I never realized how emotionally attached I could be to a random mod that turned into one of the most beautiful things I’ve experienced, goddamn seeing the 2015 shutdown letter again hurt. Fantastic video, I learned a ton
Lyn has been my mission for a very long time. It is my #1 goal and I will do everything in my power to ensure she has the same treatment as knuckles. Slowly, Cobalt lyn makes progress. Slowly, Remix Isaac makes progress. I dont know if we can do things as well as they did..but we have to try don't we..?
I remember playing PM for the first time with a Skull kid shirt on hoping he would be added not knowing he was actually considered. I'd pay so much money to add him to the game. Those puppet looking animations are such the vibe and he would of course have to be floaty or at least the ability to float and hover.
@@ZaZen___KingBob teased Skull Kid too and IDK if he quit modding. Fingers crossed he didn’t, the quality of his mods is close to PM’s (minus balancing). He’s a talented CGI animator who has made trailers for his mods, and they reached high view counts.
I’ve been watching your Smash Bros content for the past month and it really makes me wish I could make scripted videos. I want to make a full in-depth video on a Flash platform fighting game called Newgrounds Rumble. It was the indie smash bros game people wanted but made 15 years ago. The fact that Newgrounds Rumble was made during the same time when Super Smash Flash 1 and early 2 was released show how well the game has aged really well. It was impressive that a small group of devs were able to achieve something like this in Flash back in the early 2000s. However, there was a ton of cut content such as the game originally planned to be played similar to Melee with Melee mechanics, online multiplayer, and cut character and stages. The info isn’t confirmed but I found them by old QnA by the programmer and from the wayback machine. I have a ton of info about the game that is lying in my computer that I want to show but I don’t know how to show it to many people.
Amazing video, I love the history behind cut PM content and the reason why I mod is to see the next steps in those characters. Love what you do here man.
@@ZachHonest lol, you probably already know from the Serra pink Lyn recolor I saw in the video but my love for Erk made me include him as a Lyn Swordmaster recolor when I created the new Lyn recolors.
The idea of adding not only another member of an overrepresented franchise, but one that is also a clone should revolt me. Yet somehow I find Raichu kind of compelling. Another fan suggestion from back in the day that I remember kind of wanting was an ICs type duo of Plusle and Minun. People used to think they had been planned for Brawl, and it’s a shame that the character duo system is only used in a single fighter.
>rumors that the concept Sami was going to be abandoned by the team before the development ceased every few years I get hurt by new information relative to the forbidden 4.
I wish we could have seen these things in p plus but I was glad to get pm remix to try Isaac out(btw knuckles is fun af) and I can't wait for the next video,good work out there👍
Great work as usual. Love seeing the PM Development lore. It would be interesting to see a video documenting the other cut content, would you ever consider that? It would be interesting to see what exactly got into P+ like Bowser's fireball or some of the costumes and what never saw the light of day.
@@ZachHonest I was thinking just about everything but the characters. Stages, costumes, major move set changes/balances. Exactly just how much stuff had been leaked/rumored? Too much for one video?
I love these cutting room floor type vids, I wish people still would do stuff with Lyn, Isaac and Sami, P+ got its roses for adding Knuckles and reinvigorating the fanbase but there seems to be no new characters despite this :(
Knuckles added to the moderate amount of controversy that surrounded P+, the regions who didn’t want to adopt it felt like it had changes they had no say in. At the end of PM development the game had been around enough for the players to had gotten very accustomed to an increasingly static game, their main priority since then has been to develop the metagame. When you play at a competitive level every little detail is important, changing something means readjusting player habits and metagames that are increasingly becoming set in stone. The PM community at large eventually accepted the small changes of P+ and yet another matchup that is Knuckles but with a lot of friction.
DUDE, I would kill to play as Paper Mario man. He would literally be my main. Maybe utilize some allies here and there in the move set, but not his entire move set, or he might as well be: Watch As My Friends Do My Heavy Lifting: The Character. I want him to do stuff himself for the most part, and his Final Smash can utilize all his friends who sacrifices themselves at the end of his games. If you have him use his allies too much, there’s NO WAY those moves utilizing them won’t be laggy or jank. But in all, I would literally co-main him with Sonic if he were a character. Good video showing us everything planned, because alot of these characters would’ve be cool in PM. Keep up the superior work, Honest!
"Charizard and Dedede" you know ... seems kinda poetic since Charizard had a Ridley Skin AND was used to port the space pirate into smash Krool literally has King Dedede faking as him in the smash trailer. God Smash Bros is such a cool game even with the community ... most of the time
Man, I remember back when these leaks happened. I ended up getting a hold of a leaked early build. Knuckles was so fun, and Lyn showed potential to be a fun character. I was so sad that PM got discontinued, and I thought I would never play a complete version of those characters. I was so hyped when P+ announced they were gonna add a completed Knuckles. He turned out really fun too. In terms of the rumors, I heard the creator of that one PM Ridley mod actually pitched that to the PMDT, but they rejected it because a good chunk of the team didn't think Ridley could work in Smash (remember this was pre-Ultimate, so "Ridley's too big" was still a thing). I also heard the creator of the Waluigi mod also pitched his mod to the team, but got rejected because they thought the moveset wasn't faithful enough to the character. Idk how true those stories are, but I feel like I saw them before back in the day.
Project M almost has a bigger place in my heart than my first ever Smash game. I like watching your Smash Bros. Brawl content overall like tier lists because of your editing and HDR, etc.
@@necrom4454 PMEX is more of a collection of mods, meanwhile PM an P+ have a development team with their own unique mods. PMEX could not really work for competitive play because of the vast amount of unfinished characters in the roster. It's still a really fun mod though!
PMEX is still just a lot of incomplete character mods, the only good ones made by other dev teams like the LEGACYXP characters (kinda screwed up by the PMEX team) and the 1:1 imports from ultimate @@necrom4454 Those few really well done character mods are the ones that make me want to play the mod and the large variety of stages and music, but it's still a loss since i'm technically downloading a 10gb mod for just like 15 characters out of the 60+ custom characters.
PM/P+ is more than just a mod, it contains too much custom content and the gameplay is so different from Brawl that it is its own game. A game that went on to be bigger than other platform fighters. And it is without question important enough to have its development documented, I thank you for going through the trouble. I remember when the PMDT said it was over and the programmer leaked a lot of what they had worked on. He and other developers spoke about the strange nature of the cancellation and the behind the scenes information they knew. I knew some stuff but I can’t believe what you’ve managed to find! Assets for Skull Kid, Dixie Kong and Dark Samus, is this stuff even real?? Back when the ex developers were spilling the beans I wanted to ask them to share more about what got scrapped because there was never that much interest among the PM player base, most just wanted to talk about the drama surrounding the end of the game. Didn’t do so because I was kind of intimidated. The developers and players can be so smart, I don't know and understand the game as intricately as they do. I still have some regrets that I did not ask the developers to share more of what was cut, and I am glad that someone finally did.
12:34 after a year the Project M Remix team backported K Rool from Ultimate to Project M. Not to mention stuff like Black Shadow coming in before then and Ridley having a original move set from his Ultimate one also for a few years now (I don’t know how many years it’s been).
It's a shame we'll never really know what would have happened with these characters if it wasn't for nintendo. The community has been amazing taking matters into their own hands, though; here's hoping P+ keeps reviving 'em.
I'm so sad Dark Samus had the chance of having a unique moveset made by the PM devs, that's one character I wanted since the pre-Brawl days and her Ultimate appareance is bittersweet because she's just a clone.
Dunno if you know about it, but the modder KingJigglypuff has been leading a group in developing a fully original Dark Samus moveset for a while. They were regularly posting clips of DS and their other current project, Sceptile, on social media. Updates have been more sparse as of late, but they definitely are still working on them.
to be completely honest I'm still like wtf Nintendo for not adding in Skullkid as a playable character in Smash Ultimate like they brought back Young Link even the Majora's Mask stage like they should have gave Young Link his Majora's Mask model and added Skull Kid but the main problem probably would have been making a moveset for Skull Kid
Project+ is so good, but at the same time it's so sad that the P+DT is so focused on not adding new characters along Knuckles. It would be so cool if they gave their new perspectives and level of polishment and detail to the concepts that we already have.
Funny that my PMEX REMIX Black Shadow was originally also just Melee Dorf before inevitably receiving an original moveset! was not aware the PMDT had similar concepts. At least Deathborn kinda went back to that idea in spirit but even he deviates quite a bit idk, Melee Dorf as a concept might just be forever cursed to become more original no matter what character is his vessel at the time 🤣
The only way to have done Samoiis if she had mechanics like Steve where she's just playing a WHOLE other game as the real fight is going on. Even Sakurai would have trouble doing something like that :P
Out of all the characters, Sami hurt the most to me because the model looked awesome, I was maining Snake at the time so a twist to the moveset would've been cool for me, Advance Wars representation would've been amazing, and just the other 3 didnt atract me as much as Sami in terms of design and moveset, to this day I'm kinda surprised NOBODY has tried to ''revive'' her and I'm not talking in terms of integrating her to P+, but just like, a random BrawlVault mod to replace Snake, basically the Brawl moveset with the new moves that leaked, just that, like, idk compared to other characters I find it a bit more realistic to bring, hell if I had time and knew how to do ''decent'' animations I would be that person, but anyways, yea kinda weird for me that nobody aimed to finish Sami
i remember once that there was a project lost to time that tried to finish these characters, i used to have it but deleted it for another mod and i still am mad about it to this day because i cant find it archived anywhere and doing a deep search on google ever comes up with like 1 picture of the character select screen to prove im not crazy called projec silk. it was meant tobe a 3c (smash 4 art style) project m mod with a polished up moveset versions of sami, issac, lyn, and knuckles (hence the name silk)
Being honest in 9:06 skull kid and paper mario mite be in remix I alsó think about dixie Kong because in plus an remix we got black shadow, nuckles etc.
The answer is no. Even if they were to be finished (which ain't happening for a while, even Lyn remains about as incomplete as she has been eight years ago and the less is said about Sami the better), the dev team is mostly against it. It's averse enough to changes as it is (they once thought about replacing Bowser's FSmash with his punch, had a public poll in favor of it, but then decided not to do it because lol), Knuckles was like one of the few things they agreed to do.
So I'm pretty much new to all this community and.. WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT PROJECT M EX REMIX?? Like, all those characters are in there, and the game is so cool to play, better than Project + I think, so why is everyone only talking about Project M and + when there's something like Remix, I'm really confused
I’d like to see some of those characters in P+. If any of them did get in I’d say the roster should round out at least at 45 or 50 characters out of the 42 that are already in the game. The characters I’d like to see are Dark Samus, Lyn and Paper Mario if I had to pick 3
IIRC they never gave a clear reason why PM stopped, the most credible rumor of the disbandment is because some of the devs wanted to put their work in Wavedash Games instead of playing fire with copyrighted stuff, but there never was a direct C&D from Nintendo.
I never realized how emotionally attached I could be to a random mod that turned into one of the most beautiful things I’ve experienced, goddamn seeing the 2015 shutdown letter again hurt. Fantastic video, I learned a ton
Lyn has been my mission for a very long time. It is my #1 goal and I will do everything in my power to ensure she has the same treatment as knuckles. Slowly, Cobalt lyn makes progress. Slowly, Remix Isaac makes progress. I dont know if we can do things as well as they did..but we have to try don't we..?
You’re doing the lord’s work cobalt
@@p00ch58 Still making progress to this day.
I remember playing PM for the first time with a Skull kid shirt on hoping he would be added not knowing he was actually considered. I'd pay so much money to add him to the game. Those puppet looking animations are such the vibe and he would of course have to be floaty or at least the ability to float and hover.
@@ZaZen___KingBob teased Skull Kid too and IDK if he quit modding. Fingers crossed he didn’t, the quality of his mods is close to PM’s (minus balancing). He’s a talented CGI animator who has made trailers for his mods, and they reached high view counts.
I’ve been watching your Smash Bros content for the past month and it really makes me wish I could make scripted videos. I want to make a full in-depth video on a Flash platform fighting game called Newgrounds Rumble. It was the indie smash bros game people wanted but made 15 years ago. The fact that Newgrounds Rumble was made during the same time when Super Smash Flash 1 and early 2 was released show how well the game has aged really well. It was impressive that a small group of devs were able to achieve something like this in Flash back in the early 2000s. However, there was a ton of cut content such as the game originally planned to be played similar to Melee with Melee mechanics, online multiplayer, and cut character and stages. The info isn’t confirmed but I found them by old QnA by the programmer and from the wayback machine.
I have a ton of info about the game that is lying in my computer that I want to show but I don’t know how to show it to many people.
I always loved PM, and now P+. It's cool to see how much was planned for such a great mod.
I remember seeing these cut characters and being sorely disappointed that I would never see them in tournament :/
Amazing video, I love the history behind cut PM content and the reason why I mod is to see the next steps in those characters. Love what you do here man.
thanks man, love the Erk profile picture too lol
@@ZachHonest lol, you probably already know from the Serra pink Lyn recolor I saw in the video but my love for Erk made me include him as a Lyn Swordmaster recolor when I created the new Lyn recolors.
The Raichu idea sounds cool as hell
The idea of adding not only another member of an overrepresented franchise, but one that is also a clone should revolt me. Yet somehow I find Raichu kind of compelling. Another fan suggestion from back in the day that I remember kind of wanting was an ICs type duo of Plusle and Minun. People used to think they had been planned for Brawl, and it’s a shame that the character duo system is only used in a single fighter.
>rumors that the concept Sami was going to be abandoned by the team before the development ceased
every few years I get hurt by new information relative to the forbidden 4.
3:30 great song choice Zach, for anyone curious its Fuji by Vanilla
thanks
I wish we could have seen these things in p plus but I was glad to get pm remix to try Isaac out(btw knuckles is fun af) and I can't wait for the next video,good work out there👍
Great work as usual. Love seeing the PM Development lore. It would be interesting to see a video documenting the other cut content, would you ever consider that? It would be interesting to see what exactly got into P+ like Bowser's fireball or some of the costumes and what never saw the light of day.
What other cut content you thinking of, I'm curious?
@@ZachHonest I was thinking just about everything but the characters. Stages, costumes, major move set changes/balances. Exactly just how much stuff had been leaked/rumored? Too much for one video?
Finally, there's a honest dude who truly cares about the mod that changed Smash forever.
I remember you did talked about them in a individual way.
I love these cutting room floor type vids, I wish people still would do stuff with Lyn, Isaac and Sami, P+ got its roses for adding Knuckles and reinvigorating the fanbase but there seems to be no new characters despite this :(
Knuckles added to the moderate amount of controversy that surrounded P+, the regions who didn’t want to adopt it felt like it had changes they had no say in. At the end of PM development the game had been around enough for the players to had gotten very accustomed to an increasingly static game, their main priority since then has been to develop the metagame. When you play at a competitive level every little detail is important, changing something means readjusting player habits and metagames that are increasingly becoming set in stone. The PM community at large eventually accepted the small changes of P+ and yet another matchup that is Knuckles but with a lot of friction.
Banger video, HC! Really appreciating the captions, too
DUDE, I would kill to play as Paper Mario man. He would literally be my main. Maybe utilize some allies here and there in the move set, but not his entire move set, or he might as well be: Watch As My Friends Do My Heavy Lifting: The Character.
I want him to do stuff himself for the most part, and his Final Smash can utilize all his friends who sacrifices themselves at the end of his games. If you have him use his allies too much, there’s NO WAY those moves utilizing them won’t be laggy or jank. But in all, I would literally co-main him with Sonic if he were a character. Good video showing us everything planned, because alot of these characters would’ve be cool in PM. Keep up the superior work, Honest!
"Charizard and Dedede"
you know ... seems kinda poetic since Charizard had a Ridley Skin AND was used to port the space pirate into smash
Krool literally has King Dedede faking as him in the smash trailer.
God Smash Bros is such a cool game even with the community ... most of the time
Great overview of these concepts and ideas!
I thought you were a Melee only guy, I like you more now.
@@protocetid Thank you! I was pretty involved in the Brawl modding scene for several years.
Man, I remember back when these leaks happened. I ended up getting a hold of a leaked early build. Knuckles was so fun, and Lyn showed potential to be a fun character. I was so sad that PM got discontinued, and I thought I would never play a complete version of those characters. I was so hyped when P+ announced they were gonna add a completed Knuckles. He turned out really fun too. In terms of the rumors, I heard the creator of that one PM Ridley mod actually pitched that to the PMDT, but they rejected it because a good chunk of the team didn't think Ridley could work in Smash (remember this was pre-Ultimate, so "Ridley's too big" was still a thing). I also heard the creator of the Waluigi mod also pitched his mod to the team, but got rejected because they thought the moveset wasn't faithful enough to the character. Idk how true those stories are, but I feel like I saw them before back in the day.
WHAT SKULL KID AND PAPER MARIO?!?!?! Bruh I'm dead this hurts so bad
Project M almost has a bigger place in my heart than my first ever Smash game. I like watching your Smash Bros. Brawl content overall like tier lists because of your editing and HDR, etc.
Lyn would've been sick to play as in PM. Maybe one day the P+ team will add her and Issac
Lyn feels great to me in PMEX, Isaac not sooo much but he's still in development
@@alexv0714 Yeah I'm new to the community and gotta understand why nobody talks about PMEX but instead are all focused on PM and P+
@@necrom4454 PMEX is more of a collection of mods, meanwhile PM an P+ have a development team with their own unique mods. PMEX could not really work for competitive play because of the vast amount of unfinished characters in the roster. It's still a really fun mod though!
@@necrom4454Along with what the other poster mentioned P+ places balance and skillful play at the forefront, PMEX is a causal mod.
PMEX is still just a lot of incomplete character mods, the only good ones made by other dev teams like the LEGACYXP characters (kinda screwed up by the PMEX team) and the 1:1 imports from ultimate @@necrom4454
Those few really well done character mods are the ones that make me want to play the mod and the large variety of stages and music, but it's still a loss since i'm technically downloading a 10gb mod for just like 15 characters out of the 60+ custom characters.
Music at the beginning is "We're finally landing" -Home
Summoning Salt intensifies
Your best video yet!
I'm one of the two Sami fans that was excited about her possibly coming to PM 😔
PM/P+ is more than just a mod, it contains too much custom content and the gameplay is so different from Brawl that it is its own game. A game that went on to be bigger than other platform fighters. And it is without question important enough to have its development documented, I thank you for going through the trouble. I remember when the PMDT said it was over and the programmer leaked a lot of what they had worked on.
He and other developers spoke about the strange nature of the cancellation and the behind the scenes information they knew. I knew some stuff but I can’t believe what you’ve managed to find! Assets for Skull Kid, Dixie Kong and Dark Samus, is this stuff even real?? Back when the ex developers were spilling the beans I wanted to ask them to share more about what got scrapped because there was never that much interest among the PM player base, most just wanted to talk about the drama surrounding the end of the game. Didn’t do so because I was kind of intimidated. The developers and players can be so smart, I don't know and understand the game as intricately as they do. I still have some regrets that I did not ask the developers to share more of what was cut, and I am glad that someone finally did.
12:34 after a year the Project M Remix team backported K Rool from Ultimate to Project M.
Not to mention stuff like Black Shadow coming in before then and Ridley having a original move set from his Ultimate one also for a few years now (I don’t know how many years it’s been).
Love the video man, from the editing to the info just great job:)
They should add Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Geno, Blastoize, Young Link, Pichu, Plusle & Minum
At least we have EX Remix and Beyond Melee to fill the voids
Oh man skull kid looks so cool, wish he got the chance to be made
It's a shame we'll never really know what would have happened with these characters if it wasn't for nintendo.
The community has been amazing taking matters into their own hands, though; here's hoping P+ keeps reviving 'em.
I'm so sad Dark Samus had the chance of having a unique moveset made by the PM devs, that's one character I wanted since the pre-Brawl days and her Ultimate appareance is bittersweet because she's just a clone.
Dunno if you know about it, but the modder KingJigglypuff has been leading a group in developing a fully original Dark Samus moveset for a while. They were regularly posting clips of DS and their other current project, Sceptile, on social media. Updates have been more sparse as of late, but they definitely are still working on them.
to be completely honest I'm still like wtf Nintendo for not adding in Skullkid as a playable character in Smash Ultimate like they brought back Young Link even the Majora's Mask stage like they should have gave Young Link his Majora's Mask model and added Skull Kid but the main problem probably would have been making a moveset for Skull Kid
Project+ is so good, but at the same time it's so sad that the P+DT is so focused on not adding new characters along Knuckles. It would be so cool if they gave their new perspectives and level of polishment and detail to the concepts that we already have.
Funny that my PMEX REMIX Black Shadow was originally also just Melee Dorf before inevitably receiving an original moveset! was not aware the PMDT had similar concepts. At least Deathborn kinda went back to that idea in spirit but even he deviates quite a bit idk, Melee Dorf as a concept might just be forever cursed to become more original no matter what character is his vessel at the time 🤣
The only way to have done Samoiis if she had mechanics like Steve where she's just playing a WHOLE other game as the real fight is going on. Even Sakurai would have trouble doing something like that :P
Great video I also wanted Paper Mario to be added to Smash, the art style is so pleasant and there are so many ally moves to choose from
Out of all the characters, Sami hurt the most to me because the model looked awesome, I was maining Snake at the time so a twist to the moveset would've been cool for me, Advance Wars representation would've been amazing, and just the other 3 didnt atract me as much as Sami in terms of design and moveset, to this day I'm kinda surprised NOBODY has tried to ''revive'' her and I'm not talking in terms of integrating her to P+, but just like, a random BrawlVault mod to replace Snake, basically the Brawl moveset with the new moves that leaked, just that, like, idk compared to other characters I find it a bit more realistic to bring, hell if I had time and knew how to do ''decent'' animations I would be that person, but anyways, yea kinda weird for me that nobody aimed to finish Sami
Skull kid would have been sick
i love watching videos about games that i never played
that was cool to know
Yeah the resurgence of brawl modding!
i remember once that there was a project lost to time that tried to finish these characters, i used to have it but deleted it for another mod and i still am mad about it to this day because i cant find it archived anywhere and doing a deep search on google ever comes up with like 1 picture of the character select screen to prove im not crazy called projec silk. it was meant tobe a 3c (smash 4 art style) project m mod with a polished up moveset versions of sami, issac, lyn, and knuckles (hence the name silk)
PMEX has them all and more I think.
@@protocetid it doesnt have sami and i found it and have since archived it and updated it to p+ standard
Hello smash summoning salt
I wish Nintendo didn’t shut it down.
This mod was amazing it showed if brawl had melee mechanics
I’d Wanna see Sammy as a skin for Snake in mods since she doesn’t seem to be worked on at all anymore
This video is rad!
great video
Being honest in 9:06 skull kid and paper mario mite be in remix I alsó think about dixie Kong because in plus an remix we got black shadow, nuckles etc.
With Knuckles finally being finished for Project+, I wonder if they'll do the same with the other characters.
The answer is no. Even if they were to be finished (which ain't happening for a while, even Lyn remains about as incomplete as she has been eight years ago and the less is said about Sami the better), the dev team is mostly against it. It's averse enough to changes as it is (they once thought about replacing Bowser's FSmash with his punch, had a public poll in favor of it, but then decided not to do it because lol), Knuckles was like one of the few things they agreed to do.
So I'm pretty much new to all this community and.. WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT PROJECT M EX REMIX?? Like, all those characters are in there, and the game is so cool to play, better than Project + I think, so why is everyone only talking about Project M and + when there's something like Remix, I'm really confused
PM EX is a casual mod and P+ is highly balanced and refined for tournament play.
I’d like to see some of those characters in P+. If any of them did get in I’d say the roster should round out at least at 45 or 50 characters out of the 42 that are already in the game. The characters I’d like to see are Dark Samus, Lyn and Paper Mario if I had to pick 3
I NEED Raichu maaaan
Question at the The Story mark on this video what is the music you use
47
What's the intro song called?
Project M died for this.
By any chance do you watch summoning salt?
Yea, that's the exact song he uses.
@@ZachHonest yeah I love that song. Glad to see other people recognize him
F
i can guess &$$wad Nintendo made them break up
IIRC they never gave a clear reason why PM stopped, the most credible rumor of the disbandment is because some of the devs wanted to put their work in Wavedash Games instead of playing fire with copyrighted stuff, but there never was a direct C&D from Nintendo.
Overused music, overused subject. Typical boring UA-camr 😴
How is this video topic a overusef subject, what are the other youtubers with one video of pm cut characters
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