I absolutely love that weird hobbyist equipment is finding a """"""proper"""""" use. Always amazing to see professional equipment making it into hobbyist circles and vice versa.
Can you please organize your videos into playlists by projects? It's otherwise hard to find where exactly this project started and how long it went for.
Very nice progress! Always cool to see some well thought out designs without a ton of overengineering. I'd be interested to see how you computed the pad geometry.
Very inspiring! Amazing work. I was getting into a direct laser lithography to produce photo masks for planetarium projector star plates. I wanted to use a high NA microscope lens and just pull the focus in and out to adjust the star diameter to expose the photo resist, while an XY table moved the plate to the proper coordinate for the star position. I was working with a precision stepper stage with a 1mm pitch lead screw. Still couldn't get reliable focus variation. So I was led into exploring a similar air bearing set up for Z with high resolution feedback. That quickly got way out of my technical capabilities and financial reach, so I am just going to pay a photomask company to make them on polyester film. Much cheaper, but not as much fun!
I see a lot of similar things to my CMM rebuild FDM printer here. Except for youre using oil instead of air. Glad I dont have to deal with that mess :D
Where do you go to get started designing this? Hydrostatic bearing textbooks? I'm designing a mini cylindrical grinder and would like to use hydrostatic ways. Love your channel.
Very impressed! I'm sure you get a lot of questions and it's impossible to answer these satisfyingly... So my question would be, do you have any book/website/pdf reading tips for the general concepts? The earlier internet has had tons of educational stuff but that seems to have changed into videos mainly for effects and entertainment...
question for you - why are all the tubes these massive lengths of tubing connected to an overhead distributor, instead of one or two loops around the whole device using T-fittings to supply pressurized fluid to each individual port?
Nifty as all F ! But what is it all ultimately for ? ... like ultra precision(JWST class) lense manufacturing or something ... Anyone ? A gem of a find though, Instant sub !
Thanks, optics is sort of my main interest area with this, yes. direct cutting telescope mirrors would be super neat and ill be trying this. all sorts of applications for it though
That looks awesome! Is there a specific reason you don’t combine the oil tubes of the carriage right away to one so just one tube goes to the pump instead of 12? Looking forward to see it going together!
same question. I feel like having one feed line and a plenum/manifold close to or preferably mounted to the table would give you not just easier management, but also less influence from stiffness in the lines. Springs in parallel are stiffer than springs in series after all. They don't appear to be separately regulated so I don't see the utility of making them parallel.
Might work better with thicker oil. I got a 40 year old worn out tractor. I has a hydro static transmission. I cant use regular thin hydraulic oil because the pistons in the axial piston pump are worn out. So i switched over to 10W30 engine oil and now the hydraulics work great.
@@cylosgarage ok. one day i wanna make a video of the invention i been working on. its a mechanical device for encoding the rotations of threaded rod for a gantry mill. Would be perfect for machines that use ball screw actuators.
@4:35 Don't worry, you could just build a room/building HVAC system to maintain 0.1F and a separate machine enclosure HVAC system to maintain an ambient temp within 0.02F. Probably helps with the barometric pressure too! ;) What wheel did you use to grind the stainless plates btw?
Air bearings are much cleaner. They arent that expensive to buy from newway air bearing. Its also not that difficult to machine from porous graphite edm electrodes.
Amazing. This is exactly what I'm going back to school to learn to build. Hydrostatics are the best of both stiffness and resolution. How did you learn all this? And how do you have access to all this equipment?
I work in a machine shop here at school which allows me to machine all this stuff. In regards to precision engineering and machining, I am entirely self taught.
@@cylosgarage Would you be willing to do a video on what specific UA-cam channels and books that you found the most helpful? I've heard you mention ROBRENZ and a few others, but it'd be awesome to have all the info in one place.
Thanks, having two different slides for X and Z means you're not stacking up errors on top of each other allowing compounding of tilt error motion, etc. It also makes life a little easier for the servo control.
it is great thanks. two questions. is it rust on the air spindel? you will turn diamond. will the fume of the diamond grinding make issuse on the machine?
They are, in some senses, easier to design and make. They offer higher stiffness and better dynamics (lots of damping) too. You get all these things for the price of an absolute mess :)
@@weatheranddarkness air bearings are designed to preload them against the bearing surface and have a flexure strut that allows for flatness and parallelism against the bearing surface (typically granite or ceramic)
I guess those rails and bearings are in micron precision range.. where do you get such high precision machining? I own a air bearing cnc I bought for very cheap from failed pcb manifacturer company and Im finishing electronics these days because ti was using old analog complicated electronics.. Im gonna use it for wood and plastics engraving but since it should be high precision am wondering what else I should probably use it for..
We should in theory. I’ll try to measure it when I can. PI did a nice little investigation into it on one of their spindles: drive.google.com/file/d/1KDcTqtPRKPudm1EFrgzGlnRpnx_PLJVM/view?usp=drivesdk Our pump runs at a fairly high speed, so hopefully any pressure ripple effects will be of a very high frequency that will be damp-able via squeeze film effects or tubing compliance. We’ll see
If you have access to that same surface grinder that made the ways, you can make 3 just a bit larger plates, lap them to whatever level of measurable perfection you want and then use them to lap in this ways configuration... It can allow you to bring the thing down to sub micron levels and to achieve instruments grade, optical flat levels of surface finish... I can clearly see that that grinder did a marvelous job, but i would bet my left ass cheek that an optical flat glass would have a complaint or two, just like the electronic scale would or even an electric spherometer or similar metrology devices... A surface grinder, however marvelous it is, is prone to having its own specific surface finish and deviations... You can look up robin renzetti`s videos on the topic, but yeah, nature of materials being what it is, the most rigid of surface grinders is still susceptible to laws of elasticity and similar principles of material physics... Making flat lapping plates after that level of surface grinding is merely a matter of dedication and time, and some ultra fine sub micron grit... Like 0.25 micron particles and such... It will take time, but you will get 3 maddeningly precise plates, one of which you can use as a surface plate if you dont use diamond or similar charging grit to polish them... I know that diamond is the best for material removal, and that it automatically makes a lapping plate by getting charged into the surface, but if you want flat plates to decide what to do with after making them, then diamond is not the acceptable option of abrasives... But just think of the insane grade of a precision inspection plate you could get from that... You could even use marble or granite for those plates, a surface grinder wont notice the difference while grinding, and unlike mild steel, stone is comparable in cost, but ridiculously more stable and harder, which at the same time allows you to use diamond grit, as its wont really embed into stone, stone doesnt deform that much around forced particles, its more like glass, its either shears off or breaks off, it doesnt plastically deform around a chunk... Which will force you to use the plates as wet lapping plates, but on the plus note, it grants you a surface plate with less effort in selecting of grit type... Otherwise, im enamored with this... Its not new concept to me, but seeing a nice piece like this is quite like watching porn is to normal people in my case... Also, while im here, rewatching this, i would advise you to check out the merilo grade steel for future use in projects like this... It is known as Sihard 2842 steel... It is not stainless per se, but it is more resistant than mild steel, and it is both hardenable, stable as fuck, it can be hardened and ground or hard-machined and it doesnt shift after the fact due to its stress nature... Its just amazing... I bought 450 kilos of it at the scrapyard after some grandpa engraver died and his shop was tossed out by the family(khm, scum, khm), well, i paid the deposit, and came a week later, only to find out that some piece of work snagged 180kg of it from that pile... In short, the guy who makes gears got a tip from one of his employees that the merilo steel was to be found there, he came, and picked the best stock, got it to the scale and paid for it, as the guys cant spot eye by steel, as you know... I came, saw that like half of it was missing and the best stock, whats worst of all, and was of course pissed as fuck... took what was left, 270kg to be precise, and some days later, i went to the gear making guy, totally oblivious of the fact that he is the one responsible for taking from the pile that had ``paid for`` sign on it... needed some gears made, had a chat, as he is a tinkerer like me, a free machinist spirit, and through 20 minutes of shop tour and talk, learned that he is the one who snagged my fucking merilo! He praised the stuff like it was pure gold, and of course, i didnt press the issue too hard over the fact that it was fucking paid for steel that he took, but anyway, you get a free advice regarding the ways finishing and a small anecdote along a tip for material selection... From what i understand, merilo steel is mostly used in die and punch making and gear forming, as it offers ridiculous material stability, extremely gentle thermal growth properties and so on... I get that you dont need a toolsteel for hydro bearings due to no wear, but your other issues might benefit from merilo steel... especially in the machining department, as a toolsteel that helps you make precise parts is always a great choice, even if you dont need it to be toolsteel... All the best! Steuss
All those plastic pipes could be replaced with very thin copper pipes which meet in a manifold on each face.. Glass inspection window on each manifold at the highest point to for Observation of air bubbles. Pipes could have s Ben's in them to Eliminate expansion having an effect on the fixture.. A much neater and easier to manage Hydraulic distribution system
He clearly said that the main ways are mild steel and the carriage is inox... The hardness should not matter, just like in an air bearing, as the two surfaces in theory, if the system is operational to its full extent, should never touch, and so, they can not wear... The surfaces have a film of oil that clings to them, and the middle of the oil film thickness is where the ``oil shear`` happens to allow for sliding motion... As said, just as with air bearings, that keeps the two surfaces entirely apart, and where there is no contact, there is no wear, so hardness is merely an afterthought depending on the chips and such that the machine will be producing, as you dont want hard, hot chips at speed being launched at the mild steel ways and scratching them in turn, thus worsening the fluid bearing quality... This, essentially, as long as the oil is clean and at optimal pressure, and the machine is within its operational parameters(no over loads of any kind), should never wear... You could technically have this carriage sliding side to side for a million years and the material would not wear a single 1/1000th of a single micron... Your bearing and wearing surface is the oil film itself, which shears in the middle of its thickness and thus ensures that there is absolutely 0 wear... As said, if you are going to be using such a system as a grinding axis, and have grit particles hurtling at the surfaces at crazy high speeds, sure, you might want to have ridiculously hard surfaces to prevent that kind of wear... You also might want to enclose the whole system in as close to a hermetic shroud as possible, as that prevents any possibility of nonsense, but that is much harder to do than say... This was said to be a diamond lathe, so its a single point cutting lathe, which while diamond does shed some particles, should behave relatively nicely in the mess department... A simple enclosure for the ways should be sufficient to keep any particles away from landing on the ways, or high-speed impacting them as a fresh chip launched by the spindle... Kind regards!
@@camillosteuss You know they should make Youread next time .Im not sure why im more willing to read the comment rather then listening to the video with all ears.Guess it is an age thing.
@@woozhi9218 What do you mean? I may have overdone it with the comment length, but its my disease, i guess... I merely said in too many words why you dont really care about hardness for system performance, and why the same property might be very valuable... All the best!
I absolutely love that weird hobbyist equipment is finding a """"""proper"""""" use.
Always amazing to see professional equipment making it into hobbyist circles and vice versa.
Can you please organize your videos into playlists by projects? It's otherwise hard to find where exactly this project started and how long it went for.
We viewers can also create helpful playlists.
Very nice progress! Always cool to see some well thought out designs without a ton of overengineering. I'd be interested to see how you computed the pad geometry.
Just wanted to say thankyou for sharing your progress on this project, truly inspiring!
Thank you man it's my pleasure to share it
Very inspiring! Amazing work. I was getting into a direct laser lithography to produce photo masks for planetarium projector star plates. I wanted to use a high NA microscope lens and just pull the focus in and out to adjust the star diameter to expose the photo resist, while an XY table moved the plate to the proper coordinate for the star position. I was working with a precision stepper stage with a 1mm pitch lead screw. Still couldn't get reliable focus variation. So I was led into exploring a similar air bearing set up for Z with high resolution feedback. That quickly got way out of my technical capabilities and financial reach, so I am just going to pay a photomask company to make them on polyester film. Much cheaper, but not as much fun!
Switch the large tubing to small 4mm tubing and mount the distributor to the carriage to minimize parasitic forces from the dragged tubing :)
This is such a cool project, thanks a lot for sharing your journey! I would love to attempt this one day!
Unique channel ! Brilliant work ! 👍
Thank you man
2:15 - Please make a video about the math and design for the hydrostatic bearings. Thanks.
I see a lot of similar things to my CMM rebuild FDM printer here. Except for youre using oil instead of air. Glad I dont have to deal with that mess :D
Yes its a necessary evil. Or I guess a self inflicted evil. Loved that cmm printer project
Where do you go to get started designing this? Hydrostatic bearing textbooks? I'm designing a mini cylindrical grinder and would like to use hydrostatic ways. Love your channel.
Literally hydrostatic bearing textbooks 😂. Look at the one by Rowe, it’s a must. Thanks!
Great video, thanks! Looking forward to the next one.
Very impressed!
I'm sure you get a lot of questions and it's impossible to answer these satisfyingly...
So my question would be, do you have any book/website/pdf reading tips for the general concepts? The earlier internet has had tons of educational stuff but that seems to have changed into videos mainly for effects and entertainment...
question for you - why are all the tubes these massive lengths of tubing connected to an overhead distributor, instead of one or two loops around the whole device using T-fittings to supply pressurized fluid to each individual port?
Taking a guess that it's because if you make a loop the pressure won't be the exact same from the first port to the last/middle
Very interesting to your technology and want your further news about this product
Nifty as all F ! But what is it all ultimately for ? ... like ultra precision(JWST class) lense manufacturing or something ... Anyone ? A gem of a find though, Instant sub !
Thanks, optics is sort of my main interest area with this, yes. direct cutting telescope mirrors would be super neat and ill be trying this. all sorts of applications for it though
@@cylosgarage Way cool ! 👍
That looks awesome!
Is there a specific reason you don’t combine the oil tubes of the carriage right away to one so just one tube goes to the pump instead of 12?
Looking forward to see it going together!
same question. I feel like having one feed line and a plenum/manifold close to or preferably mounted to the table would give you not just easier management, but also less influence from stiffness in the lines. Springs in parallel are stiffer than springs in series after all. They don't appear to be separately regulated so I don't see the utility of making them parallel.
"No drag chains". Absolute savage
😁😁 i was waiting for one of y’all to catch it
Should of used some moglice. That’s we use on our hydrostatic guides for gear shapers.
That works on hydrostatics too?
Might work better with thicker oil. I got a 40 year old worn out tractor. I has a hydro static transmission. I cant use regular thin hydraulic oil because the pistons in the axial piston pump are worn out. So i switched over to 10W30 engine oil and now the hydraulics work great.
@@------country-boy------- this bearing system was designed to use this particular oil. The viscosity is a big part of the engineering calculations
@@cylosgarage ok. one day i wanna make a video of the invention i been working on. its a mechanical device for encoding the rotations of threaded rod for a gantry mill. Would be perfect for machines that use ball screw actuators.
Freakin' awesome.
@4:35 Don't worry, you could just build a room/building HVAC system to maintain 0.1F and a separate machine enclosure HVAC system to maintain an ambient temp within 0.02F. Probably helps with the barometric pressure too! ;)
What wheel did you use to grind the stainless plates btw?
I saw one with an air bearing
Air bearings are much cleaner. They arent that expensive to buy from newway air bearing. Its also not that difficult to machine from porous graphite edm electrodes.
A single feedline and manifold mounted on the carriage might limit the drag and tubing mess.
Great job, very nice. What type of restrictor did you use? what is the nominal bearing gap?
Orifice, 1 thou gap. Thanks for the inspiration
Amazing. This is exactly what I'm going back to school to learn to build. Hydrostatics are the best of both stiffness and resolution.
How did you learn all this? And how do you have access to all this equipment?
I work in a machine shop here at school which allows me to machine all this stuff. In regards to precision engineering and machining, I am entirely self taught.
@@cylosgarage What resources did you use to teach yourself? Your school has an amazing shop. Wish mine did. Mind if I ask what school it is?
@@JonScottSmith yea I go to auburn. A great many UA-cam videos and books. I would suggest looking through the reading list listed on ASPEs website
@@cylosgarage Would you be willing to do a video on what specific UA-cam channels and books that you found the most helpful? I've heard you mention ROBRENZ and a few others, but it'd be awesome to have all the info in one place.
@@JonScottSmith That's a good idea I'll do that at some point
Really nice Work. But why did you go with 2 different systems for X and Z Axis?
Thanks, having two different slides for X and Z means you're not stacking up errors on top of each other allowing compounding of tilt error motion, etc. It also makes life a little easier for the servo control.
@@cylosgarage Ah yes this makes sense Thanks
Awesome video! How did you manage to mill the granite on the haas? And with such accuracy?
some sneaky antics ill get into in another video. no brain surgery though
@@cylosgarage Awesome! Looking forward to it!
it is great thanks. two questions. is it rust on the air spindel? you will turn diamond. will the fume of the diamond grinding make issuse on the machine?
Awesome!
I'm curious, why'd go for hydrostatic and not air bearings?
They are, in some senses, easier to design and make. They offer higher stiffness and better dynamics (lots of damping) too. You get all these things for the price of an absolute mess :)
@@cylosgarage but at least you don't have to have even tighter tolerances, and you don't have to scrub your air supply of moisture!
@@weatheranddarkness air bearings are designed to preload them against the bearing surface and have a flexure strut that allows for flatness and parallelism against the bearing surface (typically granite or ceramic)
I guess those rails and bearings are in micron precision range.. where do you get such high precision machining?
I own a air bearing cnc I bought for very cheap from failed pcb manifacturer company and Im finishing electronics these days because ti was using old analog complicated electronics..
Im gonna use it for wood and plastics engraving but since it should be high precision am wondering what else I should probably use it for..
I wonder if you'll see pressure variations from the pump in the sensor data
We should in theory. I’ll try to measure it when I can. PI did a nice little investigation into it on one of their spindles: drive.google.com/file/d/1KDcTqtPRKPudm1EFrgzGlnRpnx_PLJVM/view?usp=drivesdk
Our pump runs at a fairly high speed, so hopefully any pressure ripple effects will be of a very high frequency that will be damp-able via squeeze film effects or tubing compliance. We’ll see
Can you send a links to the pump ? I could use something like this for another project ?
If you have access to that same surface grinder that made the ways, you can make 3 just a bit larger plates, lap them to whatever level of measurable perfection you want and then use them to lap in this ways configuration... It can allow you to bring the thing down to sub micron levels and to achieve instruments grade, optical flat levels of surface finish... I can clearly see that that grinder did a marvelous job, but i would bet my left ass cheek that an optical flat glass would have a complaint or two, just like the electronic scale would or even an electric spherometer or similar metrology devices... A surface grinder, however marvelous it is, is prone to having its own specific surface finish and deviations... You can look up robin renzetti`s videos on the topic, but yeah, nature of materials being what it is, the most rigid of surface grinders is still susceptible to laws of elasticity and similar principles of material physics...
Making flat lapping plates after that level of surface grinding is merely a matter of dedication and time, and some ultra fine sub micron grit... Like 0.25 micron particles and such... It will take time, but you will get 3 maddeningly precise plates, one of which you can use as a surface plate if you dont use diamond or similar charging grit to polish them... I know that diamond is the best for material removal, and that it automatically makes a lapping plate by getting charged into the surface, but if you want flat plates to decide what to do with after making them, then diamond is not the acceptable option of abrasives... But just think of the insane grade of a precision inspection plate you could get from that... You could even use marble or granite for those plates, a surface grinder wont notice the difference while grinding, and unlike mild steel, stone is comparable in cost, but ridiculously more stable and harder, which at the same time allows you to use diamond grit, as its wont really embed into stone, stone doesnt deform that much around forced particles, its more like glass, its either shears off or breaks off, it doesnt plastically deform around a chunk... Which will force you to use the plates as wet lapping plates, but on the plus note, it grants you a surface plate with less effort in selecting of grit type...
Otherwise, im enamored with this... Its not new concept to me, but seeing a nice piece like this is quite like watching porn is to normal people in my case...
Also, while im here, rewatching this, i would advise you to check out the merilo grade steel for future use in projects like this... It is known as Sihard 2842 steel... It is not stainless per se, but it is more resistant than mild steel, and it is both hardenable, stable as fuck, it can be hardened and ground or hard-machined and it doesnt shift after the fact due to its stress nature... Its just amazing... I bought 450 kilos of it at the scrapyard after some grandpa engraver died and his shop was tossed out by the family(khm, scum, khm), well, i paid the deposit, and came a week later, only to find out that some piece of work snagged 180kg of it from that pile... In short, the guy who makes gears got a tip from one of his employees that the merilo steel was to be found there, he came, and picked the best stock, got it to the scale and paid for it, as the guys cant spot eye by steel, as you know... I came, saw that like half of it was missing and the best stock, whats worst of all, and was of course pissed as fuck... took what was left, 270kg to be precise, and some days later, i went to the gear making guy, totally oblivious of the fact that he is the one responsible for taking from the pile that had ``paid for`` sign on it... needed some gears made, had a chat, as he is a tinkerer like me, a free machinist spirit, and through 20 minutes of shop tour and talk, learned that he is the one who snagged my fucking merilo! He praised the stuff like it was pure gold, and of course, i didnt press the issue too hard over the fact that it was fucking paid for steel that he took, but anyway, you get a free advice regarding the ways finishing and a small anecdote along a tip for material selection... From what i understand, merilo steel is mostly used in die and punch making and gear forming, as it offers ridiculous material stability, extremely gentle thermal growth properties and so on... I get that you dont need a toolsteel for hydro bearings due to no wear, but your other issues might benefit from merilo steel... especially in the machining department, as a toolsteel that helps you make precise parts is always a great choice, even if you dont need it to be toolsteel...
All the best!
Steuss
All those plastic pipes could be replaced with very thin copper pipes which meet in a manifold on each face.. Glass inspection window on each manifold at the highest point to for Observation of air bubbles. Pipes could have s Ben's in them to Eliminate expansion having an effect on the fixture.. A much neater and easier to manage Hydraulic distribution system
Does the plastic tubing act as a spring /accumulator for the oil, because it is less stiff than the oil?
This is possible in theory, although the tubing it fairly stiff so I'm not sure how much of an effect this is having
@@cylosgarage Since the compliance is upstream of the restrictors, it should have no effect.
Do you have a plan to keep the ways clean when the machine is cutting?
There will be extensive guarding over it all
Ah, found the pump.
Link?
why did you go with 304 instead of 316 ?
Get a gun drill and add cooling lines.
What can be used instead of stainless??
Whatever you want
What steel are you using does hardness matter?
He clearly said that the main ways are mild steel and the carriage is inox...
The hardness should not matter, just like in an air bearing, as the two surfaces in theory, if the system is operational to its full extent, should never touch, and so, they can not wear... The surfaces have a film of oil that clings to them, and the middle of the oil film thickness is where the ``oil shear`` happens to allow for sliding motion... As said, just as with air bearings, that keeps the two surfaces entirely apart, and where there is no contact, there is no wear, so hardness is merely an afterthought depending on the chips and such that the machine will be producing, as you dont want hard, hot chips at speed being launched at the mild steel ways and scratching them in turn, thus worsening the fluid bearing quality...
This, essentially, as long as the oil is clean and at optimal pressure, and the machine is within its operational parameters(no over loads of any kind), should never wear... You could technically have this carriage sliding side to side for a million years and the material would not wear a single 1/1000th of a single micron... Your bearing and wearing surface is the oil film itself, which shears in the middle of its thickness and thus ensures that there is absolutely 0 wear...
As said, if you are going to be using such a system as a grinding axis, and have grit particles hurtling at the surfaces at crazy high speeds, sure, you might want to have ridiculously hard surfaces to prevent that kind of wear... You also might want to enclose the whole system in as close to a hermetic shroud as possible, as that prevents any possibility of nonsense, but that is much harder to do than say...
This was said to be a diamond lathe, so its a single point cutting lathe, which while diamond does shed some particles, should behave relatively nicely in the mess department... A simple enclosure for the ways should be sufficient to keep any particles away from landing on the ways, or high-speed impacting them as a fresh chip launched by the spindle...
Kind regards!
@@camillosteuss You know they should make Youread next time .Im not sure why im more willing to read the comment rather then listening to the video with all ears.Guess it is an age thing.
@@woozhi9218
What do you mean? I may have overdone it with the comment length, but its my disease, i guess... I merely said in too many words why you dont really care about hardness for system performance, and why the same property might be very valuable...
All the best!
@@camillosteuss i was just joking .But seriously i think reading your comment was much easier and quicker.(Gonna start Youread after this)
wtf is that thing
@@chunkyfen homemade hydrostatic bearings for diamond turning lathe
15:23 You said 8, because it's 8 o'clock.
You should plan these videos better. They are borderline unwatchable.
No 🥰💙