I would love to see passenger train service return to the island. If there was hourly service with modern trains running up and down the island, I'd definitely take it, and I know I'm not the only one. We have this infrastructure, and we should be making good use of it.
We do not have the infrastructure. What you see is rotted and rusted. It needs a complete replacement. Much of it runs through sensitive ecosystem so changing the trusses will cost a fortune and take years. You have some land that can be better used.
Agreed. Obviously the infrastructure needs work, thus the costed plans, but the value of the rail line will only increase as the population on the island increases.
@@billmacgougan619 nobody has 'costed' the real cost of a functional rail system on the island, but we can look to other regions who did it. Like Ottawa who built 20km of rail for over $4 billion dollars, over much more amenable landscape than here.
Being an actual project with expenditures sure does make the numbers more reliable than the cost estimates provided here. However, they do not sound like remotely similar projects. And estimates are usually all you can have in advance. I'm sure they would benefit from an update (they are 4 years old now, I think). I'm not making this claim but, for fun, if we are pulling out of context info in without examining it, I could just as easily say "Nothing makes a stronger case for the feds and province kicking in (say) $b for a 300 km line that will mean much more to Islanders (including some serious reconciliation work) than the fact that Ottawa just spent 4 times that amount for a mere 20km extension that will mean no where near as much to their constituants."
@@isaacgriffin5690 Our roads and highways run through sensitive ecosystems and cost a fortune to build and maintain yet I don't see you objecting to those. Nice selective criticism.
Rail going up the length of an island... as apposed to a boat? That is far more effecient for frieght. No rail system, especially in NA, is financially viable just transporting people.
@tracksidebcofficial wow, I've only worked in logistics, Business intelligence, and the expanding arms of IT for 41 years, but wtf would I know right? You need to stop burning bridges. Apparently, you don't know how social media works.
I haven't seen anybody address the issue of 'clean up' after there's a train derailment! It wouldn't be if, but when! A scenic walking trail to observe nature is far more easy on the environment and LESS COST!
The rail line connects 75% of the island population - it can and should be a valuable, sustainable piece of transport infrastructure for the 21st century. It should be converted into a modern, intercommunity commuter train, with plenty of passing stages to allow regular trips in both directions throughout the day and particularly during commuting time. It is a damn shame the Johnson st bridge does not have rail, but a terminus in the railyard with buses into dt victoria would suffice. A line like this will reduce traffic on the malahat, dramatically reduce emissions, and support housing by enabling people working in the cities to live outside of town and commute in via park and ride rail. We should look to place like Scotland with similar density and great use of rail.
Scotland has also recently pioneered a unique system of flag stop indicators that allow them to service even the most rural of stations, which is some thing that could be used here as well!
@ghostrider-be9ek that's a totally insane figure. The UK's HS2 - admittedly a complete boondoggle - is a brand new high-speed line built through a heavily settled country, and it is going to cost 100bn. E&N is an existing route running largely through crownland, and no one is suggesting a world-class high-speed line. Knock the zeros off your figure and you are probably close.
@@ghostrider-be9ek the idea that public transit should "pay for itself" is self-defeating and unreasonable. Do roads and highways "pay for themselves"? Not in tolls or fares no - they pay for themselves in wider economic and social benefit. Why hold public transit to a different standard? A true cost benefit analysis, including the fares, and vast economic benefits to the entire island, avoided carbon costs, and the social benefits will I am certain, make a pretty compelling ROI over the lifetime of the line. But regardless, we need to dispelled this idea that our public transport systems should be self-funding. That faulty notion will always preclude the visionary "build it and they will come" perspective that leads to long term growth (and indeed, led to the construction of the E&N, not to mention the transcontinental railway, in the first place). I for one am happy to spend money on big, visionary pieces of public infrastructure that will benefit current and many future generations.
The Dayliner, as noted in the video, was a quant quirky tourist train that ran once per day in each direction. The growing population of Vancouver Island needs a practical modern rail line that can move a lot of people and freight.
I feel like (or at least I hope) "rebuilding" is overstating it. According to the Condition Assessment, significant work is required along the entire line, but their cost estimates are based on much of what is in place remaining.
@tracksidebcofficial Yes. Exactly. Competing with the Almighty Car, fighting climate change and improving urbanism requires a solid investment. Fighti
@@eugenetswong The last Dayliners I'm aware of still operating in North America run between Sudbury and White River, Ontario, to serve a few small communities and cottages that have no road access. The line is the CPR main line that runs through the woods. (The Trans-Canada Highway runs to Sault Ste. Marie then north along the shore of Lake Superior, paralleling the railway almost the entire rest of the way from White River across the country.)
great video...as the population continues to explode on Vancouver Island, we need to consider all forms of moving people and freight. Southern Vancouver Island, which has the largest density on the island, has not kept up with the infrastructure needed to move the increasing population. It is ironic that there are four lane separated highways in mid VI, but still only one lane north and one lane south over the Malahat. The E&N corridor already exists and it would be shortsighted not to use it for transporting people and goods. Trains are an important transportation method all over the world. Vancouver Island has close to 1 million people now compared to the much lower population when the train ceased operations. It is time to make it work for the growing population of the island. We know that the population will continue to grow...
Exactly. People proposing a multi use path are short sighted and unimaginative. Rail could completely change how the island functions and actually allow people to live car free or light. Really hope this happens soon, seems there is some more political energy behind it, and if anyone is going to make this happen, it'll be Eby
Slow because railbed was pretty much toast. Years later will need to be totally re-done with new ties, ballast, tamping. Throw in trestles that need to be replaced or heavily repaired and you're talking $$$. Despite the optimistic dreamers thinking it's a great idea, rail service is never coming back. Too much money to invest for an uncertain profit. Nobody is that stupid to heavily invest in uncertainty.
I remember the old fashioned (early 1900s passenger car) train that used stop near my grandmothers property in Chase River in the 70s and 80s. Its a very fond memory., Watching the train from the porch every morning at 10am in the summertime.
It’s hard to say what the future holds. I have been advocating for rail and transit on the island for close to 32 years and we are no closer to a solution now than we were 10 or 15 years ago
I regret to inform you that our city council in Port Alberni has torn up the tracks into the town as of June 2024. The heritage society trains are stuck where they are now I guess. Very sad for rail history on VI
While living on the Victoria harbour for 9 years, I took the E&N train up island, avoiding the dreaded Malahat highway. It was a lovely trip filled with regular users The train was shut down when the Johnson Street Bridge was replaced. The train station was located at the end of the bridge, just a stone’s throw from downtown Victoria and a nice stroll from my condo at Dockside Green. I thought they would replace the station, at least at the vacant Roundhouse down the road. But alas, no. The entire harbour is a nightmare with 27 different entities owning varies sections. It’s an odd city that way and I’m glad I no longer have to witness the dumb indecisiveness due to these entities’ self interests.
I lived next door the a senior engineer for island rail over a decade ago and he agreed it would be a staggering amount to rebuild it to operational requirements. The funny thing is graham bruce who more or less had made it his thing to get it going again was also a member of the governing party that let it go along with bc rail. All it is now is a dog walking path, homeless express and pit of embezzlement
I had no idea there was a train on the Island in my lifetime. I live in Ontario and was out there on a canrail pass in 2000 - but don’t remember taking this. I took a bus from the North island where the ferry from Prince Rupert lands and took a bus to Nanaimo. :-(
Great Video. I know there are conversations ongoing and hopefully they will find a way to do what would be best for the Island. Our population is growing and the value of a modern practical rail service within an integrated transportation network is only going to increase. The evidence suggests that how our region develops in the coming decades will be changed dramatically by having rail. A continued focus on cars and trucks and more roads has been shown to lead to perpetual sprawl rapidly consuming our land base and degrading communities. A focus on passenger rail is one required ingredient for the smart growth that will lead to more compact, vibrant, equitable and prosperous communities and support the type of inter-urban travel that our interconnected larger region relies on. However, it is a change in mindset.
What is amazing that the passenger service lasted as long as it did. There was a neglect of rail maintenance for a number of years slowing the train down causing the train to be late. It finally got to the point when it became unsafe to run trains on the tracks. After the inland island highway was completed back in 2001 there was a marked decrease in frieght service when it became more viable for truck transport up the island. After the closure of 2011 there were negotiations by three levels of government plus First Nations that failed to come to an a agreement for restoring the roadbed to bring back the passenger train. Now with the lack of intercity bus service since Greyhound pulled out restoration of passenger rail service would be desirable but impractical. It would be too expensive to do that. Perhaps a commuter rail service between Victoria and Langford or maybe Duncan may not be out of reach.
The loss of the annual 7000/9000 carloads of Port Alberni pulp mill freight in December 2001 [Due to the mill switching to trucking] was the real downfall of the E&N. The ICF never made re-establishing the Port Sub freight traffic a priority, and this was huge tactical error, dooming the railway to a long , slow slide into oblivion.
Unless the government mandates the movement of goods via rail instead of road, the line just doesn't move enough traffick to be profitable. The exception is making Port Alberni into an Intermodal port to relief the port of Vancouver. Moving intermodal freight from Port Alberni to North America can greatly relieve Vancouver of its traffick backlog.
I'm not an expert but I think they could incentivize this, without mandating it. Governments have spent decades incentivizing truck transport and car-supremacy. That looks like an unwise approach going forward, so shifting some of the transportation infrastructure investment to other modes should suffice.
Since when is a public commuter rail service supposed to be profitable? Do roads make a profit? BC Ferries? Public transit? Island Rail should be run as a public service that does offset operating costs through the farebox, just like transit.
I ride my fat tire bicycle down a section near where I live. Still I would like to see trains. My Grandfather was a CNR Engineer. (Engineman). I miss trains on the Island.
Fun Fact: Those gates blocking access to the Vancouver Island back country are all opened by the same key ( for firefighting emergencies). I had a 'private' key back in the 80's and 90's....
My home on Galerno rd in Campbell river still had basic ownership from the rail company,if they ever wanted my land from 80 years ago they still somewhat owned it.
My idea: Electrify the line for goods transportation only. Get rid of diesel powered train engines and replace them with fully electric units which are quiet and efficient. This would free up the Malahat which is notoriously a pinch point for traffic congestion.
I live in Victoria, and what this Island desperately needs is public transit other than buses. A commuter train from the West Shore and from Nanaimo would do wonders for BC's worst traffic.
Great job on this story. Never fails to boggle my mind why our rail line on the island lies dormant. A blaitant waste of such great transportation solutions. Very sad watching it rot away before our eyes knowing what an asset it has been in the past.😢
Fantastic video highlighting the endless problems that this railway has had. It’s a great shame that the railway cannot be run. I wonder if it can be run by volunteer groups as some groups do in England. It would be fantastic if the track could be replaced ie sleepers and rails totally replaced. Involve your local government. CP aught to part finance it as they are minting it on the slow train to Banff $3000 a ticket.
The required trestles and up grades to the infrastructure will cost well over half a billion dollars. The largest group of people who will use it would be tourists in the summer. Public transit in the towns it runs through isn’t convenient enough to make the journey worthwhile. I took this trip three times in the seventies and it was nice. But I had someone pick me up in Courtney. I can’t b see this line opening again.
The Island hwys, especially the Malahat 'Drive' are becoming increasingly busy and dangerous for uninitiated drivers, especially tourists. Thousands of commuters from Nanaimo south use it twice a day at speeds much higher than it is designed for, even with all the upgrades over the years. And of course, having some sort of rail bottom to top of the Island and from east to west will become increasingly important as time amd technology changes and grows, especially for moving freight from and through the Island. We can reclaim the corridor we have and rebuild it or we can stupidly let it go and pay millions, if not billions, to recreate it in another 50 years when sanity resumes.My bet is on stupidity.
Let’s get more action then talk. Money used talking should be put into action. I would use the railway just to see the areas where it goes through. So different from the highway. Plus a nice way to go to Victoria from Nanaimo for the day.
Mosaic, which owns/governs much of the E&N land grant, as parent company and owner of the forest companies directly cutting trees, is itself owned, in large part, by ‘B.C. Investment Management Corp’, which is the B.C. government employees pension plan. So in fact the stakeholders locking everybody on the Island out of those lands, is our own B.C. Government, by proxy. The people setting the rules Mosiac must follow, deciding cut volumes, environmental rules, exporting raw logs, making profits, and denying the public access to the lands, is the government itself. This is a massive conflict of interest hardly anybody seems to be aware of. Mosiac is only “private” in concept. Being owned by the BC government pension fund, it might as well be the government. Look it up and you will see.
Would it be possible to restore the south end of the E&N for passenger service? A commuter train between Victoria and the Western Communities is worth consideration. Vic West is the problem and not a convenient terminus for people working downtown -- I see the problem would be to replace the bridge that was lost when the old Johnson St. bridge was demolished. Another thing to consider is replacing the line over the Malahat -- every time there is an accident on the Malahat highway the south end of the Island is cut off -- a compelling reason to have an alternative to go over the Malahat. It would be less expensive than building a bridge from the north end of the Saanich penninsula.
The cost to fix up the rail line is now around $6 million per km. As was evident before the line closed down, there just isn't anywhere near the ridership to justify the costs. You'd need tens of thousands of people paying $100+ per month to even think about... scratch that ($100 x 10,000 = $1 million/m) isn't even going to pay the interest on fixing up Vic to Nam. Sorry, never going to happen. I doubt even ripping the tracks out for a trail is economically sound given how expensive everything is these days. Most realistic thing to do is leave as is and weedwhack annually until the trellises give out in a few decades.
Rail to Trail makes the most sense at this point - there simply isnt the demand to sustain passenger rail service on the island. At best its a touristic curiosity. Better to develop multi-use strategies similar to other deactiated rail lines on Vancouver Island. Cycling, hiking and walking on the old trestles of Cowichan railway is excellent and helps to develop services along this route. Its a draw for both locals and tourists alike. Developing a similar route from Victoria up to Courtenay would similar. And cheaper.
You spent about 3 seconds on the nub of the problem: the idea than tens of millions of dollars could bring any kind of rail to the island. Meanwhile in Ottawa they've managed to commission a mere 20km of usable functional rail for a cost of north of $4 BILLION dollars. In a place that is largely flat and close to industries that can construct such rail, supported by a city of over 1 million local residents and province of 15 million. The best the Island Corridor org can hope to produce is a hobby-tourist line running an antique train on 10km from downtown to Langford, a couple times a day, if they can scare up 25 million bucks for a totally non-functional transport rail system. Instead we should turn the corridor into a useful rails-to-trails route. Then when Nanaimo and Victoria each have populations of over a million residents we can justify building actual commuter quality frequent and good capacity rail system for 10 or 20 billion dollars, like you would find in NorthEast USA or Europe. So.. dream on but let us have a bike trail please, for now.
This railway needs to be turned into one multiple use trail. This would better suit the growing trends of hiking/biking/equestrian activities on the island and help promote healthy lifestyles and connect people to communities which will increase revenue for these places. Also much more affordable to maintain than a full blown railway.
Most people have absolutely no idea the costs of rebuilding this line. Just the bridges would bankrupt this province. Each mile, at least 2million. The best use for this land is to put a fresh water pipeline on it. That would make sense.
The line doesn't need to be rebuilt. Various areas of the track and a few bridges need repairs. That's not alot to ask, if you see just how much the Federal Government along with the Province, are spending on the lower mainland's skytrain from Surrey to Langley - 2.4 million. I think we here on Vancouver Island deserve our share of funding for an integral transportation method.
The big problem is everytime they want to bring it back they want the train to start in Victoria, then head N, then be back in Victoria by night. Good for tourists, bad for commuters who would actually use it reliably. Too much money, not enough density, bad management, bad engagement. An ignorant dream. Born, raised, and live on VI btw.
I don't think they did say "no." First Nations have not been happy with the direction of the ICF and one nation has indicated it wants the land the track is on (a relatively small section).
First Nations are represented in the ICF. How many billions have been spent on highways and ferry terminals? Rail is far more efficient and a fast, frequent and well networked service will stimulate the Island economy...and do far less damage than highways, huge parking lots and cars.
@@ub59 how many millions is it going to take then, to get it safe to operate on, how many millions is it going to take to put trains on the tracks, how many millions is it going to take to pay an operator and staff, how many millions is it going to take to run marketing and ticket sales daily to break even, how many millions is it going to take to pay FN bands for thru fare in their land. How many millions will be paid out for insurance and accidents that will happen each year. How many billions are we deep at that point. I love rail, would love nothing more to see rail on the island, grew up taking rail on the island. Three major points kill it, the rail line its self, downtown terminal the CoV killed and FN right away thru their territory.
@@SNS8R03 Last year alone the federal government subsidized the Alberta oil industry to the tune of $18.3 billion. You're looking at over $200B in the last decade, mainly for unworkable carbon capture and storage. Canada can afford a $36B pipeline that will never work as described. Canada also has a $2 trillion annual economy. The E&N corridor land asset is also a sunk cost that will never need to be paid for again. And we can't afford commuter rail? Seriously? Canada has a massive infrastructure deficit and a steep challenge on climate change. Put them together with electrification and reprioritized expenditures and you've got the beginnings of a plan. Partner with FN to resolve design and routing issues and work with them on rail-oriented development on their land that generates long term revenue while meeting housing demand, like Vancouver's three FNs in partnership with the feds on several significant projects. Partner with all Island cities and the private sector to invest in housing, offices, commercial and retail development near stations for permanent revenue. Vancouver's Expo Line was the first rapid transit line in the Metro and it received lots of similar flack back then, mainly about costs. Today the 100++ billion dollars in development it stimulated is going stronger than ever, 40 years later, and SkyTrain is now widely accepted as vital to the region and has expanded accordingly. The payback is measured by orders of magnitude. Moreover, half the operating costs are covered by the farebox. You don't get any return whatsoever from continuing the Island's profoundly unfortunate car dependency.
I'm thinking it's time we accept the reality that neither the Province nor the Federal Government have any intention or interest to fund restoration of rail service on Vancouver Island. Seems to me, the best case is to repurpose the corridor as a multi-use island trail.
Repurpose the section between Langford and Mill Bay as a replacement for the Malahat Highway. Rail bed for northbound traffic existing highway for southbound.
@@bruce876rail is cheaper than road to build operate and maintain, the government straight up said they aren’t planning on building any more roads as they bankrupt Us but trains don’t
Pourquoi pas le deux? Trails are low-maintenance but are also ableist and very rarely get people travelling intercity. This railway right of way is already intercity in extent
Really hope this doesn't happen. Would be so depressing to accept that rail will never happen. Multi use path is nice, but it is a vast underutilization of this amazing corridor. Even if it takes another decade, we need to wait until we build a train
If you think the land was "stolen" from the aboriginals, what gives you the right to go rebuilding a railway on it? Why do you think "reducing fares" was a simple matter to do? If there is a little piece of the railway right of way that is now owned by a Band, that ought to end forever any dream of reconciling with any other use of it.
Working with First Nations there may be a solution. It's conceivable that some track will have to be realigned to make it work but for the most part it may just be a matter of negotiating the right sort of operating agreement and ownership that benefits First Nations and other stakeholders. Many things that are worthwhile and that do eventually happen are not necessarily "easy." The fact that these conversations with First Nations and other stakeholders are happening now means there are folks, likely more informed than you or I, that think there might be a solution that works.
First Nations are already in partnership with Island Rail Foundation management. How much government money has alteady been sunk into highways and ferry terminals in FN territory over the last 140 years? As for stealing land from FN to give Dunsmuir an 8,000 square km land grant, not paying the original owners, denying them any legal representation whatsoever and then shoving them onto tiny reserves would be called theft in most books, except perhaps yours.
@@lesliemacmillan9932 It’s guaranteed not to be free. The provincial and federal government are going to spend billions upon billions on infrastructure regardless. The feds currently have over $100 billion in the pipeline for rail infrastructure over the next few years. The amount to fully establish the entire new rail service (based on the ICF business case) is less than the cost of just 1KM of Skytrain. So, yes, it will not be free, no option is free (including more roads). It would be ideal if Vancouver Island could get a tiny portion of the funds allocated to rail infrastructure.
It's just that, a dream. The abandoned railway should be torn up and turned into a trail, it'd be far more useful. The icf just looks like a never -ending grift to me.
This is not economically feasible, never has been. This can only operate at huge subsidies, and current and former governments knew this. Show us a business plan that does not include tax payers being hit every year. There is a reason you haven't done that, it does not make sense. Once you get to Victoria, you are stuck, no connecting bus routes. I know, just add more at tax payers expense.
I would love to see passenger train service return to the island. If there was hourly service with modern trains running up and down the island, I'd definitely take it, and I know I'm not the only one. We have this infrastructure, and we should be making good use of it.
We do not have the infrastructure. What you see is rotted and rusted. It needs a complete replacement. Much of it runs through sensitive ecosystem so changing the trusses will cost a fortune and take years. You have some land that can be better used.
Agreed. Obviously the infrastructure needs work, thus the costed plans, but the value of the rail line will only increase as the population on the island increases.
@@billmacgougan619 nobody has 'costed' the real cost of a functional rail system on the island, but we can look to other regions who did it. Like Ottawa who built 20km of rail for over $4 billion dollars, over much more amenable landscape than here.
Being an actual project with expenditures sure does make the numbers more reliable than the cost estimates provided here. However, they do not sound like remotely similar projects. And estimates are usually all you can have in advance. I'm sure they would benefit from an update (they are 4 years old now, I think).
I'm not making this claim but, for fun, if we are pulling out of context info in without examining it, I could just as easily say "Nothing makes a stronger case for the feds and province kicking in (say) $b for a 300 km line that will mean much more to Islanders (including some serious reconciliation work) than the fact that Ottawa just spent 4 times that amount for a mere 20km extension that will mean no where near as much to their constituants."
@@isaacgriffin5690 Our roads and highways run through sensitive ecosystems and cost a fortune to build and maintain yet I don't see you objecting to those. Nice selective criticism.
I live in the Comox valley and wholeheartedly agree the rail should be revived. Thanks for making this vid and watch out for those creepy trees.
I'm thinking we should bring a modern rail service moving people and freight... seems like the best use case of a railway to me.
could you elaborate ? like (Passenger trains with a few light freight cars for food / parcles) or just having both operate on the same lines?
Rail going up the length of an island... as apposed to a boat? That is far more effecient for frieght. No rail system, especially in NA, is financially viable just transporting people.
@tracksidebcofficial wow, I've only worked in logistics, Business intelligence, and the expanding arms of IT for 41 years, but wtf would I know right? You need to stop burning bridges. Apparently, you don't know how social media works.
@@isaacgriffin5690this is just about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
I haven't seen anybody address the issue of 'clean up' after there's a train derailment! It wouldn't be if, but when! A scenic walking trail to observe nature is far more easy on the environment and LESS COST!
The rail line connects 75% of the island population - it can and should be a valuable, sustainable piece of transport infrastructure for the 21st century. It should be converted into a modern, intercommunity commuter train, with plenty of passing stages to allow regular trips in both directions throughout the day and particularly during commuting time. It is a damn shame the Johnson st bridge does not have rail, but a terminus in the railyard with buses into dt victoria would suffice. A line like this will reduce traffic on the malahat, dramatically reduce emissions, and support housing by enabling people working in the cities to live outside of town and commute in via park and ride rail. We should look to place like Scotland with similar density and great use of rail.
Scotland has also recently pioneered a unique system of flag stop indicators that allow them to service even the most rural of stations, which is some thing that could be used here as well!
Do you have 100 billion dollars to rebuild the entire network? No, prob not.
@ghostrider-be9ek that's a totally insane figure. The UK's HS2 - admittedly a complete boondoggle - is a brand new high-speed line built through a heavily settled country, and it is going to cost 100bn. E&N is an existing route running largely through crownland, and no one is suggesting a world-class high-speed line. Knock the zeros off your figure and you are probably close.
@@michaellenaghan3640 yea you are prob correct , 100 million + is still insane for something that would never pay for itself
@@ghostrider-be9ek the idea that public transit should "pay for itself" is self-defeating and unreasonable. Do roads and highways "pay for themselves"? Not in tolls or fares no - they pay for themselves in wider economic and social benefit. Why hold public transit to a different standard? A true cost benefit analysis, including the fares, and vast economic benefits to the entire island, avoided carbon costs, and the social benefits will I am certain, make a pretty compelling ROI over the lifetime of the line. But regardless, we need to dispelled this idea that our public transport systems should be self-funding. That faulty notion will always preclude the visionary "build it and they will come" perspective that leads to long term growth (and indeed, led to the construction of the E&N, not to mention the transcontinental railway, in the first place). I for one am happy to spend money on big, visionary pieces of public infrastructure that will benefit current and many future generations.
I used to take the train from Courtenay to Duncan for work every week in the early 90's.
Hard to believe there was 3 rail lines on Saanich Peninsula alone. You can still see the right-of-ways.
Thanks for the history and insights, well done!
really hope the via rail dayliner runs again 🙏
@tracksidebcofficialWhy is the Dayliner a thing of the past?
The Dayliner, as noted in the video, was a quant quirky tourist train that ran once per day in each direction. The growing population of Vancouver Island needs a practical modern rail line that can move a lot of people and freight.
I feel like (or at least I hope) "rebuilding" is overstating it. According to the Condition Assessment, significant work is required along the entire line, but their cost estimates are based on much of what is in place remaining.
@tracksidebcofficial Yes. Exactly. Competing with the Almighty Car, fighting climate change and improving urbanism requires a solid investment. Fighti
@@eugenetswong The last Dayliners I'm aware of still operating in North America run between Sudbury and White River, Ontario, to serve a few small communities and cottages that have no road access. The line is the CPR main line that runs through the woods. (The Trans-Canada Highway runs to Sault Ste. Marie then north along the shore of Lake Superior, paralleling the railway almost the entire rest of the way from White River across the country.)
just discovered this channel and its awesome! high quality n all, glad to have stumbled upon it
great video...as the population continues to explode on Vancouver Island, we need to consider all forms of moving people and freight. Southern Vancouver Island, which has the largest density on the island, has not kept up with the infrastructure needed to move the increasing population. It is ironic that there are four lane separated highways in mid VI, but still only one lane north and one lane south over the Malahat. The E&N corridor already exists and it would be shortsighted not to use it for transporting people and goods. Trains are an important transportation method all over the world. Vancouver Island has close to 1 million people now compared to the much lower population when the train ceased operations. It is time to make it work for the growing population of the island. We know that the population will continue to grow...
Exactly. People proposing a multi use path are short sighted and unimaginative. Rail could completely change how the island functions and actually allow people to live car free or light. Really hope this happens soon, seems there is some more political energy behind it, and if anyone is going to make this happen, it'll be Eby
The E&N was incredibly slow and not very scenic when it was operating. I can’t see there would be much demand for this service these days.
Slow because railbed was pretty much toast.
Years later will need to be totally re-done with new ties, ballast, tamping. Throw in trestles that need to be replaced or heavily repaired and you're talking $$$.
Despite the optimistic dreamers thinking it's a great idea, rail service is never coming back. Too much money to invest for an uncertain profit.
Nobody is that stupid to heavily invest in uncertainty.
I took the daytime E&N from victoria to Nanaimo in the early 2000s - it was actually not bad for scenery as its way different than the highway
@@GPz84 it was never a money making operation, subsidized from day 1. It would take millions a year to keep it operating.
Thanks for this video. I enjoyed your videography at the French Creek location.
the dayliner, Halifax to Windsor N.S. ran in the 60's. it was awesome. go to the city in the morning and back for
"supper"
I remember the old fashioned (early 1900s passenger car) train that used stop near my grandmothers property in Chase River in the 70s and 80s. Its a very fond memory., Watching the train from the porch every morning at 10am in the summertime.
More like 1950’s era cars in 1970-80
@@gusbradley3846 maybe. they seemed much older, but I was 10 so what did I know.
It’s hard to say what the future holds. I have been advocating for rail and transit on the island for close to 32 years and we are no closer to a solution now than we were 10 or 15 years ago
Would love to see rail service return! Anything that would give people transprtation options would be great!!
I regret to inform you that our city council in Port Alberni has torn up the tracks into the town as of June 2024. The heritage society trains are stuck where they are now I guess. Very sad for rail history on VI
While living on the Victoria harbour for 9 years, I took the E&N train up island, avoiding the dreaded Malahat highway. It was a lovely trip filled with regular users
The train was shut down when the Johnson Street Bridge was replaced. The train station was located at the end of the bridge, just a stone’s throw from downtown Victoria and a nice stroll from my condo at Dockside Green. I thought they would replace the station, at least at the vacant Roundhouse down the road. But alas, no.
The entire harbour is a nightmare with 27 different entities owning varies sections.
It’s an odd city that way and I’m glad I no longer have to witness the dumb indecisiveness due to these entities’ self interests.
I lived next door the a senior engineer for island rail over a decade ago and he agreed it would be a staggering amount to rebuild it to operational requirements. The funny thing is graham bruce who more or less had made it his thing to get it going again was also a member of the governing party that let it go along with bc rail. All it is now is a dog walking path, homeless express and pit of embezzlement
It was promised to be up and running 12 years ago
I had no idea there was a train on the Island in my lifetime. I live in Ontario and was out there on a canrail pass in 2000 - but don’t remember taking this. I took a bus from the North island where the ferry from Prince Rupert lands and took a bus to Nanaimo. :-(
Great Video. I know there are conversations ongoing and hopefully they will find a way to do what would be best for the Island. Our population is growing and the value of a modern practical rail service within an integrated transportation network is only going to increase. The evidence suggests that how our region develops in the coming decades will be changed dramatically by having rail. A continued focus on cars and trucks and more roads has been shown to lead to perpetual sprawl rapidly consuming our land base and degrading communities. A focus on passenger rail is one required ingredient for the smart growth that will lead to more compact, vibrant, equitable and prosperous communities and support the type of inter-urban travel that our interconnected larger region relies on. However, it is a change in mindset.
What is amazing that the passenger service lasted as long as it did. There was a neglect of rail maintenance for a number of years slowing the train down causing the train to be late. It finally got to the point when it became unsafe to run trains on the tracks. After the inland island highway was completed back in 2001 there was a marked decrease in frieght service when it became more viable for truck transport up the island. After the closure of 2011 there were negotiations by three levels of government plus First Nations that failed to come to an a agreement for restoring the roadbed to bring back the passenger train. Now with the lack of intercity bus service since Greyhound pulled out restoration of passenger rail service would be desirable but impractical. It would be too expensive to do that. Perhaps a commuter rail service between Victoria and Langford or maybe Duncan may not be out of reach.
The loss of the annual 7000/9000 carloads of Port Alberni pulp mill freight in December 2001 [Due to the mill switching to trucking] was the real downfall of the E&N. The ICF never made re-establishing the Port Sub freight traffic a priority, and this was huge tactical error, dooming the railway to a long , slow slide into oblivion.
The Bay Area Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transport (SMART) is a good model to use. Hourly service between cities.
Unless the government mandates the movement of goods via rail instead of road, the line just doesn't move enough traffick to be profitable. The exception is making Port Alberni into an Intermodal port to relief the port of Vancouver. Moving intermodal freight from Port Alberni to North America can greatly relieve Vancouver of its traffick backlog.
I'm not an expert but I think they could incentivize this, without mandating it. Governments have spent decades incentivizing truck transport and car-supremacy. That looks like an unwise approach going forward, so shifting some of the transportation infrastructure investment to other modes should suffice.
Since when is a public commuter rail service supposed to be profitable? Do roads make a profit? BC Ferries? Public transit? Island Rail should be run as a public service that does offset operating costs through the farebox, just like transit.
I ride my fat tire bicycle down a section near where I live. Still I would like to see trains. My Grandfather was a CNR Engineer. (Engineman). I miss trains on the Island.
Fun Fact: Those gates blocking access to the Vancouver Island back country are all opened by the same key ( for firefighting emergencies). I had a 'private' key back in the 80's and 90's....
Not anymore
My home on Galerno rd in Campbell river still had basic ownership from the rail company,if they ever wanted my land from 80 years ago they still somewhat owned it.
My idea: Electrify the line for goods transportation only. Get rid of diesel powered train engines and replace them with fully electric units which are quiet and efficient. This would free up the Malahat which is notoriously a pinch point for traffic congestion.
Whattttt, the guy who my town is named after is the second son of the guy who made this rail line??? (Dunsmuir)
I live in Victoria, and what this Island desperately needs is public transit other than buses. A commuter train from the West Shore and from Nanaimo would do wonders for BC's worst traffic.
Great job on this story. Never fails to boggle my mind why our rail line on the island lies dormant. A blaitant waste of such great transportation solutions. Very sad watching it rot away before our eyes knowing what an asset it has been in the past.😢
It's not an asset as a railway! It would suck an immense amount of tax coffers. Just so a few train aficionados could train spot.
Fantastic video highlighting the endless problems that this railway has had.
It’s a great shame that the railway cannot be run. I wonder if it can be run by volunteer groups as some groups do in England. It would be fantastic if the track could be replaced ie sleepers and rails totally replaced.
Involve your local government. CP aught to part finance it as they are minting it on the slow train to Banff $3000 a ticket.
The required trestles and up grades to the infrastructure will cost well over half a billion dollars. The largest group of people who will use it would be tourists in the summer. Public transit in the towns it runs through isn’t convenient enough to make the journey worthwhile. I took this trip three times in the seventies and it was nice. But I had someone pick me up in Courtney. I can’t b see this line opening again.
Keep the rail line for passenger service .
With passenger and freight rail on the Island now a thing of the past, is BC now positioned to leave the Dominion?
The Island hwys, especially the Malahat 'Drive' are becoming increasingly busy and dangerous for uninitiated drivers, especially tourists. Thousands of commuters from Nanaimo south use it twice a day at speeds much higher than it is designed for, even with all the upgrades over the years. And of course, having some sort of rail bottom to top of the Island and from east to west will become increasingly important as time amd technology changes and grows, especially for moving freight from and through the Island. We can reclaim the corridor we have and rebuild it or we can stupidly let it go and pay millions, if not billions, to recreate it in another 50 years when sanity resumes.My bet is on stupidity.
Let’s get more action then talk. Money used talking should be put into action. I would use the railway just to see the areas where it goes through. So different from the highway. Plus a nice way to go to Victoria from Nanaimo for the day.
Cannot see it coming back. The rail base needs to be worked on. The ties are shot, would need to be replaced. We are talking huge money.
I think the fate of the line was sealed when the province completed the new route of highway 19.
Yah but trains are profitable and cars aren’t soooo I wouldn’t be si sure
Mosaic, which owns/governs much of the E&N land grant, as parent company and owner of the forest companies directly cutting trees, is itself owned, in large part, by ‘B.C. Investment Management Corp’, which is the B.C. government employees pension plan. So in fact the stakeholders locking everybody on the Island out of those lands, is our own B.C. Government, by proxy. The people setting the rules Mosiac must follow, deciding cut volumes, environmental rules, exporting raw logs, making profits, and denying the public access to the lands, is the government itself. This is a massive conflict of interest hardly anybody seems to be aware of. Mosiac is only “private” in concept. Being owned by the BC government pension fund, it might as well be the government. Look it up and you will see.
a business could run pedal cars or motorized cars for sightseers on some parts of the line.
Would it be possible to restore the south end of the E&N for passenger service? A commuter train between Victoria and the Western Communities is worth consideration. Vic West is the problem and not a convenient terminus for people working downtown -- I see the problem would be to replace the bridge that was lost when the old Johnson St. bridge was demolished. Another thing to consider is replacing the line over the Malahat -- every time there is an accident on the Malahat highway the south end of the Island is cut off -- a compelling reason to have an alternative to go over the Malahat. It would be less expensive than building a bridge from the north end of the Saanich penninsula.
The cost to fix up the rail line is now around $6 million per km. As was evident before the line closed down, there just isn't anywhere near the ridership to justify the costs. You'd need tens of thousands of people paying $100+ per month to even think about... scratch that ($100 x 10,000 = $1 million/m) isn't even going to pay the interest on fixing up Vic to Nam. Sorry, never going to happen. I doubt even ripping the tracks out for a trail is economically sound given how expensive everything is these days. Most realistic thing to do is leave as is and weedwhack annually until the trellises give out in a few decades.
Clear the rails and implement a multipurpose trail!
Rail to Trail makes the most sense at this point - there simply isnt the demand to sustain passenger rail service on the island. At best its a touristic curiosity. Better to develop multi-use strategies similar to other deactiated rail lines on Vancouver Island. Cycling, hiking and walking on the old trestles of Cowichan railway is excellent and helps to develop services along this route. Its a draw for both locals and tourists alike. Developing a similar route from Victoria up to Courtenay would similar. And cheaper.
Your “colonialism bad” shtick is so lame. Enough with the self hatred. Trains are dope and so is the history and construction of BC.
So much pink emanating from the head, it's hard to know where the colon it's occupying begins.
You spent about 3 seconds on the nub of the problem: the idea than tens of millions of dollars could bring any kind of rail to the island. Meanwhile in Ottawa they've managed to commission a mere 20km of usable functional rail for a cost of north of $4 BILLION dollars. In a place that is largely flat and close to industries that can construct such rail, supported by a city of over 1 million local residents and province of 15 million. The best the Island Corridor org can hope to produce is a hobby-tourist line running an antique train on 10km from downtown to Langford, a couple times a day, if they can scare up 25 million bucks for a totally non-functional transport rail system. Instead we should turn the corridor into a useful rails-to-trails route. Then when Nanaimo and Victoria each have populations of over a million residents we can justify building actual commuter quality frequent and good capacity rail system for 10 or 20 billion dollars, like you would find in NorthEast USA or Europe. So.. dream on but let us have a bike trail please, for now.
Who is going to pay for this
This railway needs to be turned into one multiple use trail. This would better suit the growing trends of hiking/biking/equestrian activities on the island and help promote healthy lifestyles and connect people to communities which will increase revenue for these places. Also much more affordable to maintain than a full blown railway.
Most people have absolutely no idea the costs of rebuilding this line. Just the bridges would bankrupt this province. Each mile, at least 2million. The best use for this land is to put a fresh water pipeline on it. That would make sense.
The line doesn't need to be rebuilt. Various areas of the track and a few bridges need repairs. That's not alot to ask, if you see just how much the Federal Government along with the Province, are spending on the lower mainland's skytrain from Surrey to Langley - 2.4 million. I think we here on Vancouver Island deserve our share of funding for an integral transportation method.
The big problem is everytime they want to bring it back they want the train to start in Victoria, then head N, then be back in Victoria by night. Good for tourists, bad for commuters who would actually use it reliably. Too much money, not enough density, bad management, bad engagement. An ignorant dream. Born, raised, and live on VI btw.
First Nations said No! The rail beds, and rails are done, the bridges, the switchers are seized. Replacing everything is into the billions.
I don't think they did say "no." First Nations have not been happy with the direction of the ICF and one nation has indicated it wants the land the track is on (a relatively small section).
First Nations are represented in the ICF. How many billions have been spent on highways and ferry terminals? Rail is far more efficient and a fast, frequent and well networked service will stimulate the Island economy...and do far less damage than highways, huge parking lots and cars.
@@ub59 how many millions is it going to take then, to get it safe to operate on, how many millions is it going to take to put trains on the tracks, how many millions is it going to take to pay an operator and staff, how many millions is it going to take to run marketing and ticket sales daily to break even, how many millions is it going to take to pay FN bands for thru fare in their land. How many millions will be paid out for insurance and accidents that will happen each year. How many billions are we deep at that point. I love rail, would love nothing more to see rail on the island, grew up taking rail on the island. Three major points kill it, the rail line its self, downtown terminal the CoV killed and FN right away thru their territory.
@@SNS8R03 Last year alone the federal government subsidized the Alberta oil industry to the tune of $18.3 billion. You're looking at over $200B in the last decade, mainly for unworkable carbon capture and storage. Canada can afford a $36B pipeline that will never work as described. Canada also has a $2 trillion annual economy. The E&N corridor land asset is also a sunk cost that will never need to be paid for again. And we can't afford commuter rail? Seriously? Canada has a massive infrastructure deficit and a steep challenge on climate change. Put them together with electrification and reprioritized expenditures and you've got the beginnings of a plan. Partner with FN to resolve design and routing issues and work with them on rail-oriented development on their land that generates long term revenue while meeting housing demand, like Vancouver's three FNs in partnership with the feds on several significant projects. Partner with all Island cities and the private sector to invest in housing, offices, commercial and retail development near stations for permanent revenue. Vancouver's Expo Line was the first rapid transit line in the Metro and it received lots of similar flack back then, mainly about costs. Today the 100++ billion dollars in development it stimulated is going stronger than ever, 40 years later, and SkyTrain is now widely accepted as vital to the region and has expanded accordingly. The payback is measured by orders of magnitude. Moreover, half the operating costs are covered by the farebox. You don't get any return whatsoever from continuing the Island's profoundly unfortunate car dependency.
I'm thinking it's time we accept the reality that neither the Province nor the Federal Government have any intention or interest to fund restoration of rail service on Vancouver Island. Seems to me, the best case is to repurpose the corridor as a multi-use island trail.
Repurpose the section between Langford and Mill Bay as a replacement for the Malahat Highway. Rail bed for northbound traffic existing highway for southbound.
@@bruce876rail is cheaper than road to build operate and maintain, the government straight up said they aren’t planning on building any more roads as they bankrupt Us but trains don’t
Pourquoi pas le deux? Trails are low-maintenance but are also ableist and very rarely get people travelling intercity. This railway right of way is already intercity in extent
Really hope this doesn't happen. Would be so depressing to accept that rail will never happen. Multi use path is nice, but it is a vast underutilization of this amazing corridor. Even if it takes another decade, we need to wait until we build a train
I like how the comments assume it will cost billions. Would be curious to know how they got that
If you think the land was "stolen" from the aboriginals, what gives you the right to go rebuilding a railway on it?
Why do you think "reducing fares" was a simple matter to do?
If there is a little piece of the railway right of way that is now owned by a Band, that ought to end forever any dream of reconciling with any other use of it.
Working with First Nations there may be a solution. It's conceivable that some track will have to be realigned to make it work but for the most part it may just be a matter of negotiating the right sort of operating agreement and ownership that benefits First Nations and other stakeholders. Many things that are worthwhile and that do eventually happen are not necessarily "easy." The fact that these conversations with First Nations and other stakeholders are happening now means there are folks, likely more informed than you or I, that think there might be a solution that works.
@@billmacgougan619 How much government money will it cost?
First Nations are already in partnership with Island Rail Foundation management. How much government money has alteady been sunk into highways and ferry terminals in FN territory over the last 140 years? As for stealing land from FN to give Dunsmuir an 8,000 square km land grant, not paying the original owners, denying them any legal representation whatsoever and then shoving them onto tiny reserves would be called theft in most books, except perhaps yours.
@@lesliemacmillan9932 It’s guaranteed not to be free. The provincial and federal government are going to spend billions upon billions on infrastructure regardless. The feds currently have over $100 billion in the pipeline for rail infrastructure over the next few years. The amount to fully establish the entire new rail service (based on the ICF business case) is less than the cost of just 1KM of Skytrain. So, yes, it will not be free, no option is free (including more roads). It would be ideal if Vancouver Island could get a tiny portion of the funds allocated to rail infrastructure.
@@ub59 Have fun.
It would cost a billion dollars to make the line useable, just between Victoria and Duncan. It will never be curable.
It's just that, a dream. The abandoned railway should be torn up and turned into a trail, it'd be far more useful. The icf just looks like a never -ending grift to me.
This is not economically feasible, never has been. This can only operate at huge subsidies, and current and former governments knew this. Show us a business plan that does not include tax payers being hit every year. There is a reason you haven't done that, it does not make sense. Once you get to Victoria, you are stuck, no connecting bus routes. I know, just add more at tax payers expense.