it's actually just a byproduct of how the modifier they used for his ability already worked; afaik all of the leader pass leaders just reuse existing database elements (effects, collections, requirements) so funny how well that ended up working out for ludwig
@@gregoriahthanielsonward I don't think I understand your point. It's fairly unique; I can't think of anything else in the game where something incomplete can provide anything. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean by "just reuse," how else would they add something to the game?
@@charleskorndorffer leader and civiization kits are built using blocks of code that do something (like effects can modify the yields of a great work, and requirements can make those yields conditional on like, having a specific tech or something). wonders granting adjacency bonuses even when unfinished is just how that block of code (effect) already worked, and it was already in the game before ludwig (ie they didn't program any new blocks of code to make it happen). if you get into civ modding you'll pretty quickly learn that when making new civ abilities, you can either frankenstein together these preexisting elements (effects/requirements/collections) to produce an ability, or script more unique stuff with lua (programming language). the point is that these new leaders with the leader pass have all been made using preexisting elements and could have been made by database-only modding, which is disappointing because if they actually add new stuff, modders have more stuff to dick around with that's for sure stable for online (lua mods can cause desyncs).
@@gregoriahthanielsonward well thee releases def seem more like something to hold us over until civ 7. I doubt they had a large team working on them. It’s better then nothing I’d say
Having played a ludwig game, I have to say, district planning is really complex and fun with him. In addition to the hansa adjacency planning you usually need to do, you also need to plan where to plop down wonders with all their weird restrictions, plan which wonders you actually want to finish and which you don't, have backup plans in case wonders get stolen so your adjacency doesn't get destroyed, and make sure you have enough workable tiles left over after your wonder spam and extra districts.
And thats why Ludwig and germany in general isn't broken, cause the player has to invest a lot of time thinking about his moves and placements to farm any gains. Also Ludwig is not an upgrade over Frederik. (except Multiplayer). While Ludwig Mid- Endgame is vastly superior he still need to deal with germany's early game weakness. Thats an issues in Multiplayers and Singleplayer. Diffrence being in Singleplayer Frederik gets an headstart by easily conquering City States.
@@woodysmith2681 I dont think the tourism goes the uncompleted wonders, it goes to the districts AROUND the uncompleted wonders in the form of a +2 adjacency bonus for each... you'll retain tourism earned, but when the bonus goes down (when a wonder gets completed by someone else) then your future tourism earned will come more slowly... at least that's how I figure it works
@@Shadraen1 "Wonders, even unfinished, receive a +2 Culture Culture bonus from each adjacent District District. All Culture Culture adjacency bonuses provide Tourism Tourism after researching Castles." The unfinished Wonder earns the adjacency bonus, collects the tourism. So, does the tourism go into your civilization's overall pool or does it get removed?
@@woodysmith2681 Sorry, you're right on the description, but you still shouldn't theoretically lose them. I'll have to test in game later, but once you have earned a tourist it appears in the culture victory screen as some number like "21/260" [tourists earned/highest culture defense]. So the number of tourists earned should not go down, but I'll have to test it... I planned on playing a Ludwig run pretty soon and will let you know
BTW, Basil's special ability (meaning "born purple") is named for the honorific used in Byzantium to refer to princes or princesses who were born while their father was the reigning emperor. This applied to Basil
When playing Seyong, it could be interesting to run campus research grants for one turn every time you are one turn away from researching the first tech of the era. This should DRAMATICALLY enhance your science/turn and thus your culture boost
@@thr4017 Out of these 3 yea may very well be, still seems like a consistent ability imho, Korea wasn't weak civ to begin with. Just the 2 others Sejong is bunched with are pretty bonkers :D
Frederick has always felt like a weird combination leader. The extra military slot and combat strength against city-states always felt weird combined with the other abilities.
I never played Germany because of that. The Hanza is arguably the strongest UB in the game, but Frederick's leader ability was crap to me because I never want to capture city states as that loses their bonuses. Ludwig though is just insane - top tier production and culture together.
It was awesome seeing you come this far. I remember a lot of your earlier videos. I appreciate what you have create, and all the enjoyment you have brought into the world.
With Theodora, having a blast. I got dance of the aurora when stuck near tundra near a natural wonder that added faith, religion was work ethic and had +8 cul/pro/faith on two cities early game, with several +7s easily enough. after adj bonus civics and farming on tundra its up to +24 on one! after grandmaster building it just is super fun, and can warmonger or build up cities. Makes Byzantium more flexible and many synergies, especially with secret socieities or heros i bet. Love it, well done devs!
Glad you enjoyed your trip and are back it, Potato! That live stream was good stuff. Also, I’m swearing off Ludwig II. Every single start had either absolute trash starts, except one (got Philosopher’s Stone from a tribal village on turn 5) in which I had a SERIOUS barb problem. So, Theodora is up next 😂
played with ludwig and planned having a lot of unfinished wonders but I had so much production that my capital built wonders in like 5 turns. it was one of my fastest culture victories and I guess it could have been even faster if I hadn't missed to meet one civ until very late. district planning was a bit tricky but very fun.
Ludwig truly is AMAZING. Just broke my cultural victory record with a Turn 155 win, and Russia was in the game. Deity of course. I'll try Sejong next as he also seems super busted.
I’d say that Ludwig is a straight upgrade over Frederick even in Domination, because getting to corps and armies faster is at least as good as the extra military card slot.
I was convinced on Wednesday that Sejong was the weakest of this bunch, partly because his ability wants you to focus on science (because it's the only win condition where you'll reliably get all boost moments) but then Seondeok just gets more science than he does. But I'm definitely going to crunch the numbers when I get to him, because I also underestimated Ramses II. Data, data, data!
nah, korea is actually strong. You can beeline research grant projects and great scientists right before next era and make a huge amount of culture which is important in a science game.
I was playing Ludwig yesterday. Not only is it super awesome that you get the bonuses even if the wonders aren't complete, but you spam Hansa's and play wonder collector and actually finish them off.
One thing about a lot of the Leader pass leaders is that they are leaders for experienced players. They all require a good feeling for the mechanics of the game. For those I have played so far (about half), they are all a lot of fun and often require me to play different than I usually play. But, for an occasional player, the benefits will be wasted.
Theodora is the first flat land civ I’ve seen. With the farming bonus, you basically want each hippodrome, holy site to be surrounded by flat farmable land. One curiosity I do have is how that interacts with pantheon abilities and especially the desert folk lore. Can you double your yields by farming deserts? [probably requires Petra]
You can't farm deserts in any case, unless it's a flood plain and then Petra wouldn't matter for those tiles.. You also can't farm jungles, forests or tundra (except as Canada) so those don't stack either. The best you could do is support those adjacencies with farms on terrain edges but it would be better to just use farms and save the pantheon slot for something else. EDIT: Unless of course you spawn right next to so much of tundra or desert you don't have much choice of using farms
I started a Theodora game last week, and together with an incredible Turn 4 relic this is the first Deity game where I do not really struggle at the start
Theodora for religious victory is fun. Plus you can get +6 on any holy site by surrounding it with farms. Couple that with Scripture for +12 holy sites, and with Work Ethic, that's +12 production.
I just feel like there is ALOT of missed opportunities in the leader pass. Don't get me wrong I think it's ok, but come on they couldn't add in the Neuschwanstein castle as a new wonder or throw in a new unique unit?
Just played Theodora. Had one Holy Site surrounded by farms, each farm granting +2 Faith and Culture -- crazy. Most of her Holy Sites were benefitting from crazy adjacency bonuses. Won a religious victory.
Sir Potato I implore you that once the new VI Leader videos are complete that you check out the turn based game Terraformers, its new (quite luck based like Civ) but very interesting strategy. I think people here would enjoy watching it for its familiarity to Civ.
The best moment of playing Sejong- will come about when a player rolls over a tribal village and gets a free tech boost popping their classical era culture bonus prematurely…. Like when they’re still building up the per turn science…. Oh, the faces this make- priceless……..
river goddess + work ethic is the way to go with Theodora I think. should be trivial to get +5 or +6 adjacency holy sites on any river because the areas around those tiles also tend to be great for farmland, so +6 faith, +6 culture, +6 production, (all boosted to +12 with the policy card) +2 housing and + 2 amenities from a single district (and an additional +2 faith from GPP converting to faith after you found a religion) is a really strong bonus to any city , and can be done very early. Also try to get Hidegaard of Bingen, for an additional +6 (or +12) science in one of your cities
Has anyone noticed certain Civs are missing after the latest update? Shaka is literally just no longer in my game after they added these new civs, he doesn't exist anymore and just isn't in the list of civs to pick from. Anyone else having this problem with any particular civs?
Boil em Mash em ❤️ Hey PoTaTO what do you think about a advanced River System in Civ7…with lets say Major Rivers(Rhine,Danube,Mississippi…)which could be used by Navys…you could Play Viking Raids have special districts like a Binnen-Harbor..Bridges..new Battle mechanics..Better adjacent yields…etc (and then contributaries like the Rivers er have now)❤️
Honestly I think Sejong would be considered good in any other pack but the problem is that he is in the same pack as Theodora and Ludwig who are both completely broken. I genuinely think Ludwig is now my favourite civ because he already has the insane Germany bonuses and gets stupidly high culture and tourism, plus Barbarossa’s leader abilities were never amazing.
I think what really bumps Ludwig up is, even if you're not going culture, that's still a massive about of culture for the tree, to get higher governments and civics faster than Frederick would, all for the cost of 1 military policy slot, which is probably the weakest policy slot once you hit mid-game.
so with ludwig, you can basically start construction on a wonder, then swap out production to something else and get 2 culture. Like stonehenge or another AI sought after wonder which you have no chance of completing.
Tbh Ludwig should be it’s entirely own civilization. Bavaria is too culturally distinct from the rest of Germany. Can have new wonders like Neuschwanstein that gives tourism + great writer & artist points. A special building like a beer hall that provides +2 production + 3 culture & tourism. And maybe an ability where mountain tiles provide culture and tourism & a buff to ski resorts.
Ludwig is definitely my favorite leader of the pass. He isn't batty like Theo, but I already dropped wonders I never planned to finish for road placement, so getting a bonus for it is very nice. Sejong is super disappointing, honestly. They could have done so much more with him. I would have preferred getting an inspiration for researching a technology you got a eureka to from the same Era versus that ability.
I really feel like Theodora just became my fav civ in this game. You can genuinely take advantage of only holy sites and it link your faith to your culture, so theoretically you can disregard théâtre square and if you’re lucky, plug in work ethic with desert or tundra pantheon. And you got the farms on top of it, the hypodrome and some bonus for military. It’s better than Germany and on par with Japan and Russia
The only one I feel is good is Theodora. Getting a high faith holysite with deserts or tundras and then adding work ethic with scripture is pretty great. They other two just have confusing abilities; getting temporary boosts sounds difficult.
Yea. They're probably food on lower difficulty but on anything else they're just too situational. Ludwig will give you single digit culture for the most time while Barbarossa just gives you a couple extra cities. Sejong just seems straight up garbage.
Ludwig II nearly bankrupted his dynasty building "useless" castles in the age of cannons and steam, and for that he was killed. Yet Neuschwanstein Castle is now one of most popular tourist destinations in Europe, and with an estimated 60 million visitors to date has paid for itself hundreds of times over. Neuschwanstein's lofty towers have inspired millions, including Walt Disney, who modeled Cinderella's Castle in Disneyworld after the iconic and glorious castle. It is also a powerful symbol of peace, both because Ludwig was criticized for building artistic monuments instead of investing into machines of war, and because it survived the Nazis despite Operation Werewolf orders to blow up the castle during the final days of Hitler's vile regime - the squadron that was supposed to carry out the act of destruction decided the castle was too breathtaking to destroy. As the castle contained vast amounts of artwork that the Nazis had stolen from France, it being spared from destruction saved a good portion of the art that survived World War 2 (the Monuments Men movie is based on this). In short, Neuschwanstein was a castle, but one that protected the artistic heritage of Europe from the barbarians that would burn it down. I like to think that this was Ludwig's intention all along, to gift his people a thing of beauty and wonder that would last the ages, a reminder that we humans can aspire to greater heights than the wanton violence of battle, and that the Mad King of Bavaria would be happy to know that he died a martyr for art and beauty.
I dont really undersatnd can you get them on console to because i have the leader pass and the anthology edition but i dont have any of these variant leaders
Interesting that they chose Ludwig II for germany considering he never was king/emperor of Germany. Would have thought that someone like Bismarck would have fit better (also would be interesting to have him as a diplomacy focused civ, something that doesn't really exist yet).
This leader pack is definitely the most 'fun' leader pack. While I'll argue that Sejong isn't amazing, he is interesting. And there are players (who aren't me) who will love him. Theodora is probably the right amount of 'good' and 'powerful' where she's viable, but not too good. Wilhelm is just hilarious and stupid good, and I love his gameplay. Possibly bordering on 'too good' even. But he's great.
7:15 even if you are going domination I think Ledwig is better than Frederick. If I had a military policy card that just gave me an extra 10 culture I’d probably run that every game especially in the classical era/medieval era. Being able just to get free culture from just placing wonders is insane, plus you get additional specialty districts to even further improve the culture you gain. I think it’s going to require testing to see how easy it is just to place wonders around your specialty districts and how many wonders you can get, but honestly I feel like you can probably get an extra 10-20 culture alone from that. More culture though means earlier access to governments and corps/armies, which means that there’s a decent amount of time when Ludwig will have more policy cards than Fredrick just because he has a better government. And personally I don’t find the +7 combat strength against city states to be that useful, since often I feel like attacking other players just gives so many more advantages than wasting my army on city states. Honestly I feel like Ludwig is going to be just extremely OP, I mean isn’t Fredrick already considered one of the best Civs in the game? Then on top of that you give him a ton of free culture, and also tourism if you’re going for a culture victory.
It’s funny how every leader pack has fallen into the same categories: one is strong but boring, one is more really weird (in a good way), and one is broke-ass busted
I’d assume it works for city projects since the earth satellite project also takes into action your projects when giving you culture, but I don’t know about scientists (I’d assume they would count but I don’t know if they count towards the earth satellite’s culture).
Just finished my Theodora game, turn 160 religious victory. Holy shit. Please Potato, when you play Theodora, play with secret societies mode and go Vampires for the Castle yields. I did not think to do this, but looking at my clustered +27 holy sites made me salivate thinking of the Castles.
I'm honestly pretty miffed the developers aren't planning on making the available to console players. So many cool leaders and interesting abilities and I'm over stuck playing that same ol civs.
Great analysis, except for the Dromon, which I feel is consistently underrated by everyone. I get that it is a naval unit and therefore not as impactful as it would be if it was a land unit. Even so, the actual power of the Dromon is insane. No other unit in the game gets the +10 combat strength against units. That's all units, land, sea, and ridiculously enough, air. In fact, no other unit in the game gets any combat bonus that applies as broadly to units without terrain, adjacency, continent, cassus beli, or some other condition applying. No other Unique Unit in the game gets extra range, but the Dromon does. Most Unique Units cost more than the unit they replace on average, but the Dromon is the same production cost as the unit it replaces. If you get Crusade as your religious belief, a Dromon in the waters of an enemy city following your religion is as powerful as a frigate vs units but without the upgrade, production, or niter costs of a Frigate. But it's true power is from Taxis. Because it unlocks so early while enemy cities have such low population, each kill converts more cities than the later Tagma or other traditional Byzantium pushes. Potato's warrior monk strategy is great on land, but if you have access to the sea, a couple dromons will make an army of Warrior monks look weak. I admit that the dromon strategy is highly situational for Byzantium, but it is nevertheless incredibly powerful when it can be applied. Anyone who doubts should try the following challenge to see this in action. As either Byzantine leader on an islands or archipelago map, attempt a religious victory without using any religious units to spread your religion. If you are one of those players who likes to go random everything in each game, learning this strategy will make you a much more versatile player whenever you roll Byzantium.
In my opinion. Sejong's ability has too many downsides and random factors to be considered good and reliable. You need to build and prepare your whole empire around the ability, which you sometimes cannot do. Some random stuff may happen, and the ability gets wasted. 1. Visit tribal hut -> randomly get free boost / free tech, the timing wasn't right, boom, wasted. 2. Recruit a Great Scientist to use for tech boosts, the same (Zhang Heng, a classical example). 3. Get Oxford University, and guess what? You can get tech at the wrong time. Delay Oxford? You may not be able to build it in time. Is it worth risking a good wonder for a single mediocre boost? To some extent, the Great Library may make you waste Sejong's ability by discovering (via boosting while already researched 60%+) Engineering, Celestial Navigation, etc., and has the same choice problem as above. 4. Late game, if you're behind, spy operations grant you boost, another waste (as above). Also, it's worth mentioning Margaret Mead may grant you more Culture than Sejong's ability for that era, which is a bit hilarious. And if you have Heroes and Legends, Anansi definitely will (in the long run), and at a way more predictable pace. And faster. This is big. The last thing is, you sometimes simply cannot optimize everything just for that single turn. If there are Immortals/Trebuchets/Scythians/Aztecs at your door, or bombers flying around, the decision to switch everything to research grants for even 1.2K culture may cost you your game. You can obviously turn everything around by saying "but if I do everything around correctly and/or have some luck, results will be great and satisfying". To that, I say yes and no. Satisfying, yes, great - no. This ability may help you if you're already doing good/have possibilities to optimize, etc. Getting free 200/500/1000 Culture is nice but unnecessary if you are already winning or generally doing fine. And you won't get that amount if you can't afford to build around it (sudden war, for example, natural disasters, barbs pillaging your Seowons), etc. Even if you could, would a single civic of two make that big of a difference in most cases? Also, the need of taking some counter-productive (or maybe counter-scientific) actions and random stuff happening, adds much to Hangul's unreliability. Which is sad. Overall, this ability is an auxiliary one and making it your game-defining seems like you are deliberately hindering yourself from the start. This is fine if you like a challenge or are a masochist (I don't judge), but calling Hangul a good/great/fine is... well, nope.
Funny thing, I was looking forwards to Ludwig even though I prefer a more high-production / strong military playstyle. Despite knowing he'd be more in this direction. Why? Because Frederick is lackluster and I don't want +7 combat strength vs citystates. Imo the "combat bonus vs citystates" bonus is just boring and not great. It's also why I don't like mongols in civ5, despite, y'know, loving their unique units and intended playstyle.
In real life Ludwig was far from insane - he was a visionary who’s works of art have more than paid for themselves many times over and sponsorship of Wagner gave us the greatest operas of all time. He should and is rightly lauded as one of the great leaders
My main issue with Sejong is he is so boring compared to the others. I don’t even mind a bad ability as long as it’s interesting. I already find Korea kind of a boring one to play.
Potato trying to theory craft Warrior monk being good despite last time he tried to make warrior monk viable it almost ruined his game lol Do it again!
I like how they added the fact that Ludwig II never finished his wonder builds into his in-game special ability
it's actually just a byproduct of how the modifier they used for his ability already worked; afaik all of the leader pass leaders just reuse existing database elements (effects, collections, requirements) so funny how well that ended up working out for ludwig
@@gregoriahthanielsonward I don't think I understand your point. It's fairly unique; I can't think of anything else in the game where something incomplete can provide anything. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean by "just reuse," how else would they add something to the game?
There are new mechanics added to game sometimes, such as the loyalty mechanic with Rise and Fall.
@@charleskorndorffer leader and civiization kits are built using blocks of code that do something (like effects can modify the yields of a great work, and requirements can make those yields conditional on like, having a specific tech or something). wonders granting adjacency bonuses even when unfinished is just how that block of code (effect) already worked, and it was already in the game before ludwig (ie they didn't program any new blocks of code to make it happen).
if you get into civ modding you'll pretty quickly learn that when making new civ abilities, you can either frankenstein together these preexisting elements (effects/requirements/collections) to produce an ability, or script more unique stuff with lua (programming language). the point is that these new leaders with the leader pass have all been made using preexisting elements and could have been made by database-only modding, which is disappointing because if they actually add new stuff, modders have more stuff to dick around with that's for sure stable for online (lua mods can cause desyncs).
@@gregoriahthanielsonward well thee releases def seem more like something to hold us over until civ 7. I doubt they had a large team working on them. It’s better then nothing I’d say
Having played a ludwig game, I have to say, district planning is really complex and fun with him. In addition to the hansa adjacency planning you usually need to do, you also need to plan where to plop down wonders with all their weird restrictions, plan which wonders you actually want to finish and which you don't, have backup plans in case wonders get stolen so your adjacency doesn't get destroyed, and make sure you have enough workable tiles left over after your wonder spam and extra districts.
And thats why Ludwig and germany in general isn't broken, cause the player has to invest a lot of time thinking about his moves and placements to farm any gains. Also Ludwig is not an upgrade over Frederik. (except Multiplayer). While Ludwig Mid- Endgame is vastly superior he still need to deal with germany's early game weakness. Thats an issues in Multiplayers and Singleplayer. Diffrence being in Singleplayer Frederik gets an headstart by easily conquering City States.
What happens to the YOUR tourism collected by Wonders that get stolen? Do you retain the pressure?
@@woodysmith2681 I dont think the tourism goes the uncompleted wonders, it goes to the districts AROUND the uncompleted wonders in the form of a +2 adjacency bonus for each... you'll retain tourism earned, but when the bonus goes down (when a wonder gets completed by someone else) then your future tourism earned will come more slowly... at least that's how I figure it works
@@Shadraen1 "Wonders, even unfinished, receive a +2 Culture Culture bonus from each adjacent District District. All Culture Culture adjacency bonuses provide Tourism Tourism after researching Castles."
The unfinished Wonder earns the adjacency bonus, collects the tourism. So, does the tourism go into your civilization's overall pool or does it get removed?
@@woodysmith2681 Sorry, you're right on the description, but you still shouldn't theoretically lose them. I'll have to test in game later, but once you have earned a tourist it appears in the culture victory screen as some number like "21/260" [tourists earned/highest culture defense]. So the number of tourists earned should not go down, but I'll have to test it... I planned on playing a Ludwig run pretty soon and will let you know
BTW, Basil's special ability (meaning "born purple") is named for the honorific used in Byzantium to refer to princes or princesses who were born while their father was the reigning emperor. This applied to Basil
Porphyo means purple, so I'm pretty certain his ability means purple genitals.
When playing Seyong, it could be interesting to run campus research grants for one turn every time you are one turn away from researching the first tech of the era. This should DRAMATICALLY enhance your science/turn and thus your culture boost
It will be interesting to find out if the campus grants really work together with Sejong's ability in the way you describe.
This seems to be exactly how it works, as it was shown off like this during the developer livestream (which is also uploaded in Potatos channel).
@@HulluHurtta Thanks for clarifying this. Nevertheless this seems to me to be the weakest new leader ability released so far.
@@thr4017 Out of these 3 yea may very well be, still seems like a consistent ability imho, Korea wasn't weak civ to begin with. Just the 2 others Sejong is bunched with are pretty bonkers :D
@HulluHurtta ah, I haven't seen all of that, thanks for clarifying!
Frederick has always felt like a weird combination leader. The extra military slot and combat strength against city-states always felt weird combined with the other abilities.
I never played Germany because of that. The Hanza is arguably the strongest UB in the game, but Frederick's leader ability was crap to me because I never want to capture city states as that loses their bonuses. Ludwig though is just insane - top tier production and culture together.
It was awesome seeing you come this far. I remember a lot of your earlier videos.
I appreciate what you have create, and all the enjoyment you have brought into the world.
This was so far the best leader pack that they have been released. Theodora its super fun to play, aswell ludwig.
With Theodora, having a blast. I got dance of the aurora when stuck near tundra near a natural wonder that added faith, religion was work ethic and had +8 cul/pro/faith on two cities early game, with several +7s easily enough. after adj bonus civics and farming on tundra its up to +24 on one! after grandmaster building it just is super fun, and can warmonger or build up cities. Makes Byzantium more flexible and many synergies, especially with secret socieities or heros i bet. Love it, well done devs!
Glad you enjoyed your trip and are back it, Potato! That live stream was good stuff. Also, I’m swearing off Ludwig II. Every single start had either absolute trash starts, except one (got Philosopher’s Stone from a tribal village on turn 5) in which I had a SERIOUS barb problem. So, Theodora is up next 😂
It was great seeing ya explain with the developers. Keep it coming potato!
played with ludwig and planned having a lot of unfinished wonders but I had so much production that my capital built wonders in like 5 turns. it was one of my fastest culture victories and I guess it could have been even faster if I hadn't missed to meet one civ until very late. district planning was a bit tricky but very fun.
Hey, love the content! Just wanted to laugh about the auto-captions for your video saying "potato big whiskey". Big 🥔 energy
Ludwig truly is AMAZING. Just broke my cultural victory record with a Turn 155 win, and Russia was in the game. Deity of course. I'll try Sejong next as he also seems super busted.
I did a TSL Mediterranean with Theodora and used Pamukkale, Work Ethic, and Scripture to get an 18 Culture, 18 Faith, 18 Production Holy Site
So with Sejong you need to turn all cities to campus research grants the turn before the new era rolls around?
Not quite. It’s when you are about to finish a tech from a new era, which is independent of the era clock
I had the same idea, however you should do this 1 turn before finishing that first tech, not the end of the era
I feel like people are sleeping on Sejong. Someones gonna find a way to cheese him and get an absurd amount of culture, calling it now
I’d say that Ludwig is a straight upgrade over Frederick even in Domination, because getting to corps and armies faster is at least as good as the extra military card slot.
Ludwig could potentially do naval dom as well. Pre-built frigates, venetian arsenal, early armadas... culture just gives you lots of options.
But you'll have to focus so much on wonder production that you'll get behind in research and military unit production
Was a fun surprise seeing you on the livestream ahem your vacation!
I was convinced on Wednesday that Sejong was the weakest of this bunch, partly because his ability wants you to focus on science (because it's the only win condition where you'll reliably get all boost moments) but then Seondeok just gets more science than he does. But I'm definitely going to crunch the numbers when I get to him, because I also underestimated Ramses II. Data, data, data!
Importantly, does it count the science from working a mess of campus research grants for a turn going into a new era?
@@fibonacci8 It does, the Devs did it in the showmatch
Timing the ability out with great scientist projects would be the way to keep the edge I guess.
I find it quite the opposite. I believe Sejong would smoke Seondeok in Science with those incredible culture smash n grabs
@@Xalroc I didn't mean he's worse at Science Victories, just that Seondeok gets a boost to the science *yield* which he doesn't.
I think potato feels bad saying how awful Korea is because the Civ team has been so nice to him
nah, korea is actually strong. You can beeline research grant projects and great scientists right before next era and make a huge amount of culture which is important in a science game.
I was playing Ludwig yesterday. Not only is it super awesome that you get the bonuses even if the wonders aren't complete, but you spam Hansa's and play wonder collector and actually finish them off.
What if you did a Theodora naval game where you use the dromons to spread religion early? Won't be a broken strat but could be fun.
One thing about a lot of the Leader pass leaders is that they are leaders for experienced players. They all require a good feeling for the mechanics of the game. For those I have played so far (about half), they are all a lot of fun and often require me to play different than I usually play. But, for an occasional player, the benefits will be wasted.
Theodora is the first flat land civ I’ve seen. With the farming bonus, you basically want each hippodrome, holy site to be surrounded by flat farmable land.
One curiosity I do have is how that interacts with pantheon abilities and especially the desert folk lore. Can you double your yields by farming deserts? [probably requires Petra]
You can't farm deserts in any case, unless it's a flood plain and then Petra wouldn't matter for those tiles.. You also can't farm jungles, forests or tundra (except as Canada) so those don't stack either. The best you could do is support those adjacencies with farms on terrain edges but it would be better to just use farms and save the pantheon slot for something else.
EDIT: Unless of course you spawn right next to so much of tundra or desert you don't have much choice of using farms
She can rush civil engineering super fast, allow you to build farm everywhere
I started a Theodora game last week, and together with an incredible Turn 4 relic this is the first Deity game where I do not really struggle at the start
Can confirm from my current game, religion an crusade push with Theodora is a legit strategy. Especially if you play an Island map and use the Dromon.
Ludwig and Theodora are honestly so fun
Enjoyed your trip to Firaxis HQ. Hope they continue to rely on the Wisdom of Potato for Civ 7. 😁
Man i wish Frederick the great or otto van Bismarck would get added to the game
I played Theodora, and yeah, even without the Tagma the Knight timing attack is insane.
Theodora with work ethic and Hildegard of Bingen... literally just an insane Holy site
Theodora for religious victory is fun. Plus you can get +6 on any holy site by surrounding it with farms. Couple that with Scripture for +12 holy sites, and with Work Ethic, that's +12 production.
I just feel like there is ALOT of missed opportunities in the leader pass. Don't get me wrong I think it's ok, but come on they couldn't add in the Neuschwanstein castle as a new wonder or throw in a new unique unit?
But those aren't leaders, that would have to be in a season pass or something
Dude like other people have stated. They're just reusing leftover assets. They're not gonna devote much into it pas the models...
You can add it as a mod from the workshop
King Louis II OF Bavaria the SWAN KING is Ace of Clubs ♣and a version of Michael Jackson REST IN POWER Blessings and HUGS 👑💜
I didn't realized that tourism bonus from culture adjacency bonus also counts the ones you get from theatre square.
Yeah, Ludwig is nuts. I played a game with him day 1, didn’t build any theater squares, and still won culture pretty early.
these new civs are crazy good
Ludwig was the first I played and I found him a lot of fun and really strong as well.
Just played Theodora. Had one Holy Site surrounded by farms, each farm granting +2 Faith and Culture -- crazy. Most of her Holy Sites were benefitting from crazy adjacency bonuses. Won a religious victory.
I have no idea how this game works but this was very interesting
I'm playing as Theodora as I watch, absolutely hammering everyone with holy sites + farms + work ethic + crusade + free heavy cavalry
Sir Potato I implore you that once the new VI Leader videos are complete that you check out the turn based game Terraformers, its new (quite luck based like Civ) but very interesting strategy. I think people here would enjoy watching it for its familiarity to Civ.
I’m not super intense about district placement and I got a +11, +8, and + 9 industrial district without much thought with Ludwig II
The best moment of playing Sejong- will come about when a player rolls over a tribal village and gets a free tech boost popping their classical era culture bonus prematurely…. Like when they’re still building up the per turn science…. Oh, the faces this make- priceless……..
He gets value out of unfinished projects. Now that's comedy.
river goddess + work ethic is the way to go with Theodora I think. should be trivial to get +5 or +6 adjacency holy sites on any river because the areas around those tiles also tend to be great for farmland, so +6 faith, +6 culture, +6 production, (all boosted to +12 with the policy card) +2 housing and + 2 amenities from a single district (and an additional +2 faith from GPP converting to faith after you found a religion) is a really strong bonus to any city , and can be done very early. Also try to get Hidegaard of Bingen, for an additional +6 (or +12) science in one of your cities
You don't need amenities or food really, you already have plenty of amenities and housing (from farms)
you are forgetting divine spark with a prophet point and Byzantine
already gets extra prophet point so 3 prophet point holy sites easy
Der König lebt!
I'd never have thought to hear a non-german pronounce Ludwig (almost) correctly.
Has anyone noticed certain Civs are missing after the latest update? Shaka is literally just no longer in my game after they added these new civs, he doesn't exist anymore and just isn't in the list of civs to pick from. Anyone else having this problem with any particular civs?
I knew that Ludwig is mad, that's why I subbed to Mogul Mail, he's way calmer
Theodora's adjacency bonuses are really difficult to get working. She's strong but really using farms is difficult, even on a Wetlands map.
Residents under Ludwig II are going to wonder why they keep building all the nice neighborhoods next to all of these ugly half completed wonders.
I can't wait for Varangian Harald
Boil em Mash em ❤️ Hey PoTaTO what do you think about a advanced River System in Civ7…with lets say Major Rivers(Rhine,Danube,Mississippi…)which could be used by Navys…you could Play Viking Raids have special districts like a Binnen-Harbor..Bridges..new Battle mechanics..Better adjacent yields…etc (and then contributaries like the Rivers er have now)❤️
Honestly I think Sejong would be considered good in any other pack but the problem is that he is in the same pack as Theodora and Ludwig who are both completely broken. I genuinely think Ludwig is now my favourite civ because he already has the insane Germany bonuses and gets stupidly high culture and tourism, plus Barbarossa’s leader abilities were never amazing.
I think what really bumps Ludwig up is, even if you're not going culture, that's still a massive about of culture for the tree, to get higher governments and civics faster than Frederick would, all for the cost of 1 military policy slot, which is probably the weakest policy slot once you hit mid-game.
We need another leader tier list after you played all these leaders
Potato please upload a Ludwig playthrough. It's already been a month.
I love how none of their traits have anything to do with building
Great video, I think Theodora is best at religious victories personally.
I would have loved if Ludwig had get another unit.
so with ludwig, you can basically start construction on a wonder, then swap out production to something else and get 2 culture. Like stonehenge or another AI sought after wonder which you have no chance of completing.
Tbh Ludwig should be it’s entirely own civilization. Bavaria is too culturally distinct from the rest of Germany. Can have new wonders like Neuschwanstein that gives tourism + great writer & artist points. A special building like a beer hall that provides +2 production + 3 culture & tourism. And maybe an ability where mountain tiles provide culture and tourism & a buff to ski resorts.
Anyone know when Mac users will be able to play these new civs? Havent received any of the updates since November or so
Hey Potato, you gonna do a Humankind playthrough of new expansion?
Theodora has such huge adjacencies, guaranteed, in almost every city.
I think Ludwig's Germany is still strong as a science civ but he now patches out the cultural deficit Freddy had.
Ludwig is definitely my favorite leader of the pass. He isn't batty like Theo, but I already dropped wonders I never planned to finish for road placement, so getting a bonus for it is very nice.
Sejong is super disappointing, honestly. They could have done so much more with him. I would have preferred getting an inspiration for researching a technology you got a eureka to from the same Era versus that ability.
I played him, he’s really good for culture
I really feel like Theodora just became my fav civ in this game. You can genuinely take advantage of only holy sites and it link your faith to your culture, so theoretically you can disregard théâtre square and if you’re lucky, plug in work ethic with desert or tundra pantheon. And you got the farms on top of it, the hypodrome and some bonus for military. It’s better than Germany and on par with Japan and Russia
There's BARBS in FARMS!
The only one I feel is good is Theodora.
Getting a high faith holysite with deserts or tundras and then adding work ethic with scripture is pretty great.
They other two just have confusing abilities; getting temporary boosts sounds difficult.
Yea. They're probably food on lower difficulty but on anything else they're just too situational. Ludwig will give you single digit culture for the most time while Barbarossa just gives you a couple extra cities.
Sejong just seems straight up garbage.
I agree. Theodora is the only one I look forward to try out of these.
I got my first sub 200 deity with with Theodora religious domination, she’s very strong
Ludwig II nearly bankrupted his dynasty building "useless" castles in the age of cannons and steam, and for that he was killed. Yet Neuschwanstein Castle is now one of most popular tourist destinations in Europe, and with an estimated 60 million visitors to date has paid for itself hundreds of times over. Neuschwanstein's lofty towers have inspired millions, including Walt Disney, who modeled Cinderella's Castle in Disneyworld after the iconic and glorious castle. It is also a powerful symbol of peace, both because Ludwig was criticized for building artistic monuments instead of investing into machines of war, and because it survived the Nazis despite Operation Werewolf orders to blow up the castle during the final days of Hitler's vile regime - the squadron that was supposed to carry out the act of destruction decided the castle was too breathtaking to destroy. As the castle contained vast amounts of artwork that the Nazis had stolen from France, it being spared from destruction saved a good portion of the art that survived World War 2 (the Monuments Men movie is based on this). In short, Neuschwanstein was a castle, but one that protected the artistic heritage of Europe from the barbarians that would burn it down. I like to think that this was Ludwig's intention all along, to gift his people a thing of beauty and wonder that would last the ages, a reminder that we humans can aspire to greater heights than the wanton violence of battle, and that the Mad King of Bavaria would be happy to know that he died a martyr for art and beauty.
I dont really undersatnd can you get them on console to because i have the leader pass and the anthology edition but i dont have any of these variant leaders
Interesting that they chose Ludwig II for germany considering he never was king/emperor of Germany.
Would have thought that someone like Bismarck would have fit better (also would be interesting to have him as a diplomacy focused civ, something that doesn't really exist yet).
I would pick ludwig over Frederick even for domination. The culture tempo is just too strong.
This leader pack is definitely the most 'fun' leader pack. While I'll argue that Sejong isn't amazing, he is interesting. And there are players (who aren't me) who will love him. Theodora is probably the right amount of 'good' and 'powerful' where she's viable, but not too good.
Wilhelm is just hilarious and stupid good, and I love his gameplay. Possibly bordering on 'too good' even. But he's great.
7:15 even if you are going domination I think Ledwig is better than Frederick. If I had a military policy card that just gave me an extra 10 culture I’d probably run that every game especially in the classical era/medieval era. Being able just to get free culture from just placing wonders is insane, plus you get additional specialty districts to even further improve the culture you gain. I think it’s going to require testing to see how easy it is just to place wonders around your specialty districts and how many wonders you can get, but honestly I feel like you can probably get an extra 10-20 culture alone from that. More culture though means earlier access to governments and corps/armies, which means that there’s a decent amount of time when Ludwig will have more policy cards than Fredrick just because he has a better government. And personally I don’t find the +7 combat strength against city states to be that useful, since often I feel like attacking other players just gives so many more advantages than wasting my army on city states.
Honestly I feel like Ludwig is going to be just extremely OP, I mean isn’t Fredrick already considered one of the best Civs in the game? Then on top of that you give him a ton of free culture, and also tourism if you’re going for a culture victory.
It’s funny how every leader pack has fallen into the same categories: one is strong but boring, one is more really weird (in a good way), and one is broke-ass busted
Anyone knows if Sejong’s ability work with one-time science from city projects or great scientists?
I’d assume it works for city projects since the earth satellite project also takes into action your projects when giving you culture, but I don’t know about scientists (I’d assume they would count but I don’t know if they count towards the earth satellite’s culture).
@@adamstadick2044 since its not per turn, scientists dont count. they do injections mid turn.
how did you reveal the complete map?
Man. Would really love if ANY of these last few updates would come to console 🙄
Just finished my Theodora game, turn 160 religious victory. Holy shit. Please Potato, when you play Theodora, play with secret societies mode and go Vampires for the Castle yields. I did not think to do this, but looking at my clustered +27 holy sites made me salivate thinking of the Castles.
I'm honestly pretty miffed the developers aren't planning on making the available to console players. So many cool leaders and interesting abilities and I'm over stuck playing that same ol civs.
I played a game with him and by turn like 30(?) I had triple the amount of culture as the next most cultured player, it was sick
But only for a turn...
Sejong is notably more powerful in faster games. On Marathon, his ability is almost useless. On Online speed, it's amazing.
Ludwig was the fastest that I ever pulled a culture victury win. Just spam wonders And arrange beutiful Districts around them.
Hey brother I don’t think you should upload a video like this without a video of new content. I’m just here wondering where is new gameplay to see
There is way too many culture dominant civs in this game it's beyond ridiculous.
You were gone?
These ones are most dull of all the new leader packs tbh, bring on the next ones!
Great analysis, except for the Dromon, which I feel is consistently underrated by everyone. I get that it is a naval unit and therefore not as impactful as it would be if it was a land unit. Even so, the actual power of the Dromon is insane. No other unit in the game gets the +10 combat strength against units. That's all units, land, sea, and ridiculously enough, air. In fact, no other unit in the game gets any combat bonus that applies as broadly to units without terrain, adjacency, continent, cassus beli, or some other condition applying. No other Unique Unit in the game gets extra range, but the Dromon does. Most Unique Units cost more than the unit they replace on average, but the Dromon is the same production cost as the unit it replaces. If you get Crusade as your religious belief, a Dromon in the waters of an enemy city following your religion is as powerful as a frigate vs units but without the upgrade, production, or niter costs of a Frigate.
But it's true power is from Taxis. Because it unlocks so early while enemy cities have such low population, each kill converts more cities than the later Tagma or other traditional Byzantium pushes. Potato's warrior monk strategy is great on land, but if you have access to the sea, a couple dromons will make an army of Warrior monks look weak. I admit that the dromon strategy is highly situational for Byzantium, but it is nevertheless incredibly powerful when it can be applied. Anyone who doubts should try the following challenge to see this in action. As either Byzantine leader on an islands or archipelago map, attempt a religious victory without using any religious units to spread your religion. If you are one of those players who likes to go random everything in each game, learning this strategy will make you a much more versatile player whenever you roll Byzantium.
So Theodora vs Georgia is fair? Both are supposed to be faith/culture civs.
In my opinion. Sejong's ability has too many downsides and random factors to be considered good and reliable.
You need to build and prepare your whole empire around the ability, which you sometimes cannot do. Some random stuff may happen, and the ability gets wasted.
1. Visit tribal hut -> randomly get free boost / free tech, the timing wasn't right, boom, wasted.
2. Recruit a Great Scientist to use for tech boosts, the same (Zhang Heng, a classical example).
3. Get Oxford University, and guess what? You can get tech at the wrong time. Delay Oxford? You may not be able to build it in time. Is it worth risking a good wonder for a single mediocre boost?
To some extent, the Great Library may make you waste Sejong's ability by discovering (via boosting while already researched 60%+) Engineering, Celestial Navigation, etc., and has the same choice problem as above.
4. Late game, if you're behind, spy operations grant you boost, another waste (as above).
Also, it's worth mentioning Margaret Mead may grant you more Culture than Sejong's ability for that era, which is a bit hilarious.
And if you have Heroes and Legends, Anansi definitely will (in the long run), and at a way more predictable pace. And faster. This is big.
The last thing is, you sometimes simply cannot optimize everything just for that single turn. If there are Immortals/Trebuchets/Scythians/Aztecs at your door, or bombers flying around, the decision to switch everything to research grants for even 1.2K culture may cost you your game.
You can obviously turn everything around by saying "but if I do everything around correctly and/or have some luck, results will be great and satisfying". To that, I say yes and no. Satisfying, yes, great - no.
This ability may help you if you're already doing good/have possibilities to optimize, etc. Getting free 200/500/1000 Culture is nice but unnecessary if you are already winning or generally doing fine. And you won't get that amount if you can't afford to build around it (sudden war, for example, natural disasters, barbs pillaging your Seowons), etc. Even if you could, would a single civic of two make that big of a difference in most cases?
Also, the need of taking some counter-productive (or maybe counter-scientific) actions and random stuff happening, adds much to Hangul's unreliability. Which is sad.
Overall, this ability is an auxiliary one and making it your game-defining seems like you are deliberately hindering yourself from the start.
This is fine if you like a challenge or are a masochist (I don't judge), but calling Hangul a good/great/fine is... well, nope.
Funny thing, I was looking forwards to Ludwig even though I prefer a more high-production / strong military playstyle. Despite knowing he'd be more in this direction.
Why?
Because Frederick is lackluster and I don't want +7 combat strength vs citystates. Imo the "combat bonus vs citystates" bonus is just boring and not great. It's also why I don't like mongols in civ5, despite, y'know, loving their unique units and intended playstyle.
In real life Ludwig was far from insane - he was a visionary who’s works of art have more than paid for themselves many times over and sponsorship of Wagner gave us the greatest operas of all time. He should and is rightly lauded as one of the great leaders
❤
My main issue with Sejong is he is so boring compared to the others. I don’t even mind a bad ability as long as it’s interesting. I already find Korea kind of a boring one to play.
Potato trying to theory craft Warrior monk being good despite last time he tried to make warrior monk viable it almost ruined his game lol
Do it again!