You're Wrong About Tone
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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I was having one of my regular talks with David Barber about the sounds for a version of the BUSS and, as often happens, he began to explain to me how many parts there are to creating what we glibly refer to as simply "tone".
We're going to talk about the different characteristics of tone, what the tone knob does on your guitar vs on an amp and why Van Halen had a tone circuit but no tone knob on his Frankenstrat. (This last was totally news to me!)
Join us and bring your questions for David. As always, if we run out of "rant" we'll open it up to your questions as having David on is always a treat of deep education.
Keith
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Wow David Barber explains technical stuff sooooo good. I would LOVE to have a channel where David just breaks down complicated technical stuff into simple terms like he does so well
Fantastic interview!! As an 'older' guy, I've been using the middle position / mixed humbucker method from the beginning. Then, just over a year ago I purchased a DGT and began treating the bridge pickup (which I almost never used on its own) like a Tele bridge pickup-- rolling back the volume a bit and rolling back the tone knob. It's fun to hear someone knowledgeable about such things confirming techniques I've stumbled upon many decades ago :) Always something to learn in these interviews-- thanks Keith & David!
That was a great education and clarification on using the tone and volume knobs. It’s clear now. Thanks Keith and David
I dial from the middle pup selector all the time. There are more tonal options/nuances and better cleans in that position. It's also true what he said about using the treble pickup to control the gain.
Great show. I actually ordered my first Barber pedal (Direct Drive) yesterday. Can’t wait to try it.
Excellent ! I think I need to listen to this a couple more times to actually get it. I have been playing with the 4 knobs on my Epi SG with all 3 positions of the selector switch and have found an amazing range of tones.
Absolutely fantastic conversation with explanations of how tone works, and how to apply that knowledge. Please invite David back. That was pure gold! 👏👍😎
Great episode, David has great insight to all things tone. I don’t chase other peoples tone. I try to discover tones that I enjoy playing and I have found that when I have a tone I’m enjoying, then if I have the privilege to share that with an audience, they tend to like it as well.
What a great video Keith. I love David’s breakdown and analysis of what you’re hearing. I could listen to him for hours. Please have him back soon. Nice one!
Grissoms tone on Joe Ely's "Live at Liberty Lunch" AMAZING. Iwas there and have owned multiple copies of it because "stuff happens"
Excellent video and discussion about where tone is affected and how different it is depending on where it is in the signal chain
Dang I was outta town when this was live. David is one of the best, his explanations are always dead on. I always learn things, thanks Keith and David.
Haven't watched yet , but I'm a go'na!
Thank you for doing these and I believe I've been seriously chasing tone since '66'
Great video! David Barber is amazing explainning these stuff. Thanks!
Thank you both.
The guitar tone knob, pedal tone knob comments were exactly as my experience has shown. Just make sure your guitar tone pots and caps are good values and quality, you will find great tones. It’s massively opened up my eyes to the versatility of my strat. No need for new pickups.
I'm in love with my tone knob in a modern wiring circuit with the aid of a treble bleed. But it is a lot of work to get it right. You need a good variety of tone capacitors, treble bleed capacitors and resistors. I like orange drop capacitors. To start I'll use an oscilloscope to test all the capacitors for outer foil. Having outer foil on the ground side of the circuit is just a little bit quieter and sweeter. Then I'll hang alligator clips out of the pickguard and test different tone capacitors for the full range of usable tones before it goes to mud. Preferably hit mud on 1-2 then 2-10 is a useful roll off of treble. Next I'll start testing treble bleed caps until I find one that feels like it replaces what tone is lost best when rolling the volume back. Then start trying different parallel resistors until the treble bleed and the rest of the frequencies roll off as close to one as possible, solder it up permanently. Of course proper shielding and quality pots are all part of it as well. That's great volume and tone knob interplay with seemingly endless useful tones to choose from. I'm purely speaking guitar circuit. A lot more to a guitar than just that. But that's how I approach a guitar circuit. Not including coil splits, series, parallel coils, bleeding resistors directly off the pickups and all the other little tricks.
Thanks very much to you both for the useful insights 👍
This was really helpful guys.
It took me many years to understand what David Barber explains about the difference of the tone knobs on the guitar vs the drive pedal or amp. Now I generally leave the drive pedal more open and brighter and I knock back the tone knob on my Tele a little bit. That seems to be the sweet spot for me. I NEVER would have done that when I was in my 20's, playing clubs. My guitar's volume and tone were up full most of the time. (I really didn't know what I was doing!! Haha!)
Thank you for this. Very informative in a way nobody else has done.
I have three dual volume dual tone guitars...time to play with some tones. Thanks for another enjoyable video.
This was life changing for real. It took like no time to turn down my tone knob on my guitar and brightening from pedals to find a good sound thats easier to regulate
this is the best video on guitar tone i think i have ever seen. david is a incredible communicator
Great episode as always. I’m still experimenting with my Buss Pedal to understand what it will do in my particular circumstance.
Thanks ! This was a very interesting and informative video
I learned a lot from this video, thank you!
Excellent video
Great timing. I'm currently drilling this rabbet hole.
I''ve been running a preamp (JMP 1) in a preamp loop (PSA 1)
Because I like the way the Sansamp PSA 1's input EQ section works
Good conversation
Great content brilliantly explained
i have a gibson les paul standard 50s plugged into a boss distortion pedal plugged into a fender 1000 roc-pro sounds great
Love you guys. Lately I’ve been trying to encourage my less experienced guitar buddies to train their ears to discern the difference between dark and warm. You can really get clarity and presence with warmth if you think of the signal in the way that Dave is describing throughout this whole discussion. I think of Joe Bonamassa, JD Simo, and Robben Ford in particular.
I wish more pickup manufacturers would publish the resonant peaks of the pickups they make.
Ah, they pretty much all do.
@@kennethc2466 At least the two biggest aftermarket pickup mfgrs, Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio do NOT publish that information. Those that do are the aberration and outlier, not the norm.
I set an amp so a Strat sounds warm and clean on the neck pickup with the volume and tone down around half way, depending on the pots and caps used. Any more volume should start to push the amp over the edge, and the tone knob should be able to go from unusably muddy to unusably bright. Once you get used to this method it kills gas, you have so much control at your fingertips that if a pedal or amp is not quite to your liking then twiddle your knobs. Once I started doing it I was suddenly fine with using a small pedalboard and whatever backline the venu provided.
great discussion
I learned a lot from this video.
My two Telecasters are wired with the "dark circuit", but using a capacitor that makes it a little more usable. I could do that with my tone knob, but not nearly as accurately
I have Stellartone 10 which gives more control over the tone eq of the pickups on my Waghorn Sauria S with Suhr thornbucker II and 2 V60 LPs a little more than you talked about😅 go look for more
Never thought I'd bring up Celtic Frost here, but the tone on "To Megatherion" is a great example of turning down the guitar tone (Ibanez Iceman) to roll off the icepick/attack and bringing it back up on the amp (Marshall JCM 800) to push distorted overtones.
Absolutely great video, thanks for posting!!!
Jim Haubert here, nobody special, I purchased a Vertex Ultrphonix and Steel String Singer pedals and blended them together through my Marshall with my Holy Grail reverb and T.C. Electronic delay, finally found my tone, done chasing!!!
A rig (without changing settings) which allows for "fundamentals" having an added layer of texture (which may go unnoticed) is the allure which haunts my tweaking.
Regarding Larry Carlton's tone... Larry plays a late 60's 335. I have a 67 which I think has a tendency to be quite biting or brittle sounding even on the neck PU. I find that pulling the 335 tone knob back to 3 or so doesn't really wipe out the highs as you might expect as it would on say on a Telecaster (neck PU).
I’m confused about what order to put a particular in the pedal chain. For instance a tremolo or distortion pedal.
Should a player assess the "sweet spot" of each component of a simplified system (rig) before additions to that rig are tweaked individually as they are added?
I'd say the reason most people don't hear or notice that the guitar tone control can move the resonance is that the capacitor is too large a value, esp. on newer guitars (1990-?), to be that useful going towards "0". The way to really hear it is have some overdrive, hold a note, and slam the tone knob to 0 rapidly, you should hear the boost of level into the drive despite any loss of string harmonics. The attack may not seem boosted.
I would not describe the action of the tone knob that way. As it is first reduced, the resistance comes more into play, absorbing the resonant high frequency peak of the pickup. As the knob approaches 0, then it shifts towards controlling the capacitor and how much of that tone=0 effect happens from it, bringing out a lower resonance frequency. Only resistance (there are several) can absorb resonance and dissipate it as heat, inductors and capacitors can only store energy, or in the case of a both, sometime kind of bounce it back and forth. You can actually short the capacitor and the tone control still works, except you only can get one effect from it.
The original designers of the guitar circuit probably didn't think about it as much as we do now, so some of the "use as intended" is pure speculation. It was just a simple way to put some control right at the hands. It's good to bring out how interesting it is to light though.
As to 500K pots, definitely a good thing for high output style pickups (except maybe one knobbers), and probably alternative pickups/modes in those guitars as well, since usually one is seeking more brightness then.
Thank for your comment, and that's what I am getting at with the 500K pots. There are lots of guitar players out there with single volume 2xHum guitars who are chasing "classic tones" that may have been produced on the middle position with the neck pu turned down. Instead of swapping $$$ pickups endlessly, they might try doing the unthinkable and see what value volume pot works best to get that "classic tone", it may be their pickups are fine, but something 250k or less could be a better fit for their quest.
Larry Carlton was talking about the settings on his Tweed Deluxe amp not the tone on the guitar
I need my tone pot my style is more like Luther Perkins and I also like the dark tone
A guy behind he counter of a store was practically beside himself about the new strings he had just put on his acoustic. As he strummed and beamed with gee all I could do was wonder why the guitar sounded so "sproingy-boingy". Experience had taught me that phenomenon wouldn't last and wasn't desirable, for me - at all. I preferred by acoustics to sound "settled in" and balanced.
Keith unplugged the delay pedal on davids voice
EQ on a Marshall. now I'm thinking
Because I'm running Preamps I'm not using the JCM 900's pre but I'd love to access that EQ section pre power amp.
Anybody got an idea before I ask my tech another stupid question?
Great post topic and conversation with David. There are always issues with videos on UA-cam, it sucks. I would love to ask you Keith why you always have level issues when you do the same thing all of the time? I do understand it has a lot to do with connection via the internet as well as what is directly going on with UA-cam itself. Anyway, time to watch the rest of your post. Thanks for doing what you do brother!
Ma be my software platform which is internet based. Looking to change.
Fuzz I love to use a fuzz turned up with the volume low on the guitar and while watching this I wonder if any one has ever thought of building a tiny Tesla coil and putting it in a pedal?
Tone is in your fingers, just like your knob!
No two people hear the same tone in the same way. Always do the tone that you want.
Great video.........when will these be available?
Which?
The new run of buss
You mentioned after the video
Buh I've been listening to internet forum mojomen talk pixiedust since the early 00s 😩
Red Busses (London edition)?
Any more BUSS pedals coming?
They are still available on Reverb in white and more black are on the way.
Regarding” chasing tone”: It’s fine to a point but more importantly it’s the wrong term and I’m used in a pejorative light. Let’s reframe it.
You can learn a lot about guitars, components, pedals, amplifiers, and even recording by trying to get to the nuts, bolts and details of sound and how it’s created. In aggregate, you can learn about the interconnectedness of these things as a system of sound. These are incredibly important things to learn.
I think the problem comes if or when someone finds a combination or stumbles upon combination, or even doesn’t bother experimenting and decides there’s no more “chasing tone” or “searching for tone” or “experimenting with tone” the learning STOPS.
ALWAYS KEEP LEARNING.
You may have found your “perfect sound”. Today. But what other players are inspirational? What new players are out there that you might find tomorrow? What are their tones?
I find when people say “stop chasing tones”, that seems to come from a place of not only not listening to new music, but also not diving deeply into that new music, and seeing where it takes you. And that’s a shame.
ALWAYS KEEP LEARNING.
Well, then. simpler may well be "better" but only up to a point, at which, only the player can assess - being a participant in the selection process.
You absolutely HAVE to turn up the volume on your end. Headphones on max volume and cannot hear everything
I wish this much talk had some sound demonstrations
I normally wouldn't watch a video with a title like "You're wrong about " from anyone but this one features David Barber so I'll make an exception...
Yes I am right about my tone most modern instruments that are machine made may come close, but they do not beat a lovingly made hand made instrument. My old guitars, my own modified guitars are my favourites
Tone knobs?...... ever try a 7 or 10 band EQ?
We covered that too, truly great tool when it's the right tool.
Tone is volume.
No it's not.... two different words, two different functions
That is much better.
I had to turn my volume up on my phone. It is better now. There is echo on David.
It's spelled "TOAN"
I gave up chasing tone . I just try to be happy with the sound I can create .
A bold statement.
The alternate title was “I’m wrong about tone” but then you might say “who cares”, you know?
Julian Lage (and others) are highly sensitive to control while eliciting signal - even to the point of conveying a reticence to deliver, either early (timing) or loudly (attracting attention). This micro hesitation is palpable to me and off-putting. I'd rather focus on the timing of the phrase and allow that to propel the piece. Arrangement then can take the forefront and "carry" the listeners instead of "dragging" them. Listeners should be unaware of time which is, to me, far more important than compelling them to fall in sync with the performer(s).
No I'm not...
I know how you feel.
Too much gear hawking at the start. Dishes are washed.
Have to make a living and give credit where it’s due.
I have not watched this yet so I have 3 response: No,you are; thank you; I quit chasing tone years ago. I switched to acoustic anyway. Take care
Nice fly-by, bird-drop comment 😅 👏🏼
Whatsoever “wisdom” you were intending to impart to Keith or viewers… I think you could have expressed it in perhaps more-benevolent, less-dismissive and more conversational ways more in-line with the culture and musical community I know Keith has developed over these years.
Be a part of this community. Don’t shit on it.
Could have just shut up and go away, but no…
Otiose comment (learned another new word! 😉)
I thought it was a joke 🤣
Like a pseudo-commentary about the clickbait-esque title.
I guess it also helps that whenever the tone comes across as brash, I hear it in the comic book guy's voice from the simpsons.
You guys probrobly have seen this, but Joe Bonamassa has a great demo video that demonstrates what David Barber's talking about, he gets all kinds of tones from "the woman tone" to "Gilmour" tones and more, just from the tone knobs, (Les Paul guitar)
Larry Carlton was talking about the settings on his Tweed Deluxe amp not the tone on the guitar
Oh, ya think? post the link to where you read that, i'd love to see if it was not easy to understand. "3" always was too low for me, but with taper you never know. And "3" on a tweed Deluxe can mean many things depending on the input and volume settings. Link please?
@@barberelectronics5672 its on his website where he goes through the gear.
@@barberelectronics5672 its on his website where he goes through the gear.
@@johnblackwell2065 Can you post the link, I don't see a section of his website detailing his gear. i am sure it's there somewhere, but I am having trouble finding it and would appreciate a link, thanks!
@@barberelectronics5672 I'll see if I can find the one where he talks about how he likes Rick Wheeler to pass him the guitar with the switch in the middle and the tone and volume fully open.