunsmith here in Europe using or knowing the existence of those tool and their importance. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the helpful video. I was interested in that slider style alignment tool and discovered something else Armament By Design makes: a scope ring alignment bar for installing rings on a rail or dovetail bases. That might tell you when your rail or scope bases are off.
If you wanted to hit the lapping trifecta I would suggest Leapers UTG rings holding a Burris Fullfield atop a PSA AR..You would probably hit a million views with the results..
So not to be one of those "the dinosaurs i've killed with my 30-06 didn't asked me if my scope rings were lapped or not" guys but how much does this have an effect on accuracy? Is it really significant? Is it really worth the effort of getting the proper equipment and whatnot? Thank you!
I am one that cleans off my lapping bar and tighten up the ring base with bar and just lap them anyway. I most always find a small issue. Even if the bore is within specs, there are other variables to make them straight with the tubes. I have many years working as a machinist. Once I Locktite the bases I do an easy lap and check surfaces.
I looked into lapping years ago....it seemed a bit of effort and expense...I seem to recall "proper" scope alignment as a main issue. Nowadays..I've moved to one piece picatinny rails and one piece (QD). Spuhr...so...I guess I've dodged the lapping issue....assuming my Spuhr is as aligned as it is expense. I liked the look of your alignment checking tool...makes sense.. Recently I was forced to bed an EGW picatinny rail onto a Rem 700 B Series. I ran out of adjustment (200yard zero) for my Pulsar Scope. This hadn't happened before on several rifles. The front of the rail was sitting up in the air (say 1 mm?) when the rear was snugged up. I bedded using JB weld..not tightening the front of rail down... elevation issue perfectly resolved.. I then bedded the rear under snug tension to improve and uniform contact area. Thanks for a well informed and balanced video again. 👍👍👍👍👍
Correct me if I’m wrong, if you use a one piece picatinny rail vs the two piece dove tail bases, the alignment tool is not really needed. But with dove tail bases alignment is mandatory since each ring is mounted to a base and turned 90 degrees independently.
Not true. Watch the video where I test both. Most two-piece rings, regardless of rail type, will need to be lapped. How much the rings cost also has little to do with it.
I’ve always used Seekins or Talley rings and I’ve lapped them all. Watching this video I’m thinking that buying mid priced rings or budget rings is smarter than buying high dollar rings that you have to lap anyway. If you have to lap an 80$ set of rings why spend 200$ on a set that you also have to lap? At the end of the day you’re getting the same result.
_THANK YOU for an excellent video ❗❗❗🙏😔🙏_ Me, lap on every installation, period. I have a question, what is the best means of installing a scope that will "isolate" it, from, the imperfections of the mounting system and the imperfections of the rifle and possible "movements" due to temperature variations and vibrations at/due to firing? Is it advisable to "bed" everything? I trust my questions are clear. I have read all of the comments and replys so far and have some ideas, but I dare pose these questions. 🌲🙏🖖🙏😔🙏🌲
Just ordered the alignment tool. It would be great if they had the ability to put a bore sight laser in the tube so we could check windage alignment of rings too (paired with bore sight laser in chamber).
Claiming rings are "Lapping-Free" is a good selling point. Also, people who don't know what they are doing can easily remove too much material and destroy/weaken the rings. Even if rings are machine perfectly, other variables might require the rings to be lapped.
You don't lap them. The older I get, the less impressed I am with vertically split rings. They were fine in the past when scope tubes on hunting scopes were thicker; but seem to cause issues more frequently with modern ultra-light scopes.
The rifle, the impulse by Savage, I’m using for my elk hunt has the pic rail and the receiver as on unit. Would this help eliminate the alignment issues? I’m still going to use the tool to check the rings. Bedding a scope is defiantly something I can’t trust with doing properly.😂
I shoot long distance with 338 Lapua, but I just don't want to deal with this for some reason. Seems annoying. I just put all my effort into reloading excellent ammo and buying quality components for the rifle.
The only rings I’ve found that don’t need lapping, in my experience, are the S&K Cone-Trol rings and similar type rings. I’ve found very few rings that don’t need a least some lapping.
4 points . Lv this videos & last one. Heard what you said of two piece mounts. And i dont use pics. Request more info on two piece mounts and two on a one piece 3 screw classic set up. Sometimes use DD like them lots . Your take ?
Thumbs up on the false positive comment with the coned alignment tool. I never understood why they were so popular. Also, need to lap is not a function of the price of the rings. The rings could be perfect, but the bases, mount, hole locations, pins… could be off. Your test rig demonstrates that well. Big fan of Burris Signature Rings with the knuckle style plastic inserts that can make up for some misalignment.
Thanks for the great content, super informative and helpful! Any recommendations on lapping compound? I've heard Aluminum Oxide is the way to go, but having serious trouble finding any. Would love to hear your opinion on best types/brands of lapping compound. Thanks again, and cheers!
Don't overthink or overcomplicate a simple thing. The Cheap Wheeler 220-grit compound works great. Back when I didn't know any better, I used to finish off lapping with 600-grit Clover. The reality is; none of that is necessary. I think polishing the inside of the rings to a mirror finish is not beneficial. These days, I use 280-grit Clover on all my rings, and that's it. Don't overwork the lapping bar; just take off enough material for alignment, and stop. After that, the REALLY IMPORTANT part is cleaning all the lapping compound and sludge off the rings. Then, I'll cold blue the inside of steel rings and leave aluminum rings bare.
High quality 1-piece mounts (like the Spuhr mount shown in this video) rarely need lapping. Most cheap 1-piece mounts do need lapping. Buy one of the ring alignment tools I linked to in the description and test it yourself. Testing is the only way to know.
There's also the diameter of the scope itself that MUST be measured. Just because it says 30mm on the box doesn't mean that the scope is ACTUALLY 30mm EXACTLY so you MUST measure to be sure. If you don't measure, then you're just guessing and assuming because you don't KNOW for sure. So your lapping needs to account for the scope diameter by using a lapping tool that is the same diameter or closest possible to the ACTUAL scope diameter.
Cant you just tighten the 2-piece rings to the base while they are installed on a lapping bar? Just go around and slowly tighten everything up, then remove the tops and install the scope.
@@p39483 If you do that, you are stressing the ring and base. Then, when you remove the alignment bar, the rings/base are either damaged or spring back to a misaligned state. Neither is good.
No, just make sure you clean every bit of compound, sludge, and residue off the rings before scope install. If your rings are steel, it's also a good idea to cold-blue the exposed metal.
Ok, so I have been an avid hunter for years. I have never lapped scope rings. I don’t think any of the animals I have taken have ever noticed. Can you point me in the direction of any good videos that demonstrate improved accuracy before and after scope ring lapping? I need some convincing.
I don't think he's saying there's necessarily an accuracy improvement, but rather, if there is uneven stress on the scope from misaligned rings, you can damage the outside of the tube and/or affect the working of the internals. If you just dial to zero and leave it, it could be fine. But if it's a scope where you dial, it may not work properly. Distortion in the tube could prevent the reticle from moving past a certain point, or it could move inconsistently, for example.
@@davideden9212 I see, so what you are saying is that if it is a scope that you dial in after you have zeroed it, for various distances, then in that case it may affect the function of the scope itself and its ability to accurately respond in that way. Is that right? Could this also affect the way a scope is able to zero in the first place? I have realistically only zeroed between 30 to 40 scopes in my lifetime and I have had a couple,e of times that a quality scope would not seem to zero. Could this be reason why?
@@serosedserio6531 To your first question, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't have the experience to answer your other questions with confidence, but based on my understanding of DD's video I think the answers to your other questions are also "yes".
As stated in the video, the main purpose of lapping is to create conditions for a stress-free scope installation. A distorted scope tube might cause issues with the erector tube, turret assembly, and parallax focus mechanism/lens. I also often bed rails for the same reason. Honestly, 90% of the hunters I've encountered in my life probably wouldn't know it if their scopes were having issues. A fully functional and precise scope is important to me. Another benefit of lapping is more contact between the rings and scope tube; so it takes less clamping force to prevent scope slippage.
@desertdogoutdoors1113 yea I've had to lap them lil bit. But very minimal compared to some I've tried in past. I also found that the mounts were almost always the culprit. Never personally exp a action being drilled off square but sure it happens
I agree. Burris made great scopes and rings when they supported rhe American worker. They have gone downhill in the last several years contracting out to Asian factories that make products at a low price point.
I have a little history with burris scope that goes back to when i was a boy. I was 12 years old, and my family was moving to a new house in the process of moving people broke into our house and stole all my dads guns. There was an older man who went to church with us and found out about this happening. He sold me my first gun. It was a ruger m77 in 22-250 he knew that i loved to hunt and fish and wanted me to have the tools to do it. I mow yards and did whatever i could to pay him. His price was 200 dollars. After i paid him, i needed a scope i saved up and bought a burris 3×9 40mm that is still on the gun today. I sighted in this scope almost 30 years ago, and i have never had to adjust it.
Do I need to lap my Scope Rings? Leveling the scope to the action is more important to prevent reticle cant and loss of accuracy as distance increases. But rings should be aligned "if they need it" although not as critical as leveling.
If you torque your scope rings to 135 ft/lb then the scope will fill the voids in any imperfections or misalignments in the rings, but accuracy may suffer
@@thomaskingsbury6560 I agee, I don't think he meant 135 ft/lbs. That would break something. I'll bet his auto-correct got him, but I don't know, for sure.
In my experience having to lap rings is a way to make up for poor scope mounting procedures. Over or under torqued bases, rings or rails are most of the problem. If the problem is anything other it can usually be corrected by properly tightening the screws before having to lap the rings.
Your experience is not very extensive then. Variances in the bases/rail, reciever, and rings of only .002" will put stress on a scope tube. You will find that MOST setups NEED to be lapped (for the exception of a few high-quality 1-piece systems). This is why almost all gunsmiths lap rings. Get the cheap alignment tool in the description and I challenge you to test your set-ups. You will change your mind.
Well you just blew about 90% of your viewers out of the water in the last minute of the video: "Once you lap a set of rings, they're only good for that one rifle." Ouch. Makes perfect sense of course, but ouch. I see a lot of one-piece mounts in a lot of hunters futures.
It’s only bad if you are to poor to buy scopes for each of your rifles so you are swapping them back and forth all the time🤔😳 I am a 60+ year gun collector hunter and reloader and have owned more guns then a lot of gun stores so I might know what I am talking about! He is trying to help hunters so if you don’t want to watch move along these aren’t the drodes your looking for🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972 What on earth are you talking about? Are you trying to start a fight on a UA-cam video comment section? That's so mature. Yeah, you "might know what you're talking about...", but then again, you might be an A-hole trying to start a fight over nothing, with someone who came here to learn from someone who isn't YOU!
Doesn't make sense? Rifles with scopes have always been more than accurate and most scopes are adjusted at .25" per click at 100 yards, I know competition winners that have never even heard of ring lapping
Couldn’t sleep last night thinking about how to lap rings and here comes Desert Dog and explains it perfectly!
Man that’s weird ngl lol
Excellent video. No other gun channel on youtube that I'm aware of supplies this quality of information AND with demonstrations of the points being made. The channel is a great resource. Much appreciated!
Oh just wait, Ron Spomer will have a whole scope series in the near future 😂
@@jackbuendgen389That’s the truth! 😂
@@NCWoodlandRoamer it's uncanny. When DD comes out with a BANGER vid Ron's team swoops in and steals his thunder
@@jackbuendgen389 Yeah it happens all the time. Really kinda pathetic.
@@jackbuendgen389 Every time.
I only recently discovered this channel and I'm very glad I did. I was vaguely aware of ring lapping, but clearly haven't given it enough thought.
Dog of the Desert: Once again you have produced an interesting and informative video. Thank you for sharing your your experience.
I am a long time client of Charley Robertson / Score High Gunsmithing. I have purchased and installed many of his micro adjust pillars and his bedding compound. He taught me the importance of ZERO stress on ALL components! This of course includes the scope so of course scope rings. I also just discovered your channel. This was an excellent explanation of lapping and I just ordered the less expensive alignment tool but will upgrade when I have a bit more extra $ . Big Thank you sir !
WOW DD!! There's so many accuracy killers out there! Thanks for the great video
Bro, this is one of the best rifle channels on YT. thank you!!
Thanks for the video. I did not know of the newer non pointy alignment tool.
The "sliding collar" alignment tools are far superior to anything I've ever used.
Always making great content. I still haven’t figured out how you don’t have more followers
This video shocked me. Outstanding high value content.
Thank you!!!
Desert Dog, thank you again for this scope series. I’ve never lapped rings but will now look into it. I also went from not considering anything other than Leupold to now seriously looking into Trijicon. Once you look into all of their lines of scopes including Accupoint, Huron, Credo and Credo HX they have a lot to offer hunters. I actually called them and asked about the difference in the Credo and Credo HX. They said that all of those scope lines are built with the same housings and same glass, go through the same testing. The weights of the scopes and price differences just reflect different features like reticles, parallax adjustment capabilities, illumination or lack there of, etc etc. None of them are really “budget” scopes. The Huron has some excellent options if someone doesn’t care to have illumination. I’m going to try one of their scopes but don’t know how I’m ever going to decide which one.
Check out Vortex scopes too.
@@marcuspiera Not a fan of Vortex. I believe they are the most overpriced scopes on the market.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Yeah, I would definitely stay with Leupold over Vortex any day. But Trijicon is looking pretty good to me.
What do you think of the Optilock system, with the plastic inserts? Sako claims, those rings do not need to be lapped because of those sleeves. Thanks, great video as always!
I’m still waiting for Desert Dogs answer to your question.
Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts are very similar. I know DD won’t consider them because the current ones are made in China.
How about using only the older US made rings?
Gosh Darnitt, I have to check all my rifles now, thanks a lot DD, better get busy
Thank you. Very helpful, esp. on which alignment tool is best and expensive rings not always equating to perfect alignment. But darn, now I have to check to see if my rings need lapping!
The slide alignment tool is genius! It looks expensive too. Judging by how many examples here needed lapping plus the two piece mounts being an almost guarantee, my take is if you're on a budget, get the lapping gear and simply go straight to it.
DD, you’ve opened up another door that I’ll need to explore. Over the past few years, I’ve seen more things on your channel that I’ve later bought and learned how to use… Looks like lapping tools will be on my list after the holidays, lol!
Take care and be well.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Great informative video DD, I am now gonna start paying better attention to my rings.. You have a real talent making these informative videos, keep up the great work!! The whole reason i looked this topic up was i was noticing a light gap underneath one of my talley lightweight rings while mounting a Zeiss V4 conquest 4-16x50..
@@ZZ-uf4zv I use Talley Lighweights frequently, and have had to lap every set.
Lapping almost takes out all of the scope “bite”, so if you have to remount that scope on a different rifle, it doesn’t have the scratch rings on it.
Great info. I'm glad I get your notifications
The gun builder I've used the most always laps the bottom portion of the rings but not the top rings. When I contacted Talley, the man there stated to me he never laps his rings because they are precision cut and to a tight tolerance that if you lap them, you're opening up the ring inner diameter and you may get scope jump during recoil. Lapping also potentially changes ring torque recommendations. I bought the Wheeler ring lap kit and sure enough noticed uneven wear while in the process of lapping some rings so that told me it's necessary. However, with my most recent builds and using Nightforce ultralite rings, I didn't lap, just lazy. But I haven't noticed any adverse issue. Over the years when I've talked to a few ring manufacturers, none recommended lapping. When I spoke to some reps at Zeiss, Swarovski, Leupold, Leica, and NF, none told me that lapping was necessary if using quality rings.
Another issue, like you mentioned, is changing pic rails and or actions. In recent years, I've decided to use pic rails on all my rifles and buy fewer scopes. So, I use the NF ultralite rings and just switch the scope out on rifles. So, even if the rings are lapped but there's a flaw in a different action or its pic rail, I'm still running into an issue. 'Ultimately, I think it's a good idea to lap
Manufactures are in CYA mode when it comes to lapping. Leupold says their rings don't need lapping, but I know a management employee and he laps every set of rings. Every gunsmith I've ever encountered laps rings. Years ago, every top competition shooter lapped or bedded rings; but now with custom actions, precision rails, and precise 1-piece mounts - many of those guys no longer bed. A factory hunting rifle with Tally rings will almost always need to be lapped if you WANT a stress-free scope installation. Even if you had a 100% perfectly machined set of rings with no flaws, you are still at the mercy of the rifle receiver and bases/rail.
Great video! Clear & Concise
👍 very helpful! Thanks for sharing!
Great info and a real eye opener. Thanks.
Great Video! I think I'll buy a lapping tool!
Had no idea this was something that could be required when mounting a scope. Will get one of these tools and check mine.
That’s why I use Dnz one piece system only. I’ve yet to put my alignment tool in them and show the need to lap. Perhaps just lucky. Rugers proprietary rings are cast….they are poureous to some extent…. They always show the need for it….. I hate them. But if you got an m77 you’re stuck with them ….
First 5 minutos and deserves my comment, I never saw any gunsmith here in Europe using or knowing the existence of those tool and their importance. Thank you for sharing.
@@jorge66518 Most European hunters use a scope with a fixed mounting system.
Thanks for the helpful video.
I was interested in that slider style alignment tool and discovered something else Armament By Design makes: a scope ring alignment bar for installing rings on a rail or dovetail bases. That might tell you when your rail or scope bases are off.
Very well presented!
If you wanted to hit the lapping trifecta I would suggest Leapers UTG rings holding a Burris Fullfield atop a PSA AR..You would probably hit a million views with the results..
Bwahahaha. You are correct.
Great video. Thank you for sharing. I have learned a lot from your videos.
So not to be one of those "the dinosaurs i've killed with my 30-06 didn't asked me if my scope rings were lapped or not" guys but how much does this have an effect on accuracy? Is it really significant? Is it really worth the effort of getting the proper equipment and whatnot?
Thank you!
I am one that cleans off my lapping bar and tighten up the ring base with bar and just lap them anyway. I most always find a small issue. Even if the bore is within specs, there are other variables to make them straight with the tubes. I have many years working as a machinist. Once I Locktite the bases I do an easy lap and check surfaces.
i see new video from desert dog , i click like
Great Video! There must be a couple thousand videos on mounting and leveling scopes, but very little is said about lapping the rings. Good work!
I looked into lapping years ago....it seemed a bit of effort and expense...I seem to recall "proper" scope alignment as a main issue.
Nowadays..I've moved to one piece picatinny rails and one piece (QD). Spuhr...so...I guess I've dodged the lapping issue....assuming my Spuhr is as aligned as it is expense.
I liked the look of your alignment checking tool...makes sense..
Recently I was forced to bed an EGW picatinny rail onto a Rem 700 B Series. I ran out of adjustment (200yard zero) for my Pulsar Scope. This hadn't happened before on several rifles. The front of the rail was sitting up in the air (say 1 mm?) when the rear was snugged up.
I bedded using JB weld..not tightening the front of rail down... elevation issue perfectly resolved..
I then bedded the rear under snug tension to improve and uniform contact area.
Thanks for a well informed and balanced video again.
👍👍👍👍👍
Correct me if I’m wrong, if you use a one piece picatinny rail vs the two piece dove tail bases, the alignment tool is not really needed. But with dove tail bases alignment is mandatory since each ring is mounted to a base and turned 90 degrees independently.
Not true. Watch the video where I test both. Most two-piece rings, regardless of rail type, will need to be lapped. How much the rings cost also has little to do with it.
I’ve always used Seekins or Talley rings and I’ve lapped them all. Watching this video I’m thinking that buying mid priced rings or budget rings is smarter than buying high dollar rings that you have to lap anyway. If you have to lap an 80$ set of rings why spend 200$ on a set that you also have to lap? At the end of the day you’re getting the same result.
_THANK YOU for an excellent video ❗❗❗🙏😔🙏_
Me, lap on every installation, period.
I have a question, what is the best means of installing a scope that will "isolate" it, from, the imperfections of the mounting system and the imperfections of the rifle and possible "movements" due to temperature variations and vibrations at/due to firing?
Is it advisable to "bed" everything?
I trust my questions are clear. I have read all of the comments and replys so far and have some ideas, but I dare pose these questions.
🌲🙏🖖🙏😔🙏🌲
I’d like to see a video from you on your thoughts on barrel lengths for 30-06 and 300 win mag
I have always lapped my rings - never had any ring marks on the scopes when I removed them
Just ordered the alignment tool. It would be great if they had the ability to put a bore sight laser in the tube so we could check windage alignment of rings too (paired with bore sight laser in chamber).
Incredible video
Why do a lot of high quality rings say not to lap then? Like Nightforce rings for example. Also what if you run one scope on several rifles?
Claiming rings are "Lapping-Free" is a good selling point. Also, people who don't know what they are doing can easily remove too much material and destroy/weaken the rings. Even if rings are machine perfectly, other variables might require the rings to be lapped.
Hi DD, What does one do with vertically split rings in terms of lapping ?
You don't lap them. The older I get, the less impressed I am with vertically split rings. They were fine in the past when scope tubes on hunting scopes were thicker; but seem to cause issues more frequently with modern ultra-light scopes.
Great video!
Who makes the stock that the custom FN mauser action is sitting in? I like that it seems to have a texture to it.
Older Brown Precision stock when they were in California before moving to Texas.
So what's the general consensus on one piece versus two-piece?
The rifle, the impulse by Savage, I’m using for my elk hunt has the pic rail and the receiver as on unit. Would this help eliminate the alignment issues? I’m still going to use the tool to check the rings.
Bedding a scope is defiantly something I can’t trust with doing properly.😂
I check all set-ups. I trust nothing until I verify.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 thanks man will do
I shoot long distance with 338 Lapua, but I just don't want to deal with this for some reason. Seems annoying. I just put all my effort into reloading excellent ammo and buying quality components for the rifle.
Hopefully, a scope with a distorted tube isn't leaving performance on the table.
The only rings I’ve found that don’t need lapping, in my experience, are the S&K Cone-Trol rings and similar type rings. I’ve found very few rings that don’t need a least some lapping.
Spot on
Where do you get that picatinny test jig?
Doesn't the torque screwdriver compensate for any uneven pressure on the scope tube caused by misalingment?
No.
👍👍👍
4 points . Lv this videos & last one. Heard what you said of two piece mounts. And i dont use pics. Request more info on two piece mounts and two on a one piece 3 screw classic set up. Sometimes use DD like them lots . Your take ?
Lap them
Ok.🐎
I’d be Curious about one piece mounts like the dnz. Lapping seems necessary.because of the variables.
No matter how perfect the rings are, you are at the mercy of the rifle receiver and bases/rail.
Well…that convinces me!
I thought i knew more about things than i really do.
amazing explanation, thank you so much
Thumbs up on the false positive comment with the coned alignment tool. I never understood why they were so popular. Also, need to lap is not a function of the price of the rings. The rings could be perfect, but the bases, mount, hole locations, pins… could be off. Your test rig demonstrates that well.
Big fan of Burris Signature Rings with the knuckle style plastic inserts that can make up for some misalignment.
Thanks for the great content, super informative and helpful! Any recommendations on lapping compound? I've heard Aluminum Oxide is the way to go, but having serious trouble finding any. Would love to hear your opinion on best types/brands of lapping compound. Thanks again, and cheers!
Don't overthink or overcomplicate a simple thing. The Cheap Wheeler 220-grit compound works great. Back when I didn't know any better, I used to finish off lapping with 600-grit Clover. The reality is; none of that is necessary. I think polishing the inside of the rings to a mirror finish is not beneficial. These days, I use 280-grit Clover on all my rings, and that's it. Don't overwork the lapping bar; just take off enough material for alignment, and stop. After that, the REALLY IMPORTANT part is cleaning all the lapping compound and sludge off the rings. Then, I'll cold blue the inside of steel rings and leave aluminum rings bare.
Do one piece mounts make up for higher tolerances in the action and picatiny base? Do they need laping as often as two separate rings?
High quality 1-piece mounts (like the Spuhr mount shown in this video) rarely need lapping. Most cheap 1-piece mounts do need lapping. Buy one of the ring alignment tools I linked to in the description and test it yourself. Testing is the only way to know.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 thank you!
I’ve been using unlapped rings for years, is it too late to take the scope out and lap the rings after all these years?
Remove the scope and test it. Watch my video titled "Troubleshooting scope issues" that I posted last week.
There's also the diameter of the scope itself that MUST be measured. Just because it says 30mm on the box doesn't mean that the scope is ACTUALLY 30mm EXACTLY so you MUST measure to be sure. If you don't measure, then you're just guessing and assuming because you don't KNOW for sure. So your lapping needs to account for the scope diameter by using a lapping tool that is the same diameter or closest possible to the ACTUAL scope diameter.
Glad I bought Warne Maxima.
Cant you just tighten the 2-piece rings to the base while they are installed on a lapping bar? Just go around and slowly tighten everything up, then remove the tops and install the scope.
@@p39483 If you do that, you are stressing the ring and base. Then, when you remove the alignment bar, the rings/base are either damaged or spring back to a misaligned state. Neither is good.
Oralie, good video
Hey DD, what are your thoughts on Trijicon‘s Accupoint scopes? Are they worth it in their price range?
I much prefer battery powered illumination. The Credo and Credo HX series is awesome IMHO. but, the Accupoint is a great high-quality scope.
Good one.
Do I still need to polish the scope rings after internal cylindrical grinding?
No, just make sure you clean every bit of compound, sludge, and residue off the rings before scope install. If your rings are steel, it's also a good idea to cold-blue the exposed metal.
Ok, so I have been an avid hunter for years. I have never lapped scope rings. I don’t think any of the animals I have taken have ever noticed. Can you point me in the direction of any good videos that demonstrate improved accuracy before and after scope ring lapping? I need some convincing.
I don't think he's saying there's necessarily an accuracy improvement, but rather, if there is uneven stress on the scope from misaligned rings, you can damage the outside of the tube and/or affect the working of the internals. If you just dial to zero and leave it, it could be fine. But if it's a scope where you dial, it may not work properly. Distortion in the tube could prevent the reticle from moving past a certain point, or it could move inconsistently, for example.
@@davideden9212 I see, so what you are saying is that if it is a scope that you dial in after you have zeroed it, for various distances, then in that case it may affect the function of the scope itself and its ability to accurately respond in that way. Is that right? Could this also affect the way a scope is able to zero in the first place? I have realistically only zeroed between 30 to 40 scopes in my lifetime and I have had a couple,e of times that a quality scope would not seem to zero. Could this be reason why?
@@serosedserio6531 To your first question, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't have the experience to answer your other questions with confidence, but based on my understanding of DD's video I think the answers to your other questions are also "yes".
@@davideden9212 Thanks!
As stated in the video, the main purpose of lapping is to create conditions for a stress-free scope installation. A distorted scope tube might cause issues with the erector tube, turret assembly, and parallax focus mechanism/lens. I also often bed rails for the same reason. Honestly, 90% of the hunters I've encountered in my life probably wouldn't know it if their scopes were having issues. A fully functional and precise scope is important to me. Another benefit of lapping is more contact between the rings and scope tube; so it takes less clamping force to prevent scope slippage.
Rings should always be lapped, it is quick and easy and no reason not to do it.
Are those kokopelli alignment bars?
No. Links to alignment tool is in the description.
Good job 👍
I've had awsome luck with one piece Talley rings.
I use them all the time on builds. But as you saw in this video, they will likely need to be lapped.
@desertdogoutdoors1113 yea I've had to lap them lil bit. But very minimal compared to some I've tried in past. I also found that the mounts were almost always the culprit. Never personally exp a action being drilled off square but sure it happens
yes lap the rings
I hate that Burris sold out and went to China they made damn good scopes and had good glass for the price.
I agree. Burris made great scopes and rings when they supported rhe American worker. They have gone downhill in the last several years contracting out to Asian factories that make products at a low price point.
I have a little history with burris scope that goes back to when i was a boy. I was 12 years old, and my family was moving to a new house in the process of moving people broke into our house and stole all my dads guns. There was an older man who went to church with us and found out about this happening. He sold me my first gun. It was a ruger m77 in 22-250 he knew that i loved to hunt and fish and wanted me to have the tools to do it. I mow yards and did whatever i could to pay him. His price was 200 dollars. After i paid him, i needed a scope i saved up and bought a burris 3×9 40mm that is still on the gun today. I sighted in this scope almost 30 years ago, and i have never had to adjust it.
Do I need to lap my Scope Rings?
Leveling the scope to the action is more important to prevent reticle cant and loss of accuracy as distance increases. But rings should be aligned "if they need it" although not as critical as leveling.
level the reticle to the earth is important. Taking stress off the erector assembly by lapping rings is equally important.
If you torque your scope rings to 135 ft/lb then the scope will fill the voids in any imperfections or misalignments in the rings, but accuracy may suffer
Uhmmmmmmm……. 135 ft/lbs????? Neaux whut ah meen Vern???
@@thomaskingsbury6560 I agee, I don't think he meant 135 ft/lbs. That would break something. I'll bet his auto-correct got him, but I don't know, for sure.
Roger that Houston.
Or he was making a joke 😅
Iron sights it is...
In my experience having to lap rings is a way to make up for poor scope mounting procedures. Over or under torqued bases, rings or rails are most of the problem. If the problem is anything other it can usually be corrected by properly tightening the screws before having to lap the rings.
Your experience is not very extensive then. Variances in the bases/rail, reciever, and rings of only .002" will put stress on a scope tube. You will find that MOST setups NEED to be lapped (for the exception of a few high-quality 1-piece systems). This is why almost all gunsmiths lap rings. Get the cheap alignment tool in the description and I challenge you to test your set-ups. You will change your mind.
Well you just blew about 90% of your viewers out of the water in the last minute of the video: "Once you lap a set of rings, they're only good for that one rifle." Ouch. Makes perfect sense of course, but ouch. I see a lot of one-piece mounts in a lot of hunters futures.
@mikemelina7395 Agreed.
It’s only bad if you are to poor to buy scopes for each of your rifles so you are swapping them back and forth all the time🤔😳 I am a 60+ year gun collector hunter and reloader and have owned more guns then a lot of gun stores so I might know what I am talking about! He is trying to help hunters so if you don’t want to watch move along these aren’t the drodes your looking for🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972 You can still swap scopes between rifles without an issue. The rings become specific to the rifle/base.
@@edwardabrams4972 What on earth are you talking about? Are you trying to start a fight on a UA-cam video comment section? That's so mature. Yeah, you "might know what you're talking about...", but then again, you might be an A-hole trying to start a fight over nothing, with someone who came here to learn from someone who isn't YOU!
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Thank you for this series of videos on scopes, it's very informative.
Keep in mind that lapping rings will void the warranty with some manufacturers.
Yep, but if it needs it, it needs it.
Variables, variables, variables. 😅
Doesn't make sense? Rifles with scopes have always been more than accurate and most scopes are adjusted at .25" per click at 100 yards, I know competition winners that have never even heard of ring lapping
Cool story bro.
Anyone who laps Nightforce rings is a complete fool.
People who.claim what you claim without verifying are tools. Did you watch the video where the nightforce rings failed?????
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Do you need to edit this reply? 🙏😔🙏😔🙏😔🙏
🌲🙏🖖🙏😔🙏🌲