How To Properly Run 6s Packs On Your 4s Builds 😱 6s Battery VS 4s Motor
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
- In Today's video we learn how to put 6 cell batteries on 4 cell quadcopters. We even learn to do make it do both! And it's all about how to properly set up a Output Limit. It is commonly known to put a throttle limit in order to get away with running a 6s battery on 4s motors. If something were to go wrong you could easily smoke your motors, or even your entire quad. Setting a output limit properly will prevent that from happening and allow you to have all the 6s fun you want on your 4s build!
We take it a step further and we learn how to set it up on auto profiles so that way you can still use your 4s rig to fly 4s batteries, no extra work needed, when you plug it in.... it automatically detects the voltage and adjusts to the correct profile for that battery's cell count!!!! I know.. i know... that's amazing!!!! Let's Go!!
The simple equation you will need is:
"Desired 6s Kv" ÷ "Actually 4s Kv" x 100 =
"The Percentage Needed" a.k.a "Magic Number"
Auto Profile CLI Command:
set auto_profile_cell_count = "The Cell You Want"
CLI Command For Setting Your Output Limit/Percentage
set motor_output_limit = "Your Magic Number"
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BE AWARE! this is a great video. However, Ive burned two T-Motor 2550kv and one ESC by doing this. The cables inside the motors melted down after a few packs creating resistance and overheating the motors. Check your motors every time you finish a pack. If it’s too hot continue lowering the output limit or you could try tuning your quad better. *Like this comment so other people become aware.*
Can you elaborate how it happened? did the trick worked or did you overpushed your motors like 2550kv to 1900kv 6s? you ve said "after few packs" so I understand that it doesnt burn it right away. Am I correct?
it s probably not the power out but the PIDs. The D is way to high for 4s. The PIDs bypass the motor output limit/scale . Please tell us if you had any luck :)
@@zafosinferno888 Well after seeing this post I have asked this at Betaflight Slack channel. Some people replied that they had no issues . I am copying Tehllama42 's reply here :
" I have about 13 quads on remapped motors that all run 6S with motor KV above 2000KV, so if it flies on 4S, you will be fine on 6S (but highly recommend building a 6S PID tune with less master slider, and throttle limiting)" and "you'll probably be fine with dropping the master slider two ticks, and starting off with the throttle limit around 72% at the motors (and if you like limiting from the transmitter, running 67% there). That bit of extra overhead is for the PID controller to use."
I am going to take these advices and start PID tuning from there.. That being said currently I have no 6s battery and need to order one..
And I am thinking that zafosinferno888 guy might have used Drainman's magic numbers but his KV is higher. That might be the reason afterall
@@FrenzyIncarnate thanks that is some insightful info :)
I lost two quads. One went out suddenly on the first pack through it. The other one was the same FC different ESC. Motots got so hot it melted the solder off the racewire on one of the motors, but I got through six races I believe. Not sure if that would make a difference. Think I'm just gonna be safe and get motors that are meant for it.
Bro. Thank you. I put a 6s 3000mah lithium ion pack on my iflight nazgul 4s and got 15 minutes flight time in windy conditions with full size gopro. I got some bi blades coming soon. I have the motors running at 1550 kv. Crazy!!!
just found this guy, absolutely amazing
looks like the hobby has another josh bardwell, excellent info man thanks for sharing your knowledge. new subscriber here.
Dude. You are the man. Answered all my questions without asking them. Thank you so much. Subscribing now
Tried this today and it's stunning. Best improvement of Betaflight 4.1 I'd say ;-)
Good explanation and straight to the point, the auto-select was a nice bonus
this is nuts.... I'm totally a newbe with drones and ..I was just wondering which 6s motors to buy for my quad in order to be able to use brand new 6s batteries .... with this.... i have not to swhitch motors! Thanks. Simple but elegant trick. Best regards from Mexico
Whoa! What a magic process, wanted to use my 1950 as 1750 on 6S and taking it out to field now. Hope it works, thanks mate!!!
Followed your setup to the letter and plugged in my brand new stack which is 6s rated and nothing but smoke!!! GREAT TUTORIAL!!! Ive been flying since 2015 also. Not my first build in anyway!!!
Awesome!! 🎉🎉
Smoke stopper?
It flew fine on 4s. Then about 10 seconds of mild hovering on 6s. Motors quit spinning so i unplugged. No continuity issues whatsoever. Pyro sent me a replacement esc but its not even reading them in blheli. The original esc still seems to work on the computer. It shows 4 escs. Flashes fine. Switches all work in reciever tab. But will not arm now. I have no warning flags either. Tried rpm filtering in and off as well as flashing from 3.5.7 through 4.1.3!!! Iflight said send it to them and theyll take care of it. So xustomer service is great from my experience. Just had bad luck.
Also its not even pulling 12 amps on 6s at about 30% throttle. I cant imagine it hitting more than 30 amps per esc at the absolute maximum
I almost went and stuck a 6s on my 4s Nazgul5 until I watched this, thanks for the info. I think I'll just buy a 6s drone for convenience. Just Subbed. Keep up the good work man.
Just an FYI, you can probably spend 60 bucks on 4 new 1800kv motors and swap them on your nazgul, and you can run anything from 2s to 6s on it with zero problems. The esc and fc on that drone can both handle 6s I believe.
Im a little late on this...
If you wanted a specific Kv but didn't want to choke your motors too much, heres a formula I came up with to find the 4s motor that fits the requirements. Not perfect but it gets you in the ball park.
a=desired Kv performance
f=Your motor output choke limit %
b=necessary Kv motor to satisfy your request
b=a(2-(f/100))
Right on Drainman🤘🔥
Great walk through! I have a bunch of 4s that I was hoping to convert to 3s on a new build - this seems like it will do the trick.
This is a great way to get different kv for different task or builds man based on what your doing IE long range ect !
You have to laugh, you just did with JB tried to do.
Great way to work from 4 cells to 5 cells too. Thanks!
thanks brother for this information as this just helped me use all my old motors i have laying about, saved me some monies 100%
You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks brother. I really appreciate your teachings. Keep up the great work!
Worked! Just flew to mars 😀
Like always Drainman is on point. 🙏
Knowledge never gets old
Thanks....just what I needed to see. Great walk-through!
Have yet to try this but man, u gonna save me some money if my fleet doesnt explode :D
Any updates?
would you get same performance as running a 6s pack with low kv motors such as 1600kv? or does this method just make it so you can run your quad on this back with any real extra benifit?
For my opinion the prrformance are the same of 4s . I try on my Nazgul 4s
Love it. Dual purpose video. How to limit motors AND get different PID/rate profiles for each battery type.
1st vid ive seen of yours. =sub.
Thanks Xan!
KV okay but how about torque ? will it perform exactly same as 1750kv motors ?
Very clear, i was able to follow along no problem, flight tested right after and works, thanks DrainMan! 💯👊🏻🔥🔥🔥
thanks DrainMan. great vid. set it up and will try tomorrow.
Awesome video Man!!! Just subscribed!! 😎
Worked for me for over a year now why buy new motors 👍👊🔥
Drainman hellz yea just finished doing this in bf been fly 4s since I started now I can fly 6s sweet man thanks
Wow man this is sick, thanks for the guide!!
Why nobody talk about this. Thx bro that was one question i had for so long .
Great video again DrainMan! Clear instructions, no nonsense.
Why would anyone get low KV motors if this one drone can do both 4S and 6S? Is there any disadvantage?
Moos ! That's a phenomenal question!
Well, actually it is not totally true because when you do this you have a motor that is not working at 100%. Unfortunately when you divide the output by the "magic number" you're not actually dividing the battery voltage that goes to the motor but you're only making that voltage be active an x% it would normally be. What does that mean? It means that the current peak that passes through the wires is the same as if it wasn't limited, even though the average is lower. So in the end you have less efficiency because you have more high-current losses and because of the higher peak you stress more the battery (even though flight-time is the same because the average current is the same).
So it is a lot closer to using a 4s setup with a 4s battery than it is to using a 6s common setup. But considering it is a lot more practical and you can make it a lot more powerful than any of the above because you can always increase the "magic number", this is a very nice option to go if you don't have many builds and batteries. Approved!
You’re friggin’ awesome, Drainman!
Great info bro!:) 👍🏻🤗🍾
Thanks you very much 👌😉
Thanks man. !!! New subbed.
Love you Drainman- Thanks!
Brilliant Drainman. I just received HGLRC Sector5 which I ordered with 4s motors but is 6s capable otherwise. Perfect opportunity for me to try this. Thanks Bro!
I get why some would want to do this, but I don't think it is worth the effort. If you want to run anywhere from 2-6s batteries on a quad, you simply need to get motors rated for 6s and put them on your quad. Then it will automatically function with varying levels of aggressiveness depending on the voltage of battery you installed. Most flight controllers and esc's can handle 6s these days(check yours to make sure). So its a no brainer to just get lower kv motors that can handle 6s. The exception to this is if you are fully committed to using 4s batteries. Then you will benefit from more power and flight time with 2200-2800 kv motors
Damn yeah bro the way you explain is amazing 😉
Bro how do you know all this cool stuff ? That is so awesome , thank you 👊
Thanks Phil!
Great vid it would great to. if I wanted to remove it from a profile what would I put in a cli thank you
this is awesome man! subbed right there!
Thanks Quebec!
Thank you 👍
Thank you
Great video! Thanks for sharing with the community. Do you know how this may impact motor efficiency and flight times?
Will the motors run hotter?
Has anyone noticed that your motors idle much faster on 6s. The motor idle is on the Configuration Tab, not on the PID Profiles that I can see.
Is there a way to have your idle valves constant no matter 4s or 6s?
Yeah I have noticed the same thing. Did you find a solution?
I followed this exactly. Seems to work ok. 4 batteries in my motor major smoked caught fire. Not sure wtf happened but this caused me a crash and lots of damage .
Great video, subbed!
Nice video dude! I suggest one thing, try to look to the camera inbred to the pc monitor!
Grate video
Great video. Just subscribed. Nice clear and to the point.
Thanks Spider!
Thank you man you just saved my life
men this was a great freeking video thank u DrainMan
Love it. What a nice way to give yourself more options for different situations. I could be wrong but I believe Kiss is not able to do this. is that correct? I love Kiss, but your vids show me why people like Betaflight. I'm building another quad and going to give Betaflight another chance. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I absolutely love kiss myself. But if you want to have fun and tinker with stuff you got to have betaflight
Thanks Brother Nice Video Very helpful
Thank you for this video. I followed this. My question is, do I need to copy your PID and rates? My quad is xrotor f4 g3 60amp with xing 2450kv. Thanks.
I made this and wen after some time and changed my motor to 6S motors how can I delete the profile limit thatI made ?
Hot damn!!! That's was freaking amazing
I have 1700kv motors on the quad, I'm getting new 2600kv motors in the mail I won. My motors are old so I'm going to swap them but I only have 6s batteries. What's the reverse way to do what it says to do in the tutorial. I have to copy or create a 4s tune then save it and repeat his process? Or is there an easier way... Can I just put the motors on since it's already tuned for 6s? Mebe?
You're pretty good at this youtube stuff. Keep it up.
Thanks Ishy!
the only part i dont understand is the last thing you do, that backup thing with -1. Why do you need that?
I want to use this trick with my newbeedrone acrobee tinywhoop , to run 2s when i carry my insta360 go. It has 18000kv motors. That AIO board is 2S capable.
Great video! Thank you!👍
Thanks Josa!
Thank you! 🙌
thanks bro.. nice info
Hi, what if you just lower the throttle curve on the radio? Take max throttle from 100% to 72%....and adjust the rest of the curve to your needs??
That's badass. Thanks man!
So I have some 1404 5000kv motors and I'd like to run them at around 3600kv. What would be my magic number? Thanks!
Question, If i did all these settings, but now want to change my rates.. what would I need to do for it to still work on 6s? do i just change the 4s profile? or would I plug in a 4s battery change the rates, and then plug in a 6s and change the rates? Thanks for the help!
Why not simply use a lower pitch props on the 24-2500kv motors for lower amp draw with 6s?
Or do both, run 6s on a 5x4.3 or similar (instead of a 5x5x3) and set the profile for around 90%, so that full 6s rpm is available for a crisp tune on profile 2.
What about FC headroom where it commands more throttle than the stick for control? Will it exceed the 72%?
Yep that's the beauty in FPV you can do it however you want! This is just another way to do it. If you use lower pitched props it's not going to change the rpm. Limiting your output will allow you to actually change the rpm's. The other cool thing with this way is from 4s packs to 6s packs your tune will feel different, with the auto profile it allows you to run different PIDs and Rates per profile, which change automatically when it reads your battery's voltage.
@@DrainManFPV Honestly, really great tutorial.. good on ya, and sub'd.
A lower pitch prop will absolutely turn higher rpms at a specific input voltage while drawing fewer amps compared to a higher pitch prop on the same motor and voltage input.
The higher rpm allows a bit more fidelity and responsiveness to fc commands, a lower pitch will also spin up quicker with less amp spiking.
Lower pitch also tends to be a bit more efficient in terms of static thrust per amp (less cavitation, which also aids tuning).
My advice and perspective is to address a mechanical problem (excessive Kv) with a mechanical solution first (lower pitch) as best possible, then clean it up with electronics.
As a follow-on video, it would be real intersting to see you put the 5x4.3 and ~90% approach to the test.
one particular 6s battery(at 22.01V) won't change the profile while the rest they will (22.5V) (all brand new). Betaflight at the top will recognise it as 6s however. Anyone know a solution or why it's happening?
So do I press save or not?
Thank you, that was amaizing
thanks! just what i needed hahaha, but what about throttle limit?
You're awesome. Thanks for that.
what about the throttle limit type on 6s?should it stay OFF or change it to SCALE?
C'est une génie ce mec, merci beaucoup ! Much Love
Very cool , thanks.
thanks boss!
Followed instructions exactly. Smoked a motor on the first punch out. My flight lasted 30 seconds 😂
crazy, it worked beautifully for me
At next time check if magic number for voltage difference is set correctly, Betaflight recognize 4S and 6S batteries correctly and switch profiles accordingly. You can put Betaflight profile number on OSD for sure.
Also try to use a bit more conservative magic number for steeper pitch props. At least at first time.
Sorted now thanks. I can't remember what the problem was.
Thanks alot this is realy mindblowing...
is it possible to set up a 6s quad to 4s?
i know it works but i realy miss a lack of power...
This is actually a good question! If you strap a 4s battery to a 6s rig, you will not need to change anything as far as betaflight etc. You will just experience a major "lack of power" if this is what your going for then you'll be happy!
@@DrainManFPV Thanks! well... sounds like a 6s quad with 2500 kv motors are the best desicion for a allround powerhouse
Thanks!
I did not get why the auto settings at profile 2 to be -1... What does that mean?
Betaflight understands 0 so the count can not be 1 and then 2... 1 is actually 0 and then 2 is 1 etc.
@@DrainManFPV that was not the question. I do understand the numbering of the profiles. I don't understand why there is a third profile where you set the cell battery number as -1. You configure the profile 0 (or 1 at the GUI) as the 4S. The you configure the profile 1 (or 2 at the GUI) for the 6S.ok. But why would you need a third profile (2, or 3 at the GUI) where the auto is set to -1 cells? Why this third? Why this negative value instead of a positive number of cells?
Thanks for this info
the motors are not damaged?
That is brilliant! How in the hell did you learn all this stuff? Thank you for this!!
Thanks! Glad to help, it's not me who did it, it's betaflight! Lol
DrainMan FPV - Yeah, but damn, you are sharp on all this stuff! I could ask you a million questions on things that I don’t understand, and can’t find answers to, but, I’ll just keep wathching!
@@3eggerfpv397 haha that's awesome! Thanks Steve!
So, if you have 2400 kv motors, reduce power going to the motors from a 6s pack like you showed. Does it still cost more amps per kv. Or is it as efficient as an actual 1750 kv motor on 6s?
I have not hooked it up to a meter and tested it, but that's the idea
awesome thanks needed this info
I'm guessing on 6s you would get improved flight times too. Right?
Yes. Ohms Law. P=IV
So can this same command be used to fly a 6s quad with a 4s battery? Or would that be bad for the motors?
Great Video, i came back from FalcoX and want to use it on Betaflight too. Does this work on 4.2.0 also this way?
Im in the new BF and Its not letting me do " set auto_profile_cell_count = 4 "
Does anyone know how this relates to efficiency? If there isn’t much of a loss, wouldn’t it make sense to do all builds like this to have the extra versatility?
good job my friend bt now do this same with INAV :)
Ooooo yaaa thank you now I'm moving to 6s
thank's ;)
Freaking awesome!!!
Question: Can I do the reverse and if yes, do I have to configure some stuff as well?
I've got a 6s build and a 4s Li-ion pack that I'm thinking about using on my 6s for long range, would this be possible? I've got 1750Kv motors on my 6s. Thanks.
Unlikely. Because the maximum motor output percentage is 100%. In the video he showed, it is considered as limiting the motor output to 72%. What you are asking is like how to overclock your 1750kv motors to spin even faster, which will probably damage your motors. Stay safe. Cheers!