As someone on the other side of 50 whose only child is a young daughter I can't help but think this is still a story about love and the lengths we'll go to do what we feel will either honor that love or assuage the pain from the grief we've experienced. I am in no way judging others who have stated, "the first game is about love, while this one is about revenge." It's just that my perspective on life may be different...you can't revenge or avenge someone purposefully without the strong bond of love that causes you to take such action...and to the extreme extent and detriment those fateful decisions impacted the primary characters and the other characters in their lives, herein. I can't ever imagine losing my little girl. I can't imagine ever experiencing that twice, so I absolutely know where Joel is coming from in TLOU and why he did what he did and why I'd likely do the same (sorry world). And I DO GET that he would do it all over again even while he is on the floor in front of Abby in TLOU2. So, yeah...they told a story about love. The lengths that it will drive you. The anger it will cause you. The pain that it will burden you. The rage it will fuel you. The possibly unnecessary sacrifices it will put upon you. And in the denouement the realization that others love as hard, as angry, and as meaningfully, with all the same consequences, as you. That is a pretty damn impressive gamut to run in any medium. It is an extraordinary one to run in gaming.
I think my big issue with Joel’s choice is that it was a very selfish move. He did it for himself because he just didn’t want to let Ellie go, knowing full well that it was not what she wanted. I understand his motivations but I don’t like when people are like “he saved her!”. No, he didn’t. He did exactly the opposite of what she wanted. His actions were completely self serving.
NoctemAeternusMusic I wouldn’t say it was selfishly done for himself, he told Marlene it ain’t up to the fireflies to decide what happens with her life. If they simply discussed all options and spoke with both of them maybe Joel wouldn’t have lost all sense of reason. The “doctors” didn’t even wait for her to wake up and ask her questions like normal doctors would. They seem to be just as murderous to me. Also shoving around the guy who travelled so far to deliver the cure is plain idiocy. The fireflies seemed to me like they were in such a hurry to be praised as hero’s instead of terrorists that they forget how to properly do their jobs. But I do have to agree and don’t see either side as fully being in the right but that’s one of the things that makes the story so interesting wouldn’t you agree? And he saved her and himself both in a sense that they got to live somewhat normal lives for a couple of years afterwards. You can argue that Ellie held this against Joel but you can’t deny that they both got to live a pretty decent decent life til they ran into Abby and the cycle of revenge continued.
I’m 18 minutes into the review and it’s already one of the best and accurate reviews of the game I’ve seen. Though I never had the conflict of joel following Abby. Tommy said that Jackson gave everyone a chance to start over. Joel has been living in relative comfort for 5 years, not killing people, not being attacked by hunters, having a safe community and trading with people travelling through, he’s not the same guy he was 5 years ago because he isn’t in the environment he was always in where it was kill or be killed. It irks me when people say it isn’t canon, clearly it was. He got used to his new life here and didn’t have the same suspicious mind set he had back then, otherwise he wouldn’t have even attempted to save Abby in the first place, he’d have let her get mauled. There is a lot of growth to Joel’s character and the second game gives us a brief chance to see who he really is, who he had become. I have so much love for that character. It was hard going but this was the best possible story going forward. Thanks for a great review!
This game took me through an experience no game has done before. One thought I did want to share, was about caring for Abby and Joel's death; I didn't necessarily end up caring for her deeply, but playing her story and understanding her experience - and the lengths she went through to find Joel - justified Joel's death through her character (in addition to the justification provided by the events of the first game). His death, although brutal and sudden, was only achieved through Abby's absolute obsession. I don't understand the argument that the way in which Joel was killed was bad writing. One person dedicated a great portion of their life for just that. In many ways, I feel like the way in which Abby accidentally stumbles upon Joel proves that Naughty Dog thought long about his death, and respected it, because even through Abby's absolute obsession, she didn't get the satisfaction of the hunt. It took the control out of her hands. It was thrown upon her due to Joel's own drop in guard from 4 years calming down while living in Jackson. This speaks to the point of the entire game, that obsession and hatred will never give you the outcome you hoped for. There are so many layers that I was constantly unwrapping throughout the game, that I was just blown away. The game really does treat you like an adult - one who can look deeper into people's motivations and your own. It's a shame that the loudest voices online tend to be the most closed off to exploring those nuances.
Also, just a week before dying, Joel had traded for coffee with a group that was just passing by. As far as he knew, Abby and friends were just another group of travellers that just helped save his and Tommy's lives. It implies that there are parts of humanity that aren't all bloodthirsty power mongers and just want to survive in relative peace.
@@beardupbeerdown7355 Yes, this! Throughout the game there are times when it's brought up that groups come through the Jackson for trade and what not. So it's not like running into strangers is new for them. Plus, Joel's lifestyle is very different in Jackson versus his lifestyle in the first game. I also think that seeing a young woman around Ellie's age might have brought out his protective instincts -- helps that there was this insanely massive horde coming for them all too.
Dawn Webb there are notes scattered around about being being trapped and you meet those people in the town. One of them being “the bigot”. Can’t remember his name. He wrote a letter talking about losing his family and wanting to join the Jackson community.
It was honestly only by chance she stumbled upon them specifically and not other members, but not just suddenly stumbles, she was tracking whoever was at that outpost. They all ended up in that exact location because of the infected. So really, all she did was follow their tracks and end up being found trapped in the same herd of infected they were also trapped in. They didn’t let their guard down either. If we are being real, let’s say a real life situation that’s similar, you’re being chased by a mass gunman, you know he’s gunning people down with no remorse, and someone tells you it’s Safe to hide in this area, who/what are you going to choose? Take your chance with the dude with the semi auto or the person who’s also scared and trapped with gunman with you. You know there’s literally no where else to go. You gotta think quick now. It was either her location or fighting a unknown amount but clearly large herd of infected in a storm with little to almost zero visibility. It’s human instinct. Abby trusted Lev too. And Lev trusted Abby. Joel trusted Abby. People will trust in other people when they are placed into difficult situations That require an immediate decision and a fast solution. Ie they’re being surround by infected, this place we are in now is no good, people are sounding off options that are also no good, stranger knows a good place that we know will work, go with her or test our luck being surrounded. They could be survivors all they want, but they wouldn’t have survived that hoard coming through that door. I would’ve gone with Abby too rather than being torn apart by the infected. Even while playing I was totally fine with them going with her because I knew they’d be safe....well, for now lol
Very well said! That is what you can call a masterpiece, this game is for adults, let the kids just talk about how bad it is, doesn't matter. Some people just don't get the narrative of life.
I loved this game from TOP TO BOTTOM. Some people wanted another fun, emotional adventure with Joel and Ellie, but Naughty Dog endeavored to give us something different. Something ugly and tragic. Something that would challenge the player's sense of "which character am I locked into," and "who am I supposed to be rooting for"? That's BALLSY stuff, ladies and gents, and it was executed MASTERFULLY.
I feel there are far too many plot holes to call this game a masterpiece. I actually like the ending but feel they should’ve done the rest of the story better by making it make more sense
And Tess in the first game reminded Joel “we are not good people”. So as Joel said “our luck will run out”. And it was just how the story was going to play out!
The way Joel says “why don’t you say whatever speech you’ve got rehearsed and get this over with” tells you right there he knew eventually someone was gonna come after him for the things he’s done and he was prepared to pay for it. we just happened to witness it at the beginning of the game
Yep and why Abby response is 'Guess' And why Ellie doesn't speculate to Dina why it happened because there were many people that Joel wronged in his life. 4 years of a better life in Jackson has relaxed him beyond his usual cautious self and his past caught up to him.
I agree but why did he say "yal act like you've heard of us or something" I love this game but that line is so stupid and makes Joel seem dumb. I hate it.
@@markhill8150 I would be saying that if people reacted in that way when hearing my name... like crack a joke of being famous. I found it quite natural and in line with Joels humour and bravado from the first game. Each to their own though
Yeah he knew that he was going to die from saving Ellie, not because he killed a nobody, which it is since it's not even the same person from pt. 1 to pt.2
So far I think last of us is one of the best game franchises out there, and honestly I think last of us 2 was a better game. I've never played a game that took me through an emotional ride the way this game did. Hoping for Ghost of Tsushima to do the same.
dont mean to dissapoint you, but after TLOU2, Ghost of tsushima is incredibly bland and generic, I was also hoping for it to surprise me, but I font know that if after last of us everything else feels bland, or if its just not good story wise. its still fun to play and I intend to finish it, but it is basically just another assasins creed game, good, but no masterpiece
I absolutely love the game. I played it faster than I was intending to but i couldn't put the controller down. I can understand why some people might not like the game but for me, it was every bit as good as the first one. I hope this isn't the end of the franchise as Ellie is probably my favorite video game character ever.
I wanna part 3 with just her tbh. I warmed up to Abby at the end and enjoyed her section, but Ellie is so hard to rival with in terms of character intrigue. I really want another game with her.
When I finished the game I felt emotionally drained from playing it but I absolutely loved it however I still couldn't even look at a PS Controller for about a week. I just had to take time to mull over and digest everything that had happened. The last game did a similar thing to me but this game surpassed it. I have never been so fully drawn into a story and gotten so emotionally involved in two characters. This game didn't just show you a story, it made you physically feel what the characters felt. I went into Abby's story just wanting to get back to the Theatre but by the end I was dreading it as I didn't want any more of them to die and I was so relieved Ellie spared Abby at the end of the game, for both their sakes. It was jarring when you start Abby's half as your rage meter against her is at 100%, but when Seattle Day 1 came up I immediately knew what ND were going to do. Although I didn't want to play Abby at that stage, they had dropped enough breadcrumbs in Ellies story that I was intrigued by what else had been going on during Ellies rampage as she had obviously arrived in the middle of something so I was happy to let it play out. Some people felt Abby's story was very flashback within a flashback but I didn't feel that. Her story had very little to do with Ellie until they cross at the end. It really felt like her own separate story rather than a flashback within Ellies. It showed she thought she had closed that chapter of her life and was trying to work out what to do next. She is gradually evaluating what she has become to get revenge and hates herself a bit like we do at that point and is struggling to make better choices. The two stories are one characters descent into darkness and one characters rise out of it but is so well told you root for both of them. You want Ellie to make better choices but you understand whats driving her forward. You want Abby to find a better purpose than the one that drove her for 4 years and find a way to be a better person. I like how each side is told totally from the perspective of who you are playing as. Some people couldn't grasp that and were continually criticising characters for doing things based on information that was never in their side of the story. EG. "OMG Abby said 'Good' when she heard Dina was pregnant. How can you like her?", "Abby just found her pregnant friend murdered, she see's it as balancing the score", "But Ellie killed Mel in self defence, it's not the same", "Abby doesn't know that. From her perspective she arrives home and finds Owen and an obviously pregnant Mel lying dead on the floor, murdered by the people she has just found in the theatre. Oh, and she doesn't actually kill Dina in the end", "But...but, she still wanted to" I didn't think I would be able to face playing it again it effected me so much but I have now started my second play through and am glad I did as it is an easier emotional ride second time round. Now you know the story, you are ready for the gut punches and can take in more of the details. You know where you don't have to worry about an ambush and can really enjoy looking around. I also found I can now detach the game play from the story and play the combat more arcady without feeling so bad about it (though I'm still trying to avoid killing as many dogs) With Ellies story it was nice to see her and Dina back at a more innocent time and I'm noticing a lot of little dialog details that foreshadow things later. EG. In the pet shop Dina jokes with Ellie about them raising a small creature together. First time through its just a funny bit of throw away banter. Now I realise she was trying to feel Ellie out about them raising a child together. I started to notice how often she is holding her tummy when Ellie isn't looking. The game is full of gorgeous little details like that. With Abby's story I'm playing her more Gung-ho. First time round I played both her and Ellie very stealthily. I think that was a mistake. Ellie is sneaky but Abby is a tank. I found I was looking forward to getting to her half this time so I could really unload a bit and thats where I am now. Story-wise I'm looking out for the details I might have missed or misremembered for her as well. Of the two that stand out so far, the first was when she wakens up right at the start of the game in the lodge, she's just had that same recurring dream about her dad's murder. It explains why she was so quick to go off on her own and why Joel saving her in no way evened the score. The second was I had forgotten Ellie never heard the argument about sparing her and Tommy and that it was Abby who made that call. We only get that in Abby's story. So yeah, I'm with you. To me the game was a masterpiece that surpassed the original. 10/10
I just started my second playthrough and I don't remember Abby saying to spare Tommy and Ellie. When was that said? I remember Owen saying it first during Joel's death scene, and then Abby agreeing with him.
@@Homeboy_Brando Abby is just numbly staring at Joel's body while Owen stops Manny killing Ellie. Then the others all start arguing with him. It's Abby who makes the call to leave them alive. Notice that when she says they're done, none of them argues about it with her whereas they were almost going to shoot Owen over it. She's clearly the "alpha" and it's her decision they go along with.
@@dorkangel1076 I wouldn’t say she’s the “Alpha.” We’ve clearly seen them argue with her too. It was just her mission. She found the tip on the location of Tommy, she set up the whole trip to Jackson, went to Issac to give the go ahead, and she has a more personal reason than the others because Joel killed her father. Not an “Alpha,” but more like she’s in charge of that specific operation. They all seem equal to each other after that mission they had. And technically since Owen said it first, Abby agreed with him. And you said you only see Abby made the call in her side of the story. That part is when the story is shared.
@@Homeboy_Brando It's more to do with the fact that when we play Ellie's side, she is in shock over Joel's death and the conversation is just muffled. In Abby's side, we get the full conversation. If she's in charge of the mission as you say, then it's even more her call to spare them. Whether as "Alpha" or mission commander it's her final decision for them to live.
This was one of the few games that I felt some people just didn't fully understand. I see it when I watch spoiler reviews and see critics say things like... "It just didn't make sense!" then afterward ranting about what there owed and how the game fails to deliver what they wanted. I felt that this was a realistic portrayal of how people would actually act under these kinds of pressures. Given the situation in the world currently with the real pandemic, I think people are having trouble dealing with the actuality of what humanity does when faced with true dread and it's often not the desired result that movies and fiction would have you believe. This game caused us to look at our own reflection and we were left wanting once we saw the cracks. I loved this game and hope that more games could be made without the restriction of having to meet certain owed requirements just to be considered good. - That said, I still like stock and trade easy to digest stories that put a bow at the end of the experience. This was something new and I hope it won't be the last time I experience a game like this.
I agree with everything you said. The dialogue is still awful and does little to make a lot of players care about the new characters (Ellie was pretty unlikable here as well). Most definitely not a 10 out of 10.
I understood it just fine. Revenge is bad. I gots it, you would loose everything you cared about just like Ellie and Abby. I got it just fine. I didn't ask for the game to preach at me, try to make me feel sorry for killing people which is their intentions since they cry out that person's name when they get killed. The game is complete garbage. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
People are out here complaining that Joel “deserves a hero’s death” but in the last of us universe, as Neil said, you don’t get that type of exit because it’s a cruel universe. I feel like a hero’s death would be too cheesy and they did the game just right. It’s sad you get crucified if you have your own opinion or liked any form of it...
FallenJr -_- I don’t think anyone wanted a heroic death it was just out of character of him and tommy, if you’ve noticed characters in this game seem to be super bipolar. Tommy doesn’t want revenge but than he does but then he doesn’t but than when they are living the dream life in an apocalypse, living in a safe farm with a kid and tommy decides that revenge is now needed? Other than Abby, lev and yara every new character felt empty and were just... there. You can say Jesse was good but after he got shot it was like he was erased from everyone’s memory. This is the man who is the father of Ellie and dinas child and he is just forgotten like that. the game is more like a 7/10 than a masterpiece.
Syncron Games I think your comprehension of the events is what is off. He never was cautious about getting revenge or didn’t want to get it. He was acting that way to protect Ellie from getting herself killed as he snuck out of camp early to get revenge solo. He also developed the obsession of enacting revenge to the point that Maria couldn’t deal with it any longer. Also, don’t use bipolar to describe character inconsistencies- that’s offensive. It also isn’t an accurate description. Bibolar means to be up and down, not agreeable and disagreeable. More importantly, let’s just not use mental ailments as a comparison for something negative. That’s the same as calling something that seems dumb the R word. The moment they do already tells me the emotional and intellectual capacity of that person and let’s just say, in your case, I’m not impressed. Certainly not surprised you’re blaming the story for your own incomprehension of it. That’s not the story’s fault, that’s you.
I don’t understand how ppl think it’s out of character for Joel to trust Abby. He has been settled down in Jackson living a somewhat normal life without having to sleep with one eye open for 4 years. I just wonder (for the ppl that disagree) what would y’all do different. Do you let Abby get eaten by the runner? Do you try to survive the horde and just let Abby go her own way? Because if you don’t go back with Abby to the house they probably die n get eaten.
Christopher Thames Because 4 years of a normal life doesn’t make up for 20+, Yes Joel did live somewhat of a normal life in Jackson but in the beginning of the first game before the 20 year time skip there was a family on the road that needed help. And this was when Joel lived a normal life btw he told tommy to keep driving and left the family to their own demise. This is a man who was living a normal life and had a family he could not trust people before the apocalypse even fully began, but you’re telling me that he would open up to armed strangers during the apocalypse. The thing is you’re seeing it from your point of view, Yes there were people who came through Jackson to trade and Joel was open to talk to new people but that’s because he was safe inside Jackson, When Ellie went out on her patrol at the front gate there were about 6-8 armed people that were probably guards, like Any places eg QZ Boston, wlf base people who came to trade were searched for weapons so why would there be any reason for Joel not to trust the traders. While in abbys case we didn’t know Joel didn’t know what their intention was 100% ( this is the guy who spotted a fake injury from a hunter while in a car 100m away) about 7 armed people who he didn’t know who they were and he just trusts them with his name known the shit he did in his past. Tommy did give up Joel’s name which was really out of character even though him knowing what Joel has done. It’s a really big plot hole. Yes people can change in 4 years but that doesn’t erase their past and allow them to trust every person they interact with
The problem I found with Joel's death was not the fact is wasn't a "hero's death" (Joel wasn't a hero and he'd be the first to admit that) but that it didn't fit his character. We saw this man all through TLOU1: he was a hardcore veteran survivor of the apocalypse. Clever and brutal with a trust-no-one mentality who wasn't afraid to kill and torture and leave people to die. He may have lived in Jackson for several years, but he lived with that survivor mentality for 20+ years...yeah, he's never going to get out of that mindset. Psychology doesn't work that way. That's a mindset that has you sleeping with a knife under your pillow for the rest of your days even though logically you know you won't need it. I would have believed it far more that even if he died, he still at least tried to knife one of them on the way down: if you're going to die, you're going to take at least one of the b******s responsible for it down with you. He wouldn't care that his leg was hanging off. And it feels far more in character for Joel to try something like that with his dying breath than to not even throw a punch.
The reason joel was so trusting was because of a couple reasons. The first was there was a horde of infected running them down and they had no where else to go and abby took them in. The second is that abby and friends did not kill Tommy and Joel immediately, which is all there is in the world of the last of us, survival. And the third reason is joel is just more trusting after the first game. His whole arc was reconnecting with his humanity and finding a way to trust people for example Sam and Henry.
I totally agree with this. There’s even collectibles at the beginning that describe the people of Jackson actively welcoming people they meet. They are trying to live in a more wholesome way. Old man Joel is a beloved member of this community, with wholesome old man hobbies like wood carving and guitar making. He’s clearly more open and less on guard; you don’t get that many cards and flowers in front of your house after you die by keeping people at arm’s length. It’s strange to me that a lot of people didn’t pick up on that.
Right and if people walk around the town at the beginning they can over hear conversations where outsiders have stopped into town and are resupplying, so the town was not closed off and completely protected and isolated anymore.
@@rodrigo354 I also saw exactly the same points. Plus I do feel most hate is cause he died at all. They were inviting them in to the town Joel was already known in the town during her visits in part 1, they don't think that Tommy must have talked about his brother Joel to other town members and then he moves in with a different identity. Even the town would not have trusted him if he did that, so Joel changing his name was not a good choice. Even if that had been done, Abby and her gang would have infiltrated the town and then figured it out and ambushed him. I don't know how this approach would have been better. Plus the way he went fit the world so much and the hate you feel for Abby and her gang was also perfect motivation for Ellie and us.
Yes man!!! Omg!! I seriously thought I have some issues cause I beat it 4 nights ago and it’s is weighing sooooo heaving on my mind it is ALL I been thinking about!! How I wanna go back to that world again because it is so EPIC and how it envelops you COMPLETELY!!! I feel like an addict how it’s all I think about. This piece here is a Gem!!! Never a game has done to me what The Last Of Us Universe has done!! Naughty freaking Dog!!! Wheeeew takes my breath away!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@zayk6713 Couldn't¡ have said it better. Finished the game a few days ago and Im still mourning. Wanting to go back to play the NewGame+ but Im not sure Im prepared to venture again in that powerful emotional ride so soon.
Ppl need to *REALLY* pay attention to small details like the little face expressions and head nods and body language. Naughty dog is great at giving us subtle details. Everyone is complaining and saying “why would Joel and tommy just willingly agree to go back with Abby and why would they give up their names so easily to a stranger. Pls go back and play through the scene where they all get over run by a horde and trapped in the room. Tommy gives Abby their names only to calm her down. They were being over run and Abby was borderline having a anxiety attack so tommy says to her “hey you ok? I’m tommy and that’s Joel, what’s your name?” Making conversation to calm her down. And during the part when Abbie says “my friends and I have a house down the road” pay attention- Tommy gives Joel a look that says ‘are we doing this?’ And Joel gives Tommy a look back that says ‘fuck it what choice do we have’ And Before Abby even mentioned her friends They were on the verge of being over run and caught in the middle of a blizzard, Tommy even says “the horses won’t make it” so it’s not like they just willy nilly followed a stranger, it’s the circumstances and predicament they were put in where they didn’t really have a choice. Ppl should pay attention to those details instead of just screaming “bullshit! joel & tommy would never follow a stranger and give up their names
Wholeheartedly agree with this. It's amazing how much nuanced detail was put into this game and is one of those things where, if you really open yourself up to the story and are able to pick up those details, it just adds that much more to the experience. Absolutely amazing!
I have had this exact same argument many times over this. I've also had people claim they would never walk into a trap when it wasn't a trap. Abby's group don't know who they are and so are genuinely friendly when they arrive and grateful they've brought Abby back. When Mel introduces herself and shakes Tommy's hand she means it. At that point Joel not giving his name would be suspicious since Abby already knows it. Their only mistake in the whole sequence of events was missing Abby's reaction when she heard Joels name the first time. Given what was happening at the time, this was understandable. The details are all there if people bother to look.
Great points, and that makes sense for what they did with the story, but that still doesn't make me enjoy the direction they took it, or desire to play through Abby's story. I don't think it's poorly crafted, I just don't like the direction the story went or most of the characters on Abby's side. It's not my game though, so I'm not mad about their decisions, I just had expectations I hoped for after playing the first TLoU and watching the previews and trailers. Reminded me a lot of when I saw the Dark Knight Rises. Still a well-produced movie with great actors and sound, but I've never really wanted to see it again.
Just finished the game last night. Too often we are shown a revenge story where the character won't stop until the villain is dead, only for them to let up at the end. As the game was coming to an end, I thought that the first farm scene was the epilogue. After Tommy showed up, my stomach, as well as my girlfriend's (who has gone through both games as well), dropped. We knew what we wanted Ellie to do. To just move on and give up on the hatred, but that wasn't the story being told. The entire game kept showing how hatred only leads to more hatred. The two main characters were complex, and it was interesting seeing how Ellie succumbed to the hate, whereas Abby was willing to move on due to meeting Lev and Yara. After the final battle between Ellie and Abby at the Pillars, I was hoping that we wouldn't see the girl we have gone through 2 games with, give in to the rage and do something that I would understand, but not agree with. Throughout the game, I found that it wasn't trying to justify what it was doing, it was only trying to show you why it was happening. It treated the player as an adult, with more grey than black and white, which a lot of games try to do, but don't completely commit to. As the credits rolled, and as tears streamed down both me and my girlfriend's face, I think the game achieved what it set out to do. It is another ending that is ambiguous enough to leave a sequel, but also a good place for the franchise to end. There are a lot of questions that I have that I don't necessarily want answered, and that's the sign of a good game for me. Definitely a 10/10 for the two of us sitting on the couch, and I can see how some criticisms are valid, but the amount of people who hate the game for the story choices and especially some of the gender/relationship choices are completely unwarranted. My only gripe with the game is the lack of multiplayer, because I played hours of Factions on both the original, as well as the Remastered version. lol
Agree... but to achieve that feeling you are talking about there is the need of empathy. A thing many people who hate the game (not all) does not have.
Do you need to watch your girlfriend get addicted to crack, start selling her body on the streets, wither away and lose everything, in order to know that drugs are bad? That is how i feel about this games message, it was pointless for most people, but a good lesson for sheltered children i guess.
Here's my take: The hatred that Ellie feels for Abby is an externalized reflection of the hatred Ellie harbors for herself. Why? Well Joel deeply hurt both Abby and Ellie in different ways and they both punished him for it. Ellie hates Abby for torturing Joel to death, especially because she didn't get a chance to restore her relationship with Joel. This is a mirror because Ellie also tortured Joel, she did it for years but in a different way, and I'd say in a way that waS more painful for Joel, and that was by disconnecting from him, She hates herself for torturing him like that and not restoring their relationship when there was still time. That's the real pain she has been trying to avoid facing during this entire revenge quest, she's like a drug addict usine revenee to avoid dealine with addict using revenge to avoid dealing with those painful feelings of regret. This is the realization she has while she is drowning Abby when she has the flashback to the scene on the porch with Joel and chooses to spare Abby. She's not just forgiving Abby, she's really most importantly forgiving herself and finally coming to terms with what happened between her and Joel, I thỉnk her leaving his guitar to rest în the house and walking away is Supposed to symbolically represent that she has forgiven Joel, made peace with what happened between them and is finally ready to move on and start a new life. I hated the end at first but after much deliberation I thỉnk it's actually really poetic. People saying the game is just about "revenge is bad" I thỉnk have really missed the point. I got this thread from the user cynical idealist
@@Spidey-cw7kd thats an interesting observation. All I thought was she was just finally realising she was about to do the same thing abby did to her, murdering abby in front of lev for the same reasons abby did joel, and finally understanding abbys motivations, but deciding to let it go instead of cause more pain. If we were supposed to feel more of ellies remorse for her angst towards joel they did a rubbish job of showing that. One journal entry, or one conversation with dina, could have brought that question into the plot. I think you are giving the writers more credit than they deserve. There is a spoilercast with druckmann, troy, and ashley, where neil they say straight out that the game is about empathy, the cycle of violence and obsession leading you to lose everything, and the strength of love driving people to the worst actions. Thats it, that is what it is supposed to be about.
i think most of the hate is because as much as YOU like the game , it obviously doesn't really work for many others who bought the game because of the misleading way it was advertised.
@@nadinefeiler9204 it's because Joel is amazing to us but in his world he is just a smuggler and a broken man who redeemed himself by taking care of a kid abbey went down the same route
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and mine is that I didn’t like the game, but I do respect the people that actually do like the game and we should not condone any type of threatening towards the actors or the crew. We are better than this
This so much! When I saw all the death threats that Laura Bailey received made me feel sick, it was disgusting. Sending death threats to a real person about a fictional character is so wack. There's seriously something wrong with some people. I hope they realise how fucked their behaviour was at some stage. We're all allowed our own opinions, we are not allowed to wish death on anyone because of a fictional game. It's freaking gross. We need more people with voices of reason like yours. Personally I loved the game but understand that not everyone will feel like this and that's totally fine. Have a good one :)
Thank you, as someone who loved this game, I absolutely respect your opinion. I hate it when people can’t take each other’s opinion in a civil way. I consider games being an art, and art varies from person to person. But I absolutely hate people who sent death threats to the creators and the actors, they are absolutely low life
This might be the most polarizing game ever released. You are entitled to your opinion, and mature people will respect that, even if they disagree with it. Thank you for your nuanced video.
I keep hearing people question how Joel could fall for a trap like this and that it is not believable. It was not a trap, they didn’t know who he was. when Joel entered the building only Abby knew who he was, Joel read the room as safe because it was safe, the people where relatively good people, and had no intention of hurting them. It was just bad luck that happened to be looking for him specifically, as soon as they heard his name, the mood in the room changed and Joel felt it immediately.
@@FranP25 because they were not out to rob or kill random people. They were on a mission for one spacific person. Just sucks for joel that he was that person.
I finally completed this game early this morning, after two weeks of playing. Excellent game. I was very mixed about the story, but overall it leans to a positive side and it was just soooo well made, ya gotta respect the craftsmanship by all involved.
This game and the divisiveness that it's created, gave a perfect example that people like different things, that everyone has an opinion, and many don't like it if your opinion is different from their own. And a lot of people don't have the maturity and the emotional intelligence to have a decent conversation/debate about something and respect the reasons why another may disagree with them.
As a TLoU2 fan, I keep getting called a “shill.” Also, people who hate the game keep writing me long paragraphs for why I shouldn’t. Works both ways I suppose.
Why the dislikes?????? He did a fantastic job!!! If you didn't like it then ok but he wasn't wrong. Its HIS OPINION and I agree with 90% of what he said.
Yeah, any positive video on this game has people just show up and immediately dislike it. Which makes me feel like I need to immediately like it in retaliation. It’s a mess.
@@PrayingWarfare so because you don't agree with his opinion you show hate??? Its not like he was being controversial or rude. I thought angry joe review of this game was a joke but I didn't dislike it.
My fondest moment from the game is one that I'd like to applaud Naughty Dog for; I'm so glad they chose not to give the player agency at the end and allow choice. I've watched a lot of streams and read a ton of posts about how those players felt cheated at the end of the final fight because they weren't allowed to make the final choice. To that I say, "it's not about you!" Congrats to Naughty Dog for telling THEIR STORY and not cheapening it with two different endings. This whole Consumer Control culture of railing against something that strays from their expectations is turning Pop culture toxic so props to ND for staying true to their vision. Look, I get loyalty and the concepts of allegiance but those players who couldn't relate to or refused to relate to or only kind-of related to Abby and STILL wanted to kill her missed the whole point of the story. This isn't a story about revenge it's about identity and tribes and what happens when we're asked to step outside the warm blanket that is , "Us," and examine the consequences of what your choices do to the, "other." Given what's going on in the real world right now, Naughty Dog's new offering couldn't be more relevant or classic.
They wanted it to be that you strangle Abbey and stop when you realize you're horrified by your own actions. But the play testers kept throttling her. It's a long road to Bethlehem.
I agree, it was a masterpiece. I beat it over the course of 7 days, but it was always on my mind through those days. So much character nuance in this game, beyond the details. Like most people don't even notice Abby's vertigo Effect and panic attacks when she gets close to an edge up high and you look down.
Tayta Tot This game is special. Love it! The purpose and story of this game blew over a lot of people's heads. The ending was so powerful and it really hit me. This game is definitely 10/10.
I love this game and will be getting the ps5 version for sure. Its clear how much work went into this product and it really shines on a 4K TV. Everything feels so real. The combat was a lot easier this time round so I enjoyed it more then the 1st game. The story is really effective, I thought the made a really solid provocative story here and it is getting a lot of reaction and talk going. I like that its not all roses in a fairy tale though. The best part of it is the story because it needs to be told.
I think it is already confirmed that it will be part of the boost mode offer of ps5. So there wont be a dedicated os5 version as it seems. But I’ll play it again and platinum it on ps5 with a new 4K hdr tv probably too
It took Naughty Dog years to make this game. Is it worth it? Oh yes. It is a masterpiece. My emotion went up and down, left and right when playing this game. The game is so well made that we all care about some of the characters. I never thought video game could make me sad and even cry. The Last of Us and the Last of Us II did. What a game! Kudo to Naughty Dog. Can't wait to play another Naughty Dog game.
Finished the game yesterday. Wow. Amazing. I felt the hate for Abby and I felt resentment towards naughty dog for making me play as her at first. I knew what they were doing and I didn't want to empathize with her. But dang it, it happened and by the end I didn't want Ellie to kill her. Incredible story. That's why I love video games 😍
@@sapphire5396 ya I mean I felt hate towards her (as much as I can hate a person who isn't real) and understood why people were warning me before I played it I wouldn't like her. Thankfully no one spoiled it for me. I hope they make a 3rd game and give us more Abby, Ellie interaction somehow. Like a necessary team up or something
This was the most powerful gaming experience I've ever had. Truly elevates the medium for how effective a story can be told. Like many others, I thought there was no way I could be on Abby's side.. but it happened. This is one you have to experience to truly understand the story it's telling. I don't think reading about it or watching it will have the full effect. It's a lot! Being a guitar player had a huge emotional impact for me, which I never expected. 11/10 - still blown away.
Great review, I shared a ton of thoughts with what you put in here! Especially the "honoring Joel" bit. This game is still very much about Joel even though it may not look like it. His actions were the catalyst for basically all the plot points (besides the wolves vs seraphites) and his death served as the motivation for Ellie, Tommy, Jesse etc. I'd say it's almost too centered around him to the point that Ellie doesn't feel like her own character, but rather an extension of his will, since she seems to spend most of the game trying to be more like him. She even makes her final decision to spare Abby because of the thought of him. But I guess her leaving the guitar behind in the final scene is showing that she's moved on and is ready to start living for herself. At least that's how I'd see it.
I think Naughty Dog did an extraordinary job on this game. This game had me scared, sad, high anxiety, even uncomforting at times...the game is beautiful, the attention to details is just amazing. For example, you blow someone up, pieces of them will stick to the ceiling and even drop. I'm already on my 3rd round playing this game, I've beat twice. I'm not ready for Survivor, yet, lol.
"The game is beautiful. You blow someone up, pieces of them fall from the ceiling." Bro, get some help!! JK, you're absolutely right. I don't think I have ever felt a sickening sense of terror and dread -- that I actually derived pleasure from. The design of the lower hospital levels was on point, but the hotel descent was so brilliant: a goal of simply getting to the ground floor, but it's a F%$&ing skyscraper. It's not infinitely tall, but it feels like it goes on forever. That halfway point where you can briefly see the sky again. I wanted it to be over with, but I knew I would really be sad when it's over. I probably spent 3 hrs in there on my 1st playthrough. I don't think I have ever enjoyed anything more in gaming.
A month has passed and I'm still playing. The Last of Us Part 2 is shattering, exhausting and breathtaking. It's the most profound gaming experience I have ever had.
@@apictureoffunction I'm about 5 hours into Grounded mode... A whole new ball game. Makes Survivor mode look like Super Mario World! You must give it a try!
Yes man!!! Omg!! I seriously thought I have some issues cause I beat it 4 nights ago and it’s is weighing sooooo heavy on my mind it is ALL I been thinking about!! How I wanna go back to that world again because it is so EPIC and how it envelops you COMPLETELY!!! I feel like an addict how it’s all I think about. This piece here is a Gem!!! Never a game has done to me what The Last Of Us Universe has done Especially this one!! Naughty freaking Dog!!! Wheeeew takes my breath away! It has been haunting me immensely I can’t stop!! But in a very very verrry good way!!!!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ 100/10
Great video! I agree one hundred percent with your insights. Fortunately I played it to completion without any spoilers. As someone who has been playing video games for over 40 years, I can say that this masterpiece is unlike anything else I’ve played. Congratulations and thanks to Naughty Dog for the experience.
I agree with everything you said, Victor. This game proves that our medium is capable of delivering mature, emotional, and heavy narratives that don't just pander to the lowest common denominator, or to John Carmack's old "story in video games is like story in porn" adage. I don't like what happened to Joel or how it happened, but Naughty Dog still crafted such a powerful narrative, that in the end, you just can't fight it. Everything that takes place, from Joel's death right down to Ellie's final decisions resulting in something so tragic as rendering her unable to play the guitar (something that was like a part of Joel that stayed with her), all of that... I don't think it could've been done better, and removing any one of those elements would have made it weaker. It's a heart breaking game, through and through, and the fact that this medium is able to bring that out in us is a massive testament to how far video games have come.
It's also worth mentioning that after 4 years of living the good life in Jackson--where they let in strangers all the time--Joel let his guard down. Jackson got to him and changed him, because people change. People acclimate to the environments they're in. People are fluid, and characters should be, too. It's as simple as that.
4 years doesn't just erase 20 years of survival. plus he's OUTSIDE the safety of Jackson. and we don't even get any buildup or subtle hints that he's sloppy. why does he even let a far larger group surround him from inside. just look at him and ellie reacting to sam and the other guy from the first game. trusting, but more cautious.
@@samthong3305 I agree that hinting that Joel was getting sloppier would have helped support the character choices. But I still think 4 years is well enough to coax someone into a vulnerable state, especially since Jackson is a trading post that regularly interacts well with strangers.
Man this game is a masterpiece. I just beat it the day before yesterday and it was such a privilege to play this game. I love TLOU 1 & 2. Looking forward to TLOU3. I just beat it because I don't have a lot of time to play video games but I bought it day one. Thanks for this positive review. As a casual gamer who plays mostly triple A titles... who's not interested in specs and all that, I appreciate this man. Take care.
This has to be the best game I ever played in my entire life. Months after playing it and I still think about it. It made a huge impact on me. Just LOVE IT.
The creators did something very meaningful to the video game world here. And one big thing that sticks out to me from the story is the lack of empathy and understanding among humanity. All main characters were driven by the same kind of pain. But none of them ever considered asking any questions to those who took their loved ones. Joel could not imagine losing someone he loved a second time. Abby could have tried to understand his motives before shooting him in the leg. But anger and hatred are great medicine to numb the pain of loss and despair. The characters ran away from their pain instead of feeling it and trying to understand the pain of others. And that created the hell they lived through and put others through. Ellie literally leaves a piece of paradise to go back to hell and seek revenge once more. It’s very powerful story telling. It’s a masterpiece of our time. And strong emotions in players about it only reveal how they themselves deal with loss. Lastly, it’s a masterpiece in survival horror, period. The moment you meet the Rat King Must have been the purest moment of horror I have experienced in a loooong time. It was a defining experience in that regard. The atmosphere and music… SO good!
it is a masterpiece. I can understand people, who dislike the story, cos they wished another adventure like part 1, but for me this is a perfect sequel. Joel deserved to die in this way, Yes, he was a great character but did bad things. the price had to be paid imo. Sure, it could happend later in the story, but otherwise there would be no reason for ellie to start her adventure. But just to the world and all of the characters ... fantastic. It broke my heart, but the experience ... it was great. THX naughty dog for this rollercoster. perfect ending.
Shumayel Khan then you got to take it like a champ(Negan said before killing Glenn and Abraham) like Joel did before he died. He told Abby to get it over with he had an angry face 😠 before the torture. But he took like a champ.
"He got what he deserves," same can be said for Ellie and Abby, they both deserve to die. What about Sam, Henry, Riley and Tess, did they deserve to die? Makes you wonder about the "He deserves it" trope, don't you think 💁🏿♂️🤔?
I kind of disagree with the criticism that Joel wouldn't have fallen into the trap, mainly because it wasn't a trap. From his perspective, he was on a routine scouting mission when he was attacked by a swarm of infected. The infected drove him and Abby together and put him in a situation where he either went along with her to a safe place, or he could take his chances going elsewhere and most likely be killed. He didn't have much of a choice. So he did the logical thing and went with Abby. Doesn't mean he didn't completely let his guard down, but he was trying to act friendly to a group of strangers so that they would let *their* guard down. But of course, by pure chance, he was the person they had come to kill. There's no way he could have predicted that.
I could watch and listen to you talk about videogames for the rest of my life. Your takes on everything is so spot on and intellectual. The Last of Us 2 definitely took a toll on me man. I didn’t know Naughty Dog could outdo themselves. I love it.
I agree. After wanting Abby dead, she wound up as my favorite character. My thoughts at first play through was that maybe I’d have the choice of which one I’d be at the end. I eventually wanted them to just stop. So much loss.
I wish I could get there, because that’s what the intentions were; it just didn’t... i wish the studio came to the realization that it would have been better to edit Abby’s storytelling and release an earlier game before “part 2” that ends with a reveal that her hidden adversary is Joel’s family... it would have been a brilliant twist like Shyamalan’s twist at the end of “Split”: even Shyamalan knew we couldn’t EQUALLY invest in both the protagonist of “Unbreakable” and the troubled antagonist of “Split” in the same story...
Regarding Joel falling for the trap, I’d also like to say he has probably been softened up a lot by living in Jackson for the past 4 years, and being a father to Ellie. So he’s much less guarded and more trusting then he would have been prior to this time. So in a way him finding someone to love again lead to his demise. But the game wasn't perfect, mostly because of severe pacing issues. Loved the story telling so much though. 8/10 for me.
Wow!!!. Loving someone lead to his demise! Perfectly said!👌👌 im playing the game a 2nd time and im enjoying it more. Probably because i already know what happens!
Shumayel Khan i see a lot of people say pacing issues and plot holes yet no one want to tell us where in the story specifically are these issue present? What I see is a game that use the story style of movies switch from character prospective. There are many movies 🎥 like that want the viewers to see both sides of the story. I like how Naughty Dog humanize the enemies, giving them a name and even story purpose. I like the part where Abby walks through the Washington Liberation Front bases an you see most of the characters Ellie might of killed during her playthrough! Including the PS Vita girl named Whitney who actually have some additional dialogue. A game that came really close to this was Metal Gear Solid 5 when you play as Big Boss, but the enemies you kidnap hilariously with a drone that flys them back to your bases 😂, are too genetic and robotic to care about. Last of Us 2 did the best job humanizing enemies seeing things through their perspective. I like that and even the ending for the game.
I mean, I find it difficult to believe Joel would let go of a mindset he had for at least 20 years just because he had it easy for 5 years (according to Wikipedia the game takes place 5 years later, not 4).
I love the fact that Tommy shoots Manny in the head, it pays back to that time he spit on Joel. Dude I was shocked when Tommy was that sniper, this story is full of such moments, how many times do you get that from other videogames? Fckin love it.
I have found reasons to refute most points of criticism on this game, but I still cannot figure out why Naughty Dog had Manny spit on Joel. He would've otherwise been a completely likeable character (still, I really was saddened when Tommy killed him).
@@Don2006 He doesn't the player's point of view of Joel, so I understand why he would spit on Joel from his point of view. Because of that I did find him a likeable character.
I think the biggest challenge with this story only becomes one at the end depending on how emotionally bankrupt the player is. It really is as simple as that. I think this is a mature story that fills in the gaps of it's supposed open endedness with your own experiences in life dealing with anger and grief. The story is a much different story for people who have lost a parent than it would be if both parents were alive and did too good of a job to shield them from harsh life lessons they haven't experienced yet. Ellie is disassociating, or so it seems, by her journal entries. She can't properly grieve Joel. It all makes sense as to why she focused her hurt onto Abby beyond just killing Joel. She also killed her scapegoat into properly dealing with her pain. At the end of this story, I came to the conclusion that Ellie's quest for revenge doesn't end in specifically choosing to end the cycle of violence. I think both characters already wanted that to end before their last spar with each other. It was more about Ellie not being able to forgive Joel. In the end, she does, and for Ellie to forgive Joel for killing her spirit and taking away her life's purpose is to also forgive Abby for killing him for doing the same to her. I understand the conflict of losing a father who was seen as Evil by other people and not know this myself until later in life. Where you cannot find an ounce of understanding for why they had done what they've done, but you still have these memories that have shaped you into the person you are because of their capacity to be funny or loving isolated from that. I feel like I understood Ellie very well and maybe that guided the story to be more about my own story. Or maybe my assumptions are correct and it's just my experience in life that allowed me to understand it more readily. Either way-- it really touched me and the relief of Ellie finally understanding what is driving her and to stop killing Abby was so huge. I loved this game and it's just one of those things that I think isn't as impactful to an emotionally immature audience.
I honestly don't know if the game "haunted me" but it's definitely still with me. If I being brutally I never hated Abby for one second. I didn't know if I'd end up liking her but never did I think Ellie's revenge was more important, because as you said Joel sealed his fate at the end of the og. this sums up my feelings perfectly because it didn't matter whether I understood what Joel did or whether or not I truly grew to like him because at the end of the day Joel demonstrated that he was just as brutal and selfish as anybody that we'd fought along the way. And this is from having replayed it very recently btw. If you really want your mind blown I think I liked Abby more at the beginning of her ark then I liked Joel at the beginning of his. seriously. I remember replaying the game and thinking whether or not this game had held up for me on the account of me not liking Joel as much as remembered. thankfully my love for Joel returned but I never once viewed him as a hero let alone as someone who shouldn't have to pay for their sins. Another reason why Joel's Death didn't affect me on a deeper Lvl was that I thought it was going to be a lot worse. I never read any suppliers so my mind ran wild, I almost always assumed that the spoilers centered around Joel's death but for a short time I considered Ellie might be raped and or maimed and I swear I that even considered the possibility of Ellie killing Joel, which seemed logical for about an hr...lol. I eventually settled on You killing Joel as another character after I saw a YT vid with Abby as the thumbnail. Compound that will the fact that I had watched a few reviews that seemed to find it odd that the game would try humanize a character that otherwise seemed completely monstrous. so I was expecting burning flesh, I was expecting torture. I was expecting pleasure. but no, he gets shot in the leg and hit over the head. Hell I don't even think Abby was hitting him the head when Ellie first comes in the room. and lastly, the image of Joel while slightly Gruesome it was hardly on the lvl of Glenn's eye-popping gurgle on TWD imo. now before you label me a heartless vampire it's worth noting that I had a big problem with that final battle. as in I was deeply embarrassed that the game was making me do this and why my rating for the game is 9.5 as opposed to a 10. atm. I might come around on it as I understand it meant to show how both characters have come full circle, but my god that was uncomfortable. so... yeah, maybe the game did haunt me a Little bit. hahaha. Moving off that, I honestly think I liked Abby very early on. The little things like interacting with Many's fathers or talking to Mel about her obsession with dog toys and then, in turn, Abby bringing up her obsession with coins for example. But the eureka moment for me was when you go to the hospital with Lev. I remember Lev asking Abby if she was ok her going Fine.. I was like omg! this is the spirit of TLoU right here!! Or in other words, this is Joel and Ellie without it having to be Joel and Ellie and it works!!!! anyway, that's all for me. I really wish you and Tommy would argue about this game tbh. lol!
So you know, I watched the leaks when they first surfaced, I was angry about what I saw. Then I played the game, I absolutely loved it. At the end I didn’t want Ellie or Abby to die. Thinking back on how emotionally distraught about finding out you have to play as Abby, then playing the game and really caring for Abby during my play through, is wild. I’ll always think about if I was able to avoid watching the leaks, my curiosity was just too strong... The only problem I have with the game is that sometimes the AI like Dina or Jesse or Lev would come to where I was in cover and push me out of that spot and I would get found because of it, it happened 3-4 times. There were close range pop in graphic textures and environmental pop in. In the end, it’s by far the best looking game I’ve ever seen, full stop. I’m so excited to hopefully play Factions MP with these graphics and gameplay. TLOU2’s gameplay is my favorite. I still play TLOU Factions MP 7 years later, the new multiplayer is going to be amazing. I hope they announce multiplayer soon.
Platinum Shores Attacking complete strangers depends on how you play the game. Feel free to try and stealth it. Besides, the game does a good job of portraying the Wolves as bad guys in Ellies half. Since they attack on sight, you could justify it to yourself as self defence. The two bits that really effect Ellie are Nora which was torture and cold blooded murder (though she was dying anyway) and the shock of realising she'd killed a pregnant woman.
A game that makes you think this much and has this much controversy is an event, it's a shame people are not approaching this with an open mind, would it have been more pleasing to have Tommy or another character die to send Joel and Ellie on another adventure mixed with revenge? yes but this is not a bad game- some parts were a little long but this was a good game, some parts were incredible- not a home run but an achievement in the next step- I do believe Ebert would have said this and game one was the closest thing to a movie as far as emotionally moving you.
Killing other characters and having Joel and Ellie traveling again would be the easy and “not risky” choice, i’m glad that the creators were brave enough to make this amazing story.
Exactly! This game shows how many people are narrow minded and like classic hero storys. That's why hollywoods predictable movies work so well. The story is superbly written for my taste. Lot of surpirses and unconventional editing and dramaturgy. Maybe to "sophisticated" for the average gaming audience. Angry Joe gave it a 6/10. Pleasing the haters and kiddies I believe.
I love Joel, he is a great character. However he has done some awful things. At the very start of the first game he left a family stranded We know that he was a hunter praying on innocent families (which is how he recognised the ambush) He has murdered and tortured a load of people And killed a doctor who was making a cure for all mankind. We love Joel because we feel we know him and understand some of his motivation The Story of TLOU2 sets up to show us how Hate Blinds us I HATED Abby, at about 3 times in the game I put down my controller But by the end, I understand her too, I don't forgive her, but I understand her and no longer hate her Great Gaming Experience
So the doctor wasn't attacking him with a scalpel? Also, you make it seem like it was absolutely going to be a cure, that's just not how it works. Also they said a vaccine, you cant vaccinate a fungus, only a virus. I dunno, the story just didn't work for me.
Rao Kineda inform yourself. There are several vaccines in the work against funguses that harm humans. Just google it. What is right is that they are not available and there are studies ongoing. But stating you can’t vaccine funguses isn’t right. A vaccine Is going to make the immune system capable of defending itself against biological intruders. It doesn’t matter if this are virus, bacteria or funguses
@@raokineda exactly Joel killing of Abbys father at best comes down to self defense. At worst second degree. Abby on the other hand plans tracks and commits premeditated murder after brutally torturing. Brings all her friends in as accessories and ditches them all shortly after for the enemy. But all these half wit idiots think Joel bad now cause Druckmann say so.
I haven't smoked in years....after beating this game, I bought a pack KOOL 100s. I'm not joking, it did something to me. Currently on my 2nd play through now...No other game has left this kind of Mark like The Last Of Us 2
Loved this game. Absolutley incredible. its been almost a week sinse I finished it and I can't stop thinking about it. I can't recall a game effecting me this much. I want to replay it but I'm just not ready. Loved your video, I apprieciate your thoughts.
I just finished the game- I'm glad I took it slow. It allowed me to process everything at a pace the characters could not, which made me extremely frustrated with them. However, the game encourages you to be empathetic in such a real way, it's so beautiful and incredible. I'm not really a gamer, but I knew the last of us was a story that I needed to experience. It is so real - it is frustrating for me to see the intolerance for the game. I'll just concentrate on how it changed my life and I'm so lucky to have played it
This game is a 10/10 for sure. I didn’t expect that Naughty dog could exceed the first game, but they did it. The characters, story, and gameplay are a step forward for this series. Also, the violence is gruesome, by the end of the game having a NPC scream out in pain as he is missing a limb still didn’t sit well with me. Kudos to Naughty Dog, so far this is the best game I’ve played this year.
Been a huge fan of your's for years and usually I agree with your opinion when it comes to game scores. Really respect your opinion on this title but I personally felt detached from the game due to the story and writing. The game play and graphics were amazing though. Looking forward to seeing more from you in the future.
The "none of it mattered because the cycle of violence goes round and round" nihilism was boring. And people saying there are no good and bad guys clearly dont understand that murdering children for science is evil. Joel was not selfish for saving Ellie. For me felt like another forgettable Call of Duty "story." A ton of high production flash and spectacle, but little substance. Agreed that everything else was great, but 1/3 of the way through I was just not interested in what happened to any of the characters. Getting to explore the art work of the next set piece and killing baddies were the motivations for playing - and paying $70, the latter of which should not be ever be a reason.
@@BlackMageLozi Most people don't buy mario or zelda and think "oh boy I'm so hyped for the new storyline and new lore!" No people buy mario and zelda for the gameplay. They're 3d platformers and action games. Completely disingenuous argument bud. Not to mention that MM actually had a pretty well written and nuanced story.
I don't care what others say about this game. After playing and letting the story sink in I actually really freaking enjoyed it. So much tension in the game. Fear of losing someone in every part of the game. Saddest ending in gaming history. Lol
Trust me, they are not so much as they think. They are vocal because contrary to others who are playing the game they are not laying it. But things are getting balanced as the time goes by.
Just finished the game, and yeah, it’s at least a 9/10. The ending blew me away. I’d say this qualifies as one of the best revenge stories ever told. The fan backlash is so frustrating; I saw it coming months before release, and predicted a Metacritic review bomb. Still, the mass negative response is truly baffling to me. Is it that people are simply averse to games that make you think about the horror of killing?
Gamers clearly can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Just that classic " You didn't tell the story that I would have written" entitlement. Which sums up the majority of the consumer base.
I Buy Digital That’s wrong. It’s not because they wrote it differently than expected. It was for many controversial reasons. I can list many if you prefer
uhuhuh1966 oh yeah, I agree. I’d throw hatred and violence into the fray as a theme as well. It really tackles the dynamics of human violence from multiple angles (with empathy serving as the solution to said violence).
I just beat this last night. I can't stop thinking about it. What a game. An absolute masterpiece imo. I praise Naughty Dog. I can't imagine the amount of work that goes into something like this. I agree with everything Lucas said here. Definitely one of my favorite games of all time! I'm gonna take a little breather and then try out New Game+ and blow the hell out of everything 😁
*The Santa Barbara section was my favourite. And Vic, you are right, the game is haunting. Ellie has gone down as one of video gaming's most badass females.*
It's such a shame that there's folk out there than can't appreciate this game. It's not a Disney plot line so it automatically gets shade? The game forces us as players to own up to the fact that life doesn't always go as planned, our moral compasses don't always point north and that sometimes we have to just live with the choices we made/didn't make. Great review Vic.
I would say I don't throw shade but I don't like the story. I also don't need a Disney plot line either, but I was perfectly fine if Abby or Ellie or both died in the end. I knew what type of world it was as a dog eat dog world and knowing humans I knew some humans would just resort to human nature as we do a lot. The whole zombie apocalypse and trying to tell meaningful stories is also something that I feel has just been way over done for me personally. So it's ok, but I'm meh about it as a story and gameplay wise it's cool.
I really liked TLOU2. And, yes, it was *really, really dark.* But. To be fair - I think this is part 2-of-3. It's the ' Empire Strikes Back' one, where there are no winners. I suspect Ellie will have a third and final installment, where she - Like Joel, or rather, through his memory - finds herself again. Obviously there is another gruesome adventure, but this time around she cares, teaches and protects for another. But, ultimately - instead of choosing for herself like Joel did- she sacrifices herself for the greater good in some capacity. I don't know. It's just what I expect, really. I'm fine if not. Because, regardless, I genuinely loved TLOU2 for not doing another glorified power-trip or something, but gives you a moment to pause and reflect on the violence you dish out. If that's not your cup-of-tea, then... Go play God of War. It's there for you.
Many movies & video games promote the philosophy that revenge is necessary or righteous. The Last of Us Part 2 challenges this point of view by asking the player to reflect on the possible consequences of revenge. This is an awesome achievement for a video game.
Best review on UA-cam who truly understands the complexity of this game. I used to be a hater when leaks came out. I even refused to play for a month when it got released. Now that I finished the game I really think this is a true masterpiece even more so than TLOU1. I have never played a game that put me into depression and kept making me think about it after I finished it. This game broke me and I’m still recovering. I cried when I saw Abby tied up on the poll at the beach. I can’t wait for her to come back on TLOU3. If I have to, HAVE to point out something, I wonder if the rope play was needed in the game. I thought it made the game too uncharted like. Also at the end I feel like Ellie changed her mind a little too quick. I wish it was a bit more dramatic before she decided to spare Abby’s life. Thats just my $0.02 10/10 nonetheless.
Been watching you for a long time Vic. Great review, it’s nice to see someone talk about this game in a mature thoughtful manner instead of just shitting all over it because apparently that’s the cool thing to do these days. Just finished it today. Yes I was not a fan of seeing Joel killed off and I was not happy at first about playing as Abby but looking back on everything I think they did a fantastic job. Looking forward to part 3 ! Keep it up Vic!
I agree so much with this...the main point is that it's incredibly fun to play and beautiful to look at. You may not like the events that happen, but that's how lives play out. The writing is smart because it doesn't cater to what we want and forces us to want something entirely different: for Abby to live. Some may disagree, who miss the point of the game, but I wanted her to live. The image of her and what she becomes at the end is heartbreaking. Every slash of Ellie's knife hurts. They achieved what they wanted. The death of Joel is realistic because it is dark, brutal and quick. It keeps you angry and playing with the motivation of Ellie. When you play as Abby, they don't want you to like her. They want you to grow to like her and sympathize with her. People who miss the point of the game are the ones who are upset that Abby doesn't die. If you are upset that Abby doesn't die, then play the game and let her get killed by Ellie in the theater confrontation and then turn your Play Station off.
Glad to see Electric Playground is still going strong, I remember watching back in the G4 days! It's always nice to hear Victor's take, he's up there with Sessler in terms of really breaking down games and examining them in depth.
Love this game . O was mad , upset, crying , sad and angry . I was so invested with the stories from each character that this game exceeded all expectations and then some
Wow just wow Vic. Besides this wonderful video explanation on your well constructed thoughts. Imo TLOU 2 is a Misunderstood Masterpiece. You radiate this glowing aura of immense charisma. Wish I followed your channel and your days at G4 or Tech TV from the start.
Truly beautiful review that doesn't let any of the hate get in the way. Finally someone who understands great storytelling and not the typical stock thing that's been over and over again. You really outdid yourself with this and it's amazing and I thank you for it. I don't see how anyone could not love or be impressed by this game. Maybe if you're a sexist or a bigot but other than that it's one of the greatest games I've ever played. Also it wasn't Joel who got them caught in a trap it was Tommy who said their names first and if they hadn't have gone there so fast they would've been overun by the infected. An immediate threat vs an uncertainty. He had no clue they were hunting him and they had lived so long in that town among so many people who knew his name he probably wasn't so scared of being ambushed or that he killed that girls father. That's my take on that issue. Again though, after watching Angry Joe, Yongyea, and so many other male insecure reviews I'm very happy to see that you really understood the game. I mean we already have crazy types add fuel to the fire that had some already sending death threats to a voice actress of Abby. It's alarming! Like I've already said to others, over 4 million people bought it and by a wide margin loved it. It's one of the best stories in any game ever. I am so tired of people wanting the standardrized hero's journey, the traditional male and female roles, the good guys are always the good guys, the bad clearly bad, almost always saves the day. This is more like GRR Martin style of storytelling and I'm so thankful it was. It felt real and powerful. I've wrote too much but I'm passionate about this game and just get annoyed with views that miss so many story beats and themes. I love the game and your review. You are truly an amazing journalist. Thanks Victor!
HAHAHHA male insecure reviews ? Lol. This has nothing to do with being a bigot or sexist, the story just didn’t appeal to everyone and IMO it was flaming garbage. And in all those “male insecure reviews” you notice that all of them enjoyed the gameplay aspects, graphics, music but their contention with the game was the story which is mediocre at best.
Great summary dude, on point!!! I wanted to pour over this when I beat it but couldn’t put it in words. I’m also VERY aware of social media animosity in general not just towards this game. For 7 years + social fell over themselves predicting part 2 and I’d like to think most, if not all were wrong. This certainly is not “the further adventures of Joel and Ellie” and why should it be? and NO THAT IS NOT ELLIES MUM! ...and no David (genuinely) is not in this game?!?!? So very bold / brave decision by Naughty Dog to do what they did. They DO ask a lot but as a consumer it’s up to us how we approach that experience and that’s exactly what it is, an experience. Like you and a lot of people here it’s lingering in my head just like the first did.
The only game I played through twice. Definitely a beautiful masterpiece. Two problems with the game, the plotting slows the game down, bouncing around from Ellie and Abbie, among other times. But the main problem was calling the game The Last of Us Part Two. Like The Matrix sequels, almost impossible to please everyone, still fun and great movies. The excellence in the game definitely over rules the flaws.
G L reason why they they called it part 2 and not tlou 2. Was because for naughty do it’s not a sequel. It’s the second part in a story they want to be telling.
I have no problem with how they sequenced Ellie's parts, Abby's parts, and their respective flashbacks. If they had presented everything linearly and chronologically, there wouldn't be as much plot to chew on and decipher, there wouldn't be a massive cliffhanger right in the middle, and it wouldn't be the rollercoaster that it was. For example, if you didn't already know that Ellie would murder Owen and Nora, you wouldn't have felt that same anguish every time the story brings them and Abby together.
Ok thank you very much. I was kinda struggling about my opinion about the game. At first after I got to the ending I was pretty much in love with it but then I noticed how sad the entire game actually is. Especially the fact that Ellie's last conversation ends with "I'll see you around." and that she lost her fingers so that she can't play the guitar properly anymore which pains me a lot because I'm a guitarist myself. Then I watched a lot of video's about Joel's death scene and it came to me that this makes no sense because Joel is like the most paranoid character I've ever seen but then it got to me that the events of the first game are already 4 or 5 years back and it made all sense. And thanks to you I'm ready to say that the game is truly a masterpiece even. I'm pretty sure that it's gonna haunt me for the next weeks as well. I just loved the love story of Ellie and Dina
I enjoyed the first half with Ellie. I'm not enjoying the 2nd half with Abby. I really just don't want to play as Abby...... I love the survival horror gameplay. I'm struggling with the story though.
The story is a struggle and I had a hard time playing as Abby at first, but some of my favorite moments in the game are with her lol. What helps is that she has her own arsenal of weapons and abilities.
@@jamesmcdonough4901 I felt that way too at first but grew to love Abby. Not something I thought would be possible considering what she does at the beginning!
@@jamesmcdonough4901 definitely do! I think it was a design choice to make you hate playing as Abby at first, but she will definitely grow on you about half way through her campaign
Be prepared for an ending thats NOT very good imo, no spoilers but damn its a doozy....Game plays fine, its a GREAT looking and playing suspenseful game but endings are important.
I still cant stop thinking about this game, it's been 2 weeks since i finished it in hard mode and now Im replaying it in survival and planning on grounded mode. This game feels better the more you play it
I finished this game Friday, and I have not been able to stop thinking about EVERYTHING! My goodness.. the only game to actually make me have full blown crocodile tears down my face..
Every play a Final Fantasy Game, Metal Gear serier entries, the previous entry to this very game? I mean the previous part of this very same game series was more heartfelt, had beter charactarisations and a stronger narrative. Have you played it yet? :P
I think most of the hate is people who expected another game like the first w/ Joel and Ellie on an adventure with a happy ending. That may have appeased more of the population, but would've led to a much less engaging story. On a serious basis, what is wrong with the game? "Joel dies, you have to play as Abby for 10 hours, and she gets spared in the end." I'd bet anyone who plays Part 2 without playing TLOU loves this game because they can see that no one is a hero or villain. Ellie is the same as Abby, trying to avenger her father's killer. In the end she only realizes that Joel wouldn't have gone out on a revenge spree as it's really pointless and will only make you lose more.
Easily one of the best games I've ever played. Amazing ending, It kept be guessing the whole way through. I had no idea which way it was gonna go. So many shocking deaths and brutality, but also so many beautiful and touching moments along the way. Joel and Ellie in the museum, Abby and Owen in the aquarium. The NPC characters in this game are the most organic and realistic I've ever seen, so well done. I didn't want to like Abby but after going through so much with her and understanding her, I really like her. I think this game is about the cycle of violence and revenge and also how we are all a product of our world and circumstances. Never had a game be so thought provoking and such an emotional roller coaster, it really is a masterpiece. Great video! I agree with all your points, It really is haunting in a good way.
Amazing Content! Thank you sir for discussing this. Definitely the best game for me so far. I really love the game. I totally agree with all of your 10 points especially the last one. “The game haunts you”!!! YES 2 weeks after beating the game and here I am, still playing the game all over again because I just cant have enough and watching review videos of those people who have the same love for the game! And here commenting On your great video. Great content sir! You earned a sub 👌😍
I agree with you. The last of us games are amazing happy sad scary somethings all at once. I never felt sick to my stomach before in a boss fight. When your Abbie going after Ellie and that the end when Ellie was holding Abbie under water I was tapping Square think to myself. No dont do it stop. The games are heavy make you think and I love them both. At the end Where do you think Ellie was going?
I had similar feelings. This game stirs up so many emotions. I think Ellie was heading to Jackson, because likely Dina and JJ were there. A lot of people assume Dina not being at the house meant she was breaking up with Ellie, but that may not necessarily be the case. It's extremely difficult to be raising a baby and running a farm in the middle of nowhere *all by yourself.* Dina needed support, and she had no idea if/when Ellie would be back. Plus, being in Jackson meant JJ could be close to his grandparents, who were still dealing with the loss of Jesse. It only made sense for her to go there. Dina may have felt hurt, but there's a lot of love between her, Ellie, and their little potato. I wouldn't be surprised if they could work things out in the end. ♥️
I cant believe I've been watching Vic Lucas talk about games since I was 8. Im 30 now and the guy is still on point. I just finished the 2 games in the last couple of weeks and im super sad its over, but at the same time im not even sure if i want it to continue. This game makes you feel so many different things. I honestly do not even understand the amount of hate it has gotten. Great vid EP
If the entire population was polled 1) Would you sacrifice a loved one to save the human race? 2) If yes would you want them to know or do it in a way that means they aren't aware 3) If No would your loved one saying they want to sacrifice themselves change things for you? Would you still "save" / protect them or would you accept their wishes and agree to it. Would you feel any guilt after choosing to go against their wishes? These choices are so deep and there is no correct answer. Its likely this poll would be divided. So then parents out there how would you react to this poll?
The game's incredible. Seeing the dislikes on this video annoys me so much. Hopefully the ridiculousness of the trolls doesn't affect the potential for a part 3
what trolls. most of us aren't ridiculous. rather we got actual criticism that is logical. u just gotta look for the people who are willing to logically discuss with u, rather than blindly call haters/lovers of the game stupid.
@@samthong3305 Which is why I'm referring to the trolls, and there are quite a few. These are not people with actual legitimate critiques. Giving the game 0's out of 10 is trolling, period. Rating a game down b/c a storyline doesn't play out the way someone likes, screams ridiculousness. Gotta look at the whole package objectively.
This is such a thorough review of the intricate details that make this game so great. You clearly understand it and deserve a lot of credit for touching on every aspect on it from a level perspective. I didn't know what to expect with the game but loved the intensity and the deep story and character arcs. They took you on a journey of empathy unlike any I've ever been on. Thanks for a well thought out review of the game and laying it out with good info!
"The games that you play in your mind after you put them down are the best video games." Couldn't agree more. Glad that I found your channel sir.
I realize I'm pretty off topic but do anyone know a good site to watch new movies online ?
@Christian Roberto lately I have been using Flixzone. Just search on google for it :)
@Emerson Devin Yea, I've been watching on flixzone for years myself =)
@Emerson Devin thank you, I signed up and it seems like a nice service =) Appreciate it!
@Christian Roberto happy to help xD
As someone on the other side of 50 whose only child is a young daughter I can't help but think this is still a story about love and the lengths we'll go to do what we feel will either honor that love or assuage the pain from the grief we've experienced. I am in no way judging others who have stated, "the first game is about love, while this one is about revenge." It's just that my perspective on life may be different...you can't revenge or avenge someone purposefully without the strong bond of love that causes you to take such action...and to the extreme extent and detriment those fateful decisions impacted the primary characters and the other characters in their lives, herein.
I can't ever imagine losing my little girl. I can't imagine ever experiencing that twice, so I absolutely know where Joel is coming from in TLOU and why he did what he did and why I'd likely do the same (sorry world). And I DO GET that he would do it all over again even while he is on the floor in front of Abby in TLOU2.
So, yeah...they told a story about love. The lengths that it will drive you. The anger it will cause you. The pain that it will burden you. The rage it will fuel you. The possibly unnecessary sacrifices it will put upon you. And in the denouement the realization that others love as hard, as angry, and as meaningfully, with all the same consequences, as you.
That is a pretty damn impressive gamut to run in any medium. It is an extraordinary one to run in gaming.
Preach it brother! 🙏🏽
Well said!
Couldn't agree more.
I think my big issue with Joel’s choice is that it was a very selfish move. He did it for himself because he just didn’t want to let Ellie go, knowing full well that it was not what she wanted. I understand his motivations but I don’t like when people are like “he saved her!”. No, he didn’t. He did exactly the opposite of what she wanted. His actions were completely self serving.
NoctemAeternusMusic I wouldn’t say it was selfishly done for himself, he told Marlene it ain’t up to the fireflies to decide what happens with her life. If they simply discussed all options and spoke with both of them maybe Joel wouldn’t have lost all sense of reason. The “doctors” didn’t even wait for her to wake up and ask her questions like normal doctors would. They seem to be just as murderous to me. Also shoving around the guy who travelled so far to deliver the cure is plain idiocy. The fireflies seemed to me like they were in such a hurry to be praised as hero’s instead of terrorists that they forget how to properly do their jobs. But I do have to agree and don’t see either side as fully being in the right but that’s one of the things that makes the story so interesting wouldn’t you agree? And he saved her and himself both in a sense that they got to live somewhat normal lives for a couple of years afterwards. You can argue that Ellie held this against Joel but you can’t deny that they both got to live a pretty decent decent life til they ran into Abby and the cycle of revenge continued.
I’m 18 minutes into the review and it’s already one of the best and accurate reviews of the game I’ve seen. Though I never had the conflict of joel following Abby. Tommy said that Jackson gave everyone a chance to start over. Joel has been living in relative comfort for 5 years, not killing people, not being attacked by hunters, having a safe community and trading with people travelling through, he’s not the same guy he was 5 years ago because he isn’t in the environment he was always in where it was kill or be killed. It irks me when people say it isn’t canon, clearly it was. He got used to his new life here and didn’t have the same suspicious mind set he had back then, otherwise he wouldn’t have even attempted to save Abby in the first place, he’d have let her get mauled. There is a lot of growth to Joel’s character and the second game gives us a brief chance to see who he really is, who he had become. I have so much love for that character. It was hard going but this was the best possible story going forward. Thanks for a great review!
This game took me through an experience no game has done before. One thought I did want to share, was about caring for Abby and Joel's death; I didn't necessarily end up caring for her deeply, but playing her story and understanding her experience - and the lengths she went through to find Joel - justified Joel's death through her character (in addition to the justification provided by the events of the first game). His death, although brutal and sudden, was only achieved through Abby's absolute obsession. I don't understand the argument that the way in which Joel was killed was bad writing. One person dedicated a great portion of their life for just that. In many ways, I feel like the way in which Abby accidentally stumbles upon Joel proves that Naughty Dog thought long about his death, and respected it, because even through Abby's absolute obsession, she didn't get the satisfaction of the hunt. It took the control out of her hands. It was thrown upon her due to Joel's own drop in guard from 4 years calming down while living in Jackson. This speaks to the point of the entire game, that obsession and hatred will never give you the outcome you hoped for. There are so many layers that I was constantly unwrapping throughout the game, that I was just blown away. The game really does treat you like an adult - one who can look deeper into people's motivations and your own. It's a shame that the loudest voices online tend to be the most closed off to exploring those nuances.
Also, just a week before dying, Joel had traded for coffee with a group that was just passing by. As far as he knew, Abby and friends were just another group of travellers that just helped save his and Tommy's lives.
It implies that there are parts of humanity that aren't all bloodthirsty power mongers and just want to survive in relative peace.
@@beardupbeerdown7355 Yes, this! Throughout the game there are times when it's brought up that groups come through the Jackson for trade and what not. So it's not like running into strangers is new for them. Plus, Joel's lifestyle is very different in Jackson versus his lifestyle in the first game. I also think that seeing a young woman around Ellie's age might have brought out his protective instincts -- helps that there was this insanely massive horde coming for them all too.
Dawn Webb there are notes scattered around about being being trapped and you meet those people in the town. One of them being “the bigot”. Can’t remember his name. He wrote a letter talking about losing his family and wanting to join the Jackson community.
It was honestly only by chance she stumbled upon them specifically and not other members, but not just suddenly stumbles, she was tracking whoever was at that outpost. They all ended up in that exact location because of the infected. So really, all she did was follow their tracks and end up being found trapped in the same herd of infected they were also trapped in. They didn’t let their guard down either. If we are being real, let’s say a real life situation that’s similar, you’re being chased by a mass gunman, you know he’s gunning people down with no remorse, and someone tells you it’s Safe to hide in this area, who/what are you going to choose? Take your chance with the dude with the semi auto or the person who’s also scared and trapped with gunman with you. You know there’s literally no where else to go. You gotta think quick now. It was either her location or fighting a unknown amount but clearly large herd of infected in a storm with little to almost zero visibility. It’s human instinct. Abby trusted Lev too. And Lev trusted Abby. Joel trusted Abby. People will trust in other people when they are placed into difficult situations That require an immediate decision and a fast solution. Ie they’re being surround by infected, this place we are in now is no good, people are sounding off options that are also no good, stranger knows a good place that we know will work, go with her or test our luck being surrounded. They could be survivors all they want, but they wouldn’t have survived that hoard coming through that door. I would’ve gone with Abby too rather than being torn apart by the infected. Even while playing I was totally fine with them going with her because I knew they’d be safe....well, for now lol
Very well said! That is what you can call a masterpiece, this game is for adults, let the kids just talk about how bad it is, doesn't matter. Some people just don't get the narrative of life.
I loved this game from TOP TO BOTTOM. Some people wanted another fun, emotional adventure with Joel and Ellie, but Naughty Dog endeavored to give us something different. Something ugly and tragic. Something that would challenge the player's sense of "which character am I locked into," and "who am I supposed to be rooting for"? That's BALLSY stuff, ladies and gents, and it was executed MASTERFULLY.
@MaybeNextTime The point of the game is creating conflict
MaybeNextTime Go play fortnite.
Just because something is ballsy doesn't make it good
preach, I'm so glad they did not took the safest route with this
I feel there are far too many plot holes to call this game a masterpiece. I actually like the ending but feel they should’ve done the rest of the story better by making it make more sense
And Tess in the first game reminded Joel “we are not good people”. So as Joel said “our luck will run out”. And it was just how the story was going to play out!
"Its called luck, and it will run out"
Yeah, good point
Exactly!
Just played that part in the first game! Exactly!
So Tommy saying Joel's name was luck running out ? Ok
The way Joel says “why don’t you say whatever speech you’ve got rehearsed and get this over with” tells you right there he knew eventually someone was gonna come after him for the things he’s done and he was prepared to pay for it. we just happened to witness it at the beginning of the game
Yep and why Abby response is 'Guess'
And why Ellie doesn't speculate to Dina why it happened because there were many people that Joel wronged in his life.
4 years of a better life in Jackson has relaxed him beyond his usual cautious self and his past caught up to him.
I agree but why did he say "yal act like you've heard of us or something" I love this game but that line is so stupid and makes Joel seem dumb. I hate it.
@@markhill8150 I would be saying that if people reacted in that way when hearing my name... like crack a joke of being famous. I found it quite natural and in line with Joels humour and bravado from the first game. Each to their own though
Yeah he knew that he was going to die from saving Ellie, not because he killed a nobody, which it is since it's not even the same person from pt. 1 to pt.2
Sure, that's why he was like: Hi, I'm Joel, I know someone could be chasing me, but no problem, I'll be friendly
So far I think last of us is one of the best game franchises out there, and honestly I think last of us 2 was a better game. I've never played a game that took me through an emotional ride the way this game did. Hoping for Ghost of Tsushima to do the same.
don’t know if you’ve played Ghost yet, but I don’t think any game for a while will be the rollercoaster TLOU2 is
dont mean to dissapoint you, but after TLOU2, Ghost of tsushima is incredibly bland and generic, I was also hoping for it to surprise me, but I font know that if after last of us everything else feels bland, or if its just not good story wise. its still fun to play and I intend to finish it, but it is basically just another assasins creed game, good, but no masterpiece
I agree. I've never cared so much about video game characters. It's a brutal world, but ultimately it ends with some hope.
I shed a little tear at the end of Ghost, LOU2 had me weeping almost throughout. Haha. I agree that LOU2 surpasses the original.
You need to play more games.
I absolutely love the game. I played it faster than I was intending to but i couldn't put the controller down. I can understand why some people might not like the game but for me, it was every bit as good as the first one. I hope this isn't the end of the franchise as Ellie is probably my favorite video game character ever.
I wanna part 3 with just her tbh. I warmed up to Abby at the end and enjoyed her section, but Ellie is so hard to rival with in terms of character intrigue. I really want another game with her.
@@major4211 yeah if they were going to have a second playable character tho, I reckon Tommy would be pretty epic as a playable protagonist.
@@ninaa4192 Tommy isn't in the best shape these days... Though I guess that could introduce some interesting gameplay mechanics.
@@major4211 i love Abby! I wanted to hate her but Laura Bailey is too good a voice actor at sucking you in and warming to her character
Totally agree. It's a masterpiece and I'm playing it the 3rd time.
When I finished the game I felt emotionally drained from playing it but I absolutely loved it however I still couldn't even look at a PS Controller for about a week. I just had to take time to mull over and digest everything that had happened. The last game did a similar thing to me but this game surpassed it. I have never been so fully drawn into a story and gotten so emotionally involved in two characters. This game didn't just show you a story, it made you physically feel what the characters felt.
I went into Abby's story just wanting to get back to the Theatre but by the end I was dreading it as I didn't want any more of them to die and I was so relieved Ellie spared Abby at the end of the game, for both their sakes. It was jarring when you start Abby's half as your rage meter against her is at 100%, but when Seattle Day 1 came up I immediately knew what ND were going to do. Although I didn't want to play Abby at that stage, they had dropped enough breadcrumbs in Ellies story that I was intrigued by what else had been going on during Ellies rampage as she had obviously arrived in the middle of something so I was happy to let it play out. Some people felt Abby's story was very flashback within a flashback but I didn't feel that. Her story had very little to do with Ellie until they cross at the end. It really felt like her own separate story rather than a flashback within Ellies. It showed she thought she had closed that chapter of her life and was trying to work out what to do next. She is gradually evaluating what she has become to get revenge and hates herself a bit like we do at that point and is struggling to make better choices. The two stories are one characters descent into darkness and one characters rise out of it but is so well told you root for both of them. You want Ellie to make better choices but you understand whats driving her forward. You want Abby to find a better purpose than the one that drove her for 4 years and find a way to be a better person.
I like how each side is told totally from the perspective of who you are playing as. Some people couldn't grasp that and were continually criticising characters for doing things based on information that was never in their side of the story. EG.
"OMG Abby said 'Good' when she heard Dina was pregnant. How can you like her?",
"Abby just found her pregnant friend murdered, she see's it as balancing the score",
"But Ellie killed Mel in self defence, it's not the same",
"Abby doesn't know that. From her perspective she arrives home and finds Owen and an obviously pregnant Mel lying dead on the floor, murdered by the people she has just found in the theatre. Oh, and she doesn't actually kill Dina in the end",
"But...but, she still wanted to"
I didn't think I would be able to face playing it again it effected me so much but I have now started my second play through and am glad I did as it is an easier emotional ride second time round. Now you know the story, you are ready for the gut punches and can take in more of the details. You know where you don't have to worry about an ambush and can really enjoy looking around. I also found I can now detach the game play from the story and play the combat more arcady without feeling so bad about it (though I'm still trying to avoid killing as many dogs)
With Ellies story it was nice to see her and Dina back at a more innocent time and I'm noticing a lot of little dialog details that foreshadow things later. EG. In the pet shop Dina jokes with Ellie about them raising a small creature together. First time through its just a funny bit of throw away banter. Now I realise she was trying to feel Ellie out about them raising a child together. I started to notice how often she is holding her tummy when Ellie isn't looking. The game is full of gorgeous little details like that.
With Abby's story I'm playing her more Gung-ho. First time round I played both her and Ellie very stealthily. I think that was a mistake. Ellie is sneaky but Abby is a tank. I found I was looking forward to getting to her half this time so I could really unload a bit and thats where I am now. Story-wise I'm looking out for the details I might have missed or misremembered for her as well. Of the two that stand out so far, the first was when she wakens up right at the start of the game in the lodge, she's just had that same recurring dream about her dad's murder. It explains why she was so quick to go off on her own and why Joel saving her in no way evened the score. The second was I had forgotten Ellie never heard the argument about sparing her and Tommy and that it was Abby who made that call. We only get that in Abby's story. So yeah, I'm with you. To me the game was a masterpiece that surpassed the original. 10/10
I just started my second playthrough and I don't remember Abby saying to spare Tommy and Ellie. When was that said? I remember Owen saying it first during Joel's death scene, and then Abby agreeing with him.
@@Homeboy_Brando Abby is just numbly staring at Joel's body while Owen stops Manny killing Ellie. Then the others all start arguing with him. It's Abby who makes the call to leave them alive. Notice that when she says they're done, none of them argues about it with her whereas they were almost going to shoot Owen over it. She's clearly the "alpha" and it's her decision they go along with.
@@dorkangel1076
I wouldn’t say she’s the “Alpha.” We’ve clearly seen them argue with her too. It was just her mission. She found the tip on the location of Tommy, she set up the whole trip to Jackson, went to Issac to give the go ahead, and she has a more personal reason than the others because Joel killed her father. Not an “Alpha,” but more like she’s in charge of that specific operation. They all seem equal to each other after that mission they had. And technically since Owen said it first, Abby agreed with him. And you said you only see Abby made the call in her side of the story. That part is when the story is shared.
@@Homeboy_Brando It's more to do with the fact that when we play Ellie's side, she is in shock over Joel's death and the conversation is just muffled. In Abby's side, we get the full conversation. If she's in charge of the mission as you say, then it's even more her call to spare them. Whether as "Alpha" or mission commander it's her final decision for them to live.
@@dorkangel1076
We don’t hear it in Abby’s story. Before everything gets muffled, we hear Abby say that. I might be misremembering though.
This was one of the few games that I felt some people just didn't fully understand. I see it when I watch spoiler reviews and see critics say things like... "It just didn't make sense!" then afterward ranting about what there owed and how the game fails to deliver what they wanted. I felt that this was a realistic portrayal of how people would actually act under these kinds of pressures. Given the situation in the world currently with the real pandemic, I think people are having trouble dealing with the actuality of what humanity does when faced with true dread and it's often not the desired result that movies and fiction would have you believe. This game caused us to look at our own reflection and we were left wanting once we saw the cracks.
I loved this game and hope that more games could be made without the restriction of having to meet certain owed requirements just to be considered good.
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That said, I still like stock and trade easy to digest stories that put a bow at the end of the experience. This was something new and I hope it won't be the last time I experience a game like this.
Well said, I think gamers are just not comfortable with morally grey characters like they are with film and tv
Touché my friend
I agree with everything you said. The dialogue is still awful and does little to make a lot of players care about the new characters (Ellie was pretty unlikable here as well). Most definitely not a 10 out of 10.
I understood it just fine. Revenge is bad. I gots it, you would loose everything you cared about just like Ellie and Abby. I got it just fine. I didn't ask for the game to preach at me, try to make me feel sorry for killing people which is their intentions since they cry out that person's name when they get killed.
The game is complete garbage. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
@@LUCKO2022 The fact that you still think this is a game about revenge means you don't understand it.
People are out here complaining that Joel “deserves a hero’s death” but in the last of us universe, as Neil said, you don’t get that type of exit because it’s a cruel universe. I feel like a hero’s death would be too cheesy and they did the game just right. It’s sad you get crucified if you have your own opinion or liked any form of it...
FallenJr -_- I don’t think anyone wanted a heroic death it was just out of character of him and tommy, if you’ve noticed characters in this game seem to be super bipolar. Tommy doesn’t want revenge but than he does but then he doesn’t but than when they are living the dream life in an apocalypse, living in a safe farm with a kid and tommy decides that revenge is now needed? Other than Abby, lev and yara every new character felt empty and were just... there. You can say Jesse was good but after he got shot it was like he was erased from everyone’s memory. This is the man who is the father of Ellie and dinas child and he is just forgotten like that. the game is more like a 7/10 than a masterpiece.
Syncron Games I think your comprehension of the events is what is off. He never was cautious about getting revenge or didn’t want to get it. He was acting that way to protect Ellie from getting herself killed as he snuck out of camp early to get revenge solo. He also developed the obsession of enacting revenge to the point that Maria couldn’t deal with it any longer. Also, don’t use bipolar to describe character inconsistencies- that’s offensive. It also isn’t an accurate description. Bibolar means to be up and down, not agreeable and disagreeable. More importantly, let’s just not use mental ailments as a comparison for something negative. That’s the same as calling something that seems dumb the R word. The moment they do already tells me the emotional and intellectual capacity of that person and let’s just say, in your case, I’m not impressed. Certainly not surprised you’re blaming the story for your own incomprehension of it. That’s not the story’s fault, that’s you.
I don’t understand how ppl think it’s out of character for Joel to trust Abby. He has been settled down in Jackson living a somewhat normal life without having to sleep with one eye open for 4 years. I just wonder (for the ppl that disagree) what would y’all do different. Do you let Abby get eaten by the runner? Do you try to survive the horde and just let Abby go her own way? Because if you don’t go back with Abby to the house they probably die n get eaten.
Christopher Thames Because 4 years of a normal life doesn’t make up for 20+, Yes Joel did live somewhat of a normal life in Jackson but in the beginning of the first game before the 20 year time skip there was a family on the road that needed help. And this was when Joel lived a normal life btw he told tommy to keep driving and left the family to their own demise. This is a man who was living a normal life and had a family he could not trust people before the apocalypse even fully began, but you’re telling me that he would open up to armed strangers during the apocalypse. The thing is you’re seeing it from your point of view, Yes there were people who came through Jackson to trade and Joel was open to talk to new people but that’s because he was safe inside Jackson, When Ellie went out on her patrol at the front gate there were about 6-8 armed people that were probably guards, like Any places eg QZ Boston, wlf base people who came to trade were searched for weapons so why would there be any reason for Joel not to trust the traders. While in abbys case we didn’t know Joel didn’t know what their intention was 100% ( this is the guy who spotted a fake injury from a hunter while in a car 100m away) about 7 armed people who he didn’t know who they were and he just trusts them with his name known the shit he did in his past. Tommy did give up Joel’s name which was really out of character even though him knowing what Joel has done. It’s a really big plot hole. Yes people can change in 4 years but that doesn’t erase their past and allow them to trust every person they interact with
The problem I found with Joel's death was not the fact is wasn't a "hero's death" (Joel wasn't a hero and he'd be the first to admit that) but that it didn't fit his character.
We saw this man all through TLOU1: he was a hardcore veteran survivor of the apocalypse. Clever and brutal with a trust-no-one mentality who wasn't afraid to kill and torture and leave people to die. He may have lived in Jackson for several years, but he lived with that survivor mentality for 20+ years...yeah, he's never going to get out of that mindset. Psychology doesn't work that way. That's a mindset that has you sleeping with a knife under your pillow for the rest of your days even though logically you know you won't need it.
I would have believed it far more that even if he died, he still at least tried to knife one of them on the way down: if you're going to die, you're going to take at least one of the b******s responsible for it down with you. He wouldn't care that his leg was hanging off. And it feels far more in character for Joel to try something like that with his dying breath than to not even throw a punch.
The reason joel was so trusting was because of a couple reasons. The first was there was a horde of infected running them down and they had no where else to go and abby took them in. The second is that abby and friends did not kill Tommy and Joel immediately, which is all there is in the world of the last of us, survival. And the third reason is joel is just more trusting after the first game. His whole arc was reconnecting with his humanity and finding a way to trust people for example Sam and Henry.
I totally agree with this. There’s even collectibles at the beginning that describe the people of Jackson actively welcoming people they meet. They are trying to live in a more wholesome way. Old man Joel is a beloved member of this community, with wholesome old man hobbies like wood carving and guitar making. He’s clearly more open and less on guard; you don’t get that many cards and flowers in front of your house after you die by keeping people at arm’s length. It’s strange to me that a lot of people didn’t pick up on that.
And he just saved her life he might have thought that he had her respect
Right and if people walk around the town at the beginning they can over hear conversations where outsiders have stopped into town and are resupplying, so the town was not closed off and completely protected and isolated anymore.
@@rodrigo354 I also saw exactly the same points.
Plus I do feel most hate is cause he died at all.
They were inviting them in to the town Joel was already known in the town during her visits in part 1, they don't think that Tommy must have talked about his brother Joel to other town members and then he moves in with a different identity.
Even the town would not have trusted him if he did that, so Joel changing his name
was not a good choice. Even if that had been done, Abby and her gang would have infiltrated the town and then figured it out and ambushed him. I don't know how this approach would have been better. Plus the way he went fit the world so much and the hate you feel for Abby and her gang was also perfect motivation for Ellie and us.
Wrong. Joel and Tommy were out on PATROL. They weren't out picking flowers.
Thank you, it's been a week since I beat it and I'm still looking for spoiler discussions because it still lingers in my mind.
Lingers huh? Long after it's over? A mark of a powerful story right there.
Here I am a month after beating the game and I haven’t stopped thinking about it lol
Yes man!!! Omg!! I seriously thought I have some issues cause I beat it 4 nights ago and it’s is weighing sooooo heaving on my mind it is ALL I been thinking about!! How I wanna go back to that world again because it is so EPIC and how it envelops you COMPLETELY!!! I feel like an addict how it’s all I think about. This piece here is a Gem!!! Never a game has done to me what The Last Of Us Universe has done!! Naughty freaking Dog!!! Wheeeew takes my breath away!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Imo it's not a game that you beat. Just one that you finish. :(
@@zayk6713 Couldn't¡ have said it better. Finished the game a few days ago and Im still mourning. Wanting to go back to play the NewGame+ but Im not sure Im prepared to venture again in that powerful emotional ride so soon.
Ppl need to *REALLY* pay attention to small details like the little face expressions and head nods and body language.
Naughty dog is great at giving us subtle details.
Everyone is complaining and saying “why would Joel and tommy just willingly agree to go back with Abby and why would they give up their names so easily to a stranger.
Pls go back and play through the scene where they all get over run by a horde and trapped in the room. Tommy gives Abby their names only to calm her down. They were being over run and Abby was borderline having a anxiety attack so tommy says to her “hey you ok? I’m tommy and that’s Joel, what’s your name?” Making conversation to calm her down.
And during the part when Abbie says “my friends and I have a house down the road” pay attention- Tommy gives Joel a look that says ‘are we doing this?’ And Joel gives Tommy a look back that says ‘fuck it what choice do we have’
And Before Abby even mentioned her friends They were on the verge of being over run and caught in the middle of a blizzard, Tommy even says “the horses won’t make it” so it’s not like they just willy nilly followed a stranger, it’s the circumstances and predicament they were put in where they didn’t really have a choice.
Ppl should pay attention to those details instead of just screaming “bullshit! joel & tommy would never follow a stranger and give up their names
Wholeheartedly agree with this. It's amazing how much nuanced detail was put into this game and is one of those things where, if you really open yourself up to the story and are able to pick up those details, it just adds that much more to the experience. Absolutely amazing!
I have had this exact same argument many times over this. I've also had people claim they would never walk into a trap when it wasn't a trap. Abby's group don't know who they are and so are genuinely friendly when they arrive and grateful they've brought Abby back. When Mel introduces herself and shakes Tommy's hand she means it. At that point Joel not giving his name would be suspicious since Abby already knows it. Their only mistake in the whole sequence of events was missing Abby's reaction when she heard Joels name the first time. Given what was happening at the time, this was understandable. The details are all there if people bother to look.
Well said friend
Great points, and that makes sense for what they did with the story, but that still doesn't make me enjoy the direction they took it, or desire to play through Abby's story. I don't think it's poorly crafted, I just don't like the direction the story went or most of the characters on Abby's side. It's not my game though, so I'm not mad about their decisions, I just had expectations I hoped for after playing the first TLoU and watching the previews and trailers. Reminded me a lot of when I saw the Dark Knight Rises. Still a well-produced movie with great actors and sound, but I've never really wanted to see it again.
And then within a few minutes of Joel saving her life she decides to beat him to death with a golf club with no remorse? Just, nah
Just finished the game last night. Too often we are shown a revenge story where the character won't stop until the villain is dead, only for them to let up at the end. As the game was coming to an end, I thought that the first farm scene was the epilogue. After Tommy showed up, my stomach, as well as my girlfriend's (who has gone through both games as well), dropped. We knew what we wanted Ellie to do. To just move on and give up on the hatred, but that wasn't the story being told. The entire game kept showing how hatred only leads to more hatred. The two main characters were complex, and it was interesting seeing how Ellie succumbed to the hate, whereas Abby was willing to move on due to meeting Lev and Yara.
After the final battle between Ellie and Abby at the Pillars, I was hoping that we wouldn't see the girl we have gone through 2 games with, give in to the rage and do something that I would understand, but not agree with. Throughout the game, I found that it wasn't trying to justify what it was doing, it was only trying to show you why it was happening. It treated the player as an adult, with more grey than black and white, which a lot of games try to do, but don't completely commit to. As the credits rolled, and as tears streamed down both me and my girlfriend's face, I think the game achieved what it set out to do. It is another ending that is ambiguous enough to leave a sequel, but also a good place for the franchise to end. There are a lot of questions that I have that I don't necessarily want answered, and that's the sign of a good game for me. Definitely a 10/10 for the two of us sitting on the couch, and I can see how some criticisms are valid, but the amount of people who hate the game for the story choices and especially some of the gender/relationship choices are completely unwarranted.
My only gripe with the game is the lack of multiplayer, because I played hours of Factions on both the original, as well as the Remastered version. lol
Agree... but to achieve that feeling you are talking about there is the need of empathy. A thing many people who hate the game (not all) does not have.
Do you need to watch your girlfriend get addicted to crack, start selling her body on the streets, wither away and lose everything, in order to know that drugs are bad? That is how i feel about this games message, it was pointless for most people, but a good lesson for sheltered children i guess.
10/10 rating is just unrealistic.
Here's
my
take: The hatred that Ellie feels
for Abby is an externalized reflection of
the hatred Ellie harbors for herself. Why?
Well Joel deeply hurt both Abby and Ellie
in different ways and they both punished
him for it. Ellie hates Abby for torturing
Joel to death, especially because she didn't
get a chance to restore her relationship
with Joel. This is a mirror because Ellie
also tortured Joel, she did it for years
but in a different way, and I'd say in a
way that waS more painful for Joel, and
that was by disconnecting from him, She
hates herself for torturing him like that
and not restoring their relationship when
there was still time. That's the real pain
she has been trying to avoid facing during
this entire revenge quest, she's like a drug
addict usine revenee to avoid dealine with
addict using revenge to avoid dealing with
those painful feelings of regret. This is the
realization she has while she is drowning
Abby when she has the flashback to the
scene on the porch with Joel and chooses to
spare Abby. She's not just forgiving Abby,
she's really most importantly forgiving
herself and finally coming to terms with
what happened between her and Joel,
I thỉnk her leaving his guitar to rest în
the house and walking away is Supposed
to symbolically represent that she has forgiven Joel, made peace with what
happened between them and is finally ready
to move on and start a new life. I hated the
end at first but after much deliberation
I thỉnk it's actually really poetic. People
saying the game is just about "revenge is
bad" I thỉnk have really missed the point.
I got this thread from the user cynical idealist
@@Spidey-cw7kd thats an interesting observation. All I thought was she was just finally realising she was about to do the same thing abby did to her, murdering abby in front of lev for the same reasons abby did joel, and finally understanding abbys motivations, but deciding to let it go instead of cause more pain.
If we were supposed to feel more of ellies remorse for her angst towards joel they did a rubbish job of showing that. One journal entry, or one conversation with dina, could have brought that question into the plot. I think you are giving the writers more credit than they deserve.
There is a spoilercast with druckmann, troy, and ashley, where neil they say straight out that the game is about empathy, the cycle of violence and obsession leading you to lose everything, and the strength of love driving people to the worst actions. Thats it, that is what it is supposed to be about.
I don't understand all the hate this game is getting. It is a true masterpiece and I really enjoyed it! 10/10
i understand why people like it but i still hate it. probably a 6/10 for me
Masterpiece lol
i think most of the hate is because as much as YOU like the game , it obviously doesn't really work for many others who bought the game because of the misleading way it was advertised.
Its called an opinion if someone says dont buy it its their opinion
@@nadinefeiler9204 it's because Joel is amazing to us but in his world he is just a smuggler and a broken man who redeemed himself by taking care of a kid abbey went down the same route
I decided to play it for the second time rn on survivor and holy crap this game is scary on survivor trying to survive and use stealth.
Runners become the most scary thing ever besides stalkers
I just finished the second time on survivor. It was so amazing. I think no other game is gonna please me as much as this game for this year atleast.
Yeah, I'm gearing up for a 2nd playthrough on survivor. I'm already dreading that hotel level lol
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and mine is that I didn’t like the game, but I do respect the people that actually do like the game and we should not condone any type of threatening towards the actors or the crew. We are better than this
This so much! When I saw all the death threats that Laura Bailey received made me feel sick, it was disgusting. Sending death threats to a real person about a fictional character is so wack. There's seriously something wrong with some people. I hope they realise how fucked their behaviour was at some stage.
We're all allowed our own opinions, we are not allowed to wish death on anyone because of a fictional game. It's freaking gross. We need more people with voices of reason like yours.
Personally I loved the game but understand that not everyone will feel like this and that's totally fine.
Have a good one :)
Wow. You’re so brave for speaking out and choosing to be human.
Thank you, as someone who loved this game, I absolutely respect your opinion. I hate it when people can’t take each other’s opinion in a civil way. I consider games being an art, and art varies from person to person. But I absolutely hate people who sent death threats to the creators and the actors, they are absolutely low life
This might be the most polarizing game ever released. You are entitled to your opinion, and mature people will respect that, even if they disagree with it. Thank you for your nuanced video.
I keep hearing people question how Joel could fall for a trap like this and that it is not believable. It was not a trap, they didn’t know who he was.
when Joel entered the building only Abby knew who he was, Joel read the room as safe because it was safe, the people where relatively good people, and had no intention of hurting them. It was just bad luck that happened to be looking for him specifically, as soon as they heard his name, the mood in the room changed and Joel felt it immediately.
It's called luck, and it is gonna out...
What? How is it safe
@@FranP25 because they were not out to rob or kill random people. They were on a mission for one spacific person. Just sucks for joel that he was that person.
@@pudding0340 it wasn't safe, he didn't know any of them
@@FranP25 im sure joel has met people he didnt know before, thats gonna happen, other people werent looking to kill him though.
I finally completed this game early this morning, after two weeks of playing. Excellent game. I was very mixed about the story, but overall it leans to a positive side and it was just soooo well made, ya gotta respect the craftsmanship by all involved.
finally a balanced honest opinion.
This game and the divisiveness that it's created, gave a perfect example that people like different things, that everyone has an opinion, and many don't like it if your opinion is different from their own. And a lot of people don't have the maturity and the emotional intelligence to have a decent conversation/debate about something and respect the reasons why another may disagree with them.
I agree, a lot of tloup2 fans keep calling everyone who don’t enjoy it simple minded it really does get irritating at some point
As a TLoU2 fan, I keep getting called a “shill.” Also, people who hate the game keep writing me long paragraphs for why I shouldn’t. Works both ways I suppose.
Just like alll the Factions in the game. The WLF and Scars represent the fandom
Why the dislikes?????? He did a fantastic job!!! If you didn't like it then ok but he wasn't wrong. Its HIS OPINION and I agree with 90% of what he said.
It's pretty much any positive LOU2 video at this point. Certain people can handle the fact a lot of people love this game.
Because people don't think like you, that's why.
Yeah, any positive video on this game has people just show up and immediately dislike it. Which makes me feel like I need to immediately like it in retaliation. It’s a mess.
Good for you, but a lot don’t agree with his opinion.
@@PrayingWarfare so because you don't agree with his opinion you show hate??? Its not like he was being controversial or rude. I thought angry joe review of this game was a joke but I didn't dislike it.
My fondest moment from the game is one that I'd like to applaud Naughty Dog for; I'm so glad they chose not to give the player agency at the end and allow choice. I've watched a lot of streams and read a ton of posts about how those players felt cheated at the end of the final fight because they weren't allowed to make the final choice. To that I say, "it's not about you!" Congrats to Naughty Dog for telling THEIR STORY and not cheapening it with two different endings. This whole Consumer Control culture of railing against something that strays from their expectations is turning Pop culture toxic so props to ND for staying true to their vision. Look, I get loyalty and the concepts of allegiance but those players who couldn't relate to or refused to relate to or only kind-of related to Abby and STILL wanted to kill her missed the whole point of the story. This isn't a story about revenge it's about identity and tribes and what happens when we're asked to step outside the warm blanket that is , "Us," and examine the consequences of what your choices do to the, "other."
Given what's going on in the real world right now, Naughty Dog's new offering couldn't be more relevant or classic.
Your reply is as beautiful as the game sir!
They wanted it to be that you strangle Abbey and stop when you realize you're horrified by your own actions. But the play testers kept throttling her. It's a long road to Bethlehem.
"This game haunts you." YES! Still thinking about it. Absolutely loved this experience of a game as it still resonates with me long after playing.
I agree, it was a masterpiece. I beat it over the course of 7 days, but it was always on my mind through those days. So much character nuance in this game, beyond the details. Like most people don't even notice Abby's vertigo Effect and panic attacks when she gets close to an edge up high and you look down.
Tayta Tot
This game is special. Love it! The purpose and story of this game blew over a lot of people's heads. The ending was so powerful and it really hit me. This game is definitely 10/10.
I love this game and will be getting the ps5 version for sure. Its clear how much work went into this product and it really shines on a 4K TV. Everything feels so real. The combat was a lot easier this time round so I enjoyed it more then the 1st game. The story is really effective, I thought the made a really solid provocative story here and it is getting a lot of reaction and talk going. I like that its not all roses in a fairy tale though. The best part of it is the story because it needs to be told.
Me too
I think it is already confirmed that it will be part of the boost mode offer of ps5.
So there wont be a dedicated os5 version as it seems. But I’ll play it again and platinum it on ps5 with a new 4K hdr tv probably too
It took Naughty Dog years to make this game. Is it worth it? Oh yes. It is a masterpiece. My emotion went up and down, left and right when playing this game. The game is so well made that we all care about some of the characters. I never thought video game could make me sad and even cry. The Last of Us and the Last of Us II did. What a game! Kudo to Naughty Dog. Can't wait to play another Naughty Dog game.
Finished the game yesterday. Wow. Amazing. I felt the hate for Abby and I felt resentment towards naughty dog for making me play as her at first. I knew what they were doing and I didn't want to empathize with her. But dang it, it happened and by the end I didn't want Ellie to kill her. Incredible story. That's why I love video games 😍
You felt the hate for Abby 🤨
@@sapphire5396 ya I mean I felt hate towards her (as much as I can hate a person who isn't real) and understood why people were warning me before I played it I wouldn't like her. Thankfully no one spoiled it for me. I hope they make a 3rd game and give us more Abby, Ellie interaction somehow. Like a necessary team up or something
This was the most powerful gaming experience I've ever had. Truly elevates the medium for how effective a story can be told. Like many others, I thought there was no way I could be on Abby's side.. but it happened. This is one you have to experience to truly understand the story it's telling. I don't think reading about it or watching it will have the full effect. It's a lot! Being a guitar player had a huge emotional impact for me, which I never expected. 11/10 - still blown away.
Thank you! Some one gets it 🙏
Great review, I shared a ton of thoughts with what you put in here! Especially the "honoring Joel" bit. This game is still very much about Joel even though it may not look like it. His actions were the catalyst for basically all the plot points (besides the wolves vs seraphites) and his death served as the motivation for Ellie, Tommy, Jesse etc. I'd say it's almost too centered around him to the point that Ellie doesn't feel like her own character, but rather an extension of his will, since she seems to spend most of the game trying to be more like him. She even makes her final decision to spare Abby because of the thought of him. But I guess her leaving the guitar behind in the final scene is showing that she's moved on and is ready to start living for herself. At least that's how I'd see it.
I think Naughty Dog did an extraordinary job on this game. This game had me scared, sad, high anxiety, even uncomforting at times...the game is beautiful, the attention to details is just amazing. For example, you blow someone up, pieces of them will stick to the ceiling and even drop. I'm already on my 3rd round playing this game, I've beat twice. I'm not ready for Survivor, yet, lol.
I love having ALL the weapons as you play through the second time.
"The game is beautiful. You blow someone up, pieces of them fall from the ceiling." Bro, get some help!!
JK, you're absolutely right. I don't think I have ever felt a sickening sense of terror and dread -- that I actually derived pleasure from. The design of the lower hospital levels was on point, but the hotel descent was so brilliant: a goal of simply getting to the ground floor, but it's a F%$&ing skyscraper. It's not infinitely tall, but it feels like it goes on forever. That halfway point where you can briefly see the sky again. I wanted it to be over with, but I knew I would really be sad when it's over. I probably spent 3 hrs in there on my 1st playthrough. I don't think I have ever enjoyed anything more in gaming.
A month has passed and I'm still playing. The Last of Us Part 2 is shattering, exhausting and breathtaking. It's the most profound gaming experience I have ever had.
I'm almost done with my third playthrough, love coming back to this game.
@@apictureoffunction I'm about 5 hours into Grounded mode... A whole new ball game. Makes Survivor mode look like Super Mario World! You must give it a try!
@@deanwalker870 couldn't agree more.
Yes man!!! Omg!! I seriously thought I have some issues cause I beat it 4 nights ago and it’s is weighing sooooo heavy on my mind it is ALL I been thinking about!! How I wanna go back to that world again because it is so EPIC and how it envelops you COMPLETELY!!! I feel like an addict how it’s all I think about. This piece here is a Gem!!! Never a game has done to me what The Last Of Us Universe has done Especially this one!! Naughty freaking Dog!!! Wheeeew takes my breath away! It has been haunting me immensely I can’t stop!! But in a very very verrry good way!!!!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ 100/10
Great video! I agree one hundred percent with your insights.
Fortunately I played it to completion without any spoilers. As someone who has been playing video games for over 40 years, I can say that this masterpiece is unlike anything else I’ve played. Congratulations and thanks to Naughty Dog for the experience.
I agree with everything you said, Victor. This game proves that our medium is capable of delivering mature, emotional, and heavy narratives that don't just pander to the lowest common denominator, or to John Carmack's old "story in video games is like story in porn" adage. I don't like what happened to Joel or how it happened, but Naughty Dog still crafted such a powerful narrative, that in the end, you just can't fight it. Everything that takes place, from Joel's death right down to Ellie's final decisions resulting in something so tragic as rendering her unable to play the guitar (something that was like a part of Joel that stayed with her), all of that... I don't think it could've been done better, and removing any one of those elements would have made it weaker. It's a heart breaking game, through and through, and the fact that this medium is able to bring that out in us is a massive testament to how far video games have come.
Very well written and well said, Kova. Agree with you 100%.
Funny how a convoluted, miserable, and and generally unlikable story now panders to highly intellectually capable people.
Great insight 12/10.
It's also worth mentioning that after 4 years of living the good life in Jackson--where they let in strangers all the time--Joel let his guard down. Jackson got to him and changed him, because people change. People acclimate to the environments they're in. People are fluid, and characters should be, too. It's as simple as that.
4 years doesn't just erase 20 years of survival. plus he's OUTSIDE the safety of Jackson. and we don't even get any buildup or subtle hints that he's sloppy. why does he even let a far larger group surround him from inside. just look at him and ellie reacting to sam and the other guy from the first game. trusting, but more cautious.
@@samthong3305 I agree that hinting that Joel was getting sloppier would have helped support the character choices. But I still think 4 years is well enough to coax someone into a vulnerable state, especially since Jackson is a trading post that regularly interacts well with strangers.
it really calms me down finally reading such a good commentary section
I appreciate your views here, however I can't agree on many points. Catch you on the next one.
At least you're civil about it. Thank you
@@trevorcooper3268 Lucas is a great host, but even if not, there is zero reason to be rude or hostile. Thank you, all the best to you and yours!
Man this game is a masterpiece. I just beat it the day before yesterday and it was such a privilege to play this game. I love TLOU 1 & 2. Looking forward to TLOU3. I just beat it because I don't have a lot of time to play video games but I bought it day one. Thanks for this positive review. As a casual gamer who plays mostly triple A titles... who's not interested in specs and all that, I appreciate this man. Take care.
This has to be the best game I ever played in my entire life. Months after playing it and I still think about it. It made a huge impact on me. Just LOVE IT.
The creators did something very meaningful to the video game world here. And one big thing that sticks out to me from the story is the lack of empathy and understanding among humanity. All main characters were driven by the same kind of pain. But none of them ever considered asking any questions to those who took their loved ones. Joel could not imagine losing someone he loved a second time. Abby could have tried to understand his motives before shooting him in the leg. But anger and hatred are great medicine to numb the pain of loss and despair. The characters ran away from their pain instead of feeling it and trying to understand the pain of others. And that created the hell they lived through and put others through. Ellie literally leaves a piece of paradise to go back to hell and seek revenge once more. It’s very powerful story telling. It’s a masterpiece of our time. And strong emotions in players about it only reveal how they themselves deal with loss.
Lastly, it’s a masterpiece in survival horror, period. The moment you meet the Rat King Must have been the purest moment of horror I have experienced in a loooong time. It was a defining experience in that regard. The atmosphere and music… SO good!
it is a masterpiece. I can understand people, who dislike the story, cos they wished another adventure like part 1, but for me this is a perfect sequel. Joel deserved to die in this way, Yes, he was a great character but did bad things. the price had to be paid imo. Sure, it could happend later in the story, but otherwise there would be no reason for ellie to start her adventure. But just to the world and all of the characters ... fantastic. It broke my heart, but the experience ... it was great. THX naughty dog for this rollercoster. perfect ending.
Matthias Grabo “if I had to do it all over again, I would do it exactly the same”
Shumayel Khan then you got to take it like a champ(Negan said before killing Glenn and Abraham) like Joel did before he died. He told Abby to get it over with he had an angry face 😠 before the torture. But he took like a champ.
"He got what he deserves," same can be said for Ellie and Abby, they both deserve to die. What about Sam, Henry, Riley and Tess, did they deserve to die? Makes you wonder about the "He deserves it" trope, don't you think 💁🏿♂️🤔?
I kind of disagree with the criticism that Joel wouldn't have fallen into the trap, mainly because it wasn't a trap. From his perspective, he was on a routine scouting mission when he was attacked by a swarm of infected. The infected drove him and Abby together and put him in a situation where he either went along with her to a safe place, or he could take his chances going elsewhere and most likely be killed. He didn't have much of a choice. So he did the logical thing and went with Abby. Doesn't mean he didn't completely let his guard down, but he was trying to act friendly to a group of strangers so that they would let *their* guard down. But of course, by pure chance, he was the person they had come to kill. There's no way he could have predicted that.
Everyone has their opinion ... I personally don’t agree at all, but that’s me.
I could watch and listen to you talk about videogames for the rest of my life. Your takes on everything is so spot on and intellectual. The Last of Us 2 definitely took a toll on me man. I didn’t know Naughty Dog could outdo themselves. I love it.
I agree. After wanting Abby dead, she wound up as my favorite character. My thoughts at first play through was that maybe I’d have the choice of which one I’d be at the end. I eventually wanted them to just stop. So much loss.
I wish I could get there, because that’s what the intentions were; it just didn’t... i wish the studio came to the realization that it would have been better to edit Abby’s storytelling and release an earlier game before “part 2” that ends with a reveal that her hidden adversary is Joel’s family... it would have been a brilliant twist like Shyamalan’s twist at the end of “Split”: even Shyamalan knew we couldn’t EQUALLY invest in both the protagonist of “Unbreakable” and the troubled antagonist of “Split” in the same story...
@@hellfish2309 I invested in both Ellie and Abby. Abby's story has some parallels with Joel's .
The game is one of the best ever. The game's story isn't bad, it just hurts to experience some part of the cruelty of the real world in a game.
Regarding Joel falling for the trap, I’d also like to say he has probably been softened up a lot by living in Jackson for the past 4 years, and being a father to Ellie. So he’s much less guarded and more trusting then he would have been prior to this time. So in a way him finding someone to love again lead to his demise.
But the game wasn't perfect, mostly because of severe pacing issues. Loved the story telling so much though. 8/10 for me.
Man i was thinking the same for joel. Im really happy I'm not the only one.
Wow!!!. Loving someone lead to his demise! Perfectly said!👌👌 im playing the game a 2nd time and im enjoying it more. Probably because i already know what happens!
Could you give an example of what you mean by poor pacing, just trying to see if I agree
Shumayel Khan i see a lot of people say pacing issues and plot holes yet no one want to tell us where in the story specifically are these issue present?
What I see is a game that use the story style of movies switch from character prospective. There are many movies 🎥 like that want the viewers to see both sides of the story. I like how Naughty Dog humanize the enemies, giving them a name and even story purpose. I like the part where Abby walks through the Washington Liberation Front bases an you see most of the characters Ellie might of killed during her playthrough! Including the PS Vita girl named Whitney who actually have some additional dialogue. A game that came really close to this was Metal Gear Solid 5 when you play as Big Boss, but the enemies you kidnap hilariously with a drone that flys them back to your bases 😂, are too genetic and robotic to care about. Last of Us 2 did the best job humanizing enemies seeing things through their perspective. I like that and even the ending for the game.
I mean, I find it difficult to believe Joel would let go of a mindset he had for at least 20 years just because he had it easy for 5 years (according to Wikipedia the game takes place 5 years later, not 4).
I love the fact that Tommy shoots Manny in the head, it pays back to that time he spit on Joel. Dude I was shocked when Tommy was that sniper, this story is full of such moments, how many times do you get that from other videogames? Fckin love it.
I have found reasons to refute most points of criticism on this game, but I still cannot figure out why Naughty Dog had Manny spit on Joel. He would've otherwise been a completely likeable character (still, I really was saddened when Tommy killed him).
@@Don2006 He doesn't the player's point of view of Joel, so I understand why he would spit on Joel from his point of view.
Because of that I did find him a likeable character.
I think the biggest challenge with this story only becomes one at the end depending on how emotionally bankrupt the player is. It really is as simple as that. I think this is a mature story that fills in the gaps of it's supposed open endedness with your own experiences in life dealing with anger and grief. The story is a much different story for people who have lost a parent than it would be if both parents were alive and did too good of a job to shield them from harsh life lessons they haven't experienced yet. Ellie is disassociating, or so it seems, by her journal entries. She can't properly grieve Joel. It all makes sense as to why she focused her hurt onto Abby beyond just killing Joel. She also killed her scapegoat into properly dealing with her pain. At the end of this story, I came to the conclusion that Ellie's quest for revenge doesn't end in specifically choosing to end the cycle of violence. I think both characters already wanted that to end before their last spar with each other. It was more about Ellie not being able to forgive Joel. In the end, she does, and for Ellie to forgive Joel for killing her spirit and taking away her life's purpose is to also forgive Abby for killing him for doing the same to her. I understand the conflict of losing a father who was seen as Evil by other people and not know this myself until later in life. Where you cannot find an ounce of understanding for why they had done what they've done, but you still have these memories that have shaped you into the person you are because of their capacity to be funny or loving isolated from that. I feel like I understood Ellie very well and maybe that guided the story to be more about my own story. Or maybe my assumptions are correct and it's just my experience in life that allowed me to understand it more readily. Either way-- it really touched me and the relief of Ellie finally understanding what is driving her and to stop killing Abby was so huge. I loved this game and it's just one of those things that I think isn't as impactful to an emotionally immature audience.
I honestly don't know if the game "haunted me" but it's definitely still with me. If I being brutally I never hated Abby for one second. I didn't know if I'd end up liking her but never did I think Ellie's revenge was more important, because as you said Joel sealed his fate at the end of the og. this sums up my feelings perfectly because it didn't matter whether I understood what Joel did or whether or not I truly grew to like him because at the end of the day Joel demonstrated that he was just as brutal and selfish as anybody that we'd fought along the way. And this is from having replayed it very recently btw. If you really want your mind blown I think I liked Abby more at the beginning of her ark then I liked Joel at the beginning of his. seriously. I remember replaying the game and thinking whether or not this game had held up for me on the account of me not liking Joel as much as remembered. thankfully my love for Joel returned but I never once viewed him as a hero let alone as someone who shouldn't have to pay for their sins. Another reason why Joel's Death didn't affect me on a deeper Lvl was that I thought it was going to be a lot worse. I never read any suppliers so my mind ran wild, I almost always assumed that the spoilers centered around Joel's death but for a short time I considered Ellie might be raped and or maimed and I swear I that even considered the possibility of Ellie killing Joel, which seemed logical for about an hr...lol. I eventually settled on You killing Joel as another character after I saw a YT vid with Abby as the thumbnail. Compound that will the fact that I had watched a few reviews that seemed to find it odd that the game would try humanize a character that otherwise seemed completely monstrous. so I was expecting burning flesh, I was expecting torture. I was expecting pleasure. but no, he gets shot in the leg and hit over the head. Hell I don't even think Abby was hitting him the head when Ellie first comes in the room. and lastly, the image of Joel while slightly Gruesome it was hardly on the lvl of Glenn's eye-popping gurgle on TWD imo. now before you label me a heartless vampire it's worth noting that I had a big problem with that final battle. as in I was deeply embarrassed that the game was making me do this and why my rating for the game is 9.5 as opposed to a 10. atm. I might come around on it as I understand it meant to show how both characters have come full circle, but my god that was uncomfortable. so... yeah, maybe the game did haunt me a Little bit. hahaha. Moving off that, I honestly think I liked Abby very early on. The little things like interacting with Many's fathers or talking to Mel about her obsession with dog toys and then, in turn, Abby bringing up her obsession with coins for example. But the eureka moment for me was when you go to the hospital with Lev. I remember Lev asking Abby if she was ok her going Fine.. I was like omg! this is the spirit of TLoU right here!! Or in other words, this is Joel and Ellie without it having to be Joel and Ellie and it works!!!! anyway, that's all for me. I really wish you and Tommy would argue about this game tbh. lol!
I played through it in 4 sittings. It has been 3 days since i finished it and I can’t stop thinking about it.
Exactly how I feel about it. It's in my top 5 games of all time and I don't even like Zombies...
It's just a powerful experience.
So you know, I watched the leaks when they first surfaced, I was angry about what I saw. Then I played the game, I absolutely loved it. At the end I didn’t want Ellie or Abby to die. Thinking back on how emotionally distraught about finding out you have to play as Abby, then playing the game and really caring for Abby during my play through, is wild. I’ll always think about if I was able to avoid watching the leaks, my curiosity was just too strong...
The only problem I have with the game is that sometimes the AI like Dina or Jesse or Lev would come to where I was in cover and push me out of that spot and I would get found because of it, it happened 3-4 times. There were close range pop in graphic textures and environmental pop in. In the end, it’s by far the best looking game I’ve ever seen, full stop.
I’m so excited to hopefully play Factions MP with these graphics and gameplay. TLOU2’s gameplay is my favorite. I still play TLOU Factions MP 7 years later, the new multiplayer is going to be amazing. I hope they announce multiplayer soon.
Yet you didn’t care about attacking literally complete strangers that had nothing to do with Ellie’s revenge.
Platinum Shores Attacking complete strangers depends on how you play the game. Feel free to try and stealth it. Besides, the game does a good job of portraying the Wolves as bad guys in Ellies half. Since they attack on sight, you could justify it to yourself as self defence. The two bits that really effect Ellie are Nora which was torture and cold blooded murder (though she was dying anyway) and the shock of realising she'd killed a pregnant woman.
Bruce Crawford It’s not just gameplay wise, Ellie done a few evil things in cutscenes too.
Just finished it. I agree it's a masterpiece.
A game that makes you think this much and has this much controversy is an event, it's a shame people are not approaching this with an open mind, would it have been more pleasing to have Tommy or another character die to send Joel and Ellie on another adventure mixed with revenge? yes but this is not a bad game- some parts were a little long but this was a good game, some parts were incredible- not a home run but an achievement in the next step- I do believe Ebert would have said this and game one was the closest thing to a movie as far as emotionally moving you.
Killing other characters and having Joel and Ellie traveling again would be the easy and “not risky” choice, i’m glad that the creators were brave enough to make this amazing story.
Exactly! This game shows how many people are narrow minded and like classic hero storys. That's why hollywoods predictable movies work so well. The story is superbly written for my taste. Lot of surpirses and unconventional editing and dramaturgy. Maybe to "sophisticated" for the average gaming audience. Angry Joe gave it a 6/10. Pleasing the haters and kiddies I believe.
caerbenogg I just hope this doesn’t send a message to other AAA studios that the general gaming audience is not ready for more complex narratives
@@ca20mn I don't think we will ever get a narrative like this in a game again. Sadly
I love Joel, he is a great character. However he has done some awful things.
At the very start of the first game he left a family stranded
We know that he was a hunter praying on innocent families (which is how he recognised the ambush)
He has murdered and tortured a load of people
And killed a doctor who was making a cure for all mankind.
We love Joel because we feel we know him and understand some of his motivation
The Story of TLOU2 sets up to show us how Hate Blinds us
I HATED Abby, at about 3 times in the game I put down my controller
But by the end, I understand her too, I don't forgive her, but I understand her and no longer hate her
Great Gaming Experience
Gareth Dennis nailed it buddy!!!
So the doctor wasn't attacking him with a scalpel? Also, you make it seem like it was absolutely going to be a cure, that's just not how it works. Also they said a vaccine, you cant vaccinate a fungus, only a virus. I dunno, the story just didn't work for me.
Rao Kineda inform yourself. There are several vaccines in the work against funguses that harm humans.
Just google it.
What is right is that they are not available and there are studies ongoing.
But stating you can’t vaccine funguses isn’t right.
A vaccine Is going to make the immune system capable of defending itself against biological intruders.
It doesn’t matter if this are virus, bacteria or funguses
Guess we need a story about David now eh? Everyone in that world has done horrible things but Joel bad Amirite
@@raokineda exactly Joel killing of Abbys father at best comes down to self defense. At worst second degree.
Abby on the other hand plans tracks and commits premeditated murder after brutally torturing. Brings all her friends in as accessories and ditches them all shortly after for the enemy. But all these half wit idiots think Joel bad now cause Druckmann say so.
I haven't smoked in years....after beating this game, I bought a pack KOOL 100s. I'm not joking, it did something to me. Currently on my 2nd play through now...No other game has left this kind of Mark like The Last Of Us 2
Just quit smoking dude. 🙈🙃
Newspaper headline: Last of us 2 gave me cancer!
I don't think that's a good sign that the game is good lmao
Leave the cigs alone. I've been wanting to quit for YEARS. No game is worth picking this terrible habit back up.
@@Nelson_Swamp oh I got off that real quick sir...lol
Loved this game. Absolutley incredible. its been almost a week sinse I finished it and I can't stop thinking about it. I can't recall a game effecting me this much. I want to replay it but I'm just not ready.
Loved your video, I apprieciate your thoughts.
😐😤 I'll your respect opinion
I just finished the game- I'm glad I took it slow. It allowed me to process everything at a pace the characters could not, which made me extremely frustrated with them.
However, the game encourages you to be empathetic in such a real way, it's so beautiful and incredible.
I'm not really a gamer, but I knew the last of us was a story that I needed to experience. It is so real - it is frustrating for me to see the intolerance for the game. I'll just concentrate on how it changed my life and I'm so lucky to have played it
This game is a 10/10 for sure. I didn’t expect that Naughty dog could exceed the first game, but they did it.
The characters, story, and gameplay are a step forward for this series. Also, the violence is gruesome, by the end of the game having a NPC scream out in pain as he is missing a limb still didn’t sit well with me. Kudos to Naughty Dog, so far this is the best game I’ve played this year.
Been a huge fan of your's for years and usually I agree with your opinion when it comes to game scores. Really respect your opinion on this title but I personally felt detached from the game due to the story and writing. The game play and graphics were amazing though. Looking forward to seeing more from you in the future.
Yes that’s the best word I would use to describe my experience here, “detached”
Totally agree
Lozi Magonegro I dunno what you’re smoking but majoras mask was well written and so are other Zelda games. They just don’t spoon feed you the story.
The "none of it mattered because the cycle of violence goes round and round" nihilism was boring. And people saying there are no good and bad guys clearly dont understand that murdering children for science is evil. Joel was not selfish for saving Ellie. For me felt like another forgettable Call of Duty "story." A ton of high production flash and spectacle, but little substance.
Agreed that everything else was great, but 1/3 of the way through I was just not interested in what happened to any of the characters. Getting to explore the art work of the next set piece and killing baddies were the motivations for playing - and paying $70, the latter of which should not be ever be a reason.
@@BlackMageLozi Most people don't buy mario or zelda and think "oh boy I'm so hyped for the new storyline and new lore!" No people buy mario and zelda for the gameplay. They're 3d platformers and action games. Completely disingenuous argument bud. Not to mention that MM actually had a pretty well written and nuanced story.
I don't care what others say about this game. After playing and letting the story sink in I actually really freaking enjoyed it. So much tension in the game. Fear of losing someone in every part of the game. Saddest ending in gaming history. Lol
Trust me, they are not so much as they think. They are vocal because contrary to others who are playing the game they are not laying it. But things are getting balanced as the time goes by.
@@sandrobsnake I say give it 5 years and this game will be regarded almost as highly as the first.
@@skullcrusher_1 The thing about this game is that you hardly can be ambivalent... you either love it to death or hate it...
@@sandrobsnake can you love to hate it??? 😂
Just finished the game, and yeah, it’s at least a 9/10. The ending blew me away. I’d say this qualifies as one of the best revenge stories ever told. The fan backlash is so frustrating; I saw it coming months before release, and predicted a Metacritic review bomb. Still, the mass negative response is truly baffling to me. Is it that people are simply averse to games that make you think about the horror of killing?
Gamers clearly can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Just that classic " You didn't tell the story that I would have written" entitlement. Which sums up the majority of the consumer base.
I wouldn’t call this groundbreaking work a revenge story, it’s more about forgiveness, perspective, & empathy.
I Buy Digital That’s wrong. It’s not because they wrote it differently than expected. It was for many controversial reasons. I can list many if you prefer
@@SuperSymbiote1 Controversial? More like completely unsubstantiated controversies.
uhuhuh1966 oh yeah, I agree. I’d throw hatred and violence into the fray as a theme as well. It really tackles the dynamics of human violence from multiple angles (with empathy serving as the solution to said violence).
I just beat this last night. I can't stop thinking about it. What a game. An absolute masterpiece imo. I praise Naughty Dog. I can't imagine the amount of work that goes into something like this. I agree with everything Lucas said here. Definitely one of my favorite games of all time! I'm gonna take a little breather and then try out New Game+ and blow the hell out of everything 😁
*The Santa Barbara section was my favourite. And Vic, you are right, the game is haunting. Ellie has gone down as one of video gaming's most badass females.*
I went in without any spoilers or indication that so many people hated the game and I absolutely loved it.
Did the same and hated it. Have you played the last part?
It's such a shame that there's folk out there than can't appreciate this game. It's not a Disney plot line so it automatically gets shade? The game forces us as players to own up to the fact that life doesn't always go as planned, our moral compasses don't always point north and that sometimes we have to just live with the choices we made/didn't make. Great review Vic.
I agree with you totally
I would say I don't throw shade but I don't like the story. I also don't need a Disney plot line either, but I was perfectly fine if Abby or Ellie or both died in the end. I knew what type of world it was as a dog eat dog world and knowing humans I knew some humans would just resort to human nature as we do a lot. The whole zombie apocalypse and trying to tell meaningful stories is also something that I feel has just been way over done for me personally. So it's ok, but I'm meh about it as a story and gameplay wise it's cool.
Very happy you enjoyed it Vic :)
I really liked TLOU2. And, yes, it was *really, really dark.* But. To be fair - I think this is part 2-of-3. It's the ' Empire Strikes Back' one, where there are no winners. I suspect Ellie will have a third and final installment, where she - Like Joel, or rather, through his memory - finds herself again. Obviously there is another gruesome adventure, but this time around she cares, teaches and protects for another. But, ultimately - instead of choosing for herself like Joel did- she sacrifices herself for the greater good in some capacity.
I don't know. It's just what I expect, really. I'm fine if not. Because, regardless, I genuinely loved TLOU2 for not doing another glorified power-trip or something, but gives you a moment to pause and reflect on the violence you dish out. If that's not your cup-of-tea, then... Go play God of War. It's there for you.
Why all the dislikes? We get it, you thought the game was bad. Let someone else have their opinion. Thanks for the great video.
they just don't want to understand
Yeah, and those people also have an opinion
@@osma6913 thats a dumb reason. maybe its just cus we got actual legimate reasons to hate it.
Many movies & video games promote the philosophy that revenge is necessary or righteous. The Last of Us Part 2 challenges this point of view by asking the player to reflect on the possible consequences of revenge. This is an awesome achievement for a video game.
Best review on UA-cam who truly understands the complexity of this game. I used to be a hater when leaks came out. I even refused to play for a month when it got released. Now that I finished the game I really think this is a true masterpiece even more so than TLOU1. I have never played a game that put me into depression and kept making me think about it after I finished it. This game broke me and I’m still recovering. I cried when I saw Abby tied up on the poll at the beach. I can’t wait for her to come back on TLOU3. If I have to, HAVE to point out something, I wonder if the rope play was needed in the game. I thought it made the game too uncharted like. Also at the end I feel like Ellie changed her mind a little too quick. I wish it was a bit more dramatic before she decided to spare Abby’s life. Thats just my $0.02 10/10 nonetheless.
This is the probably the best review of the game out there. Subscribed 👌
Been watching you for a long time Vic. Great review, it’s nice to see someone talk about this game in a mature thoughtful manner instead of just shitting all over it because apparently that’s the cool thing to do these days. Just finished it today. Yes I was not a fan of seeing Joel killed off and I was not happy at first about playing as Abby but looking back on everything I think they did a fantastic job. Looking forward to part 3 ! Keep it up Vic!
I agree so much with this...the main point is that it's incredibly fun to play and beautiful to look at. You may not like the events that happen, but that's how lives play out. The writing is smart because it doesn't cater to what we want and forces us to want something entirely different: for Abby to live. Some may disagree, who miss the point of the game, but I wanted her to live. The image of her and what she becomes at the end is heartbreaking. Every slash of Ellie's knife hurts. They achieved what they wanted. The death of Joel is realistic because it is dark, brutal and quick. It keeps you angry and playing with the motivation of Ellie. When you play as Abby, they don't want you to like her. They want you to grow to like her and sympathize with her. People who miss the point of the game are the ones who are upset that Abby doesn't die. If you are upset that Abby doesn't die, then play the game and let her get killed by Ellie in the theater confrontation and then turn your Play Station off.
Excellent review!Thank you.
Glad to see Electric Playground is still going strong, I remember watching back in the G4 days! It's always nice to hear Victor's take, he's up there with Sessler in terms of really breaking down games and examining them in depth.
Love this game . O was mad , upset, crying , sad and angry . I was so invested with the stories from each character that this game exceeded all expectations and then some
Wow just wow Vic. Besides this wonderful video explanation on your well constructed thoughts. Imo TLOU 2 is a Misunderstood Masterpiece. You radiate this glowing aura of immense charisma. Wish I followed your channel and your days at G4 or Tech TV from the start.
Truly beautiful review that doesn't let any of the hate get in the way. Finally someone who understands great storytelling and not the typical stock thing that's been over and over again. You really outdid yourself with this and it's amazing and I thank you for it. I don't see how anyone could not love or be impressed by this game. Maybe if you're a sexist or a bigot but other than that it's one of the greatest games I've ever played.
Also it wasn't Joel who got them caught in a trap it was Tommy who said their names first and if they hadn't have gone there so fast they would've been overun by the infected. An immediate threat vs an uncertainty. He had no clue they were hunting him and they had lived so long in that town among so many people who knew his name he probably wasn't so scared of being ambushed or that he killed that girls father. That's my take on that issue.
Again though, after watching Angry Joe, Yongyea, and so many other male insecure reviews I'm very happy to see that you really understood the game. I mean we already have crazy types add fuel to the fire that had some already sending death threats to a voice actress of Abby. It's alarming!
Like I've already said to others, over 4 million people bought it and by a wide margin loved it. It's one of the best stories in any game ever. I am so tired of people wanting the standardrized hero's journey, the traditional male and female roles, the good guys are always the good guys, the bad clearly bad, almost always saves the day. This is more like GRR Martin style of storytelling and I'm so thankful it was. It felt real and powerful.
I've wrote too much but I'm passionate about this game and just get annoyed with views that miss so many story beats and themes. I love the game and your review. You are truly an amazing journalist. Thanks Victor!
HAHAHHA male insecure reviews ? Lol. This has nothing to do with being a bigot or sexist, the story just didn’t appeal to everyone and IMO it was flaming garbage. And in all those “male insecure reviews” you notice that all of them enjoyed the gameplay aspects, graphics, music but their contention with the game was the story which is mediocre at best.
Great summary dude, on point!!! I wanted to pour over this when I beat it but couldn’t put it in words. I’m also VERY aware of social media animosity in general not just towards this game.
For 7 years + social fell over themselves predicting part 2 and I’d like to think most, if not all were wrong. This certainly is not “the further adventures of Joel and Ellie” and why should it be? and NO THAT IS NOT ELLIES MUM! ...and no David (genuinely) is not in this game?!?!?
So very bold / brave decision by Naughty Dog to do what they did. They DO ask a lot but as a consumer it’s up to us how we approach that experience and that’s exactly what it is, an experience. Like you and a lot of people here it’s lingering in my head just like the first did.
The only game I played through twice. Definitely a beautiful masterpiece. Two problems with the game, the plotting slows the game down, bouncing around from Ellie and Abbie, among other times. But the main problem was calling the game The Last of Us Part Two. Like The Matrix sequels, almost impossible to please everyone, still fun and great movies. The excellence in the game definitely over rules the flaws.
G L reason why they they called it part 2 and not tlou 2. Was because for naughty do it’s not a sequel. It’s the second part in a story they want to be telling.
I have no problem with how they sequenced Ellie's parts, Abby's parts, and their respective flashbacks. If they had presented everything linearly and chronologically, there wouldn't be as much plot to chew on and decipher, there wouldn't be a massive cliffhanger right in the middle, and it wouldn't be the rollercoaster that it was.
For example, if you didn't already know that Ellie would murder Owen and Nora, you wouldn't have felt that same anguish every time the story brings them and Abby together.
Ok thank you very much. I was kinda struggling about my opinion about the game. At first after I got to the ending I was pretty much in love with it but then I noticed how sad the entire game actually is. Especially the fact that Ellie's last conversation ends with "I'll see you around." and that she lost her fingers so that she can't play the guitar properly anymore which pains me a lot because I'm a guitarist myself. Then I watched a lot of video's about Joel's death scene and it came to me that this makes no sense because Joel is like the most paranoid character I've ever seen but then it got to me that the events of the first game are already 4 or 5 years back and it made all sense. And thanks to you I'm ready to say that the game is truly a masterpiece even. I'm pretty sure that it's gonna haunt me for the next weeks as well. I just loved the love story of Ellie and Dina
So you needed someone’s opinion in order to form yours ?
I enjoyed the first half with Ellie. I'm not enjoying the 2nd half with Abby. I really just don't want to play as Abby...... I love the survival horror gameplay. I'm struggling with the story though.
The story is a struggle and I had a hard time playing as Abby at first, but some of my favorite moments in the game are with her lol. What helps is that she has her own arsenal of weapons and abilities.
I'll try and power through it =)@@Maztuhmind
@@jamesmcdonough4901 I felt that way too at first but grew to love Abby. Not something I thought would be possible considering what she does at the beginning!
@@jamesmcdonough4901 definitely do! I think it was a design choice to make you hate playing as Abby at first, but she will definitely grow on you about half way through her campaign
Be prepared for an ending thats NOT very good imo, no spoilers but damn its a doozy....Game plays fine, its a GREAT looking and playing suspenseful game but endings are important.
"I'm scared of ending up alone." - Ellie
Unlike the first game, this is a story that relies on the strength of nuance.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lol. Awe No
True but I don’t know the ending felt a little rushed
I still cant stop thinking about this game, it's been 2 weeks since i finished it in hard mode and now Im replaying it in survival and planning on grounded mode. This game feels better the more you play it
I finished this game Friday, and I have not been able to stop thinking about EVERYTHING! My goodness.. the only game to actually make me have full blown crocodile tears down my face..
Aren't crocodile tears fake tears?
Every play a Final Fantasy Game, Metal Gear serier entries, the previous entry to this very game? I mean the previous part of this very same game series was more heartfelt, had beter charactarisations and a stronger narrative. Have you played it yet? :P
I think most of the hate is people who expected another game like the first w/ Joel and Ellie on an adventure with a happy ending. That may have appeased more of the population, but would've led to a much less engaging story. On a serious basis, what is wrong with the game?
"Joel dies, you have to play as Abby for 10 hours, and she gets spared in the end."
I'd bet anyone who plays Part 2 without playing TLOU loves this game because they can see that no one is a hero or villain. Ellie is the same as Abby, trying to avenger her father's killer. In the end she only realizes that Joel wouldn't have gone out on a revenge spree as it's really pointless and will only make you lose more.
Easily one of the best games I've ever played. Amazing ending, It kept be guessing the whole way through. I had no idea which way it was gonna go. So many shocking deaths and brutality, but also so many beautiful and touching moments along the way. Joel and Ellie in the museum, Abby and Owen in the aquarium. The NPC characters in this game are the most organic and realistic I've ever seen, so well done.
I didn't want to like Abby but after going through so much with her and understanding her, I really like her. I think this game is about the cycle of violence and revenge and also how we are all a product of our world and circumstances. Never had a game be so thought provoking and such an emotional roller coaster, it really is a masterpiece.
Great video! I agree with all your points, It really is haunting in a good way.
Amazing Content! Thank you sir for discussing this. Definitely the best game for me so far. I really love the game. I totally agree with all of your 10 points especially the last one. “The game haunts you”!!! YES 2 weeks after beating the game and here I am, still playing the game all over again because I just cant have enough and watching review videos of those people who have the same love for the game! And here commenting On your great video. Great content sir! You earned a sub 👌😍
I agree with you. The last of us games are amazing happy sad scary somethings all at once. I never felt sick to my stomach before in a boss fight. When your Abbie going after Ellie and that the end when Ellie was holding Abbie under water I was tapping Square think to myself. No dont do it stop. The games are heavy make you think and I love them both. At the end Where do you think Ellie was going?
I had similar feelings. This game stirs up so many emotions.
I think Ellie was heading to Jackson, because likely Dina and JJ were there. A lot of people assume Dina not being at the house meant she was breaking up with Ellie, but that may not necessarily be the case. It's extremely difficult to be raising a baby and running a farm in the middle of nowhere *all by yourself.* Dina needed support, and she had no idea if/when Ellie would be back. Plus, being in Jackson meant JJ could be close to his grandparents, who were still dealing with the loss of Jesse. It only made sense for her to go there. Dina may have felt hurt, but there's a lot of love between her, Ellie, and their little potato. I wouldn't be surprised if they could work things out in the end. ♥️
That's what I was thinking too. She was going back ask for forgiveness.
I cant believe I've been watching Vic Lucas talk about games since I was 8. Im 30 now and the guy is still on point. I just finished the 2 games in the last couple of weeks and im super sad its over, but at the same time im not even sure if i want it to continue. This game makes you feel so many different things. I honestly do not even understand the amount of hate it has gotten. Great vid EP
Stop scrolling. You know what's down there.
lol a circle jerk
If the entire population was polled
1) Would you sacrifice a loved one to save the human race?
2) If yes would you want them to know or do it in a way that means they aren't aware
3) If No would your loved one saying they want to sacrifice themselves change things for you? Would you still "save" / protect them or would you accept their wishes and agree to it. Would you feel any guilt after choosing to go against their wishes?
These choices are so deep and there is no correct answer. Its likely this poll would be divided. So then parents out there how would you react to this poll?
The game's incredible. Seeing the dislikes on this video annoys me so much. Hopefully the ridiculousness of the trolls doesn't affect the potential for a part 3
what trolls. most of us aren't ridiculous. rather we got actual criticism that is logical. u just gotta look for the people who are willing to logically discuss with u, rather than blindly call haters/lovers of the game stupid.
@@samthong3305 Which is why I'm referring to the trolls, and there are quite a few. These are not people with actual legitimate critiques. Giving the game 0's out of 10 is trolling, period. Rating a game down b/c a storyline doesn't play out the way someone likes, screams ridiculousness. Gotta look at the whole package objectively.
This is such a thorough review of the intricate details that make this game so great. You clearly understand it and deserve a lot of credit for touching on every aspect on it from a level perspective. I didn't know what to expect with the game but loved the intensity and the deep story and character arcs. They took you on a journey of empathy unlike any I've ever been on. Thanks for a well thought out review of the game and laying it out with good info!