I just want to correct you about why the carbon steel knife rusts more easily: Carbon steel contains up to 2,4% carbon iirc, but the carbon content is not to blame for the oxidation. What gets oxidized is the Iron, not the Carbon. Stainless steel can have as much as 6% off other metals like Chromium mixed in (again, iirc). These metals are more resistent to oxidation and are they are responsible for making stainless steel not rust.
Thank you. Rust is iron oxide. It's the absence of corrosion resistant elements in the alloy combined with water and the other solvents and abrasives in detergent that allows more bare iron to react and corrode.
Do we need to get into a broader discussion of the knife's continued use in the production of this media and/or the fair market value of a damaged high end chef's knife?
Used to work as a dishwasher. I would shove the cheap knives in a commercial dishwasher that could strip stains off in less than a minute and fling anything lighter than a couple ounces around like a frizbee if you weren't careful. Those knives went through that thing at least 4 or 5 times a day, not one of them dented or chipped or suffered noticable damage. They build those things to last. I did learn the error in my methods but point is I will always pick cheap durable brands over expensive stuff I'm scared to use.
I'm curious what the shop's reaction was when you said the first thing you were going to do with it was run it through a dishwasher for a test and might need some restoration soon.
I think another reason for the No Knives in Washer mandate can be that Aunt Helga might put your knife into the silverware basket, leading it to bang against other objects and present a hazard for the unsuspecting person who unloads it later.
Worst kitchen injury I've ever seen was from this. I was sitting at the counter at a Waffle House, and the person reached into the top-loading dish washer right into a knife that was pointy end up. When she yanked her hand back it squirt blood across the counter.
You can just as easily say no knives in the kitchen at all because some idiot would cut themselves while it's in a drawer or on the table or something.
There's a reason why, in a lot of commerical kitchens, these knives are put into dishwashers with plastic removable trays and a pull down top. Trays that you slide into the dishwasher, and then slide out when done once you pull the handle to lift up the top. This way, the knife is removed from the dishwasher before being removed from the tray. Reduces the odds of getting cut compared to a low temp commercial or domestic dishwasher. Plus, high temp commercial washers wash so quickly (due to using water that can burn) that a twice a day wash leaves it with as much time in the machine as a knife washed once a month on quick in a domestic machine would experience. For materials that dislike being wet more than they dislike heat, high temperatures washes help the object last a lot longer than if they were washed slower and colder.
@@7792pnaurfrThe woman at Waffle House had a severed artery, and a good size one to spray across the counter. The means a hospital visit. If there is a chance that the person loading the dish washer won’t be the one emptying it, then knives should stay out of it. I personally will put cheap steak knives point down in a dish washer because I have poked myself with them when they are point up and don’t want anyone in my household to get injured. This is just called being considerate of others, something it’s apparent that you struggle with.
I just use a knife more than I run the dishwasher, so it would never occur to me to put it in there. Much like my favorite spatula. They are usually pretty easy to hand wash, and I will use it tomorrow - or even again later today.
Thats why I have tons of dishes knifes spatulas. Never needed to wash them by hand. Always have other ones…😝 They are surviving dishwashing for AGES… they sometimes go through dishwasher 2-3 times a day (big family haha)
@@bogdannbHow often do you sharpen your knives? I hand wash my couple of sharp knives, not butter nor my crappy serrated streak knives, and still bring them to be sharpened a couple times a year (at least once even if I’m being lazy). Ace hardware will do it for $5-$10 dollar depending on blade size and mine offers discounts for multiple. I feel like running a full washer cycle multiple times a day year round would diminish them really quickly and is just kinda overkill for a bit of gunk on the blade that could otherwise be wiped off with hot water and a soapy sponge in 15 seconds.
What always gets me weirded out by people putting knives in the dishwasher is how easy it is to wash a knife. Pans, pot lids, and plates can all have grooves and nooks and crannies that make sticking them in the dishwasher make sense but for my chefs knife (the only one I use the other 4 sit in the drawer all year round) gets washed multiple times a day easily, it's a flat object, naturally antibacterial surfaces, with no virtually no grooves to even collect bacteria. I run hot water and get a sponge soapy. Most knives fit perfectly in a folded sponge, and one or two swipes with the scrubby side of the sponge takes off the gooiest of cheese and sauce, a few more swipes on the soft side for good measure, soap up the rinse off the whole knife, and then a quick wipe down with a clean towel and the knife is back in action. I'll switch from deboning chicken to cutting fresh veg in as little as 60 seconds. There are even inexpensive knife cleaning brushes safe for people with uneasy hands so hand washing can be done while keeping the blade safely away from the fingers. It's easy and I've never felt the need to chuck the knives in the dishwasher unlike some other items in my kitchen.
That's one that's always bugged me as well. It takes less than 30 seconds to wash and dry a knife by hand or you can put it in the dishwasher to sit for however many more days it is until you run it. The only time I add utensils and cookware that I have only one or two of (spatulas, tongs, pots, etc.) is if my dishwasher is already pretty full with plates and cutlery and I'm going to run it anyway.
Yeah, one of the things in the kitchen that seems absolutely pointless to employ a machine to wash. You never get caked-on grime with a knife, and even if something does somehow stick it's a flat surface to scrub it off of. The one thing you have to be wary of is leaving a knife in the sink; it's easy to get cut by a blade you can't see
also i don't want to leave my knife in a dishwasher cutlery drawer i might want to reach into. The knife goes from visibly on the worksurface to being washed and dried to the block or roll where it safely lives without leaving my hands. I know where it is at all times so i don't have to worry about it being somewhere dangerous.
It’s what happens when someone doesn’t take a minute or two to quickly clean their knife after using it. If you cut meat, pizza, casserole, stuff like that, and _then_ let it dry, it’ll be so difficult to wash. You pretty much need to soak it in some way. My roommates do this quite often. :/
I think I learned something. Similar reason not to put carbon steel or cast iron in the dishwasher. It's not so much "the detergent is abrasive", but the 1 to 2 hours of water and steam content will likely invoke rust. Thank you science man!
This just made me appreciate my shitty knives so much more. No discoloration, no rust, cuts foods. We do have good special knives, but they don't get much use in daily cooking. Just special stuff.
Ya, I think the bigger concern is having things that fit your use case rather than some theoretical perfection. To wit- for all the bleeding edge performance of say a Ferrari; they need to be babied to a point I will only glimpse that perfection in a blue moon. All that engineering, gravitas, and heritage... only to collect dust on a shelf somewhere.
I just have a relatively cheap set of calphalon knives that I throw in the dishwasher ALL THE TIME. I've done it for probably the past 7 years or so. It's stainless steel, plastic handles, and all I have to do is hone / sharpen the knife about 3 times a year. For 99% of folks who just cook to eat the meals they make every day, dishwasher is totally fine.
i mean... i cook to eat meals i make every day and it aint fine, but that's because i use expensive knives. it really is dependent on what type of knife you use not what sort of cook you are.
I bought my first Sabatier knife 25 years ago. I collected them when I could afford them. I’m not sure if they’re still made as well, but I’ve been putting them in the dishwasher for the past 20 years, and haven’t lost one yet. Occasionally rust spots can be removed easily, and I sharpen my knives frequently. Everything needs to be dishwasher proof in my kitchen, otherwise I won’t use it, or it will sit covered in food. It doesn’t limit my options, it broadens them. I can be happy in the kitchen, knowing I’m not having to wash up, rather than get take away all the time. Most people probably don’t have such a strong washing-up aversion!
Most of my knives came from a restaurant supplier and I've been putting them in the dishwasher for the last 20 years and they're still just fine. No rust, no problems with the handles, they keep their edge, and I don't risk slicing my hand open every time I clean them.
Thanks for this. I was always skeptical that a dishwasher could do anything to the crystalline structure of stainless steel when surgical scalpels are routinely sterilized in autoclaves. Personally, I hand-wash my knives (and cutting board) immediately after use for the practical reason that I want them ready for reuse more frequently than I run my dishwasher. Dish washing just isn't a time-saver for my purposes.
"So, if you're the type to drive a Toyota and wear Kirkland Signature clothing..." That moment when a UA-camr that doesn't know you talks about you in front of everyone.
I'd like to advocate for a kitchen stocked with mostly dishwasher safe tools. Both I and my roommate have difficulty with our mental health and it can often be difficult to keep up with the dishes. If most of our tools were handwash only, they'd either never get cleaned or be destroyed in the dishwasher. That said, I have been slowly growing my own collection of special tools that are handwash only because I've been getting more comfortable in the kitchen. And my advice for those who struggle to keep up with dishes but want nicer tools: prioritize getting dishwasher safe utensils, dishes, and prep bowls. Those are usually enough to fill up a dishwasher on their own and are the most frequently used when you're not able to cook for yourself.
4:17 I personally wouldn’t use this knife cover/protector because the inside is likely wool (similar materials) that would trap moisture overtime, which means rusting even for a stainless steel knife. I have seen restoration and repair work done on knives that shares the same fate. Even if you oil it.
Oh nice! I almost purchased the GE Cafe collection that white really pops! Though we ended up with the GM Profile line because in the end we went with stainless steel theme. Great stuff!
I feel like I've always been just a few years behind the expected age of a NetShaq viewer and that ad really sold it for me. Still love the content, just need to comb through the archive everyonce in a while and catch up [poor me :)]. See you all in a few years when I'm buying fancy glasses.
I watched this entire video even though I have cheap knives that I treat like shit and I've never even used my dishwasher in the 3 years that I've had it. Very informative though lmao
I have an all stainless steel set of knives (handle and blade one piece solid metal) and we put all of them through the washer constantly. They are not as sharp as they could be, but other than having water stains which could be polished off, have never had rust at all. Don’t bother sharpening because they are still doing the job safely ie I’m not having to use stupid amounts of pressure or force which is where the slip and cut risk arises.
Knives are imo the easiest thing to clean in the kitchen. After I'm done cutting it takes no more than 15 seconds to rinse it, jerk it off with a soapy sponge, rinse It again, and give it one final stroke with a towel. Boom clean and dry. Not only is it convenient, but I also don't want to wait however long it will be for my dishwasher to fill up and run through a cycle to use my knife again.
Carbon isn't the reason for the rust, though it can make a small difference. The reason is low content of stain-resistant alloying metals (i.e. chromium, among others). Iron oxidizes. Your Misono is quite stainless if used normally and not left out wet. Many good, harder cutlery steels sre not as stainess as the likes of German and Swedish steels used in relatively soft European knives. There are also steels capable of achieving very high hardness and wear resistance which are almost impervious to rust, but these often come with tradeoffs like poor resistance to shock and repeated mechanical stress.
The difference between carbon steels and stainless steels is not the carbon content, rather the presence of chromium in stainless steels. Stainless steels can also rust. The reason they have good corrosion resistance is the other alloyed metals forming stable oxides, preventing the iron from rusting. They definitely are not immune to abuse though. One of the more common grades in knives used is AISI 440A, which has good - but not great - corrosion resistance. Another thing to consider is how the metal tempers/hardens. For example, AISI 440 steels are all martensitic so they age harden. Dishwasher temperatures probably aren't high enough to overage the metal on the time scale the knife would be in the dishwasher if you put it in there regularly. But this is something to be wary of since if it does cause the steel to overage, you will end up with a soft knife. TL;DR stainless steels can rust, high enough temperature exposure for long enough can soften certain metals
I just got myself a Victorinox Santoku of the same kind as in this video and seeing it in this video afterwards getting praise really validates my purchase tbh.
The carbon steel Misonos are very nice, I own the 9.4 inch chef’s knife and the 11.8 inch sujihiki slicer. The nicest thing about carbon steel (non-stainless) knives is how easy they are to sharpen. another gyuto i have has a blade made with a core of Hitachi White Paper no.1 steel, which sharpen up incredibly fast, and well. By contrast, knives of mine (a Chef’s knife and a couple of Spyderco folding knives) made with VG-10 steel take significantly more effort to get a good edge on. Though once sharpened, their edges last longer.
I always thought of the dulling in the dishwasher coming from food particles being shot around by the water jets, not the water itself. Seems like the tests were done with otherwise empty dishwashers. Potentially interesting to revisit with averagely soiled dishes to see this effect?
Ive been sending my victorinox knives in my dishwasher since I bought them and they are fine. When I worked in the back of the house we would always send the victorinox blades through the dishwasher as well.
I got a similar, though less-extreme approach: Anything that doesn't survive the dishwasher's standard 60°C program (which should hopefully also somewhat-disinifect) isn't dishwasher-safe.
I only happen to have stainless steel plastic handle knives, they're always being put in the dishwasher. They're currently suffering, but thats because i've literally never sharpened them. The one thats a year old still cuts well but noticeably worse than when it was new. the one thats 10 years old cuts things that don't offer too much resistance. I should really buy a sharpener and a honer soon...
I once stuck a stainless steel hunting knife in a tree and forgot about it, about a year later I found it and it was still sharp. The tether on the hand just fell apart when I touched it but the knife was fine after I cleaned it
My $200 Shun has gone through the dish washer a dozen times on accident. Still cuts and looks great. These are the same people who have a heart attack when you put dish soap on a cast iron.
You know, i use ikea’s chef’s knife and it has been with me for 8 years now, no wear and tear whatsoever except the sharp edge from daily uses. I do sharpen it from time to time. It costed me less than $100 AUD
Yeah, the riveted handle construction on nice knives is the problem. The enzymes and detergents in dishwasher tabs attack the wood and glue and can delaminate them from the tang. Two of my fave Wüsthof knives have gone that way - and no, it wasn't me that put em in the dishy!
Knives in the dishwasher, just fine. My Wusthof has been through 1000's of dishwasher cycles with zero ill effect. Those pricey Asian style knives are famously fragile.
One thing that drives me nuts about Decent/Nice Knife Ownership is sharpening correctly. It's a paradox. I have Wusthof knives and feel as though I can't use the diamond handheld home sharpener I have because watching a ton of UA-cam (kiwami japan, anyone?) has told me Decent Knife Maintenance = having a set of whetstones. And so my knives are dull!
whetstones are better because you can adjust the angle to be *just perfect* however it's definitely not needed, while i do own whetstones to sharpen my own knives i also have one of those handles with 3 preset "wheels" on em aswell, that one was however provided by the company that made the knives so it's set to the angle they think is optimal for the knives i use which honestly? is probably the best angle to have them sharpened at unless you really really know your stuff
For another data point I've been dishwahering a set of mundial knives that a housemate left behind for 8 years and they're still great. They might get a tiny spot of rust if I leave them in for a whole day without opening the door but apart from that nothing
It's way more important to place the knives in a place where they will be supported and not banged around than to not put them in the dishwasher. Carbon steel or wooden handles can't go in, but any materials that are decent stainless or not susceptible to water will be fine.
Yeah, I'm going to be honest here and say that I put all of my knives except one through the dishwasher. They are the set I got when I started culinary school, which was 11 years ago, and I still use them as my knife set at home. They've not been noticeably negatively affected by the dishwasher, but I also hone my knives before each use (even the paring knife) and my husband does a yearly whetstone sharpening for all of them. Only knife that never goes through the dishwasher is my superspecialawesomechocolatelyfudgecoatedmegasuper Dalstrong chef's knife.
I have a $20 stainless knife with a plastic handle and put it in the dishwasher 4-5 times a week. It can still slice cleanly though a soft ass tomato no dramas with 0 sharpening or honing.
Funny to see that this kind of dishwasher rack is new to the US (or just U potentially). We’ve had them over here for 10-20 years at least. Looks like an AEG brand (Electrolux).
Look man, I'm never going to buy a carbon steel knife. I don't even have a dishwasher. But I still love your videos because you're just so damn watchable.
The restaurant gear knives are usually replaced every 3 years max. Or whenever they stop cutting. My mid priced Chicago Cutlery chef, utility, and bread knives are going strong after 12 years. TBH, I'm not a pro, but...
Didn't see it mentioned for fair warning for anyone wanting to try this: knifes are tempered to achieve a desirable level of hardness which makes them easier to sharpen and/or less prone to chipping. If a knife gets too hot in the dishwasher it can lose its temper and theres no way to fix that without reforging it
I have heard this before and suspect it is a bit of a myth. water does not get hot enough to temper steel. in any case steel is tempered by bringing it up to temperature then slowly cooling it, so even if a dishwasher could get hot enough, you would not "lose" the temper unless you have an extodinary dishwasher which can reach several hundred degrees C and exeed the original temper.
@@stephen2828 Yeah I have no idea if its 100% true but dishwashers can get up to near boiling water temps which might not untemper the knife but could change it in a negative way
Needs at least around 600 deg F to ruin temper, not gonna happen in a dishwasher unless something has gone very wrong. Edit: ok nvm maybe something closer to 350 F but even then likely nothing would happen unless it was held for at least a few hours.
@@ashe767 i mean.... the water might only go up to 212 but the knife can go higher... depending on how long it's sitting in that heat the knife can and will not cooldown and just build up more heat as it can go higher than 212 even though the water might not
purchased a stainless steel set that I exclusively wash in the dishwasher, I sharpen twice a year and I've not seen any noticeable issues isn't that the point of the internet Shaquille, if something works, then it works.
I'm sure someone else has already pointed it out, but this reminds me of the "The Millie-churian Candidate" episode of Bob's Burgers. The mustache is further deepening the reference.
Isn't the isue with dishwashing knives not so much dulling the edge, but ruining the temper? The heat of the dishwasher messing up the knive's ability to *keep* an edge?
Oh, the horror. I'd never dishwash a knife with a wooden handle - regardless of metal composition. But i have a few with rubberized handles - some from culinary school "back in the day" - and over time the handles get slimy, and the dishwasher is the only thing that renders them comfortable to use again.
The danger of damage is not just to the knife but to the dishwasher as well. If you place the knife incorrectly and repeatedly nick the plastic coating on the rack, you’re going to get rust.
The Victorinox Fibrox knives are made from X50CrMoV15 Steel which has a 0.45-0.55 carbon content. Not close to one percent! I have five of them including the one above, which I highly recommend for someone who has never had a good "Chef's Knife".. I hand wash and hand dry each one, but I usually only cook for myself so it is no big deal. I can understand why they are washed in dishwashers in a commercial kitchen. It's practical. And I can understand in a family setting, with children who do "chores", a "NO KNIVES IN THE DISHWASHER" would be good policy! An adult can even watch over a child while he/she learns how to wash a knife safely.
I put all the knives into dishwasher, top drawer, even those with wooden handles, and behold, nothing is destroyed😅. Ok I sometimes handwash also...especially the one that rusts easily.
I know you like corollaries Shaq, so I'll add that this is not dissimilar from popular controversy surrounding the use of drive-thru car wash stations (which are almost unilaterally abhorred by "car people").
As a long-time Victorinox owner who totally forgot about the “no dishwasher” rule - phew. But seems like I hit the sweet spot with it. I’m no pro chef, I something still cut an onion all weird. Investing big money into something that won’t even make me a better cook and might get ruined very easily is….bad.
I'm a chef and I've been a knife enthusiast for a long time and I totally agree with you. I've had a lot of friends and family see my collection and get surprised when I don't recommend they get the same ones. I tell people to go for the Victorinox/Mercer/F. Dick because most people aren't interested in maintaining "nice" knives, and that's ok. Plus I find a lot of people don't bother sharpening their knives, like at all, so the damage from the dishwasher is negligible. It would be like suggesting someone build a custom race car when all they need is a Toyota Corolla to get to work.
a better knife can make you a better cook fyi. it isnt however a magical spend this amount to instantly be better type of deal. having the right knife for the right job helps make that job easier hence you become better at it, a better knife therefor does make you better as a cook however you're still gonna have to put in effort
I love the Victorinox. Got it on sale 75% off and took two because it was just too good of an offer. But I think I will gift the second to someone because I can't see that I will ever need replacement because it's so sturdy and functional not fancy.
I just want to correct you about why the carbon steel knife rusts more easily:
Carbon steel contains up to 2,4% carbon iirc, but the carbon content is not to blame for the oxidation. What gets oxidized is the Iron, not the Carbon. Stainless steel can have as much as 6% off other metals like Chromium mixed in (again, iirc). These metals are more resistent to oxidation and are they are responsible for making stainless steel not rust.
Thank you. Rust is iron oxide. It's the absence of corrosion resistant elements in the alloy combined with water and the other solvents and abrasives in detergent that allows more bare iron to react and corrode.
That moniker sure came in useful didn't it?!
Big props to Shaq for pinning this
higher grade stainless steels can be as much as 20% chromium
the 316 we order from Sandvik usually says 17% or so on the material inspection sheet
Carbon steel is ironically pretty low carbon
“I need to justify this knife purchase as a tax write off” 😂
A drop in the bucket after spending all my cash to start Barkley Ceramics 😅
@@internetshaquille so just to confirm don’t put my global knife in the dishwasher? I have the same cutlery top drawer 🤔
@@internetshaquille Barkley ceramics dishwasher video when?
Rather dishwasher.
Do we need to get into a broader discussion of the knife's continued use in the production of this media and/or the fair market value of a damaged high end chef's knife?
Used to work as a dishwasher. I would shove the cheap knives in a commercial dishwasher that could strip stains off in less than a minute and fling anything lighter than a couple ounces around like a frizbee if you weren't careful. Those knives went through that thing at least 4 or 5 times a day, not one of them dented or chipped or suffered noticable damage. They build those things to last. I did learn the error in my methods but point is I will always pick cheap durable brands over expensive stuff I'm scared to use.
I'm curious what the shop's reaction was when you said the first thing you were going to do with it was run it through a dishwasher for a test and might need some restoration soon.
I ended up spending an hour there while we talked it over. They even called the shop owner about it!
I was imagining the guy on the phone with Homer Simpson when he pours pop on the command consol.
@@internetshaquille Haha! "That's it, I'm telling mom!"
@@internetshaquille Glad to hear they were okay with it for the science 😂
@@internetshaquille "Hey boss, we got a crazy guy over here threatening to harm his knife, what should we do?"
Reality is always more nuanced, obviously, but I'm still appreciative of your ability to communicate this broader topic in very specific situations.
Sitting here wearing a Kirkland logo t-shirt feeling seen. 😂
Okay William Montgomery! (IYKYK) 🤣
My Costco pants are feeling validated too!!
wool socks and boxer briefs..... every day of my life
This hit waaaay too close to home I drive a lexus and only wear kirkland blue jeans to work lol
I think another reason for the No Knives in Washer mandate can be that Aunt Helga might put your knife into the silverware basket, leading it to bang against other objects and present a hazard for the unsuspecting person who unloads it later.
Worst kitchen injury I've ever seen was from this. I was sitting at the counter at a Waffle House, and the person reached into the top-loading dish washer right into a knife that was pointy end up. When she yanked her hand back it squirt blood across the counter.
You can just as easily say no knives in the kitchen at all because some idiot would cut themselves while it's in a drawer or on the table or something.
@@7792pnaurfr ... No, that's not "just as easily." A knife in an expected place and a knife in an unexpected place are two different levels of danger.
There's a reason why, in a lot of commerical kitchens, these knives are put into dishwashers with plastic removable trays and a pull down top. Trays that you slide into the dishwasher, and then slide out when done once you pull the handle to lift up the top. This way, the knife is removed from the dishwasher before being removed from the tray. Reduces the odds of getting cut compared to a low temp commercial or domestic dishwasher.
Plus, high temp commercial washers wash so quickly (due to using water that can burn) that a twice a day wash leaves it with as much time in the machine as a knife washed once a month on quick in a domestic machine would experience. For materials that dislike being wet more than they dislike heat, high temperatures washes help the object last a lot longer than if they were washed slower and colder.
@@7792pnaurfrThe woman at Waffle House had a severed artery, and a good size one to spray across the counter. The means a hospital visit. If there is a chance that the person loading the dish washer won’t be the one emptying it, then knives should stay out of it. I personally will put cheap steak knives point down in a dish washer because I have poked myself with them when they are point up and don’t want anyone in my household to get injured. This is just called being considerate of others, something it’s apparent that you struggle with.
I just use a knife more than I run the dishwasher, so it would never occur to me to put it in there. Much like my favorite spatula. They are usually pretty easy to hand wash, and I will use it tomorrow - or even again later today.
exactly-- i use my favorite kitchen tools too frequently to justify waiting for a wash cycle
Thats why I have tons of dishes knifes spatulas. Never needed to wash them by hand. Always have other ones…😝 They are surviving dishwashing for AGES… they sometimes go through dishwasher 2-3 times a day (big family haha)
@@bogdannbHow often do you sharpen your knives? I hand wash my couple of sharp knives, not butter nor my crappy serrated streak knives, and still bring them to be sharpened a couple times a year (at least once even if I’m being lazy). Ace hardware will do it for $5-$10 dollar depending on blade size and mine offers discounts for multiple. I feel like running a full washer cycle multiple times a day year round would diminish them really quickly and is just kinda overkill for a bit of gunk on the blade that could otherwise be wiped off with hot water and a soapy sponge in 15 seconds.
What always gets me weirded out by people putting knives in the dishwasher is how easy it is to wash a knife. Pans, pot lids, and plates can all have grooves and nooks and crannies that make sticking them in the dishwasher make sense but for my chefs knife (the only one I use the other 4 sit in the drawer all year round) gets washed multiple times a day easily, it's a flat object, naturally antibacterial surfaces, with no virtually no grooves to even collect bacteria. I run hot water and get a sponge soapy. Most knives fit perfectly in a folded sponge, and one or two swipes with the scrubby side of the sponge takes off the gooiest of cheese and sauce, a few more swipes on the soft side for good measure, soap up the rinse off the whole knife, and then a quick wipe down with a clean towel and the knife is back in action. I'll switch from deboning chicken to cutting fresh veg in as little as 60 seconds. There are even inexpensive knife cleaning brushes safe for people with uneasy hands so hand washing can be done while keeping the blade safely away from the fingers. It's easy and I've never felt the need to chuck the knives in the dishwasher unlike some other items in my kitchen.
That's one that's always bugged me as well. It takes less than 30 seconds to wash and dry a knife by hand or you can put it in the dishwasher to sit for however many more days it is until you run it. The only time I add utensils and cookware that I have only one or two of (spatulas, tongs, pots, etc.) is if my dishwasher is already pretty full with plates and cutlery and I'm going to run it anyway.
Yeah, one of the things in the kitchen that seems absolutely pointless to employ a machine to wash. You never get caked-on grime with a knife, and even if something does somehow stick it's a flat surface to scrub it off of. The one thing you have to be wary of is leaving a knife in the sink; it's easy to get cut by a blade you can't see
also i don't want to leave my knife in a dishwasher cutlery drawer i might want to reach into. The knife goes from visibly on the worksurface to being washed and dried to the block or roll where it safely lives without leaving my hands. I know where it is at all times so i don't have to worry about it being somewhere dangerous.
It’s what happens when someone doesn’t take a minute or two to quickly clean their knife after using it. If you cut meat, pizza, casserole, stuff like that, and _then_ let it dry, it’ll be so difficult to wash. You pretty much need to soak it in some way. My roommates do this quite often. :/
People who pay DOORDASH $40 for $10 worth of food will definitely be too lazy to wash a knife.
I think I learned something. Similar reason not to put carbon steel or cast iron in the dishwasher. It's not so much "the detergent is abrasive", but the 1 to 2 hours of water and steam content will likely invoke rust.
Thank you science man!
This just made me appreciate my shitty knives so much more. No discoloration, no rust, cuts foods. We do have good special knives, but they don't get much use in daily cooking. Just special stuff.
Ya, I think the bigger concern is having things that fit your use case rather than some theoretical perfection.
To wit- for all the bleeding edge performance of say a Ferrari; they need to be babied to a point I will only glimpse that perfection in a blue moon. All that engineering, gravitas, and heritage... only to collect dust on a shelf somewhere.
I just have a relatively cheap set of calphalon knives that I throw in the dishwasher ALL THE TIME. I've done it for probably the past 7 years or so. It's stainless steel, plastic handles, and all I have to do is hone / sharpen the knife about 3 times a year. For 99% of folks who just cook to eat the meals they make every day, dishwasher is totally fine.
i mean... i cook to eat meals i make every day and it aint fine, but that's because i use expensive knives. it really is dependent on what type of knife you use not what sort of cook you are.
i have one of thoose victorinox knifes with the same handle for years its been in the dishwasher well over 100 times and its still great.
You are so brave for doing this
The end of every netshaq video has far more wit and comedic value then most actual comedians can muster.
I bought my first Sabatier knife 25 years ago. I collected them when I could afford them. I’m not sure if they’re still made as well, but I’ve been putting them in the dishwasher for the past 20 years, and haven’t lost one yet. Occasionally rust spots can be removed easily, and I sharpen my knives frequently. Everything needs to be dishwasher proof in my kitchen, otherwise I won’t use it, or it will sit covered in food. It doesn’t limit my options, it broadens them. I can be happy in the kitchen, knowing I’m not having to wash up, rather than get take away all the time.
Most people probably don’t have such a strong washing-up aversion!
2:11 hahahaha! Good one, and nothing less than we expect from you.
don't lie, you just did this video to write off the fancy knife and dishwasher as a business expense
now I need a video idea that features the matching fridge
@@internetshaquillehow about “I put my fanciest knife in the fridge”
Most of my knives came from a restaurant supplier and I've been putting them in the dishwasher for the last 20 years and they're still just fine. No rust, no problems with the handles, they keep their edge, and I don't risk slicing my hand open every time I clean them.
Restaurant supply stores are the best way to avoid the foodie-snobberie and know you're getting good quality cookware that will last forever.
You deducted your dishwasher and knife.... GIGACHAD
Ok those viski glasses ARE beautiful. Yeah, i watched the ad. You're welcome.
Thanks for this. I was always skeptical that a dishwasher could do anything to the crystalline structure of stainless steel when surgical scalpels are routinely sterilized in autoclaves.
Personally, I hand-wash my knives (and cutting board) immediately after use for the practical reason that I want them ready for reuse more frequently than I run my dishwasher. Dish washing just isn't a time-saver for my purposes.
"So, if you're the type to drive a Toyota and wear Kirkland Signature clothing..."
That moment when a UA-camr that doesn't know you talks about you in front of everyone.
“Until, of course, I tried it again” That caught me so off guard I choked on my laugh.
I'd like to advocate for a kitchen stocked with mostly dishwasher safe tools. Both I and my roommate have difficulty with our mental health and it can often be difficult to keep up with the dishes. If most of our tools were handwash only, they'd either never get cleaned or be destroyed in the dishwasher.
That said, I have been slowly growing my own collection of special tools that are handwash only because I've been getting more comfortable in the kitchen. And my advice for those who struggle to keep up with dishes but want nicer tools: prioritize getting dishwasher safe utensils, dishes, and prep bowls. Those are usually enough to fill up a dishwasher on their own and are the most frequently used when you're not able to cook for yourself.
This video is banger. Great work!
You're the best, man. Love your attention to detail & writing style. Super fun, educational watch
Really wasn't expecting the damage on the high-quality knife to be so visible and immediate. Also don't know how I missed this one.
4:17 I personally wouldn’t use this knife cover/protector because the inside is likely wool (similar materials) that would trap moisture overtime, which means rusting even for a stainless steel knife. I have seen restoration and repair work done on knives that shares the same fate. Even if you oil it.
Oh nice! I almost purchased the GE Cafe collection that white really pops! Though we ended up with the GM Profile line because in the end we went with stainless steel theme. Great stuff!
What a risk taker
I feel like I've always been just a few years behind the expected age of a NetShaq viewer and that ad really sold it for me. Still love the content, just need to comb through the archive everyonce in a while and catch up [poor me :)]. See you all in a few years when I'm buying fancy glasses.
That top rack is a loser anyway. I removed ours and do not miss it.
I watched this entire video even though I have cheap knives that I treat like shit and I've never even used my dishwasher in the 3 years that I've had it. Very informative though lmao
I have an all stainless steel set of knives (handle and blade one piece solid metal) and we put all of them through the washer constantly. They are not as sharp as they could be, but other than having water stains which could be polished off, have never had rust at all. Don’t bother sharpening because they are still doing the job safely ie I’m not having to use stupid amounts of pressure or force which is where the slip and cut risk arises.
Knives are imo the easiest thing to clean in the kitchen. After I'm done cutting it takes no more than 15 seconds to rinse it, jerk it off with a soapy sponge, rinse It again, and give it one final stroke with a towel.
Boom clean and dry. Not only is it convenient, but I also don't want to wait however long it will be for my dishwasher to fill up and run through a cycle to use my knife again.
No more hand washing my Wusthof or Misen for this guy! 🎉 😂
Carbon isn't the reason for the rust, though it can make a small difference. The reason is low content of stain-resistant alloying metals (i.e. chromium, among others). Iron oxidizes. Your Misono is quite stainless if used normally and not left out wet. Many good, harder cutlery steels sre not as stainess as the likes of German and Swedish steels used in relatively soft European knives. There are also steels capable of achieving very high hardness and wear resistance which are almost impervious to rust, but these often come with tradeoffs like poor resistance to shock and repeated mechanical stress.
The difference between carbon steels and stainless steels is not the carbon content, rather the presence of chromium in stainless steels.
Stainless steels can also rust. The reason they have good corrosion resistance is the other alloyed metals forming stable oxides, preventing the iron from rusting. They definitely are not immune to abuse though.
One of the more common grades in knives used is AISI 440A, which has good - but not great - corrosion resistance. Another thing to consider is how the metal tempers/hardens. For example, AISI 440 steels are all martensitic so they age harden. Dishwasher temperatures probably aren't high enough to overage the metal on the time scale the knife would be in the dishwasher if you put it in there regularly. But this is something to be wary of since if it does cause the steel to overage, you will end up with a soft knife.
TL;DR stainless steels can rust, high enough temperature exposure for long enough can soften certain metals
Honestly, I play too rough with my cooking tools to get something delicate. Thank you for the recommendation
Love the whole "whatever doesn't survive" vibe
I just got myself a Victorinox Santoku of the same kind as in this video and seeing it in this video afterwards getting praise really validates my purchase tbh.
I miss my old Bosch dishwasher... it had the same top rack and I loved it.
Not possible to slide in a separate top rack?
The carbon steel Misonos are very nice, I own the 9.4 inch chef’s knife and the 11.8 inch sujihiki slicer. The nicest thing about carbon steel (non-stainless) knives is how easy they are to sharpen. another gyuto i have has a blade made with a core of Hitachi White Paper no.1 steel, which sharpen up incredibly fast, and well. By contrast, knives of mine (a Chef’s knife and a couple of Spyderco folding knives) made with VG-10 steel take significantly more effort to get a good edge on. Though once sharpened, their edges last longer.
This video gives me hope for all my "hand wash only" clothing that's never getting washed.
I always thought of the dulling in the dishwasher coming from food particles being shot around by the water jets, not the water itself. Seems like the tests were done with otherwise empty dishwashers. Potentially interesting to revisit with averagely soiled dishes to see this effect?
Thank you, bro. I got my boyfriend Wusthof knives for Christmas and we don't have a dishwasher, but I'm relieved I know this before we get one.
Ive been sending my victorinox knives in my dishwasher since I bought them and they are fine.
When I worked in the back of the house we would always send the victorinox blades through the dishwasher as well.
To remove that rust, try Bar Keepers Friend (oxalic acid). It works a treat!
I got a similar, though less-extreme approach: Anything that doesn't survive the dishwasher's standard 60°C program (which should hopefully also somewhat-disinifect) isn't dishwasher-safe.
Every so often you mention books in your videos and they are pretty good reads. Any recommendations or favorite books you could suggest?
I only happen to have stainless steel plastic handle knives, they're always being put in the dishwasher.
They're currently suffering, but thats because i've literally never sharpened them.
The one thats a year old still cuts well but noticeably worse than when it was new. the one thats 10 years old cuts things that don't offer too much resistance.
I should really buy a sharpener and a honer soon...
I once stuck a stainless steel hunting knife in a tree and forgot about it, about a year later I found it and it was still sharp. The tether on the hand just fell apart when I touched it but the knife was fine after I cleaned it
Ahhh, general advice and the people that pick it up and parrot it. They never fail to amuse me
My $200 Shun has gone through the dish washer a dozen times on accident. Still cuts and looks great. These are the same people who have a heart attack when you put dish soap on a cast iron.
Another banger of a video my dude
the Kirkland signature clothing got me because Costco is my go to for clothing
You know, i use ikea’s chef’s knife and it has been with me for 8 years now, no wear and tear whatsoever except the sharp edge from daily uses. I do sharpen it from time to time. It costed me less than $100 AUD
Yeah, the riveted handle construction on nice knives is the problem. The enzymes and detergents in dishwasher tabs attack the wood and glue and can delaminate them from the tang. Two of my fave Wüsthof knives have gone that way - and no, it wasn't me that put em in the dishy!
Knives in the dishwasher, just fine. My Wusthof has been through 1000's of dishwasher cycles with zero ill effect. Those pricey Asian style knives are famously fragile.
I'm a "Honda and old college baseball sweats I got for free" guy but the "Toyota/Kirkland" clothes resonated just the same
One thing that drives me nuts about Decent/Nice Knife Ownership is sharpening correctly. It's a paradox. I have Wusthof knives and feel as though I can't use the diamond handheld home sharpener I have because watching a ton of UA-cam (kiwami japan, anyone?) has told me Decent Knife Maintenance = having a set of whetstones. And so my knives are dull!
ua-cam.com/video/uobhCSJ5cgc/v-deo.html
adam ragusea has made a somewhat related argument in one of his videos, that the best knife sharpener is one that you _actually use_
whetstones are better because you can adjust the angle to be *just perfect* however it's definitely not needed, while i do own whetstones to sharpen my own knives i also have one of those handles with 3 preset "wheels" on em aswell, that one was however provided by the company that made the knives so it's set to the angle they think is optimal for the knives i use which honestly? is probably the best angle to have them sharpened at unless you really really know your stuff
For another data point I've been dishwahering a set of mundial knives that a housemate left behind for 8 years and they're still great. They might get a tiny spot of rust if I leave them in for a whole day without opening the door but apart from that nothing
It's way more important to place the knives in a place where they will be supported and not banged around than to not put them in the dishwasher.
Carbon steel or wooden handles can't go in, but any materials that are decent stainless or not susceptible to water will be fine.
Yeah, I'm going to be honest here and say that I put all of my knives except one through the dishwasher. They are the set I got when I started culinary school, which was 11 years ago, and I still use them as my knife set at home. They've not been noticeably negatively affected by the dishwasher, but I also hone my knives before each use (even the paring knife) and my husband does a yearly whetstone sharpening for all of them.
Only knife that never goes through the dishwasher is my superspecialawesomechocolatelyfudgecoatedmegasuper Dalstrong chef's knife.
You could likely do this with crucible steel like CruWear or M390 or D2 but classic Japanese knife makers love their high carbons.
such a good writer
I have a $20 stainless knife with a plastic handle and put it in the dishwasher 4-5 times a week. It can still slice cleanly though a soft ass tomato no dramas with 0 sharpening or honing.
Funny to see that this kind of dishwasher rack is new to the US (or just U potentially). We’ve had them over here for 10-20 years at least. Looks like an AEG brand (Electrolux).
Look man, I'm never going to buy a carbon steel knife. I don't even have a dishwasher. But I still love your videos because you're just so damn watchable.
The restaurant gear knives are usually replaced every 3 years max. Or whenever they stop cutting. My mid priced Chicago Cutlery chef, utility, and bread knives are going strong after 12 years. TBH, I'm not a pro, but...
2:50 I’m currently wearing my KS sweatshirt
Didn't see it mentioned for fair warning for anyone wanting to try this: knifes are tempered to achieve a desirable level of hardness which makes them easier to sharpen and/or less prone to chipping. If a knife gets too hot in the dishwasher it can lose its temper and theres no way to fix that without reforging it
I have heard this before and suspect it is a bit of a myth. water does not get hot enough to temper steel. in any case steel is tempered by bringing it up to temperature then slowly cooling it, so even if a dishwasher could get hot enough, you would not "lose" the temper unless you have an extodinary dishwasher which can reach several hundred degrees C and exeed the original temper.
@@stephen2828 Yeah I have no idea if its 100% true but dishwashers can get up to near boiling water temps which might not untemper the knife but could change it in a negative way
Needs at least around 600 deg F to ruin temper, not gonna happen in a dishwasher unless something has gone very wrong. Edit: ok nvm maybe something closer to 350 F but even then likely nothing would happen unless it was held for at least a few hours.
I mean, water/steam can't get any hotter than 212°F, so there's really no issue if the knife will only be damaged at 350°+.
@@ashe767 i mean.... the water might only go up to 212 but the knife can go higher... depending on how long it's sitting in that heat the knife can and will not cooldown and just build up more heat as it can go higher than 212 even though the water might not
purchased a stainless steel set that I exclusively wash in the dishwasher, I sharpen twice a year and I've not seen any noticeable issues isn't that the point of the internet Shaquille, if something works, then it works.
That top rack good for a few horizontal items? That's where the silverware goes
This is my new favorite cooking channel. 🙃🙃
I have the misono flower engraving 210. Even after a year I still have the sticker on the handle.
I wash even cheap knives by hand because I usually use them frequently enough that I can't wait for the dishwasher cycle before I use them again...
As someone with a history in appliance sales I've enjoyed seeing the glow up progression from GE/profile to Cafe
Stay classy bud
I'm sure someone else has already pointed it out, but this reminds me of the "The Millie-churian Candidate" episode of Bob's Burgers. The mustache is further deepening the reference.
Isn't the isue with dishwashing knives not so much dulling the edge, but ruining the temper? The heat of the dishwasher messing up the knive's ability to *keep* an edge?
No. 212 degrees does not effect the temper in any way.
I have that Misono and part of my soul died when I saw you put it in there.
Oh, the horror. I'd never dishwash a knife with a wooden handle - regardless of metal composition. But i have a few with rubberized handles - some from culinary school "back in the day" - and over time the handles get slimy, and the dishwasher is the only thing that renders them comfortable to use again.
Now I'm wishing I had a top-top rack for my Victorinox.
The danger of damage is not just to the knife but to the dishwasher as well. If you place the knife incorrectly and repeatedly nick the plastic coating on the rack, you’re going to get rust.
I read this title and it made me so worried!
He murdered me with that toyota and kirkland clothes comment with the victorinox knife he got from my kitchen
Yeah, I thought that was a little snotty
The Victorinox Fibrox knives are made from X50CrMoV15 Steel which has a 0.45-0.55 carbon content. Not close to one percent!
I have five of them including the one above, which I highly recommend for someone who has never had a good "Chef's Knife".. I hand wash and hand dry each one, but I usually only cook for myself so it is no big deal. I can understand why they are washed in dishwashers in a commercial kitchen. It's practical. And I can understand in a family setting, with children who do "chores", a "NO KNIVES IN THE DISHWASHER" would be good policy! An adult can even watch over a child while he/she learns how to wash a knife safely.
All steels have carbon content below (approximately) 1 percent
Much more than that it's not steel anymore, it's cast iron.
I put all the knives into dishwasher, top drawer, even those with wooden handles, and behold, nothing is destroyed😅. Ok I sometimes handwash also...especially the one that rusts easily.
Gods I love your attention to detail, stay Holmes, homie
4:55 amazing
This is why I started buying dollar store knives, it gets dull, I toss it.
I love my victronox and despite wearing patagonia and driving porsches….dishwashing my knives is amazing
you wild for this. props
Me after 47 seconds: “the third tray of the machine is not gentle enough! Don’t do it!”
I know you like corollaries Shaq, so I'll add that this is not dissimilar from popular controversy surrounding the use of drive-thru car wash stations (which are almost unilaterally abhorred by "car people").
no no no you got it all wrong it's CALORIES that i'm enamored with gimme a freakin cheese pizza right this second
@@internetshaquille I thought it was Corollas since you’re a big Toyota and Kirkland guy.
As a long-time Victorinox owner who totally forgot about the “no dishwasher” rule - phew. But seems like I hit the sweet spot with it.
I’m no pro chef, I something still cut an onion all weird. Investing big money into something that won’t even make me a better cook and might get ruined very easily is….bad.
I'm a chef and I've been a knife enthusiast for a long time and I totally agree with you. I've had a lot of friends and family see my collection and get surprised when I don't recommend they get the same ones. I tell people to go for the Victorinox/Mercer/F. Dick because most people aren't interested in maintaining "nice" knives, and that's ok. Plus I find a lot of people don't bother sharpening their knives, like at all, so the damage from the dishwasher is negligible.
It would be like suggesting someone build a custom race car when all they need is a Toyota Corolla to get to work.
a better knife can make you a better cook fyi. it isnt however a magical spend this amount to instantly be better type of deal. having the right knife for the right job helps make that job easier hence you become better at it, a better knife therefor does make you better as a cook however you're still gonna have to put in effort
I love the Victorinox.
Got it on sale 75% off and took two because it was just too good of an offer. But I think I will gift the second to someone because I can't see that I will ever need replacement because it's so sturdy and functional not fancy.
homie knew he could write that thang off by making a video
🫡
This reminds me of the Bob's Burgers episode where he buys a fancy knife that ultimately gets destroyed by a fancy hammer.