Miller court hearing for Oxford high school shooter (Part 5)
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2023
- Day two of the Oxford High School shooter’s Miller hearing is scheduled to begin Friday morning, picking up after a day of disturbing testimony and evidence shared in court.
Can’t believe how much of this hearing’s evidence has been left out of Jennifer’s trial. It doesn’t seem like a fair legal argument with so little context. This makes it crystal clear
I know! Im here because of jennifer crumbleys trial. I cannot understand how the defense got all of this, his journals and text not admissable in her hearing!
I was thinking exactly that , too
i know im here because of her trial too and now i see things way differently than i did in her trial
Exactly why I’m posting everywhere to watch this! Thats facts of this case are overwhelming and extremely disturbing!
So, instead of fighting with people over this I just sending to watch this.
This is wayyyy different than just being a busy mother with a teenage boy!
It’s unique. It’s horrifying. She needs to be charged!
@vickimaccallumvlogs I agree and I’m glad I watched this. Watching the proceedings on RA’s channel and not knowing about this, I didn’t think they had a case. As I am going through this, I’m shocked. You’re absolutely correct! I actually argued in the mother’s defense! I feel like an idiot after hearing this! I wonder why this wasn’t allowed? Is there an attorney out there who can explain why those texts between him and his mother weren’t allowed in? He indeed was asking for help! There were red flags that were ignored! How could they have not had that in the trial? I wonder how many people would change their minds after seeing this? I know I did! She lied on the stand! 🤦🏼♀️
I don't care how awful the defense paints his childhood or mental illness, nothing negates mass murder! His parents do seem culpable given the details and their inaction BUT this psycho was bound to kill at some point. His own writings prove just how sick and twisted he was long before the shooting.
This defense attorney is disgusting the way she treated the witness just goes to show she has NO empathy!
Of course, the defense has empathy, but it's not their job at that time and place. Their job is to question the witness for the defendant. There's a time and place for everything, having empathy wasn't the time and place for the defense. In court, attorneys should leave their emotions and feelings at the door before entering court.
How does she.talk TO THE JUDGE WITH SUCH DISRESPECT. He handled her like a gentleman.
Bravo 🎉to the lady DA!!
The way the defense was attacking that witness was disgusting.
I was also wondering what was the point of bringing that witness as it had nothing to do with the procedure.
Yes pure disgraceful humains been. I hope she will chill in next court date
👏👏👏
Of course, the defense has empathy, but it's not their job at that time and place. Their job is to question the witness for the defendant. There's a time and place for everything, having empathy wasn't the time and place for the defense. In court, attorneys should leave their emotions and feelings at the door before entering court.
Being a young widowed mother, left to raise my then 3 year old daughter by myself, I can say it’s been tough to juggle, a house, a kid, and a dog all on my own. I was a stay at home mother until my significant other/her father died in a tragic car accident. So I went back to work full time, juggling my daughter to my mother’s house, to friends houses, neighbors, etc. It was horrible! She would cry for me to come home all the time and I just felt so guilty that I couldn’t be there the way I wanted to be and that she didn’t have her dad here either. Everything was falling to the wayside. From the house being a disaster, to laundry piled high, bare minimum food in the house or cooked meals. It was near damn impossible working 40 hours a week and also take care of everything else.
I finally decided that I couldn’t do it anymore and needed to find a way to make a change because she deserved to at least have one parent present in her life and I was the only parent she had left. So I quit my job after the year of struggle and picked up driving for Uber & Lyft, getting to make my own schedule thus, leaving me more time to be a mother and attend to other things. Although the pay wasn’t as good as my career, it was enough to get us by. Knowing how crucial those young years of development are in children, making sacrifices to be there was more important. Those parents failed to do that. Having a personal life, working and money was more important to them. I always say I wish my daughter’s dad was here even if we weren’t together, as having the other parent to call or lean on when your child needs help is something that’s often taken for granted. There is no excuse for these parents! They only had one child and had eachother to lean on for parenting duties. They failed him miserably.
I’m thankful now that my daughter is 13 years old and even though she is struggling with some issues, basically your average teenage angst, I know that the sacrifices I made back then made all the difference.
The DA, the judge... just wow!! What truly gifted, compassionate, kind people they both are. The way they speak to where you hear it, you listen and walk away with so much respect. What a craft. Meanwhile sometimes i can't boil noodles right. Ha
Super kind, reasonable and smart judge.
I love him
I agree....did anyone else disagree with how the prosecutor spoke to the judge?? Maybe its just me & i completely understand being defensive & passionate about these victims but there was a better more respectful way for her to articulate her valid points to the judge ...without raising her voice in a - You do what i say or i will not do this or that ..i know more or im above u type attitude that i just didnt appreciate... im referring to at the very beginning of this video.
& i know that what shes arguing is in response to how in the previous vid the defense was asking questions of the victim/teacher that wasnt appropriate & borderline combative as an attempt to somehow downplay her trauma & imo put focus on why teachers/staff didnt do more as if they could have prevented this kid from doing what he did. I didnt like what his lawyers were doing however they really was just trying to provide effective counsel in a case where he already pleaded guilty so while yea...its coming across as lacking of compassion toward that teacher & the victims or an effort to somehow shift blame ...i personally just think for the most part they were coming up with any little thing to pick & poke holes through to at least have the appearance of effective counsel...not saying their morally right...cuz especially the heavy set one seems to be lacking of knowledge & experience with a case of this magnitide .....which isnt surprising ...most court appointed attorneys appear to be dumb as hell. Its kinda scary once u think about it....esp for the cases where the defendant is actually innocent of the crime their being charged with. I know thats not the case here ....im just talking about in general.
Anyway...this case is just incredibly heartbreaking all the way around. I think his parents failed him on every level...im not suggesting that as parents we can always foresee or prevent every violent act our child does bcuz ive personally known very diligent & active loving & caring parents who unfortunately have had a child completely go down a road of destruction & crime even when theyve done everything humanly possible to prevent that child from continuing down the wrong path & in how devastating it was for them when nothing worked & they ended up losing their child to the prison system & /or death however in this case i think these parents had so many red flag signs of their childs mental health suffering & i dont think either one possessed the mental or emotional capacity to parent affectively & they do have to own some blame in this.
The blatant ignorance in providing your son with a firearm when he was clearly struggling with having any kind of normal ..positive..or healthy societal interactions & relationships with his peers & had an obsession with violence is just disgusting. Cuz im sorry , as a parent u may not be able to physically control or prevent ur childs actions but u absolutely know b4 your child gets to this point that they have issues & are struggling .....i will never believe that these parents weren't aware of his hatred & neg feelings & thoughts towards society & other kids he went to school with. I just think neither mom or dad viewed the concept of parenting as anything more than doing the basic minimum thats needed to get by type of mentality.....& they would rather be in denial cuz as long as they didnt acknowledge how messed up he was they werent burdened with having to take any steps to correct the issues. Whats even more disgusting is they would have been absolutely fine with that boy going into the army or like a police academy & become the worlds problem on an even bigger scale & destroying more lives than what hes already done .... Can u imagine someone with his mindset given a badge & a gun & the authority to use those for the wrong reasons ?? ....as scary & crazy as that concept sounds, i think we all can name a case weve been made aware of where thats absolutely been a reality ...one in which good sane morally sound LE officers have been unfairly judged & condemned for the actions of those officers that were able to get through the academy & use their badge to break the law instead of enforce it & it come out they were evil & more sociopathic than most of the criminals they were responsible for arresting.
Ill end my ranting ....i appreciate anyone who took the time to read all of this ....ima continue praying for the families of these babies whos lives were taken....as a momma who even as a single parent was able to raise a household of all boys to become educated, respectful, hard working & honorable men & fathers believe that as a society it truly does take a village & we needa let go of this notion - not my child not my business -way of thinking & accept the fact that aint nothing gonna stop this world from continuing to be devastated from the senseless actions of others until we start focusing on the mental health issues in our society & more effective resources being provided for kids of all ages & socioeconomic backgrounds to benefit from programs focused on bullying & helping children to establish effective positive relationships with each other & those within their communities that way there are fail proof systems put in place to hopefully expose a lack of valuable resources or time/love/attention that a child may be experiencing that act as roots in order for all the issues
were seeing to develop into something this horrific & try to prevent these situations from the jump ....but in order to do that its gonna take us all to let go of the political differences....racial biases ...& come together to do what we gotta do so no child is left behind...leading with compassion & acceptance & love so we give the next generations a better chance at world peace. I know that sounds crazy but it shouldnt....we dont have to just keep accepting these tragedies as if there arent ways to prevent them when there are...we just have gotten lazy & complacent as a whole & would rather sit & complain while doing nothing effectively to prevent & change it . Idk what the right answers are but i know this is not the state of the world i wanna leave to my grand babies...i look at them & think damn...we gotta get it together or they dont have a chance in hell.
Sorry for my extremely long ranting ....i guess i got a little carried away in my thought process. Lol ....but wanted to wish whoever read my thoughts continued love... peace... & blessings & prayers for these parents going through the unimaginable pain of losing their beautiful babies. My heart hurts so bad for them. 😢❤
Off-topic
And he is fine. Sorry I had to say it
@@ashleypg1708me to
The parents should be blamed for their sons actions, he tried to tell them he was having problems they seem to ignore him. So sad😢
I know what he did was wrong!! But those messages he was crying and begging for help... this could of been avoided he Cleary had something going on and he didn't know what to do with himself.. I actually feel bad for him as a child.. I could careless about him as a killer!!
The schools failed him too. 😢 he was tortured and abused on so many levels..by so many people and organization's ..I pray he not sent to jail/prison 🙏 😢
He was severely neglected and lied on.
He needs to be placed in the care of a very great educated psychotherapist he's a child..a animal don't deserve to be abused.
He's a human being.
A child he don't deserve to be locked in prison.
Nor groomed in a prison. To be slaughtered!
It is absolutely clear to me that his parents have been rightfully charged for their actions. However, as a parent they should NEVER have bought him a gun
@@edithcrosby840 A child he may be, but he MURDERED FOUR PEOPLE AND INJURED DOZENS MORE EITHER PHYSIOLOGICALLY OR PHYSICALLY!!! He needs to be held accountable for that. A hospital is to easy of a punishment for him, because that leaves open the possiblity that he could be free one day and that thought scares me! Their are 4 parents who will NEVER SEE THEIR CHILDREN AGAIN!! As for him crying, he sure wasn't crying when he is talking about shooting and killing people!!!
@@rosearellanes5648 it's so sad 🙏 💔
Maybe they will put prayer back in the school 🙏
The young lady on the stand spoke very well. I'm glad she was able to help her classmate. Praying she'll be okay after all she saw.
One of the most soft-spoken judges
He’s soft spoken but effective. Better than the judge for Jennifer crumbley
Clearly, the defendants parents are AWFUL! Sounds like he had some issue that his parents should have known. I mean, did they ever sit down and ask him how he was doing? I’m not condoning what he did but sounds like he was a neglected child.
They never asked, because they didn't care.
He needs to be in prison for the rest of his life for his crimes, but listening to the Internet search and text message history starting around 15:00 into the video is heartbreaking. He realized he was losing his mind, he was looking for answers and help online, and he was even reaching out to his only friend from school, because his chronically neglectful parents weren't paying attention, and they were NOT getting him any kind of psychiatric care -- and he CLEARLY was in desperate need of psychiatric care.
The earlier text messages to and from his neglectful mother from 2016, when Ethan would've been only 9 or 10 years old, starting around 24:20 in the video, just make me want to cry. At that point he was an elementary school student who had not yet committed any crimes. He was obviously terrified because he was home alone at night. He was BEGGING his mother to come home, but she only cared about partying with the ski patrol.
My God, he was still so young in 2016 that he was still losing baby teeth! These idiot parents never thought about hiring a babysitter for a little boy who was not old enough yet to be home by himself? Asking the neighbors to be "watching the house" is not enough.
Being left home alone as a young child was something that probably happened even more often than it seems from the testimony here. We already know how much time the mother spent with her horses instead of parenting her child.
Those text messages from when he was 9 or 10 are even more proof that this very disturbed young man used to be a very disturbed and fearful little boy, and that his parents absolutely played a role into turning him into a monster.
Long before they made the foolish decision to buy their mentally ill child a gun, the parents were failing to make him feel loved, and secure, further guaranteeing he would become a monster.
He was obviously having both visual and auditory hallucinations by the time he was in his preteens, and still nobody thought he needed official psychiatric care?
Ethan should never get out of prison. But his parents essentially created a situation where Ethan had almost no chance to avoid becoming a monster.
Ethan was clearly showing signs that his mental illness was getting worse in 2021, before he committed this horrible crimes. But the adults around him who should've been paying attention and getting him help, didn't even care enough to notice.
The text messages between the two parents starting around 32:30 included one of them asking the other if Ethan was still acting "depressed and weird" and talking about drugging him with Xanax and melatonin, and contemplating having the counselor at school talk to him.
The text messages to his friend around 42:00 to 55:00 , also made it clear he was mentally ill, he was having auditory and visual hallucinations, and he was ASKING his parents to take him in to the doctor -- but his parents would respond by laughing at him and punishing him.
These parents created a monster, and then made that monster even more dangerous by buying him a firearm and failing to keep it locked up.
he is defiantly a psychopath.
He knew right from wrong. The end.
@@scottie2hot -- I agree with you on that. Which is why Ethan needs to be in jail for the rest of his life. And the fact that he was trying his best to get somebody to stop him is another bit of evidence that he knew right from wrong. He knew shooting people at school would be wrong. He knew it was a crime.
But he is clearly mentally ill. Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one. He is sane enough to stand trial, and he is sane enough to know right from wrong. But that does not mean that he isn't suffering from a very severe mental illness. And it also doesn't mean that the mental illness didn't play a huge role in leading to this crime.
So the crime could've been prevented. If the parents had done the right thing, perhaps Ethan would have been helped. If he had been evaluated by psychiatric professionals, perhaps put on medication, and been given ongoing counseling, perhaps he might never have gotten to the point where he was willing to take a gun to school. Or perhaps someone involved his care would have noticed some signs and intervened before disaster struck.
He was crying out for help already when he was a little boy. Previous neighbors described the parents as neglectful even when they lived in Washington and he was a preschooler. He was terrified of being home alone, and was begging his mom to come home. He was telling his parents that he was having hallucinations, and then he thought somebody else was in the house with him when he was alone. But instead of comforting him, or taking him to a medical professional, to be evaluated and medicated, they were laughing at him and punishing him for showing signs of mental illness
And they clearly recognized that their son was mentally ill, but instead of seeking proper treatment for him, they dosed him with Xanax that wasn't even prescribed for him personally. They tried to get him to sleep with melatonin so they wouldn't have to deal with him.
They were more worried about spending money on their horses and their extramarital affairs, than spending money for Ethan to be treated by psychiatrists and psychologists.
Ethan was writing in his journal about his disturbing posts on social media, and hoping somebody from school would notice his disturbing posts and tell the adults at school. Because by then he knew his parents were worthless, and were not going to intervene, so he was hoping that the educators at school would intervene, or that a fellow student would call the police.
He needs to be in prison because he had enough insight into his disease that he could've walked into the school counselor's office and told them outright that he was having homicidal thoughts.
He could've told the same thing to a teacher, or an assistant principal, or the principal, or the lunch lady, or the janitor. He could've gone to any adult at school to ask for help. Or he could've called 911 himself and told the dispatcher that he was having homicidal thoughts.
There were plenty of things that Ethan could've done. Then again, kids don't always choose to do the right thing, even if they don't have a mental illness.
If his parents had paid attention to him at all, it might not even have gotten to that point in the first place.
And if the parents listened to the school personnel when they finally called the parents in about the drawings with the guns and the disturbing "help me" writings on his papers, and taken Ethan straight from the school to the hospital to be evaluated, those other four kids will still be alive.
If the parents had not bought him a gun, those other four kids would still be alive.
If the parents had properly secured that gun, so he couldn't access it when he wasn't being directly supervised by one of them at the gun range, those other four kids would still be alive.
If the parents had said something about the gun while they were at school that morning, somebody probably would have searched Ethan's pockets and backpack and locker and found it. And those four kids will still be alive.
So he needs to be in prison for the rest of his life. But his parents ALSO need to go to prison for at least a number of years for **dropping the ball every step of the way** and leaving the pathway open to four other children being killed.
Edit: another reason the parents need to go to prison is that they knew right away their kid was probably the one responsible for the school shooting, as soon as they heard the news reports. But instead of calling 911 they were both strategizing on how they could escape responsibility for this. The father called a friend. The mother told her coworkers that Ethan couldn't escape punishment for his crime, but that she and her husband needed to save themselves. And then the parents tried to skip town, emptying the bank account and getting burner phones and hiding out at that art gallery in Detroit, near the waterfront, probably planning to sneak into Canada. They are just trash, and they also need to be in prison.
@@scottie2hotyou are correct, but that doesn't change the nuances of life and how we can learn to prevent this in the future. Although it's obvious, evidently people still need reminding ie, other parents like ethan's.
@@Hanloss I think society is far too forgiving of these guys. There is an epidemic of white boys/men committing mass shootings. This is deliberate decision making. They plan to bring a gun. They plan to kill people. This isn’t a crime of passion or crime of opportunity. This is intentional. If he were black, you all would be calling for a firing squad and giving him zero grace.
This defense attorney is absolutely horrible! She has no empathy for the victims. It's her client who murdered all these people, yet she is badgering the victims. I am so glad the prosecution and the Judge stopped her
I agree you don’t want think concern about the perpetrator home life etc.
Molly Darnell for example and the school students
Thank you prosecution and judge
Every American has a right to a defense
Every American has a right to a defense
Every American has a right to a defense
Heidi is a real hero, sweat, smart and kindhearted girl. Real empathy and compassion. She should be proud of herself and her parents too. Keep being kind and sweat Heidi. Go on the good path in life. !!!! Can be a doctor or nurse
I know… 😢
She's a helicopter mom only if her helicopter disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle
He needed help and his parents knew he was struggling. Breaks my heart and for the victims 😞
@Daisy-fw4dh Your heart aching for a killer who tortured baby birds and wanted to kill children is disturbing enough to flag you as a potential future criminal. I am a lawyer, I worked as a paralegal in New York before moving to Europe. This is how American trials go. THROW THE PARENTS UNDER THE BUS NOW IS THE STANDARD DEFENSE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE FACTS THEY PRESENTED ARE ACCURATE. The so called mental health expert the defense called as witness fell completely apart when questioned by the prosecution. There is AMPLE evidence from Jennifer Crumbley´s trial that they were quite a normal American family. In fact more like your own family than you might think. But critical thinking and logical discernment are just not your thing. I can gather a bunch of ¨experts" chosen by me and sit you in a room telling you biased and skewed sob stories and lies for days to convince you of something even if it is completely untrue. You would very likely fall for it 100 percent. That is the problem with cases being decided by ¨jurors¨ that are essentially any moron picked from the streets such as yourself. I have studied international law and I can tell you ONLY AMERICA puts justice in the hands of idiots off the streets. In every other developed country on Earth, juries are made up of Jurists, actual legal experts who are not swayed by emotions and hearsay or biased media like they are in America. Nikolas Cruz the Parkland shooter whom Crumbley admired and looked up to, threw similar fits, made similar internet searches, planned emails and a diary before his killing spree in order to set up a defense of mental health problems. This guy just picked it up from the standard playbook. These things are EASILY FAKED by the way. You need to take things with a ¨grain of salt¨ the size of an asteroid and be objective when it comes to cases like this. Were they parents of the year? No they weren´t . However, 10-15 years for the parents who themselves committed no crime is insane and it actually would fall under a Human Rights violation in an international court.
10:09 this is good that she references the Crime Victim Rights Act. Good for her for standing up for victims on the stand
This child’s actions were irrendous I get that. My heart aches for all involved. But I can’t help but want to take this child and hug him. These texts to his POS mother are making me want to cry for him. I honestly don’t know if this child has ever felt love. I know he needs to pay the consequences for his crime but, I hope that his selfish mother goes to prison as well. They ignored every sign, whether it be him seeking attention or he is truly mentally I’ll. His mom was mean and cruel and cared less that her child was truly suffering.
Your empathy is misplaced.
irrendous?
If anyone deserves the death penalty it’s him!!!!!
Sick sick human being!!!!
they cannot give a minor nor anyone crazy the death penalty.
Ethan will spend a lifetime in Prison receiving: 3 meals a day, 8 hours of sleep, make “friends”, exercise, have recreational leisure time, get an education etc… all on the Tax Payers dollar. His home life must have been really bad considering he would rather spend a life sentence in Prison than be with his dead beat parents.
25:14 this is pure evidence in Jennifer Crumbles case!!! That child was so neglected that he turned into Psychopath. He still deserves his sentence because he is a threat to society, and those parents definitely need to be convicted. I hope that judicial system does the right thing and the people on the trial.
16:05
They weren't supposed to glorify the name of the website.
That should not occur as it would encourage more disturbed teens to fall down a similar rabbit hole.
The judge has such a soft voice and seems very professional and compassionate
The defense lawyer should stop feeling sorry for him. He did not feel sorry for the birds or the persons he killed. Just cruelty. He could attac his parents instead, cause THEY hurt him, not the birds or the school.
I agree that he should be in prison, he commited a crime and lives were lost and changed forever and there needs to be justice for that, however this kids only guidance was google and i hope his parents do some serious time. Unreal and heartbreaking
I came here after watching Jennifer Crumbley’s trial & was a little baffled & unsure how I felt about the verdict. Not because I didn’t think she held any accountability but so much of the evidence in the trial was very limited. After watching this Miller hearing, I completely understand the verdict & am also more aware of the other evidence that was left out but was present during the Miller hearing.
I have nothing but the upmost respect for DA McDonald, DA Keast & the Hon. Judge Rowe. The way they argued their case even after the defense blatantly argued with a witness & badgered a victim non the less was appalling . I know EC’s defense has a job to do but that was too much & DA McDonald in that moment after with such class, dignity & awareness for these victims & the trauma they’ve gone through. I now understand why they brought charges against the parents.
Also, Judge Rowe was amazing. The judge in Jennifer’s trial seemed not to be able to command & control her own courtroom. While she did have a personality that’s warm & likeable. Judge Rowe seemed to have this warm, controlled tone of voice, very professional & had control of his courtroom at all times. We need more Judges on the bench like him to serve in our communities.
Thank you for broadcasting the whole hearing.
Heidi you are a brave and remarkable young lady my God hold you in his hands forever
When I was 10, my mom and dad had to work all day everyday even weekend. I stayed home with my brother and younger sister and my grandparents lived just across the street. With all family memebers around, I still missed my mom, I wanted to have her home with me. One day I told her: Mom, I wish you could stay home with us all the time. I miss you Mom. Can you bring work home, i will help you? My mom then changed her job that she could work from home and I was so happy to help her with everything. Its been years gone by, I still remember how lonely I was when staying without Mom. I have great sympathy for kids who dont have Moms by their side when they are growing up. Please spend more time with your kids, dont ignore them!!!
I had to make the decision to work from the home making very little money 💰 due to my son being diagnosed as Special Education. This changed my life because of the amount of therapies he had. My ex husband refused to participate in any aspect of his education. My ex insistence in having a child dwindled when it came to that type of responsibility. I believe not everyone should have children.
Love this judge!
This Boy was clearly needing/wanting help & answers - regarding how he was feeling, hence his google searches content!
Do you really think he didn't do the Google searches intentionally knowing they'd be looked at?
One of the most worrying things I've fround from this case is how little we can know about our children. Mine are young, but I'd like to hope I'm able to monitor their devices, messages and internet usage. I know teenagers are hard and secretive, but parents have got to take responsibility for their chileren.
As a mom of teenagers, my advice would be to monitor it from the get go so they don't rebel against it when they're older. Make it a fact of life. If you want to use (this device), it will be monitored. (Also, this type of case is exactly why I skim my son's journal from time to time while he's in school.)
I wish they would have used these texts in Jenifer’s trial
The defendant’s attorney keep rolling her eyes over and over……
Heidi was so brave helping the wounded girl. God bless her ! My condolences to the families of lost loved ones and the wounded. Prayers for all who witnessed this senseless act of violence, I could see the trauma that this has left on all of them. Heartbreaking and so very sad.
Omg this poor boy!! I do not understand how both of his parents could just ignore him. I could never(and never did) ignore my child’s text, that is so very negligent as well as cruel. We know his mother had a few “extra” hobbies but did the father aa well??
There is so much more than what was said at James and Jennifer's preliminary hearing. They failed him on so many levels. If only he had a psychologist or family member he could talk to. I hope they are held accountable.
I honestly don't think Ethan is evil.
Prayers for the families.
Such a senseless tragedy 😢
And when they have their hearing way more will come out. This kid raised himself and of course he didn’t do a very good job at it. I think they bought him a gun hoping he would take his own life. They knew he was screwed in the head.
I’m glad parents are being held accountable. I will say based on texts messages being read out he sent to his parents, he sounds like he was a very emotionally needy child. Again, perhaps parents caused this,but even the way he calls her “mommy” and he’s in highschool. Something odd …codependency perhaps?
my 35 year old husband calls his mom, mommy.. so what? and by way, those text that he was sending calling her mommy was from when he was about 9 or 10.
He is manipulative, that's about the summation.
Some of these were when he was 9-10 years old
he wasn't in high school when he called her mommy, he was 9 or 10.
Did they intentionally send him the worst defense attorney they have? Not that it matters much, we all know the outcome
Are you talking about Cher? When I watched the first part I was like "Oh, I didn't know Cher became a defense attorney, good for her!"
Heidi is a brave young lady. Thank goodness for her quick actions and compassion. God bless you, Heidi.
This kid tried anyway he could to get his parents to listen let alone b home😢
God bless the prosecution for standing up for her witnesses and making it clear that yesterday's court was disgusting!
Wow what a strong and brave young lady!
After hearing all the text messages between mom dad and Ethan all l can say is this family had major issues eg: mom and dad were self absorbed, Ethan had major depression and was crying out for attention and affection….just sickening THEY ALL NEED TO BE LOCKED UP PARENTS ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS ETHAN
I didn’t see any of these text messages or Google searches in Jennifer Crumbley’s trial (now going on) and I’m a little afraid she’s going to get off Scott free…they are making her sound like a good responsible mom! Plus…that trial is like a zoo with all the bickering between the attorneys…and the judge is worse than horrible!!
They did a few of his texts, searches and some journal entries in Jennifer's trial, but I think it would have been helpful to include more of those like they did in this hearing. I've been thinking this hearing has done more to prove mom guilty than her trial has. It is going to be interesting to see the jury's decision. I think it will be a long deliberation.
This is exactly why I have been so vocal in the chats.
I watched this hearing live months ago. When JC trail started I was like NO NO NO! There is so much more! The circus show that Shannon smith put on was so distracting and amount of evidence excluded was mind blowing!
Jennifer C is guilty!
Yep! From what I've put together by listening to almost all of her trial and these hearings, it sounds like beyond just the horses and the affairs, both of the parents were more interested in partying and I suspect they probably had alcohol issues.
@@meganbaldwin1699you’re so right! If they had gotten more of this evidence in, I think people’s minds would be different. She lied on that stand! And there I thought they charged her unfairly-until seeing this!
Thank you so much DA for being the victims voice and advocating, as a therapist and Advocate for survivors of trauma, I am so glad that lawyers like you are out there
Those parents FAILED miserably in every way. I pray to God they are both held responsible.
This boy is a sick disturbed individual. He did all he could to get help, his parent failed him miserably. He and his parents should all spend the rest our their lives behind bars.
Omg that poor child was legit seeking help he wrote everything down he recorded everything he wanted someone to stop him
The searches really do show how Ethan was left to his own devices when sorting out his anxieties . He is just a kid.
So heartbreaking. I would never ignore, much less laugh at my child who was asking for mental health help.
The defense team should be prosecuted themselves for their utter disgraceful attitude and behaviour towards the victims of this monster. He should be locked up forever no matter what.
Omg the texts between Ethan and his mom are heartbreaking. He was a baby. She is so cold. And I bet she will get a not guilty sentence. Parents need to be responsible for this kid’s actions if they are blatantly neglecting them and denying them mental health care.
Thankfully she got a guilty verdict on all counts
Thank for saying parents. I get so sick of just blaming the mom. Yes she was a great mom but she was the only one consistently working. Don’t know much about Dad but he holds at least 50% of the responsibility
Both of those young people are about the best I have ever heard testify. Kudos to the parents and teachers who have ushered such intelligent individuals into adulthood💕🐾🐾🙏🏻
Parents were very inattentive to him from a very young age.
A young black judge cant get any better then him..
How sad, the mother is UNFIT! EVERY WOMAN WHO IS ABLE TO HAVE A CHILD IS NOT FIT FOR THE JOB😢
So is Dad…apparently he can’t keep a job for very long, that was on one of the video. Mom was the only working continually.
Why does the shooter have a bullet proof vest on? Why do we always give the perpetrators more rights than the victims! Why? 🤦♀️
Disgusting
21:00 I'd just like to thank the defense for saying "He Googles..." followed by a bunch of insane stuff, triggering my Google Home devices, thereby putting all of this murderer's questions into my search history. Let's please say "He searches" from now on, shall we?
Capital punishment should be an option here. Even if he got a messily 10 years consecutive for each murder. And 5 years each for each attempted murder = 75 years. So this proceeding is a pathetic waste of time and this inmate is an absurdity for trying to get out of prison after killing 4 people. You accept your predicament and do your time day for day
The fact he couldn't b himself to his parents his heart breaking. Along w a 15yr old begging mommy to come home is disturbing...
His mom shows a significant lack of emotional empathy, dismissive and bullying saying he needs to man up..”sounds like something I would say” during her trial. I don’t think the prosecution showed her significant emotional neglect
@@staciacrick3373 nothing enough. Too stuck on the gun which is understandable but the emotional empathy caused this to go that far in my opinion. Not only that when I heard him speak he sounded very intelligent and I believe he did regret his decision .. he was searching for someone to care in the only way he knew how and never worked. Now they care but what does he have to lose at that point is how a lonely 15yr old w so much disappointment already.. so sad. I could never imagine my child doing this drawling and begging me to speak to them and not try to do anything as their MOTHER.
He was 10 when he sent the texts calling her mommy
Heidi, you’re an extremely powerful young lady! ❤
What an articulate young lady. She seems to have more reasoning skills than most adults. She accessed the situation then her plan. God Bless🙏🏻🐾🐾💕
Good judge, unlike the useless judge in jennifer crumbly case
🎯
Thank you, Judge.
Left home alone at 11 yrs old is messed up. I understand being home for a little bit after school but not until late at night!
left alone as young as 7
Oh my Heidi’s testimony 😢😢😢. What a brave, beautiful, girl. God did put you there. God Bless you sweet girl ❤.
Poor little girl. She is going to be traumatized all her life. Hope This Pinocchio face gets life without parole.
I can't imagine this Monster, yes, Monster, getting out of prison ever. Hopefully the judge makes the right decision and gives the victims and their families some relief.
i don't think their is ever any relief when your child is murdered..
understandably this is about the shooter & trying to make him out to be 'not dangerous'..
but those families having to sit there and listen to the defense make HIM the victim... brutal.
If the defendant does not get effective representation to the best of his attorneys ability then he could be entitled for a retrial. I think its really important for everyone that the defence team do their best, despite the depravity of their client.
Off topic this judge is fine and sound so good can look at him all day
Basically the judges are saying to both defense teams so far, "Sit Down and Shut Up!"
He needs to look up and pay attention to HIS hearing.
Every parent should have a mirror app on their kids' phone and collect said phone periodically to see what is being seen. If a kid wants unfettered access to internet this is the agreement.
Mother's a narcissist, Dad is not a dad, son is a psychopath. Just as well there were no other children!
I have to admit the so-called 'parents' trigger me (I had similar experiences with neglect in my childhood).
What make these young people wanna destroy
other people lives!!!!! Young man did this aweful
Situation make you fell better?
I cannot stand the defense in this hearing. Ugh.
He looks like he is smirking at points and hes trying to hide it when the 1st victim said how she noticed him with the gun and she told them how he smirked ive seen him do it before to
What an amazing articulate young lady ❤
So the defense is saying everything is not his fault. After he premeditated the murders and carried them out systematically .
Thats WILD!
Defense did a great job promoting Nathan's parents lack of care for their son.
And his parents are clueless who buys a child a gun and let him have full access to it knowing he has mental issues it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that might not be a good idea
Is Cher his defense attorney?
Lol
No but I think it’s Morticia Adams ????
Horrible parent's doesn't even begin to describe it.
1:23:05 do you think she was telling him “don’t watch the video”? Cause that would have looked pretty awful for his case
Schools and system fails too to really see kids and signs too. Too big schools s not good.
Young Black Judge….❤
The AUDACITY to try to strike Molly Darnell's testimony...
Even if most of these facts taken out of his mother's trial, she was found guilty.
The live feed I saw looked like it was filmed with two security cameras.
Law should be, take a life lose your life.
Well we can see by your title that quite possibly you can not even see passed your nose! We all have our demons, even you!
unless its self defense, or a true accident.
this kid is just evil.. killing baby birds for 'fun'.. he cannot be fixed.
America does not believe in the death penalty.
@@FutaCatto2 ur a cf that pfp isn’t of u
It's crazy-there's this place called Texas...@@FutaCatto2
Well thanks Morticia for putting out the web-site that everyone yesterday so carefully avoided naming . Just feeding the next sick-os …SMH
Morticia!😂😂😂 the defense makes me sick!
Thought the same thing
All the time people use on texting texting they could have used on talking WITH eachother on the phone or in the same room, face to face, like we did before mobile phones. Talk with eachother, much time wasted on textxs back and forth. You pick up the phone and talk, real conversation with the other. Get better results. Using private phones at work in job hours is not allowed. You are at work. If problems with your child you go home or get someone to take care of him/her. In courts texts are good proof though
Good catch, Irene, certainly phone calls are the cure for psychopathy, we all should've consulted you sooner.
@@darkhorse7460 was not talking about phsycopaths, was talking in general. Just a comment, an opinion about modern form of phone use.
@@darkhorse7460 but you are american. And young.
You’re allowed to use your phone during work hours Irene. Most work places you have to use your phone for work even.
Good for prosecutor for pushing back on the badgering by the defense.My heart went out to the teacher in part 4
This older defense atty acts like a robot with no personality and hardly raises and lowers her voice.
Only one Father talked about Forgiveness, as you could see them before. And if you follow God’s law, if you don’t know, you should know that if any of you doesn’t FORGIVE, you will not be forgiven either.
This, kid is or was a the time of the incident, only 15 years old. So, he is a minor. He was taught wrong, by his parents, the teachers, or counselors didn’t even visit his home and and surroundings. Even the Secretary of Education many years ago God and prayers were taken out of the schools and now you see the results of many other SCHOOL’s Shootings happening in this wonderful nation.
I fully believe his mother had no interest in being a mother and was tired of dealing with him at all. I think she secretly hoped if they let him have a gun he'd commit suicide. Careful what you wish for.
Absolutely nothing honorable about the judge or the g woman dressed as a man. that boy is cray and should be locked up forever
The teenage girl is sò articulate
I do searches all the time when I hear something or someone say they have bipolar disorder, antisocial disorder etc just being curious and trying to understand them. Doesn’t mean anything or that I’m thinking I have them mental health issues 🤷🏻♀️
@tammyirwin703 Until they make it a condition for straight qualification for death sentence people will continue to give such excuses
But he didn't simply search for these disorders. He was having auditory and visual hallucinations, he was reaching out to his mother and his friend because he was afraid of these hallucinations, and his parents were even talking about how they were drugging him with Xanax and melatonin, and that he was acting "depressed and weird"
The parents should have been taking him to a psychiatrist starting YEARS before he committed these murders.
Instead of leaving him home alone when he was still 9 or 10, and still losing his baby teeth, they should've arranged for a babysitter.
Instead of punishing him as a preteen and young teen for acting depressed and moody, and instead of laughing at him when he was afraid of his visual and auditory hallucinations, they should've been getting him help from his pediatrician and a psychiatrist.
Instead of texting each other about how they should ask the school counselor to talk with him, his parents should've been taking him to medication management visits with a psychiatrist, and to frequent counseling sessions with a psychologist or social worker. But they did nothing but laugh it off and complain to each other about how "weird" their kid was.
And then the idiot parents bought him a deadly weapon on top of it all, and failed to keep it locked up securely at home.
He was, in my opinion, and not very successfully trying to build an insanity defense with the Google searches.
They need to put prayer 🙏 back in the school ❤
Wow, this defense attorney is playing along the groundwork that the killer boy laid out for exactly this court or any hearings after the murders. 😂😂😂😂😂