I think something I’ve started to do to avoid that unwarranted parasociality is to start using the phrase “I love their work” instead of “I love UA-camr/celebrity/musician” because it’s more honest; because that’s what I love, I love the work Khadija puts in and I love the videos she makes, but I don’t know her, and saying “I love her work” reminds me of that respectful distance and also helps put things into perspective for me when a celebrity ends up being a terrible person and keeps myself in check when talking to or about these people.
When I had a restrictive ED, I once overheard my sister crying to my mom that my clothes were too small for her. My body made her insecure about hers. I felt horrible. But I wasn’t in a place to open up and say “you shouldn’t look like this. I shouldn’t even look like this” because I was very much still addicted to my ED. And in a sick and twisted way, it validated that part of my brain. Even an indirect comment about my body was enough to make me spiral more than I already was. I can’t imagine it coming thousands of strangers. So anyone who is “concerned” for their “health” needs to know that talking at people about their bodies does sooo much more harm than good. Like you said, what can actually make a positive difference is having conversations with your loved ones who are susceptible to these things. Look after the people in your life. Celebrities are not in your life.
Capitalism sexualized people (for commercial reasons). Through the fashion industry of 90s capitalism decided that skinny was sexy. Capitalism of those times decided how women (in media) should look like. People should fight the corporate media trying to mold themselves into what the 0.01 % is trying to brain-wash them into. The corporations are selling you a lifestyle. They are telling you that you should buy stuff to better fit in the current 'culture'. Or to even 'be better than' your neighbors. Focus on your own well-being, focus on the ones you love, focus on your community, focus on those less fortunate than you, focus on helping people who were born in or lived lives less fortunate than yours. Fuck those billionaire and millionaire assholes trying to drain another million out of you through media (ads, social media, films, products and their placement, etc...) Form or join unions, protest against inequality, protest against climate change!
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024shaming people for their illness is not it. they recognise it was not healthy, but calling them “nasty” over something that it an extremely difficult illness is gross.
Even if they are losing weight due to EDs (which we don’t know if they are), I think it’s important for people to remember that EDs are illnesses and not something to shame or condemn. If someone is losing weight due to an ED, then they are losing weight because they are sick. It’s that simple. An ED isn’t a moral failing-it’s an illness.
@@alexbennet4195yeah but making jokes about it is just as worse like do yall think making fun of people with an EDs physical appearance is helping in any way at all??
My nuanced opinion, it’s okay to discuss celebrity bodies with your friend etc. (as someone who struggles with EDs it’s a relief to see people acknowledge that Ariana is very thin/ maybe is struggling with something). I just believe she shouldn’t be berated or shamed for having a disease. Basically don’t comment on her posts but discuss with peers in an empathetic/healthy way
@@tansieten875 exactly. Most of us are just making casual conversation with our friends. I don't know anybody personally who's going on to a celebrities social media pages and attacking them for their looks. People that do that are unhinged.
i mean she only has instagram which she restricted comments on. judging from her interviews she's been chronically online during the wicked discourse with burner accounts and that's where she's presumably seeing a lot of the discourse. there and maybe her instagram explore page. either way, nothing directly to her afaik (unless you count DMs). i think she needs to log off and seriously take a break after wicked. her and cynthia. and maybe get a better therapist.
@@fey0217 And still feels like the point flying over your head, by still commenting on her actions. like, i can't see your comment more than concern trolling
As someone who isnt a celebrity whos lost 80lbs a few years ago from illness and arfid, everyone was congratulating me on my weightloss, but it made me feel so like...thanks? So i started saying "thanks all you gotta do is get sick and stop eating." Which made people uncomfortable
This made me laugh!!! You are correct! I had a case of diverticulitis and couldn't keep anything down. Then developed a rip in my Colon from chronic diarrhea ( tmi sorry) I was afraid to eat ANYTHING. Then when COVID hit after healing I legit died for a few minutes. In the ICU and everything... EVERYONE was asking what I did to look so good.. Ummmmm" I legit died😂😂😂😂." I hate people!
@RACHELLEflo nah you're good, my stomach issues are mostly due to autism food issues, and hyper elhers danlos syndrome causing such high pain amounts that I only eat once a day. I totally get the people and diarrhea issues lmfao
ARFID + IBS here, felt this so hard. Lost some weight due to stomach/food problems *and* because of stress and grief *AND* an eating disorder. A lot of people have told me I look like I go to the gym 🫠. Very disheartening to hear when you’re struggling. I’ve told a couple people about it and they’ll still hold their opinion that I look better now!
I’ve had a very similar experience where I lost a lot of weight from illnesses and everyone kept “complimenting” me for it and get uncomfortable when I’d say the same thing. I started saying “I’d rather have the 70 lbs back and be healthy than get complimented for being sick” and that really ticks them off lol. I stopped talking to family over their incessant need to comment on my body then get offended when I’m honest with them. I’ve always known I’m not the only one who’s dealt with this but it still feels nice to hear someone with similar frustrations. Thank you and I hope you’re feeling better now ❤
This is such a beautifully nuanced take. Also appreciate the folks in the comments pointing out that EDs are an illness, not a choice. Great work all around!
I didn't pay attention to my body and my weight until I was about 17. I was small, but my body was always curvier than my classmates, and my friends would complain about their own bodies, but I didn't have strong feelings about my own. Then one of my mom's friends complimented me on my "flat tummy" and that made me aware that was a thing to want. So I started being concerned with keeping that "flat tummy." And then I started working with a group of women who consistently complained about their weights and wanting to lose weight and diet and they compared themselves to me constantly. "Jasmine's so skinny, how do you stay skinny, I want to be skinny like Jasmine." People don't realize that even when you're praising someone for their body, it can still put some sort of pressure or expectation on them to stay that way or get skinnier. It makes them aware of when they gain weight can give them a complex about losing it back or getting fat. My body was always serviceable and looked fine, so I was never super concerned about its size until the people around me made me aware that my body was ideal or enviable and that made me think I needed to work harder to keep my body this way, and it wasn't even for myself.
Thank you for sharing your story. I relate heavily to how commenting on other's bodies (whether it be in praise or judgment), puts some kind of expectation on said person. I've personally always been on the thinner side. Growing up I was picked on and had comments from family members referring to me as "sticks", due to how thin I was. I didn't have an ED either, I just happened to be really boney looking. This in itself made me insecure and it didn’t help when boys would say I was alright looking but wished I was curvier. As time went on, I started having such frequent and life impacting health issues that I got EVEN MORE thin. The comments I would get during that time could have very well resulted in me having an ED, because of how much praising I got for being unhealthily underweight. Thankfully, now and days I'd consider myself more fleshed out and average looking weight wise. However, I'm still thin and on the smaller side. I've experienced hating myself for being too skinny and feeling content with myself for being more average looking. Comments on my body is always so weird to hear. I'd much rather be complimented on factors relating to my fashion sense, intellect, or personal character as a person. You never know what someone is going through behind closed doors, or just how impactful that seemingly small comment on their body will have on their overall well-being.
I'm currently dealing with a bad ED flare up so I appreciate you talking about this. It's so hard trying to find the balance between calling ED culture and fashionable extreme thinness and being kind to people who are struggling. A lot of people are treating this like a moral failing or something to gossip about it - under the guise of "caring" when they don't give AF about people who have EDs
Just commenting this because based on your comment I think you'll like this channel, but of Herbs and Altars are fantastic. Their videos really helped me out when I was starting recovery, they are respectful and kind but also don't sugar coat the realities of having an ED and everything they say is based on their own experience of being ED'd on and off since the late 90s. Cannot recommend them enough!
"You don't like what their body represents in your mind" is at the heart of so much internalized misogyny and it's just painful to see. I've been trying to find the right words for this idea recently - why is the existence of a certain kind of women inherently seen as a judgment of other women? - and that really hits the nail on the head. I appreciate the balance you're able to strike between empathy and real talk while dealing with such a tough topic!
Can we all agreee that commenting on a person's body is just bad taste? Given, there may be circumstances wherein you are invited by a person to discuss their body, yet, even "complimenting" someone's physique is so loaded! Given that people often have limited control on their physical self, it might be better to save your compliments or questions for other aspects of a person. Discuss someone's style or aesthetic or way of expressing themselves. If you want to compliment a stranger, try talking about their shoes. If you want to express concern, be curious about their emotional state. We don't really need to be out here discussing people's bodies.
Commenting on random strangers’ bodies is obviously in bad taste. But we’re not talking about randos, we’re talking about celebrities, many of whom have made their money by inviting attention to their bodies. And it’s not about one person. The bodily transformations of Ariana and Cynthia are just one very visible example of an industry-wide trend towards thinness. Whatever is going on with these two women on a personal level is less relevant to the conversation than how they fit into a broader trend. It’s plain to see that body fascism is back in vogue. So how is it of any benefit to society to pretend that we’re not seeing what we’re seeing?
@@abolishpolice5232 Ariana already said to stop commenting on her body. She's not just a celebrity, she's a PERSON with feelings. It's weird, dehumanizing and invasive asf, especially since you don't know them personally to be trying to diagnose people. Let it tf go already, this is an old topic 😑🥱🙄
I think it's hard to not notice when someone looks unhealthy. And I think that unhealthy can look different for everyone, but there's clear common factors that most humans recognize as signs of this. And anybody who's had an ED recognizes the signs.
@@abolishpolice5232 These are excellent points and I'm wondering now how to engage this conversation in the most generative manner. I'm curious if it would be better to discuss cultural trends abstractly, or is it more useful to discuss specific bodies and those bodies relationship to the public. Presumably, these two women, while situated in positions of power and influence, are not immune to criticisms of their physique. I can hold a lot of empathy for them simply as women who likely do not enjoy the discourse around their bodies. At the same time, given their positionality, are they more beholden to the implications of the meanings that can be made from bodily transformations? I'm not sure I know the answer here.
As someone who has struggled with restriction, i try to avoid commenting UNLESS they try to normalize what theyre doing. The second you refer to a hwalthy weight as "bloated" and say youre healthier than ever doing body checks on the red carpet, i need to comment because i desperately needed someone to tell me as a kid the women i was modeling myself after were malnourished
I think I get the vibe of what they were talking about. There's normal posing, and sometimes there's posing in a way that empathizes how thin you are above the harmony of a pose you'd expect to see.
I work at a summer camp for girls and queer youth and one of our camp-wide rules is that we don’t compliment bodies, we compliment people. It’s forced me to really think about what exactly I’m complimenting about someone. Another comment already said this but I’ll reiterate that body talk generally speaking, positive or negative, is kinda weird and not anyone’s business except for whoever’s body it is
I met someone who went to a camp like this where no one was allowed to comment on anyone's appearance. It sounded really really cool, I hope this is a common thing
@ we’re a part of a nationwide alliance of camps across the United States!! It’s definitely been catching on. The coming Orange regime is gonna make all of what we do a lot more difficult though
That’s awesome. One time my grandpa complemented me losing weight and it made me feel weird cause I thought my weight was something that they didn’t notice / didn’t matter to them and that made me realize it did
I love that you used “yes, and” I think she deals with things privately and I enjoy her art and mind my own business too. I’d hate being so famous that I can’t even struggle in peace
Thank you! People were acting like they cared by “bringing to light” that they are thin, and i’m like you know what’s not going to help someone you might suspect is struggling with an ED, commenting on their body.
yes indeed! if we think about our pets, and animals in the wild, we humans don’t differ in the aspect that we want to hide our weaknesses and pain from others. we might not get eaten by a predator if we reveal our vulnerabilities but it’s still an ingrained trait to avoid showing weakness in front of others. huge celebs like Ariana can’t even go for a night out on the town with friends without getting swarmed by paparazzi and hounded by fans wanting autographs and pictures, i think it’s reasonable to not ALSO demand she share her personal medical health related stuff and/or mental illness struggles with us! give her peace!
Idk….sometimes when people bring up Chadwick in these moments, it’s definitely well intentioned but seems wrongfully placed. Yes we can’t shout “THEY’RE NOT SICK THOUGH” because we genuinely do not know their health standings. But as people who’ve seen Ariana Granda raceswap/bend so much…it’s not particularly harsh to see that this may just be apart of the unhealthy “aesthetic” she’s cosplaying as now.
@afrolens9532 That's a good article, Tee Noir is insightful as ever. I do think all body types should be represented positively in media, but I understand why it can point to problematic attitudes when someone holds certain features in a high regard
12:56 As someone who’s been dealing with digestive issues for almost a year, yes! I have always been on the thicker side (think slim thick) and this battle with chronic digestive issues has caused uncontrollable and unexplained weight loss. To the point where I was almost in keto acidosis in March. I get complimented on my body all the time and it actually hurts my feelings. I even have to stop people from “gassing” my head up because people just assume I “finally” decided to lose weight and “tone.” It’s like the worst backhanded compliment all while not acknowledging that sickness exists that can affect weight. I have even gotten fed up and told people I was actually sick not it wasn’t intentional and they’ll say they wish they had a little of what I have going on. Like ugh people are so insensitive sometimes it makes me wonder if they actually see other human beings and human beings or characters in a play about their life.
I’m so sorry to hear that, hope you get better soon. Yeah people can be so insensitive when someone big losses weight because of a sickness, even though they know that the sickness is bad, the fact that you lost weight is a win to them. I have a friend who lost significant weight when she was sick and her cousin was telling her how jealous she was of her weight loss and when my friend told her it was not intentional, her cousin tried to downplay what my friend was going through to validate her own body dysmorphia. It was disheartening to see because the sickness was really affecting my friend. I had to reinforce how what she said was wrong before her cousin could understand.
I empathize! I'm chronically ill and have digestive issues too, and at multiple points in my life I've experienced unintentional weight loss due to illness, and it's very disheartening to have people compliment drastic weight loss when it's not wanted or healthy weight loss. I have a history of eating disorders and actually overcame anorexia, and fought hard to restore my weight after being clinically underweight, so it was super triggering when even family members who knew the weight loss was unintentional and knew my ED history were telling me how I looked so much better and healthier when I'd lost 30+ pounds due to illness. 😢 Even during that period of unintentional weight loss, I had my mother trying to give me diet/detox shake mixes for weight loss when she knew I didn't want to be losing weight. People are wild.
Yes!!!!! I lost 30lbs due to gi issues and was sticks and bones and was getting multiple compliments. Now that I've gained 80 lbs because Im healthy everyone has something to say about that too. We just can't win.
Same. The lack of the most basest empathy in these cruel statements is appalling. I was underweight after I had my son because that pregnancy and childbirth gave me permanent injuries and messed up my already messed up body and colon especially. I look back at pictures of me then and while I was scarily skinny and my skin was literally gray-ish green … I had multiple women whether they were acquaintances, strangers, or even friends ask me “my secret.” Well, the “secret” was thyroid disease, undiagnosed celiac (which causes endless chaos in your body even when you go gluten free … that required diet causes even more issues), endometriosis that required endless surgeries (I had 4 major surgeries in one year) and treatments, and lifelong IBS. I was in utter misery and I had my actual “best friend” say they wished they had my physical problems. It was cruel and I wish I had ended that toxic friendship right then and there … would’ve saved me a lot of pain, poor treatment, and low self esteem.
Lost a ton of weight to illnesses, part of it from exacerbated mental health issues from an abusive relationship I was in and when someone was telling me how “great” I look and I got fed up and said it was because I had an abuser sucking the soul out of me and they responded “maybe I need to get in an abusive relationship to tone up a bit” I’ve honestly not been that taken aback and offended before like I’d so much rather be fatter and not traumatized like it wasn’t a cute weight loss plan it was genuinely one of the hardest times of my life???
i really appreciate this discourse that’s not pretending to care but be downright hateful about such a triggering topic just because they don’t like a celebrity
it’s really just super tricky. when i was in the throes of it, my stomach would drop when someone would comment on it, but at the same time if the people closest to me hadn’t talked to me in a serious manner about what i was going through, I wouldn’t have made the strides ive made so far. obviously this is something her friends and family should be expressing concern rather than people who don’t know her
i think being a celebrity makes things like this very complicated. ari saying she’s as healthy as she’s ever been, little girls seeing her body and wanting desperately to look like her, need to know that’s not true. or sustainable. it’s obviously awful to comment on someone’s body, but at the same time i feel their social capital shouldn’t be underestimated
right like this is what bothers me the most. if ariana had stayed quiet, i don't think her public display of her ED would bother me so much. it's the fact she denied being sick. she denied any illnesses she might have by saying she's "the healthiest" she's ever been. i feel so hard for ariana bc i'm suffering through an ED and her behaviors remind me of when i was at the lowest of my low. i understand how scared she is to recover as well. and i truly wish her peace. but her saying she's healthy...i find that irresponsible. she should've never responded to those comments in the first place. just like how she's refusing to comment on her affair with ethan.
@@fey0217and you still don’t get it. All of what you’re saying is just projection and assumption. You ASSUME Ashe has an ED because you had one. You ASSUME she had an affair with Ethan despite the fact that no one said she did, no matter how y’all wanna fill in the blanks on his ex wife’s article, and then you think she’s obligated to make statements after the fact to clear it up for “you.” Nevermind the fact she’s always been thin and the period of time she wasn’t was when she was drinking on antidepressants. 🤷🏽♀️ y’all feel too comfortable diagnosing people
@@jaysax7381 idk i think it’s irresponsible to act like her size is one a person could gain naturally. you’re right that she might not have an ED but it is wrong to say that’s a healthy body weight. it isn’t. and pretending that it is does more harm than good
I also just can't summon the energy to care about skinny people being "oppressed" or whatever. Like yes EDs are deadly and women are absolutely unfairly scrutinized for their bodies. It's still pretty disingenuous to try and act like being criticized for being too skinny is on the same level as the institutionalized discrimination fat people die from every day. Fat people with EDs are denied treatment. Girls who look like Cynthia and Ariana get people falling over themselves to make sure they have access to that same treatment.
I feel conflicted about this. As someone who grew up in the “heroin chic” era, I spend my teens years thinking underweight bodies were the epitome of health and beauty. And I only unlearned that when the public discourse shifted. I fully support any celebrity telling people to basically mind their own business, and they aren’t going to address comments about their body. But Arianna’s comments about how this is the healthiest she’s ever been ……that feels so irresponsible 🙃
This is an excellent reminder for me, thank you Khadija. I experienced excessive weightloss during an extremely traumatic period in my life and I got non-stop compliments and people asking "what's your secret?", and now, over a decade later, I've experienced weight gain because of disability and the concern trolling is real. Because of my experience, I make it a point to not discuss other people's bodies, but in my head, I'm feeling resentful of all these celebs who are on the skinny trend, the lying about ozempic, and this new standard of thin after a short-lived body positive movement. I think my mind would be a lot happier if I just decided that anyone else' body is straight up none of my business, and this trend will pass like all of the others.
I struggle with weight fluctuations and it can be so hard when people are asking if you’re ok because your body looks different and you’re doing your best to take care of yourself yet still being effected
Also, to be honest, as a naturally petite person who has struggled with an ED in the past, when I’m under extreme stress (for me usually my degree) one of the biggest physical signs is just drastic weight loss. Even if I’m actively putting effort into eating and nourishing myself intentionally, if I’m not overcompensating I just will drop weight when I’m focused and working really hard and letting my stress levels rise up a bit. Not intentionally, that’s just what happens to MY body, without feeding my ED. Those girls were WORKING. they were working fucking HARD. training vocally and physically and rehearsing and doing so damn much- it might not have been an intentional weight loss. Like sometimes that shit just happens when you’re working hard and stressed tf out ! This is the biggest project of either of their lives rn ? They’re working !!!!!!!!!
The Spongebob Musical slapped harder than it should have. I remember hearing about it in ~2019 and we listened to the playlist on spotify to poke fun at it and were shocked and appalled that it was genuinely good.
I think that rather than attacking the celebrities who've lost a lot of weight, we should be tackling why they, as stars, are so pressured to control their bodies (not that we know that's what's happening, as someone who's been underweight due to physical health reasons, it's super annoying to have people speculating and commenting on your body). They, just like those who look up to them, are under the harsh pressure from society to look a certain way, and it's not their fault. Yes, there's responsibility from them, but there's also our responsibility to respond better and not feed into the obsession.
First thought: when I notice my friends losing weight, I do ask them privately if they are losing weight in a healthy way because I care about them and want to make sure they have what they need (and so many of my friends have had EDs, it’s always a possibility). I don’t know these two actors, none of us do, so it’s on their personal networks to support them if they need it. The fact that I know about this discourse without seeking it out is unsettling to me.
hey girl, amazing video as always !! the word you were looking for at the beginning of the video when talking about press tours is method dressing. that's the term we use in the fashion industry to describe when an actor/actress dresses according to the role they played in a movie for promotion or pr.
This also lightly coincides with Jennette Mcurdy's autobiography and how intense McCurdy described her ED was. Jennette and Ari were costars from one of the most toxic times at Nick, and I dont think that ignoring Ari's or Erivo's bodies are completely out of scope here
Ariana and Cynthia aren't actually friends, but instead they're enablers of their ED which they know they can share that with each other without the other one trying to stop the other.
I under went a stem cell transplant for a childhood cancer as a teenager and people where like oh you look like a model, mind you I was malnourished from chemo and a quivering 90lbs. Then I was put on steriods as part of the treatment and doubled my weight. People felt so comfortable telling me I was fat. They'd be like oh you got fat. I had a mirror I can see. The steriods I was on made me gain weight I couldn't control it. You just don't know what is going on with somebody so keep your comments to yourself even you think it's a compliment.
Thank you. As someone who was unable to control being very underweight for 80% of my life, I really appreciate you pointing out that random people shouldn’t feel the right to publicly question and have answers from you.
This press tour seems to have even reasonable people acting crazy. A therapist who makes content I watch made an offhand comment that people weren’t media literate because Arianna and Cynthia’s friend was “fake” because “that’s not how friends act in real life” when that’s how I act with most of my queer friends
if it's who i think you're talking about, that video was p reasonable for the most part and I agreed with a lot of it, but the part about ariana and Cynthia had me like "hm" like so much of the reaction says that none of these ppl have ever interacted with theater kids and it shows 😭
@@smarterperson16 THEY ARE LITERALLY THEATER KIDS WHO GOT TO BE IN THE BIGGEST MOVIE OF 2024!! They were acting exactly as theater kids would act in this scenario.
The more time goes on the closer I come to the conclusion that all i need my artists to do is make art. i don’t have to be attracted to them, i don’t have to co-sign every decision they make for their lives. If my lived ethics don’t align with the creator i ask myself if i align with the art because THATS THE POINT! Without reading the linked substack, i do believe there is value in talking about these bodies and how they make us feel but that conversation does not need to always include the creator themselves and prying them with inappropriate questions. great video as always, Khadija
I think on a person to person level I agree with you - like Ariana and Cynthia are just people and their weight and health are not my business and are not something to be ridiculed or shamed over. But I think its important to not lump all creatives or artists together. Ariana and Cynthia are extremely famous, wealthy, and are in with Hollywood. I’m an artist as well and though I can relate to their creative process, they are contextually in another world from me. And in their world, press and society at large hold them up as an ideal, as the beauty standard. And so to me, them appearing suddenly so slim is concerning not because on a personal level it is my business or even their fault, but because our system of beauty standards will hold up that body type now even more then it already does. Of course if some child or person struggling with self image in my life starts to feel influenced by that then I would and have said something, but I think its a systemic issue that deserves critique. Like of course its good to recycle in your own home but you have to know global warming isnt your fault or going to be stopped because of it. My point is: yes, targeting and obsessing over these specific actresses bodies is weird. But they are a part of the systemic beauty standard that is crafted by the wealthy in order to make consumers insecure and easy to market products to for them to fit that standard. Beauty standards and obsession over how are bodies look is something manufactured, and though of course as viewers its good for us to be self aware and do what we can to step away from that culture, I just don’t think its fair to not heavily highlight that its a system pushing it not just the viewers doing it out of nowhere. I hope this makes sense, and my intent isn’t to be combative or rude but to voice my perspective and potentially have dialogue. Also a note, I have not read Tee’s article that you mentioned yet so any overlapping points are not intentional.
you completely put my thoughts into words, thank you! lots of people have been highlighting the fault in publicly obsessing over the bodies of people that you don't know, and I completely agree with them on that, but there's always something missing in that conversation.
thank u for clocking people's obsession with other people's business. Even the whole idea that people are so obsessed with finding out who left who for who is wild to me. Like why are so obsessed, especially considering alot of ya'll will talk about 'girl's girl', but only live by that logic when it's a girl you like or are friends with.
Are you asking why people are obsessed rhetorically? Or, like, can you not imagine a world where knowing about something gives you an illusory sense of ownership/control over the thing known about? (Edit: spelling)
i think its because of Ariana's image for a long time. And the lengths her fans went to to JUSTIFY her past wrongs. Now its something so public with so many receipts that the parasocials bystanders and even more parasocial stans feel the need to "get to the bottom of it"
@dorkchops that's the thing tho, in my experience, Ariana's image was leaning either way, like yea she made God is a woman but she also made break up with your girlfriend. And I also just don't like the idea of going after celebrities because of thier fans, especially when fans largely act how they do in response to what they view as attacks
@@hadrianhexe9603 it's absolutely a hypocritical value, but i don't think alerting people to their hypocrisy will make them abandon what is probably a habit by this point.
It’s the fact that when people point out their weight, they say that they are the healthiest they have ever been. So young people may think that that’s what healthy looks like
if it’s healthy for them then it’s healthy for them. its not their responsibility to pander to the insecurities of everyone else just by existing in their bodies.
I think it‘s safe to say that the general public still still has a lot to learn when it comes to eating disorders being actually illnesses and distressing to the person experiencing them AND the skinny =/= healthy discourse. I‘ve been losing weight over the past years not because of anorexia or bulimia but because of AARFID (which is a condition so newly discovered that it doesn‘t even have a translation into my mother tongue at this point). That‘s to say I‘m finding it extremely hard to eat regularly and sometimes to eat at all because of my neurodivergent sensory perception (AuDHD) and depression blocking my appetite. This is to say I‘ve been losing weight because I can‘t get myself to eat (often enough) despite my best efforts and I‘ve gotten numerous comments praising my figure over the past years. I‘m honestly glad to have these discussions though because people get really quiet real quick when they compliment your skinniness and you‘re like „girl that‘s because I‘m ill“
I'm glad the film didn't suffer for the absolute clusterfuck of drama surrounding its production. Ari and Cynthia were obviously paired to limit the discussions of Ari and Ethan. That's why they did the red carpet together as well. But by pairing them together as two already tiny people who have visibly gotten smaller, that discourse became relevant. Whoever was in charge of press for this movie must have gotten an ulcer dealing with it.
I think there's a distinction between publicly commenting on celebrity's bodies and interrogating how body / beauty standards set by celebrities in your own life/space is very different. Celebrities are both people and an image and sometimes we forget that when we critique or speculate about the image we're speculating about someone's personal life.
thank you for calling out the confusion between people just existing with the presence of issues vs. “glorifying” their issues. this is so validating to hear as someone who is trying to build an identity outside of my self-deprecating habits, just because i partake in them doesn’t mean i endorse them. it sounds hypocritical but iykyk , anyways i love ur content
14:06 Me too!! The news about her being "ungrateful" and refusing to say she loves complete strangers because that's just honest and if they don't like it, they don't like her after all, so their opinion never mattered... extremely unbothered and healthy behavior. (You know when unhealthy people are calling you a narcissist, you're doing what's right for you!!❤)
I wish celebrities would log off more. I don’t want or need them to be relatable. They often are participating in their own overexposure by feeding parasocial behavior.
6:33 I just wanna say you’re the most unserious UA-camr I know and that’s why I love you because why am I crying laughing at “baby won’t you go ahead and …..”😂😂😂
I’m not sure why, but this video really resonated with me. I’ve always struggled with my relationship with food, and it’s only recently that I’ve been able to listen to conversations about ED's. The way you express yourself is so thoughtful and genuine; it’s really inspiring. I also think we need to stop putting so much pressure on celebrities and start seeing them as humans. Thanks for making this video :)
Very grateful to the skill I have developed of something raising my eyebrows, and I acknowledge, and then I say "well that's none of my business" and forget about it. I'm not perfect at this, but I know when not to make something a public discussion
This is genuinely one of my favorite commentary videos ever since I watched it. You just talked about so many different things that genuinely related to me where other commentary UA-camrs like lean into the things that will broadly feel relatable to a lot of people. Specifically the Doja Cat situation fit so perfectly in this conversation. I feel like celebrities are going through this change right now to close off certain parts of their lives and not give so much to the consumer. A lot of people talk about Chapelle Roan starting it (though I love her brand) but I really feel like I first saw it with Doja Cat explicitly talking about the relationship she has with her fans. I’m really excited to see where it goes. Anyway, I loved this video! I’m def a new subscriber
THANK YOU, I've felt so uncomfortable about this. I get sooo many comments about my body (I'm not plus sized but I am overweight) and my "health" for not being skinny, and I can't stand the way people act like my body is their business and like they know anything about my health. It makes me so uncomfortable to see people focusing so much on their bodies because, like you said, it's a yes AND... yes, I feel concern for them and have complicated feelings about thinness, AND these are just professionals doing a job, and their body is not their job. If they have a mental or physical illness causing them to be skinny, it feels extremely rude to be commenting on it as if it's a moral failing. I am pretty average sized for a US American but I feel so observed whenever a camera is around, I cannot imagine the pressure they must have on them right now. It's complicated but at the end of the day it does feel ableist, the way people are acting like they shouldn't be allowed to exist in the public eye with bodies that make them uncomfortable.
As a disabled person whose weight has fluctuated at times because of my condition, it is so so unhelpful when people comment on my weight. I promise you, I know how I look, and I am working with my doctors to make sure I am healthy. You making comments about whether my clothes are fitting differently or whether I'd look better with more or less weight does nothing but make me feel self-conscious about something that is already a challenge I am facing in my life. So I think that regardless of people's concern or motivations, if you're not very close to that person, or part of their medical team, then their weight is none of your business and commenting on it will do nothing but make them feel bad.
Wait are people actually thinking theyre glorifying ed??? Okay maybe I'm not a horrible person lmfao. My first thought when this all came up was more along the lines of like. How much stress are they under from the production/were they pressured to lose weight for the roles?
14:30 Damn! Damn, Khadija. That is something I genuinely never considered in that way before! Thank you so much for sharing that, for giving me the chance to have a whole a$$ epiphany and learning moment. That made me sit down and reconsider a bunch of my thoughts about the creatives I follow, I really appreciate that.
16:15 I'm a testament to that. I'm not a "theater kid" by any means (I'm not even from the USA lol), i legitimately dislike musical films in general BUT i am still in awe of the technical achievements of the movie and quality of the actors (specially Cynthia). So yeah, people could venture to care a little more about things that are more interesting than, for example, using bodies for pop star fan wars 😅
It's always so frustrating when I express that I don't like something and say "but I think it's good and well done", because no one understands it. So not only is this very healing, know I SEE U! lol
@beesbrownies 100%! We joke that nuance is gone, especially online), but it's kinda true. People are like, "Wait... you can say you are not a fan of something but also NOT be a crazy hater?" Yap, it is indeed possible lol
11:24 This is hard because a lot of celebrities use their private life to make the art that they sell. Take “Yes, And” for example-it’s a response from Ariana to the public, but it is about her private life and she chose to write, market, and sell it. Why give us the tea about how you feel in a song, make big $$$, and expect us not to talk about it? Just being devil’s advocate fr. I do agree with your point to a degree, but then I think about what I wrote above and I start to feel conflicted.
About your rant - fwiw I don’t consider myself primarily a creative at all, but I’m a major fan of film and art and I love learning about the process and work more than anything. You have comrades out here :)
The body discourse section really hit the nail right on the head w/ stuff that (admittedly) I never even thought about. Also, this is unrelated, but you look really pretty.
you said everything that needed to be said 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 and i love the part where you talk about people needing to remember how words work and knowing that the words they’re using are important. I feel like most of social media now involves people that want to make their problems and insecurities everyone else’s problem by trying to cover it up by being the woke police, like no girl…you’re making things worse.
I only feel the need to distance myself from an artist if they have done immoral acts based off of my perception of morality. If they haven’t then it’s none of my business. The reason I’m comfortable with that it because I don’t assume everyone in the world has to be the kind of person I’d be friends with
This is the first video of yours I've seen and wow, immediate subscribe. You so eloquently out into words the feelings I've had surrounding this press tour, thank you. Everyone has a right to their own relationship with their body no matter who they are, and it's not for any of us to judge. Idk if Cynthia has spoken publicly about this, but I've seen Ariana address it. And she talked about how everyone's version of healthy looks different and that rn, she feels like she's in a very healthy place. And whether that's truly the case or not is none of our business. And like you said, I'm way more interested in the art than any of the relationship drama that surrounds it💓 (Also if you know theater people, like that kind of interpersonal mess that happens during a project is just par for the course lol)
First time I have seen your content but I like how you speak with intentionality. Subscribed 🙂↕️ This helped pick my brain in the right way on how I was engaging with people vs their work. Though I can't personally separate the art from the artist in many cases, I've had trouble coping with this on a more broad level engaging with people and their businesses when I don't align with their morals. Your rant helped me think about that just being their mode of work, and that helped expand my perspective a bit. My dollars will still reflect my values, but I can to an extent compartmentalize my feelings about someone's personal life when they're just punching the clock
I’m new to your channel and I’m so glad I found you! You’re funny, well spoken, and I absolutely love that you promote positivity in a normal, healthy way and not in some extreme way. Keep on doing you! I am here for it! Also: I was totally a Rent girlie too 😘
Tee’s article: open.substack.com/pub/teenoir/p/wicked-reflections-actually-we-should?
I think something I’ve started to do to avoid that unwarranted parasociality is to start using the phrase “I love their work” instead of “I love UA-camr/celebrity/musician” because it’s more honest; because that’s what I love, I love the work Khadija puts in and I love the videos she makes, but I don’t know her, and saying “I love her work” reminds me of that respectful distance and also helps put things into perspective for me when a celebrity ends up being a terrible person and keeps myself in check when talking to or about these people.
That’s a great thought and very intentional.. Well said!
Oh I like this idea! And it seems like it'd be both more precise AND more accurate than saying "I love (blank)"!!
Could not agree more!
Love this!!
Super useful! Thanks
When I had a restrictive ED, I once overheard my sister crying to my mom that my clothes were too small for her. My body made her insecure about hers. I felt horrible. But I wasn’t in a place to open up and say “you shouldn’t look like this. I shouldn’t even look like this” because I was very much still addicted to my ED. And in a sick and twisted way, it validated that part of my brain. Even an indirect comment about my body was enough to make me spiral more than I already was. I can’t imagine it coming thousands of strangers.
So anyone who is “concerned” for their “health” needs to know that talking at people about their bodies does sooo much more harm than good.
Like you said, what can actually make a positive difference is having conversations with your loved ones who are susceptible to these things. Look after the people in your life. Celebrities are not in your life.
Capitalism sexualized people (for commercial reasons). Through the fashion industry of 90s capitalism decided that skinny was sexy. Capitalism of those times decided how women (in media) should look like.
People should fight the corporate media trying to mold themselves into what the 0.01 % is trying to brain-wash them into.
The corporations are selling you a lifestyle. They are telling you that you should buy stuff to better fit in the current 'culture'. Or to even 'be better than' your neighbors.
Focus on your own well-being, focus on the ones you love, focus on your community, focus on those less fortunate than you, focus on helping people who were born in or lived lives less fortunate than yours.
Fuck those billionaire and millionaire assholes trying to drain another million out of you through media (ads, social media, films, products and their placement, etc...)
Form or join unions, protest against inequality, protest against climate change!
🖤🖤🖤
Forgive me, but I cannot feel sorry for you in the beginning. That was very nasty of you. 😬
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024she was sick. EDs are mental illnesses. It was the illness that made her see things that way.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024shaming people for their illness is not it. they recognise it was not healthy, but calling them “nasty” over something that it an extremely difficult illness is gross.
Even if they are losing weight due to EDs (which we don’t know if they are), I think it’s important for people to remember that EDs are illnesses and not something to shame or condemn. If someone is losing weight due to an ED, then they are losing weight because they are sick. It’s that simple. An ED isn’t a moral failing-it’s an illness.
🤦♀️ that is not the point.@@bekindrewind335
@@bekindrewind335 did that make your life any better to say
@@crandlesticks it’s funny because they thought they got em, but addiction is also a sickness soooo… !
And it’s a horrific thing to glamourise?
@@alexbennet4195yeah but making jokes about it is just as worse like do yall think making fun of people with an EDs physical appearance is helping in any way at all??
My nuanced opinion, it’s okay to discuss celebrity bodies with your friend etc. (as someone who struggles with EDs it’s a relief to see people acknowledge that Ariana is very thin/ maybe is struggling with something). I just believe she shouldn’t be berated or shamed for having a disease. Basically don’t comment on her posts but discuss with peers in an empathetic/healthy way
@@tansieten875 exactly. Most of us are just making casual conversation with our friends. I don't know anybody personally who's going on to a celebrities social media pages and attacking them for their looks. People that do that are unhinged.
👏👏👏
Yes, we need to let, particularly young women/girls that being this thin isn’t healthy. I wish that was more talked about when I was a teen.
i mean she only has instagram which she restricted comments on. judging from her interviews she's been chronically online during the wicked discourse with burner accounts and that's where she's presumably seeing a lot of the discourse. there and maybe her instagram explore page. either way, nothing directly to her afaik (unless you count DMs). i think she needs to log off and seriously take a break after wicked. her and cynthia. and maybe get a better therapist.
@@fey0217 And still feels like the point flying over your head, by still commenting on her actions. like, i can't see your comment more than concern trolling
As someone who isnt a celebrity whos lost 80lbs a few years ago from illness and arfid, everyone was congratulating me on my weightloss, but it made me feel so like...thanks? So i started saying "thanks all you gotta do is get sick and stop eating." Which made people uncomfortable
This made me laugh!!! You are correct! I had a case of diverticulitis and couldn't keep anything down. Then developed a rip in my Colon from chronic diarrhea ( tmi sorry) I was afraid to eat ANYTHING. Then when COVID hit after healing I legit died for a few minutes. In the ICU and everything... EVERYONE was asking what I did to look so good.. Ummmmm" I legit died😂😂😂😂." I hate people!
@RACHELLEflo nah you're good, my stomach issues are mostly due to autism food issues, and hyper elhers danlos syndrome causing such high pain amounts that I only eat once a day. I totally get the people and diarrhea issues lmfao
ARFID + IBS here, felt this so hard. Lost some weight due to stomach/food problems *and* because of stress and grief *AND* an eating disorder. A lot of people have told me I look like I go to the gym 🫠. Very disheartening to hear when you’re struggling. I’ve told a couple people about it and they’ll still hold their opinion that I look better now!
same! (arfid + ibs) on top of all that I have thyroid issues and it's either "aw good you've been losing weight!" or "are you getting fat?"
I’ve had a very similar experience where I lost a lot of weight from illnesses and everyone kept “complimenting” me for it and get uncomfortable when I’d say the same thing. I started saying “I’d rather have the 70 lbs back and be healthy than get complimented for being sick” and that really ticks them off lol. I stopped talking to family over their incessant need to comment on my body then get offended when I’m honest with them. I’ve always known I’m not the only one who’s dealt with this but it still feels nice to hear someone with similar frustrations. Thank you and I hope you’re feeling better now ❤
(holds Khadija’s lone forefinger with the long green nail as a way to hold space in queer media)
someone called it the emotional support finger 😭😭
@ Lmao
This is such a beautifully nuanced take. Also appreciate the folks in the comments pointing out that EDs are an illness, not a choice. Great work all around!
I didn't pay attention to my body and my weight until I was about 17. I was small, but my body was always curvier than my classmates, and my friends would complain about their own bodies, but I didn't have strong feelings about my own. Then one of my mom's friends complimented me on my "flat tummy" and that made me aware that was a thing to want. So I started being concerned with keeping that "flat tummy." And then I started working with a group of women who consistently complained about their weights and wanting to lose weight and diet and they compared themselves to me constantly. "Jasmine's so skinny, how do you stay skinny, I want to be skinny like Jasmine." People don't realize that even when you're praising someone for their body, it can still put some sort of pressure or expectation on them to stay that way or get skinnier. It makes them aware of when they gain weight can give them a complex about losing it back or getting fat. My body was always serviceable and looked fine, so I was never super concerned about its size until the people around me made me aware that my body was ideal or enviable and that made me think I needed to work harder to keep my body this way, and it wasn't even for myself.
Thank you for sharing your story. I relate heavily to how commenting on other's bodies (whether it be in praise or judgment), puts some kind of expectation on said person. I've personally always been on the thinner side. Growing up I was picked on and had comments from family members referring to me as "sticks", due to how thin I was. I didn't have an ED either, I just happened to be really boney looking. This in itself made me insecure and it didn’t help when boys would say I was alright looking but wished I was curvier. As time went on, I started having such frequent and life impacting health issues that I got EVEN MORE thin. The comments I would get during that time could have very well resulted in me having an ED, because of how much praising I got for being unhealthily underweight. Thankfully, now and days I'd consider myself more fleshed out and average looking weight wise. However, I'm still thin and on the smaller side. I've experienced hating myself for being too skinny and feeling content with myself for being more average looking. Comments on my body is always so weird to hear. I'd much rather be complimented on factors relating to my fashion sense, intellect, or personal character as a person. You never know what someone is going through behind closed doors, or just how impactful that seemingly small comment on their body will have on their overall well-being.
I'm currently dealing with a bad ED flare up so I appreciate you talking about this. It's so hard trying to find the balance between calling ED culture and fashionable extreme thinness and being kind to people who are struggling. A lot of people are treating this like a moral failing or something to gossip about it - under the guise of "caring" when they don't give AF about people who have EDs
Just commenting this because based on your comment I think you'll like this channel, but of Herbs and Altars are fantastic. Their videos really helped me out when I was starting recovery, they are respectful and kind but also don't sugar coat the realities of having an ED and everything they say is based on their own experience of being ED'd on and off since the late 90s. Cannot recommend them enough!
havent watched the video yet but the bleached brows dark hair and black lip liner are so striking on you wow!!!
Thank youuu 🖤
Yeah, and the two-toned lip is so cool.
"You don't like what their body represents in your mind" is at the heart of so much internalized misogyny and it's just painful to see. I've been trying to find the right words for this idea recently - why is the existence of a certain kind of women inherently seen as a judgment of other women? - and that really hits the nail on the head. I appreciate the balance you're able to strike between empathy and real talk while dealing with such a tough topic!
"You are not that lady's doctor" I had to pause, reflect, and make a drink👏👏👏
Can we all agreee that commenting on a person's body is just bad taste? Given, there may be circumstances wherein you are invited by a person to discuss their body, yet, even "complimenting" someone's physique is so loaded! Given that people often have limited control on their physical self, it might be better to save your compliments or questions for other aspects of a person. Discuss someone's style or aesthetic or way of expressing themselves. If you want to compliment a stranger, try talking about their shoes. If you want to express concern, be curious about their emotional state. We don't really need to be out here discussing people's bodies.
Especially if it's someone you don't know personally
Commenting on random strangers’ bodies is obviously in bad taste. But we’re not talking about randos, we’re talking about celebrities, many of whom have made their money by inviting attention to their bodies. And it’s not about one person. The bodily transformations of Ariana and Cynthia are just one very visible example of an industry-wide trend towards thinness. Whatever is going on with these two women on a personal level is less relevant to the conversation than how they fit into a broader trend. It’s plain to see that body fascism is back in vogue. So how is it of any benefit to society to pretend that we’re not seeing what we’re seeing?
@@abolishpolice5232 Ariana already said to stop commenting on her body. She's not just a celebrity, she's a PERSON with feelings. It's weird, dehumanizing and invasive asf, especially since you don't know them personally to be trying to diagnose people. Let it tf go already, this is an old topic 😑🥱🙄
I think it's hard to not notice when someone looks unhealthy. And I think that unhealthy can look different for everyone, but there's clear common factors that most humans recognize as signs of this. And anybody who's had an ED recognizes the signs.
@@abolishpolice5232 These are excellent points and I'm wondering now how to engage this conversation in the most generative manner. I'm curious if it would be better to discuss cultural trends abstractly, or is it more useful to discuss specific bodies and those bodies relationship to the public. Presumably, these two women, while situated in positions of power and influence, are not immune to criticisms of their physique. I can hold a lot of empathy for them simply as women who likely do not enjoy the discourse around their bodies. At the same time, given their positionality, are they more beholden to the implications of the meanings that can be made from bodily transformations? I'm not sure I know the answer here.
THANK YOU! it’s been driving me crazy how much people have been talking about their bodies. i wish people would just leave women alone 😔
As someone who has struggled with restriction, i try to avoid commenting UNLESS they try to normalize what theyre doing. The second you refer to a hwalthy weight as "bloated" and say youre healthier than ever doing body checks on the red carpet, i need to comment because i desperately needed someone to tell me as a kid the women i was modeling myself after were malnourished
Great comment. I appreciate “struggled with restriction”. I’m going to use that. And seconded, I needed someone to give me perspective.
how could you “body check” on the carpet when you’re literally supposed to be posing. sounds like ur projecting bud
😐@@drugcalisrobmanzar5597
How can you body check in a space where you’re specifically asked to pose?
I think I get the vibe of what they were talking about. There's normal posing, and sometimes there's posing in a way that empathizes how thin you are above the harmony of a pose you'd expect to see.
I work at a summer camp for girls and queer youth and one of our camp-wide rules is that we don’t compliment bodies, we compliment people. It’s forced me to really think about what exactly I’m complimenting about someone. Another comment already said this but I’ll reiterate that body talk generally speaking, positive or negative, is kinda weird and not anyone’s business except for whoever’s body it is
I met someone who went to a camp like this where no one was allowed to comment on anyone's appearance. It sounded really really cool, I hope this is a common thing
@ we’re a part of a nationwide alliance of camps across the United States!! It’s definitely been catching on. The coming Orange regime is gonna make all of what we do a lot more difficult though
That’s awesome. One time my grandpa complemented me losing weight and it made me feel weird cause I thought my weight was something that they didn’t notice / didn’t matter to them and that made me realize it did
“For me and BAWK.” made me cackle thank you for speaking directly to me Khadija 😂
I love that you used “yes, and”
I think she deals with things privately and I enjoy her art and mind my own business too. I’d hate being so famous that I can’t even struggle in peace
Thank you! People were acting like they cared by “bringing to light” that they are thin, and i’m like you know what’s not going to help someone you might suspect is struggling with an ED, commenting on their body.
11:11 FACTS!!!! 💯💯💯 People in the public eye are still humans! We don’t get an all access pass to their personal lives just because they entertain us.
yes indeed! if we think about our pets, and animals in the wild, we humans don’t differ in the aspect that we want to hide our weaknesses and pain from others. we might not get eaten by a predator if we reveal our vulnerabilities but it’s still an ingrained trait to avoid showing weakness in front of others. huge celebs like Ariana can’t even go for a night out on the town with friends without getting swarmed by paparazzi and hounded by fans wanting autographs and pictures, i think it’s reasonable to not ALSO demand she share her personal medical health related stuff and/or mental illness struggles with us! give her peace!
I wish people learned this lesson from Chadwick Boseman. I still remember how people made fun of him for looking skinny on a livestream
Tee Noir has an article about that and how his and Ariana's situation isn't quite the same
Its pinned in the comments
Idk….sometimes when people bring up Chadwick in these moments, it’s definitely well intentioned but seems wrongfully placed. Yes we can’t shout “THEY’RE NOT SICK THOUGH” because we genuinely do not know their health standings. But as people who’ve seen Ariana Granda raceswap/bend so much…it’s not particularly harsh to see that this may just be apart of the unhealthy “aesthetic” she’s cosplaying as now.
@afrolens9532 That's a good article, Tee Noir is insightful as ever. I do think all body types should be represented positively in media, but I understand why it can point to problematic attitudes when someone holds certain features in a high regard
@StrandCanvasStudios Valid concern. I have no beef with people calling that out
Ariana literally has a history of showing off her body and eating disorder on social media. Not the same. Do not compare.
12:56 As someone who’s been dealing with digestive issues for almost a year, yes! I have always been on the thicker side (think slim thick) and this battle with chronic digestive issues has caused uncontrollable and unexplained weight loss. To the point where I was almost in keto acidosis in March. I get complimented on my body all the time and it actually hurts my feelings. I even have to stop people from “gassing” my head up because people just assume I “finally” decided to lose weight and “tone.” It’s like the worst backhanded compliment all while not acknowledging that sickness exists that can affect weight. I have even gotten fed up and told people I was actually sick not it wasn’t intentional and they’ll say they wish they had a little of what I have going on. Like ugh people are so insensitive sometimes it makes me wonder if they actually see other human beings and human beings or characters in a play about their life.
I’m so sorry to hear that, hope you get better soon.
Yeah people can be so insensitive when someone big losses weight because of a sickness, even though they know that the sickness is bad, the fact that you lost weight is a win to them.
I have a friend who lost significant weight when she was sick and her cousin was telling her how jealous she was of her weight loss and when my friend told her it was not intentional, her cousin tried to downplay what my friend was going through to validate her own body dysmorphia. It was disheartening to see because the sickness was really affecting my friend. I had to reinforce how what she said was wrong before her cousin could understand.
I empathize! I'm chronically ill and have digestive issues too, and at multiple points in my life I've experienced unintentional weight loss due to illness, and it's very disheartening to have people compliment drastic weight loss when it's not wanted or healthy weight loss. I have a history of eating disorders and actually overcame anorexia, and fought hard to restore my weight after being clinically underweight, so it was super triggering when even family members who knew the weight loss was unintentional and knew my ED history were telling me how I looked so much better and healthier when I'd lost 30+ pounds due to illness. 😢 Even during that period of unintentional weight loss, I had my mother trying to give me diet/detox shake mixes for weight loss when she knew I didn't want to be losing weight. People are wild.
Yes!!!!! I lost 30lbs due to gi issues and was sticks and bones and was getting multiple compliments. Now that I've gained 80 lbs because Im healthy everyone has something to say about that too. We just can't win.
Same. The lack of the most basest empathy in these cruel statements is appalling. I was underweight after I had my son because that pregnancy and childbirth gave me permanent injuries and messed up my already messed up body and colon especially. I look back at pictures of me then and while I was scarily skinny and my skin was literally gray-ish green … I had multiple women whether they were acquaintances, strangers, or even friends ask me “my secret.” Well, the “secret” was thyroid disease, undiagnosed celiac (which causes endless chaos in your body even when you go gluten free … that required diet causes even more issues), endometriosis that required endless surgeries (I had 4 major surgeries in one year) and treatments, and lifelong IBS. I was in utter misery and I had my actual “best friend” say they wished they had my physical problems. It was cruel and I wish I had ended that toxic friendship right then and
there … would’ve saved me a lot of pain, poor treatment, and low self esteem.
Lost a ton of weight to illnesses, part of it from exacerbated mental health issues from an abusive relationship I was in and when someone was telling me how “great” I look and I got fed up and said it was because I had an abuser sucking the soul out of me and they responded “maybe I need to get in an abusive relationship to tone up a bit” I’ve honestly not been that taken aback and offended before like I’d so much rather be fatter and not traumatized like it wasn’t a cute weight loss plan it was genuinely one of the hardest times of my life???
i really appreciate this discourse that’s not pretending to care but be downright hateful about such a triggering topic just because they don’t like a celebrity
it’s really just super tricky. when i was in the throes of it, my stomach would drop when someone would comment on it, but at the same time if the people closest to me hadn’t talked to me in a serious manner about what i was going through, I wouldn’t have made the strides ive made so far. obviously this is something her friends and family should be expressing concern rather than people who don’t know her
i think being a celebrity makes things like this very complicated. ari saying she’s as healthy as she’s ever been, little girls seeing her body and wanting desperately to look like her, need to know that’s not true. or sustainable. it’s obviously awful to comment on someone’s body, but at the same time i feel their social capital shouldn’t be underestimated
right like this is what bothers me the most. if ariana had stayed quiet, i don't think her public display of her ED would bother me so much. it's the fact she denied being sick. she denied any illnesses she might have by saying she's "the healthiest" she's ever been. i feel so hard for ariana bc i'm suffering through an ED and her behaviors remind me of when i was at the lowest of my low. i understand how scared she is to recover as well. and i truly wish her peace. but her saying she's healthy...i find that irresponsible. she should've never responded to those comments in the first place. just like how she's refusing to comment on her affair with ethan.
Exactly!
@@fey0217and you still don’t get it. All of what you’re saying is just projection and assumption. You ASSUME Ashe has an ED because you had one. You ASSUME she had an affair with Ethan despite the fact that no one said she did, no matter how y’all wanna fill in the blanks on his ex wife’s article, and then you think she’s obligated to make statements after the fact to clear it up for “you.” Nevermind the fact she’s always been thin and the period of time she wasn’t was when she was drinking on antidepressants. 🤷🏽♀️ y’all feel too comfortable diagnosing people
@@jaysax7381 idk i think it’s irresponsible to act like her size is one a person could gain naturally. you’re right that she might not have an ED but it is wrong to say that’s a healthy body weight. it isn’t. and pretending that it is does more harm than good
I also just can't summon the energy to care about skinny people being "oppressed" or whatever. Like yes EDs are deadly and women are absolutely unfairly scrutinized for their bodies. It's still pretty disingenuous to try and act like being criticized for being too skinny is on the same level as the institutionalized discrimination fat people die from every day. Fat people with EDs are denied treatment. Girls who look like Cynthia and Ariana get people falling over themselves to make sure they have access to that same treatment.
I feel conflicted about this. As someone who grew up in the “heroin chic” era, I spend my teens years thinking underweight bodies were the epitome of health and beauty. And I only unlearned that when the public discourse shifted.
I fully support any celebrity telling people to basically mind their own business, and they aren’t going to address comments about their body. But Arianna’s comments about how this is the healthiest she’s ever been ……that feels so irresponsible 🙃
0:21 swear i keep forgetting you a whole opera singer
Rise fan spotted
Wait deadass? I gotta watch more Khadijah 😭
"OH GOD BRITA'S IN THIS??!" YESS REFERENCE CAUGHT !!!😂😂❤❤
😂😂😂😂
This is an excellent reminder for me, thank you Khadija. I experienced excessive weightloss during an extremely traumatic period in my life and I got non-stop compliments and people asking "what's your secret?", and now, over a decade later, I've experienced weight gain because of disability and the concern trolling is real. Because of my experience, I make it a point to not discuss other people's bodies, but in my head, I'm feeling resentful of all these celebs who are on the skinny trend, the lying about ozempic, and this new standard of thin after a short-lived body positive movement. I think my mind would be a lot happier if I just decided that anyone else' body is straight up none of my business, and this trend will pass like all of the others.
I struggle with weight fluctuations and it can be so hard when people are asking if you’re ok because your body looks different and you’re doing your best to take care of yourself yet still being effected
Also, to be honest, as a naturally petite person who has struggled with an ED in the past, when I’m under extreme stress (for me usually my degree) one of the biggest physical signs is just drastic weight loss. Even if I’m actively putting effort into eating and nourishing myself intentionally, if I’m not overcompensating I just will drop weight when I’m focused and working really hard and letting my stress levels rise up a bit. Not intentionally, that’s just what happens to MY body, without feeding my ED.
Those girls were WORKING. they were working fucking HARD. training vocally and physically and rehearsing and doing so damn much- it might not have been an intentional weight loss. Like sometimes that shit just happens when you’re working hard and stressed tf out ! This is the biggest project of either of their lives rn ? They’re working !!!!!!!!!
The Spongebob Musical slapped harder than it should have. I remember hearing about it in ~2019 and we listened to the playlist on spotify to poke fun at it and were shocked and appalled that it was genuinely good.
Exact same thing with shrek
I think that rather than attacking the celebrities who've lost a lot of weight, we should be tackling why they, as stars, are so pressured to control their bodies (not that we know that's what's happening, as someone who's been underweight due to physical health reasons, it's super annoying to have people speculating and commenting on your body). They, just like those who look up to them, are under the harsh pressure from society to look a certain way, and it's not their fault. Yes, there's responsibility from them, but there's also our responsibility to respond better and not feed into the obsession.
First thought: when I notice my friends losing weight, I do ask them privately if they are losing weight in a healthy way because I care about them and want to make sure they have what they need (and so many of my friends have had EDs, it’s always a possibility). I don’t know these two actors, none of us do, so it’s on their personal networks to support them if they need it. The fact that I know about this discourse without seeking it out is unsettling to me.
hey girl, amazing video as always !! the word you were looking for at the beginning of the video when talking about press tours is method dressing. that's the term we use in the fashion industry to describe when an actor/actress dresses according to the role they played in a movie for promotion or pr.
This also lightly coincides with Jennette Mcurdy's autobiography and how intense McCurdy described her ED was. Jennette and Ari were costars from one of the most toxic times at Nick, and I dont think that ignoring Ari's or Erivo's bodies are completely out of scope here
Ariana and Cynthia aren't actually friends, but instead they're enablers of their ED which they know they can share that with each other without the other one trying to stop the other.
I under went a stem cell transplant for a childhood cancer as a teenager and people where like oh you look like a model, mind you I was malnourished from chemo and a quivering 90lbs. Then I was put on steriods as part of the treatment and doubled my weight. People felt so comfortable telling me I was fat. They'd be like oh you got fat. I had a mirror I can see. The steriods I was on made me gain weight I couldn't control it. You just don't know what is going on with somebody so keep your comments to yourself even you think it's a compliment.
The entire middle section covering the discourse is straight f a c t s, this was so refreshing to watch
Thank you. As someone who was unable to control being very underweight for 80% of my life, I really appreciate you pointing out that random people shouldn’t feel the right to publicly question and have answers from you.
This press tour seems to have even reasonable people acting crazy. A therapist who makes content I watch made an offhand comment that people weren’t media literate because Arianna and Cynthia’s friend was “fake” because “that’s not how friends act in real life” when that’s how I act with most of my queer friends
if it's who i think you're talking about, that video was p reasonable for the most part and I agreed with a lot of it, but the part about ariana and Cynthia had me like "hm" like so much of the reaction says that none of these ppl have ever interacted with theater kids and it shows 😭
Are we discussing the one with curly black hair? Bc I was just watching that video and I was like?? I wish I had friends like that
@@smarterperson16 THEY ARE LITERALLY THEATER KIDS WHO GOT TO BE IN THE BIGGEST MOVIE OF 2024!! They were acting exactly as theater kids would act in this scenario.
@@Xenite too many people acting as if they wouldn't be the most insufferable ppl alive if they were in their position I'm tired djdjjf
don't know what therapist's video this is, but wouldn't surprised if this is a mischaracterization of their video.
The more time goes on the closer I come to the conclusion that all i need my artists to do is make art. i don’t have to be attracted to them, i don’t have to co-sign every decision they make for their lives. If my lived ethics don’t align with the creator i ask myself if i align with the art because THATS THE POINT!
Without reading the linked substack, i do believe there is value in talking about these bodies and how they make us feel but that conversation does not need to always include the creator themselves and prying them with inappropriate questions.
great video as always, Khadija
it actually has a name: method dressing. the barbie press tour is another great example of this
I think on a person to person level I agree with you - like Ariana and Cynthia are just people and their weight and health are not my business and are not something to be ridiculed or shamed over. But I think its important to not lump all creatives or artists together. Ariana and Cynthia are extremely famous, wealthy, and are in with Hollywood. I’m an artist as well and though I can relate to their creative process, they are contextually in another world from me. And in their world, press and society at large hold them up as an ideal, as the beauty standard. And so to me, them appearing suddenly so slim is concerning not because on a personal level it is my business or even their fault, but because our system of beauty standards will hold up that body type now even more then it already does. Of course if some child or person struggling with self image in my life starts to feel influenced by that then I would and have said something, but I think its a systemic issue that deserves critique. Like of course its good to recycle in your own home but you have to know global warming isnt your fault or going to be stopped because of it. My point is: yes, targeting and obsessing over these specific actresses bodies is weird. But they are a part of the systemic beauty standard that is crafted by the wealthy in order to make consumers insecure and easy to market products to for them to fit that standard. Beauty standards and obsession over how are bodies look is something manufactured, and though of course as viewers its good for us to be self aware and do what we can to step away from that culture, I just don’t think its fair to not heavily highlight that its a system pushing it not just the viewers doing it out of nowhere. I hope this makes sense, and my intent isn’t to be combative or rude but to voice my perspective and potentially have dialogue. Also a note, I have not read Tee’s article that you mentioned yet so any overlapping points are not intentional.
you completely put my thoughts into words, thank you! lots of people have been highlighting the fault in publicly obsessing over the bodies of people that you don't know, and I completely agree with them on that, but there's always something missing in that conversation.
recovering from an 8+ years long ED. thank you for this video.
i think this is a very much needed conversation
thank u for clocking people's obsession with other people's business. Even the whole idea that people are so obsessed with finding out who left who for who is wild to me. Like why are so obsessed, especially considering alot of ya'll will talk about 'girl's girl', but only live by that logic when it's a girl you like or are friends with.
Are you asking why people are obsessed rhetorically?
Or, like, can you not imagine a world where knowing about something gives you an illusory sense of ownership/control over the thing known about?
(Edit: spelling)
i think its because of Ariana's image for a long time. And the lengths her fans went to to JUSTIFY her past wrongs. Now its something so public with so many receipts that the parasocials bystanders and even more parasocial stans feel the need to "get to the bottom of it"
@zacharybosley1935 Rhetorically, I understand the reasons behind it, I just find very very, and sometimes hypocritical.
@dorkchops that's the thing tho, in my experience, Ariana's image was leaning either way, like yea she made God is a woman but she also made break up with your girlfriend. And I also just don't like the idea of going after celebrities because of thier fans, especially when fans largely act how they do in response to what they view as attacks
@@hadrianhexe9603 it's absolutely a hypocritical value, but i don't think alerting people to their hypocrisy will make them abandon what is probably a habit by this point.
It’s the fact that when people point out their weight, they say that they are the healthiest they have ever been. So young people may think that that’s what healthy looks like
if it’s healthy for them then it’s healthy for them. its not their responsibility to pander to the insecurities of everyone else just by existing in their bodies.
I think it‘s safe to say that the general public still still has a lot to learn when it comes to eating disorders being actually illnesses and distressing to the person experiencing them AND the skinny =/= healthy discourse.
I‘ve been losing weight over the past years not because of anorexia or bulimia but because of AARFID (which is a condition so newly discovered that it doesn‘t even have a translation into my mother tongue at this point). That‘s to say I‘m finding it extremely hard to eat regularly and sometimes to eat at all because of my neurodivergent sensory perception (AuDHD) and depression blocking my appetite.
This is to say I‘ve been losing weight because I can‘t get myself to eat (often enough) despite my best efforts and I‘ve gotten numerous comments praising my figure over the past years. I‘m honestly glad to have these discussions though because people get really quiet real quick when they compliment your skinniness and you‘re like „girl that‘s because I‘m ill“
I'm glad the film didn't suffer for the absolute clusterfuck of drama surrounding its production.
Ari and Cynthia were obviously paired to limit the discussions of Ari and Ethan. That's why they did the red carpet together as well. But by pairing them together as two already tiny people who have visibly gotten smaller, that discourse became relevant.
Whoever was in charge of press for this movie must have gotten an ulcer dealing with it.
i think ari and cynthia were paired bc they are the leads of the movie
@@marielozoria her common sense left the chat
??? Why would Ariana be paired with Ethan ?
Its WILD that Cynthia said that Black people didnt have culture yet…look at her roles…
The note you hit in the beginning that Cynthia sang lives rent free in my head ever since the trailer for the movie came out 😂
I think there's a distinction between publicly commenting on celebrity's bodies and interrogating how body / beauty standards set by celebrities in your own life/space is very different. Celebrities are both people and an image and sometimes we forget that when we critique or speculate about the image we're speculating about someone's personal life.
thank you for calling out the confusion between people just existing with the presence of issues vs. “glorifying” their issues. this is so validating to hear as someone who is trying to build an identity outside of my self-deprecating habits, just because i partake in them doesn’t mean i endorse them. it sounds hypocritical but iykyk , anyways i love ur content
14:06 Me too!! The news about her being "ungrateful" and refusing to say she loves complete strangers because that's just honest and if they don't like it, they don't like her after all, so their opinion never mattered... extremely unbothered and healthy behavior. (You know when unhealthy people are calling you a narcissist, you're doing what's right for you!!❤)
Exactly! This is the exact same thing with Chappell and people treated her like she was spoiled and ungrateful too!
I’m also a performing artist and people have no idea how often we are up there on stage smiling while our lives are falling apart
You better SANG Khadija!!
i love Khadija reminds me that they went to school for opera and have and amazing voice on point analysis
Wicked Press Tour: *absolutely wild for no reason*
Sonic 3 Press Tour: Hold my chilidogs...
great video! i fear the increased obsession with celebrity personal life is deeply connected to the economy and capitalism
I mean, to be a celebrity is to be a commodified existence. You're selling a lot more than your performance to the market once celebrity status hits
I wish celebrities would log off more. I don’t want or need them to be relatable. They often are participating in their own overexposure by feeding parasocial behavior.
GIRL YOUR SENCE OF HUMOR IS IMMACULATE I CANT
"oh god, Britta's in this?"
Honestly, instantly subscribed. My first video of yours but I can't wait for more!
6 seasons and a movie!!!
6:33 I just wanna say you’re the most unserious UA-camr I know and that’s why I love you because why am I crying laughing at “baby won’t you go ahead and …..”😂😂😂
🌚
I really respect the work you do. It's both extremely insightful and lighthearted, thank you for your content.
I'm not commenting on bodies, but how your face looking so perfect? That lip with the brows!? With the curl center part? Moodboard dreaminess.
youre so right. it seems so obvious, but most of us havent thought that. just by existing youre not promoting anything. so true
I’m not sure why, but this video really resonated with me. I’ve always struggled with my relationship with food, and it’s only recently that I’ve been able to listen to conversations about ED's. The way you express yourself is so thoughtful and genuine; it’s really inspiring. I also think we need to stop putting so much pressure on celebrities and start seeing them as humans. Thanks for making this video :)
Very grateful to the skill I have developed of something raising my eyebrows, and I acknowledge, and then I say "well that's none of my business" and forget about it. I'm not perfect at this, but I know when not to make something a public discussion
Am only halfway through this video and I need you to know that you look AMAZING in this. The makeup the eyebrows the hair *chefs kiss* ♥️
GRL YOU DONT KNOW I’ve been looking for a youtuber that matches my vibe and GRL I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS PLAYING NEVER STOP DOING THEMMMMMM!!!
This is genuinely one of my favorite commentary videos ever since I watched it. You just talked about so many different things that genuinely related to me where other commentary UA-camrs like lean into the things that will broadly feel relatable to a lot of people. Specifically the Doja Cat situation fit so perfectly in this conversation. I feel like celebrities are going through this change right now to close off certain parts of their lives and not give so much to the consumer. A lot of people talk about Chapelle Roan starting it (though I love her brand) but I really feel like I first saw it with Doja Cat explicitly talking about the relationship she has with her fans. I’m really excited to see where it goes.
Anyway, I loved this video! I’m def a new subscriber
THANK YOU, I've felt so uncomfortable about this. I get sooo many comments about my body (I'm not plus sized but I am overweight) and my "health" for not being skinny, and I can't stand the way people act like my body is their business and like they know anything about my health. It makes me so uncomfortable to see people focusing so much on their bodies because, like you said, it's a yes AND... yes, I feel concern for them and have complicated feelings about thinness, AND these are just professionals doing a job, and their body is not their job. If they have a mental or physical illness causing them to be skinny, it feels extremely rude to be commenting on it as if it's a moral failing. I am pretty average sized for a US American but I feel so observed whenever a camera is around, I cannot imagine the pressure they must have on them right now. It's complicated but at the end of the day it does feel ableist, the way people are acting like they shouldn't be allowed to exist in the public eye with bodies that make them uncomfortable.
Thank you for speaking out about the issues with the body discourse. I agree with everything you said. 💯
“She’s not new to this, she’s true to this” ❤
I think people forget Ariana's career started on Broadway in the musical 13! She and Cynthia were cast so correctly 😁
Happy New Year. You're likely one of the only/few commentry channels that seems non-click baity, well balanced and though-provoking.
"oh god britta's in this!" you've got a fan for life now
As a disabled person whose weight has fluctuated at times because of my condition, it is so so unhelpful when people comment on my weight. I promise you, I know how I look, and I am working with my doctors to make sure I am healthy. You making comments about whether my clothes are fitting differently or whether I'd look better with more or less weight does nothing but make me feel self-conscious about something that is already a challenge I am facing in my life. So I think that regardless of people's concern or motivations, if you're not very close to that person, or part of their medical team, then their weight is none of your business and commenting on it will do nothing but make them feel bad.
Only 45 seconds in but I would just like to say DAMN THEM EYELASHES WORKED, looking ✨✨
Wait are people actually thinking theyre glorifying ed??? Okay maybe I'm not a horrible person lmfao. My first thought when this all came up was more along the lines of like. How much stress are they under from the production/were they pressured to lose weight for the roles?
hell yeah, just found my new favourite commentary channel!!!
14:30 Damn! Damn, Khadija. That is something I genuinely never considered in that way before! Thank you so much for sharing that, for giving me the chance to have a whole a$$ epiphany and learning moment. That made me sit down and reconsider a bunch of my thoughts about the creatives I follow, I really appreciate that.
Side note , love the profile pic. Best Mercutio ever ‼️
Did I get a Community reference within the first five minutes? Subscribed. Already subscribed to your other channel. lol
I didn’t even realize this was on a second channel! Instantly subscribed
I 100% support it always being you doing the sound effects. ❤
16:15 I'm a testament to that. I'm not a "theater kid" by any means (I'm not even from the USA lol), i legitimately dislike musical films in general BUT i am still in awe of the technical achievements of the movie and quality of the actors (specially Cynthia). So yeah, people could venture to care a little more about things that are more interesting than, for example, using bodies for pop star fan wars 😅
It's always so frustrating when I express that I don't like something and say "but I think it's good and well done", because no one understands it. So not only is this very healing, know I SEE U! lol
@beesbrownies 100%! We joke that nuance is gone, especially online), but it's kinda true. People are like, "Wait... you can say you are not a fan of something but also NOT be a crazy hater?" Yap, it is indeed possible lol
@grmgt exactly. 🤝
11:24 This is hard because a lot of celebrities use their private life to make the art that they sell. Take “Yes, And” for example-it’s a response from Ariana to the public, but it is about her private life and she chose to write, market, and sell it. Why give us the tea about how you feel in a song, make big $$$, and expect us not to talk about it?
Just being devil’s advocate fr. I do agree with your point to a degree, but then I think about what I wrote above and I start to feel conflicted.
I love you eyebrows & commentary ❤❤❤❤❤
The whole “Knick Knack paddy wack give a dog a bone” bit was so fucking good 😂
About your rant - fwiw I don’t consider myself primarily a creative at all, but I’m a major fan of film and art and I love learning about the process and work more than anything. You have comrades out here :)
we all needed these thoughts put into these words - well said!
Omg your hair and makeup🎀💕>>>
The body discourse section really hit the nail right on the head w/ stuff that (admittedly) I never even thought about.
Also, this is unrelated, but you look really pretty.
you said everything that needed to be said 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 and i love the part where you talk about people needing to remember how words work and knowing that the words they’re using are important. I feel like most of social media now involves people that want to make their problems and insecurities everyone else’s problem by trying to cover it up by being the woke police, like no girl…you’re making things worse.
Looooooooove this! So well said!!!!
Oh and the stuff about creator and creation is so spot on to my mind thanks!
I only feel the need to distance myself from an artist if they have done immoral acts based off of my perception of morality. If they haven’t then it’s none of my business. The reason I’m comfortable with that it because I don’t assume everyone in the world has to be the kind of person I’d be friends with
This is the first video of yours I've seen and wow, immediate subscribe. You so eloquently out into words the feelings I've had surrounding this press tour, thank you. Everyone has a right to their own relationship with their body no matter who they are, and it's not for any of us to judge. Idk if Cynthia has spoken publicly about this, but I've seen Ariana address it. And she talked about how everyone's version of healthy looks different and that rn, she feels like she's in a very healthy place. And whether that's truly the case or not is none of our business. And like you said, I'm way more interested in the art than any of the relationship drama that surrounds it💓
(Also if you know theater people, like that kind of interpersonal mess that happens during a project is just par for the course lol)
First time I have seen your content but I like how you speak with intentionality. Subscribed 🙂↕️
This helped pick my brain in the right way on how I was engaging with people vs their work. Though I can't personally separate the art from the artist in many cases, I've had trouble coping with this on a more broad level engaging with people and their businesses when I don't align with their morals. Your rant helped me think about that just being their mode of work, and that helped expand my perspective a bit. My dollars will still reflect my values, but I can to an extent compartmentalize my feelings about someone's personal life when they're just punching the clock
your channel's new name fits so, so well with what you do. love your work!
I’m new to your channel and I’m so glad I found you! You’re funny, well spoken, and I absolutely love that you promote positivity in a normal, healthy way and not in some extreme way. Keep on doing you! I am here for it! Also: I was totally a Rent girlie too 😘
Damn, the makeup and hair go CRAZY in this video: you look phenomenal!