Choose Your Forge: Coal VS Propane | Making a Propane Forge Perform Better
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- In the last video, I showed you how I built an over-engineered stand for the new propane forge. Here, we discuss the pros and cons between the two styles of heat source. Which will you choose? The Affordable Forge: amzn.to/37jBpyO
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The Affordable Forge: amzn.to/37jBpyO
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Might be a bit late but I wouldn't forget about charcoal forges either, especially if you're looking for a budget option to get started. Charcoal forges can be as simple as a hole in the ground with a hair dryer pointed at it. You can use either store bought lump charcoal or homemade charcoal if you've access to wood to convert. For forge welding, it gets the steel hot enough. However, it produces a lot of ash that can get between the steel and prevent it from welding properly, making it sometimes difficult to weld. Fire management can be a pain, as like coal you have to stay on top of it. It also produces a lot of sparks that can burn shirts and skin, though you get used to those sorts of things anyway when forging. Charcoal I believe burns faster than coal, so you'll be adding more fuel more frequently. You also have to prepare the charcoal beforehand by breaking it down into smaller chunks about half the size of your thumb. I think the main appeal for charcoal is how accessible it is for beginners, you only need charcoal, a hair dryer, and a hole to make a forge. Once you have it, you can always make more fuel if you can get your hands on scrap wood, meaning it can be pretty cheap to run it if you're on a budget.
I could never get it those hot enough
Very well made and truly informative. Thanks Brett !
Thanks As always Remy
Great info there Brett, I knew some of it but also learned a good deal.
Well, mission accomplished then
Good stuff. I feel a little better about my coal setup now. Thanks Brett.
Good deal
Thank you for explaining the differences between the two fuel types, Captain. This helps me make a decision for further down the line when I start the Frenetic Ferret Forge.
Aye aye
Thanks for another great video Brett!
Thank YOU
Thanks for the video Brett. Informative and entertaining. Keep safe and stay well.
Cheers Colin
I learned something on that one. Well done, Sir!
Well good
When the ship runs out of ocean, and the vessel runs aground, Hand Modeling is where The Captain can be found.
Aye. With my grimy mitts
Props for the giants reference! I sang thas as I read it 😎
Instablaster.
Very informative captain!
Thank ye ms kaylee
What an informative and well done video! Great work!
Thanks Jared!
Great video, really informative and you gave a really nice balance of facts and experience. I feel educated!
Well good
That was great info. And delivered in a great way.
Good deal
Awesome work Brett, thanks for the info! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
Cheers Fred
I love this channel omg
Woohoo
Great info there, Brett! Thanks!
Thanks as always Billy!
Great breakdown
Thank ye
Great comparison. I used a coal forge at a friend's shop. It was a lot of fun!
I love my coal forge
Great video Bret, keep it up 👍
Woohoo
Great comparison Bret. I learned on coal and really enjoyed it. Then later I moved into the city with neighbors close by. Starting up a coal forge can be smokey with propane I don't have to worry about that. After a few years with propane I'm now looking for a coal forge again because I miss it and some of its advantages.
Aye. Well said brother
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for watching
A lot more of an interesting topic then I thought it would be. I can certainly understand the benefits of both.
Cheers Mike
Cheers mate. This was really helpful. I purchased a cheap forge as to not invest too much until I was sure this was something I really wanted to do. After a week I knew I needed something a little more serious. Logistically and availability make coal a no go for me. I'm in the process of making my own gas forge and I'll definitely be "borrowing" some of your ideas. So thanks again for the post, appreciated.
Borrow away
My conclusion - it's best to have both ;) Cheers Brett - thanks for sharing another awesome video. Happy Sunday :)
Thank YOU
Elegantly done brother! The Tubes have been missing a clean, no BS video on this.
💀♠️¹³
⚒🔥
🤜🏾💥🤛🏾
Darn right
Very informative Matey 🔨🔨👍
Cheers brother
@@skullandspade 🔥🔨👍😊
Very educational! I would mainly use a propane forge for decorative hinge work! I have a single burner but would like to have a two or three burner propane! No all burners would need to run just the placement of burner and would like a rectangle forge!
I have acetylene that is my go to for most metal work!
I like your propane setup! I’m going to copy that feature and use that gate! I have just fire bricks and it takes time for moving! I lose the edge on work! 1/4 to 20 gauge metal cools rapidly!
I appreciate seeing you dedicated smith’s and your work place! Awesome 👏
Thank you! There’s definitely a lot of value in the consistent heat of propane setups.
Thanks for the insight into coal and propane.
Cheers anthony
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar!
This was a great summary of the differences/advantages between each system, thanks!
Yes sir!
That's very well said on that on running blacksmith battle. On gas vs coal. Great video Brett. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge on.
Thank you sir
@@skullandspade ur very welcome my friend forge on
Educational; thank you sir.
Thank you as always Raynola
Your video is very creative.
Woot
Short and simple
Indeed
Thanks for the video. I have built myself a coal forge and was wondering if I should include a propane forge in my setup. You have helped me to answer that question. Thanks Cap’n.
They both have their purpose for sure
Well said
Thank you sir
Great breakdown!
Both setups have their pros and cons, and if I had to choose I'm in camp coal. But they complement each other well, so if I had a forge area I would probably also go for one of each. Makes it easier to have hammer ins as well! 😁
Brilliant idea. They really do have their own merit. Glad I have both options now
With enough modifications a coal forge can run similar to gas. But it requires the breaking of some rules.
9:34 "We call it... Mr volcano" with spaceballs vibe ;)
Hahahahah
Great video on propane and coal forge.l Iike coal forge more👍👍🔥🔥🔥
I do too ; )
Good topic.
Have yet to buy my first forge but I plan to work with mild steel sheets so an open top coal forge is about it plus I'm low income.
Besides with how bad luck follows me a propane forge is likely to blow my eyebrows off against all odds, I like to avoid compressed flammable containers as a rule in life.
Also can't deny the fine tuned old world charm of coal forges.
There’s definitely old world charm attached to the coal forge
Gawd dang-it Bobby! There's only one type of forge you need. Propane!
Propane with propane accessories!
...
...
That boy ain't right...
Oh hank.
Enjoy your videos
Thank ye
That's a very food comparison between the two. It really depends on your needs. If I had to choose I'd choose both 😉
As well you should
Love the skulls lmao
If you forged that metal skull will you do an episode on how you did it? Thats awsome. Great video im considering getting a forge now that I own my home. Im an electrician and have access to large amounts of metals...
Love the review bro I would like to know which one would be cheaper when it comes to cost of fuel per hour
There are far too many variables like “how hot are you running it, how big is your stock, door open/closed, etc.” I’d bank on coal being less expensive overall, but it’s a lot harder to source than propane for most folks
Great run through of the issues/benefits of each. How long does a tank of propane last?
This is a 10 gallon and it’s been running for... around 12 hours on low psi over the last few sessions. I’m maybe half way through it
Great video, very informative. Lots of knowledge passed here. Were you playing with Jessie's toys in the intro? Mahalo for sharing! : )
THOSE ARE MY TOYS!
@@skullandspade lol
I didn't expect a reference to "Firefly".
Always
I may not be very experienced in all this. However its just like a hammer or tongs. If you need wolf jaws and a crosspein...you need em but sometimes you need box jaw and rounding hammer.
So coal forge complements propane just as propane compliments coal.
Ultimate answer???
Both.
Every Smith should be able to use what best suits the current needs.
Both fits the bill
Loved the video captn
🙏 Blessed day and well wishes Sir
Crawford out ⚒️🧙♂️
Well said
In my humble opinion charcoal or coal forges are always up and running, I am not underestimating propane forges, but I really like coal forges cause you can build them from a grill and it is a budget low to start. Also a coal forge let's you think how things started in blacksmith art, a little bit of history, call me romantic about this. Coal forge is my option.
Truth
Great info! One thing I may have missed, did you mention shape or a piece. If you are making a knife or anything straight, most propane forges are great. If you are making some weird sculpture like Mount_Phillip_Metal_Works a coal forge might be more accommodating. (Learned that from Chris Cash, I'll probably still buy a small propane forge and then try to bend something and then learn it doesn't fit back in the forge.)
Zing
@@MtPhillipMetalWorks I am 100% in weird sculpture camp!
Hey Brett
I've played around with blowing back the dragons breath from the opening of the gas forge to stop the overheating of the end you want to handle, might be something to consider for a followup video?
Do you mean you have a fan? I put a small blower right under my door pointed up and it helped a lot.
@@mossyhollow3732 that's actually a nice idea. I will try that.
There it is^
@@mossyhollow3732 yep im sure I've heard or seen a comment about it somewhere, but would love to see it in practice
Here ya go. Make sure to read the description. ua-cam.com/video/sGm7qQsXTjA/v-deo.html
How about pro-coal? A coal forge with extra burners, like an older style gas BBQ? Best of both worlds. ;)
That is the dream
Hi Brett!Thanks for showing!Gas or coal !? Depends on the area of application !I forge with coal !(beech charcol )And it works very well !Keep it up brett Greeting #Bulatsschmiede (The Blacksmith Bulat from germany)😎🤟
Thank you as always sir
@@skullandspade 😎🤟
I rarely use coal, but I'm sure that it'll put out a lot more heat via pumicecrete rocket stove than pine.
Wait till you use feed corn as fuel and see the most beautiful flame ever. I’m new to forging, but I love it.
That’s weird. I dig it
My single 1”burner gas forge will weld wrought iron. At 8psi. I know you said it might be possible but I thought I’d chime in.
Wrought welds much easier than mild steel, which is what most beginners will be going after. Especially with flux and a heavy hammer
It welds much easier than mild steel, but requires higher heat. That’s what’s said anyway. I’ve never tested it so see if it indeed it true or not. I just know they both need way more than medium & high carbon steel.
If you're looking to forge weld, coal/coke is a better option anyway. Not only is it easier to get to a higher temperature, but coke burns dry. Part of the chemical proccess that turns propane into fire makes water, which makes your steel oxidize faster. You don't get that problem with coke.
Coal doesn't burn dry either.
It has a water content of up to 20% in anthracite and even coke isn't as dry as you seem to think.
And there is more free air in coal forges than in gas ones.
@@Glaswalker1001 are you saying the internet has been lying to me for years?! Oh man... I feel so betrayed. XD Thanks for the info.
@@KrakenCasting yeah, I also thought that coal was dry as rock, but while visiting an old coal mine I was corrected.
In that particular mine the coal was so moist that they jokingly referred to it as being "the only flame retardant coal in Germany".
Isn't there also something with the metal changing when you use coal?
You may be thinking of carbon adsorption which only can be achieved evenly with case hardening compounds. It's usually a bone carbon powder. Also, certain rare alloys will become damaged if overheated which is easier to do with coal. Wrought and mild steel won't be affected. It just sparks as it oxidizes.
Well said
Well that solves it. Whenever a student ask, I'll just send them to you Capt'n. Take care of the green landlubbers, will you?
I’ll do my best
The true argument is summed up in, "what do you want to do . . ." Like any tool, what you want to do should drive the tool you use and not the other way around.
Exactly
Gas sure is noisy, got to have a good coal ambience!
Absolutely
So are you saying no damascus with this propane forge,I'm asking because I was considering buying this one?
It’s possible, just takes a lot more effort to get the heat necessary.
Pretty easy to forge weld with propane, little bit easier to forge weld with coal. When it comes to forge welding high carbon steel, propane is far superior since you don't run as much risk burning your steel. To me, it's more about isolation, when I'm doing hawks I prefer coal since it's easier to isolate sections vs propane where the whole thing gets hot. To me they both have strengths and weaknesses and compliment each other.
I’m with you
I bet you can cook a really nice brisket on one, and some hot dogs on the other. Nice!!! Reeeeeeal Nice.
There you go
Great video mate. The whole can a gas forge be used for forge welding thing is yes it can. Is it as easy as a solid fuel forge no it is not.
Precisely
both have their pluses. Just get the metal hot and hit it hard
Aye
How deep your fire pot is?
Is deep. The deepest maybe
Wait...Ix is a pirate skull....you were playing with dinasours.... Did you also reference an MTG set in your intro?
Mayhaps
you need to do some research on forced air propane or NG burners,they run hotter and more efficiently then The Venturi burner you are running
This was a comparison of these specific forges. If anyone wants to look into natural gas, I’ll send em your way
So it really just depends on your needs.And what your working with.
Yes. 100%
So is rhe coals not dangerous to burn?
Danger is relative. In a forge, most aspects are dangerous
Coal forge has a nice advantage though : no risk of exploding to your face.
Mayhaps. But then again, a proper gas forge should never do that
Best TV show ever I can't believe the movie killed him off
Yes
Can I ask a stupid question? I don't understand how your steel stock doesn't just transfer the heat from the forge all the way along its length. I always thought steel was good at conducting heat that's why if you have steel (albeit stainless) handles on pans that you leave on the stove it will burn your hand if you just grab it without some kind of glove. Yet I see you grab that piece of stock with no gloves on and no problem. I know you explained how the propane forge pushes excess heat out the front which can then heat the rest of the piece but I still don't get how the steel just doesn't transfer the heat by itself. 🤔
Honestly, it’s a bit of magic (albeit science) from my perspective. I didn’t really understand how that worked either until I was exposed to it. If I had to hazard a guess: since the air for the coal forge is fed from underneath, and hot air rises (path of least resistance) the hot spot is so consolidated that the speed at which the material heats up inside compared to the bit hanging outside isn’t enough to soak back between working time. I HAVE left a bar in the coal fire (on low air) for a bit, and it has soaked back enough to make the steel pretty damn hot. Again, I think it has more to do with the speed and size of the heat source. Hence, covering the material with a bit of “cold” coal acts as a barrier, since it’ll will pull heat out of the material before it runs up the rest of the bar.
Hello
Hi
I would imagine the debate is irrelevant when you consider your needs as a blacksmith, if you never have a need to forge weld something, then propane is more than enough, that being said, there are some blacksmiths that have larger "higher end" gas forges that get the job done, but like I always say, you use what you want and let the outsiders worry about the small things
Exactly
Umm, at 6:35 that does look forge weldable.
Camera exposure and lighting is a thing
For the algorithm
?
More comments = more recommendations ✌🏾️
What about carbon loss and retention in high carbon steel? Dont you loose more carbon in your steel with propane vs coal/coke.
You cannot loose carbon from steel at forging temperatures. The carbon % will not change unless it's heated to about 6,400°F. For years I've heard that scale is carbon being lost. It's not. It's simply the liquid steel surface becoming oxidized.
It's the same myth like coal fire heightening the carbon in the metal.
That doesn't happen at those low temperatures and over those short periods of time.
Well, unless you are using some nasty chemicals to speed up this process while lowering the necessary temperature for the reaction.
I believe the comments below express some ideas on that front
Ok was just wondering if it was true or not. I've heard both thoughts and wasn't sure either way. I know there's ways to add carbon to iron to make it a steel in a forge but wasn't sure if you could lose carbon as well.
Both undoubtedly heat steel but the coal forge is so much quieter. I just don't like the continual roar of a propane forge.
Right there with you
OK so hear me out. Lining he bottom of a Gas forge with coal?
And then what happened?
At the risk of sounding foolish, how is the propane forge not hot enough to forge weld?
It can absolutely be done with certain propane forges, but this “affordable” model doesn’t quite get to the temperatures I would need. Standard operating on this runs around 1800-1900 degrees. On mild steel, I’d want to push over 2000, or a nice yellow color.
Uhm... Actually: although you can control the heat better in a gas forge, it WILL burn your stock.
As it's not the heat that burns steel, it's heat plus oxygen and there's still some oxygen in those gas forges.
If your piece is directly under the burner you can still get hot spots even at lower forge temperatures. The old saying of too many irons in the fire comes to play.
@@mossyhollow3732 although this is a true and well known fact it has nothing to do with my argument.
That's like saying: "but in a coal forge, if you just put the metal on top of the fire it won't get hot enough to weld. " a bit of a non sequitur.
Darius, I tried following your account to see if you had any videos sharing your knowledge. Valuable stuff! What’s your background in smithing? (Metalwork?)
@@skullandspade I'm afraid not. I wish I would have learned some real trade, but I'm just an engineer. I'm blacksmithing for about 10 years now, but only as a hobby and to balance out the office job. I'm making tools and some decorative ironwork most of the time.
And some show smiting at something Americans would call renfair I guess?
@@Glaswalker1001 Well actually ... Brett should probably have told the newbies about the fundamentals of thermodynamics and crystalline structure of steel, just to make sure there's no magic left in it, and of course to utterly overwhelm them with necessary information ^^
Taste the meat not the heat
lol
Thanks for the education. Thumbs up and smooth sailing!
(Somehow I became unsubbed to your channel; never fear, that was unintentional and I'm back.)
Thank you!
Oh Wash :(
Sad
Kids.....
Yup
the intro is just him being schizo
Alright, which one of you said that