Won't be getting another KTM then. I won't abide bullshit software company marketing strategies on a motorcycle. Especially when there are still alternatives available.
KTM continues to embarrass itself with these 'optional' software packages. Do people really buy this top spec bike without all the bells and whistles? Do they pick and mix, buy the quickshifter but not engine braking control? Why would you do that? Making this stuff an add-on seems like a cheap, ugly cash grab. Not a good look.
I’ll definitely be buying them all. Highway riding without cruise, no way. Quick shifter, what fun! Rally Pack a must have according to several reviewers. I can afford it and if they were standard equipment the price would be higher I’m sure, but I feel for those less fortunate.
My first KTM was a new 1190 Adventure then a new 1290superduk gt, it's bad enough having to buy a seat because the standard one is too hard, I have had to do this on both bikes, and then pay extra for something that's on the bike, but you have to pay again, even if the its a safety improvement, I Will NEVER BUY ANOTHER KTM, I can't decide if I am being ripped of or having the piss taken out of me, or both.
@@martyn_g the consideration would be value for money and user experience. Buying a brand new motorcycle is much more than the utility of the vehicle - this is why brands put so much effort into show rooms and marketing.
@@cyphertheory Maybe you missed my point. If the 890 is the better bike, then you buy the better bike. If the Tenere puts a smile on your face, more then the 890, then you buy that. If you smile more when ride the 890, you buy that. But if you prefer the 890, but don’t buy it because you don’t want to pay for the tech pack, that’s just silly.
I'll never buy a bike (or car) with subsrciptions for stuff that is allready on the bike that I payed for, and have to subscribe to keep using it. NEVER. I will pass this, and hope everyone will. That would teach those companies not to try and scam the customers.
"Demo mode" 😞 Some marketing genius thought "well let's give them everything for the first 1500miles/kms, then shut if off" Oh I hate this. And it only shows what money grabbers they are. What's next, subscription model cruise control? Just buy it for the summer holiday trip?
Was interested right up until you explained how the microtransactions work. Wow. Screw you KTM, you've just lost a potential customer. Thanks for the vid, Bob!
Exactly! Quickshifter hardware is already present either way, but to use it we need to pay extra?! More and more manufacturers have started to adopt this and that's kinda frustrating tbh.
@@ucokrizki7015 All the hardware is already implemented (read adding weight) on the bike already, good luck when it fails even when you never paid for the software in the first place x)!!! (this happens to farmers as well, they are being skinned alive by these microtransaction styled addons)
A quickshifter sensor weighs nothing. 50 grams maybe. And even if abs, Tc, the quickshifter fails, you can still ride the bike, you just have some warnings on the dash..
No I think it’s total BS that these manufacturers are doing this. It’s the same in the auto industry now. These things came stock on the previous generation but now they are gonna charge you more for the same features. Complete bullshit
It’s amazing how just a few design tweaks took this bike from something that was retina meltingly ugly,to something that actually looks pretty good. I’m seriously considering this bike! I really like it. And I liked the comment about “struggling to ride across a gravel parking lot”! That made me feel a lot better!
Rade Garage sorted that out...buy old stock cheap,upgrade with the extra cash!(there was 790 Adventures going for only £7495 up until this summer-bargain).
I ride ktm 950, Im in looking for a new bike, I was considering 890, but they are just too damn ugly, but as now, as you say, just a small changes, and 890r looks great!
@@dax4812 19/17" wheels on a base model 790/890 Adventure would look better, as would a Rade Garage /Aurora top fairing conversion...and a Sharon exhaust?
They should have changed the headlight cluster too. The only solution for getting better off road is to learn how to do it and get out there and do it!
They did good with the visual improvements, but the whole ZERO approach to tech upgrades isn't something I necessarily agree with. All those extra things increases the initial price of the bike. I'd much rather have the possibility of buying the bike without anything pre-fitted at a much lower price. Great video Bob!
OMG what marketing genius came up with that; pay loads for a new bike, get used to it and then have the features disabled until you pay more!?! WTF. What next, the engine power turns down and you have to pay to have full power again? How about they refund you if you elect to disable the features you don't want then? Would they do this on a feature that had a safety aspect to it or made the bike easier to control? Like you said, this is hardware, your not buying a skin for an avatar in a game.
I think it is reasonable to charge for software such as a navigation package, digital road book etc. Where the software has a specific function and you can choose another solution if you do not want the KTM one such as a bolt on GPS. However unlocking hardware you already own is a red line for me. Think if you had to pay to unlock hardware functionality in your mobile or laptop such as max screen resolution, longer battery life or faster processor!
I totally agree when the hardware is on the bike eg quick shifter. The satnav should be marketed differently, eg you pay a subscription for updates and traffic info
KTM is still better than most software companies that charge yearly subscription fees and you don’t own the application. Or John Deere where you pay yearly just to operate their machine and can’t repair it yourself. It’s just the way things are going.
You guys in U.K and Europe are lucky to get all the latest and greatest bikes. Here in India all we have is the 390 as the best offering by ktm. As per the optional extras it looks like it's a good time to become a hacker😂
Oh HELL NO. That would annoy the feck out of me. It's one thing having optional extras for bikes, but another when they are ACTUALLY FITTED to the bike but turned off. Imagine buying a 2nd hand bike and thinking "Oh, it's got a quick-shifter fitted!" only to discover the original owner never got it activated and you have to pay 360 GBP for it! Nope, I do not like that idea at all. If it's fitted to the bike, it should work. Otherwise, don't fit it.
This kind of thing makes me embarrassed that I've ever stuck up for KTM when it comes to talking about cost. This is a big facepalm moment for me and will definitely stop me from buying any KTM product in the future.
Love the negativity towards KTM in these comments. Pissing myself laughing at people who say they won't buy one because of the way it looks etc. Great, thanks. That just leaves more on the shop floor for the rest of us to purchase, that know just how good looking they are BEHIND the bars,. You know, when you are riding it, not sitting at the coffee shop looking at it. The Software idea is a good one. You try before you buy. There might be somethings in the package you don't need or want and will never use to their full potential. On the other hand there might be something that you think you don't want and then when you try it you actually like it. So you keep what you want and not what you don't and will never use. At least all the hardware is there ready to go. Take for example Cruise Control, I didn't have it on my 2019, therefore I did not have the controller on the handlebars. When I got it activated I had to buy a new cluster as well as pay for the software to be activated. I thought that was steep, but when I am in the Outback on the long straight stretches of tracks/roads - it is worth every penny spent. Some people don't go far enough or hard enough to need all the bells and whistles.
I have tried multiple times to buy a KTM but the pricing structure to unlock all the electronics makes them a poor value. The dealers in my area also gouge their customers with ridiculous fees.
I refuse to purchase any vehicle that requires a subscription for features where the hardware was already purchased. Blurs the line too much between what the consumer owns and has rights over, versus what the manufactures own and get to control. They can use these tricks as ways to lock you out of hardware you own to force you to upgrade. Especially if they start limiting your purchases to X amount of miles or years.
It appears Ktm is addressing the buffeting issue by change the the windshield and front plastics to change air flow. I wonder if the new plastics and windshield will fit my 2022?
To be honest, I have been looking at the ktms for years, My first bike was a duke 620. But for what ever reason, I just cant bring my self to part money for a KTM. These days they arnt even the cheaper option. the yamahas have that tied up imo. Its a no for me.
i like the mods however, KTM would have consider some more colors for their Product ranges. ORANGE combination with Blue tank???? !!! why they are not changing the healight? personally i feel Mixed reaction....
I had quick shifter on my 2020 790R. At the 1000km service / software update I lost it. Dealer said some bikes come with it but lose it on update as mine did. KTM obviously was testing the market to see if they could sell more upgrades by giving a taste to begin with. I learned to quick shift as a child. I don’t need a computer to do it for me. So I do without.
I own a 2022 890 adv & I don't care about any of the extra tech. I thought I was going to buy the entire tech pack but after 2,500 miles in 2 months - I haven't once thought I needed any of it to Make the bike better.
Your vid seems misleading for an Adventure R model. You show Xplor Pro Closed Cartridge Cone Valve forks which, correct me if I'm wrong, are only on the R Rally model. Quite a different and more expensive model. What else might be misleading?
The demo pack is a big BS, because you have everything already on the bike and all they need to do is to check a box in the software. Like here you go have a quickshifter that you can not use.
The ‘buy the tech options’ approach makes no sense. They’ve already lost their R&D $$$$ and they’ve already put physical things like the quick shifter on the bike. If nobody buys the tech package they’ve not monetised anything.
It is perhaps the best performance for the money ADV out there and remains so even if you add all the electronics upcharges. They could add all the stuff as standard , jack up the price getting rid of the option to complain about it, and people would be still be saying what an amazing bike for the money it is. The Triumph 900 Tiger Rally Pro is over $17,100 which will still be more than a 'loaded' KTM once they announce the price. I added the quick shifter and cruise to my 2020 790 and would add the full package to the 2023 no hesitation.
Hopefully they’ll be people hacking the software for a quarter of the price can’t be dealing with greedy dealers plenty of people do it in the car world nowadays
I've seen the argument that building all the bikes the same makes for more cost effective production but rest assured that's not really how it works and any savings are not being passed on to the buyer. The accessories cost the same to make if they come bolted to the bike from factory or added by the owner as an accessory later. The extra cost of the additional switches and physical kit are baked into the base price of the bike which makes it more expensive than it otherwise would have been. It's effectively charging for accessories up front that they would have sold separately otherwise then charging to make them actually function. I'd argue that the idea that it gives you the option to experience the accessories before buying doesn't really hold water either. You've already paid for the physical parts in the base price so anybody who doesn't pay to make them functional is a sucker who's paid for a bunch of useless parts to be bolted to their bike from the factory. It's a win-win for the manufacturer who chargers a higher base price to the person who wants a no frills bike and has to pay for the accessories anyway or they get to sell a fully featured bike to the person who opts for the tech pack, either way, higher margins.
Yeah nah if money isn’t an issue I’d just pay for the extra software at point of sale. Haggle for the best price and frame the receipt, hang it on a garage wall.😂. Don’t know why they charge extra or don’t offer a bundle deal when you buy the bike. When I bought my car I just paid the extra to get the model with the sunroof which makes sense in Australia 🇦🇺- helps with resale value as well. No maté that’s the price with top of the range sunroof model- take it or leave it!
Initially my reaction was the same as most commenters - it's already on the bike, why I am paying for access. But then one person pointed out that building all the bikes the same is cost efficient for the manufacturer and by offering a trial you can test to see what options your really want - something you could not do if you were ordering as upgrades in the current dealer/sales model. What is being offered still allows you to opt for the base model (and the save your money) or select only those options you really want, say just cruise control, or buy the whole package at at price that is less than the total of the individual components. It may seem like a manipulative marketing scheme at first but viewed on the way I suggest, you the consumer have full control of what options you put on the bike and the total cost. Then again, as others have noted, some smart cookie will figure out a hack and make it all free. I, for one, am interested to see how the marketplace receives this sales strategy.
One thing my 2020 790 needed is the wire from the ignition into the wiring loom under the tank. There wasn’t enough slack in mine and got ripped apart which stalled my bike mid turn and the of course set off the imobil antennae. Left me stranded. Pushed the bike 2 plus miles to tarmac to get towed.
@@jackolbean4765 We have yet to see. From what we hear the China plant is state of the art and we know that Chinese can manufacture amazing things when that is the goal, but the stigma attached to 'things' out of China will be hard for them to get around. Chances are the bikes will be even better than from Austria, but that will all depend on the quality control they implement there.
We were very happy to see this new look. Trust that we'll be all over this bike to see what needs working out. We have seen one in person at the KTM rally in Idaho and it definitely looks the part.
I like the changes/upgrades for 2023. As a professional product manager in tech industries I don’t have an issue paying for capabilities I want. With the demo mode, you get to try before you buy, and only the people that want those capabilities are paying for it. If that business model doesn’t appeal to someone, more power to them. Shop elsewhere. The great news is there are plenty of compelling choices.
KTM have really screwed the pouch on this. What a bad decision! Fire everyone! Who the F wants to deal with all this? Not the idiot who doesn’t know computers at my local KTM dealership! All the software should be included OR charge more and include it. You add insult to injury by adding all of this tech and then you want us to shop for each item WHEN ALL WE WANT TO DO IS RIDE!!!
Nice vid, but I am afraid that your cone valve front suspension shown here comes stock only on the Rally. After test riding a few used 790's (they all rode different) I made a purchase on a new 2023 890 ADV R. The tech pack was $1,000.00 installed, and decided that If I can afford a new 890R, then I can afford the tech pack. There is absolutely no comparison between the used 790'rs and a new 890r. The fully adjustable upgraded suspension and the sick power band were enough for me to spend a couple more grand to step up to the 890R. I would have been fine with the 790R, had I not test rode the 890R. I'm super stoked that I stepped up instead of being the cheap bastard that I normally am, LOL. Better to have it (new bike, upgraded power, performance and suspension) and not need it-than to need it and not have it. Buy once, cry once. ☮
Owning a Norden 901 with everything except rally mode standard, the fact that KTM is upselling cruse, quick shift, MTC, etc is B.S. That should all absolutely come standard on a bike at this price point. Heck even the "rally mode" upgrade at like $200 USD (or so, I forget) is B.S. because it's software, it's literally just a download and you have it, the fact that they can offer 1000k with it all on gives up the game, it's a grift. Motorcycles aren't iPhones and if this is where things are going with bikes, you're literally going to kill motorcycling by doing it. It's a small and shrinking market already, if "apps" are the hill bike companies want to die on... get your bike now, because the future sucks.
OK.. I used to work in the music industry and the number of people who used "hacked software" to make music was astounding and cost the industry millions of dollars. Just because its software doesn't mean it hasn't had a shit load or R&D behind it to make to viable so why is it valued at anything less than a tank bag or a pair of gloves. Admittedly, these prices seem a little steep but BMW, Porsche and every other car manufacturer charge for add ons so why not KTM ?. If you don't need it, don't flipping buy it. The offside of this is knowing motorbike people, we want all the bells and whistles. Its just our expectations.. So where do you go ?
Like what are they gonna do about cruise control? Have a switch there that works for 1000k then just turns into a nothing button? That's fkn stupid, why produce the product, mold a switch, make the assembly, and be like, gee, I hope people buy the continued use of the plastic thing we made and spent mad money on after that first 1000k! That's just insane! You watch what happens, dealers will tack on the what, $500 - $700 cost for the full upgrade and just knock the price of the bike up accordingly. I mean honestly, if that's what it's all about, a few hundo, just make the stuff standard and charge what you think it's worth KTM, don't play head games. That'll just piss us off.
Tesla adds downloaded upgrades all the time. Even as second owner you will get fun and or functional updates. Free. Apple defined one of my older iPhones affecting its performance, I thought my phone was broken and updated to newer one. Year later Apple settled with USA customers over fraudulent obsolescence downloads to boost upgrade sales. In KTMs MBA C-suites pursuit of profit they have lost my wallet. If that means I will eventually be riding ‘vintage’ bikes, so be it.
The Demo mode scam stopped me form buying a KTM. I bought a new Honda with DCT because I was curious about it. I had a V-Strom before that. KTM are nice bikes, but I figure if they are going to rip you off right out of the gate, they are not going get any better once they have your money too. The whole motorcycle sales and service industry has just gotten really shady lately. Recently they started shorting inventory, by intentionally holding units at the import impound to keep the showroom lean so they can justify a price squeeze. Brand name demand destruction is not even a consideration. So we'll see who wins in that strategy.
Options installed but not available unless you send KTM more money, LOL.. making one of the most expensive bikes even more expensive. Reading this help me decide on NOT buying a 2022 KTM 300. I was very high in KTM until learning this. Just put a price on it up front. 1000% disagree with this software pay option system. Let them do this and it gets much worse 5 years from now. It will be on every bike in their line up.
Better charge for the full price instead of misleading with price tags…. Other brands are more realistic about that.. I have a 790 duke 2019 and if I have to pay more just for some stuff already install I probably would change brands.
I have recently purchased a KTM SAS .. got the tech pack thrown in! It’s all good stuff.. nothing different to any other brand, you have to pay for add ons BMW are by far the worse.
Yes, it’s not cheap. But here in Australia a GSA is well past $37K. This bike with the tech pack is about $28K - and we know what the better bike is off road.
No matter how they try to sell it, you will be paying for something twice. Does anyone really think KTM would let you drive away without already having paid for everything? NFW
For me paying to enable software features is sort of fair enough, but paying to enable hardware which is already fitted is not on. Even worse would be the latest trend in car manufacturers trying to scam you out of a subscription to sometjing that isn't a service - $10 a month for your heated seats to work, $15 a month for sport mode.. Complete prefoeteering scam that would stop me buying the model completely.
What a load of crap. The bike comes with all the options and it turns off after you bought it?! Those ktm folks are taking the piss! I wouldn’t buy one on principle.
I would go further and make all the comfortable features by subscription with payment every month! How it has become fashionable to do software manufacturers!
It’s ridiculous they try to charge for all these extras. My dealer activated my quickshifter+ for free and I would have been furious had I paid for it because it’s not very smooth.
It would be one thing if the bike was an open system with competitors offering a variety of software packages but in a closed system where the software is really an adjunct to the product rather than being the product I think it's is a misguided sales strategy to make people pay more for already embedded function. It's almost as bad as what BMW is doing with subscriptions.
not a fan of paying to access something that i physically paid for. maybe we should kick software out of vehicles. this annoyed me in gaming and pc use, and it is spreading. perhaps people will be activating these things without paying (voiding warranty) , like we do with other software hidden behind paywalls
Luckily the 890 adventure is just too plain ugly for me to consider (a bit shallow, i know) the pay to get what already came with the bike is just the final straw.. I certainly hope this isn't a trend that other manufacturers will adopt!
so the hardware is already on the bike, but they're locking the software behind paywall like BMW does. if the hardware is already on the bike, it means they already charge us for those hardware right? and if we refuse to pay the extra basically we paid for useless junks to be put on our bikes. how is this legal in EU?
Yup, I was also very interested in getting a KTM up until I saw the part about paying for the software options just to enable the hardware that was also built into the bike and factored into the sale price. So, yeah, screw you KTM and your shady and annoying biz tactics!
Like for real, who's not gonna get the all option bike? like seriously? Nobody! So just sell the thing with the options at the price, screw this "lets tease them with all the things everyone is definitely going to want" BS. I want to meet the executive who thought of this just to tell them how stupid this idea is.
Paying extra to unlock sofware only features is one thing but but if I'm paying for a bike with a quick shifter it should work. If I did'nt want to pay extra for it then would'nt want the non functioning hardware on the bike in the first place.
what a fail 2:53 most people like this bike because of that vision of front wheel , that benefits about not have to "imagine" how wheel reactions to obstacles, now it is just like all the rest trail bikes, a lot of stupid falls in off road because you don't what is happening and how to correct. I hope they keep doing left design on a 790r
That software package stuff is absolutely astounding, you have to pay for stuff the bike already comes with? terrible, really terrible, hopefully people will figure out how to hack it
The demo mode is like getting married. You have all the features during the engagement but after the wedding, certain features get turned off. Good luck with the resale on those bikes. That is a hard NO for me.
Honestly it sounds like your selling the bike. " Better " this and "upgraded " that. Is it really better, or an upgrade? I guess that's a bit like beauty.
The first 200 people to answer your last question get answer free but after that one must tap a button and pay .99 cents to give there 2 cents on the issue ........
Why is it controversial to let us try something for free and decide if we want to pay for it. In previous years, you couldn’t try the features before buying it
Won't be getting another KTM then. I won't abide bullshit software company marketing strategies on a motorcycle. Especially when there are still alternatives available.
So you try all the extras free for a while and then you have to pay to keep them coming ! Sounds like marriage …
Lol..heard that!
Just marry the bike, be cheaper, you can ride the bike whenever you feel the urge.
+1 Andrew!
;-)
😜🤣👍
I don't care about any other feature but quickshifter and cruise control should never be behind a paywall in this day and age.
KTM continues to embarrass itself with these 'optional' software packages. Do people really buy this top spec bike without all the bells and whistles? Do they pick and mix, buy the quickshifter but not engine braking control? Why would you do that? Making this stuff an add-on seems like a cheap, ugly cash grab. Not a good look.
I’ll definitely be buying them all. Highway riding without cruise, no way. Quick shifter, what fun! Rally Pack a must have according to several reviewers. I can afford it and if they were standard equipment the price would be higher I’m sure, but I feel for those less fortunate.
My first KTM was a new 1190 Adventure then a new 1290superduk gt, it's bad enough having to buy a seat because the standard one is too hard, I have had to do this on both bikes, and then pay extra for something that's on the bike, but you have to pay again, even if the its a safety improvement, I Will NEVER BUY ANOTHER KTM,
I can't decide if I am being ripped of or having the piss taken out of me, or both.
Bike - yes, attitude to customers - no! #bugged
flat out one of the main reasons I would not consider buying a KTM is the software package model
If you’re missing out on possibly the better bike based on principle, that’s your choice
@@martyn_g the consideration would be value for money and user experience. Buying a brand new motorcycle is much more than the utility of the vehicle - this is why brands put so much effort into show rooms and marketing.
@@cyphertheory Maybe you missed my point. If the 890 is the better bike, then you buy the better bike. If the Tenere puts a smile on your face, more then the 890, then you buy that. If you smile more when ride the 890, you buy that. But if you prefer the 890, but don’t buy it because you don’t want to pay for the tech pack, that’s just silly.
@@martyn_g very presumptive of you that I both missed your point and that my opinion is incorrect.
I'll never buy a bike (or car) with subsrciptions for stuff that is allready on the bike that I payed for, and have to subscribe to keep using it. NEVER.
I will pass this, and hope everyone will. That would teach those companies not to try and scam the customers.
"Demo mode" 😞
Some marketing genius thought "well let's give them everything for the first 1500miles/kms, then shut if off" Oh I hate this. And it only shows what money grabbers they are.
What's next, subscription model cruise control? Just buy it for the summer holiday trip?
Was interested right up until you explained how the microtransactions work. Wow. Screw you KTM, you've just lost a potential customer. Thanks for the vid, Bob!
Exactly! Quickshifter hardware is already present either way, but to use it we need to pay extra?! More and more manufacturers have started to adopt this and that's kinda frustrating tbh.
This isn’t new(and I’m not saying I think it’s ok). You should have been lost years ago 😅
@@Tinker3504 yaa I noticed this years back in European countries mainly. But where I live, this is a fairly new thing and hence the frustration lol.
U will surely be able to get them unlocked by some expert bike mechanic later down the road for sure. They will figure it out eventually
KTM are no charity..
Demo mode seems pretty odd. Thankfully someone will develop jailbreak softwear to unlock it cheaply….
Then get busted if you have to take it to a dealer for repairs.
@@alexapostoli569 yes, and as it’s a KTM it’s likely to be visiting the dealer for repairs quite often 🤣
I would be absolutely furious to look at a quickshifter on my bike knowing that it's locked behind a paywall.
Yeah especially after paying for the hardware...
Thanks, I'll stick to my DEMO mode for the next 30K km on my XR650L then.
No one asked you
@@licenciadoleopoldocanoloza1144 Bob asked at the end of the video
yeah, it is hard to beat durability and simplicity, and as much as I Love Big and Bigger Bike, I Love smaller one cos it cannot just go wrong.
@@ucokrizki7015 All the hardware is already implemented (read adding weight) on the bike already, good luck when it fails even when you never paid for the software in the first place x)!!! (this happens to farmers as well, they are being skinned alive by these microtransaction styled addons)
A quickshifter sensor weighs nothing. 50 grams maybe. And even if abs, Tc, the quickshifter fails, you can still ride the bike, you just have some warnings on the dash..
Where does this SW BS stop? How long before KTM goes the way of Microsoft model and charges a YEARLY SOFTWARE LICENSE FEE 🙂
No I think it’s total BS that these manufacturers are doing this. It’s the same in the auto industry now. These things came stock on the previous generation but now they are gonna charge you more for the same features. Complete bullshit
Software should be priced in to bike.
And every single bike would then be 1000€ more expensive
Does the new display keep rain out ;) ? Any focus on improving reliability of all the known issues?
That’s a valid point!!
It’s amazing how just a few design tweaks took this bike from something that was retina meltingly ugly,to something that actually looks pretty good. I’m seriously considering this bike! I really like it. And I liked the comment about “struggling to ride across a gravel parking lot”! That made me feel a lot better!
Rade Garage sorted that out...buy old stock cheap,upgrade with the extra cash!(there was 790 Adventures going for only £7495 up until this summer-bargain).
I ride ktm 950, Im in looking for a new bike, I was considering 890, but they are just too damn ugly, but as now, as you say, just a small changes, and 890r looks great!
@@dax4812 19/17" wheels on a base model 790/890 Adventure would look better, as would a Rade Garage /Aurora top fairing conversion...and a Sharon exhaust?
They should have changed the headlight cluster too. The only solution for getting better off road is to learn how to do it and get out there and do it!
They did good with the visual improvements, but the whole ZERO approach to tech upgrades isn't something I necessarily agree with. All those extra things increases the initial price of the bike. I'd much rather have the possibility of buying the bike without anything pre-fitted at a much lower price. Great video Bob!
OMG what marketing genius came up with that; pay loads for a new bike, get used to it and then have the features disabled until you pay more!?! WTF. What next, the engine power turns down and you have to pay to have full power again? How about they refund you if you elect to disable the features you don't want then? Would they do this on a feature that had a safety aspect to it or made the bike easier to control? Like you said, this is hardware, your not buying a skin for an avatar in a game.
I think it is reasonable to charge for software such as a navigation package, digital road book etc. Where the software has a specific function and you can choose another solution if you do not want the KTM one such as a bolt on GPS. However unlocking hardware you already own is a red line for me. Think if you had to pay to unlock hardware functionality in your mobile or laptop such as max screen resolution, longer battery life or faster processor!
I totally agree when the hardware is on the bike eg quick shifter. The satnav should be marketed differently, eg you pay a subscription for updates and traffic info
KTM is still better than most software companies that charge yearly subscription fees and you don’t own the application. Or John Deere where you pay yearly just to operate their machine and can’t repair it yourself. It’s just the way things are going.
THIS IS AWFUL... KTM NEVER
You guys in U.K and Europe are lucky to get all the latest and greatest bikes. Here in India all we have is the 390 as the best offering by ktm.
As per the optional extras it looks like it's a good time to become a hacker😂
It's only a matter of time.
Oh HELL NO. That would annoy the feck out of me. It's one thing having optional extras for bikes, but another when they are ACTUALLY FITTED to the bike but turned off. Imagine buying a 2nd hand bike and thinking "Oh, it's got a quick-shifter fitted!" only to discover the original owner never got it activated and you have to pay 360 GBP for it! Nope, I do not like that idea at all. If it's fitted to the bike, it should work. Otherwise, don't fit it.
This kind of thing makes me embarrassed that I've ever stuck up for KTM when it comes to talking about cost.
This is a big facepalm moment for me and will definitely stop me from buying any KTM product in the future.
Love the negativity towards KTM in these comments. Pissing myself laughing at people who say they won't buy one because of the way it looks etc.
Great, thanks. That just leaves more on the shop floor for the rest of us to purchase, that know just how good looking they are BEHIND the bars,. You know, when you are riding it, not sitting at the coffee shop looking at it.
The Software idea is a good one. You try before you buy. There might be somethings in the package you don't need or want and will never use to their full potential. On the other hand there might be something that you think you don't want and then when you try it you actually like it. So you keep what you want and not what you don't and will never use. At least all the hardware is there ready to go. Take for example Cruise Control, I didn't have it on my 2019, therefore I did not have the controller on the handlebars. When I got it activated I had to buy a new cluster as well as pay for the software to be activated. I thought that was steep, but when I am in the Outback on the long straight stretches of tracks/roads - it is worth every penny spent. Some people don't go far enough or hard enough to need all the bells and whistles.
I have tried multiple times to buy a KTM but the pricing structure to unlock all the electronics makes them a poor value. The dealers in my area also gouge their customers with ridiculous fees.
Your full of shit. The structure is simple. Pick what you want or get everything. It's not complotted. All dealers gouge customers with fees.
wont be long before some one can over ride that tech pack for a couple of hundred quid
I refuse to purchase any vehicle that requires a subscription for features where the hardware was already purchased. Blurs the line too much between what the consumer owns and has rights over, versus what the manufactures own and get to control. They can use these tricks as ways to lock you out of hardware you own to force you to upgrade. Especially if they start limiting your purchases to X amount of miles or years.
It appears Ktm is addressing the buffeting issue by change the the windshield and front plastics to change air flow. I wonder if the new plastics and windshield will fit my 2022?
To be honest, I have been looking at the ktms for years, My first bike was a duke 620. But for what ever reason, I just cant bring my self to part money for a KTM. These days they arnt even the cheaper option. the yamahas have that tied up imo. Its a no for me.
i like the mods however, KTM would have consider some more colors for their Product ranges. ORANGE combination with Blue tank???? !!! why they are not changing the healight? personally i feel Mixed reaction....
The most important thing you need to know before buying this bike is that it is made in China.
100% it is going to give you headache someday!
I had quick shifter on my 2020 790R. At the 1000km service / software update I lost it. Dealer said some bikes come with it but lose it on update as mine did. KTM obviously was testing the market to see if they could sell more upgrades by giving a taste to begin with.
I learned to quick shift as a child. I don’t need a computer to do it for me. So I do without.
I own a 2022 890 adv & I don't care about any of the extra tech. I thought I was going to buy the entire tech pack but after 2,500 miles in 2 months - I haven't once thought I needed any of it to Make the bike better.
Paying to have the right to continue to use software ALREADY installed on a bike.... Is the reason I WON'T buy this bike!!!
Your vid seems misleading for an Adventure R model. You show Xplor Pro Closed Cartridge Cone Valve forks which, correct me if I'm wrong, are only on the R Rally model. Quite a different and more expensive model. What else might be misleading?
The demo pack is a big BS, because you have everything already on the bike and all they need to do is to check a box in the software. Like here you go have a quickshifter that you can not use.
The ‘buy the tech options’ approach makes no sense. They’ve already lost their R&D $$$$ and they’ve already put physical things like the quick shifter on the bike. If nobody buys the tech package they’ve not monetised anything.
It is perhaps the best performance for the money ADV out there and remains so even if you add all the electronics upcharges. They could add all the stuff as standard , jack up the price getting rid of the option to complain about it, and people would be still be saying what an amazing bike for the money it is. The Triumph 900 Tiger Rally Pro is over $17,100 which will still be more than a 'loaded' KTM once they announce the price. I added the quick shifter and cruise to my 2020 790 and would add the full package to the 2023 no hesitation.
Hopefully they’ll be people hacking the software for a quarter of the price can’t be dealing with greedy dealers plenty of people do it in the car world nowadays
I've seen the argument that building all the bikes the same makes for more cost effective production but rest assured that's not really how it works and any savings are not being passed on to the buyer. The accessories cost the same to make if they come bolted to the bike from factory or added by the owner as an accessory later. The extra cost of the additional switches and physical kit are baked into the base price of the bike which makes it more expensive than it otherwise would have been. It's effectively charging for accessories up front that they would have sold separately otherwise then charging to make them actually function.
I'd argue that the idea that it gives you the option to experience the accessories before buying doesn't really hold water either. You've already paid for the physical parts in the base price so anybody who doesn't pay to make them functional is a sucker who's paid for a bunch of useless parts to be bolted to their bike from the factory. It's a win-win for the manufacturer who chargers a higher base price to the person who wants a no frills bike and has to pay for the accessories anyway or they get to sell a fully featured bike to the person who opts for the tech pack, either way, higher margins.
That direction heads down a slippery slope in regards to consumers getting jammed in general for many products.
Nice one Bob. 👍
Having a quick shifter fitted but it not work after 1500 miles is bonkers and 300 quid to re-trigger the software is steep 😔
Totally agree. And if we don’t want it, it’s a material waste, a fuel waste to carry when not required and an environmental nonsense
Yeah nah if money isn’t an issue I’d just pay for the extra software at point of sale. Haggle for the best price and frame the receipt, hang it on a garage wall.😂. Don’t know why they charge extra or don’t offer a bundle deal when you buy the bike.
When I bought my car I just paid the extra to get the model with the sunroof which makes sense in Australia 🇦🇺- helps with resale value as well. No maté that’s the price with top of the range sunroof model- take it or leave it!
Initially my reaction was the same as most commenters - it's already on the bike, why I am paying for access. But then one person pointed out that building all the bikes the same is cost efficient for the manufacturer and by offering a trial you can test to see what options your really want - something you could not do if you were ordering as upgrades in the current dealer/sales model. What is being offered still allows you to opt for the base model (and the save your money) or select only those options you really want, say just cruise control, or buy the whole package at at price that is less than the total of the individual components. It may seem like a manipulative marketing scheme at first but viewed on the way I suggest, you the consumer have full control of what options you put on the bike and the total cost. Then again, as others have noted, some smart cookie will figure out a hack and make it all free. I, for one, am interested to see how the marketplace receives this sales strategy.
Food for thought, indeed...
We and our customers were very happy to see this new look. Trust that we'll be all over this bike to see what needs working out.
One thing my 2020 790 needed is the wire from the ignition into the wiring loom under the tank. There wasn’t enough slack in mine and got ripped apart which stalled my bike mid turn and the of course set off the imobil antennae. Left me stranded. Pushed the bike 2 plus miles to tarmac to get towed.
are these going to be made in China? will that help the reliability issues already plaguing recent versions of this bike?
@@jackolbean4765 We have yet to see. From what we hear the China plant is state of the art and we know that Chinese can manufacture amazing things when that is the goal, but the stigma attached to 'things' out of China will be hard for them to get around. Chances are the bikes will be even better than from Austria, but that will all depend on the quality control they implement there.
We were very happy to see this new look. Trust that we'll be all over this bike to see what needs working out. We have seen one in person at the KTM rally in Idaho and it definitely looks the part.
I like the changes/upgrades for 2023. As a professional product manager in tech industries I don’t have an issue paying for capabilities I want. With the demo mode, you get to try before you buy, and only the people that want those capabilities are paying for it. If that business model doesn’t appeal to someone, more power to them. Shop elsewhere. The great news is there are plenty of compelling choices.
Over under on how long it’s gonna take for someone to third party unlock all these features for less?
Is it easier to jail break the upgrade software or keep the odometer under 1500 kilometers or work on the Demo mode?
KTM have really screwed the pouch on this. What a bad decision! Fire everyone! Who the F wants to deal with all this? Not the idiot who doesn’t know computers at my local KTM dealership! All the software should be included OR charge more and include it. You add insult to injury by adding all of this tech and then you want us to shop for each item WHEN ALL WE WANT TO DO IS RIDE!!!
Nice vid, but I am afraid that your cone valve front suspension shown here comes stock only on the Rally. After test riding a few used 790's (they all rode different) I made a purchase on a new 2023 890 ADV R. The tech pack was $1,000.00 installed, and decided that If I can afford a new 890R, then I can afford the tech pack. There is absolutely no comparison between the used 790'rs and a new 890r. The fully adjustable upgraded suspension and the sick power band were enough for me to spend a couple more grand to step up to the 890R. I would have been fine with the 790R, had I not test rode the 890R. I'm super stoked that I stepped up instead of being the cheap bastard that I normally am, LOL. Better to have it (new bike, upgraded power, performance and suspension) and not need it-than to need it and not have it. Buy once, cry once. ☮
No to KTM!!!!! I will not buy your KTM 890R Adventure unless you make the Software Suite Standard for this motorcycle..
Owning a Norden 901 with everything except rally mode standard, the fact that KTM is upselling cruse, quick shift, MTC, etc is B.S. That should all absolutely come standard on a bike at this price point. Heck even the "rally mode" upgrade at like $200 USD (or so, I forget) is B.S. because it's software, it's literally just a download and you have it, the fact that they can offer 1000k with it all on gives up the game, it's a grift. Motorcycles aren't iPhones and if this is where things are going with bikes, you're literally going to kill motorcycling by doing it. It's a small and shrinking market already, if "apps" are the hill bike companies want to die on... get your bike now, because the future sucks.
If they didn't fix the common failure of camshaft in 2023, you should NOT buy it!
OK.. I used to work in the music industry and the number of people who used "hacked software" to make music was astounding and cost the industry millions of dollars. Just because its software doesn't mean it hasn't had a shit load or R&D behind it to make to viable so why is it valued at anything less than a tank bag or a pair of gloves. Admittedly, these prices seem a little steep but BMW, Porsche and every other car manufacturer charge for add ons so why not KTM ?. If you don't need it, don't flipping buy it. The offside of this is knowing motorbike people, we want all the bells and whistles. Its just our expectations.. So where do you go ?
Like what are they gonna do about cruise control? Have a switch there that works for 1000k then just turns into a nothing button? That's fkn stupid, why produce the product, mold a switch, make the assembly, and be like, gee, I hope people buy the continued use of the plastic thing we made and spent mad money on after that first 1000k! That's just insane! You watch what happens, dealers will tack on the what, $500 - $700 cost for the full upgrade and just knock the price of the bike up accordingly. I mean honestly, if that's what it's all about, a few hundo, just make the stuff standard and charge what you think it's worth KTM, don't play head games. That'll just piss us off.
Tesla adds downloaded upgrades all the time. Even as second owner you will get fun and or functional updates. Free. Apple defined one of my older iPhones affecting its performance, I thought my phone was broken and updated to newer one. Year later Apple settled with USA customers over fraudulent obsolescence downloads to boost upgrade sales. In KTMs MBA C-suites pursuit of profit they have lost my wallet. If that means I will eventually be riding ‘vintage’ bikes, so be it.
The Demo mode scam stopped me form buying a KTM. I bought a new Honda with DCT because I was curious about it. I had a V-Strom before that. KTM are nice bikes, but I figure if they are going to rip you off right out of the gate, they are not going get any better once they have your money too. The whole motorcycle sales and service industry has just gotten really shady lately. Recently they started shorting inventory, by intentionally holding units at the import impound to keep the showroom lean so they can justify a price squeeze. Brand name demand destruction is not even a consideration. So we'll see who wins in that strategy.
Options installed but not available unless you send KTM more money, LOL.. making one of the most expensive bikes even more expensive. Reading this help me decide on NOT buying a 2022 KTM 300. I was very high in KTM until learning this. Just put a price on it up front. 1000% disagree with this software pay option system. Let them do this and it gets much worse 5 years from now. It will be on every bike in their line up.
KTM's 'Demo Mode' is the on disc DLC for the motorcycle world.
What is next, monthly subscriptions for these features?
Better charge for the full price instead of misleading with price tags…. Other brands are more realistic about that.. I have a 790 duke 2019 and if I have to pay more just for some stuff already install I probably would change brands.
The base Adventure should come with a 19/17" wheel option...looks stupid with those big wheels...still hate those headlamps KTM!
I have recently purchased a KTM SAS .. got the tech pack thrown in! It’s all good stuff.. nothing different to any other brand, you have to pay for add ons BMW are by far the worse.
Went for a test ride on tenere and the African twin and this definitely my favourite so far with the yam close behind but this ktm has my money 🤦♂️🏁
Yes, it’s not cheap. But here in Australia a GSA is well past $37K. This bike with the tech pack is about $28K - and we know what the better bike is off road.
KTM now off my purchase list. I will never participate with any manufacturer using this methodology.
No matter how they try to sell it, you will be paying for something twice. Does anyone really think KTM would let you drive away without already having paid for everything? NFW
For me paying to enable software features is sort of fair enough, but paying to enable hardware which is already fitted is not on. Even worse would be the latest trend in car manufacturers trying to scam you out of a subscription to sometjing that isn't a service - $10 a month for your heated seats to work, $15 a month for sport mode.. Complete prefoeteering scam that would stop me buying the model completely.
What a load of crap.
The bike comes with all the options and it turns off after you bought it?!
Those ktm folks are taking the piss!
I wouldn’t buy one on principle.
I would go further and make all the comfortable features by subscription with payment every month! How it has become fashionable to do software manufacturers!
It’s ridiculous they try to charge for all these extras. My dealer activated my quickshifter+ for free and I would have been furious had I paid for it because it’s not very smooth.
It would be one thing if the bike was an open system with competitors offering a variety of software packages but in a closed system where the software is really an adjunct to the product rather than being the product I think it's is a misguided sales strategy to make people pay more for already embedded function. It's almost as bad as what BMW is doing with subscriptions.
not a fan of paying to access something that i physically paid for. maybe we should kick software out of vehicles. this annoyed me in gaming and pc use, and it is spreading. perhaps people will be activating these things without paying (voiding warranty) , like we do with other software hidden behind paywalls
Luckily the 890 adventure is just too plain ugly for me to consider (a bit shallow, i know) the pay to get what already came with the bike is just the final straw.. I certainly hope this isn't a trend that other manufacturers will adopt!
so the hardware is already on the bike, but they're locking the software behind paywall like BMW does. if the hardware is already on the bike, it means they already charge us for those hardware right? and if we refuse to pay the extra basically we paid for useless junks to be put on our bikes. how is this legal in EU?
All the ADV bike with the stupid breaks sticking out 😐.... I have no problem with the KTM headlight
Yup, I was also very interested in getting a KTM up until I saw the part about paying for the software options just to enable the hardware that was also built into the bike and factored into the sale price. So, yeah, screw you KTM and your shady and annoying biz tactics!
Screw companies selling us tech and making us pay after the fact to turn it on. It’s infuriating. Just give us the complete product.
Like for real, who's not gonna get the all option bike? like seriously? Nobody! So just sell the thing with the options at the price, screw this "lets tease them with all the things everyone is definitely going to want" BS. I want to meet the executive who thought of this just to tell them how stupid this idea is.
Paying extra to unlock sofware only features is one thing but but if I'm paying for a bike with a quick shifter it should work. If I did'nt want to pay extra for it then would'nt want the non functioning hardware on the bike in the first place.
KTM just lost all my business, forever. Bravo marketing department.
Wouldn’t buy any motorcycle I have to subscribe and pay to turn on a feature on the bike I already paid for. Thafaq!
Everything is anyways headed towards subscription model...
So the apps are basically micro transactions/DLC packs and such. Nice. Corporate pigs.
Will the standard adventure get the new body work also?
Love the bike, the paywall is bs but the fact the bike is made in China is the non starter for me.
what a fail 2:53 most people like this bike because of that vision of front wheel , that benefits about not have to "imagine" how wheel reactions to obstacles, now it is just like all the rest trail bikes, a lot of stupid falls in off road because you don't what is happening and how to correct. I hope they keep doing left design on a 790r
If your paying that much up front and then have to purchase the tech package. One of the reasons I will not consider the KTM.
That software package stuff is absolutely astounding, you have to pay for stuff the bike already comes with? terrible, really terrible, hopefully people will figure out how to hack it
This is horse apples. Too much super car tech. I want to be part of the bike. Feel the bike. I don't want some computer doing it for me.
Sounds like you got paid to read the catalogue blurb and expand on it. How's your integrity holding up??
The demo mode is like getting married. You have all the features during the engagement but after the wedding, certain features get turned off. Good luck with the resale on those bikes. That is a hard NO for me.
Honestly it sounds like your selling the bike. " Better " this and "upgraded " that. Is it really better, or an upgrade? I guess that's a bit like beauty.
So they tease you with desirable features and then they turn them off after 1118 miles. That’s theft. Pure and simple.
The first 200 people to answer your last question get answer free but after that one must tap a button and pay .99 cents to give there 2 cents on the issue ........
Why is it controversial to let us try something for free and decide if we want to pay for it. In previous years, you couldn’t try the features before buying it
Screw KTM for that one. My next bike was going to be a KTM but definitely not anymore…
Ya it's coming with all the hardware. But now you gotta pay for the software / app. Lame!