EOS R5 8K & 4K is IMPOSSIBLE to edit? Mac & PC Tested!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 лип 2020
- Which Mac & PC's can handle 4K MP4 & 8K RAW video editing R5?
Learn more about Storyblocks at storyblocks.com/Max
You'll need THIS PC spec for R5: geni.us/yytJTG
My Mac Pro Tested: bhpho.to/32SVICv
My MacBook Pro tested: bhpho.to/3fBO5Ub
My Razer Blade Tested: geni.us/EiqvT
Thank you to Hoang Nguyen for providing me with the EOS R5 footage! / hoangnguyen.moc
Shot with(Amazon)➡ geni.us/viUc7
Lens➡ bhpho.to/2DZerxL
Mic (Amazon)➡ geni.us/QcOuT
10% off unlimited yearly music licensing on Soundstripe (what I use for all my videos) use coupon code "Max" here: soundstripe.com?fpr=maxyuryev
In this video I test Canon EOS R5 video editing in Premiere Pro, Davinci Resolve 16, and Final Cut Pro FCX. I test 8K canon RAW, 4K 30 FPS, 4K 60FPS, and 4K 120FPS slow motion in HEVC H.264 MP4. I test a windows pc laptop, MacBook Pro, and Mac Pro. The iMac Pro or 5K iMac will definitly sturggle and if you want to use a MacBook Pro you definitly want an 8 core 16" - Наука та технологія
Learn more about Storyblocks at storyblocks.com/Max
You'll need THIS PC spec for R5: geni.us/yytJTG
My Mac Pro Tested: bhpho.to/32SVICv
My MacBook Pro tested: bhpho.to/3fBO5Ub
My Razer Blade Tested: geni.us/EiqvT
@@soulsbourne he probably doesn't have one at his disposal. These are just the computers that he currently has available to test on.
When you get the R5, can you also test with Ninja V to see if that helps with overheating
Oh you got your channel remonetized. When did that happen...I’m out of the loop
@@josephyang3260 did he? Congratulations Max!! Hope you did!
Fun video Max! I shoot only in ProRes and H265 (Zcam, Canon, GH5, Atomos) and the only machine that can edit this fine is a PC with an AMD CPU (Ryzen from 3950 or up to 3990 if you have $$) + Nvidia 2080Ti GPU (you can easily build a good one for $3k). Premiere has now the Nvidia Cuda GPU acceleration for the timeline and rendering. As it is now in July 2020 there is no other way to edit comfortably 10bit/422 (until DaVinci and Finalcut get some updates), particularly with the new upcoming bombs R5 and A7S.
I'm not a hater, I have a 2018 Macbook pro and a 2019 iMac but I gave them to my kids. Unfortunately I don't see Apple coming back in the game anytime soon as they made the wrong choices going with Intel for the CPU and AMD for the GPUs...
If you haven't seen it yet, Gerald's video on this topic: ua-cam.com/video/1KOG5tyLHLs/v-deo.html
2010 Can it play Crysis
2020 Can it play R5 footage
I almost spit my drink out when I read this comment... lol
Accuracy 😂😂😂
xD
@@PinkstonFilms Same here ... great comment 😂
I don’t wanna say anything but I just bought crysis on a nintendo switch, so... I think we’re past that point bro 😂
this is how i've been editing footage for years with my garbage laptops. welcome.
How?
Lmao
That’s 90% of photographers and video shooters...
I have 2 friends in the business and they edit all their stuff on 2015 macbook pro with an i5!
That was kinda my main argument when they crying about the overheating started, people don’t even know what they’re talking about...
Really without Proxies?
Hahahahahaha
Apple : Our Mac Pro will make you feel like a professional
Canon : Hold my beer
lol more like hold my camera :D
Hey I m not a teenager
It’s Time to using Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core
So if the R5 doesn't overheat when shooting, your computer will when editing! Yes- that's the video I needed to see - thank you!
The codec makes all the difference. Uncompressed footage, despite the size, is less work on the system. It doesn't have to decompress on the fly. My Razer 15 plays back ProRes Raw 4444 and 422 HQ 10BIT Without skipping a beat. Great video. This was much needed.
This. It 1x1
Why are non of these brands giving us Prores?
@@JamesDBuzzard Nikon Z6
@@EndyMuhardin that is what I'm using. The files are very easy to work with.
@@JamesDBuzzard It probably requires a licence from Apple (who created ProRes). Companies like Atomos have these, but few camera manufacturers support it in-camera.
As I mentioned previously some time go, I was pretty sure that this H.265 10-bit codec would be an absolute nightmare to edit, has a beautiful image quality and lot of latitude indeed but it’s very difficult to handle for most computers, even when using powerful workstations as I do, the amount of processing power needed for a proper editing experience is really, really high.
And that’s not even including color grading, masks, speed ramps, fxs or several streams on real world projects...
Because 8K RAW is a less compressed codec than H.265, it’s actually easier for a computer to handle despite the higher resolution, but the files size are huge and storage will get pricey very quickly.
Fun video to watch though, greetings
What in your mind would be needed to just get the job done PC spec wise? Genuinely curious.
You are absolutely spot-on! I knew this would be an issue when it was advertised that the codec is H265. I have edited on FCPX H265 and it is complete frustration. And yes, try to color grade it and add some effects, you might as well throw the computer out the window, or get a $20K macPro, which is probably the only machine capable to handle H265 smoothly
Simply transcode into Prores before editing, it's fast and so much easier than to directly work on H265 files.
not all h.265 are the same, i do use 10 bit 265 and no issues (pana)
@@gamerjack5612 Here's the issue though why spend $4000 for a body that you'll have to end up making proxies or transcode footage just to begin editing? As creatives you spend money to make your job easier (most of the time) this is counter productive to me. Especially when there are much better options out there.
This is the video we definitely needed.
You're an idiot.
Easier to edit 12K Blackmagic RAW than 4K Canon Raw.
LOL
Actually that is true LOL.
@@MaksimYuryev that's insaneeeeeee wow lol
Canon RAW was not the problem. It was All-I. I thought 8 K RAW would be the problem.
Canon reserves the good codecs for their cinema line. I edit the c200 4k raw easier than the 80d 1080p 8bit.
So the final price of the Canon R5 is $US20,000?
4k
@@LukeSchaeferFilms that really went over your head didn't it?
@@puggsincyberspace $3899
Underrated comment. Here’s a thumbs up.
You forgot to ad $25 for the external fan! 🤣🤣
wow..proxies definitely needed here..thx for the comparison max!
Great video Max. Thanks for the indepth tests
Not only is the R5 future proof, it's also edit proof. 💥✨😁
THANK YOU, been waiting for your take on this ... OMG, I need Threadripper 3970 + Titan for R5 editing?
Transcode the footage into something that works on your current system.
thanks for this test!
Always down to earth Max. Thank you.
This is the most underrated channel I've ever seen
This is the most underrated comment I've ever seen
Max Yuryev is absolutely the best in his field. Welcome to one of the best most reliable channels for videographers
just to add my own experience editing 8k non-raw R5 footage with a 2019 MBP, the editing was fine, even with the internal GPU. But rendering was a nightmare. With my top-end eGPU it took 8 hours to render a 20 minute video (only half of which was 8k).
Hey Tony! Wow that is taking forever! I found out why editing was so slow for me on all of these computers from a high end software engineer that works on one of these editing programs. It’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon is using. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like Fujifilm and Panasonic went with, even S1H 6K) it would edit much much easier. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit which is what some people commented about. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s get much tougher to edit and also much longer to render. Still, this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
That's because of the amount of Toneh in the images 🤯
@@MaksimYuryev how do you know it was Tony and not Chelsea?
@@MaksimYuryev You can face the same issue with xt3's h.265 files also, until our software's optimize to handle h.265 we still have the option of transcoding our footage. I know it can become tedious but it's not the end of the world!
@@cristianmk hahaha
Well done max...it was so useful we need these videos 👏👏👏
Thank you for the great video as always Max! I literally got the Blackmagic Pocket 6K on the announcement day of the R5, and now I'm very happy filming with the BMPCC 6K and editing its footage with no problem at all with my 16 inch MacBook Pro. 12-bit 6K BRaw and 10-bit 422 ProRes are such a strong codec to work with compare to my experience with my previous Canon EOS R. I thought the R5 will be similar to or better than the BMPCC 6K, but too bad it is not at this moment (hopefully a software update can fix it in the future). Some times I miss the Canon auto focus, but I learned how to manually focus a lot better after getting the BMPCC 6K. It's almost like getting a manual car so you learned how to drive manual. Today I learned a lot more about video codec after watching this video, thank you Max!
Just the video looking for👍
So many videos on the R5 by people like Peter McKinnon and Matti Haapoja showing this footage and editing but not a single mention of the fact that the H.265 codec out of the R5 is basically impossible for 99% of computers to handle. On the other hand, there's no issue transcoding this to ProRes if necessary, right? Why didn't you mention that Max? lol
That's because it's not. I have that same footage (4k 120 of girl on the bike) and edited in Resolve Studio on my 2015 iMac (i7) and with a few colour nodes, and 1/2 res, it played back smoothly. Don't always believe what you see, try it for yourself. I was editing from the fast internal SSD so I suspect Max's issue has to do with a hard drive bottleneck (could be wrong).
77dris probably, the fact that some of those footages basically play back the same even when downsampling to a lower playback resolution might hint at what you say. The footage has to be read in full anyways before being able to give you a lower render.
But at the same time, some footage was running slower on the downsampled version than the full 1:1 version.
@AllGoodThingsNetwork he does point out at the very very end: “plan on transcoding, plan on making proxies”, etc. Basically FinalCut’s default behavior when freshly installed.
I like your video, very technical!
Thanks alot sir that was really helpful video really appreciated
The H.265 clips are going to be a problem with older GPUs because they don't support 4:2:2 HEVC. You need a newer rtx video card. Otherwise your CPU is going to be doing all the heavy lifting. I guess this is why fuji settled for 4:2:0
I’m just shocked that you’re the only one that knows about this...
@@marilyto developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix
Well, the RTX5000 in the Razer Blade should've been able to handle it, but it wasn't...
Unfortunately my RTX2080TI does support HEVC 4:2:0 and HEVC 4:4:4... but doesn't support HEVC 4:2:2... 😢 There is something about 4:2:2, that they don't support it. What a bummer. So the C-Log clips stutter like hell on my machine too.
Alex Wtf is that bs
Please show how long it will take to trans-code to other RAW formats.
You can’t transcode to another raw format. You’d be transcoding to ProRes, DNxHR, or Cineform which are all highly efficient but compressed formats.
Great, thanks for that.
Wow, surprising results!
We need the Power Stone 💎
Compressed video is always an annoying prick to handle, especially H.265.
In Resolve, under Decode Options, do you have "Decode H.264/H.265 using hardware acceleration" checked?
Yes. I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic even S1H 6K) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
@@MaksimYuryev Looked for this comment. Glad you found it. You have to transcode.
I needed to see this. As a photographer/videographer you put so much energy into picking the right camera but don’t put into account that you have to be able to edit it . I don’t know how to trans code so I need a camera that I can shoot and easily edit the footage at a high quality
Amazing helpful video Thanks
I did the same tests in the last two weeks, but only on Windows PC's. I found pretty much the same thing. No laptop seems powerful enough at the moment because the Canon RAW codec looks to be only using the CPU, not GPU, so laptop CPUs just can't cut it. That being said, I can get good playback in Resolve on a Ryzen 3900X with only a GTX 1060 6GB without optimized media - a setup with 32GB RAM and a 2TB NVMe drive for around $1200. I assume that you're using Resolve Studio, which has hardware optimizations for H.265. Also, don't forget that supported does not equal optimized. I suspect Canon will release an improved SDK soon, otherwise people are going to avoid buying the camera because it's so compute intensive to edit and color.
They're releasing lower bit-rate recording options too apparently.
Can you please try this on the AMD Threadripper PC you have?
This is nonsense in 2020 to edit on anything else than a PC with AMD multi-core CPUs and the new Nvidia Cuda acceleration for the timeline in Premiere.
Did you select “smart” under playback settings in Davinci?
The quality was amazing
What about the iPad Pro 2020?
The files are playable, but don’t try to edit there, it will burn your hands.
Максим, спасибо большое! Нужно ждать 11 поколение от Intel для поддержки декодирования 10 бит 4:2:2 или новое поколение видео карт.
I couldn't help but laughing when you said you would be shooting 8k raw only. I could feel the heat in advance all the way from Brazil!
Diggin the beard!
That's why I got my Blackmagic Pocket, braw and prores internal, post production is perfect :)
it’s a crime that B Raw is not talked about more.
The next video should be, explaining the Why? I have faith in your technical knowledge.
I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic even S1H 6K) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
@@MaksimYuryev Great...I knew you would figure it out. It is in your nature, just like Gerald Undone. Still, it doesn't explain why the Macbook Pro did better than the other two computers on the RAW video files. I am looking forward to your new video, explaining your findings. Other UA-camrs like the Ordinary Filmmaker are already bashing you for telling "half-truths" by not letting FCPX do its usual background transcoding to ProRes.
You are the BEST!
Thanks a lot Max. Very important info. Before of you nobody pay attention.. Every time enjoy your professionalism and highly recommend subscribe to you channel
I don't know what is going on with your systems but I know someone who download the footage and he had no problem with smooth playback and editing in Ppro
He probably downloaded 8 bit not 10.
Max Yuryev your problem is your Mac Pro has only 32 gigs of memory. You need at least 64
RghRider my Mac Pro has 192GB of Ram. The graphics card has 32GB.
Me : Iam going to edit 8K Footage
My 5years Old PC : Good Luck
Excellent video! You are the man! This video just pushed up the value of the EOS R and will bring down the price of the R5 after frustration sets in and the the new cameras are returned back to the store.
Would love to see this test with the new ARM macs in the fall
So the new cripple hammer is the codec
Since i saw the R6 codec is only IPB I knew something fishy is going on
@@Mo.Alsir85 All-I has been announced to the R6... so much for that theory, eh?
77dris its not announced yet its only rumours from canonrumours web page not official canon site. and canon japan official site said they (may) add ALL-I to the R6 in firmware update (if) they see a need for it
"I'll just shoot everything at 8K, then..." how quickly he forgets that the thing goes up in a ball of fire after 10 minutes.
Did you check " High Quality Playback" in Premiere CC? Its in your wrench pull up menu, next to your playback resolution options, makes loads of difference!
Great test! Fire up the transcoder...
Haha I love you. You answer every f*cking question I ever thought about.
i think the problem is canon raw and the engineer need more time for optimizing the software , max did you sold the threadripper build? i wish you could have tested the footage on it.
I'm thinking they are still going to optimize on both canon's end and the editors end.
Hi Max, thanks for the video. What software are you using to see the CPU and GPU usage while testing the footage?
downloaded that same 4k 120 10 bit footage last week and tested it on my 5 year old iMac (i7, 24GB, 4G GPU) and had no issues with it at all (1/2 res, Davinci Resolve Studio).
I'm thinking he botched something with his files/storage. Seems odd how I got way better performance.
Mr. Pervert i think he tried so much to make the canon looked bad :D , i think the r5 scares sony users that most reviews talk mostly on its video side which tbh is a great feature , but forgot it has an amazing photo specs and it performs great as well
Where did you download it? I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
Some people have downloaded re incoded footage that’s different or other 8 bit footage and that does better.
Seems Canon has done something with its codec that writes the footage, looks clearly like a bug vs pushing the limits of the machines
No, it's H265. Most of today's computers won't be able t handle it for editing.
no, just the nature of things, it's 4k, 10bit h265 footage with high bitrate.
@@brankokosteski No, it's H265. As someone else said, the newer RTX graphic card can handle H265 10-bit. The older GTX can't. That's why his CPU was at 100% and the graphic card wasn't being used.
Evi Tthought I agree, but the resolution and bit depth don’t help either.
@@evitthought9641 thanks a lot for this comment!, which rtx u prefer?
Try the same tests and apps on Windows and Mac AFTER transcoding the footage to the ProRes Codec. The problem is the codec Canon uses.
This. Transcode to ProRes, accelerate the the workflow and edit without issue. On the Mac Pro with an After Burner it wouldn't even blink at these files. There's just no reason to try to edit the HEVC files natively.
Great video! What are you using to monitor the CPU and memory usage up in the toolbar?
I wanna shout really loud: "fake news!" "fake news!" but then I remember Max is one of the honest UA-camrs on earth (Tears)
I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic even S1H 6K) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
@@MaksimYuryev Thanks for the update. The lack of hardware decoding, the overheating reported by Tony Northrup (and now Gerald Undone - reporting it overheats while taking stills - and you can't switch to video recording after shooting stills) - all that shows that Canon's cripple hammer is alive, well, and stronger than ever ;)
@@nagual2335 It makes you wonder why Canon would come up with an 8K camera in the first place when they can't make a proper C4K camera (at least a Sony A7III equivalent). Canon has everything to win to conquer the prosumer market with just 4K60 with full sensor readout (but in 10bit). The R6 could be just that but even that camera overheats (the fact it can overheat in 4K where the competition does not is bad sign anyway).
I guess it's codec problem, somehow all PCs are not able to handle that.
No, he comparing systems that have different levels of power, the OS has nothing to do with it.
I have to Convert/Transcode 10bit outta the 1DXIII or will be total shit playback. If converting to ProRes, then it's fine overall, or way way better.
Also just need a ton of VRAM usually / higher end GPU. If want to see / playback in 4K + Res. At least in Resolve. Premiere may need better CPU or both.
@@Tugela60 I'm not talking about OS, what I mean "pc" is all personal computer.
Correct, canons codec has always been general crappy.
@@ChrisParayno It is not a problem with the codec, it is a problem with the computers hardware encoder. It is not compatible with the high spec, so it has to do decoding in software. This is quite similar to the issues that the first cameras using H.265 faced. At the time a lot of computer CPUs and GPUs did not have the hardware to decode it, forcing editing to use software decoding, which is a lot slower.
I saw your video and I also found this sample footage of 4k 120fps video. Started editing it in fcpx and it worked without any problem. My Mac Pro was about 11k. Still expensive but it works....
Hopefully all of these editing suites will update and optimize with this camera's footage.
I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
Ok. So I just downloaded the 8k RAW Files that Max used. I also downloaded the 4K Files with the lady with sunglasses on the beach. They are 4k H.265 slowed down by the camera. I put them into Resolve on my 2019 MacPro with 16 Cores, and 128GB Memory. I have the Vega Pro 2 Card. I was able to put them on a 4k Timeline and was able to easily skim the whole timeline immediately. I also was able to play any of the files immediately with no frame drops in the entire timeline The whole timeline of the 8K Raw clips, and the 4k H.265 clips is about 4 and 1/2 minutes. It was perfectly smooth. Maybe because I have the 4TB Apple internal SSD on my MacPro, and that thing is crazy fast, it is able to handle these files faster. I don't know. But, I have to say- this was simply no different than my XT-4 10Bit H.265 4.2.0 files I use everyday. Hope that helps people. Oh - And the footage is amazing. Sharp and the roll offs are incredible. The 8K Raw video is so easy to edit with the Camera Raw settings in Resolve. It's like using a high end Cinema Camera.
How much your Mac Pro costs?
Hi Rocky, can you share the full specs of your Mac Pro? I have an R5 on preorder, and have been waiting to upgrade to the MacPro.
I have a Gigabyte Aero 17 HDR laptop with 64 GB of RAM, an intel 9980 HK cpu, and an Nvidia RTX 2080-MaxQ GPU. Running Adobe with Windows 10 2004. I downloaded the 4k/120p clips they edit fine without having to pre-render the timeline. basically as easy to edit as GH5 4k/60p footage. No skipping, you can add effects no problem. The 8K RAW footage is editable but it skips frames. It plays "ok" but it stutters a bit. You can edit it without pre-rendering if you don't mind the frame skipping. I downloaded some 8K 24p ALL-I footage from cameralabs.com eos R5 review. It's a nightmare you can't do anything with it. It plays about 1 frame every 5 secs or so and really makes adobe choke. If you pre-render the timeline segment it plays fine, it only takes a few seconds to render in adobe. But every time you add an effect you have to render in/out that clip again. So the 8K ALL-I and presumably the IPB are the real nightmares. Everything else edits fine using a high end PC.
Von Darnell It’s the 2109 16 core model. It has 128GB of Ram, 4TB Apple Ssd, Radeon Pro Vega 2 with 32 gb memory. I also ran this on my 2020 16 inch MacBook Pro with the 8 core intel i9 chip and the 5600M video card, and it needed about 60 seconds to render the files on the 4 minute timeline and it played it perfectly as well. These are my experiences. In addition, Camera Labs has an 8k 25P all intra h.265 file available for download on its website, and that plays and is editable pretty quickly on both of my systems in Resolve. Bottom line, at least for me all of these files performed perfectly reasonably on my systems. Not much different than I see with my Fuji 10bit h.265 4K files.
Rocky Cola wait it needed 60 seconds to “render” the files on your timeline? lmao, are you using the render cache / optimized media and claiming to be playing back 10bit h265 footage without problems? Not how that works. lol, it’s automatically transcoding the files for you.
That's so cpu intensive that you need one core per fps, so Better take a 32core machine for a butter smoooooth 30fps timeline 😂
Lol
I had a 3970X, it can't even play 4K H.265 in real-time.
@@frostybe3r Would the 3990x be able to? :D
@@arvinsim The problem with these CPUs is the lack of memory bandwidth, also the 3990X doesn't scale well with the additional cores.
You can transcode to something that the hardware can handle, if you have an ingestion procedure in place already and don't need to edit immediately this is not a big issue since this transcoding is usually already part of the process.
So for video do you go with the new Sony? Bigger pixels, less CPU crunch. Do I understand that correctly? BTW, I shoot Canon in the studio for stills but looking for a 120fps video camera. Thought the R5 was going to be it. You have until the end of the month to reply. :)
For $4500 cdn for a 12 MP mirrorless in 2020 that seems ridiculous. For video I'd get a dedicated cinema cam or blackmagic.
@@77dris Thanks for the input. I will have to look into that. I've got the stills covered with my 5DMKIV, but as you can see from my channel I'm new to video. I'd like a b-roll camera 4K 60fps or better yet a 4K 120fps that I can use my Mac Mini, 32gb, eGPU, in FCPX to edit. I thought the R5 was going to be it, but now I'm learning how they are downsampling the 8K which seems to be causing computers fits. If Max can't get smooth playback on his 15K Mac Pro, I don't stand a chance. Just wondering if I should cancel my R5 order.
Another critically important video. Well done, my friend.
It’s an informative video on what’s needed to process so much data. No critique whatsoever on the camera.
Darn, very disappointing to see the Cripple Hammer strike again. 🤦🏻
You can get amazing 10 bit high framerate quality with the R5/R6.... or get a Sony and deal with low bitrate, pixelized 8 bit footage that you can't grade.
77dris , I have my GH5 for a reason. 😉
@@mrheng562 there you have to deal with tiny sensor
MikedieONE , it’s not about the size. It’s how you use the tool.
Damn, H265 is always tough but this is crazy, thought the T2 chip would have helped, but no. Thanks for the info.
T2 should help in the rendering process not the editing, cause It can you use it's transcoding power to support the cpu
antonio_desanto ah yeah, good point.
Canon has to fix this when camera comes out. This is diffidently a bug.
I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic even S1H 6K) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
Does this mean the same is going to happen with the r6?
Hi Max, what sofware are you using to see CPU and GPU performance? Thanks in advance!
Wow credit needs to be given to canon. It amazing they have the processors than can even write those files to the camera. Black magic raw codec should become the standard codec for these new cameras. It seems to be the most efficient codec of them all! Execellent video! C300 marklll seems the best camera from canon to get for video. Best codec, 10bit, file size and frame rates.
Canon RAW lite is not so bad. Canon RAW is notorious, but he was struggling with All-I
@@robertm3951 Exactly. Its the ALL-i that is the problem.
There has to be an update coming to fix this. I mean you edit Red Raw and C200 raw easy.
There has to be man. The fact that a 15 thousand dollar computer can’t handle the footage perfectly is definitely a problem. I feel like shit and I just spent 4 grand on a MacBook Pro.
@@johansermartinez9287 I feel like shit too, im just looking at upgrading my laptop
Johanser Martinez
Don’t get a macbook next time.
Get a proper editing machine.
Download test footage and see for yourself what is going to take to edit the files.
Unless they plan on adding 4K raw, good luck...
I'm talking about an update to the software, not camera. It looks like its not using the graphics card.
Max, I am looking forward to more videos on this subject and your findings on why the Macbook Pro did better than the Mac Pro on these tests. I am still confused.
H265 is a nightmare in general. I can't get gopro footage to play back on an iMac pro smoothly. I always transcode or proxy to prores.
H.265 editing is just not realistic for most people
The 4K 10 Bit H265 footage of my mavic 2 pro runs smoothly so it seems it's not the codec itself but how canon uses it. I am not an expert in codec science but the results are obviously very different.
@@hcl8836 It's the bitrate.
I got it figured out. I found out it’s the 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 codec causing this because there is no CPU or GPU that has hardware decoding for that one specific codec Canon decided to use. If it was literally anything else such as h.264 or 10 bit 4:4:4 or 10 bit 4:2:0 (like fujifilm or Panasonic even S1H 6K) it would edit super smoothly. Right now you can get typical smooth editing as long as you are shooting 8 bit instead of 10 bit. That also means you can’t shoot C-LOG or HDR PQ as that’s 10bit only (which means 10.5 stops of dynamic range with normal profiles) on this camera. Go to 10 bit and it’s this tough. Still this is good news for those who don’t need great dynamic range or to push the files when color grading.
No problem with h.265 4K 120 fps 10 bit in my ZCAM E2. All working on Macbook Pro 2014.
Vadim Verenitsyn 4:2:0?
8k 24fps raw is easier to edit than 4k 60fps from this camera, HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE???
@@tayo5302 well I suppose that makes sense, still that kind of makes me feel bad for the people who plan on buying the A7s3 when that comes out, since it will have 4k 120fps in Raw if rumors are to believed
Steven McSteveington i bet sony has better codecs
@@castielvargastv7931 if they plan on offering 4k 120fps in Raw, I would hope they would
@@tayo5302 OK I get it, the problem is the compression, not the frame rate, I understand
@@tayo5302 great explanation!
Salute to you for even making this video. It was frustrating just watching it 😂. I'm surprised premiere didn't just freeze. I wonder how bad that 12k black magic is about to be. Great video!
Blackmagic BRAW is actually the opposite. Designed from the ground up to be easy to edit in lower-spec computers, even at 12k resolutions.
Mel Feliciano I haven't had the opportunity to edit black magic footage but that comment makes me want to. Because even 4k canon eosr files are annoying at times for me.
man, this is going to be the deciding factor on which MacBook 16" pro i'm going to buy, was gonna get the base model but i dont know if i can trust that anymore..
Wrong test. Throw all 8K and 4K 120 fps in a iPadPro 2018 or 2020 in Lumafusion 😂. Please test it. I think it could “work” (in a 4K timeline of course).
So Canon put codecs that require pro level computer in a "consumer" level camera
That's going to disappoint many ignorant peeps :v
I mean, the only way to get 10-bit 4:2:2 HEVC is to record in either C-Log or HDR modes. Otherwise it’ll record in 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264, aka the default settings that a typical consumer would use.
Are you sure? I thought 10 bit is available in all modes based ok Canons data sheet.
"Consumer" cameras don't cost almost 4K. A rebel with a kit lens is consumer. This is definitely a pro cam.
Max Yuryev According to Canon’s sheet if you film outside CLog or HDR, it’s 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264, like all the previous Canon cameras
Jose Argumedo 8-bit sucks if you value the tonal range of colors in a scene. Either way a pretty picture is just a pretty picture. For video, it all starts with story.
I just played around with the 4k120 sample on my gaming notebook (i7 9750h, 64gb ram, rtx 2070 8gb vram). The h265 file directly from Canon was a nightmare to do anything with it. I then used Adobe Media Encoder 2019 (not 2020! doesn't support 120fps...) to convert the file to ProRes 422 HQ and it plays back perfectly smooth in Davinci Resolve. Not perfect, but maybe conversion to ProRes just needs to become part of the video workflow when using the R5.
I am pretty sure there will be updates to sort all these issues out.
Dude....even on the Mac Pro???
I know right.. I has to be the fact that its HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2. I have no problems with the HEVC 10 Bit 4:2:0 files from the XT4.
@@MaksimYuryev Agreed. My 2019 MacPro rips through that Fuji 10bit 4.2.0 stuff like nothing
Sidney Diongzon Yeah... But just check the “Create Optimised Media” checkbox in Final Cut during import and problem goes away
@@casperes0912 Yup. And if you have a MacPro or a good MacBook Pro, it will create that media pretty quickly
@@casperes0912 Yup ProRes will help a lot as long as you have time for it to transcode. I just ran some tests for you and others. My Mac Pro (12 core, Vega II) is doing about 1:1 transcoding 4K 30 10 bit into ProRes 422. So 30min of footage will take about 30 min to transcode. The 4K 60 is not as efficient, taking about 1.5 hours to transcode 30 min. Canon 8K Raw to ProRes 422 is a little bit faster than 4K 60, about 1 hour and 15 min for 30 min of media. As for the most powerful 2020 16" MacBook Pro (2.4 8 core, 5600M) it takes about twice as long for the compressed 4K and about 3x as long for the 8K raw because the GPU is limiting it. 30min of 4K 30 takes 1 hour 15min for 30min of media, 4K 60 takes 3hours 15min for 30min of footage, and 8K takes 3 hours for 30 min. The Mac pro stays silent the whole time of course, while the MacBook Pro is screaming like a jet engine the whole time and running super hot. If you have a 15" with a 4 core I would double the times mentioned maybe a little bit more.
so basically, this camera keeps getting worse?! got it!
Not really, we who work with demanding footage have seen this and are ready to tackle the issue, the $4000 camera price is the last thing you need to worry about.
been editing GH5 10bit footage for the last 2 years so i know what it feels like and i’m upgrading my computer as soon as i get the camera.
Storage and new hardware is about $6000 alone, not even counting accessories and cfxpress cards.
how is it getting worse by using more high quality codecs? just because computers cant keep up with it doesnt mean its "worse". it just means its ahead of its time.
The 4K clips are using the new h.265 compression. Double the detail and half the bitrate, 4x the processing power needed.
The good thing about demanding codecs is that it drives hardware innovation :)
Wow and people complained about the camera!! 😂😂
One more reason to pass on the R5 for video lol.
it's good that this info is coming out, this way the buyers get a full picture of what they are getting in to with R5
@@mirrorlessny you guys dont seem to understand... these are all OPTIONS! you dont HAVE to use them. there are lower options that are totally fine to use.
@@MikedieONE good point, options are important to have
That All-i format succcckkksss!! Canon cripple hammer never lose.🤣🤣
Then just use IPB. Sure beats the 8 bit low bitrates found in Sonys for example.
Possible to get some of the 4K60 clips? Want to try a local test.
You don't have to plan to make proxies, the camera can record 4k proxies to the SD card while recording to the CFExpress card
Now try exporting in 8k 🤣🤣🤣
Lets be honest, Canon codecs for video have always been horrible
lets face it, H.265 is NOT a Canon codec. Seriously? What are you even talking about.
@@ABullet520 and? Theres a diference in compressing canon footage and sony footage that will affect decompression on your computer. Canon clips are heavy for the amount of low flexibility you have in post
I've NEVER had trouble with Canon codecs, even on my older computers.
@@77dris in the studio I'm in, I edit footage from various manufactores and I can safelly say what I said before
I was expecting the 4k to be well maintained, did not expect this
Looking forward to 12K BRAW!
i'm still happy editing 1080P on my 16" MBP... 8K is "nek level" on these machines
You’re missing out bro
Artur Mavlyuchenko is he tho? 8K is way overkill for 99% of human beans
Micah Yamanaka honestly in don’t think so. I think 8k should be the standard. It lets you zoom in and keep the image quality extremely nice
am I missing out on something shooting still 1080 24p ?
semahj lamons I agree, but with most people (myself included) watching UA-cam in 720 - 1080 on their smart phone & often not on WiFi, that kind of quality is a bit much for 2020. I’m not saying that it’s unnecessary or pros, but for the masses, high bitrate 4K is substantial. You need an expensive monitor or TV to appreciate it. And trying to edit that footage would burn a hole in my MacBook 😂 hopefully soon 8K will be the new 1080 haha
A 15k Mac Pro with 192gb of RAM cannot cope with this footage? And the camera itself can overheat and be essentially out of the game after about half an hour. Remind me why any pro in their right mind would want to shoot video on the R5?
That’s an easy question. Because it can record 8k footage. Because this tiny camera can process more than a 15k 🖥. LOL
That's almost irrelevant if you can't process the footage to get it into the public domain, though. And it wasn't just the Mac which struggled in Max's test.
Goldstraw Media so then how is peter mckinnon creating footage with the R5? What about all the the upload footage of people on UA-cam creating with the R5, are they all magicians?
Makes me wonder what kinda spec we would need to do all this sort of playback on a timeline?!
Super bummer about the playback but we'll probably get some better optimization later down the road don't cha think? My plan for now is to just try and record that 4k HQ straight to the Ninja V. I'm hoping I'll get the best of all worlds with that setup. Fingers crossed!