Three levels of color management (and 3 things colorists get wrong)
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2022
- Color management is one of the most important things for a colorist to understand, and understand well. Yet many colorists misunderstand it...
Recorded live at ResolveCon, discover:
- 3 levels of color management complexity
- The new role your scopes play in a color managed workflow
- The 3 main things people who “know” color management get wrong
- Why color management is NOT a creative limitation (and other things color management isn't)
- What to do if you don't know what color space your footage was shot in
And a lot more.
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Get my free Kodak 2383 film print LUT for DWG and ACES here:
procolor.ist/freelut
Get all of my freebies with my free Color Grading & Look Design Starter Pack!
procolor.ist/starter-kit
Check out my ebook, The Colorist's 10 Commandments:
procolor.ist/ebook - Розваги
Feels illegal to get all this info with such detail for free! Thanks Cullen!
Agreed!
True words! Specially in a time where everyone is trying to sell you something
It all starts with proper exposure in the field. Here I show a 1 minute "Power Grade" for VLOG for a whole video I did, all custom setup in Resolve: ua-cam.com/video/3cGK2Ugnk64/v-deo.html
Well it sounds like he just got done watching the color management video by Blackmagic Designs channel.
I’ve been a freelancing colorist for almost 12yrs now and using color management but this was so brilliant. Really updated my understanding. Thank you. If we ever run into each other I owe you a beer. Cheers 🍻
Black Magic should include a hyperlink to this video in the Color Management section of the Davinci Resolve manual. Truly amazing work explaining this confusing subject.
Thanks again Cullen!
Mate, your way of teaching is hands down the best I have come across. The knowledge you pass on is priceless. Thanks so much mate.
My background is as a DOP and I've been dabbling in DaVinci however the workflow has always left me stumped. After months of searching and endless butchered grades I have now seen the light. Your framework is precise and makes understanding all elements completely palatable. I remember the first time I discovered upstage lighting there was a distinct eureka moment in my career, exactly what this episode just offered me. Thank you for your time and content!
1:05:53 Note for CST OOTF.
Working space(DWG)->Display space(709)= (Forward OOTF on)
Camera space-> Working space (DWG)= (OOTF off)
I believe he said for the 2nd option, Reverse OOTF on.
Color knowledge: Master
Microphone-on-shirt knowledge: Room for improvement
😂 I'm also grateful the exposure of the camera that was on him was corrected as the session advanced
I have watched many UA-cam videos on colour management but this one clicked as it gives you a context that makes sense. Without doubt this is the most helpful session I have seen. Thank you Cullen.
I've watched a considerable amount of your material covering this topic, but this one really helped the concept sink in for me. Everything felt much more clear regarding the purpose, structure and workflow. Succinct, clear and right to the point. Nicely done.
This video is pure gold. Best explanation on color management I've seen/read so far. Thanks a lot Cullen!
My 80-year-old brain has been befuddled by the literal meanings of CM acronyms and labels for several years, but this post represents a breakthrough for me. I'm now limping like someone in their 70's and couldn't be happier.
Been down a color management rabbit hole and while after watching this video, I realized I actually have a good understanding of it, you still helped me get rid of any doubt. Sometimes you just need it spelled out for you one last time!
Color Management has been a game changer for me. Thank you for all you do!
I already felt quite familiar with most of color management - but this tutorial closed some of the gaps I still felt I had, without exactly knowing them.
AWESOME content and woth every minute of watching! Thanks so much, Cullen, for helping us getting better. And, I definitely need to get your DWG Kodak2383 FilmPrint emulation LUTS.
@@CullenKelly Hi Cullen, in the meantime, I got your 2 Kodak2383 LUTS (Aces, DWG) and played around a bit in DWG. Colors become awesome, and I like those much more than from the DR built-in LUT.
Anyway, and this would be a question for you, I observe some behavior regarding the gamma of your LUT I have noch explanation for:
Your LUT appears to limit the highlights very rigidly to 90% IRE, at the same time increasing the luminosity in the area between appr. 75-90 IRE.
In total, the result is like a compression of luminosity in the highlights, resulting in fine details in the highlights getting completely blown out.
I came across this effect when throwing the LUT at the end of a node tree in which I successfully managed to keep the fine lines of a curtain whith sun shining through - but with the LUT, the whole window looked more like an overexposed window, yet not being completely white.
Comparing the DR built-in LUT against it showed that the DR LUT keeps all those highlights and fine highlight gradations, but tends to have other flaws, such as massive color compressing (it's just Rec709), leading to color fringing and banding.
So, what am I doing wrong with your LUT I love so much for its colors?
I remember watching this live, and panicked when I couldn't find it on Casey Faris' channel. Then I had the brilliant idea to check the actual presenter's channel, and here I am. (I'm okay, I swear)
This is a wealth of knowledge and really opened my eyes to the Color Management usage benefits. To think I was grading every shot I had in a Scene Referred Format, by hand, one-by-one. Disgusting. I was a peasant.
Thanks so much Cullen, your presentation and Daria's were my favorites of the convention. Keep up the great work!
Thanks once again Cullen.
Clear, concise, and enlightening.
Cullen thank you so much. Im just 50% through the video but you already finally confirmed some things that i was kinda fuzzy about for years!
Thank you so much Cullen. I actually understand Color management and use it all the time now. Love the node based system over global settings.
Wow. Cullen. Thank you! This was precisely the workflow I needed for a project that came my way unexpectedly this week. Today was my first step into a color-managed workflow based on this formula you presented here. I incorporated a DWGI workflow with a mix of 6K braw footage alongside some standard REC709 material and it worked to create a fantastic result for my client. The controls felt SO much more feathery and precise and it was like you said, I was able to refer to my reference monitor while keeping an eye on the ‘instrument’ scopes. I think I will be working this way from now on! Kudos to you and your way of explaining this material!!
I was learning for a long time about CM, there are so many misleading informations on UA-cam and blogs. The truth is CM workflow is simple when you realize the concept about it! Thank you for this video, you've done great talk!
In fact, feel very HAPPY to get all this infos with such details for free ! Thanks again Cullen 😎
This is incredible. Thank you so much Cullen!
Thanks so much Cullen, this is an incredibly video, very generous to share. 🙏🏼
Absolutely amazing!!! Thank you very much !!! The best color management tutorials i have ever watched and finally understood! 😊
Love your approach to breaking down this topic. Thanks Cullen.
Many thanks Cullen for sharing this insights, very presice and clear to understand the advantages of color management !!
Incredible wealth of information..thanks for the talk Cullen 👏👏
Second time watching this presentation. Absolute gold!!! Thanks Cullen.
Just stumbled upon another great tutor with exceptional teaching approach am blessed with your tutorials more in depth teaching the project itself is so clear that i don't have to strain my eyes am grateful for that
Excellent presentation. Thanks
This is gold
Thank you SO MUCH for making this and uploading it. This was extremely helpful and well explained
Great video, so much solid information!
Thank you Cullen! This is gold! 👌
Always dishing out quality tutorials
This video was extremely eye-opening for me. Thanks, Cullen. It's tough to cut through all the mediocre lessons out there. This, however, is simply excellent.
Glad it was helpful!
Had a great time and wealth of knowledge
Thank you so much. As a DP It is not an easy task for me to grade. Now it got a lot easier.
I could write endless lines praising this video. I have been looking everywhere for a comprehensive explanation on project settings and CST, it turned out to be so darn simple! Cullen, you’re a hero, thank you a million!
I was looking forward that you add an CST to Rec.709 after updating Color management tab in project settings, as I was fiddling around DR while watching your video. The results I got were a bit weird. Anyway, I’ll try to figure it out myself. I’ll watch all your videos and keep an eye on any updates. Once again, thank you, Cullen. ❤
It's a bit hard to say what to do without seeing your project, but generally you only need a CST to 709 if you're not doing your color management on the project level.
@@CullenKelly it turned out that I’m outputting Rec709 twice so they got stacked, once in Color management and another via CST node. I’m totally new to all this, however, I’m able to absorb all the info you are providing us with. You have a unique way in simplifying things. Thanks again Cullen 😊
Edit: I understand that we should add CST Rec709 only if we tell DR not to manage colors in project settings/color management tab.
I don't do color management, but I subscribed just because you are better than a God at providing pure information gold to us plebes.
Awesome seminar.
Superb explanation. Many thanks!
Being on the journey of becoming a somewhat amateur colourist throughout this year, this was so much incredible information Cullen! Thank you. I finally understand color management and why I need to start working in Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate moving forward to streamline my workflow and colours. Going to binge the rest of your channel as well, appreciate you sharing all of this!
BEST THANK YOU❤
Hi Cullen, I really love your videos and your book. They are extremely helpful! I was just wondering if you might be able to do a video at some point on export settings. I know these vary project to project. But I am having issues with harsher contrast in my exports than in my viewer inside of Resolve. I am really liking the look of my project when utilizing the techniques you've shared. I just don't always get those same results in the render.
Very good video, thank you very much for sharing it
Tony's question about the OOTF etc. Cullen is absolutely correct in his explanation, but it should be noted that Resolve used to do this under the hood - and if you change a CST parameter it still does. Changing to a known camera color space - resolve will do it for you.
So in almost every situation, the correct option is checked or not checked automatically. People should only change that if they absolutely know that it's picking the wrong option, and what it will do to the luminance mapping.
I think I love you a little bit. lol.
Thanks so much for sharing and clearing up the confusion others and I myself caused!
Thanks for that! I'll take a look 😃👍
Amazing work, I wish I found you earlier! shout out to @DarrenMostyn for telling people to check out your colour management videos. I will be watching all your videos from now on.
amazing info, thank you
So good, thank you
Amaxing vidoe, Cullen. Would you possibly go into detail in a video about how you would colour manage in nodes for working with raw media from multiple cameras? Is this as simple as using a CST set to output DWG / Intermediate with the input being the colour and gamma or the camera? Or does it differ when using raw media?
Hey Cullen, thanks for posting all of this awesome knowledge. I'm working on implementing a color managed workflow at the node level and it's definitely a learning curve. I had one question: is there ever a scenario where you find yourself using a display referred workflow? I color a lot of NFL footage, and I find that color management absolutely nukes the saturation of the fields as well as some jersey colors. Anyways, thanks again - you've made me a much better colorist!
My mind is blown! I understand color management now. Wow what a way to work! So much faster and more efficient and simple really....... also just realized why "lut packs" that creates push are garbage (for the most part) I'm guessing 99% of them are not being used correctly, or the creator just saves out a lut on what they feel looks good from their particular camera without an understanding of color management....
It's good to set timeline working luminance to 10000 to prevent clipping at each node too. The only place you want to clip is at the very end in your DRT. Not sure if DaVinci DRT properly does it but ACES has different DRTs for different max luminance.
This is really outstanding info and I'm greatly appreciative you give it out for free. I was left confused on one point though. In this and other videos you say that the primary wheels are color space aware when using color management. This is contradictory to what Daria from BMD has said in official videos about the wheels and color workflow. Can you confirm one way or the other? The global wheel has always produced a more pleasing full scene exposure change for me than the offset wheel.
Impressive, thanks a lot.
I used to teach color management for print at Agfa back in the 90s. Color Management is definitely not a "new fangled" concept. For print, we had to deal with all of the steps outlined here, but then transform to a tiny CMYK gamut. The workflow was input (scanner or camera), monitor, printing device (CMYK printing press), color spectrophotometer, then back to press adjustments.
I used to start class by saying that I could teach a blind person to color manage, because in reality it's all math in the LAB color space - delta positioning data points inside the space. The workflow required a color spectrophotometer to measure, and a program I wrote to map the least destructive path from one gamut to another.
Anyway, I just wanted to reaffirm that CM is not new!
Use full section thanks Cullen!
Wow, I understand so much more.
Thanks Cullen. So incredibly helpful and clear ! Huge help. One question: With RAW clips from multiple cameras. Would you set the input colour space for the majority camera in the workflow (colour managed) settings, and set individual secondary clips with the node workflow (input colour space to DWG - DWG to Rec709 2.4). Doing it this way would you "bypass colour management" on a clip level?
Hope this makes sense? Appreciaye your input !
This is the brightest I‘ve seen Cullen yet
Question: now that we have color management that allows us to take basically any camera, transform it into a working space like DWG and then apply LUTs like your Elements ones or your 2383 and it really doesn’t matter what camera they were shot on, does this mean that all the old style camera specific Rec 709 LUTs are all now basically obsolete at this point?
What do we do if we are converting analog to digital. What would I chose for input? rec709?
Instant sub for this
Thank you!
i would love to hear your take on film texture (thick details?) and is it possible to simulate that in resolve. With HSV/HSL nodes the colors are there, grain can be added, so can halation/bloom, but to replicate the texture is something i have not found a satisfying method. Thanks for all the helpful videos 🙏
great stuff as usual Cullen.
you touched on something that I had to figure out on my last project.
DWG Color Managed workflow with fusion. I wonder how you would go about it exactly.
its so bad! i cant figure it out
@@SaxSpy check out ua-cam.com/video/xZWqe819qYk/v-deo.html that's where I found my 1st answer and workaround.
@@SaxSpy There isn’t really a way. I’ve found that you can do a CST to Gamma 2.4 or whatever you use for your output gamma,against your fusion comp and it will display the result of it correctly inside the edit page but it won’t help with how it looks inside the fusion page. There is a way to do something similar inside fusion but it looks really complex to me, based on a tutorial I’ve seen.
@@CullenKelly thx Cullen, greatly appreciated! Can't wait for it 🔥🔥🔥
@@CullenKelly thank you!
Thanks Cullen
This Dan Bernard guy is fantastic!
Hey Cullen thanks so much for this and for sharing your knowledge so freely! I’ve purchased your Luts and looking forward to adopting theme into my DWG workflow! Can you explain how keying and qualifiers work under the hood in a DWG working space? Are the qualifying tools (such as an HSL key for skin) designed for that working space or would you get better results in a display referred working space? I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong but I never feel like the qualifiers work as good in a scene referee working space. Any thoughts would be really helpful - thanks again.
I get to work with BRAW a lot and Ive been wondering where the RAW tab setting land in the pipeline? Like, if I open the raw tab, set it to 'clip' and make temp/tint/contrast adjustments and TURN ON the technical LUT it was shot under BEFORE I use any nodes...so when I use nodes, are the node adjustments I make being applied before that technical transform on the RAW tab or after?
Cullen ! Could you please help me ? I did filmed the footage on Canon R5C in Raw LT Canon log 2 . When I did use automatic colour management nothing happened in my timeline. The footage is still flat. What I’ve been doing wrong ?
I'm a DP, and this is the first time it actually made sense about how to grade in a colour managed workflow. I'll be able to communicate much easier now with the colorist, thanks! I have an additional question though. You do mention the whole essence of working with several different cameras with thus their respectively own color spaces in the Davinci Color Management, but so if this is the case, knowing that I have set up everything in the Settings page, what do I use as the Input Color Space? Or should I work in a more node-based workflow and set the CST's for each camera individually there? Thank you!
Great lecture!! Question, how do I apply your Color Managed lesson for a Monitoring LUT that I’d used on set with Gen 4 color space with BRAW? Thank you.
omg thx a lot !!
I use a similar analogy to dirt moving when talking about resolution - specifically when talking about increasing resolution. Imagine you have a 4X4 sandbox full to the top. You've been asked to make the sandbox 40X40, but you're not given more sand. What do you do? The only choice is to spread the sand out into the larger space. You may eventually reach a point where your sandbox is no longer distinguishable as a sandbox. It may just look like a yard with a thin layer of sand. Sure there are tools out there now that do a great job of super-rezzing images, but the final image will never have the image clarity of the original.
Despite what we see in movies, there is no way to clarify an image or video to the point where we can read the serial numbers off the side of a pistol. If the data is not there, it's just not there!
Getting smarter on color management with every video you put out.
thank you
Great tutorial. At 1:14:50 for changing color space for an individual clip my version does not have the Input Color Space option. Running 18.03.
@@CullenKelly The whole project was R3D but I brought in BRAW to check out switching Color Space on single clip in timeline as you showed. So for some RAW and R3D media it'll just do it on it's own? Also, love for you to take a deeper dive into the Camera Raw settings in Color and how they factor into the Color Space Management. Thanks for responding!
So do I understand correctly: Davinci YRGB Colormanaged set to custom (and maybe choosing the clip input via rightlick) is doing the same like Davinci YRGB with a Node with CST applied?
so should you use tone mapping for the first CST (from Log to Davinci Wide Gamut)? And why and when would this be necessary, thanks!
Just THX !
What is resolve con? It feels like a yearly meeting of the davinci resolve guys - which just makes you even better; you're so damn approved, that they hired you to do that job
do you have low-cost monitor recommendations
This is an amazing seminar thank you! I have a question. If using node based colour management with CST in Davinci YRGB, say from input Arri Log-C to output DWG, then DWG to Rec-709. When then moving onto the Deliver tab, what does one set the Color Space Tag + Gamma Tag in the video settings as? It is left to "Same As Project"?
Great question! If you are working in Rec.709 Gamma 2.4, "same as project should be fine.
Can you help me, I used to be able to put the CST at the END of the node tree and all the nodes BEFORE the CST will appear normalized like rec 709. But now when I do that all the nodes BEFORE the CST all still appear to be in log so I cant pull keys etc. What am i doing wrong?
Really appreciate all these resources you are providing. I have a question which I know is a can of worms…
I am working in Davinci wide gamut colour managed workflow. I am still getting a colour shift in addition to contrast shift on export. Is this just something I need to expect out of resolve? I have tried every conceivable combination of workflows and I still get a shift.
Speaking of getting stumped:
If I decide that I want to operate in a Node Based Color Management Pipeline what should my Project Settings Timeline Color Space and Output Color Space be? Does it matter? And Why?
Hi there. Can I get a good point in the right direction regarding the proper render settings (and/or any additional settings I may need to consider) for us Mac users? Settings that will allow for me to get an accurate, consistent final image that matches the grade?
Before using a color managed workflow, I used recommended settings described in a Post Process article... from like two years ago. But according to the author, those settings don’t work for color managed workflow. He said he was going to hopefully update the article, but I haven’t seen anything yet.
Plz make an Episode on how to Deliver HDR - Dolby Vision - DCI-P3 - Rec 709 from the same grade using the new method of 18.5 color mangment per timeline, also the old method of trimming and how to export all deliverbles. I really need that
Anyone to explain to me what the tone mapping toggle does? I noticed in the first transform he turned it on and when Cullen was setting up for a common 'working color space' (DWG) he turned it off. I'm only 30 minutes in and I don't know if he touched on that later one. I am a mix engineer for audio post in film and tv so I'm totally new to color, kindly pardon my ignorance.
Great information! Are you aware of a way to "convert" LUTs that were built in rec709 to DWG? I don't use LUTs too terribly much, but I do have some I'd like to use in a color managed workflow. I know you have some solutions you'd built as well but just wondering if there's a way to use Resolve's various transform options to get a reasonably accurate conversion.
well... I have same problems.. when i use two nodes first log to dwg and last dwg to rec.709. everything is ok. I can make correction as usual with wide dynamic range. But. when I use colormanagment... it looks like I am editing rec.709. what can be wrong?
40:00 This does not work for me. Im using ProRes 4444 exports recorded with Arri LogC3. I used the exact same config as you used in the video (but Arri Logc3 instead of the BlackMagic input color space) and when I save the project settings nothing changes and the clips still looks desaturated. I does work when I doo it with the Color Space Transform nodes tho...
Any idea of why I isn't working? I need to change any extra settings? Thanks!
Hi Sir Cullen. Please if you the time. Make short tutorial of how to color manage an Iphone footage. Thanks Sir.
Hey Cullen, I work in docuseries, and have some serious challenges finding the right CST settings. I am often given the make and model of the camera, but when I plug in what seems like it should work, it often looks very wrong. You could say it's a better starting place, but it doesn't look "right". How can I be certain that I am selecting the right input settings?
How do I correctly work on 3D EXR ACESCG Sequences within DWG (I don't want to convert my project to ACES).? 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Other than color management, would it be possible to get a "look" tuts? Or perhaps something like how to approach a look?