I can create an alternative timeline where Germany wins the Battle of Stalingrad and explore the subsequent events in detail. Let's delve into this alternate history: Timeline: Germany Wins the Battle of Stalingrad 1942 August 23 - February 2: The Battle of Stalingrad begins as German forces, under Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus, launch a massive assault on the city. Despite fierce Soviet resistance, the Germans make significant progress. November 19: German forces under General Erich von Manstein break through Soviet defenses to encircle Stalingrad, effectively trapping Soviet forces inside the city. December 12: The Red Army's 62nd Army, commanded by General Vasily Chuikov, begins its last stand in the city center, resisting the German onslaught. 1943 January 10: Despite the bitter cold and dwindling supplies, German forces manage to capture key strategic points within Stalingrad, including the Mamayev Kurgan hill. January 31: Soviet attempts to break the encirclement fail as German air superiority and effective use of armored divisions thwart their efforts. February 2: The remaining Soviet forces in Stalingrad, including General Chuikov, surrender to the Germans. The Battle of Stalingrad ends in a decisive German victory. February 6: Adolf Hitler declares victory in Stalingrad, hailing it as a turning point in the war against the Soviet Union. March 12: With the fall of Stalingrad, German forces begin to consolidate their gains in the region, pushing deeper into the Caucasus and securing vital oil fields. April 5: The Axis powers, emboldened by their success in the East, launch Operation Citadel, a massive offensive aimed at eliminating the Soviet bulge at Kursk. July 4: Operation Citadel concludes with a decisive German victory. The Red Army suffers heavy casualties, and the German advance continues. 1944 January 20: Soviet attempts to halt the German advance with a winter offensive fail to regain significant territory. German defenses hold firm along the Eastern Front. June 6: Allied forces land in Normandy as part of Operation Overlord. With the Eastern Front stabilized, Germany can divert more resources to the Western Front, intensifying the conflict. July 20: A failed assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler by German officers results in a crackdown on internal dissent within Germany. 1945 March 27: Soviet forces launch a massive offensive along the Eastern Front, aiming to push the Germans back and liberate territories lost earlier in the war. April 30: Berlin falls to advancing Soviet troops after a prolonged and bloody battle. Adolf Hitler commits suicide in his bunker rather than face capture. May 7: With the fall of Berlin, Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies, marking the end of World War II in Europe. Aftermath: Post-war division: Germany is divided into occupation zones by the victorious Allied powers. The Eastern part of the country falls under Soviet influence, while the Western part is occupied by British, American, and French forces. Cold War tensions: The Soviet Union emerges from the war as a superpower, controlling vast territories in Eastern Europe. Tensions between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union escalate, leading to the onset of the Cold War. Legacy of Stalingrad: The Battle of Stalingrad remains a symbol of German military prowess and Soviet resilience. It shapes post-war perceptions of the conflict and influences geopolitical dynamics for decades to come. let's explore the border changes and the division between communist and democratic countries in this alternate Cold War scenario where Germany won the Battle of Stalingrad: Eastern Europe: Soviet Influence: With Germany's victory in Stalingrad and subsequent advances on the Eastern Front, the Soviet Union gains even more territory in Eastern Europe. Countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria fall under Soviet influence and become communist states aligned with Moscow. Yugoslavia: Yugoslavia, under the leadership of Josip Broz Tito, maintains its independence from Soviet control and adopts a unique form of socialism, distinct from the Soviet model. It becomes a non-aligned nation, forging its path in the Cold War. Western Europe: Germany: The Western part of Germany, including West Berlin, becomes a democratic state under the influence of the Western Allies. It receives significant aid through the Marshall Plan to rebuild its economy and infrastructure. France, UK, and Benelux: These countries remain democratic and are closely aligned with the United States as part of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), forming a bulwark against Soviet expansionism. Italy: Italy remains democratic, with the support of the United States and other Western Allies. However, the influence of the Italian Communist Party remains significant, leading to political tensions within the country. Asia: China: The Chinese Civil War concludes with a victory for the Communist forces under Mao Zedong. With Soviet support, Communist China establishes itself as a major power in Asia, exerting influence over neighboring countries like North Korea and North Vietnam. Korea and Vietnam: Korea remains divided along the 38th parallel, with the communist regime in the North supported by the Soviet Union and China, while the democratic regime in the South is backed by the United States and its allies. Similarly, Vietnam remains divided between the communist North and the democratic South, leading to the Vietnam War. Middle East: Iran: Iran leans towards the West, particularly the United States, as a strategic ally in the region. However, Soviet influence extends into neighboring countries like Afghanistan, leading to geopolitical tensions and proxy conflicts. Africa: North Africa: Countries like Egypt and Libya maintain a delicate balance between East and West, playing both sides to secure aid and support for their development. Sub-Saharan Africa: The struggle for independence from colonial powers intensifies, with both communist and democratic factions vying for influence in newly formed nations. Superpower rivalry exacerbates existing conflicts, leading to instability in the region.
Certainly, even if Germany had won the Battle of Stalingrad, there were several underlying factors and strategic mistakes that would likely have led to their eventual defeat in World War II. Here are ten reasons why Germany would still have lost the war: Overextended Supply Lines: Despite capturing Stalingrad, Germany's supply lines remained stretched thin across the vast Eastern Front. Maintaining the occupation of Stalingrad and continuing the advance into the Soviet Union would have strained German resources and logistics to unsustainable levels. Soviet Industrial Capacity: The Soviet Union's vast industrial capacity, combined with its ability to relocate factories beyond the reach of German bombers, allowed it to continually replenish its armies with equipment and manpower, gradually wearing down the German war machine. Allied Material Support: The United States and the United Kingdom provided substantial material support to the Soviet Union through programs like Lend-Lease, supplying essential equipment, vehicles, and food, which bolstered Soviet capabilities on the Eastern Front. Soviet Winter Offensives: Even if Germany had captured Stalingrad, the harsh Russian winter and the Soviet Union's ability to mount counter-offensives during this period would have posed significant challenges to German forces, as experienced in previous winters during the war. Strategic Mistakes: Hitler's strategic errors, including diverting resources away from critical objectives for ideological reasons (e.g., the invasion of the Soviet Union rather than focusing on securing resources in North Africa), hampered Germany's ability to sustain its war effort in the long term. Battle of Kursk: The Battle of Kursk, which occurred after the Battle of Stalingrad in the historical timeline, would still have taken place. The Soviet victory at Kursk marked a turning point on the Eastern Front, demonstrating the limitations of German offensive capabilities and the increasing strength of Soviet defenses. Strategic Bombing Campaign: The Allied strategic bombing campaign against German cities and industrial targets would have continued to escalate, inflicting heavy damage on Germany's infrastructure, production capabilities, and morale. Internal Dissent: As the war dragged on and casualties mounted, internal dissent within Germany would have increased, exacerbated by Hitler's increasingly erratic leadership and the failures of his military strategies. This could have led to further instability and potentially even internal revolt. Allied Invasion of Western Europe: The Allies' successful invasion of Normandy (D-Day) in June 1944 would have placed additional pressure on German forces, forcing them to fight a two-front war and diverting resources from the Eastern Front. Superior Allied Coalition: Ultimately, Germany faced a coalition of powerful adversaries, including the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and other Allied nations. The combined industrial, military, and manpower resources of these countries far exceeded those of Germany, ensuring that, even if Germany had won at Stalingrad, it would have been unable to prevail in the long run against such overwhelming odds.
It's easy solution - they'd lose a city with their leader's name. Germans already suffered heavy casualities during the battle. They even took the city, but the units got encircled and destroyed. Soviets had more manpower to waste, more land-lease from countries etc. This is, what scorched earth policy is - retreating and retreating, fight a major battle on the supply hub and even if you lose, you'll inflict heavy casualities, since the opposite party is overextended by now
Once again, the Oder-Neisse Line happens to Germany, a territorial border shift which was proposed and pushed for by Stalin, which the western allies refused to support or acknowledge till it was already done. Germany still recieves this disastrous outcome in territorial border cut-offs, even tho it borders a free and western-aligned Polish state in LoreDads outcome. Not really a fan.
While I certainly see the Allied leadership open to the possibility of appeasing the Poles, I have doubts about all the ethnic cleansing that took place under Soviet rule taking place under Allied occupation, perhaps arming the Poles to do so? Perhaps the Poles will keep all of Prussia Instead of sharing it with the Soviets, but get none of Pomerania, homever, I doubt that Silesia will be kept in any way, and obviously the German minority in Bohemia will certainly be expelled. The Allied occupation of Germany was by no means lenient, better than the savage Soviet occupation, but the Allies deliberately starved the Germana as a form of revenge, not to mention indiscriminately bombing civilians.
All of these scenarios have one thing in common to say: "Germany captures the Baku oil fields but their supply lines are bad and the soviets push them back to Rostov and Germany loses."
@@rewriting-historynot a single one of them mentioned the massive famine that would outbreak in the ussr if the Germans had continued to hold this vital agricultural land of the ussr into 1943
@@cringewatcher4229except that the american government wouldve supplied them with lend lease so they wouldn’t suffer a famine. also germans were also suffering too, look at allied bombing campaigns
I wonder how Germany would get tungsten and what Portugal would do, although with spain in the allies I don't see any reason for Portugal to stay neutral
@@Vaushgg most of these scenarios tweak with history, so they change what happend previously that led to that scenario, so if spain joined the allies the fascist would have to lose the civil war, i think you get what i’m saying
@@VaushggFaciscts work toward their interests in the short term. The faciscts in central America were among the first to declare war on Japan after they attacked the US. I think it would be possible that the US and Britain could say offer a ton of aid to rebuild Spain after the 3 year Civil War and get them on side.
I personally really doubt that the Oder-Neisse line would be the borders for Germany in every scenario. Especially in these where Ukraine and Belarus would be independent. There would be no reason to deport that many ethnical Germans from these lands if the Sovjet Union didn't even advance into these territories, therefore the German inhabitatants wouldn't flee to the east like they did in our timeline.
Something worth mentioning: There is absolutely no reason to attach Crimea to any sort of Ukraine in any of these scenarios. Crimea was part of the Russian SFSR until 1954
7 months ago I give you some ideas like what if India got its independence in 1914 or 1918 your decision united and what if Qing dynasty survived ww2 and what if Japanese Empire never join axis and what if Saxon combined with Prussia after 30 years war and also got Sweden Empire land in Germany after the great winter war of 1700
I hope so too! I want to appreciate the support you've shown me by purchasing UA-cam membership and the E-book, you're awesome! If you find any mistakes in the E-book, you can let me know on discord and I will fix them all! Have fun watching this video!
To what extent does "colonize" mean? I don't think it would be possible for Europe to not take lands like south Africa or ports in the west. Although, avoiding full colonization would be a cool scenario
To what extent colonialism is European or true colonialism in that way count every single large Empire in Europe and every single large empire in middle East
I don't know if Poland would keep his current shape Poland annexing prussia only happening because of the Soviet seizure of the East Poland on a weaker Soviet would mean less likely they would seizure ( I'm obviously not talking about East prussia)
This video massively overestimates Germany’s ability to keep fighting the war. The loss of Stalingrad wouldn’t cripple the Soviets, and they would launch counter offensives. I’d say they’d be at most delayed by a year or two.
@@rewriting-history its not bad in Poland its a funny number its the hour the pope died and we just make memes about it yiu should chęci them out some of theam are very funny also wouldnt the soviet Union collapse after losing stalingrad and possibly leningrad or atleast cause some small rebelions in the red army likenin ww1 ?
Historical Mapping UA-cams Council, Have decided a form of Alternate Universe. perfectly beautifull concept with deep writing and detail. realistic and no absurdity. little biased to country they nationalistic, they have higher expectations and write detail-er action.
Actually their was no german forces in french north africa This is why the allies landed here. They only encountered a few Vichy troops, most of which joined them.
Two things I find strange about your scenario: the U.S. helping the Soviets build the nukes, even tough they wanted to avoid them being able to access that technology as long as possible and Germany not doubling down on its nuclear program after its success in the U.S. for ideological reasons (even tough they did not have sufficient ressources)
Certainly, even if Germany had won the Battle of Stalingrad, there were several underlying factors and strategic mistakes that would likely have led to their eventual defeat in World War II. Here are ten reasons why Germany would still have lost the war: Overextended Supply Lines: Despite capturing Stalingrad, Germany's supply lines remained stretched thin across the vast Eastern Front. Maintaining the occupation of Stalingrad and continuing the advance into the Soviet Union would have strained German resources and logistics to unsustainable levels. Soviet Industrial Capacity: The Soviet Union's vast industrial capacity, combined with its ability to relocate factories beyond the reach of German bombers, allowed it to continually replenish its armies with equipment and manpower, gradually wearing down the German war machine. Allied Material Support: The United States and the United Kingdom provided substantial material support to the Soviet Union through programs like Lend-Lease, supplying essential equipment, vehicles, and food, which bolstered Soviet capabilities on the Eastern Front. Soviet Winter Offensives: Even if Germany had captured Stalingrad, the harsh Russian winter and the Soviet Union's ability to mount counter-offensives during this period would have posed significant challenges to German forces, as experienced in previous winters during the war. Strategic Mistakes: Hitler's strategic errors, including diverting resources away from critical objectives for ideological reasons (e.g., the invasion of the Soviet Union rather than focusing on securing resources in North Africa), hampered Germany's ability to sustain its war effort in the long term. Battle of Kursk: The Battle of Kursk, which occurred after the Battle of Stalingrad in the historical timeline, would still have taken place. The Soviet victory at Kursk marked a turning point on the Eastern Front, demonstrating the limitations of German offensive capabilities and the increasing strength of Soviet defenses. Strategic Bombing Campaign: The Allied strategic bombing campaign against German cities and industrial targets would have continued to escalate, inflicting heavy damage on Germany's infrastructure, production capabilities, and morale. Internal Dissent: As the war dragged on and casualties mounted, internal dissent within Germany would have increased, exacerbated by Hitler's increasingly erratic leadership and the failures of his military strategies. This could have led to further instability and potentially even internal revolt. Allied Invasion of Western Europe: The Allies' successful invasion of Normandy (D-Day) in June 1944 would have placed additional pressure on German forces, forcing them to fight a two-front war and diverting resources from the Eastern Front. Superior Allied Coalition: Ultimately, Germany faced a coalition of powerful adversaries, including the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and other Allied nations. The combined industrial, military, and manpower resources of these countries far exceeded those of Germany, ensuring that, even if Germany had won at Stalingrad, it would have been unable to prevail in the long run against such overwhelming odds.
I miss something huge in this video. All of you talked about the allies support of supply for the SU BUT know one really thought about were these support lines was. In our history the supply ONLY came over the Caucasus and then over the Wolga river. If Germany secured Stalingrad the allies supply to the SU would be dead. Since the way over Sibiria is to long, the Nordic and Baltic corridor isn’t possible as well and Central Asia Land Corridor has not enough Infrastructure. You could think about so you could think could only supply the front on the Caspian Sea but not further into the north. And no one really thought about that
If you think about it. If the germans (for some reason) left the battle of Moscow victorious, Stalingrad wouldn't have happened. Or definitely not as it happened in our timeline. It seems most people see Stalingrad more of a turning Tide. When Moscow failed, Barbarossa was a catastrophic plan, at that point not winnable anymore. That is my opinion though. Of course germany could've done a second wave, as in a second successful plan, pushing the soviets back further than before. However that probably wouldn't AT ALL connect to Stalingrad.
usually only give 1 comment to guess the results of the title, but this time ill give 2 im guessing you guys will say taking Stalingrad also means taking Baku, but it doesnt, britain would push through the soviet occupation zone in Iran and then simply occupy Baku themselves, the British would even have a faster route through Iran because of terrain
Depends how decisive is the victory If germany take the city in low months and encircle caucasus,they would heavily weaken the soviets and possibily more resource and manpower to stop D day,dragoon and sicily landing
The thing that I always wonder is if america really would nuke Germany at all, since it’s in the middle of Europe and a lot of Americans have German descent I can’t fully imagine that they would decimate their “family” like that, it was different with japan because they didn’t really have any ties with them
The war would never go past 1947. The manpower shortages are a serious issue because not enough people would be farming. Resulting in a massive famine in the Soviet Union and looming famine within the axis. The longer the Germans hold against the Soviets the worse it is for them as well because of the German collaboration governments. This gives Germany enough time in Ukraine to make a study supply of grain while also recruiting more Russian/ukrainian volunteers. Likewise cutting off the oil to the Soviets is a huge development. Need oil for trucks, planes, tanks. Without it their units are virtually isolated unless they have enough horses and carriages. Which isn’t possible. However I do believe the allies would not continue onto peace and the war would drag on perpetually within the air. The Soviets would capitulate unofficially as they descend further into anarchy by the shear amount of famine. Another important notice is that the allies bombed former allies such as france. The longer they continue this the more French volunteers the Germans can pull out of them. If everyone is scared of famine within the European continent then they would more likely ally themselves with Germany just to live. The punitive actions that people blame Germany for is exaggerated and is not enough to cause any sort of revolution. The Russians would resist longer but only as so long as they have food on their plates. The shear amount of famine in Europe would destroy all of Germany’s enemies which would only worsen the allied front. Likewise the allies were not enthusiastic about the war to begin with a favored peace. Only by special interest groups and politicians did the war in Europe actually conclude. In this alternate reality Germany would still have the resources to switch gears and hold a decent air defense, especially after the jet engine model allowing them to respond quicker and do hit and run tactics. The war would be far more deadly and more akin to China or the Spanish civil war where most of everybody would die from famine. It would be the deadliest war of attrition in history. It ultimately comes down to how much the American government can force their population to continue the war effort. If the Americans were somehow convinced for total war they would win but would suffer more casualties than ww1. Britian’s empire would collapse on itself, most likely resulting in India’s famine, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand leaving the war or refusing any nominal war support. The situation in Europe would only favor the axis if the war prolonged. Governments would slowly start aligning with German politics and collaboration regimes mostly because of the war but again also because of Germany’s economic leadership. 1/3 of the European continent will die in this scenario if not more.
@@rewriting-history I actually love the alternate fascist defeat scenarios. Like what if France stopped Germany in 1940 is my personal favorite because I think it is the most realistic. Keep up the great work.👍👍👌👌
I'd say all of these are a far worse alternate world than the one we've got, especially yours mr.rewriting history. I love Porphyrios' scenario so much though, parodying Axis retreat to Americas by having them seek refuge to the moon is hilarious. *20:43* Also _YEAH,_ obviously somebody with a ukraine flag as their pfp would be making such claims, why am I surprised. I think that's really wrong, because at that point the fate of the war would still not be as determined and Ukraine and Batics are thousands of kilometres away from Westerners' active front... Also even if that was the case, why is Crimea included in that map for Ukraine? It was only transfered to them in 1954!..
your own scenario was the most realistic and it was the only one that briefly mentioned casualties at the end of the war in our time the casualties were so high and the germans were killing so many people if the war took longer the germans for getting more troops would want to take them from the occupation forces i imagine after 1945 for most of the eastern europe it would be they give germans some sort of supply or they would be completely wiped out of the map the bad thing here is if they do it without leaking any news of it there will be no major revolt it would be just sad and if dragged long enough after the war many of europe ethnic groups either are completely destroyed or taker Irreversible losses we should be glad it didn’t happen
18:48 Oh, wonderful. Nice to see German forces were able to hold their colony in Togo (Africa). Maybe these were the soldiers of the Imperial German Army, who managed to withstand allied/entente pressure for 20 years :D
Right, doesn't make any sense. The soviet union would probably use nukes in a strategic way; on large german armies and on a few major german cities. Causing a few extra million deaths. Not depopulating western Russia, eastern Europe, Germany, and italy.
If the Battle of Stalingard was won for the Germans, the war would simply extend slightly longer. The German logistics were horrendous and prevented Germany getting further than they had. Battles do not decide wars, logistics and economics do
Also, no, the German army was pretty shit. There were incompetent, with okay technology, and disconnected from reality. Like, ffs, the Soviet Union beat them, The Soviet Union is almost the modern day Russian army but was bigger and more able to replace their losses, the Soviet army was shit, and the Germans still lost the war, if the Soviets were that shit, the Germans were crap
RH in your scenario i think many european state especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans would be more pro-soviet even if they aren't communists because the population wouldn't want to cooperate with America after they nuked their country into the ground. I think these states (even if a democratic regime is created) would turn to communism or an anti-western-fascism and they would be more willing to cooperate with the soviets than the allies. But even countries like Britain, or France might be less willing to cooperate with the US after seeing how they nuked Europe into the ground and how they turned Eastern Europe into a nuclear waseland. So the cold war might not even happen as anti-westernism is rising in Europe so the US would once again turn to isolationism. This would also apply to Germany, I can imagine that West Germany might vote to unite with the East as they would be radical anti-westerners so they would be a neutral state or they unite with East Germany. NATO and the EU might never form ittl.
The idea that the allies would use the nuke on germany despite having no actual foot on european ground is ludicrous. Germany had huge reserves of biochemical weapons which they never used. If the allies used a nuke, London would be turned into a toxic wasteland. The nuke was meant to be dropped on germany in 1944 or 1945 to encourage their faster surrender; if they dropped it on germany without actually having a front in europe, it would just escalate the war.
4:53 The Americans had 3 nukes by mid 1945. And due to the Soviet loss at Stalingrad, I believe the Americans and allies overall would try and make more bombs.
we wouldnt have modern day german borders after ww2, the germans would likely still have some prussian lands (silesia and such) but a divided east prussia
Germany would still be overstretched in Russia around the Volga River to maintain the border at least while pushing everything into Azerbaijan. Regardless of whether it makes any sense for them to try to cross the Volga or the Caucasus, they would try out of blind belief at that point. They’d be too close to finishing off the Soviets and so close to the oil fields to have the sense to hold. D Day I think has almost equally as good of a chance and I think the pushes into Italy and Morocco would be equally as successful as in our timeline. I also don’t think the Soviets would’ve had nukes in 1949. They’d be focusing everything at that point into holding off the Germans who wouldn’t realistically give up pushing on the river. They’d be too close to victory to stop. The Americans also still wouldn’t support the Soviet program, they were just as scared of them as they were of the Germans. The Soviets got the bomb in a relative time of peace, they don’t have that time anymore. I think they’d still get it eventually if they don’t collapse, I don’t think it’d be until the 1950s though. I’m also not so sure the Japanese fall as early. The Soviets wouldn’t get involved on that front because they can’t risk sending manpower and equipment east to open up a new front to the war when the Germans just need to make a beach head to cross the river. If they get over, that’s it for the Soviets. Their next line of defence is the Ural Mountains and at that point, they’ve lost. I do think there’s potential that the Americans would share the technology with the British to upscale production but I highly doubt it. Without a rival power having nukes incentivizing them to let the British use them too, America would likely want to keep the technology to themselves. The Japanese would still get absolutely rocked by the American navy, but with the nukes focused in Germany against a bigger threat and the Soviets not rushing into Manchuria and Korea, I think the allies might accept a Japanese surrender that sees them keeping the Kurils and half of Sakhalin just to get them out of the war. Korea would likely come entirely under American occupation and with the Soviets too busy trying to fight the Germans, the Kuomintang likely win the Chinese Civil War although I suspect there would continue to be civil unrest for some time given the tactics they used during the two conflicts. I imagine they’d have to give up all conquered territory in Southeast Asia and China as well as Manchuria and Taiwan though. Back to the western front, the western allies would definitely reach Berlin first although Germany might be in so much rubble that it wouldn’t even matter. I suspect Poland would be where the Soviets and western allies actually begin partitions. Without the Germans being half occupied, I suspect they’d likely lose a lot more than modern Germany has. Possibly even being divided into several states; Brandenburg who might still hold Pomerania but definitely not Prussia, Hanover, Bavaria, Westphalia, and Austria. It’s also possible Germany is kept more united as a strong bulwark against the Soviets if the western allies and Russia don’t immediately begin fighting each other. Fighting Germany for much longer could very easily sway America and Britain into listening to France in this timeline and separating Germany though. It’s also possible that as an alternative, Germany is kept united with two exceptions. They still lose Austria as usual but this time, they also lose all land west of the Rhine, some being ceded to France and the rest being some combination of Belgium, the Netherlands, and a Westphalian state. This would be the outcome I’d probably lean towards as it’d balance the needs for a German bulwark against the Soviet Union while also adhering to France and its security concerns. It would really depend how far into Poland the Soviets get. In this situation, I suspect the remaining German territory would still include Silesia and Pomerania, just not Prussia which would be ceded to Poland.
ripped lincon, the only reason the poleswere given silesia and pomerania was because they needed to be compensated. the poles would not loste the est of ukraine and the russians would keep russian majority areas in ukraine
People just assumed that german stalingrad = german caucasus. But how do they win stalingrad? Do they just beat operation uranus and crush stalingrad in january 1943? If so then the battle of kursk will be the battle of the caucasus, the germans won't conquer it, and are just going to be defeated more slowly.
I don't think the battle of Stalingrad would change the outcome of the war. If Germany did win at Stalingrad, they would just have lost 100's of thousands of men, occupying a city that is useless now with dwindling supply lines. The Germans would quickly be pushed back from Stalingrad. The only change would be Germany surviving a few months more, I would say they would survive to the opening months of 1945, as the Soviet pushback would be slowed down. I also think D-day would succeed, as if the Germans did capture Stalingrad, they would probably rush more men from the west to the east, to try to defeat the Soviets, which would fail, and the United States and Britain combined, much more powerful then Germany, would certainly land in mainland Europe, especially as German manpower is crippled in the Soviet Union.
If germany won stalingrad it would be severe blow for the soviets and moscow i think would fell if germany won stalingrad with few cassuilties they would defeat the ussr
I found your scenario quite scary for many reasons but it was good the Nukes were a very important and interesting part PH’s scenario I thought was intriguing because he attempted to play devils advocate veering away from his typical approach of the USSR obliterating Germany Porphyries going a more allied centered direction it seems and again a possibility of nukes being used on Germany which I think is reasonable to consider then the ending I love it lol I liked Ripped Lincoln’s very fun for MURICA HECK YEAH lol the independent Ukraine is a very unique take I didn’t expect to see but it could change history quite a bit I feel and the weekend USSR not having nearly as much influence because western countries almost like a non violent operation unthinkable Lore Dad (LOOOOOORE miss you Mat Pat) had a great scenario the Cold War centering around Poland would be unique but it just adds yet another horrible situation for Poland they can’t catch a break Iran becoming a Soviet satellite makes sense because we all know how much Russia hates to leave occupied regions *Cough Cough Ukraine* uh what Overall great video major details I caught were the Germans need for oil, the USSR weakened, nukes lots of them, a slower defeat of Japan and a very different Cold War
i honestly love your vids but sometimes it seems that ur very biased towards your country, like i get it maybe i would also be like that but bulgaria getting land in every scenario just sometimes seems weird.
You get me wrong, I actually hate Bulgaria and want to move out. I should have given explanation for some border changes. For example, Bulgaria would keep the Greek parts so the Allies have access to the sea, which helped them land in the first place. Bulgaria capitulating to them, and being the first one to do so would help them secure some gains.
i think you are wrong the soviets were having a food crisis in 42 and losing the caucuses would make it even worse this food crisis wouldnt be able to be sustained and the soviet union wou collapse
I am not. Check my discord, I have said that if I get pissed enough from Bulgaria, I would move to your country - North Macedonia. I'm 100% going to Ohrid. All of this I have said publicly.
What do you mean "pissed enough" bro? Anyways, if you do plan on moving here, consider assimilating in our culture when you do, its the quickest way to be accepted in society here!
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I can create an alternative timeline where Germany wins the Battle of Stalingrad and explore the subsequent events in detail. Let's delve into this alternate history:
Timeline: Germany Wins the Battle of Stalingrad
1942
August 23 - February 2: The Battle of Stalingrad begins as German forces, under Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus, launch a massive assault on the city. Despite fierce Soviet resistance, the Germans make significant progress.
November 19: German forces under General Erich von Manstein break through Soviet defenses to encircle Stalingrad, effectively trapping Soviet forces inside the city.
December 12: The Red Army's 62nd Army, commanded by General Vasily Chuikov, begins its last stand in the city center, resisting the German onslaught.
1943
January 10: Despite the bitter cold and dwindling supplies, German forces manage to capture key strategic points within Stalingrad, including the Mamayev Kurgan hill.
January 31: Soviet attempts to break the encirclement fail as German air superiority and effective use of armored divisions thwart their efforts.
February 2: The remaining Soviet forces in Stalingrad, including General Chuikov, surrender to the Germans. The Battle of Stalingrad ends in a decisive German victory.
February 6: Adolf Hitler declares victory in Stalingrad, hailing it as a turning point in the war against the Soviet Union.
March 12: With the fall of Stalingrad, German forces begin to consolidate their gains in the region, pushing deeper into the Caucasus and securing vital oil fields.
April 5: The Axis powers, emboldened by their success in the East, launch Operation Citadel, a massive offensive aimed at eliminating the Soviet bulge at Kursk.
July 4: Operation Citadel concludes with a decisive German victory. The Red Army suffers heavy casualties, and the German advance continues.
1944
January 20: Soviet attempts to halt the German advance with a winter offensive fail to regain significant territory. German defenses hold firm along the Eastern Front.
June 6: Allied forces land in Normandy as part of Operation Overlord. With the Eastern Front stabilized, Germany can divert more resources to the Western Front, intensifying the conflict.
July 20: A failed assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler by German officers results in a crackdown on internal dissent within Germany.
1945
March 27: Soviet forces launch a massive offensive along the Eastern Front, aiming to push the Germans back and liberate territories lost earlier in the war.
April 30: Berlin falls to advancing Soviet troops after a prolonged and bloody battle. Adolf Hitler commits suicide in his bunker rather than face capture.
May 7: With the fall of Berlin, Germany surrenders unconditionally to the Allies, marking the end of World War II in Europe.
Aftermath:
Post-war division: Germany is divided into occupation zones by the victorious Allied powers. The Eastern part of the country falls under Soviet influence, while the Western part is occupied by British, American, and French forces.
Cold War tensions: The Soviet Union emerges from the war as a superpower, controlling vast territories in Eastern Europe. Tensions between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union escalate, leading to the onset of the Cold War.
Legacy of Stalingrad: The Battle of Stalingrad remains a symbol of German military prowess and Soviet resilience. It shapes post-war perceptions of the conflict and influences geopolitical dynamics for decades to come.
let's explore the border changes and the division between communist and democratic countries in this alternate Cold War scenario where Germany won the Battle of Stalingrad:
Eastern Europe:
Soviet Influence: With Germany's victory in Stalingrad and subsequent advances on the Eastern Front, the Soviet Union gains even more territory in Eastern Europe. Countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria fall under Soviet influence and become communist states aligned with Moscow.
Yugoslavia: Yugoslavia, under the leadership of Josip Broz Tito, maintains its independence from Soviet control and adopts a unique form of socialism, distinct from the Soviet model. It becomes a non-aligned nation, forging its path in the Cold War.
Western Europe:
Germany: The Western part of Germany, including West Berlin, becomes a democratic state under the influence of the Western Allies. It receives significant aid through the Marshall Plan to rebuild its economy and infrastructure.
France, UK, and Benelux: These countries remain democratic and are closely aligned with the United States as part of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), forming a bulwark against Soviet expansionism.
Italy: Italy remains democratic, with the support of the United States and other Western Allies. However, the influence of the Italian Communist Party remains significant, leading to political tensions within the country.
Asia:
China: The Chinese Civil War concludes with a victory for the Communist forces under Mao Zedong. With Soviet support, Communist China establishes itself as a major power in Asia, exerting influence over neighboring countries like North Korea and North Vietnam.
Korea and Vietnam: Korea remains divided along the 38th parallel, with the communist regime in the North supported by the Soviet Union and China, while the democratic regime in the South is backed by the United States and its allies. Similarly, Vietnam remains divided between the communist North and the democratic South, leading to the Vietnam War.
Middle East:
Iran: Iran leans towards the West, particularly the United States, as a strategic ally in the region. However, Soviet influence extends into neighboring countries like Afghanistan, leading to geopolitical tensions and proxy conflicts.
Africa:
North Africa: Countries like Egypt and Libya maintain a delicate balance between East and West, playing both sides to secure aid and support for their development.
Sub-Saharan Africa: The struggle for independence from colonial powers intensifies, with both communist and democratic factions vying for influence in newly formed nations. Superpower rivalry exacerbates existing conflicts, leading to instability in the region.
Certainly, even if Germany had won the Battle of Stalingrad, there were several underlying factors and strategic mistakes that would likely have led to their eventual defeat in World War II. Here are ten reasons why Germany would still have lost the war:
Overextended Supply Lines: Despite capturing Stalingrad, Germany's supply lines remained stretched thin across the vast Eastern Front. Maintaining the occupation of Stalingrad and continuing the advance into the Soviet Union would have strained German resources and logistics to unsustainable levels.
Soviet Industrial Capacity: The Soviet Union's vast industrial capacity, combined with its ability to relocate factories beyond the reach of German bombers, allowed it to continually replenish its armies with equipment and manpower, gradually wearing down the German war machine.
Allied Material Support: The United States and the United Kingdom provided substantial material support to the Soviet Union through programs like Lend-Lease, supplying essential equipment, vehicles, and food, which bolstered Soviet capabilities on the Eastern Front.
Soviet Winter Offensives: Even if Germany had captured Stalingrad, the harsh Russian winter and the Soviet Union's ability to mount counter-offensives during this period would have posed significant challenges to German forces, as experienced in previous winters during the war.
Strategic Mistakes: Hitler's strategic errors, including diverting resources away from critical objectives for ideological reasons (e.g., the invasion of the Soviet Union rather than focusing on securing resources in North Africa), hampered Germany's ability to sustain its war effort in the long term.
Battle of Kursk: The Battle of Kursk, which occurred after the Battle of Stalingrad in the historical timeline, would still have taken place. The Soviet victory at Kursk marked a turning point on the Eastern Front, demonstrating the limitations of German offensive capabilities and the increasing strength of Soviet defenses.
Strategic Bombing Campaign: The Allied strategic bombing campaign against German cities and industrial targets would have continued to escalate, inflicting heavy damage on Germany's infrastructure, production capabilities, and morale.
Internal Dissent: As the war dragged on and casualties mounted, internal dissent within Germany would have increased, exacerbated by Hitler's increasingly erratic leadership and the failures of his military strategies. This could have led to further instability and potentially even internal revolt.
Allied Invasion of Western Europe: The Allies' successful invasion of Normandy (D-Day) in June 1944 would have placed additional pressure on German forces, forcing them to fight a two-front war and diverting resources from the Eastern Front.
Superior Allied Coalition: Ultimately, Germany faced a coalition of powerful adversaries, including the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and other Allied nations. The combined industrial, military, and manpower resources of these countries far exceeded those of Germany, ensuring that, even if Germany had won at Stalingrad, it would have been unable to prevail in the long run against such overwhelming odds.
It's easy solution - they'd lose a city with their leader's name. Germans already suffered heavy casualities during the battle. They even took the city, but the units got encircled and destroyed. Soviets had more manpower to waste, more land-lease from countries etc. This is, what scorched earth policy is - retreating and retreating, fight a major battle on the supply hub and even if you lose, you'll inflict heavy casualities, since the opposite party is overextended by now
🤓
Genius
However, once he actually captures the city, he is now in possession of a major supply hub, making it easier for their army to move forward
@@adenm8963this isn't hoi4 the city would have been demolished it isn't a supply hub anymore after the battle
So basically what all of them said, but with less detail.
Once again, the Oder-Neisse Line happens to Germany, a territorial border shift which was proposed and pushed for by Stalin, which the western allies refused to support or acknowledge till it was already done. Germany still recieves this disastrous outcome in territorial border cut-offs, even tho it borders a free and western-aligned Polish state in LoreDads outcome. Not really a fan.
While I certainly see the Allied leadership open to the possibility of appeasing the Poles, I have doubts about all the ethnic cleansing that took place under Soviet rule taking place under Allied occupation, perhaps arming the Poles to do so? Perhaps the Poles will keep all of Prussia Instead of sharing it with the Soviets, but get none of Pomerania, homever, I doubt that Silesia will be kept in any way, and obviously the German minority in Bohemia will certainly be expelled. The Allied occupation of Germany was by no means lenient, better than the savage Soviet occupation, but the Allies deliberately starved the Germana as a form of revenge, not to mention indiscriminately bombing civilians.
Bro, what did you expect? The Germans committed huge crimes, and also proved that the balance of powers was completely broken. They had to be rescaled
Bulgarian nationalist trying not to make Bulgaria bigger (impossible)
edit: typo
Not a Bulgarian nationalist, literally hate this country and want to move out ASAP.
@@rewriting-history Satirical comment
This is something only a bulgarian nationalist would say @@rewriting-history
@@FodaseNaoLigo bro read my discord, I cant wait to move out and go live in Switzerland
@@rewriting-historyhope you get to move asap then
All of these scenarios have one thing in common to say:
"Germany captures the Baku oil fields but their supply lines are bad and the soviets push them back to Rostov and Germany loses."
Which is good, if 5 different people who do this for a living say that, then it's probably true.
*and the Soviets are weak after the war
@@rewriting-historynot a single one of them mentioned the massive famine that would outbreak in the ussr if the Germans had continued to hold this vital agricultural land of the ussr into 1943
@@cringewatcher4229except that the american government wouldve supplied them with lend lease so they wouldn’t suffer a famine. also germans were also suffering too, look at allied bombing campaigns
@@luvv4kevv it’s actually hilarious that you think lend lease would have made up for this level of disaster.
Huge fan of your work! Suggestion: What if spain joined the allies in WW2?
Very interesting, I will keep it in mind. It's the opposite of Spain joining the Axis, which possible history has done already
I wonder how Germany would get tungsten and what Portugal would do, although with spain in the allies I don't see any reason for Portugal to stay neutral
@@rewriting-history They wouldn't they were fascists, and fascists will work with other fascists, at least in the short term.
@@Vaushgg most of these scenarios tweak with history, so they change what happend previously that led to that scenario, so if spain joined the allies the fascist would have to lose the civil war, i think you get what i’m saying
@@VaushggFaciscts work toward their interests in the short term. The faciscts in central America were among the first to declare war on Japan after they attacked the US. I think it would be possible that the US and Britain could say offer a ton of aid to rebuild Spain after the 3 year Civil War and get them on side.
Great video! This was fun!
Huge fan sir I have been your fan for 7 months I like your videos you do a very good job sir
indians always be so wholesome lol
Genuinely love your videos man!🩶
Appreciate this very much, I'm glad people are liking them
I personally really doubt that the Oder-Neisse line would be the borders for Germany in every scenario. Especially in these where Ukraine and Belarus would be independent. There would be no reason to deport that many ethnical Germans from these lands if the Sovjet Union didn't even advance into these territories, therefore the German inhabitatants wouldn't flee to the east like they did in our timeline.
Yeah, most likely Poland would be still roughly the same size but be compensated with western Belarus and Ukraine's territories.
Is that a TNO reference
Not what I expected, but still really enjoyable! Great job to all the creators here!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Something worth mentioning: There is absolutely no reason to attach Crimea to any sort of Ukraine in any of these scenarios. Crimea was part of the Russian SFSR until 1954
Can't wait! Love your content 😊😊😊❤❤❤
Appreciate that! I hope you will like this one, it's quite long!
Dang this is crazy crossover event
It is, the video is also quite long!
7 months ago I give you some ideas like what if India got its independence in 1914 or 1918 your decision united and what if Qing dynasty survived ww2 and what if Japanese Empire never join axis and what if Saxon combined with Prussia after 30 years war and also got Sweden Empire land in Germany after the great winter war of 1700
great video (i bought your book im almost done already it so great i hope you make more althistory books)
I hope so too! I want to appreciate the support you've shown me by purchasing UA-cam membership and the E-book, you're awesome! If you find any mistakes in the E-book, you can let me know on discord and I will fix them all! Have fun watching this video!
@@rewriting-history oke np if i find something i will let you know
@@Sonia_Mapper appreciate that, hope you reach the end and like it!
@@rewriting-history i think that your Scenario was the most realistic
Becouse it make sense for balcans bc it was mayby nucked and bombarded by soviets so they wouldn't want to get to soviet hands so they join Britain
Love your videos!💚
Glad you like them!
Big fan of your channel! Idea: What If Africa was never colonized?
To what extent does "colonize" mean? I don't think it would be possible for Europe to not take lands like south Africa or ports in the west. Although, avoiding full colonization would be a cool scenario
To what extent colonialism is European or true colonialism in that way count every single large Empire in Europe and every single large empire in middle East
This is a hard one because you have to go all the way back to the Punic wars
7:10 Никога нямаше да си помисля, че си българин, ама браво на теб!
Много благодаря, оценявам го! Има още време докато името ми се разпознава в България, ама и до там ще стигнем.
@@rewriting-history Стискам палци да се случи.
I don't know if Poland would keep his current shape Poland annexing prussia only happening because of the Soviet seizure of the East Poland on a weaker Soviet would mean less likely they would seizure ( I'm obviously not talking about East prussia)
underrated channel tb you should have at the very least 100k subs
Working on it!
This video massively overestimates Germany’s ability to keep fighting the war. The loss of Stalingrad wouldn’t cripple the Soviets, and they would launch counter offensives. I’d say they’d be at most delayed by a year or two.
Handsome Dutchman's logo looks like a certain website...
Well-made video dude! More ppl should know about you.
Video suggestion and if Hungary remained neutral in the second war
as a polish person, the fact that LoreDad's section starts at 21:37 makes me laugh my ass off
As a person who isn't polish. What? can anyone explain the joke.
OH MY GOD I JUST REALIZED
@@4n0m113I think it's a meme reffering to a Pope who died on 21:37PM, dunno.
I don't get it, but many people seem to do. What is this? I didn't intend anything bad
@@rewriting-history its not bad in Poland its a funny number its the hour the pope died and we just make memes about it yiu should chęci them out some of theam are very funny also wouldnt the soviet Union collapse after losing stalingrad and possibly leningrad or atleast cause some small rebelions in the red army likenin ww1 ?
24:04, as a polish, i am heartwarmed
One of my next videos would be about it succeeding. I see people like this topic
@@rewriting-history nice
POLSKA GUROM 🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥💪💪🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱💯🙉🥶🎳😎
POLSKA☝☝🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Historical Mapping UA-cams Council, Have decided a form of Alternate Universe. perfectly beautifull concept with deep writing and detail. realistic and no absurdity. little biased to country they nationalistic, they have higher expectations and write detail-er action.
4:33 "this is because fr*nce never surrenders"
*I beg your pardon?*
Ohhh GOD.. That accent..😵💫!
YEY NEW VIDEO
It took me a while, but here it is!
Lore of UA-camrs guess What if Germany won at Stalingrad momentum 100
Actually their was no german forces in french north africa
This is why the allies landed here.
They only encountered a few Vichy troops, most of which joined them.
Two things I find strange about your scenario: the U.S. helping the Soviets build the nukes, even tough they wanted to avoid them being able to access that technology as long as possible and Germany not doubling down on its nuclear program after its success in the U.S. for ideological reasons (even tough they did not have sufficient ressources)
Certainly, even if Germany had won the Battle of Stalingrad, there were several underlying factors and strategic mistakes that would likely have led to their eventual defeat in World War II. Here are ten reasons why Germany would still have lost the war:
Overextended Supply Lines: Despite capturing Stalingrad, Germany's supply lines remained stretched thin across the vast Eastern Front. Maintaining the occupation of Stalingrad and continuing the advance into the Soviet Union would have strained German resources and logistics to unsustainable levels.
Soviet Industrial Capacity: The Soviet Union's vast industrial capacity, combined with its ability to relocate factories beyond the reach of German bombers, allowed it to continually replenish its armies with equipment and manpower, gradually wearing down the German war machine.
Allied Material Support: The United States and the United Kingdom provided substantial material support to the Soviet Union through programs like Lend-Lease, supplying essential equipment, vehicles, and food, which bolstered Soviet capabilities on the Eastern Front.
Soviet Winter Offensives: Even if Germany had captured Stalingrad, the harsh Russian winter and the Soviet Union's ability to mount counter-offensives during this period would have posed significant challenges to German forces, as experienced in previous winters during the war.
Strategic Mistakes: Hitler's strategic errors, including diverting resources away from critical objectives for ideological reasons (e.g., the invasion of the Soviet Union rather than focusing on securing resources in North Africa), hampered Germany's ability to sustain its war effort in the long term.
Battle of Kursk: The Battle of Kursk, which occurred after the Battle of Stalingrad in the historical timeline, would still have taken place. The Soviet victory at Kursk marked a turning point on the Eastern Front, demonstrating the limitations of German offensive capabilities and the increasing strength of Soviet defenses.
Strategic Bombing Campaign: The Allied strategic bombing campaign against German cities and industrial targets would have continued to escalate, inflicting heavy damage on Germany's infrastructure, production capabilities, and morale.
Internal Dissent: As the war dragged on and casualties mounted, internal dissent within Germany would have increased, exacerbated by Hitler's increasingly erratic leadership and the failures of his military strategies. This could have led to further instability and potentially even internal revolt.
Allied Invasion of Western Europe: The Allies' successful invasion of Normandy (D-Day) in June 1944 would have placed additional pressure on German forces, forcing them to fight a two-front war and diverting resources from the Eastern Front.
Superior Allied Coalition: Ultimately, Germany faced a coalition of powerful adversaries, including the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and other Allied nations. The combined industrial, military, and manpower resources of these countries far exceeded those of Germany, ensuring that, even if Germany had won at Stalingrad, it would have been unable to prevail in the long run against such overwhelming odds.
9:45 LMAO how did Bulgaria keep the land in Greece????
Hi I have an idea : what if the battle of the Somme was won (a relative of mine survived the battle of the Somme)
what if crassus conquered persia
I’m ngl, when the video started i thought you were speaking a whole different language but you just got a hard ass accent 😂
I do have a strong accent, some people really like it. I'm working on improving it
I miss something huge in this video. All of you talked about the allies support of supply for the SU BUT know one really thought about were these support lines was. In our history the supply ONLY came over the Caucasus and then over the Wolga river. If Germany secured Stalingrad the allies supply to the SU would be dead. Since the way over Sibiria is to long, the Nordic and Baltic corridor isn’t possible as well and Central Asia Land Corridor has not enough Infrastructure. You could think about so you could think could only supply the front on the Caspian Sea but not further into the north. And no one really thought about that
If you think about it. If the germans (for some reason) left the battle of Moscow victorious, Stalingrad wouldn't have happened. Or definitely not as it happened in our timeline. It seems most people see Stalingrad more of a turning Tide. When Moscow failed, Barbarossa was a catastrophic plan, at that point not winnable anymore.
That is my opinion though. Of course germany could've done a second wave, as in a second successful plan, pushing the soviets back further than before. However that probably wouldn't AT ALL connect to Stalingrad.
usually only give 1 comment to guess the results of the title, but this time ill give 2
im guessing you guys will say taking Stalingrad also means taking Baku, but it doesnt, britain would push through the soviet occupation zone in Iran and then simply occupy Baku themselves, the British would even have a faster route through Iran because of terrain
Depends how decisive is the victory
If germany take the city in low months and encircle caucasus,they would heavily weaken the soviets and possibily more resource and manpower to stop D day,dragoon and sicily landing
500 million seems ridiculous. I'd imagine you wouldn't get more than 150 million.
The thing that I always wonder is if america really would nuke Germany at all, since it’s in the middle of Europe and a lot of Americans have German descent I can’t fully imagine that they would decimate their “family” like that, it was different with japan because they didn’t really have any ties with them
The war would never go past 1947. The manpower shortages are a serious issue because not enough people would be farming. Resulting in a massive famine in the Soviet Union and looming famine within the axis. The longer the Germans hold against the Soviets the worse it is for them as well because of the German collaboration governments. This gives Germany enough time in Ukraine to make a study supply of grain while also recruiting more Russian/ukrainian volunteers. Likewise cutting off the oil to the Soviets is a huge development. Need oil for trucks, planes, tanks. Without it their units are virtually isolated unless they have enough horses and carriages. Which isn’t possible.
However I do believe the allies would not continue onto peace and the war would drag on perpetually within the air. The Soviets would capitulate unofficially as they descend further into anarchy by the shear amount of famine.
Another important notice is that the allies bombed former allies such as france. The longer they continue this the more French volunteers the Germans can pull out of them. If everyone is scared of famine within the European continent then they would more likely ally themselves with Germany just to live. The punitive actions that people blame Germany for is exaggerated and is not enough to cause any sort of revolution. The Russians would resist longer but only as so long as they have food on their plates.
The shear amount of famine in Europe would destroy all of Germany’s enemies which would only worsen the allied front.
Likewise the allies were not enthusiastic about the war to begin with a favored peace. Only by special interest groups and politicians did the war in Europe actually conclude. In this alternate reality Germany would still have the resources to switch gears and hold a decent air defense, especially after the jet engine model allowing them to respond quicker and do hit and run tactics.
The war would be far more deadly and more akin to China or the Spanish civil war where most of everybody would die from famine. It would be the deadliest war of attrition in history.
It ultimately comes down to how much the American government can force their population to continue the war effort. If the Americans were somehow convinced for total war they would win but would suffer more casualties than ww1. Britian’s empire would collapse on itself, most likely resulting in India’s famine, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand leaving the war or refusing any nominal war support.
The situation in Europe would only favor the axis if the war prolonged. Governments would slowly start aligning with German politics and collaboration regimes mostly because of the war but again also because of Germany’s economic leadership.
1/3 of the European continent will die in this scenario if not more.
So in all of these scenarios, Germany still loses? Great!!!
More people would complain if Germany won. Can't please them all
@@rewriting-history I actually love the alternate fascist defeat scenarios. Like what if France stopped Germany in 1940 is my personal favorite because I think it is the most realistic. Keep up the great work.👍👍👌👌
I'd say all of these are a far worse alternate world than the one we've got, especially yours mr.rewriting history. I love Porphyrios' scenario so much though, parodying Axis retreat to Americas by having them seek refuge to the moon is hilarious.
*20:43* Also _YEAH,_ obviously somebody with a ukraine flag as their pfp would be making such claims, why am I surprised. I think that's really wrong, because at that point the fate of the war would still not be as determined and Ukraine and Batics are thousands of kilometres away from Westerners' active front... Also even if that was the case, why is Crimea included in that map for Ukraine? It was only transfered to them in 1954!..
your own scenario was the most realistic and it was the only one that briefly mentioned casualties
at the end of the war in our time the casualties were so high and the germans were killing so many people if the war took longer the germans for getting more troops would want to take them from the occupation forces
i imagine after 1945 for most of the eastern europe it would be they give germans some sort of supply or they would be completely wiped out of the map the bad thing here is if they do it without leaking any news of it there will be no major revolt
it would be just sad and if dragged long enough after the war many of europe ethnic groups either are completely destroyed or taker Irreversible losses
we should be glad it didn’t happen
18:48 Oh, wonderful.
Nice to see German forces were able to hold their colony in Togo (Africa).
Maybe these were the soldiers of the Imperial German Army, who managed to withstand allied/entente pressure for 20 years :D
Wtf 500 million dead!?
Nukes
Longer war in china
@@cadentrevino5746 still unrealistic, unless the war goes into the late 50s
Right, doesn't make any sense. The soviet union would probably use nukes in a strategic way; on large german armies and on a few major german cities. Causing a few extra million deaths. Not depopulating western Russia, eastern Europe, Germany, and italy.
Yeah, 500m feels way too excessive nukes or not.
Personal preference was from Possible history
The more I look at Germany's core land, the better it gets. I don't know why.
If the Battle of Stalingard was won for the Germans, the war would simply extend slightly longer. The German logistics were horrendous and prevented Germany getting further than they had.
Battles do not decide wars, logistics and economics do
Also, no, the German army was pretty shit. There were incompetent, with okay technology, and disconnected from reality.
Like, ffs, the Soviet Union beat them, The Soviet Union is almost the modern day Russian army but was bigger and more able to replace their losses, the Soviet army was shit, and the Germans still lost the war, if the Soviets were that shit, the Germans were crap
RH in your scenario i think many european state especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans would be more pro-soviet even if they aren't communists because the population wouldn't want to cooperate with America after they nuked their country into the ground. I think these states (even if a democratic regime is created) would turn to communism or an anti-western-fascism and they would be more willing to cooperate with the soviets than the allies. But even countries like Britain, or France might be less willing to cooperate with the US after seeing how they nuked Europe into the ground and how they turned Eastern Europe into a nuclear waseland. So the cold war might not even happen as anti-westernism is rising in Europe so the US would once again turn to isolationism. This would also apply to Germany, I can imagine that West Germany might vote to unite with the East as they would be radical anti-westerners so they would be a neutral state or they unite with East Germany. NATO and the EU might never form ittl.
The idea that the allies would use the nuke on germany despite having no actual foot on european ground is ludicrous. Germany had huge reserves of biochemical weapons which they never used. If the allies used a nuke, London would be turned into a toxic wasteland. The nuke was meant to be dropped on germany in 1944 or 1945 to encourage their faster surrender; if they dropped it on germany without actually having a front in europe, it would just escalate the war.
4:53 The Americans had 3 nukes by mid 1945. And due to the Soviet loss at Stalingrad, I believe the Americans and allies overall would try and make more bombs.
Something something german defeat was inevitable because allies had bigger number (every successful revolution in human history was asb)
Bohemia needs to be a part of the Reich. That salient sticking into the heart of Germany looks ridiculous.
we wouldnt have modern day german borders after ww2, the germans would likely still have some prussian lands (silesia and such) but a divided east prussia
The first one was the most unrealistic, because the americans are totally not willing to support communist to wipe out their ancestral homeland.
This was before the red scare
Isn’t German Argentina just irl?
wouldn't the german airforce be able to repel some of the bombings and nukings in this timeline due to capturing the oil fields in the Caucasus
imagine the video was actually early April fools
21:37 guys 🇵🇱🔥
What if America joins WW2 in 1939 or what if the Germans and Italians won the Atlantic and Mediterranean
Germany would still be overstretched in Russia around the Volga River to maintain the border at least while pushing everything into Azerbaijan. Regardless of whether it makes any sense for them to try to cross the Volga or the Caucasus, they would try out of blind belief at that point. They’d be too close to finishing off the Soviets and so close to the oil fields to have the sense to hold. D Day I think has almost equally as good of a chance and I think the pushes into Italy and Morocco would be equally as successful as in our timeline. I also don’t think the Soviets would’ve had nukes in 1949. They’d be focusing everything at that point into holding off the Germans who wouldn’t realistically give up pushing on the river. They’d be too close to victory to stop. The Americans also still wouldn’t support the Soviet program, they were just as scared of them as they were of the Germans. The Soviets got the bomb in a relative time of peace, they don’t have that time anymore. I think they’d still get it eventually if they don’t collapse, I don’t think it’d be until the 1950s though. I’m also not so sure the Japanese fall as early. The Soviets wouldn’t get involved on that front because they can’t risk sending manpower and equipment east to open up a new front to the war when the Germans just need to make a beach head to cross the river. If they get over, that’s it for the Soviets. Their next line of defence is the Ural Mountains and at that point, they’ve lost. I do think there’s potential that the Americans would share the technology with the British to upscale production but I highly doubt it. Without a rival power having nukes incentivizing them to let the British use them too, America would likely want to keep the technology to themselves. The Japanese would still get absolutely rocked by the American navy, but with the nukes focused in Germany against a bigger threat and the Soviets not rushing into Manchuria and Korea, I think the allies might accept a Japanese surrender that sees them keeping the Kurils and half of Sakhalin just to get them out of the war. Korea would likely come entirely under American occupation and with the Soviets too busy trying to fight the Germans, the Kuomintang likely win the Chinese Civil War although I suspect there would continue to be civil unrest for some time given the tactics they used during the two conflicts. I imagine they’d have to give up all conquered territory in Southeast Asia and China as well as Manchuria and Taiwan though. Back to the western front, the western allies would definitely reach Berlin first although Germany might be in so much rubble that it wouldn’t even matter. I suspect Poland would be where the Soviets and western allies actually begin partitions. Without the Germans being half occupied, I suspect they’d likely lose a lot more than modern Germany has. Possibly even being divided into several states; Brandenburg who might still hold Pomerania but definitely not Prussia, Hanover, Bavaria, Westphalia, and Austria. It’s also possible Germany is kept more united as a strong bulwark against the Soviets if the western allies and Russia don’t immediately begin fighting each other. Fighting Germany for much longer could very easily sway America and Britain into listening to France in this timeline and separating Germany though. It’s also possible that as an alternative, Germany is kept united with two exceptions. They still lose Austria as usual but this time, they also lose all land west of the Rhine, some being ceded to France and the rest being some combination of Belgium, the Netherlands, and a Westphalian state. This would be the outcome I’d probably lean towards as it’d balance the needs for a German bulwark against the Soviet Union while also adhering to France and its security concerns. It would really depend how far into Poland the Soviets get. In this situation, I suspect the remaining German territory would still include Silesia and Pomerania, just not Prussia which would be ceded to Poland.
Yes
ripped lincon, the only reason the poleswere given silesia and pomerania was because they needed to be compensated. the poles would not loste the est of ukraine and the russians would keep russian majority areas in ukraine
All of you assume the Deu-Pol border from our timeline. But with the Soviets weakened, I don't think this specific warcrime would happen.
People just assumed that german stalingrad = german caucasus. But how do they win stalingrad? Do they just beat operation uranus and crush stalingrad in january 1943? If so then the battle of kursk will be the battle of the caucasus, the germans won't conquer it, and are just going to be defeated more slowly.
What if germany was on drugs would they win stalingrad 😮
I don't think the battle of Stalingrad would change the outcome of the war. If Germany did win at Stalingrad, they would just have lost 100's of thousands of men, occupying a city that is useless now with dwindling supply lines. The Germans would quickly be pushed back from Stalingrad. The only change would be Germany surviving a few months more, I would say they would survive to the opening months of 1945, as the Soviet pushback would be slowed down.
I also think D-day would succeed, as if the Germans did capture Stalingrad, they would probably rush more men from the west to the east, to try to defeat the Soviets, which would fail, and the United States and Britain combined, much more powerful then Germany, would certainly land in mainland Europe, especially as German manpower is crippled in the Soviet Union.
Why would poland gain estern land in the split poland idea?
If germany won stalingrad it would be severe blow for the soviets and moscow i think would fell if germany won stalingrad with few cassuilties they would defeat the ussr
maybe there wuouldn't be a cold war at all?🤔
23:48 oh, no, he said it he said the word Welp bye-bye monetization. Sorry. I don’t make UA-cam’s rules.
nah nah cuz i watch these guys what the hell are these ai voices my lore daddy literally sounds like chat gpt gone mapper mode here😂
what if germany joined the allies in ww2? shitpost idea…
I found your scenario quite scary for many reasons but it was good the Nukes were a very important and interesting part
PH’s scenario I thought was intriguing because he attempted to play devils advocate veering away from his typical approach of the USSR obliterating Germany
Porphyries going a more allied centered direction it seems and again a possibility of nukes being used on Germany which I think is reasonable to consider then the ending I love it lol
I liked Ripped Lincoln’s very fun for MURICA HECK YEAH lol the independent Ukraine is a very unique take I didn’t expect to see but it could change history quite a bit I feel and the weekend USSR not having nearly as much influence because western countries almost like a non violent operation unthinkable
Lore Dad (LOOOOOORE miss you Mat Pat) had a great scenario the Cold War centering around Poland would be unique but it just adds yet another horrible situation for Poland they can’t catch a break Iran becoming a Soviet satellite makes sense because we all know how much Russia hates to leave occupied regions *Cough Cough Ukraine* uh what
Overall great video major details I caught were the Germans need for oil, the USSR weakened, nukes lots of them, a slower defeat of Japan and a very different Cold War
W vid
germany wins stalingrad and they still lose similarly
19:56. No, they did not.
Read about Joel Brand and Adolf Eichmann, it is legit true. Just search “Germany offers Jews for trucks”.
i honestly love your vids but sometimes it seems that ur very biased towards your country, like i get it maybe i would also be like that but bulgaria getting land in every scenario just sometimes seems weird.
You get me wrong, I actually hate Bulgaria and want to move out. I should have given explanation for some border changes. For example, Bulgaria would keep the Greek parts so the Allies have access to the sea, which helped them land in the first place. Bulgaria capitulating to them, and being the first one to do so would help them secure some gains.
i think you are wrong the soviets were having a food crisis in 42 and losing the caucuses would make it even worse this food crisis wouldnt be able to be sustained and the soviet union wou collapse
Hello
Hello there!
oil
id win
Ти си българин . Какво ???
🌘
I would pin this comment, but I already have something. 45% voted that your scenario is the most interesting btw!
@@rewriting-history No way!
Bro might be a little too biased when it comes to Bulgaria
I am not. Check my discord, I have said that if I get pissed enough from Bulgaria, I would move to your country - North Macedonia. I'm 100% going to Ohrid. All of this I have said publicly.
What do you mean "pissed enough" bro? Anyways, if you do plan on moving here, consider assimilating in our culture when you do, its the quickest way to be accepted in society here!
Germany would never take northern slesvig from Denmark. fake, bad dookie doo
Nope the Germans would have still lost but the soviets would have destroyed every brick in berlin if Stalingrad fell
this was a waste of time 3 things changed
We tried to be realistic. When we're unrealistic, people shout at us, same happens when we're realistic. Idk man, being a youtuber is hard
@@rewriting-history just do what you want no one can force you to do your videos a certain way you should also have fun while doing them.