in about 5 days our son, aged 13, will wake up and find a full set of piet plans under the Christmas tree. we were at osh this year, and he had that stopped-in-his-tracks moment, insisted on buying WW's piet weight and balance book, spent every spare moment of the week with his nose in it. mom and i really can't wait to see his face on this coming morning!
Back in 1967 I was 16 years old and working for my girl friends Dad.He was just getting started to build a Pietenpol.I asked if I could help with the build and he was glad to have a few extra hands on the project.That airplane was the beginning of my flying experience that still goes on today.
I am so happy to see so many folks building and flying Tailwheel aircraft! When I learned to fly, in the early 70's, I insisted on getting all my Initial training on tailwheel aircraft! And, at that time, the mostly 20 something instructors had ZERO experience in them! I had to find an out of the way grass strip, with "Old timers" in their 60's to train with! IT WAS FABULOUS! Still my best memories ever!
Tailwheel !!! Thats the same as driving a car with a stickshift. I have 2000 hours flying a tailwheel Citabria years ago. Thats the only way to fly. Short field landing: at full throttle with the stick held tightly in your lap and not moving keeping the wings level only with the rudder pedals control your descent with throttle and the moment the tail wheel touches hit the brakes hard and be ready on the throttle to keep from nosing over. I got it down to under 50 feet. I didn't it too often though.
I bought a set of plans from Mr.Hoopman and he signed them and added a personal good luck comment on them . I was 17 years old back in 1981 ,the plans still remain in the tube waiting for the day to begin,life does get in the way for sure.
I'll be happy to take them off your hands and start it. As soon as I'm done building my Ultra-Piet. I'm on my seventh wing rib now. Every time I sit down each night to work, I imagine flying it across the open plains.
A neighbor at the airport where I grew up had one of these. He was a aerobatic pilot and I remember being in the front seat during some manouvers that the air camper definitely shouldn't have been doing:)
Love Dan Helsper's talk about the Piet. Very, very well spoken .Thank you Dan . In 1991 I purchased a GN-1 Aircamper ( Pietenpole with Piper wings and Continental 85 hp ) unfortunately, the previous owner had worked on the fuel delivery and installed the fuel line wrong and on a early flight it ran out of gas ( with over 12 gal on board0 and I dead sticked it into a fields .Didn't see that I was landing in a swale and hit the far side hard -collapsed the gear and flipped over.Broke my back , paralized from the arms down and slit my nose open. An angle appeared and flew me to the nearest airport where an ambulance was waiting and I was in emergency within 30 min of crashing. I was told my lungs had collapsed and I had a few minutes to live had I not been rescued. Told by the Dr. I would never walk again i started working hard to prove him wrong. A year later I won the Canadian national Sportsman Aerobatic championship in my Pitts Special. My accident was not the fault of th ePiet. It was my fault for not keeping my landing spot in sight and adjusting for the swale. Love the Piet and am considering building my own with the T engine. Dan's comments are inspiring. Thanks you . Dave
@@jamesringler987 the 4 point harness didn't prevent me from extending during the flip over and I was injured hitting the cockpit coaming. The spine injury was a result of the gear collapsing when I hit the ground at an angle that overloaded the suspension and the gear spread .The wood seat and foam cushion offered no protection.
I've had my set of Piet plans for at least 10 years now. I finally am about done getting my shop set up in the new house that can accommodate the build.
My cousin, Mr. Herbert Rowley, of Leicester Ny. built 2 of these machines in his garage in the early 1970’s. One for the Air Scouts & one for him. His machine had a home-converted Corvair power plant, with a A/C tractor 6 cyl. mag. on it. The usual “Pete” colors, yellow & black, wonder what ever happened to them. He used to fly out of Dick Cleveland’s field, in Genesso. He was my hero, an old-school mechanic whom could make anything, and a damn good job of it to be proud of!
Dan, just saw the nice article in KITPLANES magazine this month (my first physical copy) about you building a gorgeous 4 blade prop. Thanks for the inspiration and keep on trucking!
I read that the designer tried different airfoils on the plane and found that the one he selected provided the best performance. That gave me confidence.
I was raised over in Newmarket, N.H. . Live in N.M., now. Am 81 yrs old now and have been working on my pietenpol for5 yrs. May not live long enough to finish it but SO WHAT!! Have a great time with yours.
Family Stories - It was mentioned that Orrin Hoopman was a high schooler. Grandpa Orrin had an 8th grade education. He ordered the drafting tools from Sears and Roebuck. He courted by Grandmother by homebuilt airplane. The person that flew the plane with Bernard to The Cities was my Great Uncle Don Finke. I was told that Bernard taught him to fly in a day do he could make the trip. He went on to be a Northwest pilot for many, many years.
There were quite a number of these built from Heathkits in the fifties. The flying magazines I read when I was a kid had ads for them. Really cheap too.
I appreciate what they're doing and talking about this aircraft as I'm thinking I'm going to send in a retainer on one that I've looked at on the west side of Wisconsin. Well looked at in pictures and spoken with the owner over the phone. The only caution in this video is coming across like your slamming those who do purchase kits for experience reasons. I guess I'm a little sensitive to that because a good friend of mine is building a kit that is pretty drilled and there's still a tremendous amount of work involved in that. Fortunately he retired early and is able to get this airplane done in about 16 months and it would have been done in a year but he was building faster than he was able to get the series of kits from the manufacturer. Again. Great interviews on this airplane. I wanted one of these since I first saw them as a young kid. I currently have a Tailwind w10-8 and I plan to purchase one of these in addition to the tail end. Opposite ends of the spectrum flight wise but a purest form of flight in a way except maybe the glider guys might take issue that lol. Again just a caution about saying anything against or that could be taken as a slam to get builders themselves. Other than that great information. I did learn a few things especially about the corvair being the engine of choice later on. When I'm looking at is powered by a corvair.
Hi Chris, My UC is coming along slowly. I don't have alot of time during the week , I have a super busy schedule. It's been a year for me, just little at a time. I buy mostly kit parts, the guys at Hummel are great. I am going to the gathering in October.
Buying a kit is the best way to go, if thats what YOU like the best. If someone ask, "Did you build this yourself"? You could tell them you built it yourself, even though you assembled the parts, that someone else built for you, and thats ok. If you bought some plans, and actually did build it from scratch and were asked the same question, you could say, " Yes I did".
Model A Ford guy here - That radiator right in front of the forward seat looks like it blocks the view, doesn’t it? But it’s a tail dragger and with the controls in the aft seat the pilot doesn’t see directly ahead anyway! That being said, The Model A cooling system as designed for the car placed the radiator in front of, and slightly higher than the engine. It has a water pump (the earlier Model T started out without one!) but it is assisted by thermo-syphon action. In other words the hot water flows up into the top of the radiator and the cooled water sinks from the bottom of the radiator back to the engine. One certainly could move the radiator to be lower than the engine if there was provision to force the hot water down and the cooled water up. Also, the original system is not pressurized. The radiator cap is vented to the outside air. You’d need to take this into account as well.
Beautiful piece of work, but that radiator sticking up in front of the cockpit no only obstructs forward vision, but it seems to me it creates a scald hazard if the radiator or a coolant hose let go.
Thats it. I am building one. What type of spruce, and are there other wood species you can use? I have a saw mill and am going to collect the logs, mill the wood, and build the plane.
@@allenrussell7701 I would do this if I could. I'm building mine from scratch, but from carefully selected poplar stock, which is the only acceptable wood I could find at a reasonable price locally. Folks without a trailer can't just scoot to Ga every time you need a piece of wood.
Going a step further I believe last I heard some of Bernards Grandchildren are offering not only the plans but also a precut kit of wooden parts still tabbed or attached pin 4X 8 foot sheets of Plywood BTW that system is very common in Wooden Boat building and the use of CNC routing Machinery UA-cam has plenty of videos from Chesapeake Light Craft Company that shows their kits being made and how the process works I’ve also heard that there are many engine options for the Aircampers now available from the Corvair ,VW based , the Bombardeir 2 Strokes and even a Mazda Rotary engine that people have outfitted into these planes
Having a radiator (or really anything) blocking my forward view would drive me nuts, but then I'm not a tail-dragger enthusiast. To each their own, though!
Definitely drop that rad down behind the prop at an angle with a nice protective grill. No Way would I have Hot Coolant up in front of me just waiting to leak or overheat & blow . No Way ......
I was thinking why not put it in the space between the landing gear the only thing it could be damaged by is the ground if you fuck up the landing but at that point you are on the ground and safe
Call Bert’s Model A in Englewood, CO. They sell remanufactured Model A engines as well as all the components if you want to repair or rebuild it yourself. My 1928 engine is with them right now, getting a complete rehab including a counterbalanced crankshaft, all new pistons, connecting rods, modern bearings, and so on. There are at least 3 other commercial sources, as well as more than 100 local clubs affiliated with Model A Restorers Club (MARC) and Model A Ford Club of America (MAFCA). Many club members have extra engines. You know, just in case.
If I'm not mistaken, those engines didn't have a water pump. They use the thero-syphon cooling system. Hot water rises up from cylinder head to top of radiator, sinks to the bottom of radiator when cooling and gets drawn back into bottom of cylinder block by upward flow of hot water out of top. The radiator has to be mounted close to and above the engine to work.
There is a steel-tube fuselage plan out there somewhere. Have one of those CNC fuselage tube cutting companies create a kit of perfect fitting tubes to weld yourself or hire a fabricator. Spend the $ to have a factory quality steel frame that's twice as strong, and better in a crash. Save yourself countless hundreds of hours and months of work, gain potential airframe longevity and strength to fit more powerful engines, Conti 65 from a cub, etc. Or just do it the original way and find a Model A Ford Engine. But that's really not ideal, IMO.
damnit, I'm a complete speed demon. When I heard the guy say that it cruises at 80 that put me off... I'm on a huge budget, but still want to go fast. I'll never be satisfied until I break Mach 1.1
people were just more capable back then. there are a lot of reasons for this, but it's so sad to see how far we've really fallen. Pietenpol made an airplane with no plans and used a regular car engine to power it, then when he wanted to show plans, he hires a literal child taking a drafting class to make his plans he would actually show others. think about all dozen or so reasons why that would be impossible to do. Not nearly impossible, I mean it would not happen. Not a gifted student that he knew was special and capable or whatever. it was just some random high school student. this kills me.
in about 5 days our son, aged 13, will wake up and find a full set of piet plans under the Christmas tree. we were at osh this year, and he had that stopped-in-his-tracks moment, insisted on buying WW's piet weight and balance book, spent every spare moment of the week with his nose in it. mom and i really can't wait to see his face on this coming morning!
I would have gone absolutely nuts if I'd gotten a gift like that when I was 13. Awesome.
Instablaster.
I have a Piet
Back in 1967 I was 16 years old and working for my girl friends Dad.He was just getting started to build a Pietenpol.I asked if I could help with the build and he was glad to have a few extra hands on the project.That airplane was the beginning of my flying experience that still goes on today.
what happened with the girlfriend? =-)
That black Pietenpol is one of the most beautiful airplanes I have ever seen, congratulations to the builder.
I am so happy to see so many folks building and flying Tailwheel aircraft!
When I learned to fly, in the early 70's, I insisted on getting all my Initial training on tailwheel aircraft!
And, at that time, the mostly 20 something instructors had ZERO experience in them! I had to find an out of the way grass strip, with "Old timers" in their 60's to train with!
IT WAS FABULOUS! Still my best memories ever!
Tailwheel !!! Thats the same as driving a car with a stickshift. I have 2000 hours flying a tailwheel Citabria years ago. Thats the only way to fly. Short field landing: at full throttle with the stick held tightly in your lap and not moving keeping the wings level only with the rudder pedals control your descent with throttle and the moment the tail wheel touches hit the brakes hard and be ready on the throttle to keep from nosing over. I got it down to under 50 feet. I didn't it too often though.
At least tailwheel aircraft have their third wheel in the correct place.
I bought a set of plans from Mr.Hoopman and he signed them and added a personal good luck comment on them . I was 17 years old back in 1981 ,the plans still remain in the tube waiting for the day to begin,life does get in the way for sure.
I'll be happy to take them off your hands and start it. As soon as I'm done building my Ultra-Piet. I'm on my seventh wing rib now. Every time I sit down each night to work, I imagine flying it across the open plains.
A neighbor at the airport where I grew up had one of these. He was a aerobatic pilot and I remember being in the front seat during some manouvers that the air camper definitely shouldn't have been doing:)
Lol! Thanks for the laugh! Glad your still here!
Love Dan Helsper's talk about the Piet. Very, very well spoken .Thank you Dan . In 1991 I purchased a GN-1 Aircamper ( Pietenpole with Piper wings and Continental 85 hp ) unfortunately, the previous owner had worked on the fuel delivery and installed the fuel line wrong and on a early flight it ran out of gas ( with over 12 gal on board0 and I dead sticked it into a fields .Didn't see that I was landing in a swale and hit the far side hard -collapsed the gear and flipped over.Broke my back , paralized from the arms down and slit my nose open. An angle appeared and flew me to the nearest airport where an ambulance was waiting and I was in emergency within 30 min of crashing. I was told my lungs had collapsed and I had a few minutes to live had I not been rescued. Told by the Dr. I would never walk again i started working hard to prove him wrong. A year later I won the Canadian national Sportsman Aerobatic championship in my Pitts Special. My accident was not the fault of th ePiet. It was my fault for not keeping my landing spot in sight and adjusting for the swale. Love the Piet and am considering building my own with the T engine. Dan's comments are inspiring. Thanks you . Dave
Was there anything you could of done to prevent your back from being broken was it just a lap belt or did you have multi point harness?
@@jamesringler987 the 4 point harness didn't prevent me from extending during the flip over and I was injured hitting the cockpit coaming. The spine injury was a result of the gear collapsing when I hit the ground at an angle that overloaded the suspension and the gear spread .The wood seat and foam cushion offered no protection.
I've had my set of Piet plans for at least 10 years now. I finally am about done getting my shop set up in the new house that can accommodate the build.
My cousin, Mr. Herbert Rowley, of Leicester Ny. built 2 of these machines in his garage in the early 1970’s. One for the Air Scouts & one for him. His machine had a home-converted Corvair power plant, with a A/C tractor 6 cyl. mag. on it. The usual “Pete” colors, yellow & black, wonder what ever happened to them. He used to fly out of Dick Cleveland’s field, in Genesso. He was my hero, an old-school mechanic whom could make anything, and a damn good job of it to be proud of!
Dan, just saw the nice article in KITPLANES magazine this month (my first physical copy) about you building a gorgeous 4 blade prop.
Thanks for the inspiration and keep on trucking!
I read that the designer tried different airfoils on the plane and found that the one he selected provided the best performance. That gave me confidence.
Clark Y, just like the Spirit of St. Loois
@@bingosunnoon9341 Not a Clark Y. It's a Pientepol design.
Purchased my plans the week after OSH! Thanks for the great content and can't wait to get started on the build!
where u buy it from?
Just love that plane.... nice looking build ! The prop is awesome.
SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL ! What a work of art.
They used that Model A engine for everything! Great story, great plane with history!
Bought a Piet yesterday.... NH69 Ossipee, NH
Nice
I was raised over in Newmarket, N.H. . Live in N.M., now. Am 81 yrs old now and have been working on my pietenpol for5 yrs. May not live long enough to finish it but SO WHAT!! Have a great time with yours.
Bernie Pietenpol was a genius! Plans available almost 100 years later!
Family Stories - It was mentioned that Orrin Hoopman was a high schooler. Grandpa Orrin had an 8th grade education. He ordered the drafting tools from Sears and Roebuck. He courted by Grandmother by homebuilt airplane. The person that flew the plane with Bernard to The Cities was my Great Uncle Don Finke. I was told that Bernard taught him to fly in a day do he could make the trip. He went on to be a Northwest pilot for many, many years.
Thanks, a great review of the Pietenpol for the uninitiated...
12:21 Is that a Ford Trimotor taking off behind the guy talking?
There were quite a number of these built from Heathkits in the fifties. The flying magazines I read when I was a kid had ads for them. Really cheap too.
I appreciate what they're doing and talking about this aircraft as I'm thinking I'm going to send in a retainer on one that I've looked at on the west side of Wisconsin. Well looked at in pictures and spoken with the owner over the phone. The only caution in this video is coming across like your slamming those who do purchase kits for experience reasons. I guess I'm a little sensitive to that because a good friend of mine is building a kit that is pretty drilled and there's still a tremendous amount of work involved in that. Fortunately he retired early and is able to get this airplane done in about 16 months and it would have been done in a year but he was building faster than he was able to get the series of kits from the manufacturer. Again. Great interviews on this airplane. I wanted one of these since I first saw them as a young kid. I currently have a Tailwind w10-8 and I plan to purchase one of these in addition to the tail end. Opposite ends of the spectrum flight wise but a purest form of flight in a way except maybe the glider guys might take issue that lol. Again just a caution about saying anything against or that could be taken as a slam to get builders themselves. Other than that great information. I did learn a few things especially about the corvair being the engine of choice later on. When I'm looking at is powered by a corvair.
Great video!
Hi Chris,
My UC is coming along slowly. I don't have alot of time during the week , I have a super busy schedule. It's been a year for me, just little at a time. I buy mostly kit parts, the guys at Hummel are great. I am going to the gathering in October.
Work of art
What’s with the radiator , isn’t there suppose to be a wind screen where the radiator is? How do you see?
What's the take off speed of the pietenpol?
Nice video! Thanks for sharing...
Buying a kit is the best way to go, if thats what YOU like the best. If someone ask, "Did you build this yourself"? You could tell them you built it yourself, even though you assembled the parts, that someone else built for you, and thats ok. If you bought some plans, and actually did build it from scratch and were asked the same question, you could say, " Yes I did".
not an expert but can the radiator be put below/under the engine instead ? i mean under the nose.
Model A Ford guy here -
That radiator right in front of the forward seat looks like it blocks the view, doesn’t it? But it’s a tail dragger and with the controls in the aft seat the pilot doesn’t see directly ahead anyway! That being said, The Model A cooling system as designed for the car placed the radiator in front of, and slightly higher than the engine. It has a water pump (the earlier Model T started out without one!) but it is assisted by thermo-syphon action. In other words the hot water flows up into the top of the radiator and the cooled water sinks from the bottom of the radiator back to the engine. One certainly could move the radiator to be lower than the engine if there was provision to force the hot water down and the cooled water up. Also, the original system is not pressurized. The radiator cap is vented to the outside air. You’d need to take this into account as well.
Beautiful piece of work, but that radiator sticking up in front of the cockpit no only obstructs forward vision, but it seems to me it creates a scald hazard if the radiator or a coolant hose let go.
I’d fly that in a heartbeat!
Thats it. I am building one. What type of spruce, and are there other wood species you can use? I have a saw mill and am going to collect the logs, mill the wood, and build the plane.
what type of logs will you collect? Allen Russell akrusell40@gmail.com
@@allenrussell7701 I would do this if I could. I'm building mine from scratch, but from carefully selected poplar stock, which is the only acceptable wood I could find at a reasonable price locally. Folks without a trailer can't just scoot to Ga every time you need a piece of wood.
thank you for the video
That's a beautiful airplane! My only concern is that if it pops a radiator hose, the pilot is going to get a face-full of scalding hot water.
E se o radiador fosse posto abaixo do motor, liberando a vista frontal e melhorando a aerodinâmica?
think i would have moved that radiator
fifty years ago .
where would you move it to?
@@flyswryan any where that you didn't have it in your face .. even two smaller one's
No water pump required
@@logoseven3365 Id trade that for a better view ,,, even off set the thing .
Or you could buy/find an old VW beetle engine then you dont need a radiator being that they were air cooled
Nice little airplane. Thanks for all the info. Interesting. For it fly?
Going a step further I believe last I heard some of Bernards Grandchildren are offering not only the plans but also a precut kit of wooden parts still tabbed or attached pin 4X 8 foot sheets of Plywood BTW that system is very common in Wooden Boat building and the use of CNC routing Machinery UA-cam has plenty of videos from Chesapeake Light Craft Company that shows their kits being made and how the process works I’ve also heard that there are many engine options for the Aircampers now available from the Corvair ,VW based , the Bombardeir 2 Strokes and even a Mazda Rotary engine that people have outfitted into these planes
I wonder if you could mount up a aircooled harley davidson in one.
great video!
first time seeing one of those. sure would like to hear it run..( the old ford engine)..
Having a radiator (or really anything) blocking my forward view would drive me nuts, but then I'm not a tail-dragger enthusiast. To each their own, though!
My thinking too. I wouldn't tolerate that radiator there for a second. I understand why it's there, but it's a deal breaker for me.
you can see through it...
I want to build one with st croix aerial supplemental biplane plans seem cool and would make a splash at Oshkosh
Definitely drop that rad down behind the prop at an angle with a nice protective grill.
No Way would I have Hot Coolant up in front of me just waiting to leak or overheat & blow .
No Way ......
I was thinking why not put it in the space between the landing gear the only thing it could be damaged by is the ground if you fuck up the landing but at that point you are on the ground and safe
Visibility would be my concern.
Been that way since the 1930s!!!! Seems to work just fine……
Couldn't the design incorporate a horizontal radiator, like an Albatross?
Ive helped stich a few ribs
Where do you find a model A engine today?
There are still lots out there you just need to start digging.
@Bighorn44 None how much for it? I'm in the market for one.
Call Bert’s Model A in Englewood, CO. They sell remanufactured Model A engines as well as all the components if you want to repair or rebuild it yourself. My 1928 engine is with them right now, getting a complete rehab including a counterbalanced crankshaft, all new pistons, connecting rods, modern bearings, and so on. There are at least 3 other commercial sources, as well as more than 100 local clubs affiliated with Model A Restorers Club (MARC) and Model A Ford Club of America (MAFCA). Many club members have extra engines. You know, just in case.
I was wondering why the radiator could not be mounted on top of the wing
longer tubing = more weight. Keep it simple, keep it light.
If I'm not mistaken, those engines didn't have a water pump. They use the thero-syphon cooling system. Hot water rises up from cylinder head to top of radiator, sinks to the bottom of radiator when cooling and gets drawn back into bottom of cylinder block by upward flow of hot water out of top. The radiator has to be mounted close to and above the engine to work.
It would over heat without using a pump
beautifull
There is a steel-tube fuselage plan out there somewhere. Have one of those CNC fuselage tube cutting companies create a kit of perfect fitting tubes to weld yourself or hire a fabricator. Spend the $ to have a factory quality steel frame that's twice as strong, and better in a crash. Save yourself countless hundreds of hours and months of work, gain potential airframe longevity and strength to fit more powerful engines, Conti 65 from a cub, etc. Or just do it the original way and find a Model A Ford Engine. But that's really not ideal, IMO.
Stewarts Dope may be water based, but it has Iso Cyanide in it.
damnit, I'm a complete speed demon.
When I heard the guy say that it cruises at 80 that put me off...
I'm on a huge budget, but still want to go fast.
I'll never be satisfied until I break Mach 1.1
Has anyone ever widened the fuselage 1 foot to make it a 3 seat, like some wacos or spartans?
Just bought a Piet 2 months a go... NH69
Eye of beholder?
I'm gonna throw a Subaru engine in my plane once its finished, hope it'll work
should not show the prop bolt safety wire close up ! What a piece of history !
Huh?
Can an amateur built experimental plane be sold?
Arthur Davison nope, you only need a mechanic for the annual condition inspection (in the usa). In Camada you don't even need him for that.
@@Baloo555 Thanks
Of course you can. I bought a Miniplane from the builder
And Yes, back to...... darn what was that phrase again ??? 😁😁
woodshop? :)
Building
people were just more capable back then. there are a lot of reasons for this, but it's so sad to see how far we've really fallen. Pietenpol made an airplane with no plans and used a regular car engine to power it, then when he wanted to show plans, he hires a literal child taking a drafting class to make his plans he would actually show others. think about all dozen or so reasons why that would be impossible to do. Not nearly impossible, I mean it would not happen.
Not a gifted student that he knew was special and capable or whatever. it was just some random high school student. this kills me.
What should you know about the Pietenpol? There is no dihedral in the wing. Just like the Ryan Spirit of St. Louis, the spar is flat.
❤
Looks like one of the prop bolts at about the 3 o'clock location is incorrectly safety-wired.
1 minute in and 2 adverts??
Not a true parasol wing.
HUH?
Hi
I wouldn't fly behind a Corvair engine for anything.
You really should do some research
Well, it's better than a Volkswagen engine in some ways, but there are better choices out there.
@@CaliforniaFly Not not aviation engines.
@@c172215s Not not? A-65 Continentals are the way to go.
@@CaliforniaFly Not near the hp. 3 times the cost and arguably not any more reliable.
Oh, boy. Is this you? Please keep your creepy self in California.
Peit Reunions becon them?
Not a fan of old designs. Imagine driving a model T today instead of a Tesla Model 3.
That makes zero sense.
@@DrewLSsix I would tend to agree but in aviation there is a lot of extreme stagnation
Some people like driving a model T
Yeah, '68 Camaros are crap because they are 50 years old.
Imagine driving a Tesla model 3 instead of a Model T, Hmmmm Ying for Yang!